Ray Doktor on Identity, Trauma & Emotional Intelligence | Casual Babble Episode 73

Brandon Cassiano: Foreign. This is casual babble. Today on Casual Babble, we're diving into a conversation that sits at the intersection of identity, emotional intelligence, and the way our internal world shapes everything we do externally in our careers, our relationships, and our creative choices. And to help us explore the dynamic, I'm joined by somebody who has been studying and guiding this information for over 30 years. Dr. Ray Docter is a transformational psychologist, relationship mentor, and clinical expert with a long track record of helping high achieving professionals break through the internal patterns that limit their external potential. He blends psychology, somatic awareness, trauma healing, spirituality, and neuroscience into a holistic approach that pushes past surface level fixes. His work gets to the root. The identity patterns, subconscious wiring, emotional blocks, and nervous system responses that shape how we show up in life. Today we'll delve into a conversation that discusses the relationship between the internal and external, how to recognize it, track it, and how to transform it. And we're going to get to Ray's own journey from lower points in his early life and rebuilding his identity from the inside out and dedicating his life to helping others rewrite the patterns that run their lives. So thank you, Ray, for being with me today. I'm so happy to have you back on the show or on the show for the first time. Um, you've been good since our discovery call, you said.

Ray Doktor: Yeah, thank you. I was curious, that bio that you read, did you, uh, did you take that from somewhere? It was actually really good. I was like, uh, hey, this sounds actually like, not necessarily more polished, but I don't know if you. I'm like, did I send this? You know, I was like, whoa.

Brandon Cassiano: I. I pulled it. I did research through your Facebook and your website, and I. I think those are the primary sources. I peruse and threw that together. Was it at least accurate?

Ray Doktor: Yeah, like, like, how about this? How about send that, you know, to me? Okay. And how do you want me to address you as well?

Brandon Cassiano: Bc, uh. Bc, uh. I've gotten actually a lot of funny, fun nicknames over the years. I've actually been referred to as powder before, as like BC Powder. I'm like, okay, so. But bc, typically is the way to go. Or babbles. Whatever floats your boat. I have.

Ray Doktor: Okay.

Brandon Cassiano: I just wanted to know.

Ray Doktor: Sure. I want to want a clarity with that. Okay.

Brandon Cassiano: And I also want to clarify too.

Ray Doktor: Is.

Brandon Cassiano: Is. Is it pronounced? I want to ask because of the spelling, is it pronounced doctor?

Ray Doktor: It could be pronounced many different ways, but typically it's pronounced at least by me. Doctor.

Brandon Cassiano: Doctor. Okay, Gotcha. Gotcha Is that, um, What. What's the. The last name? What. Where is that from?

Ray Doktor: It's. It's. Has come from many different places. It's. I'm really unsure only because, okay, people. People from different countries will say that's what this means in our country, like an actual doctor. Um, but my father, Parents are from Germany. So.

Brandon Cassiano: Okay, yeah, I was there because my last name is actually Castellano, but the spelling of it with two S's is the Italian version. We're not Italian. It should be with 1s, which makes it the Spanish version. But I got no clue what happened. So just out of curiosity there, but, um, thank you for being here again. Um, so this show, as I mentioned before, we kind of discuss overall the relationship between creativity, entrepreneurship and culture, which then feeds back into the next wave of creativity. So you bring a really cool perspective because I speak a lot on how, and with my guests, excuse me. On how we aim to manage so many of the physical, external world factors when it comes to entrepreneurship, building a brand, networking, and establishing yourself within your industry in your. In your field. But we. I don't do enough discussion about how that all those things and how they seem, how they are organized or disorganized is an extension of what's happening internally. So that's why I really wanted to have you on the show, starting with creativity and kind of the origins, uh, that provided your initial experience. Talk a little bit about your earlier years. What kind of brought you into this world of seeing this relationship and realizing that this is something that people need to have as a focus in their life?

Ray Doktor: Well, for whatever reason, I'm going to bring this up. I remember being in class and I was always very outspoken, and I mentioned this because I wonder if people would be skeptical of what it is that I share. I remember a psychoanalyst, uh, he was pretty arrogant, and he mentioned how he did a certain process and he botched it during a session with an actual student. And then he said, well, I've been doing this for 30 years. He evidently didn't like me because I said, well, doesn't mean you've been doing it for 30 years. Right? Yeah.

Brandon Cassiano: Can I ask how old you were when this happened? Like, what, like what grade was this?

Ray Doktor: Oh, uh, this is in college. I was in early 30s.

Brandon Cassiano: For some reason I'm thinking, like, were you, like, in elementary school? Like, when, when. When would you have your first psychoanalysis going on? Wow. Okay. College. Gotcha.

Ray Doktor: Yeah. So, and I mentioned this because this, uh, is where I'm gonna Go. So, uh, first off, you're right, I don't. Like, you reached out to me and I have a master's in counseling psychology, a doctorate in clinical psychology. And so most people would probably reach out to me to like, talk about, you know, anxiety, uh, mental disorders, or to my insights about relationships and, um, um. But however, in all of this, in my career, I have been able to be financially successful and far more than my peers. So I'm just gonna put that out there. And it's important because when, when it comes to people being creative, whether it's being a musician or even entrepreneur, because you have to be creative how you want to deliver things to, uh, whatever else comes your mind of being an artist. Because most people kind of go right to actually like painting and stuff like this. What happens in that is that if you look at the typical archetypal, archetypal artists, they could be very emotional.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: Emotionally driven, that they don't want you to judge their art. Um, they can get defensive. And yet in that we all agree that there's brilliance, but that person might have like a personality friction point where like, they're so like into the art, they're not relatable. And I'm starting off with this because often people who become entrepreneurs have a lot of ideas, have a lot of emotions. And to try to put that in a container to, let's say, make money, be successful can be extremely difficult. Bottom line. And most entrepreneurs fail. Bottom line, they fail. And it's not because they don't have a good idea, service or product. It's because they might have that kind of artistic mind where they don't know how to organize their life. They might not know how to communicate really well. They might also be leading maybe with their trauma. Um, they, they might have a difficult time self regulating. And if they even have all of that and they start getting to some level of success, whatever they haven't dealt with within themselves will show up in their business, with their employees, with their people, collaborating with them in their business. And we've seen this, we've seen this in movies where there's this boss who's just complete like a hole. Yeah. Seems to be disconnected from his emotions. He, um, treats people from a very unkind place. And I think people listening to this don't want to be that type of person. So whether it's a successful CEO, CEO running a big business, or you're, you're an entrepreneur who just has an idea and some type of excitement, if you don't deal with your Prior trauma. If you don't look at your communication skills, if you have difficulty handling feedback, then that is going to show up regardless if you start making money or not. But more than often people do never. They, they'll think of a garden where they have an idea. And while they're trying to set up the foundation, to set up the irrigation and get clear with the blueprint of the landscape and making sure the sun will hit that area, many people struggle just growing a uh, literal garden. And that's the same with a business. Because you can see the analogy here. Imagine like becoming a business owner. There are many moving parts. If you have a hard time dealing with your boyfriend or girlfriend, if you still worry about what your father thinks about you, if you are running from your past, if you are reactionary when someone isn't happy with you, and this is very important if you are dealing with customers.

Brandon Cassiano: Right.

Ray Doktor: Because people can say a lot of stuff about you to destroy your business. Mhm. Then it could be really difficult. And it's why a lot of people will also even stay working for someone else because they don't know if they can handle taking on that personal responsibility. Because it is personal. Because you have a product or a service and, and but how you function as that human being, you're going to experience emotions, you're going to experience your projections, your fears, everything else. So you would hope that you can manage that. And if you can't, then you'll see the business take over you. You might see it not come to fruition. You might find yourself not wanting to do it when it's actually a great idea. Not because it's not a great idea, because more of who you haven't resolved shows up in the process of trying to be a successful entrepreneur.

Brandon Cassiano: Gotcha. Uh, and out of curiosity regarding kind of the, uh, a potential flip aspect of that. When you're talking about people who don't know how to take criticism or take insights and essentially be open to the need to at some point pivot in one way or another. Have you ever found that people may experience equal failure because of the opposite? Maybe they're too willing to take every bit of insight, every bit of feedback, and maybe they're too shifty in how they try to themselves to fit almost every possible perspective.

Ray Doktor: Absolutely. Like a people pleaser, where it's that person who wants to. Well, that would probably be an extension of a person who might have poor boundaries, feels guilty for saying no, is a people pleaser and therefore they don't know how to make executive decisions, and they're afraid to hurt people's feelings. Um, and they might invite a lot of toxicity and whatever business they have, because what shows up in their business is also an extension of their friendships and their poor boundaries with their family and whatever else.

Brandon Cassiano: Now, when regardless, uh, of the, of the direction someone may be coming from, either a people pleaser or they're just too locked into their own artistic style, like you mentioned before, and therefore they're just not able to connect with everyone else, what is, is there a common strategy and how you help them kind of come in from that perspective but find the proper midway. That way they don't overdo and go the other way or that they essentially find that balance? I guess. Yeah.

Ray Doktor: Yes. So, first off, people don't necessarily come to me with the idea that they have to heal their trauma. It's just that their relationship is not working out. Um, they feel like an imposter with their business. Um, and just listen to what I just shared. That whether there's truth in that or not, how they're relating to themselves is definitely negative. Do you understand, like, you've talked about the person who is maybe trying to take on everyone's feelings, and, um, they want to consider everyone's opinion. But the thing is that in order to be a great leader, it's important to also recognize that at the end of the day, that you're going to have to trust with utter confidence in your true authenticity, decisions that need to be made. And whether you're a parent and you see the bigger picture of the direction your children are going, whether you're a leader in your business to where you just kind of have that you're a visionary, you just have. That's your skill set that you have to have that confidence. And if you, um, have uncertainty about yourself, if you feel insecure, if you're still worried about what people think about you, you might become paralyzed and making those decisions and become stuck. And whether that stems from the idea of growing up in a household where you witnessed your father making decisions for the family and not working out, whether it's that you have been in multiple abusive relationships and you've learned not to trust your own decisions. And here now, um, you're questioning yourself whether or not you can choose for a team no matter what, you're going to have to have a relationship with yourself. Imagine people watching this or hearing this. It could sound really heavy and. But it doesn't have to be like, um, what I mean is that you asked how I might work with someone. Well, first it's asking like more the surface stuff. What is it that you want to work on? If I were to wave a wand over your. Your. You and, and you had a couple wishes, what would life look like? What would be your preferences?

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: Um, and for the most part, most people can say, I want these certain things. And then. And of course if they knew the answer for the next question, they wouldn't be seeing me. But oftentimes what they'll bring up is the wall. Well, I'll say, well, what's keeping you from moving forward? Uh, what's stopping you? And they'll share stuff like, well, that they'll, they'll share technical stuff that they're concerned about to whether or not they can actually achieve this, to whatever else that is going on. And then going a little bit deeper than that is. Listen to this, listen to this question. What is it that you have to think about yourself for that to be true? What would you have to think about yourself to think that this is true? What would you have to know, uh, about, absolutely know about the future to make this true right now? I mean, there's many questions I can ask like that where a person's gonna have to go back and go, wow, I have some limited beliefs. Wow, I have fear of the future. Wow, I have. Okay, let's work on that. Let's work on that.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah, and I want to delve more into that, um, and uh, get into identity architecture, which is a pretty big, um, cornerstone of your work. But a couple of weird pivot questions before that. As you mentioned earlier, this concept of, I believe you termed it as personality friction, if I'm correct.

Ray Doktor: Personality friction points. That's just a made ah, up word. But it's also my book where, for example, um, when I'm stressed, I also wrote this in my book about archetypes. I can move into the opposite of say, the kinghood. And that is where I get critical. I might sound or feel like a tyrant. Not that I'm a mean person, but I can like, yeah, I can kind of lose connection for a moment, maybe from my heart. And I wouldn't say that's who I am, but in like, when I'm at my worst, that personality friction point could show up. And it's a way for others also to understand. We all have something. We all have something. And once you become aware of it, you can m. Soften it. You can, you can even heal it. You know, even, for example, it's funny, like I'm a. This whole like, my forehead. If you're listening to this, I'm squinting my forehead, and I definitely had these, like, wrinkles right here.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: And I've talking to. I've spoken to my partner about this because she knows when I'm stressed because my head does this. It squints. And now I have wrinkles. And I was talking to my son about that. I'm like, I wonder if I can get rid of this. And my partner just joked. She said, yeah, if you probably got Botox, because now you just have muscle memory.

Brandon Cassiano: Right.

Ray Doktor: And I started thinking about, like, all the times I was squinting because I was taking things way too seriously or, um, being critical. And that looks like it's like. So now I know also, like, if I feel pressure here and my forehead, uh, now I have kind of like this body awareness that. All right, I need to get back to my heart. Yeah, I need to get back to my heart. And usually when we have personality friction points, we're not in our heart.

Brandon Cassiano: All right, I like that. Um, other pivot question for prior. Prior to identity architecture is recent concept I was introduced to through an interview was intrapreneurship. It's not a new term by any means, but I had never heard it before, and I found the concept interesting relating to entrepreneurship, where an intrapreneurship you find that the best way for you to thrive is not by trying to create something new, but finding something established and then innovating from within that structure. And from this topic, I'm curious about your. Your thoughts on whether or not someone choosing to shift from one or the other or, uh, specifically from entrepreneurship to intrapreneurship. Would you call that any form of, um, not rigidness, if that makes sense. So, um, I've got a new colleague and I'm actually working with her through an accelerator. Um, in her interview, she talked about how she initially had her own podcast and her own company that she and a friend had launched. And it was going for a little while and. And eventually she didn't lose passion for it. She still has passion for it and the. And the things that she discussed through it, but she found that the, I, uh, guess the multifaceted approach or management aspect of entrepreneurship wasn't quite fitting her. So she found a position within the group that I've now met her through, and she's found that innovating from a structure she was provided and thriving from within that has been much. Has spoken much better to who she is. And she's. She's able to get that creative gratification entrepreneurship would have provided her. But from this intrapreneurship, um, likewise.

Ray Doktor: I got it. I got a response to that. So, so yeah, so first off, um, I mentioned already that if you have difficulty managing your emotions, then it could be difficult to manage certain decisions. You have to make other people's livelihood to a lot of moving parts to make life work. That could be one reason to move into the space for the woman you just mentioned. Number two, uh, you can discover through your process of whatever you're creating that you have strengths and weaknesses. And if a weakness or we don't have to label that it might be. It's something you're just not excited about is a big part of the job function. By being able to either outsource that or to um, move m into an organization where you don't have to exercise that might feel like some relief and therefore there's more excitement around what it is that you really like to do. But it's going to be a case by case situation. Um, like for example, I am not a web guy or tech guy. So my partner, she, I wouldn't say is like a tech person, but she definitely can tackle some of those things a lot better. I can lose. Not say lose, but like, you know, talking to someone at Apple is not very exciting for me. Probably not for a lot of people.

Brandon Cassiano: Sure.

Ray Doktor: Yeah. And if my job description were require me to have technical questions, it would just totally kill my creativity. It just doesn't. And I, I've come to accept that. So there's that and then the last thing would be just, there's just changes in life that happen. Uh, for an example, imagine I'm working in the company and I've built something and I used to give a lot more of myself to my customers. Like I like to talk to them and everything else. Then I start dating a new person and I'm noticing that it's requiring me to have more conversations with her. And then time I might not discover until later on I might feel my body. Like I just don't want to talk to more people. I just, I'm kind of over this. It could be that my energy is being given to someone I'm in an intimate relationship with. So it might just. I'm not even aware of that. But when people can kind of become aware of what they like and, and don't like, not from a place of fear, when people can recognize what parts of their business excites them and fills them up and then try to do that as much as possible maximize that things are a lot smoother because you're going to be in that higher vibration. And what comes with that, if, with people, if they believe in law of attraction and dispositivity, is that if you're in an open space of creating things, like attracts onto like, and if, uh, you're excited, you will bring on customers, situations, everything that will match that to, you know, to the expansion of what it's supposed to be. That's why a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this will say when they initially started their business, they met one person who referred another friend. Like, there's always this experience, not, uh, always, but a lot, where people have an idea and they start talking to the same people or people are interested in that, like in a grocery line or where they start making contacts. It just seems like everything's supporting this dream, this idea. But in time, if, like, say you're not dealing with your emotions or ultimately it becomes more about how much money you're making, then you start seeing your own energy start to, like, drift.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: You know, um, you start attracting more challenging clients. You, you know, it's this. It creates this kind of like, you know, you know, chain reaction. So that's again, another reason why that we must stay open. And if we're not going to be positive, being neutral and curious is better than negativity.

Brandon Cassiano: Gotcha. All right, Cool. And so moving into identity, um, architecture. So you've already brought in talking about hidden beliefs, um, and internal programming. So talk a little bit more about what identity culture means within your coaching and your approach to people. How our core beliefs affect. You've mentioned our relationships, but how just kind of expand on a bit more and how you address that in your coaching.

Ray Doktor: Well, as you're saying this, so when you've shared me with me, what you might ask me, I threw something into my GBT that has all my writing and other things. And while I was driving to the, to the gym, I asked my GBT to share some stuff. And I'll read it because it, uh, goes right to some of what you're asking. And it's, um. Most people are living a life shaped by influences they never consented to. M. Your identity was built before you have ever had the ability to question it. Beliefs are inherited, but transformation is chosen. You're not broken, you're programmed. So I'm going to start with that. Uh, so when I talk about identity. Yeah, I'm talking about how people will fall into roles, programs m. Passed on by their culture and the collective narrative that was never theirs. And when we're operating from a place of a program that's not truly who we are, there's always going to be some certain level of resistance.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: I was fortunate enough to have my nervous breakdown when I was 21m. And it's interesting because I saw Patch Adams, which had Robin Williams in the movie. And also I saw Good Will Hunting, which was the two movies that catapulted me over like some wall or to where it inspired me to, you know, study psychology and go down this path. I remember working a corporate job and feeling this emptiness. I couldn't understand why I wasn't excited about it. And I ended up having like, kind of like a mild nervous breakdown. And it was because I was not being myself. And it got to me. And thank God that happened when I was 21 years old.

Brandon Cassiano: Mhm.

Ray Doktor: And it was because I could not operate like other people. I could not think about things. And there are many people on this planet who are being a certain way and they don't even know it.

Brandon Cassiano: Mhm.

Ray Doktor: So when I talk about identity, I'm talking about the big question, who are you? Like, you're not your. If you're not your emotions, you're m. Not what your parents think about you, you're not what you. Your children feel about you, you're not your. You're not what your influence, influencers think you are to. You're not even. You're not even what your life philosophies are. You're not even your beliefs. Then who are you?

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: And most people cannot answer that. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Brandon Cassiano: I was gonna say I love how you, you worded that in the beginning. Um, regarding about if I get it wrong, programming is not chosen, but transformation is. I think I worded a little bit wrong.

Ray Doktor: Yes, yes, yes.

Brandon Cassiano: But, um, it's the second you mentioned that you brought to mind for me something I've contemplated a lot over the years. This is probably a little bit too meta right now, but for, for me, I've always had this weird dichotomy in my head and I don't know if this would be a bit different because this isn't how I function versus how I've chosen to not function throughout my entire life. So when it comes to, um, racial diversity and all the different moments we have in our culture in America regarding racism and all those things, I've always grown up noticing I've got this weird dichotomy of I come from a very mixed family. We've got so many clothes in our family. I come from a partial Hispanic background and the skin tones are the whole range pretty much. And. But at the same time I also know that I could clock it by third grade. I've somehow learned a lot of racist things. And like you said, that programming education is something I've never wanted, I never asked for it, but I still learned it. Whether and it was from other kids, how clearly

Ray Doktor: you experienced racism or you were presented the idea about it.

Brandon Cassiano: Presented the idea. I myself never experienced it because I pass. I don't look half Hispanic, but I have cousins and aunts and uncles who are very dark skinned and who have. But I still somehow received this education about how to act that way. And so I've grown up with this dichotomy of how do I have this kind of family, how do I have these kind of relatives, this kind of, you know, extension of me, but still know how to do these things that are very contrary, very against who they are. And so, uh, when you mentioned that programming versus that transformation, that brought that to mind because it's, I've had to always take that education, those, those uh, mannerisms that I somehow learned through socializing that I never, I would have never asked for, push them aside so I can function as how I perceive a better human being would function in this kind of melting pot society that we have. Um.

Ray Doktor: Was your family racist? Is that what you're kind of saying they have? No.

Brandon Cassiano: Well, that's the thing. And well, granted there are, there are moments where I see certain things in certain people and um, I'm like, okay, that's not the best thing to say nowadays or maybe ever. And it's been. Yeah, okay, yeah, so it's been through fairly sometimes, but I don't recall, I don't, I don't remember getting those lessons from them per se. And I might have. I just don't remember that. But somehow I did. Uh, but somehow I did acquire that from. At a young age. And so living with that kind of quasi impulse almost, which I hate, um, but still choosing to live every day as someone who sees color and loves color and celebrates color, it's just, it's been a weird existence almost. And I didn't, I didn't know if that's like a common thing for people or if that's just a weird BC thing that he experiences. But your, your mention of that is, is what brought that to mind for me. So, um, but your, your thoughts on that though? I'm curious. Hearing that from me.

Ray Doktor: Well, first off, I, for Myself, I don't even see color. I, I just see souls. You know, I have a higher, like, belief system in that. Not where I'm better. But as an example, I've had two near death experiences. And they for sure have influenced me about God and recognizing that we are in spirit right now and that if anything, the physical body is the dream and that, you know, we take on beliefs that are formed by humanity and humanity right now is really valuable. There's a lot of judgment, there's a lot of separation. It is why a lot of things are falling apart there. You know, there has been scandals going on forever and everything's breaking apart. So we can see things not from just one side, um, but from multiple perspectives so we can create a third, a new world and something else. And so how this relates to what you just shared with me is that for whatever reason you were exposed to human beings that maybe would say things to human beings that felt perpetrated or judged. And in that you are able to see both sides and rise above that from a place of more compassion and to be able to talk about it without being polarized. And that's, that's a gift in this moment. And a lot of people are very polarized and don't think about things that way. And they're very tribal about their way of thinking. M. And it, that becomes their identity as well. That's another identity, meaning that like, if you disagree with me or if you call, um, me out, or if, um, you don't see things exactly the way that I do, then you are against me. You know, rather than that, why would other human beings even have these types of thoughts and feelings? Why would they have different values than me? Or why is it that this person, I thought was a really good person, then I learned that they voted for Trump. You know, I'm just throwing this out there, like that's, this is how people think. Like, oh my God, how could you even, you know, like, so it's being able to kind of sit and listen and understand. Understand doesn't mean you have to agree with it. It's being able to understand. And so, you know, your early upbringing helped you, maybe helped you come to a place of understanding multiple perspectives. And that's a gift. And there's another thing that most humans don't realize, and that is there's a lot happening any unseen. And this is, you know, things I've learned. You don't. People have to agree with me that we don't know why that one person is there in Our life. We don't know what sacred contracts have been set forth beforehand to where. How they're creating contrast for, for myself and for humanity to grow and expand.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah. And how do you, how uh, do you or how would you help someone process this idea of an, of an unwanted early programming? Like they've grown to the point where they've realized they've received this education that they know now based on their current um, level of development personally they would have never asked for, but they have it and they can tell. It can sometimes feel almost impulsive or quasi impulsive or maybe sometimes it's, it's kind of whispering to certain thoughts or certain trails of thinking. How do you. Or how would you help them come to terms with that in the sense of again programming being um, automatic and transformation being chosen?

Ray Doktor: Well, so this is going to trigger a bunch of people who actually do not even understand what I'm about to say to their. In the muck of it. And, and that is a person would only think that way if they haven't integrated with love and compassion all that they are. So people will disown parts themselves whether they are perpetrated such as being raped to had a parent be really neglectful. Those typical hard stories that I know thousands of people including myself who have experienced those stories and became the hero of my story. They haven't reached that place of, of understanding that there are aspects of them that have chosen themes to move forward from and grow. And again, if people don't believe in God, if people are still very much in that dark place, they'll be triggered. Now this is interesting. It's not to prove myself right in a sense I would want someone to hurt. And it's this. A person is either just watching this video or listening to me. And they might already feel like they're angry towards me. M. And yet that energy within their body is being created by an interpretation. They don't know who I really am. They just hear a voice and I'm um, intentionally trying to help and heal.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: But because within them something dormant or, or something hasn't been understood is being triggered because they feel this negativity. Of course it's gotta be me or something I'm saying. And this is why I say this and this is why people who I think ah, are really good coaches or therapists will say the healing begins when you start taking personal responsibility for how you feel. Because while there can be a meme you think triggers you or something someone says or you know, different or how another person shows up or doesn't show up, you are still.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: Interpreting your own feelings in your own consciousness from a perspective of something is not making you feel good. And um, you know, you, no matter what you do about that person, uh, or how, how much you think you're right, that you are experiencing yourself, that other person or situation is not even having the same reaction, you are.

Brandon Cassiano: Right.

Ray Doktor: But that's what I'm coming from.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah. Yeah. And so fortunately though, because healing is a process and it takes more time, it's unfortunately a lot quicker to say, oh, this person by sheer effort of saying something makes me feel bad. It's a lot easier and quicker to just hate you then, or hate someone who provides that same insight that you do. As opposed to, as you said, recognizing and then putting in the work to make the healing happen.

Ray Doktor: Yeah, there's, there's like, there's going to be someone who's going to take this out of context because I didn't say Trump was an asshole and they'll say he probably voted. No one knows who I voted for. And it's not even a. This is not even us talking about politics.

Brandon Cassiano: Right.

Ray Doktor: It's making a point of like how people feel safer to put someone in a box m as separate from them and to give reason why they feel this way. Or rather than that, when I ever, whenever I hear someone say Trump's name or something different than me, I feel tension in my body. M. The best way that you, the, the best healing that could begin is, okay, you feel that. Where is that coming in your body? What does this say, maybe about yourself? What would you rather fear? And if this person kept like talking about politics or what I said, I would say, remember, you don't really know me. What are you feeling? What is your body saying, you know, come down to? And uh, I feel a lot of uncertainty with our politics. I feel a lot of uncertainty about my life. I feel a lot of fear. Okay, let's work with the fear because. Because that would be the most true for that human being. I'm fearing a lot of fear and these polarizing times. Okay, let's, let's move. What do we need to do to get to a place of certainty and confidence? Mhm.

Brandon Cassiano: And equally to what you said too. Someone will may watch this and listen to this and be like. And even get upset with me because I didn't take the time to be like, who'd you vote for? Like, they'll look at me, be like, well, if he didn't confirm, if he didn't take the time to put his guest in a box and confirm his own box at the same time. I might get heat for that too. Um, so, yeah, pointing to what you said, absolutely objective.

Ray Doktor: See, what I'm trying to speak to is this, that you talked about racism and you spoke about it from a place of. In, uh, the middle ground. I'm talking about something from the middle ground. And that's what it's like to not be polarized. I want to be in my heart. And if I'm going to be a good, effective coach, I need to hear, uh, why a person might think and feel a certain way without judgment. I need to be neutral.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Ray Doktor: No, no, like, yeah, if I were coaching you and you definitely can sense I'm leaning towards a certain direction or you feel judged, or I have strong opinions about certain things and those are topics into which topics in which you want to discuss. You would not feel comfortable with me. You wouldn't feel like you could be yourself with me.

Brandon Cassiano: Fair enough? Yeah, yeah, it was very fair. Now, moving into. To healing, and we only got some, uh, like ten more minutes here. So. Moving into healing, we talked about how. You talked about how people can be very tribal in their beliefs and how, um, and again, kind of going back into redirecting and how all these things affect or our reflection or have a relationship with the external environment. And someone begins that journey of healing, of reflection and transformation which we have to choose. And they find that doing so even though they know the initial and the end game point is to bring themselves to a better place, but it causes any level of dissonance or disjunction with elements of their external environment that they've been more or less comfortable with. Um, and they potentially take that as a sign of, oh, this is not the best action. This is not a good thing to do. How do you. Or how would you intercept that and say, this is gonna hurt, this is gonna suck. You know, healing is not a simple thing. Or how. What's your, what's your approach to that? If that makes sense?

Ray Doktor: Well, first off, the, um. And I'm not trying to plug my book. I'm sharing this because I wrote it specifically.

Brandon Cassiano: Plug your book. I want you to plug yourself here.

Ray Doktor: Okay. Well, the point is that I know some people like get on these interviews and it's like all they do is talk about their book because they want people to buy it. Uh, if anything, I'm with the promotions behind it. Whatever else. I'm pretty negative with the book. Even though I've sold a bunch. But it's.

Brandon Cassiano: It.

Ray Doktor: The. The book was written for new prospective clients who might want to work me to. Clients are going through the process, and these are the paths to healing. I know it's. I'm not answering your question directly, but I think this will help people understand the container that is involved. So, number one, it's that you are no longer in denial with your problem. Like, it's like, okay, I've been married four times and every woman I've been with says, I'm controlling, or I have anger issues, and you finally go, okay. Or it's like, after your third dui, it's like, hey, maybe I do have a drinking problem. So if the first step is like, you're just no longer in denial, okay, I. I have anger issues or I communicate in a way that hurts people's feelings, number one. Number two is that typically most people start to talk to their friends or, ah, you know, people that, like, they might think are wiser and so forth. And that is where, you know, they might commiserate with this person, agree that they've seen this in this. Within this person, and that, uh, you know, it's something to work on. And some people, that's where they. They stop right there. Third step might be, oh, I need someone who's going to be objective. And that is where someone who's not going to be biased, but someone who's also going to share their opinions based off evidence or their experience there. We might travel down a little bit of the influences of why a person has come to believe that about him or herself.

Brandon Cassiano: Okay.

Ray Doktor: For example, it might be a client who just says, you know, I just don't trust guys. But there's got to be a reason. You find out that, well, my father was an alcoholic, cheated on, uh, my mother. M. And my mother just went from men to men. And those guys are creeps also. Okay, but that's someone else. I mean, the. The actual client says she doesn't trust men, but yet that story I just described was how her mother chose men, not her. Maybe. Okay, right. Let's just say. But there's got to be a deeper belief of what's going to drive that belief. Okay. A lot of people get stuck in therapy with that third part where it's like, I'm this way because my father cheated. I. Everyone has a story, and that story becomes like, the totality of that person. That becomes an identity structure. Like, you know, don't go past this. Watch out for my issues. Uh, and so people will wear that even as a batch. You know, you don't want to. You don't. You don't want to approach my trauma. You know, people don't. This is probably triggering people right now that I'm sharing this, but that itself

Brandon Cassiano: is an idea already. Then it's. It's this moment right here.

Ray Doktor: Yeah, yeah, that. So the fourth step is where I take clients is where it's. If you were to choose the wrong partner, uh, what could you do? I can get out. Do you trust it? I'm not sure. So are you. Do you have fear about the type of man you choose or being assertive and saying no? You might discover that this person has developed a lot of trust issues, meaning that a lot of our trauma, or let's say a lot of the things are unhealed, is after the event happened, that we have stories with ourselves about how life is, how men are, how women are, how this and that. And we keep saying that to ourselves for years, for decades. And rather than the recognizing that for me to have fear, uh, I would still have to have some inner dialogue that is sabotaging me still today. And so if a person has trust issues with him or herself, whether it's business or a new partnership, they might attract someone who's not trustworthy to. They might feel uncomfortable to speak their mind because they're afraid. But it's finding out that belief that's holding that true for that person, you know, and sometimes there's secondary gains for staying stuck because people don't want to take the responsibility to grow and move past that, because part of that might be this. I've been living my life as a single person for 20 years off of someone else's lie or life. I've been living this way because I. I've created in my mind there are untrusting people when all along it was me not trusting myself. And people will end up having, like, a dark night of the soul, because that's when you realize that it's been you talking to yourself in a negative way that's kept you from living a life that you really deserve and want. So hopefully that answered your question.

Brandon Cassiano: Listeners trigger time to d. Trigger a little bit. Well, not necessarily, but in closing out, what would you list? Are some, you know, feeding you. We went through the creativity, the birth of your creativity, went into your entrepreneurship, your coaching, and all the things that you, um, address through that work and now feeding into culture, um, and feeding back into the audience here who are hopefully not too triggered. Um, but if they are, they are. But what are some um, actionable kind of day to day practices you'd suggest to people to try to reflect uh, and become a bit more aware of their current circumstances and uh, take note of maybe what some potential changes are for them in the near future.

Ray Doktor: So I'm going to make some, share some statements here. But you know, it's funny, you did ask the question in the beginning and I shared a story but it didn't really answer your question directly. And because it talked about my journey getting here. I'll just. But I wanted to share this because I talked about the artists.

Brandon Cassiano: Yeah.

Ray Doktor: That yes, I am a musician and I wanted to be a rock star and that was like my identity. And I went through some health issues to couple DUIs. I mean I kind of spoke about myself a little bit, but life and challenges led me to what I do now. And it's why I'm very transparent with how I communicate because it's also what has helped me, it's healed me. And I have been an entrepreneur for over, for 30 years and I've had different businesses and I've seen my failures. And so what I share here is from experience, it's from actually seeing the success of like practicing when I preach, but also seeing like the uh, the. I don't want to call it failures because I grew from it. But I definitely, definitely try to manipulate life. Not people, but life. I tr. Like some people going to hear this and go, oh, this is just really heady. This is all. And that's going to be a lot of people. They, because they have no connection to spirituality that when I ask who are you really? They, they don't, they can't really answer what that means for them so they'll just try to push through it. You know like I claimed bankruptcy when I was 26 because I was living too big and had all my debt paid off. Two years later I end up in debt again because I had a horrible relationship with money. And so once I healed that then that's when I was able to save money and so forth. That's an example where you know, you know, you have to do the inner work. So the answer your question now is these little statements I hope can really. People can really consider this and feel it in their heart and body. Yeah, we're soul having a human experience, but we live like humans chasing a spiritual high. Your soul cares about your evolution, your identity cares about approval. The spiritual curriculum doesn't care about your goals, it cares about your growth. Purpose is soul led, achievement is ego led. Both matter, but one must leave. You know, and the last one, because you talk about triggers, is your triggers are just an imitation for your soul to catch up with your growth. You know, I hope that encompasses kind of all of it because if people really want to succeed, I would look at your relationship with yourself, with your emotions, your belief systems to like your faith. And I'm not. I was raised Jewish and Buddhist, so I'm not a Christian. No. Um, but really crystallize that as a human being and you'll see the extension of that in a positive way in your relationships and your career. Mhm.

Brandon Cassiano: That's a beautiful idea. I love that. Um, so I want to thank you for being on the show. You've brought a lot of incredible perspectives to the conversation today, which means you'll have to be back very soon because there's a lot to expand on from here. Um, but again, thank you for being on the show.