Building Community-Driven AgTech with Greg Austic, Dan TerAvest, and Zach Ramirez

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome everyone. We are here with Think Tank and we're continuing our series on talking about innovative companies and businesses within the Michigan region. And today I have the folks from our size. So guys, can you give me an interest introduction? Uh, real quick to Arsai.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Um, ARSAI is a um, mission driven company. Um, and our focus is on supporting communities who want to ask hard research questions about the world. Um, rather than an academic or an industry researcher trying to extract research from the world, we really believe that the future of research is actually emergent from the communities engaged in it. And we want to build tools and services and products that support those communities. Wow.

Speaker B: Uh, okay, so let's, let's hone in a little bit on the mission driven side of this. Right? Because there's a lot of mission driven businesses and I think they can take many different shapes. Right. Like some of them they look for like very specific like outcomes and impact in a community. Um, some of them mission driven is like well it's just our passion and we want to see it come to the world. Like what does mission driven mean to you guys?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think mission driven means supporting the organization's mission. I think that's where people can get confused is like we're m not coming into it saying like we want to see like regenerative agriculture. We're in the agricultural space. So regenerative agriculture is really hot right now. You hear about it a lot if you're within the ag tech sector and we care about it. I'm not saying we don't but like we're not like we're here for regen agriculture. Like we're here to support the organizations. An example is we have 200 farmers in our organization. They want to support their community to enhance their agricultural outcomes using uh, regenerative agriculture. So our mission is to support them, not necessarily their mission.

Speaker B: Mhm. So 200 farmers are currently in your community. Right. And um, for those like where are they at? Like is this mostly in the Michigan region? Like are these all around the world? Tell me a little bit about the work that you guys are doing and the impact that you're already seeing with your company.

Speaker C: Ah yeah. So that example is like um, well we work with a variety of groups to Dan's point. So we'll just take a case example. So we work with Pennsylvania Sustainable Ag. PASA is the name. Um, so they have been around since the early 90s. They started uh, they're completely farmer focused. They're a nonprofit. Their board is all farmers, um, focused in Pennsylvania, but now they've expanded sort of across the eastern seaboard. Um, and they really started as an organization that just helped organize farms interested in regenerative ag. Before the word regenerative ag basically existed in the early 90s. Um, and um, have since sort of gone into supporting those farms and other farms in a diversity of ways. And one of the ways about 10 years ago is they started this soil health benchmarking study which basically just helped organize farms who were interested in uh, to collect soil data and then compare soil health scores across farms, uh, or farms of similar farm type or producing similar crops. You can't just be like, hey, this uh, corn field and then this cucumber field have similar soil health scores. What does that tell you? It doesn't tell you that much. So you need to do some analysis basically. And in the context of that, that's a perfect type of example of thing that we want to support is like you've got a community of farmers asking a question that relates to them and benefits them, to Dan's point. And we want to come in and provide the tools and services and support to make that as efficient, um, a process as possible so that they can truly be independent and do that work. So we support their data systems and software systems and tools and then help project, manage components of it and things like that.

Speaker B: So let's zoom out a little bit here. Right. Because there's probably some listeners that are going to be like man, like what even is regenerative agriculture and what is the impact of that? Right. Um, so kind of educate me a little bit like what is the impact like both micro and macro of regenerative agriculture?

Speaker A: Yeah. I'll start with the example of organic because I think that's what most people are familiar with. Right. Um, organic is a set of principles. I'm not going to use certain pesticides, I'm not going to do certain things and I believe I'm going to have better both human health and ecological environmental outcomes. Because I'm following this process where regenerative differs is it is inherently outcome based. So it doesn't start from a white list blacklist of practices or products. Right. It starts with our goal is, for example, soil health benchmarking study to improve soil health. Soil health generally means making the soil more resilient.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. So if it's rains too much, it can act as a sponge and absorb it. Instead of flood, it rains too little, again, it's a sponge. It holds on to that moisture so plants can grow instead of drought conditions.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: These are just basic resiliency within agricultural systems to extreme water, to extreme temperature. Um, and so the movement has been organic kind of capped. Right. It's like, oh, everybody loves organic. Is like, oh, you have this great growth.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then it just like, flatlined. And for something like 20 years, the consumer demand for organic hasn't really changed. And some of that could just be the number of, you know, consumers who are actually interested.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Some of it could be a realization that just a white and black list of processes isn't really the way to improve our agricultural system.

Speaker B: Yeah. Have you guys seen that? Like, with that peak of organic. Right. Like, is it now just because consumers kind of feel like that should just be table stakes. Right. Like, it's just. It should be organic or like, is it common? Like, is it commonplace for that? Is that kind of like the correlation or is it different than that? Like, what are the drivers of. Like, if I'm a farmer and I'm trying to make changes in, you know, how I'm growing crops or, you know, whatever the thing is that I'm trying to grow, like, what's driving them to make those moves? Is it the consumer and what they're demanding? Like, talk to me about that relationship a little bit.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, the agricultural sector is extremely diverse and nuanced. Like, really hard to give a single answer. But, um, yeah, first and foremost, any existing farm that wants to survive needs to be focused on consumer demand and price.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So there's a ton of farms who have transitioned to organic solely on the basis of price.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's great. Uh, to an extent, that was the whole point of organic, was to shift the market. If your goal is to shift the market, that's one set of actions. If your goal is to shift a bunch of farmers mindsets about what they think about the world, you got a long road ahead. So if you can shift the market through price incentive, it will work. Um, and, you know, Dan and I both grew up on farms. I grew up on a farm still there, you know, it's not an organic farm. We do, like, corn, soy, wheat and hay in central New York. I've lived on organic, you know, regenerative farms. So, like, we've both been across the entirety of the industry. And I think what excites me about the kind of work that we get to do and actually about regenerative or at least the concepts before someone decides to take that word and make it mean something different. But is that it really, um, it helps to connect conventional, quote, Unquote. And other non conventional, regenerative, organic, biodynamic. Go down the list of words that you want to associate with yourself, people together around the concept of outcomes, whether that be soil health, ecosystem health, um, community health and benefits. We can all agree there's no farmer out there who goes, you know what I'd like to do? I'd like to ruin the soil, pollute all the water. No one does that. Right. So if we focus on outcomes instead of focusing on what ends up really honestly being politics, then we can get a lot further like. Yeah, as a community.

Speaker B: So, so talk to me a little bit about how you guys are like bringing technology into that. Right? Because you guys have a platform, right. And so, uh, two part question, right? Like I'd love to hear how you guys got in to what you're doing now, but then I'd also love to hear like how you're bringing technology into this space to help improve, um, you know, these, these different farms and farmers, you know, businesses in life. So let's start with like, how did you guys even start this journey? Let's start there.

Speaker C: Yeah, maybe I'll start and then I'll turn it to you, Dan. But I think we kind of, um. It's a little bit hard when you want, you know, our mission statement is to work with communities. Right. But then just like anything, like you know, uh, you have a product you want to sell to a market. Well, you don't sell to a market, you sell to an individual customer. You have to get down to the point of a thing.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: And we say we want to work with communities, but what we have found over the last seven years is that working with communities actually means working with a person who organizes a community, an organization which represents a community. Right. There's a, there's there has to be a thing on the other end of what we're working with. And um, I think unfortunately, or the reality is, uh, that thing and what that thing is motivated by and the community and what motivates them are not always one to one, perfectly related. And so I do think we have this like kind of bifurcation where we have tended to serve the, those groups that have had the capacity and willingness to use our services and fund us to use our services. And that has tended to be directed towards things like carbon markets, government, um, programs and support, the Climate Smart initiative, um, and other things like that. Those have a relationship to what producers want. But if you were to say, hey producer, what's your top five most important thing that's not in their top five. Right. Um, and on the other side, if you're talking to a producer, their top five thing is how do I sell my product? Like, how do I decrease my loss? How do I lower my costs? Those are their top five things. So I think traditionally we have focused on this group that has these higher level goals, which are fine. They're not necessarily one to one correlated with farmers. I think we would like to move into a more direct relationship with farms where we can really serve their top five needs in a more effective way with the tools and, and the services that we have developed over the last seven, eight years. I don't know if that's like a broad. I don't know if you want to go into detail.

Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead, Dan.

Speaker A: No, I think that's, that's a good answer. And I was, I was going to then take the second part of that question.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so when we first started, so me and Greg met, we were working on a collaborative project at Michigan State University and working on, very focused on photosynthesis, met a lot of communities, liked working with communities better. That was more interesting. So that's kind of what, you know, kind of led us to go out, start our side and get going. And a catalyst to that was we met, um, Dan Kittredge, who's the leader or CEO of a nonprofit called, uh, Bionutrient Food Association. And he had a very specific and interesting problem that he wanted to solve. He wanted to create a handheld instrument. You walk into a grocery store, you scan a lettuce, uh, leaf, and you get an instant answer about how healthy that lettuce leaf is. Right. It's like, let's make buying decisions based on nutritional quality instead of like, well, this one has less holes from insect bites or something else. Or again, this, this kind of generic whitelist blacklist, you know, processes from an organic label. And so that's where we really started and say, okay, well, this is, this is a big problem. Um, and as we started working our way back from that endpoint, it's like, oh, well, that we need a piece of technology. Um, so we had, uh, an open source reflectance spectra, that spectrometer that we had a concept for. So I was like, okay, well that can work, but you need to calibrate it. Oh, well, you start looking around at all the different labs and it's like, well, this stuff is really expensive. $800 per sample. You can never calibrate a sensor at $800 a sample. Okay, well, um, let's Start our own lab, because then we can scale methods more effectively. Instead of $800, we can do it for, like, $50 to $75. Okay, now we can scale. Well, if we're doing all of this, we need to understand where the sample came from. Okay, well, now we need to collect information from the farmer. It's not enough just to get their carrot. We need to understand what the variety of that carrot is. When was it planted? What's the type of soil it was in? How did you manage it?

Speaker C: And.

Speaker A: Okay, well, I guess we need to, like, identify or build a data collection platform that is effective for us to be able to get from the growers. It's like kind of you walk back and it's like over the course of, I guess, five or six years, it's like. Okay, well, now we have both a hardware sensor and a data collection platform that can be valuable for a lot of other communities.

Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so go back. The hardware part of this. You said some really long words altogether. And, you know, again, like, you know, if I think of, like, an average listener, like, like, what is that? What does it do? What are. What are the benefits? And. And say the name again for me, because I'll butcher it.

Speaker A: That's okay. Yeah. So it's a. Reflectometer is a simple word. Um, a general category would be a spectroscopy tool, which is.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Uh, we basically shine a bunch of different lights at an object.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker A: And based on the chemical composition of the object, so certain light is going to be absorbed, certain light's going to be reflected. And so by measuring that reflected light, we can start to infer the compounds and the chemicals that are there.

Speaker B: Got it. Okay. Okay. And the output of that, like, as you're collecting that information. So, like, if a farmer were to give you a sample today and you have all of that information, you're cataloging this in your technology, what are they learning, and then how are they applying those learnings back into their farm or their production?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Give me that relationship between the two.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, it assumes, first and foremost, m, you have a good calibration. Right. So light tells you nothing. Uh, you need a history of data to correlate the light response with your outcomes of interest. And your outcomes of interest are things that are, uh, measurable nutritional, um, qualities. So that could be the amount of phosphorus in the sample, potassium in the sample, things that would be on a nutrition label or things that aren't on a nutrition label but might be interesting, like antioxidants and polyphenols. Things like that. So the difficulty, and this was to an extent why it was such an interesting project just because of its breadth. So the difficulty is you can say, okay, well I can get a reasonable correlation between this light spectra and antioxidants for peppers in Michigan. Right. So you're gonna go down the line of specificity as to how much data did you have, how effectively does it correlate? There's a million reasons why, whatever, that's research level stuff. But even once you get to there, then you say well how much does antioxidants impact human health? And then you can go one step further and say how much does antioxidants impact me as a human, not general human health? And so, um, uh, yeah, it makes both the research question very interesting but also very expansive. And um, and uh, we took the research question quite a long ways. I think given the time frame and the money that we had. We took it about as far as we could get it. And uh, I think it's been interesting actually since we wrapped that project up. About two years ago, we closed down the lab. We did tens of thousands of samples across multiple years. We wrote several reports, we did correlations on crops from wheat to peppers, uh, to various nutritional outcomes. Um, but uh, uh, we didn't get to the point at the end of that that we could give an absolute concrete actionable outcome um, to a producer from this device in a way that was simple enough for the market to absorb it so effectively. It was like we found correlations. Actually the best one was probably the correlation between soil health, specifically soil carbon and um, a pretty diverse range of nutritional uh, density scores in wheat. That one was really fascinating and a bunch of reasons why. Uh, but in order to get it to the next level comes back to the conversation we were having before about scale. We would need to take what we've learned so far and really scale it to something that's like market ready, more data, more accessible if people are using the tool, better design, that kind of stuff. And there just wasn't the um, I think there wasn't the willingness from the investment community to take that next step because it's a, as we described, this is a non trivial research project.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a long tail problem, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But it sounds like all of the outcomes from solving this, there's a lot of downstream benefits uh, to being able to do this research and then have that understanding on the producer side. Like it, you know, it's one of those things like it takes a little bit to build but Once we have like, you know, hit that peak, the benefits are just so long lasting. Right. So do you have thoughts on that, Dan?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, a couple of things. One, I'll note that we're not quite done with this project yet.

Speaker C: We're still producing papers out of it. That's like the long, long tail is like you have to publish.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we're working on publications. But um, one of the, one of the things that's really interesting from those publications, right. We build up this big data set. Okay. We're in this process of diving in now and seeing what the stories are that we can publish in peer reviewed journals is that there's a lot of variability. M. A carrot is not a carrot is not a carrot.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Like different carrots can have wide ranges of variability. And if you take that back to you know, talking about region agriculture being outcome based, if a carrot was a carrot, then regenerative carrot outcomes would mean nothing.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But the fact that there is large variability is something that you can see within the space people are looking at and saying that means there are ways to identify growth patterns and growth processes that give me a better carrot. Which means there's opportunity for incentive that wouldn't otherwise be there.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's great.

Speaker C: Yeah. And just to give a couple examples, I mean that's super well said. A couple examples is like, does it mean we should, how we grow the carrot matters. If I took the same everything but I grew it this way versus this way, how much better is that carrot? Or does it mean we should be focusing on variety A of carrot versus variety B? Right. Or does it mean the storage mechanism and shipping mechanisms should be different? Right. So those are all the types of things he's talking about. The opportunity to improve. Where is that opportunity? Where can we optimize it?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So but it's there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Interesting.

Speaker B: And you know, I can see, you know, when, when you have that information and that data like ready and at hand, right. Like you know, going into different regions that maybe are struggling with different like types of production. Right. Like you know, crop production, stuff like that. Like they'd be able to apply this knowledge, right. I'm assuming they'd be able to apply this knowledge so that they can grow, overcome those hurdles that might be like in their region. Right. Um, whether that's on like the supply chain side, the growing side, the production side. Right. Like there's, there's applicables that they can take from the research that you guys are doing and storing like in this platform is that Is that right?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, I think that's right. I mean, I'll, I'll sort of caveat when I would do talks, um, about the Bionutrient Food association, it got people very excited, this concept of connecting soil quality, food quality and human health with sort of a bloopy piece of tech and blingy tech. Like, oh, man, it's like fire. Like, people love it. Uh, so we were constantly, I was constantly having to back it up as the science guy in the room and Dan also. Uh, but I would always start the conversation out with, uh, first and foremost, uh, eat more carrots and less donuts. If we eat more carrots and less donuts, we're 95% of the way there. Now I'm going to talk about the last 5%, the quality of carrots, but just don't forget, more carrots, less donuts.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, it's funny because somebody literally brought donuts in like 10 minutes ago. So I'm really sorry about that because

Speaker A: never eat donuts.

Speaker C: But to your point, you know, um, you know, there are. We are talking about, uh, I would argue, I think this is arguable, but we're talking about the last mile of our shared sort of nutrition problem that we have had increasing the last hundred years. But, you know, and if you go to other places that have real more significant nutritional limitations, you're talking about stuff like folic acid for pregnant mothers. And you know, you're talking about different types of solutions than the one that we're talking about here. So, um, yeah, it's important to sort of get specific about what problems we're trying to solve.

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, that's good. So, um, you know, I always like to kind of zoom out and talk about, like, the landscape that different businesses exist in. Right. And like ag tech, farm tech, like, in general. Right. Like, that's. It's been growing like a fair amount in like the past, like, you know, three, five years. Right. You know, I'm wondering from your guys's lens, like, um, is there anything that's exciting you about the landscape that you exist in? Like, is there anything that's like, man, like, that's something that we need and it just gets you jazzed up about that. Is there anything that you're seeing in the landscape or on the flip side of that, is there anything that still needs to be done to create the foundations of pushing innovation in ag tech?

Speaker A: I'm probably going to focus more on that second part. Um, there is, obviously with AI and remote Sensing tools and Iot sensors.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Farmers have access to more information than ever before. And at least if you look at the websites, these platforms look like they really benefit farmers.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and I'm sure there's cases where it's true what I'm seeing. So one of our platforms that we develop is, um, it's called Soil Stack. It's a platform to support farmers to make like smart sampling decisions of like, where do I physically stand in the field to take a sample so I can really represent this whole field. Soil sample.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and so as I'm thinking about scaling out this tool and where's the niche and I look at this new landscape of agtech that's coming up everywhere, the thing that concerns me is it's really become this zero sum game. You have two options. You go here and you go with this company and you have to buy all of their Iot sensors and you have to buy into their platform and you have to do all of this stuff because all of this data must be collected before those beautiful AI insights that are going to help you out.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Right. So, uh, whether it's an IoT sensor, whether it's remote sensing data, whatever it is, like once you've fed the beast, it's useful but you have to feed the beast. There's no choice.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And on the other end there doesn't feel like these opportunities for farmers to come in at the levels that they're able to. Right. I can't dip my toe in the water, see what the value is, make my own decisions and have agency over how I engage with technology.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And yeah, so that's the thing that concerns me the most is like, where can we like farmers are the original diy, go back to millennia, they are the original do it yourself people. And they're losing that agency, I think in a lot of ways in the current technology ecosystem.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah. If you've never heard of the right to repair and all the sort of issues surrounding that, um, I mean that's particularly impacted farmers. But yeah, just to reinforce what Dan said, like, you know, um, my brother's a farmer, our dad's a farmer. I'm talking to them all the time. We talk about using our technology on their farm and the technology they use. They run a large scale operation. They use John Deere operations center, you know, Case IH tractors, John Deere tractors. Um, and the universal feedback from them is, uh, I hate this crap. I can't think of another, I cannot think of another industry in which there's a bigger disconnect between the amount of money flowing into investment to solve problems and the level of uh, happiness and sense of utility on the part of the market. As in agtech. Billions and billions and billions of dollars goes into every year and farmers continue to hate it.

Speaker B: Uh, so what do you think is the jump then? Because there's an educational burden, right, that like exists there, right, with I think within any legacy educating who though? Right, Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So like where would you guys say, like where does that start? Like, is it more of like, hey, we need to form these like uh, you know, communities around this so that we can start doing this natural shared knowledge share. Like is that where it starts? Because I mean in anything like in any legacy industry, right, like we saw that Pre the Industry 4.0 stuff, right, is like there was a big pushback on like don't mess with something that we've done this way for decades and decades and decades. But now we're kind of beyond that and we're seeing it reshape a whole industry. Right. And they're, they're some of the first to adopt tech. Right. So where, where do you guys see that in ag tech? Like what's the first, what's the first leap in making that more of commonplace?

Speaker C: Well, I'll tell you what I'd like to see. I don't know if this is what will happen. Um, but you know, we're really, as you can tell, we're believers in community driven technology. And um, what's interesting actually about the ag space is the ag space has a long history of community driven things. Cooperatives. I mean there's a lot of stuff you buy at the store you don't even know comes out of a cooperative that's a cooperative. Cooperatives were developed in the United States initially primarily around the agricultural industry. That's where a majority of them were. And it was everything from equipment sharing cooperatives to sales cooperatives. Uh, a lot of the sort of banks and uh, uh, other types of systems for lending were cooperatives that came out of the ag industry. So the ag space and I think rural people in general have a long history of cooperating where and I would argue actually the government has done the same thing. What has failed is over the past 50 years, farmers have increasingly used and become dependent on technology. Um, not just software systems like sas, but like within the tractor systems, connected systems they can't basically get out of if they're buying something new. Right. So they become dependent on technology. But what they perceive themselves as is What Dan said, the guy who can fix their own weld, you know, weld something back onto the back of the tractor to get things fixed. And there's this increasing disconnect, um, between what they perceive they are and what in reality they're using. And I wish they would recognize the importance of technology instead of ignoring it and then take hold of it just like they did with all the other cooperative services and say, I'm not going to wait for somebody else to bring me a black box that I'm going to hate five years from now. I'm going to get together with 1,000 other farmers and we're going to say, you know what? We're going to make a piece of technology that we want for us. We're going to invest in it, and then we're going to control it. That's what I'd like to see. But if you talk to my dad and brother, they're too damn busy doing other things. So I'm like, look, uh, you are the tip of the iceberg, guys. When you look at the supply chain, you have this perception. You're making all this food. I'm feeding the world. How many times have I heard that? I'm feeding the world. You're not feeding the world. Guy that combine, that does 2,000 acres in two, three weeks, right? That's feeding the world. You put a dude in it and you went up and down the field. The guy in Germany who made all the equipment and the technology to make that combine as efficient as he did, that guy's actually feeding the world. So you better get control of that technology if you want to continue to have a role in this ecosystem.

Speaker B: I can't wait to show your dad and your brother. You should like, this is going to be great.

Speaker C: Yes. I'll give you their email. Oh, wait, he doesn't have an email because he doesn't believe in technology.

Speaker B: Oh, man.

Speaker C: Zepped on the tractor.

Speaker B: Anything that you want to add to

Speaker C: that, I think it's covered.

Speaker B: I love it. Well, um, man, there's. There's so many, like, uh, there's so many just interesting dynamics, like in the ag tech industry. And I think it will be really interesting to see how that unfolds, like, in the coming years. Right? Because it really is that case of, like, you know, I love, like, I love tractors. You know, I grew up. I grew up a few miles away from, you know, where Dan grew up, right? And it's like, you know, there's gps, there's like, there's tracking, like, there's so much of that technology where it is kind of that like slow thing of like, I don't, I don't know that they did even realize like that they are in a tech industry. Right? And yeah, pretty much every industry, you know, we like to say a lot of the time that like pretty much every company is a tech company when you think about it, right. Even a Google spreadsheet is a piece of technology. Right? So, um, yeah, I mean it'll be cool to see how that, that journey just unfolds. But um, I really appreciated the time to time today and just diving into this like, very interesting, like you know, part of the industry that is, it's important on a macro economic scale to continue to solve some of these problems. So um, thanks for sharing that guys and I hope we can do this again.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was fun.

Speaker B: We'll have to get you fired up about your dad and your brother again.

Speaker C: Sorry.

Speaker B: That was good. But yeah, where can people find our sci? Yeah.

Speaker A: So we're on the web. Our psi.net is our website. Or you uh, can email us at infoursci O R S C I.

Speaker B: Perfect. Well, cool. Well thanks so much guys and uh, we'll be back with more um, in the ag tech space, uh, on our innovation series. And uh, thanks for watching.

Speaker C: It.