Using Learning Technology to Enhance Business Strategy with Brendan Noud

Speaker A: This podcast is powered by shockingly different leadership. The go to firm companies trust when needing to uplevel their leadership development, improve their HR operations, realign their workforce infrastructures and increase their capacity to handle business critical people initiatives. Check out our world class experts@soundingly different.com and see why SDL should be your number one ally to help your HR learning and talent functions become future ready today.

Speaker B: So, ah, a learning management system, or LMS for short is the platform that companies use to deliver, uh, online training. Um, so if anyone has taken an online course, um, health and safety infosec, whatever it might be, the platform you log into to take that course, uh, uh, and the tracks that you did it and send you your reminders and award your certificates and things like that, that's a learning management system.

Speaker A: Blended workforces are one of the hottest talent strategies today where employers are using a mix of traditional employees with external resources like independent contractors, coaches, consultants, vendors and technology solutions, all ah, in order to enhance competitiveness, ensure cost flexibility and expedite business goals. But how are the successful companies infusing blended workforces into their business strategy? And what are the critical success factors and pitfalls to avoid during implementation? And on the flip side, what does it really take for suppliers to improve their chances of finding and landing contract opportunities? The devil is in the details, my friends. I'm your host, Karen Farrell Rhodes and it's time to get smarter about blended Workforces at Work. Hello my superstars, this is Karen and welcome to another episode of the Blended Workforces at Work podcast. We are absolute thrilled to have on today's show, Brendan Naud. And Brendan is the CEO and co founder of uh, Learn Upon. And Learn upon is a learning management system that helps create, deliver and track training for employees, customers, partners or members. And Learn upon is an absolutely fantastic example of how, uh, the technology arm of blended workforces help companies upscale talent to get work done. So welcome to the podcast, Brendan.

Speaker B: Thanks Karen. Um, delighted to be on your show. Uh, so yeah, thanks for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker A: Same here, same here. And I told you right in our pre meeting, I'm a super fan of Learn Upon. I have been following you for a bit and I personally um, appreciate um, what a rich platform it is and how it helps, um, um, companies and clients of all types. And we'll delve into that during our conversation. But before we do so, we always learn to learn, always love to learn just a tad bit more about our guests. So for just as much as you feel comfortable, will you please Give us a sneak peek into your life outside of work.

Speaker B: Thanks, Karen. Yeah. Um, so I'm from Ireland, so from the accent you'd probably get that. Uh, I live in a small village about an hour outside Dublin and outside of work with two small k. Uh, uh, daughter is six and uh, my son Connor, who's four. Um, so they keep me busy. Um, and uh, yeah, lots of, they're getting into their sports now so they have their swimming and their football and uh, all that kind of good stuff. So I spend a lot of my weekends, um, being a part time taxi driver, uh, uh, and then evenings helping out with homework and things like that. So. Yeah. And then myself love sports myself, so it's great. I'm trying to indoctor the two, the two kids, uh, into that so that they have the same love of sports as I have.

Speaker A: Oh, well, I can appreciate that because my, I kind of grew up as a tomboy. My dad loved sports and I love sports. So that was being, you know, the thing that made me cool with the guys when I was getting older, that I was actually a girl that knew a lot about sports, that could talk, you know, about different types of teams and um, uh, it sounds fantastic. And I'm just curious because you're in Dublin right now. Um, what's the weather like there? Because we're having a major heat wave in the US right now.

Speaker B: Yeah. So here it's at the moment typical Irish weather. It's like kind of cloudy, overcast. Um, we had an Irish heat wave uh, the last couple of weeks, but it's nowhere near what you guys are having in the east coast at the moment. Um, we were hitting about like 70, ah, 75, which is. That's, that's. Yeah, it's perfect weather. Um, but so we've had for the last few weeks and so hopefully it'll continue over the summer. Ah, hopefully.

Speaker A: So, uh, well, I'm waiting for it to break here and it has been really nice up to this week and so. But it is the kickoff of summer so it's to be expected. But anyhow. Well, thank you so much for sharing Brendan, and let's um, pivot a bit and let's uh, talk more about your experience in Learner Pond. But before we go there, I would love to if you could, um, maybe start with a few highlights or milestones of your professional career and what led you to become the co founder and CEO of Learn Upon.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, I started my career, um, with one of the big five consultancy firms here in Ireland. Um, kpmg which was a great grounding actually. Coming out of college I knew I wanted to do something in business uh, but wasn't exactly sure where to specialize. So um, going in as a graduate consultant uh into KPMG was um, a great learning curve for the first uh, five years of my career. Um, and from there I moved what my move into E Learning and um, lmss. And where I ended up meeting my co founder with Learn Upon DES was I, I joined a company called WBT Systems who are one of the early learning management systems again an Irish company. And um, I spent eight years there. Uh, I became great friends with des. Um, and my passion for online learning L and D in general just really kind of sparked from there. Uh, I'm now over 20 years in the space. I love it. It's constantly changing and it is uh, and it was a great opportunity. Got to work with some, spent a lot of time in the States working with some great uh, companies on site really getting to understand their business and how they were thinking about um, learning programs and the learning technology to support those programs. And uh, that was I guess the stepping stone into and DEZ thinking would we leave and, and start our own company? Which we did in 2012 with Learn Upon. And uh, and that's been an amazing journey over the last 13 years and counting. Um, on the one hand it's been fun. So yeah we've uh, it's been fun. We've, we've gone from the two of us, uh, we started at the kitchen table back in 2012 and today we've over 300 people globally, um, with, with offices in, in Dublin, Philadelphia, Salt Lake, Sydney, um, Belgrade and Serbia. So it's uh, it's been a really great journey and yeah, get to work with amazing people every day and get to work with amazing customers and uh, so yeah that's kind of the stepping stones. And yeah it feels like even though we're at this a while we're still, we always say we're only getting started. We've so much more work to do

Speaker A: and I can imagine because you all have done so much in that short period of time, uh, it's simply amazing. Now no, I did not do Learn upon justice. So would uh, you mind sharing with our listeners just a little bit more about um, what an LMS is because some of them may not understand and just a few highlights on how you all serve your clients and customers.

Speaker B: Yeah. So ah, a Learning Management System or LMS for short is the platform that companies use to deliver uh, online training. Um, so if anyone has taken an online course, um, health and safety, infosec, whatever it might be, the platform you log into to take that course, uh, and the tracks that you did it and send you your reminders and award your certificates and things like that, that's a learning management system. Um, so it's a really interesting space. Um, when myself and Des started we were really focused on ease of use and that learner experience. Um, a lot of the solutions were kind of difficult to use at the time and we were keen to build one that had a great learner experience. Very easy for our customers to get up and running and be able to configure their learning programs and personalized learning programs, uh, across their business. And I guess the angle we took on it as well is not just about training internal employees but also external audiences. So a lot of our customers use Learn upon for customer education. So training their customers on their products and services, helping to onboard them efficiently, um, and make sure that they understand how to use their products, um, um, really well. Um, and we also do partner, um, onboarding and enablement, uh, and work with member organizations like professional bodies and associations and sporting bodies who use Learn upon to deliver CPD training to their members or to train coaches and volunteers. So we work with the likes of USA Football for example, um, which a lot of people, if you gone to take your training, ah, to be, to coach your, your kids team, um, and you do that through USA Football. That's, that's delivered through Learn Upon.

Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. I know you have tons, um, of clients. I think it was over 1500 or 1600 clients, um, across the globe. But I will say for me, um, you know, being in the human capital consulting and advisory space, I do know that there's a ton of LMSs out there. Um, and I'm curious, um, what do you all think is your differentiator, um, that you bring to the table versus a lot of the other competitors?

Speaker B: Yeah, so you're right. There's a lot of different vendors out there. Um, I think the thing we really focus in is that partnership with our customers, um, so really understanding um, what the business goals are trying to achieve. And so from a customer success perspective, um, uh, we assign a customer success manager to our customers and we put a result strategy in place so we see ourselves more than just a technology piece of software, but actually a true partner, um, and thought leader for our customers and in some ways an extension of their team. So that's a big focus and I think the other area for us is that idea of being able to train multiple audiences uh, on our platform. Um, so having different environments for your employee training versus your customer training or your partner training and to be able to do that easily, to share content across those, but also to delegate the responsibility across your organization. Um, and I think the other side, we've constantly innovated and really continue to invest in the platform. So today obviously AI is really important and we're building that into our platform to just remove the admin overhead where we can um, and we also think about um, embedded learning. So we have a product we recently released called Learn Upon Anywhere that allows our customers to embed training into different websites and third party apps, um, which again all around that idea of reduce the friction, make it really easy for learners to find the information, um, or learning they're looking for and to consume it um, uh, with a great learner experience.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I totally understand. Um, I have so many questions in my head, I'm trying to think of the next one I'd love to ask. Well, let's start here. Um, AI is the buzzword these days. Although I always tell people AI has been around forever. Um, you know, coming from Microsoft, you know we infused it into you know, our software back, back in the day and you know it's just you know, on everybody's top of mind right now just because of the great advancements. Um, but how do does learn upon see AI, um helping um, be its platform or not? I mean what is your take on how you're infusing AI into, into your lms?

Speaker B: Yeah, so it's definitely the buzzword for sure. And um, even though as you say it's been around for a long time but has uh, has totally exploded uh, in the last couple of years with ChatGPT and just uh, yet the whole focus on the area from our perspective, like we see AI as another tool that we can leverage in our platform and we're kind of very conscious on where we bring it into our platform. We don't want to just put AI everywhere for the sake of it, but actually that um, we're leveraging AI as just another tool like all the technology in our platform that it can have a real impact for our customers. So we think about it from two sides. One, the administration side M. And how can we put time back in our administrators day, whether that's helping them to configure their learning paths, um, easier if they're building course content like exams that they can do that easily leveraging AI and then validate it and add their own spin to it. But just take some of the manual overhead away and then the other side is from that learner experience. Um, so we have an AI, um coach that we release, a reflection coach. So again just to reinforce learning when someone finishes a course, um, we can see the impact. If you kind of um, nudge people with follow up questions and what they learned from a course, they're going to remember that better, they're going to apply it better in their day to day. Um, so yeah, everywhere we think we look at all the opportunities for AI across the platform. Um, but we always bring it back to will it add real value to our customers. And then we want to be very responsible in how we leverage our customers data, uh, and making sure that they understand that we're doing that in a responsible way which is important as well. And that's the feedback we're getting from our customers, um, that they want to know that they're working with a partner that uh, is leveraging AI in the right way and very mindful of their data.

Speaker A: That makes sense. And you know, you all are, although you are a global organization, you're based, you know, in Dublin. Um, but um, a lot of your customers, not all, but a lot of your customers are in the US which has its own crazy workforce dynamic. So I'm curious how as you grew learn upon how tough was it to have um, a significant customer base in a country other than yours. Um, because I mean, you know we've been flattening the world forever, right? Technology has done that. But um, sometimes there are challenges, um, you know, with different cultures and expanding business. So I'm curious um, how that journey, that part of your journey has been.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, like we went because of our previous experience. Myself and Des had spent a lot of time working with US customers in our previous uh, jobs. Um, right from day one we just wanted to go sell, learn upon into the US and break into the US so I think our first 15 customers were all North America before we got our first customer in Ireland. And that's continued true to this day. We're very international. I think 98% of our customers are international with about over 70% in the US so the US is our core market. But it's certainly when you're a two person company company, uh, it brings its challenges. Um, we were very passionate about the customer support side of things from from day one we felt that could be a real differentiator for us. So we got some early customers in Australia and the two of us did 247 support between us. Like, we literally did a shift through to the middle of the night and handed over to the other person. Um, when we had, we were bootstrapped for quite a while. So when we had enough customers and revenue to hire, we, we met our first hiring customer support, um, to ease some of that load. And, and we've continued that. So we've done 247 support from the start and we've got quite sophisticated. We have a great team now that I follow the sun model, um, from Dublin hands over to our team in Philadelphia to our team in, uh, Phoenix through to our team in Sydney. Um, but in the early days, the Dublin team did a lot of that. So they. We had to. When we were hiring people, we were very upfront, uh, in the support team. We were like, every second week you'll be working nights. Um, so one, uh, week you were doing 9 to 6pm the second week you were doing 5pm to midnight, uh, and not potentially not getting home until 1am and the team were super. They bought into the vision of what we were looking to build. And I think so it allowed us where all our, most of our customers in the U.S. our idea was if someone opened a ticket, we could answer it in five minutes as if we were down the corridor from them. And we delivered on that promise. Um, and so as we scaled, it's got easier. Um, but it was something we had to be thoughtful from to start. We had to make sure we had a team that kind of saw the value in what we were trying to build, um, and the relationship we wanted to have with our customers. So it's, uh. Yeah, and I think the other side, I think, are U.S. customers. And they, I think they liked the novelty of working with an Irish team as well. Um, so that was the positive. And, uh, yeah, the first, the early customers were hard to get, but we very quickly built a reputation as being a great partner and it got easier. And today we've over a thousand customers in the US and new ones signing up every day.

Speaker A: That's amazing. I'm just curious, how did you get your first customers? I mean, who did you target? Was it the, uh, HR talent development teams or was it the CEOs? I mean, who was your. Who did you target and how did you close the deal?

Speaker B: Yeah, in the, in the early days, we focused on training companies, professional training companies actually, who were looking to sell and deliver their content to their clients. And if their clients didn't have an lms, it kind of was a barrier to making that sale. So Learn upon worked really well. We had a great feature set for that and we had a ah, an E commerce storefront. Um, so we, we were very good at content, content marketing. Um, we built a really good blog, very popular, put a lot of high value content out there which drove traffic to our website and that kind of got those early conversations and uh, then we kind of, we did all our sales remotely um, over zoom. But once we could get the leads in, show them the platform, let them know what it would be like to work for us, we started to convert customers. So a lot of online marketing, content marketing was the initial driver. Um, and then over time we started doing conferences and events and, and today um, for North America we've a um, sales uh, team in Salt Lake City. So we've about 50 people there now. So that makes things a little easier.

Speaker A: I'm sure it does. But I bet those early years it was in, although it was kind of hard because you're you know, managing um, different time zones and sleep was probably not at a premium. But um, listening in on what were the issues or questions that your customers had gave a ton of data and insight for improvements. Um, you know, how to improve the customer experience overall. And for you all focusing on a bid in the US and you know how the US uh personalities can be, they demand high quality at all times. Right. Um, I think that probably was one of your differentiating factors as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the fact that we were uh, like agile and quick and we could take requirements um, from our customers that we were hearing regularly and quickly turn them around into the platform. And so it allowed us to evolve the platform um, very quickly over our journey and it's continued that continues true to this day. We're never stopped. There's always more to do and we have great customers who are always engaging with us and telling us what they'd like to see next. So ah, it's a great, great process.

Speaker A: Yeah, it makes sense. Um, you know we always love to try to give some tips to our listeners as well. And um, I'm just curious you know, what advice would you give businesses and companies who are starting the process of um, upgrading or up leveling their investments in um, learning technology? Um, any tips on approach or things to um, look out for or how to screen because there are so many LMS companies out there. Um, any advice you have as they start those journeys?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think like uh, I would say really understand what it is you're looking to achieve. So who, who those audiences are you're looking to train and what kind of workflows and features you need because there's a lot of. I think you can go out and get templates on web like for RFPs that have like 3 or 400 requirements and you can get bogged down in that. Um, if you start going through a checklist of requirements, um, I don't think it'll necessarily land you with the right partner. I, um, think it's better to step it up and go what's the business goals? What types of training? Who are we trying to train? And then from there you can work out on actually what's the feature set we need here so you don't end up with blows uh, in the partner that you select. And I think the other thing we see a lot is to make sure and think about the learner experience. Because if that's, and to test that out and try it as you're trying out different vendors because if that's not um, a great experience. Well firstly people won't want to consume the content if they have a bad initial experience or they won't complete the courses, uh, uh, and training programs. But secondly, you'll end up with a lot of questions and a big support overhead. And that's something where we focus a lot on with our customers that we can help like, you know, have very minimal questions coming through for our customers from our learners using the platform and that allows them to focus on building out those programs that have a real impact. Um, and I think the third area that's always important is just those integration points, um, from Learn upon. We focused on that from the early days to make sure we integrate with all the popular HRIS systems, with all the webinar tools, Zoom teams, um, Google Meets etc. Um, integrate with your CRM like whether it's Salesforce or HubSpot if you're doing customer training. And to do that easily out of the box is a massive time saver and just allows you to. If your learning management system integrates well with your other systems, the data and the insights you get is really powerful, um, because the learning data on its own is okay, but the real insights come when you combine it with data from your CRM, for example or your customer support platform or whatever it might be. That's how you can actually start to see the impact of your learning programs and the ROI that you're getting from your investments.

Speaker A: M what is um, one area of concern or risk that you all are seeing in the LMS industry, what is something that's always top of mind that you're trying to keep your tabs on or thumbs on. Um, you're looking to grow.

Speaker B: I think it's to know there's a lot of, as we said, there's a lot of change in this space. There's new waves and fads that come all the time over the last 20 years. Um, every kind of 18 to 24 months, you see a new wave, um, of this is the direction L and D leaders are going and how they think about their programs. Um, and so I think from our perspective, we've always tried to be really thoughtful about those and go, okay, which ones do we want to, to jump on board and invest in? Um, whether it's like skills or AI, um, learning in the flow of work and which ones we might want to maybe not invest in or sidestep a little bit. Um, you know, a couple of years ago lrss were popular, but now they've kind of, you know, not, not don't come up as much. And there's other, there's other ones like that, so we don't get them all right. But I think it's something that you need to be conscious of and particularly if you're, um, embarking on a journey, um, as a new L and D leader, maybe looking to put your first, uh, learning platform in place is to make sure and to do your research and not to get too swayed by. Okay, everyone is talking about this because in 12 months time there might not be, you know, so, um, that's, that's the challenge. And I mean, it's also what makes the space really interesting. And, and it's one of the reasons myself and Des, we're at this as long as we are, because you've no time to get bored. There's always new things to be thinking about in making sure that, uh, learning programs are impactful and delivered in the right way.

Speaker A: You know, that brings up, um, you know something. My, um, industry background is very varied, but probably over half of my experience has been in the tech space and supporting tech companies. And there's an interesting tension, if you will, between when, you know, account reps or salespeople, um, talk with their clients. And then of course, the clients have a whole feature list of requests that they would love to integrate, uh, into the basic system. Um, while the engineers say, hey, we need the lead time to be able to do that. And we have a whole other list of priorities. And sometimes to your point, um, fads may come and go. By the time it's ready to integrate it, it may or may not be relevant. So I'm just curious of your, um, insight or thoughts about the interesting tension between customer requests and then being able to fulfill them.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question and it's definitely a tension. It's always a challenge. Um, we have, like, from our side, we take inputs from our sales team. They're obviously at the front line trying to close deals all the time. But also from our customer success and customer support teams, because our existing customers, it's really important they're successful on the platform. You also have analysts, um, out there, and we take input from what they're seeing and trends, and then we have our competitors and what are they doing and what moves are they making. So when you blend all that together, you can't do everything. You have to focus and figure out where, where you want to be best in class. And that's something we spent a lot of time over the last 12 months or so really zoning in on.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: uh, what we would see as our ideal customers, our sweet spot customers where learn upon is a really strong offering. And when it comes to prioritizing what we build next, that's what we keep asking ourselves. Will this help our ideal customers? So those looking to do employee customer member training, and if yes, okay, let's put it on our roadmap. But if it's something that's outlined outside of that kind of suites, where we're getting much better at kind of saying no and explaining to a prospect, um, why we're maybe not the right partner for them. Because at the end of the day, we want to have our customers with us for years like our early customers are with us 12, 13 years. That's something we're very proud of. And, uh, so as new opportunities come in, um, as much as we want to win as many as we can, we're also, I think, uh, quite good at saying, you know, in this particular case, we're not the best solution. And maybe you should look at these vendors instead. We think they'd be a better fit.

Speaker A: And that's very, very courageous to do. And I've, you know, learned that also being you know, head of my own firm there, you know, all money is not good money, right? And you want to make sure your clients are extremely happy. And if you know that you're not maybe the right fit for them, um, because they have certain needs or requests, uh, that may not be ideal for your platform, it's Great to take care of them first and I think they appreciate it versus going down a road. Um, because to Be honest, listeners, LMSs are not cheap, they're not $25. It's a big investment for a company. So once they make a decision on a vendor, it is a true, true partnership, um, in getting it launched and implemented and leveraged, um, and used in a very meaningful way for the business. Wouldn't you say, Brendan?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And the way we think about it as well is while we might not be the right fit for a particular opportunity today, the decision makers there, people in L and D, they move regularly in their career and they may move to another company where we are a great fit and we just want to make sure it's a good experience. Um, so even though we mightn't be the right fit for the opportunity today, we want to try and add value, point them in the right direction. We know the space really well and if there's a vendor out there that will be a better fit, we'll direct them towards that. And maybe three, four years down the line that person will have moved, um, to a different company and they're again looking for a new learning management system. And hopefully if learn upon is the right fit, that we'll be top of mind, they'll remember the experience they had with us and we didn't try and sell them a solution that wouldn't actually fit their needs.

Speaker A: No, that makes a ton of sense. Well, Brendan, before we let you go today, we, you know, we always have to, um, ask our guests our signature question. And for my newer listeners out there, um, our company did research on high performing individuals and companies and what it takes to really, um, be at the top of your game. And long story short, there were like seven main buckets that came out of our research. But we asked our listeners which one of the seven really pop for them? While all seven are equally as important and you use them at different times, usually there's one that really resonates with our guests. And so Brendan was so kind to share that having a drive for results really resonated with him. And the way we define that is, you know, having a drive for results is all about being very, uh, tenacious, about ensuring your end goal is achieved, even if you have to pivot along the way. But it's all about hopefully doing your best to achieve all goals and objectives. So curious minds want to know, Brandon, why did drive for results really resonate with you?

Speaker B: Yeah, Karen? Well, I think as we mentioned earlier, I think all seven definitely on different levels, resonated. Uh, but to pick one, I think the one and probably from our conversation uh so far probably comes through like in Learn upon we're so focused about results, results, um, not just for ourselves as a company which in a very competitive space. I think from the start we've always set very clear KPIs and goals and we've worked hard to achieve those. We communicate very widely across the business with all our team what those goals and results are. So everyone is bought into that journey. But the other side of that is our approach with our customers, um, putting a result strategy in place with them right at the start, really understanding the business drivers and how their learning programs can feed in to deliver those uh, business results. Be that employee retention, you know, uh, customer growth, uh, member engagement, whatever those results might be. We want to tailor a result strategy to them. And then every time we have a quarterly check in or whatever it might be, we're bringing up that result strategy to see if um, uh, our customers are achieving those goals and what we need to do to make sure that they are successful. So when I, when I read your the seven tactics Drive for results definitely popped out as something that we think about a lot here in Learn upon and I think about on a personal level as well.

Speaker A: That's amazing. Well you know Brendan, you all do some fantastic things at Learn Upon. Like I said, I'm a fan, um, from afar, um, and I personally thank you all for uh, being in the human capital space and knowing how important um, upskilling and development is to companies near and far. Um, having such a platform um, that really um, helps customers achieve what they can for their clients is just amazing and I wish you all continued success um, at Learn Upon. Now we will have all information about your bio and links and things in our show notes. But I always love to give our guests a little air time um, for the listeners to know where to find you. So if they were interested in learning more about Learn upon and you um, where could they um, reach out?

Speaker B: Um, so the best place for information on Learn upon is to go to our website uh, www.learnuponuh.com and um for me LinkedIn is probably where you get me best uh, at Brendan Nowad. So if you search be great to connect with any of your listeners.

Speaker A: Sounds good. And listeners now it is spelled N O U D just so you know. So definitely um, look him up um while you're after you finish this episode and um, and check out Learn upon because they're They're a fantastic company. Well, thank you so much Brendan for your gift of time today. You've been wonderful.

Speaker B: Likewise, Karen, thanks for having me on your show. It's great to chat to you today.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And thank you to listeners for the gift of your time as well. Um, as I always say, we know there are literally millions of other podcasts you could be listening to out there and we do not take your patronage lightly at all. All that we ask is that you like and subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform of choice. And be sure to share with just one friend so that we can all be smarter about Blended Workforces at Work. Thanks a ton and see you next week. Well, that's our show for today. Thank you again for listening to the Blended Workforces at Work podcast. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at Blended Workforces at Work. You can also follow me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram or YouTube by searching for the name Karen Rhodes with Karen being spelled K A R a N. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your favorite podcast. Platformer Choice this podcast has been a production of shockingly different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people talent development and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on demand contract, fractional or project basis. Huge thanks to the SDL production and editing team for a job well done. Bye for now.