The New Era of Direct Mail

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of Brand Narrative, the podcast where we explore the world of marketing creativity and the genealogy of good ideas. Brand Narrative is hosted by Matt Certo and the agency he calls home. Find some and win more.

Speaker C: Foreign.

Speaker A: Welcome to another episode of the Brand Narrative podcast. I'm glad you're here. I'm excited about this conversation. Uh, we're going a little bit old school, but it's actually not going old school because we're, we're talking about direct mail, um, but particularly about how direct mail has come into the future. And sometimes I bring up direct mail in a digital marketing meeting. You can sort of hear the pause about, did he just say direct mail? Putting something in print and then actually sending it to the person? Uh, and actually we've seen some really cool things happen when we've done that in recent years. And so we're here to talk with an expert and a teammate partner that we work with a, uh, great deal. Evan Stewart of Direct One. Direct One is located in Orlando and is a commercial print and direct mail services provider. It does a lot of different things in this landscape, and we're going to, uh, really dive in with Evan into, uh, what that actually means and, um, learn a bit about his world and how it can help all of us in the marketing realm. So, Evan, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Speaker C: Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And did I say that right when I characterized, uh, Direct One?

Speaker C: You did, uh, we lean heavily on the direct mail side, um, which, you know, from a commercial print perspective kind of differentiates us, I think a lot of commercial printers. Direct mail was also just kind of a byproduct. We are actually born and bred from the direct mail space, uh, meaning we can do everything from the strategy to the creative to the production to the sending it out and then tracking it and then getting the analytics on the back end, which we can then feed the other parts of your marketing team. So it helps to make the digital better, helps make the TV better and the radio and everything else that you're trying to do.

Speaker A: So did you find that offensive when I was saying old school in the print world? I mean, I'm sure you get that a little, a lot, but, um, I'm probably not the first one to characterize it that way.

Speaker C: No, not at all. And, uh, you know, it's kind of interesting. Um, there's like a generational divide within the industry itself to where you have some of the folks that are getting, let's say, closer to retirement. They sell A certain way. Usually when they're going in, they're talking about their equipment that they have and how many pieces they can run an hour. Whereas more my generation, we're going in and we're talking to a marketing director and these are the questions, right? They're saying, hey, how can this help me with what we're doing with TikTok? We're looking at spending, um, this much money on meta. How would direct mail help that? So, no, I think it's great and it is old school, but it's also moving into this new, let's say, digital age and trying to find ways to be more impactful overall.

Speaker A: When I took a tour of your facility not too long ago, I was very impressed. And when you were talking to me in general about some of the things that were coming off the press, you were talking about things that weren't just sending appeal letters. You were talking about things that were very much tied to digital campaigns and variable data and being able to customize messaging to people and maybe integrate with, uh, the world of digital marketing where people are looking to track everything, which I think sometimes to a fault. Um, can you, can you share a little bit about the misconceptions that you find that people have when maybe they don't understand how integrated you, your world actually is with the digital?

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, it all starts with personalization. Right. And that's, that's one of the benefits of digital advertising. Everything can be personalized. Well, it's like that with direct mail these days as well. We're no longer printing with offset devices where it's just about a million piece run and every piece is the exact same. We are now printing with digital inkjet devices and it is a million piece run, but every piece can be a little bit different. So if our data file has your name or if it has, um, some sort of indicator that you are a dog person versus a cat person. We could have a version that has a dog on it versus a version that has a cat on it. Right. So personalization down to the individual one to one level is huge. And so that allows it to then play a part with what you're doing on the digital side and to be a complement of it and not necessarily a competitor.

Speaker A: So when you look at a particular campaign or something that comes across to you as an idea or something that a client wants to do, what are the things that tend to really do well in the actual mailbox? Um, and when I go to my mailbox, I'm always evaluating who is repeating particular message or sending a series of things. Um, as you look at that landscape and what strikes you as things that

Speaker C: are really working well, things that are on message, but you're not sending the exact same time every single time to the client. Right. So we like to say if we're going to do a mail campaign, you want to very least do it three or four times, um, so you can generate that proper response. So when I say three or four times, I don't mean sending the same exact six by nine to the household three times. I mean let's send a six by nine, then let's send a six by 11, and then maybe let's send a self mailer or a letter. Let's mix it up a little bit. So it's not the exact same thing, but the branding itself looks the same. And you're building that repetition with your target audience. So they then know, you know, have a general idea of, okay, these folks are trying to reach me, but, um, they're trying to reach me in creative ways. You know, it's not the same thing where mailbox trash, throw it away immediately.

Speaker A: Are there particular industries that you find are really doing better than others with this, this application or this approach? I mean, I know you do a lot in nonprofit, you do a lot in political, you do a lot in retail. Um, what do you see thriving as

Speaker C: a rule, it's always been about the product kind of that dollar amount. Um, you're not going to want to do a big direct mail campaign for something that's just $100. Right? So typically this is why you see a lot of automotive mailings go in, you'll see a lot of home services. Usually it's products to where one buyer, let's say one customer, can bring a couple thousand to ten thousand to twenty thousand dollars to you. So, you know, it's a worthwhile investment. Um, that being said, you then look at the nonprofit site where the cost of the mail piece may be 70 cents. So anyone on a prospecting, um, in a prospecting file, anyone that sends more than 70 cents or even if they just send 20 cents, you can still go back to them again and again and again, right? You get them into your house file. So to answer the question, I guess it would be on a commercial side, it's really about the dollar amount of the product that you're selling. On a non profit side, it's more about what the goals are. If you're trying to prospect or if you're trying to just go back to some of these Donors and to generate a little bit more, um, fundraising demand.

Speaker A: You and I have talked a bit over time about the strength of the actual offer that is contained or the message that is contained in the actual piece. Um, can you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker C: Yeah. It's about relevancy. Um, we're actually going through this now with a client of ours, uh, to where they offer financing for their product. But sometimes we're sending this letter to folks that are net worth over a million dollars, two million dollars. So that financing offer isn't necessarily that appealing to them. And we're working with redesigning that piece for folks of a certain net worth or a certain income to where we're putting more relevant information on there that might get them to act. Right. So it's really about just knowing your target audience. Right. And knowing what it is that's going to get them to move and then sending them something relevant to that to where maybe it's not a good use of real estate to have a financing offer on there if someone just absolutely, in no way would ever need financing for any reason whatsoever.

Speaker A: So that really speaks to the data and the quality of data. Do you have the ability to help clients that don't have data? Let's say I have an offer and I want to target newlyweds or I want to talk, I want to target, uh, soon to be, um, brides or first time moms. Um, can you help me with that kind of a product offering? Help me find those people?

Speaker C: Absolutely. Um, you know, we've worked, we've been around for about 30 years. So in that time frame, we've worked with a number of data providers and there are some that we have found that are just very, very good when it comes to direct mail and helping us, you know, figure out, uh, a lot of times our client doesn't really know what it is that they want. They just know the general idea. And so it's on us to decipher that. And sometimes we'll go to our data providers, our data partners, and we'll say, hey, you know, here's what they're trying to do. This is what we think. And then they'll come back with us to us with it with another suggestion. Right. So we built these relationships. But, you know, I'll do you one better. It's, it's not only can be newlyweds that are also expectant mothers that, you know, live, um, in Albuquerque. It could be things along the lines of maybe they're expected mothers and they bought a house three or four months ago. Um, and they may be in the market for a new car. Right. So there are these things that build on top of it. So we start out with any list. And, you know, this being in marketing, really, it starts out with the list and it's about, all right, how do we slice this list down to a point to where we can get the max ROI for what we're trying to spend our money on, um, and talk to that target audience exactly how they want to be talked to.

Speaker A: Well, and I know in the social media world, because we run a lot of social campaigns where it's, you know, you go into meta and you plug in what you want and your message is going to be put in front of the people that just describe a profile like that that you talked about. But I almost find in working with you that you have your own algorithm, you're able to produce the same kind of heuristics that produce a list of people, uh, or targets. Uh, and some of it doesn't have to be that complicated. You've helped us with households around different retail, um, outlets that exist. And that's. You can do that to the postal service, essentially, right?

Speaker C: You can, you can do that with usps. Um, they have every door, direct mail. But what you're also then going to want to do is take probably some demographic filters. Uh, so in addition to getting all those doors that are around there, then apply something like, you know, could be net worth or could be they have kids in the household. So it just helps you target your list a little bit better.

Speaker A: So do you have any kind of rules of thumb for response? Because, you know, we've gone from idea to let's find the people, let's find the message. Presuming the offer is strong. We were talking about this today. Are we QR coded to death as consumers? I mean, everybody's wanting a click here and buy now and any thoughts there on that? That sort of last.

Speaker C: You know, it's so the QR code. So I guess the opportunity, right, or the lead confirmation versus getting to the sell, there's so many things that happen in between then. Um, you know, as marketers, sometimes we get judged on the sell, but in reality we should feel like sometimes we should just get judged on the amount of leads that we generated. Um, the QR codes help. It helps with, I think, some demographics, more so than others. Um, it's not the end all, be all. Um, there are some folks that they still want to call, like, so you put the phone number on there and they just want to make the phone call. And then there are others. Um, we had a client the other day that called us. They had someone bring in a coupon from four years ago. Um, so it was just in a junk drawer, I'm sure something along those lines. And they just walked into the store with it and they honored it, um, was funny. But you know, it just kind of, uh, it just sort of depends on the audience. And you know, humans are, I guess, unpredictable at times. So I like to, and we suggest this to our clients, let's give them some options. Let's not just pigeonhole them into, hey, you can always scan these QR code, let's put our phone number on there. Um, trackable, ideally. And let's even have if it's relevant, if there's an in store opportunity, let's have a way for them to go and bring them LPC in and redeem something.

Speaker A: I also find too that you can't discount, although we want to discount this idea that when you put a postcard in someone's hands and it's got your brand on it, they may not take action. But that's an impression in the same way that you drove past a billboard with that same brand. Now, uh, you're not, you're not scanning a QR code or buying anything because you sell that billboard. But it was, it was one other impression that you can sort of add to the stack. Now you can't necessarily say, hey, I cash that in and here's the roi. But there is something to be said for the actual impression that's made.

Speaker C: It's the impression, it's one of the only things that's really tangible, um, versus sending email blasts or the, you know, the digital ad or um, even the commercial, I mean even the billboard that you mentioned. You know, you actually have to pick this up, walk with it in your hand, um, and put it on your counter or throw it away or whatever it may be, but you have to actually interact with it.

Speaker A: So I'm glad you said that, um, the word tangible, because that's something that is so critical and I think so cool about what you all do. It's actually putting something in someone's hands. I was laughing to myself a couple weeks ago. So we're um, right now as we record this a couple weeks prior to Thanksgiving. But about two weeks ago, like a lot of parents, I got this catalog, this printed catalog from Amazon and it's the kind of catalog you would never throw away. It's a toy guide. It's Got stickers for the kids. It's got, here's a template for writing a letter to Santa, here's a place to write your wish list for the kids. And I was thinking to myself, here is the digital retailer that killed everything tangible in every retail store. And here they are leveraging this printed piece which was so cool. I think that says something about, uh, what that tactile, tangible thing does when it gets in your hands.

Speaker C: That is very, very interesting. Um, that's awesome actually to hear. And something else that's kind of relevant to this is you hear a lot about the housing crisis and affordability, but for those first time home buyers, you see a lot of the response rate tick up a little bit with direct mail just because yes, they lived in apartments before, maybe they shared a place, but just having a place of your own and then you're getting mail at that place and it kind of makes you feel like I, um, guess an adult or you know, makes you feel like, hey, you have ownership in something. Um, and so I don't know, for whatever reason, they just kind of made me think of that exact same insight of Amazon is now sending catalogs along to folks and it's kind of bringing you back like a little bit nostalgic.

Speaker B: Brand narrative is brought to you by the team at Find Simon Winmore, the agency helping brands find and win new customers since 1995. For assistance with brand development, strategy, digital and social media, public relations and more, visit us on the web@, uh, findsomewinmore.com or connect with us on social using, uh, Indsum Winmore.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I remember growing up as a kid that catalog would come and that's how you figured out what was available to you to buy. And I thought those days were gone, but they've obviously brought them back. Um, when it comes to. Actually to go back on something you said a minute ago, when it comes to looking at the roi, which is a scary word sometimes, uh, to think about, um, how do we answer that question in terms of what the ROI of something is or how do we know something actually worked as a campaign? How do you help a client unpack that?

Speaker C: Yeah, it starts with attribution. Um, so larger clients, they're spending money on a variety of channels. And then as a marketer we're always trying to say, well, they were in our direct mail list, so we want to attribute the direct mail to a portion of this sale, even if they did go in through the website. Right. Uh, so attribution is key and it's, it's Honestly, sometimes I know it sounds like a cop out. It's hard to get that proper attribution by channel. I mean, you'll see this with any brand. It doesn't matter. Um, but as a rule, I mean, some organizations, they like to go with cost per opportunity. So cpo, um, and that's an easy way for folks to measure it, meaning if it costs about $300 for us to get a lead, and we know our product is a $10,000 product, well, that makes a lot of sense. Then you can also, if you're attributing things correctly, you can also compare that across channel. Um, others, they just really honestly care about the response rate. So they're not necessarily too focused on the actual cost of that response rate. They just want to see, like, hey, we had 1% of our target audience go ahead and scan this QR code. So I guess, you know, it kind of depends on what the goal is. If you're trying to sell things, um, the cost per opportunity I think is important. If you're just trying to raise awareness on something, then things like the response rate are important.

Speaker A: Do you have any particular, um, tips that you give people on elevating a response rate that. I know there are all sorts of theories about these things, about when you're asking in a fundraising appeal, for example, or just stick with that example. You know, we've got Giving Tuesday coming up, and every nonprofit is going to be leveraging that day online or offline to try and raise money. Um, and if you're on the consumer side of that, you're receiving a lot of emails that day, you're getting a lot of phone calls. Um, for those that are putting things in the mail, are there tidbits you can share about what you've seen, work or not work? As far as verbiage, language, photography, do you. And close an envelope, do you put a stamp on that envelope? What, what have you seen work?

Speaker C: Yeah. You know, from a creative standpoint, it's just the old adage, what's in it for me? Right. The wifl, um, nonprofits. I always, always encourage our nonprofits put pictures and content about what it is that this money is actually going towards, uh, because that's what the donor really cares about. They want to feel good about themselves and helping a cause they identify with. Right. So focus on that. Like, really lean into that. We had one, um, nonprofit. There they are. Ah, Stored Preservation Society, more or less. And they were going to use money to buy up an area that maybe was like a former battlefield or something along those lines. And the conversation was, hey, you should do a brochure with the Zillow everything, land diagrams, all this stuff to show like, this is what the money is actually going to go to. And it worked. I mean, this was a blanket prospecting file sent to folks. Um, and the response was incredible, I want to say, like over 5%. Um, and, you know, they blew it out of the water, money wise. So I think that's always important. Um, think about things where you can kind of get creative, too. On the size side, um, if you're going to send a flat, right, like anything over a 6 by 11, maybe do an odd size, like a 9 by 12. Um, I like those because they're a little bit bigger than some of the other mail pieces. And so a lot of times someone's going to go to their mailbox and they're going to wrap up their mail and carry it in with that mail piece, right? So not only are they interacting with it, they're going to see it on the outside, so you can get creative that way. And then it's the personalization, it's leaning into the data insights that you have already. And instead of just creating the exact same piece and sending it to a million households, let's differentiate it a little bit. Let's put one with kids on the COVID and one without, if we know that they have kids or not. Um, so it's just taking advantage of the things that you already have that are about your product or about your association and just being smart about it and just trying things. And at some point you're going to hit something that's really going to click and drive up your response rate.

Speaker A: Yeah, those are really helpful tidbits. And I think, um, in some of my wheels are turning with some of the clients we work with on the nonprofit side, um, that, you know, they're looking for an edge or how do you just avoid getting caught up in the, you know, giving. Tuesday used to be a new thing 10 years ago, or whatever it was. Now it's. Well, we know it's coming. We know everybody's on top of it. And they're probably starting on the Tuesday before, you know, to try and beat the rush. So, uh, so those are helpful. Um, so where do you see all this going? Um, obviously it's come a long way as far as technology and what you can do. We're talking about variable data, variable printing, um, things you can test trackability of mail pieces that weren't there before. Do you see developments on the horizon that are going to take us into a new place with all this. What should we be thinking about?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you kind of look and in three years, is it going to cost more or less in the mail piece? It's going to cost more. Um, so clients are going to demand more roi. I think that's inevitable. So it could be things, it could be leaning into the variable data, as you mentioned. It could be using different types of inks and kind of metallics and paper stocks, things that stand out on the creative side. Um, and then it's always, I mean, the drive for us. Right now we get asked, we are basically developing our own internal dashboard that will track individual mail pieces in a huge run down to the household so we know exactly when they're going to be delivered. So our client can then either turn on or turn off their digital marketing, depending on what their goal is. Or they could send text messages saying, hey, you're about to get a mail piece, please check it. Right. And so it's just kind of that, to borrow the buzzwords, kind of that, that omnichannel surround sound approach to where everything is interacting with each other within the marketing mix and you're not just doing things in a silo. So I think those three trends, the personalization, the value add on the creative side and then just being a part of the marketing mix are going to just continue to accelerate.

Speaker A: You've mentioned that to me before. I think along the lines of, um, some of the things that we've worked on, which are you have the ability to integrate the actual mail pieces with a texting campaign or vice versa. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah, we do. We've done a couple campaigns. Um, it started out actually on the political side, um, to where I want to say this would have been an absentee ballot campaign and it was like 40,000 mail pieces, I believe. But, um, yeah, it was vote by mail. That's exactly what it was. Um, sorry, I'm just kind of remembering it. So it was a vote by mail and we were sending a mail piece and then we were sending the text message whenever we knew it was going to be scanned out for delivery that day, saying, hey, our mail piece is going to be there. And what happened was after the election, we were going back through and looking at the receipt because we're going to build a case study about it. And the client actually lost the vote on election day itself, but won the election because they won the vote by mail aspect of it by such a significant portion. Um, so, I mean, you had proof right there. That may not have been everything, but it definitely helped out. Um, so, you know, I thought that was very, very powerful. You see that now as well. Um, commercial, it's a little bit difficult just on the texting side of things. There's a lot of regulatory complaints, compliance issues. But you can see that with the non profits to where either if they're trying to raise awareness or just kind of up their donations, um, integrating text with what they're doing on the mail side has become, if not normal, it's become a lot more popular.

Speaker A: Absolutely. That's a great example. So, sort of zooming out here as we, we touch, um, on a couple final things. Um, first, for someone who's hearing this, let's say you're a CMO and you're hearing this for, um, the first time in a while, or you're thinking about direct mail in a way that you haven't in a long time. Um, are there a couple of tips you could give them to be thinking about how to approach the space or how could they start other than calling you, of course. But, uh, what should they start with if they're in the midst of marketing, planning or campaign? Um, planning, Yeah.

Speaker C: I guess it just kind of starts with, look at what you're currently doing and start thinking about the gaps. Is there a certain audience that you're just not hitting? You know, you're not getting the lift that you expect or that you want? Is there a product that you're maybe coming online with that it makes sense to look at investing in the direct mail, um, aspect of it? You know, I'll be the first one to say, like direct mail, this isn't something where you just want to send one piece out to a, an audience and that's it. You're going to want to invest in this and it's kind of like working out, right? You're not going to go and work out for a day and all of a sudden come back and, you know, you can lift 300 pounds or you've lost 30 pounds, you've got to actually work at it and becomes a process and routine. And then at a certain point you get really, really good at it. Right? So if you haven't done direct mail as a brand in years, um, think about what your appetite is for investing in that channel. Don't expect to come in and, you know, day one, hey, we haven't done direct mail in 15 years. We're going to send a mail piece to our audience. The first mail piece may actually do Pretty well because it's kind of new and a novelty.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: But then you may see a drop off on mail 2, 3. But I can promise you, once we get the data and we start to see who's interacting with this mail piece, um, which if we're doing versioning, which mail piece is really hitting versus, um, which one's not by, you know, round three, round four, round five, we're going to be pretty good at it and we're going to be getting the rock why that you want.

Speaker A: Made me think about something else in the course of that, Evan, which is, you know, I find, you know, if I open my email on any given day, like most of us, there's, you're going to get 100, 150. I don't know what the number is, but a lot of emails are going to come through. We all have multiple accounts, but if I go to my mailbox, there are a lot fewer pieces there, thankfully, which to me as a marketer, gives you a chance to gain a little bit more attention and traction if you are looking to get into that competition physically as opposed to, I want to try and stand out all these social feeds and all these email accounts that are out there. Um, so I think there's an opportunity with print to direct mail to get more attention.

Speaker C: I agree. You know, we are just inundated with a bunch of digital advertisement and email, um, to the point to where it's almost automatic to delete your emails, uh, which I do. And then sometimes I'll realize I deleted one that maybe I shouldn't have. Um, so, yeah, I think it's just almost reaction now to have spam. Um, maybe that's a little bit of the reason why direct mail is seeing somewhat of a renaissance, because you're getting back into that. Okay, we've gone. So the pendulums go. Gone so far this way. It's kind of swinging back a little bit. We're finding that right mix. Um, you know, a lot of times as well, clients will come to us and they'll say, what should we do with the envelope? You know, uh, we want to put a design on it or want to do these things. And maybe the answer is you shouldn't. Maybe it should just be a plain white envelope and there's some novelty there. Uh, people open it because maybe they think it's a bill. And so it's, it's honestly just kind of playing into what's your strategy? What's the goal? What are we trying to do here? What's your investment appetite in this medium, what are you doing on the other channels? And then what does a target audience expect from you? And is the right play to do something that maybe catches them off guard, or is it just to do exactly what they expect?

Speaker A: Well, you make me think of the envelopes that, um, you look at them, there's a window on them, and right above your name, it says pay to the order of. They want you to think that it's a check, but you know it's not. Uh, but they want you to think that. So. Okay, so, Evan, before, uh, we get you out of here, this is what, what I think of as a lightning round of sorts. So. And I, I had fun thinking when I was walking through. You had all kinds of things that were coming off the press, all sorts, sorts of things that you were sharing about different companies, different brands that were trying things for profit, nonprofit. Can you share, like one of the. What's something crazy that someone has asked you to do as a campaign or off the wall that you've done? Is there anything really memorable that you've done over the years where you're like, wow, that was a really interesting exercise, A really unexpected thing that that client tried.

Speaker C: The automotive, um, marketing agencies are very, very unique. Right. It's a very tough industry. Um, and it's all about timing. So you'll see these guys come up with a lot of promos. Um, sometimes it's called a key mailing. They'll put a key in a mail piece and we'll have to do a tip on with the key. Um, it could actually be a real key, uh, but, you know, it doesn't open anything. But you'll put it in the mail piece and we have to send it out and you know, at a certain time. So it's hitting mailboxes right before a big tent sale or something along those lines. Those guys are always kind of. They're. They're. If you can deal with them and handle the expectations, they're fun to work with. And if you can't, it can really kind of stress, um, things and stress the team a little bit. Uh, so those guys are usually pretty creative, political. It's, it's similar in a way to automotive, um, but, you know, you've got some of your political, um, let's say consultants that they're just going to do the same thing every time. Six by 11, eight and a half by 11. And then you got others that are coming up with these wacky die cuts that just kind of fit. Like someone's going to take a chunk out of your wallet and it'll be like a bite mark on a metal piece. Right. So that can get pretty unique as well.

Speaker A: Ah, awesome. Well, Evan, hey, appreciate your time. Appreciate you sharing uh, the info with us. Uh, and I know we'll be talking a lot down the road but um, I'll put all your uh, information, uh, in in the uh, show notes here and uh, I'll look forward to do it again someday.

Speaker C: Awesome. Thanks Matt. Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: Appreciate

Speaker B: thank you for listening to this episode of Brand Narrative. For more information on the show, please Visit us at BrandNarrative FM. Um, if you have a marketing question or topic you'd like for us to address in a future show, please email your question as a voice memo to feedbackrandnarrative fm. Um, if you are enjoying the show, please leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.