Kevin Palmieri on Mental Health, Podcasting & Entrepreneurial Growth | Casual Babble Episode #70

Speaker A: One. There we go. All right, Kevin, welcome. Welcome back.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me, buddy.

Speaker A: Thank you for, for swinging back around. I know you had a, uh, breakthrough session, which I did not fault you for last time, so no worries there.

Speaker B: Appreciate it.

Speaker A: You said potential client, though. Did they convert? Like, are they a full client now? What's. What's going on there?

Speaker B: So I actually. So one of our potential clients connected me with another potential client. Uh, I had a call with potential client one. They became a client, and potential client two was right after them, and they also became a client. So we got two clients that day. Yes.

Speaker A: All right. Conversion goals.

Speaker B: Yes, that is the goal. That is the goal.

Speaker A: And I need that stuff explained to me tomorrow because I think I got my habits and metrics back and forth, but we'll not talk too much about that here. I don't know if that's like non disclosure stuff. We'll not go there.

Speaker B: No, we can talk about whatever you want, buddy.

Speaker A: Well, first one, talk about you. That's why you're here, because you're awesome. And I loved the convo we had. Gosh, a month ago, I think it was something like that. Um, but. And I want to make sure I'm not going to kill this last name of yours, man. Palmieri.

Speaker B: Perfect crush. 10 out of 10.

Speaker A: All right, so this is Kevin Palmieri, everyone. He is the. I haven't done a cfo. But you're cso, correct?

Speaker B: I used to be cfo, and then I was fired from my position that I was never. I never deserved it in the first place. I was just given to me and. Yeah, so now I'm the cso.

Speaker A: Yes, but now you're the CSO of Next Level University, which, from what I've gotten to experience so far talking to you and Alan and Amy, is just this unbelievably well oiled machine in podcasting, business development, goal setting. You have a really cool story, though. I really wanted to. And of course, always being very respectful of the, uh, the weight that someone's story has. Story is very interesting and unique to me because it's really about redefining what success means to you. You had a point where you were successful, but you realized that there were other elements that were kind of missing. So if you would do me the honor of kind of reiterating your story to the folks who will be enjoying this episode.

Speaker B: Yeah. So for context, I always start. I was raised by my mom and my grandmother didn't know my dad. I didn't meet my dad until I was 27, with the understanding that he was my dad. So he left when I was really young and that just kind of became, quote, unquote, normal. We were not doing well with money, so I was definitely raised lower middle class. Again, from the outside looking in, you probably wouldn't have known it, but I remember conversations behind the scenes about how we didn't know how we were going to pay rent. So that was kind of a, kind of a thing that I heard more often than I wished. Outside of that, though, like, I would ride my bike, I'd play baseball, I'd play tag with my friends. My childhood, quote, unquote, was normal. Outside of that. Things got weird for me in high school because I decided pretty early on that I didn't want to go to college. Just, it didn't make sense. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And the last thing I wanted to do was pay money to help somebody, uh, for somebody to help me figure out what it was I was gonna do. It just didn't make any sense to me.

Speaker A: Get that?

Speaker B: Uh, right. So all of my friends went away to college and I got a job at the local gas station. And that was my first, quote, unquote, big boy job. So all my friends were away meeting people and partying and doing their thing. And I was waking up at 5 o', clock, going to the gas station and working my 40 hours. So that was my, my first, my first big boy job. And that's when the identity started to form for me. I didn't go to college and here I am doing this townie job and I'm just not feeling very good about myself. Left that job. I got a job at a hospital cleaning bathrooms and floors overnight. Same thing that kind of built in the identity of we take what we can get. We're probably not going to get very much after that. I was a personal trainer, then I was a truck driver, then I was a forklift operator and I was in construction and tiling and all. Just a bunch of different stuff. But eventually, B.C. this is where things kind of, kind of crossed. Yeah, I got a job in an industry called weatherization. So it was our job to go into schools and make them more energy efficient. That's what we did. And since I worked on state and government contracts, I was making anywhere from 60 to $120 an hour. And for me it was like, solid. Yeah, solid. I'm gonna be successful now. I'm gonna make really good money and I'm not gonna have to worry about it. This is everything that I did to lead up to this point, as reckless as it seemed worked out, uh, it worked. We're here. We are.

Speaker A: Here we are.

Speaker B: So at this point in my life, I'm in my early to mid 20s, I have a beautiful girlfriend who's a model, I have a sports car. I am making good money, I have great friends. I am in the best shape I'll ever be because I'm preparing for a bodybuilding show, all the things. And the following year, I ended up sitting on the edge of a bed contemplating suicide. Because the quote unquote success that it looked like I was living was not that I didn't know who I was, I didn't know what I wanted, I didn't know what my future was gonna be. It just, I fell into the trap that I think a lot of us fall into, is thinking that external results are gonna fix internal voids. And I didn't want anybody to know how bad I was suffering. And I think that's kind of a, another common thing. So if anything, my, my story is a beware, not all is what it seems type of story.

Speaker A: Now if, to clarify, when you kind of map it back, is it. Would you say that it's the lack or lapse of ensuring that each next step had a, uh, correlation with who you are that brought you to that point, or would you call it something else?

Speaker B: I think it was a lack of self awareness. I think that was the first thing and I think it was just a misunderstanding that. So the way I always explain it is when I was young, when I was a little boy, I was smaller than everybody else. I still, I'm 5 foot 5 on a good day. Like, I'm not a, uh, I'm not a tall man. This is it for me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In my mind, if I could get all the things I didn't have when I was a little boy, as a man, I would be successful. So when I was young, I felt overlooked by women. I'll just find a very attractive partner. Got that? M. That didn't fix it. Okay. When I was young, I felt smaller than everybody else. I'll just go compete in bodybuilding and get really strong and really lean and cool. I can get photo shoots and people will think I'm. I'm really confident. Did that, that didn't work. I always say it was the last key to the door and I thought the money key was going to open the door. So I think it was just a misunderstanding of who I was as a human. What motivated me As a human and what I was actually dealing with from a mental health perspective, it wasn't. When I make certain amount of money, my anxiety and depression is going to go away. Now, looking back, it makes sense, but, yeah, I think it was a lack of awareness and just a lack of understanding that you can't outrun your trauma and external things do not fix internal voids. I just didn't. I didn't get that at the time. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so when you got to that point and you. Thankfully, you did not. You didn't take the plunge there. So talk about the shift that occurred after that. What brought you to the venture? I forget if you happened upon podcasting or if there was something you sought out.

Speaker B: So when I had my suicidal ideation, I had already had the podcast. So I was interviewed on my. My business partner's podcast. He wasn't my business partner at the time. We got to the end of this hour and a half interview, and it felt like it went by in five minutes. And I said to one of my friends who was there, I said, imagine if you could do that for a living. That would be everything. Yeah, that would be it. And then I was off to the races. I went and bought microphone, I bought a mixer, I learned how to audio edit. I was. I was off to the races. So I think one of the reasons I fell so deeply into depression is because I had found something I loved. I had found something I had felt purpose. I had found something that was greater than me, and I didn't feel like I could give it 100% effort. Okay, yeah, that was a really big piece. Is this job that I have that pays the bills that I thought was going to make me happy, I now realize is just a means to an end financially.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: This podcasting thing, I love this, but my job is requiring a ton of travel, and it's directly combating this. This passion I found. So I had the podcast and I was in love with it. What really shifted is I was in a hotel room having these suicidal thoughts. And I reached out to my business partner, Alan, and I said, hey, man, I'm really struggling. I'm having these thoughts, I'm having these feelings. I don't know what to do. I'm so stuck. I don't. I have no clue what to do. And he said many things, but he said, over the last couple years, your awareness has changed a ton of mhm. But your environments have remained the same. You're, you know so much more about yourself than you used to, but everything around you is exactly the same. You need to change that. You need to change your environment. So what shifted for me was I realized that this job that I thought had to be the end all, be all didn't. And I ended up leaving that job three or four months later. And BC when I left my job, my depression went away. It, uh, was night and day, night and day. My anxiety got drastically worse, Happy to talk about that. But my depression essentially went away overnight. And then I became a full time, quote, unquote, I wouldn't say entrepreneur because I don't think I was yet, but a full time dream chaser trying to figure, trying to figure this out. And it was, okay, I want to be a full time podcaster. How do we make that happen? So it wasn't necessarily this, like, long, drawn out process of I was depressed and I couldn't get out of bed. No. After that, that conversation with Alan, after the new enlightening moment that this doesn't have to be it, I went on working for, um, a couple more months and then I left my job and, and then we were off to the races trying to do this podcasting thing.

Speaker A: Awesome. Now, before we move on to post event there, I really want to kind of touch on something really important there, which is that you as men, there's a lot of weird stuff put on us that regards our emotional spectrum, how we are, should feel, how we're allowed to feel. You had someone, firstly, you made the choice to, to delve onto someone, your emotional baggage, you make, you made that choice, but also you had someone to do that with. Talk about the importance of needing to be willing to do that and to have someone in your corner with whom you can do that with.

Speaker B: A lot of people, when I tell my story, they say, oh, my goodness, it was so courageous of you to be vulnerable and you really, really trusted somebody else to be there for you. And this is what I always say. You don't wait until the storm starts to make the umbrella. You make the umbrella long before the storm starts. So honestly, Alan and I had such a deep relationship at that point where Alan's been mentoring me since the day we reconnected. So there was no fear to reach out to him. There was no uncertainty. It didn't require that much vulnerability. I figured he would have a better answer than I did. So what I think is, when life is going really well, if you're, whether you're watching this or listening to this, if life is going really well for you, now is the time to be vulnerable. Now is the time to build those deep, meaningful relationships. Because when life is challenging, it's way harder to do that. It's just way harder to do that. Now, if you are struggling right now, then that's a different story because obviously the storm is here and maybe we don't have the umbrella yet. You don't necessarily have to be as vulnerable as I was. You don't necessarily have to share to that level of depth with somebody that you know. There's a bunch of places you can go, there's a bunch of places you can call. So I think courage looks different for everybody. I think vulnerability looks different for everybody. And if you can proactively build it in there, I think that's the best way to do it. If not, which, if that's the case, then that advice is, uh, essentially garbage to you. Right now is the time to go through the list of people that you feel the safest around. And if nobody jumps to the top of the line, there are many hotlines, there are many places that you can go that is vulnerable, that is courageous. I, I don't think you have to go 100% and be the most vulnerable, most courageous version of yourself. And yeah, to your point, as men, I think a lot of us, whether we're taught it, whether we adopt it, we think, well, I'll just put my head down and grind it out. And one, nobody cares. That's not true. Two, nobody knows what it's like. That's not true either. And three, nobody wants to hear it. And I don't think any of those, those three are true. And if you have really good people in your life, they do want to hear, and they do want to support you and they do want to help. And if you don't feel like you have those people in your life yet, now is a really good time to start building what those relationships would look like.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So we have you now, which is great. I've, I've enjoyed having you, uh, as part of my network. So thank you for being here. Now moving into. You're back in the. You're back in the bin with, with Alan, Uh, and this thing begins to build. Now looking at you guys, you both kind of fit together like a couple puzzle pieces. You guys have kind of distinct functions within Next Level University. Now, did that way in which you fit, was that kind of automatic, or did you have to spend some time feeling each other out to figure out what those specifications were?

Speaker B: I think it was both. If, uh, I can say it was both, I think it was Both in the beginning, I would say Alan was the brains in many ways, and I was kind of the brawn in terms of if something had to get done and it was going to take 10 hours to do it, I would just say, all right, I'll do that. You go do whatever else has to get done. We, we realized pretty early on that I was the creative and he was the engineer. I mean, he has a master's and in business and he has an engineering degree, so it makes sense. So I think it was. It was that. And then in the beginning I just said, what do I do? Like, just tell me what to do and I'll try to learn how to. How to do it. So I think it was a mix. I think it was one. I get you can't really say humility. You can't say you're humble and be humble, I guess. But I think it was humility for both of us to say, look, both of us will do whatever. I'll do audio editing or I'll do this or whatever. Who's the best person for that job? That's part one. Part two, I was more creative, quote, unquote. So it made sense for me to name the episodes. It made sense for me to do the thumbnails. It made sense for me to do that type of stuff. It made sense for Alan to build the systems behind the scenes. And then just in time, we realized that, like, I tend to be more comfortable out, uh, around people like this and traveling and whatever it is. Alan likes to be behind closed doors in a dark room. He really likes that. So over time, we really figured out what each other's strengths were. But, ah, I think at the end of the day, I don't care whose name is on what. I don't care who gets credit for what. We're trying to grow this thing because it's way bigger than us. It's not about me. It's not about Alan. It's about the fact that we're. We're trying to bring, uh, a really large change to the world. And the only way to do it is to do it together. And whoever's better at the thing can do the thing, but no matter what, the thing has to get done.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Now, are there ever any points where the two of you try to, like, shift that between the two of you, where you try to be a bit more behind the scenes and Alan tries to pull himself about a bit more towards the front? Or do you just like, it is how it is, and that's how it's going to always be.

Speaker B: I think in the beginning, we did.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In the. Cause in the beginning, we were doing a ton of social media, and we were on Snapchat. We were just. We were doing a ton of stuff, and we were traveling all over the place for interviews. Then we both went like, okay, we're not gonna do any of that. We're gonna get a studio. We're just gonna record together. Everything's gonna be virtual. And then, yeah, from there, I'm going. Next month, I'm, uh, going to New Jersey to help one of our clients set their studio up. In December, I'm going to Toronto for a mastermind. Like, I'm going to be doing a fair bit of traveling. Alan does not like traveling at all. He hates it. And honestly, he's busier than I am, and he's doing things differently than I am. So it's a, uh, very important understanding that at the end of the day. And again, this is a very. People don't like when I say this, but this is just true. At the end of the day, Alan's time is more valuable than mine from a productivity potential standpoint. He's the CEO for a reason. Then it's me. There are some things that I will do because it just makes more sense for me to invest the time than it does for Alan. And I think that's. I don't know. I don't think there's any problems with that. So, yeah, we've realized that over. That's probably over the last three years. We've really, uh, really realized that.

Speaker A: Gotcha. And I'm trying to recall there was a moment during our discovery call where I started to be like, do you say this because of this or that? And I'm wondering if it was that moment there or if it was something else. I'm trying to recall what that was.

Speaker B: It was. You mentioned how you had talked to Amy and Alan and they said that I was pivotal in the growth of this and whatever it was. And I said, uh, you're just. I'm just a regular dude at the end of the day. And I'm grateful that I have wonderful people around me. And I don't think I'm really anything special. I just work really hard. And you asked a great question, which I. Which I really, really liked. It was something along the lines of, do you think that's you moving back into your old way of thinking, into your old mindset, into the.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The scarcity. And do you want to go. You want to Go into that. Before I answer, uh, I gotta remember

Speaker A: what that structure was. I think I came off the cuff, to be honest. But, yeah, I was. I think it was like. Because if that's what you said to me, that's what I would have been like. Hold on. So let's talk about that. I feel like I'm clocking something there. But, yeah, it is. Is. But I mean, we've talked about it before, but. But to, uh, kind of reiterate it here. Yeah. Is. Is. Is that you coming from a place of this is truly your personal perspective, or is it more kind of your humbleness to a fault kind of thing, to the point where you're not letting yourself be a bit more braggy than you think you should be?

Speaker B: I think it's a mix. I think one, the more confident I get and the better I feel at, like, being in control of my life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The less I. I don't feel the need to be braggadocious or I don't really care, who knows? It's weird because that's what I needed at the beginning. It was like, I need, ah, everybody to think I'm successful. So that is. That's evolved in a way. So that's a piece of it. The second piece of it is I realize that all of this could end tomorrow if I stop working as hard as I do. Like, that's definitely a realistic thing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And at the end of the day, I don't feel like I'm entitled to anything. I am as successful as I should be based on the amount of effort and the amount of BS I've gotten rid of. And when I get to the next level, I'll let go of more BS and I'll be more successful. But this. This whole thing, if anything, has just stripped so much entitlement out of me. Like this entrepreneurship thing, this podcast thing. I'm so very blessed to be here, and I have to earn it every single day because there are people out there that are really, really hungry to get to where we are. And if I ever lose that hunger, then we're not going to get to where we want to be. So I think that's a, uh. I think that's a really big piece of it. And the other thing, too, is, I try to remember, like, this was literally a dream come true. This. This whole thing started with me saying, imagine what that would be like if you could do that for a job.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I don't ever want to lose sight of that perspective. That. The fact that I get to live My freaking dreams. Like how frickin privileged am I? So I just like to the most of the pain that has come to me in my life has been through delusion, just lack of awareness. I don't want to live in delusion. I'd rather have the truth. And the truth is, yes, I am very important to this and what it is that we do. And I also have a long way to go. And it will always be those two. I'm the best I've ever been and I'm the worst I'll ever be again. And that's the goal, essentially forever.

Speaker A: Gotcha. And I think you also voiced a, uh, fear that is verbatim one of my own as well. Granted, I've not made it quite to where you and Alan are yet, but you said you voiced a fear that if you feel the second, the second you would become a little too proud, little too braggadocious. I'll borrow your terminology. Is the second you're afraid everything will just fall apart?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Bye bye.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Yeah, that, that's something I, I felt for a very long time as, as well. And that's, I think that's what I was trying to, to get at too. But at the same time, I think part of my, where I, where I was coming from myself is I've had a lot of people in my life who, because I'm very comfortable with also kind of self ragging a bit and kind of dumbing myself down a little bit and then having people around me who are like, don't do that, that annoys them. So I think I've, I've kind of adopted that mindset over time where I appreciate your, your humbleness and I appreciate your practicality in how you view yourself in relation to the other factors in this business. But don't do it too much. You have a quota and you're almost there for me.

Speaker B: Well, that's the, that's the hard thing BC is because there's people in your life that will. Because one of the things we talk about on the podcast all the time is like right now, I would say I'm in shape, quote unquote now, but there's been times where Alan and I are on the podcast and we're kind of giving each other crap because we're, we're out of shape. Uh, when I say that, I mean by my standards. So when somebody reaches out and says, no, you shouldn't say that about yourself. It's like, look, I was, I was on a bodybuilding stage in my underwear. You could see every vein in my body. My standards are really high for. I'll do a podcast episode, we'll get off, and people will say, that was, um, that, you know, that was really good. Now, honestly, it wasn't. It wasn't that great. Thank you for the compliment. And my standard is what I have to live up to. I have to live up to my standards, because if I don't live up to my standards when this interview ends or when the person on the other end of the microphone goes, I'm the one who's miserable. Right? So. So I think that's a. That's a really important piece. The times where I have regretted moments have been. The times where I went outside of the person that I knew that I was supposed to be. And those were the ones where I was arrogant, and those were the ones that I want. I. I wasn't really humble. I think humble humility to me is living in the truth. And the truth is, do I think there's anybody who's going to take my spot? No. Good luck. Good luck. You want my spot, you come for it. Good luck. And there might be a hungry 17 year old out there right now that says, all right, bet. Let me see. Let me see if I can take it. So it's always that. It's always. It's always a juggling act of that.

Speaker A: Gotcha. Uh, no, and. And I appreciate what you mentioned about, like, to your standards, too, because I'm. I'm feeling the same way, too. I'm going to come off this and be like, I don't like how he sounded because I'm constantly trying to find my better placement for my voice, and I haven't found it yet. But you've complimented. So I'm gonna be like, okay, my throat hurts, but I sound fine. Anyway, and we'll just go from there. Um, but that's a good point to make, too. You know, m. Humbleness being both, you know, practically oriented, but also being knowledgeable, uh, enough in. In the space that you do take, which I think is really, really, really important.

Speaker B: I think it's truth. I think it's truth if you're good at something and somebody says, hey, you're really good. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I. I could get better. And that's. That's it.

Speaker A: We.

Speaker B: We have a client who once. He's a very successful man. He's very well read, he's a great speaker, just a very intelligent person. And he said, kev, the press is never right. You're Never as good as they say. You're never as bad as they say. It's always, it's always somewhere in between. And I've always, I've always tried to, to keep that top of mind.

Speaker A: All right, that's good. And who, who is that person, if I can inquire?

Speaker B: His name is John Laredo. Shout out to you, John.

Speaker A: John Laredo.

Speaker B: John Laredo.

Speaker A: All right. Thank you for that. Man up. Like, what the hell are you talking. What the hell are you talking about? Now, I got a fun creative question for you because, um, considering that you, you don't come from a podcasting background per se, that is something you found and then you. And you taught yourself. I have this, um, kind of argument that I like to make because even though I come from a radio background, I always call myself a late bloomer in the sense that I didn't know for the first four years of my five years of undergrad that I wanted to be in radio. But I learned quickly. And so I've always made this argument that. And I want to hit you with it. You don't let me prologue a bit more. You know, people look at podcasting a lot of times they think you have to have a sure mic to kick off or you have to have a 4K camera to kick off or have a cool studio. You know, all these things that people don't have the budget for typically when they kick off in our world. But my argument has always been that so long as you understand pre and post production, especially post production, you can have crappy equipment and still create high quality content. You don't necessarily have to have an undergrad in broadcast media or a degree in this or that. So I wanted to hit you with, with that question as well, being more of a self taught, but still very effective creative. And get your thoughts on on that argument yourself.

Speaker B: I mean, I tell people all the time, start where you're at. I don't, I don't even care if you use a microphone in the beginning. I think for so many of us, we just have to put enough reps in to believe it's actually possible. And I would much rather somebody do 20 episodes without any equipment and all of it be garbage and then say, all right, I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to invest $40 into a microphone. Awesome. Love it. I'm all about sustainability. I think if we're any example of anything, we all, we started with stuff that was sustainable. That was it. It was start with sustainability. Do that consistently and then improve it. That's it. And if you do that for long enough, you can get really, really good at things. So I'm on your side for sure. I think too many people go out and buy the new shure. Too many people say I need this camera or whatever it is and then they go buy it. I had somebody pay me $1,000. They were going to be a client. I said, send me a list of equipment. Okay, cool. Shure Rodecaster. Here's the camera, here's the background, all the stuff. Here's the mic arm. Cool.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Rodecaster for they never did an episode BC they never did a single episode. So it doesn't matter. It's useless now. Uh, they had a lot of money so it didn't matter to them. But I would much rather somebody have a passion and just pick up their phone and record an episode. That's how most people start anyway. And it's really cool to look back on that when you're 100 episodes in or you're 200 episodes in or whatever it is. So I'm on your side for sure. I think you learn more by doing than you're going to learn by prepping the doing.

Speaker A: Mhm. Mm. And now your day to day, you're overseeing the production for how many shows?

Speaker B: As part of Next level, we produce 69 podcasts and it's all the way from some shows are bi weekly to we have several daily podcasts that we produce at this including ours. But there's other daily shows as well. There's other people trying to, trying to do their thing daily as well.

Speaker A: Goodness. Uh, and how much of that are you yourself producing in terms of like

Speaker B: end to end production? I'm doing almost none of the end to end. But there are, there's a handful of clients that I do thumbnails for. When I coach clients. I help them name episodes and I help them script out episodes with hooks and that type of stuff. So at all times I try to have the ability to work really, really closely with like a handful of clients because it's important. You've got to know what people are going through. I want to make sure that I'm able to coach at a high level. So yeah, I would say I'm not doing. I uh, still do some video editing. I was literally video editing right before I came here. But not necessarily end to end with clients. So I'd say a handful of clients hand picked based on what my unique skill set is at this point in time.

Speaker A: Gotcha. Yeah. And what do you think are still some of the most common misconceptions about our world that you still see with clients. Clients even today?

Speaker B: Uh, one of the biggest ones is if I'm a good enough interviewer, everything will just work itself out and then I'll be able to monetize my podcast. And it's like that. Yes. And that's what everybody is trying to do at this point. So it's really hard to monetize that way, thinking that. And I was guilty of this thinking that if I, if you just do it for long enough, it'll work out. No, consistency is not a strategy anymore. It is a requirement. There's, it's too easy for people to be consistent now. You can't win just on consistency.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You have to have some level of strategy, some level of business understanding, some level of sales understanding, because that's most likely the way that you're going to win long term. And then this is one of my favorite ones. I just talked about this on, on an episode. It doesn't really matter that you're lined up with guests for the next six months. That doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because getting, uh, guests is the easiest it's ever been. That's not what's gonna lead to your success. Even if you're the podcast that has a guest on and then you have them review your show and do this and do this like you're not, you're not really gonna win that way. It doesn't work that way in the long run. So I'd say those are a couple of the most common ones. Here's a. This is an easy one. If somebody reaches out to you and says they're an SEO specialist on YouTube and they can help you get X amount of views in X amount of days run in the opposite direction, that's not real. They're not real. They're going to rip you off. I've seen it. I have clients right now. We're rebuilding their, the algorithm because they got ripped off. So that's a, ah, common thing. I see.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you just mentioned that it's, it's, it's no longer a, uh, strategy. It's more requirement now. But consistency, of course, is still, as you said, requirement, still very, um, important to our work. It's, it's foundational at this point. So with how much you NLU produces, what are your habits or what habits do you instill into your team or into your clients to help kind of maintain high performance without burning out at least too quickly, because I'm sure burnout's still going to be a thing eventually. But as far as, like, prolonging that destination and, you know, keeping the energy

Speaker B: up, I am very big on. And we kind of talked about this. I'm very big on communication. So at the end of the day, if somebody is overwhelmed and they're struggling and they don't feel like they can get what they need to get done, I really want them to tag me in. Like, let me know, uh, I can move calls. I have a lot of flexibility. So please use me as the last line of defense. And then if I get burned out, let me figure it out. I. I take every Sunday off. I don't work Sundays. I'll be able to get up and do it again Monday. I'm, um. The last line of defense. Allen's last line of defense. That's the way it's supposed to be. That's what we signed up for. So. So that's one. The second thing is, every time something goes right and. Or wrong, we try to figure out what is the lesson. So what's the most important improvement and what's the most important win? What did we learn from this? And based on this, what can we improve next time? And every time there's a mistake, I literally message the team and say that every time there's a big win, we. We have the same conversation. That's really big. And I think in the simplest form, you gotta put yourself first. So I. If I had it my way, everybody would be able to get eight hours of sleep every night. Like, that's the way it would. That's. That's how you would do it. M. I mean, that would. That would be the way. So that's what I'm trying to do. I try to sleep eight hours. I try to exercise, I get my water in, I try to make sure I'm eating well. If you. One of the best ways to delay burnout is to become stronger as a human being, not just physically, but you're sleeping, you're hydrating, you're doing all the things that your body needs in terms of fuel. So that's something that we try to be big on. But at the end of the day, everybody's their own person and they're going to do what they want to do. But, yeah, we're big on teamwork. I want to know if you're struggling or if you're planning on traveling or if you're planning on, you know, if family stuff happens, let me know, I'll find a way to make it work. That I think that's, you know, that's important. There's a lot of stuff and there's a lot of moving pieces and there's a lot of pressure and there's a lot of stress. And not everybody, very honestly, not everybody knew what they were signing up for.

Speaker A: Sure. Yeah.

Speaker B: Myself included. I think Alan probably did more than anybody. But I, I, uh, didn't know how strange this journey was going to be. So I want to make sure I pass on that, uh, that forgiveness for lack of better phrasing to other people.

Speaker A: Got it. And moving further into what, what it's like to be coached by Kevin when it comes to what people should expect. And going into what I learned with my one coaching session with Alan is that for him, he likes to see someone who's willing to admit that they need to learn that they don't feel, feel that they have the perfect strategy already. Otherwise, what are you doing here? Um, I want to know comparatively, what's your approach? What can, what can someone look forward to when they're coming into a coaching session with Kevin? What does that setup look like? What are your expectations? What are the important signs for you to know based off of your guys's system? Um, like if this person's green, good to go, or red, like, I'm not gonna fuck with them.

Speaker B: M. Very similar to Alan. I did a podcast breakthrough session with some. Someone. Podcast Breakthrough session is a free call where I'm literally just there to help as much as I can.

Speaker A: That's.

Speaker B: That was, that was the basis. And I said, I say the same thing every time based on where you are and where you aspire to get. What do you believe is the most valuable use of our time together? You tell me where you want to go. And the person literally said, oh, I don't know. I don't. I don't need to work on everything. Anything. Everything's fine. What are we, what are we doing here?

Speaker A: Right, yeah.

Speaker B: Then, then I'm wasting your time because I'm going to be a pain in the butt. Uh, that person, they could offer me a large sum of money. I'm not interested. I'm not interested in working with, with that type of person who thinks they've already arrived. So somebody who is humble, somebody who is hungry, somebody who wants to add value and impact the world. I do really well with heart driven people. Always, always, always have. That's really big. And then for whatever reason, I do really well with questions. So when I Have a client who brings me a list of questions. That is the best. Because I don't want to necessarily teach you something that you already know. I don't want to teach you something that you're not ready to learn. That isn't necessary right now. I like to be very, very, very specific. So Alan is macro and he's going to start with your lifetime and then break it down to the minute. I'm micro. I will start with the minute and then we'll try to figure out how that connects to your lifetime. I have a much shorter time perspective than Alan. So, uh, I, Yeah, I tend to be much more tactical and tangible. So if you're into that, that's very much the coaching I, uh, do. If you're looking for, like, lifestyle design, I'm not the guy because I'm more focused on what's happening right now. I like to be in the weeds.

Speaker A: Gotcha. And have you found, working with the number of people that you have as coaches or trainees of yours, that you sometimes have to have multiple approaches to teach the same thing?

Speaker B: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Some people, some people like to be led for a longer period of time. So you show them something, you say, all right, go practice this. And then we check in. Okay, let. How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? And then some other people, they just, they like to be put into the pressure cooker. Yeah, that's what they, that's what they like. So I have a client. This is something you'll see in the next level, um, podcast accelerator. But one of the things that has helped me tremendously is doing. And this is not my thing. This is a buddy of mine, his name's Eddie Panero. This is his thing, not mine. But he would go on random word generator and he would just generate a random word and he would have to do a one minute video on that word. And I was on a coaching call with a client and she asked, she said, how did you improve your speaking? How do you, what do you think made the biggest difference? And I said, that was one of them. And she said, okay, well, maybe I'll start doing that. I said, why don't we start now? And I pulled up the random word generator and she loved it and she did a really good job, but it was also very humbling for her. So somebody who has very high self belief needs to be challenged. Somebody who has very low self belief needs to be supported and believed in and guided more than pushed. And yeah, to your point, everybody's a little bit different. And your coaching style, your leadership style, your feedback style has to mirror what they're ready for, for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. Now, one of the big things that I like to focus on with the show now is the relationship between creativity, uh, which feeds entrepreneurship, which feeds culture, reflecting on where you draw your creativity and what your entrepreneurial venture has been like to this point. How do you either see yourself currently or how do you want. Or how do you see yourself wanting to feed back in to podcasting culture, knowing that what you put into that collective culture will affect the perspective of the next wave of creatives to come into the world?

Speaker B: I had a moment. So I have a podcast called Podcast Growth University. It's about podcasting. I had a moment, I don't know, maybe like six months ago, where I drew a line in the sand and essentially said, I'm not going to do the same episodes at all. All the other podcasts about podcasts are doing. I don't want to do that. I'd like to have a more, a, uh, more psychological approach where I talk about the fears of the mindset and sales and like, I want to talk about stuff that actually matters, not how to get a hundred more downloads. I don't want to do that. That's not. That doesn't really. Based on my experience, that wasn't the thing that moved the needle the most. It was all of the skills underneath that, that nobody else really talks about. So I don't know. For me, I'd like to be the person who tells most truth. I'd like to be the person who people say, never. He never misled me. Maybe I didn't like his. His advice or his strategy because it was a little too hardcore for mine. Totally fine with that. I just want to tell the truth. And I think that. I don't know. I don't. I think a lot of people get into something to make their life easier, and as a byproduct of that, they try to make other people's lives easier, which I think leads them down paths that aren't actually good for them. And based on, um, as somebody who has been quote, unquote, successful, as a podcaster, who got advice from a lot of really successful podcasters, almost none of that advice was that good. It just didn't really serve us. So, yeah, my goal is to be that I want to be honest and I want to be transparent and I want to talk about the crap as much as the good stuff. And I hope people see that and it's because I care. Right? It's next level university is heart driven, but no bs. Like, I'm going to tell you like it is because I, I love you enough to do it. As a podcast coach, it's the same thing. I, I wish I could tell myself what I needed to know eight years ago. That's my goal to do that now. So, yeah, that's, that's how I like to, to try to, to pour back love.

Speaker A: No, love that. That's a great way to, to look at it. And when, when you mention helping people realize the skills that aren't talked about enough. Like what? Give an example of what those would look like coming through. Uh, your, your podcast.

Speaker B: I think honestly, sales might be the biggest one. When people think of sales, I think they think of, okay, you're gonna get this person to buy something. No, no, it's not that. It's an exchange of anything for anything. It doesn't mean you're selling anything. Maybe. Okay, sales and influence. We'll say influence. You want to get a big guest on awesome. How do you do that? Well, you work your way up to the point where you have a fairly large name guest, and then you send a message to BC and you say, hey, bc, we would love to have you on our podcast so you can talk about your new book. We actually just had blank person who, we know you guys follow each other and you've collaborated together on. They said they had a great experience. We would love to introduce you to our audience. That's influence. That's that sales, in a way. So I think one of the reasons and one of the ways we were able to get some of the bigger guests that we got on was because we were understanding of what was in it for them. They don't want to spend an hour and a half with us. They don't want to have to research us. They don't want to have to do a bunch of stuff. They want to show up, they want to add value and they want to get on to their next thing. And it was always, always our goal to make it easy for them to do that. So, yeah, sales and persuasion. At the end of the day, if you're asking somebody to go join a Facebook group, if you're asking somebody to come on a pod, whatever it is, you're going to have to understand influence and you're going to have to understand what influences them. That is one thing that just isn't. It's just not talked about enough because it's hard and it it's not. It doesn't fit in the. The silo of. Oh, you're a podcaster. Okay, here's how, uh, you title your episodes and blah, blah, blah. It's. It's just outside of it. And I think it just requires a more committed human who actually wants to hear that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So for anyone who is not yet familiar with Next Level University, despite seeing Alan's, Amy's, and now your episode, and the eventual trifecta episode, which I hope we'll be able to logistically figure out,

Speaker B: I'm sure we will.

Speaker A: What do you want people to know? M. To influence them, to go and check you out.

Speaker B: Our podcast will not make you feel better. It's. You're not going to leave and say, oh, my goodness, I feel so much lighter, or, oh, my goodness, I feel so much more hopeful. But you will have the tangible, tactical things to get to the next level in your life. That is. That is it for us. I want to lead by example, and I want to show up and say, look, if you want to get a little bit better every day, right? We do an episode every day for a reason. If you want to get a little bit better every day, we're going to be there on the journey with you, and we're not talking at you like, we've already arrived. I'm going through my own stuff. Alan's going through his own stuff. We're figuring it out as humans, and we have really big goals, so we're never actually going to arrive. So we'll always be striving. So, yeah, if you're looking for people who are on the journey with you, maybe we're ahead, quote, unquote, maybe we're in a different direction, whatever. But we are doing it every day, and we're leading by example. And, yeah, if you're somebody who wants to maximize your potential, we are right there to help you do it.

Speaker A: Now, that same question, but in regards to people wanting to be coached by you or Amy or Alan and or join the next cohort, what should they understand vehemently before hopping into that particular kind of seat?

Speaker B: Be humble. Just be humble. I know at times we seem very intense, and we can be, but we love somebody who says, hey, I'm just looking to get to the next level, and I. I don't know how to do it. Awesome. Love it. That is my life story. In a very short amount of words, I would say for Alan, you gotta be somebody who really, really, really wants to put in the effort, and you have to be somebody who understands that it's going to take time. I mean, Alan's really good at getting people very quick results, but he's really, really good at changing people's lives if you're with him long enough. Um, I'm maybe the best example of that. Right. This is eight years of coaching with Alan. Amy is wonderful at so many things. She's really good at helping people with self worth, self belief and understanding how to set goals that you actually feel like you can hit, like, Amy's world class at that. As somebody who is exercised every day for like a thousand days or something insane at this point in a row, just crushing it. And then with me, if you're a podcaster and I don't know if you. If you want to spend time around somebody who is doing it and in the trenches every day. I know a lot of podcast coaches who did, like, 50 episodes and, like, I'm a. I'm a coach now. I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that guy. I'm on 3500 something. That's. This is probably my 3511 episode or something. I'm in the trenches with you. I'm trying to figure out what works alongside you. And, yeah, you have an ally in the battle that is. That is me. I would say, in a nutshell.

Speaker A: All right, man. That's Kevin Palmieri from Next Level University. Thank you so much.