Is Your Website Working While You Sleep? w/ Silvia Del Corso

Speaker A: This is the Halo Effect Hospitality Stories with Ashley and Michael Donald. This podcast is about people, their stories and why these make hospitality so special. Every week we'll share insights from specialists across the industry. And whether it's just the two of us or we're joined by a guest, we'll always aim to make it valuable, engaging and fun. Welcome to the Halo Effect Foreign. Hello and welcome back to the Halo Effect. Today we are delighted to welcome Silvia Del Corso, the founder of Pink SEO, an award winning SEO agency with a reputation for doing things very differently. Pink SEO works with businesses across some of the most high stakes reputation sensitive sectors, medical, legal, financial. And their approach is built on something refreshingly simple. No jargon, full transparency, and the results that show up as genuine growth in the client's business. Um, Sylvia has built an agency that consistently wins awards, operates without fixed term contracts and earns five star reviews for all of their work. Um, Sylvia, it's wonderful to have you on the show. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you all guys. Thank you for having me m here. It's uh, an immense pleasure and an honor and yeah, a joy to be here with you.

Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you Sylvia and it's lovely to see you as always. And we met, um, I was just thinking back to 2018, 2003. We first met at the Best Businesswoman Awards in London. Um, and it was just so lovely. I was with my mum, I remember, um, and he came sort of dashing over and we'd sort of connected online and, and we've stayed in touch ever since then and you've always been a wonderful support whenever I've maybe needed advice on some kind of quite technical, um, digital aspects. And we've um, co hosted webinars. So it's wonderful to welcome you onto the Halo Effect today. So thank you so much. Um, so we loved when we kind of open any episode is just I suppose to kind of find a little bit more about your journey. So Sylvia, take us back. You grew up in Tuscany, you spent time working in the travel and tourism industry. Um, please tell us about your journey and what brought you to London and eventually setting up Pink SEO.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, thank you. And I think the origins are something that kind of also connected us a little bit because, yeah, I started from tourism AI in Tuscany on the seaside. It's like the main, main, uh, source, uh, of economy. And uh, I was working in an inbound, uh, touristic agency and then kind of the Internet came. So which means that I'm very old. I shouldn't have said it. It Sounds like I'm. But uh, yeah, that was the thing. So the user behavior changed uh, drastically. People weren't uh, buying their holidays on catalogs in travel agencies anymore. They were buying on their own from the living room online, um, without needing intermediaries and things uh, printed that we used to spend long hours at night checking. Everything printed was correct, everything changed. And it was more an individualistic kind of uh, um, booking behavior. So I was made redundant. And uh, I saw a potential in this Internet that was appearing. I said there is something. And uh, it was an exciting time because uh, it was the first times of uh, the various marketing disciplines, uh, social media, um, email marketing, Google Ads, BBC, SEO. So at the same time my husband who's a full stack developer, wanted to start freelancing. So uh, we kind of joined forces uh, and we set up our family led agency. Husband and wife. You kind of know the feeling.

Speaker C: You kind of know the feeling.

Speaker B: So yeah. And um, we were basically operating in tandem. He was building beautiful things online and I was marketing them, uh, uh, using all the various tools. At the time we were a full uh, um, digital agency doing everything. But my favorite was SEO. Yeah because it's numbers based and I kind of see the word better if I see a number associated. If you tell me something is beautiful, I need to understand if it's uh, I don't know, 47 or 96. I need to see how it measures, I need to see um, values. So when I started CS CEO, every choice that you do is not based on opinions, it's based on numbers. So you choose a keyword because uh, this is how popular it is, how difficult it is with a number. You see that something works. Uh, because these are the numbers of improvement. So it gives me reassurance. I see numbers. I understand, uh, it works or not. It's more scientific than based on ideas.

Speaker A: Takes some of the emotion out of it as well. Which can send us in all sorts of different directions, can't it? Like oh, I love that color. But if the evidence isn't there to say it actually works, there is still

Speaker B: a lot of creativity involved, don't get me wrong. Because uh, it goes hand in hand with content. Uh, and uh, now more than ever you need your human in that and your creativity and your spark. But at the same time there is an amber behind that. So um, what happened uh, back in Tuscany is that unfortunately the dream broke because reality kind of squashed it. So uh, the economic situation wasn't working and the agency wasn't really um, able to thrive. So we decided we need to take the big move. Um, even if it was scary because we were on the seaside of Tuscany and it was pretty nice. Um, my husband was getting job offers abroad and uh, he went through all the stages just as a joke, uh, and he got an incredible job offer and we couldn't believe it. So it was in London and in two weeks we packed the house, the kids, the cat, everything and we went to live into London and he had a job. I didn't. So I said okay, now what do I do? I have this translatable skill, transferable uh, skill which is SEO. Uh, it's still in demand here. It still works the same because Google algorithm works everywhere in the same way. Uh, but this time I want to specialize and do one thing only because it, if you do one thing 200 times you are better than if you do 200 things just once you become really knowledgeable, uh, and you know what to expect, you know what happens. So I will do one thing only. I would turn down every other kind of uh, inquiry that I might receive. I will only stick to SEO. And that's what I've done. So fast Forward now it's 10 years. I'm celebrating on the 5th of July. 10 years since we came here to live.

Speaker C: Congratulations.

Speaker B: Ah, biggest, uh, now we, we are all of us double uh nationals. Um, so we've got the double nationality. That was just for us to feel like we are really um, members. We really, we love the way things are going. So yeah, that was the change. Uh, and I started on my own freelancing, doing SEO as cheap as one can get when you know nobody and you need to get a reputation and reviews and ah, word of mouth and then slowly, slowly upping. And now I've got a team of seven uh, employees paye. So yeah, things have been developing still only doing SEO.

Speaker C: That's wonderful. I love um, that you turned the, you know, the challenge of and sort of overcoming that redundancy and into an opportunity. And I love that you have been so bold since the beginning and just said look, this is what I want to specialize in. This is, this is where there's a gap and I'm going to do this really well. And then you've built a team and a wonderful portfolio of clients. So uh, congratulations to you because I think when you second guess often and I think when we started Halo we um, kind of came into it, you know, we very much a sort of hospitality background as you know and I think we thought oh well you know, we can transfer our skills into any sector, really. We could do a bit of retail, we could do a bit of this, a bit of that. Um, yeah, we're, you know, massive kind of client pool potential. And then I think we realized that, you know what? I think for us it was about the passion and our connections and our experience. We just kept coming back to hospitality and then we kind of, you know, almost give ourselves permission that actually this is our sector, this is our niche, we love it, and this is where this is our field of play. And I think once we realize that, you know, that the, the business has gone from strength to strength. And it's also to your earlier point around turning work down, which is really scary to say no to stuff. I think particularly as you're starting out, you don't want to miss anything. And I'm terrible for getting fomo, but now I'm like, no, this, this. I'm sorry. You know, I think, um, you know, we might not be the right partner for you, but let me recommend you, you know, you know, somebody that could help you. So I feel much more, yeah, comfortable with that. But, yeah, well done for just really identifying that from the beginning and sticking with it. And look at the, the testament of building a team. Um, so, yeah, well, well done with that.

Speaker A: Sylvia, you mentioned this. You worked in, you started working travel and tourism. I love the idea that you're staying up late trying to get all those little details absolutely correct when it was all done very manually, but. But I guess that was because that sort reputation is so important, a little mistake in that. And then suddenly people, they have no idea who I am and what is, what's going on. So that trust and reputation is so key and it sort of affects repeat business and how you're seen in the industry. But we always talk about these sort of transferable skills that come from hospitality, travel and tourism. How do you think, though, that kind of experience has shaped how you now run Pink SEO?

Speaker B: Well, I reckon there is definitely you have a point here. It has impacted, uh, even if you don't realize, uh, there are some things that you learn, particularly when you're very young, and that kind of builds you up. Uh, so it's uh, what Maya Angelou was saying, that people forget, uh, sometimes what you say, what you do, but they don't forget how you make them feel, feel. So, uh, it's that same thing that you see with tourism, for example. Uh, the reputation can make it or break it or make you. And, um, that you need to look after them properly and they, if they feel cared for then it's uh, it's not just a service, it's not just a business but it's uh, something that they want to, to deal with. And I think it stayed with me. And it started initially from listening to conversations. So um, speaking with prospects and listening to what they were saying and they were saying many that sometimes they were a little bit skeptical about SEO because they had strange kind of experiences, uh, and very common things that they were referring lots of jargon they couldn't understand, they were feeling a little bit patronized sometimes um, they were receiving reports, stuff that they couldn't understand. Um, so that was presented as success but they couldn't understand uh, and they couldn't sometimes even understand what was done for them. So it felt like something that wasn't clearly creating trust. So uh, and they were starker. So um, sometimes they would telling I would like to join but I'm stuck in a contract and I can't leave. And I said I would like to build something different. Since I'm building it, let me try and chart my way. So no jargon, everything explained. If you understand something you should be able to explain it uh, clearly. So everything should be particularly considering. You work with doctors, solicitors, lead people, people, they're really knowledgeable in their industries but they don't know much about, I don't know SEO and technical things and so on. So you need to explain things very clearly. So no jargon at all. Reports need to be clear and tell them exactly what you're achieving and why it matters. Uh, um, no fixed contracts. So they stay as long as uh, they fit the value. If they need a break, uh, we are happy to let them come back whenever it works. So it has created trust in the long term because they feel like you are on this side and not just somebody that's trying to get uh, something, you're trying to get something together.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think those, those um, certainly those fixed term contracts and I guess the trust goes both ways, doesn't it? Like you need, if you're going to focus so much on building trust you want it to go both ways. So but it's, but it's lovely to hear that you're kind of treating sort of professional services clients a little bit more like we would treat a guest. I mean the jargon point that you make is, is absolutely right. How many times I've seen a receptionist sort of start using oh, oh, do you want a DND M. What, what's a DND or you know, instead of a um, do not disturb or you know like these simple things that, that yes, when you're working amongst your colleagues you use all the time of course, um, but it doesn't, doesn't work when it's translated to people who don't hear those phrases all the time. And if you've simplifying it that way and it's just a great way of showing respect for people as well I think.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And love your point around you're working with specialists in their field whether it's financial services solicitors but your um, really sort of demonstrating how, how you're helping their business but just in a really clear and transparent way. Um, I know and you know in my role as a fractional marketing director working with lots of hotel groups we'll often be um, you know, working directly with various digital agencies and you know that landscape has shifted hugely in the, in the past like five years even. Um, and you know whilst I um, would class myself as a sort of marketeer that you know, works across so many different channels whether it's you know, pr, digital, social. So sometimes that kind of minutiae detail in a very fast moving digital environment you're you know having to kind of really work hard to maintain that knowledge and I think to have a partner that you work with that can just explain it in simple terms what does that mean? What does it mean for your business? Allowing you to make informed decisions around your overall strategy is so important because I've definitely sat in meetings where I've literally been bamboozled by jargon and like um, and metrics that I'm m like but what does that mean? Like how can I take action? What, what should I be doing here? Why is that result not what we expected or why is it better than we expected? How can we get more of that? So really love that approach because I think you know digital marketing and SEO specifically is, it is quite technical and the landscape has changed massively um, with AI as well. So yeah love, love that approach and I can certainly see why you've built that trust with your, with your clients and your network. Um, so sticking with the theme of trust um, and um, thinking about that in a kind of online environment, particularly with AI, um why has trust become such a critical factor in how businesses attract customers digitally and what does that mean for how a website needs to perform?

Speaker B: Oh yes, AI has changed uh, things uh, and it's like the biggest revolution that we've seen uh, in recent age and we haven't Seen the end of it, it's just starting. So it has created lots of good things and it has created some malpractice as well. So um, it's uh, easy to be used particularly, I don't know, creating content. Uh, people have quickly learned, uh, chatgpt, Create me a blog about click oh dang fast. So that is incredibly tempting, um, because if you see something that is fast and easy and you click something and it happens, you should think something isn't right because it's too fast and easy. But at the same time it's good. We all tend to try and believe uh, in magic items. So um, what this has created is inundation of uh, content online. Uh, that is just vanilla, it's beige, it doesn't have value. So um, there is really a deluge of content. And Google AI and all of these search tools, uh, they had to learn how to decide what's good and what's not, uh, because the majority of these things weren't moving the needle. It was just stuff that was reheated, uh, and republished somewhere else. So it doesn't bring any value, it doesn't bring anything new that I didn't know about. So that stuff does not rank. And there was uh, the Brighton SEO, one of the recent sessions, uh, actually a chart tracking content at scale and the decrease uh, in actually uh, traffic interactions and value that you get. So it doesn't uh, it doesn't damage you, but it doesn't, I mean it doesn't damage you until a certain level, but it doesn't help you at all. So um, trust that you were saying, uh, is basically uniqueness. So what you have to say, say on certain topics that nobody else knows, uh, and that only lives in your lived experience. So uh, your uh, experience, uh, as uh, a practitioner, as a business owner, all the years that you've lived certain situations, they have taught you something uh, which is unique. So your unique take on anything, uh, why you do certain things, you have that approach, you have that angle, why you. This is as personal as it gets, as unique as a fingerprint. And that inevitably creates trust. Uh, because you put yourself out there, you're not going the shortcut. Google is finding stuff that doesn't exist anywhere else. So if it's well optimized, that is an incredible uh, point of strength that you have. So yeah, it's a consequence uh, of uh, um, these uh, um, incredible amount uh, of content that has appeared. Uh, and now we realize that AI needs humans, humans need humans. So AI only stays in between like a connect or a connecting tool. Uh, and we trust human.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great analogy. The connecting tool. Um, we were at um, Atomicon earlier this week which was wonderful. We love going um, and it's all kind of very sales and marketing aimed at small businesses and I mean there was so much talk about AI and um, you know they were saying just because we can generate content at scale, um, you know we, we have to be m. We have to be unique to, to your point because that you know, social platforms, um, websites are just being flooded with this beige content and actually in order to stand out you have to have your voice, you have to have your opinion, you have to. I mean I think one of the presenters was like you've got to be a bit dangerous because AI is not going to be, you know, you have to be, you can put that slightly controversial viewpoint over, you can take a few risks. Um, yeah, and it's backed up by your knowledge that you've gained over you know, success, successive years in your career. Um, and they were talking about, yeah, you using AI very much, kind of, you know, kind of, yeah, sandwiching the, the human element at the beginning, at the end. And yes, the AI can do the sort of analytical and pull the data and kind of do. It's great at kind of sorting through vast amounts of data. But yeah, creating unique content in a brand voice, you know, it's just AI slop essentially. So yeah, it was a good reminder because I think you know, we're all so busy and there is that temptation as you say, it just you, oh that, that looks okay, but actually it is just okay. And if the search engines are not picking that up as a unique piece of content then you know your ranking is going to, you know, be affected. So yeah, it's great to hear the impact of that in kind of real terms from uh, a visibility perspective as well.

Speaker A: Um, Sylvia, how quickly can, can businesses sort of get involved in this? I mean I appreciate you could, you could write a blog that's just, just you. But how long does it take to start ranking? Sort of building that sort of digital trust? If you were starting from scratch, yeah,

Speaker B: it's a process and if you're starting from scratch it's inevitably longer. Uh, it all depends on the competitive field that you are in. So if you're trying to rank for something that is incredibly competitive, uh, it will take you longer. If you are fairly smart and you carve yourself a niche, uh, and you go for the low hanging fruit and you try to be Everything for everyone. But uh, you find your spot, then you attract your people and it's so much faster and easier even from an SEO point of view. It's the kind of long tail kind of thing, hyper niche. So uh, it's so much easier uh in terms of time, what everybody will uh, say the typical standard answer for how long it takes. Uh, it's usually what they say, six months to one year. But there is an incredible array of possible differences based on which platform you're using, how decent uh is the technical setup, uh what you're targeting. So you can be smart or you can try to aim for the uh, highest uh goals. But I would do that incrementally. I would start generating more leads, uh, and generating more traffic, generating more revenue and then you up the bar. And that is something that is much more achievable. But it depends also how you approach it. So SEO isn't one trick pony. There are various things that come into play. I used to call it a triangle coding content and links. So all of the technical side, all of the content side and all of the third party preferences, uh, um, that still applies. Um, so you kind of have to cover your basis decently well on all of them and that shortens the time uh if uh, you are doing your competitor analysis well and so on.

Speaker A: Yeah, I guess as well with, with the sort of the um, innovations with AI search. I guess anyone who's optimizing with that in mind also might have a, might have a bit of an advantage on someone who could probably speed up that process somewhat. Is, is that, have you sort of seen that yet or is there uh, has that sort of changed the way that we, that we, that we look at the impact you can have and

Speaker B: how quickly um, fast and good uh it's what can do is uh, definitely automate some of the admin time. So the time that it would take uh for you to pull uh um Excel files and analyze data and confront data that can be done much faster. Uh, um, but at the same time the implementation and the time for strategy and for analysis needs to be there. So you're basically saving time uh on low return activities. All kind of repetitive things to keep time for really in depth uh important strong analysis. Uh um, the completely trying to automate the thing won't get you good results. Because if it was that easy, if it was just a matter of automating everything, then everybody would do it and then all the criteria would go even higher. Because in uh, the end uh final goal is uh, to Give the best kind of quality, the best kind of result. So that's the reason why all the possible shortcuts. M. Sometimes they actually against the guidelines and can get people in trouble.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, it makes sense. And, and, and then I suppose in terms of um, you know, depending on where someone is in the kind of buying cycle and if I'm sort of thinking about maybe a hotel or a um, kind of hospitality venue, um, you know, there's so points that they may have interacted with this hotel or seen it online. So um, whether it's through um, you know, search, social, TripAdvisor, booking.com, you name it. But then um, when you've done all of that work to attract um, the you know, potential guests, let's say, um, and then you've eventually kind of got them on um, m. Your website, um, I suppose there can often be a huge gap between, you know, a website that looks impressive and one that actually generates inquiries and actually generates bookings. So in your um, experience and from the sectors that you work with, you know, what separates the two? The one that looks impressive and one that actually converts. Um, and maybe what do some owners not necessarily see when they're looking at their own website?

Speaker B: Uh, there is definitely a kind of division between the website owner and the website users. And the website owner usually builds the website for themselves to like because it's their own thing. I need to like it and I understand, but we need to kind of do uh, some role play and think, okay, is that helping them? Is that use useful? Uh, uh, because uh, there are so many examples, you can think, I don't know, difficult navigation, uh, or uh, messaging on content. Sometimes it's me, me, me, me and people don't want to hear everything focused about you as the business, uh, owner, uh, people, they are all tuned to the WIIFM radio, as they say, what's in it for me? So when we look at something, uh, we don't care if uh, I don't know your ethos, uh, and your philosophy and whatever, what's in it for me? How quickly can I book, uh, what will I get? Uh, uh, will it hurt if I'm getting a procedure, uh, or will you follow me correctly? So it's all nice and good, but what truly matters to people? So we need to put ourselves in their shoes, uh, and try to definitely empathize and uh, understand. So making it beautiful and making it useful shouldn't be two different things, but we need to definitely have it useful. Also from an SEO point of view, if you think, uh, um, of what are they searching for. So every page should have what we call a search intent. So when they reach this page, what are they searching for? What is their intention? Uh, is it it informational, is it trans. So they want to know is it transactional, they want to buy, is it so what is their intention? And you need to match it even in terms of words, so you know your key words, key phrases. We have tools that tell us exactly what people search in Google and we have Google database, uh, and uh, we know exactly what words people use. Uh, and then you can create a match. If people don't have these professional tools, they can rely on their experience. So you've been running a business for so long, you know, if you start jotting down, uh, ten minutes exercise, all of the frequently asked questions, all of the people that your guests, your clients, uh, always ask you, that's inevitably a hot topic because they always ask you that. So that is putting yourself in a position of being useful and helping them coming. And at the same time, that works like magic with AI as well. Because there's a question, there's an answer, it's on your site, it's ready to be picked up. Um, but it's not just that. It's trying to be useful and helpful even in the little details. I don't know if you think page speed, for example, uh, how it matters for SEO at the same time how it matters for people. So you have a super beautiful website with a mega video that takes forever to load. Um, and I don't even watch it because I need to get something done and it's really cute, but I don't need it. I need something done. And maybe I'm watching it, uh, from the bus, uh, standing up on my phone with a mini screen. Can we get something that is nice and works so if you see it, what, uh, helps the user, uh, helps the search engine as well. So it's really the same thing. If you're doing it only for Google, you got the point wrong. It should be always helping both of them at the same time.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I love that. And that sort of relevancy of um, serving up that information of where they are, whether they need maybe more information, particularly for something as you say, like medical procedure, financial information, they might need to look at that minutiae detail or somebody has come through. Okay, I've done all of that. I actually just need to get this sorted now and just get this booked and, and completed. So I think, um, you know, just. Yeah, Kind of navigating that journey in a really seamless way. Um, I know for um, a lot of our hotel clients and the FAQs are something that they've really um, started to build into their um, websites and you know, and then that helps if they've got chat bots and things on the just you know, with those very transactional questions that you know, that can just be taken care of. What time is check in, what time is checkout, you know, is it a pet friendly hotel, etc. Um, but then yeah, you're sort of ensuring, you're navigating that um, through the sort of inspiration right through to the conversion phase. Um, and yeah, you just reminded me actually when um, you were talking about personalizing that content and speaking to your guest. Um, there's a lot of um, we do a lot of CRM and create email templates, templates for our clients that communicate and even just small changes. Instead of you know, um, book, now you change it to book your stay. The conversion with just that slight tweak on the call to action button. Um, you know, because you've personalized it to that person. So just. Yeah, it's very small, um, adjustments can actually have quite a big impact in terms of the results. So yeah, love that.

Speaker B: Absolutely. It's all about what matters to them. So uh, with the hospitality business, they know, what are the things that are always asked about, uh, I don't know, family arrangements, dietary requirements, all of that. Uh, think preempt the question, kind of have it there and uh, you keep adjusting it, you keep adding more. It doesn't have to be eaten in stone, you can keep, keep building on it, uh, as you see that it serves uh, the audience.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Sylvia Pink, SEO, we know, we've mentioned it now it specializes in sort of that sort of those high trust and regulated sectors like medical, legal and financial. Um, what, what kind of difference? Is there a different way of looking at things when their sort of professional reputation is particularly important? Um, what does SEO look like in those situations?

Speaker B: These three industries, they form a sort of bucket, uh, that uh, the reason why you treat them together is because Google treats them together and they call them your money or your life. So what is at stake is really something heavy of a big weight because uh, there is a biggest, bigger responsibility. Mistakes have bigger consequences. Uh, because it goes about people's health, uh, it goes about people's um, legal um, situations and financial decisions. So everything that is uh, on this kind of uh, bucket of niches is scrutinized uh, more strictly by Google. These are the strict kind of um, um classes in school. It's where you really need uh, to be doing. But at the same time if you nail it, you are getting incredible results. So you need to know how to play by the rules. So like everything needs to be evidence based. Uh, you can't obviously um, make up anything. You need to have your ah, team experience the uh, medical copywriting, legal copywriting, things that we needed to build uh, over the years. But because uh, you're playing by higher kind of rules, uh, which doesn't mean that they don't apply to every business. Uh, but at the same time the necessity of having such strict regulations makes it um, inevitable that you have to be really scrupulous and careful because uh, um, accreditations, uh, and even trust with this kind of people, uh, practitioners need to be stronger. So um, it's uh, a sort of marketing that affects life changing decisions.

Speaker A: Of course. Yeah, I mean it, I think it's really good that you talk about that, sort of referencing things with actual facts. And one of the things that really bothers me sometimes in hospitality if someone says, oh we have the best restaurant in Whitley Bay in our hotel. Yeah, uh, according to your mum. I mean what are you basing this on? Um, so I think it's a good lesson there for, for everyone. I think anything you say should, should be, you should be able to back it up. But you're right, you know, you have a legal responsibility versus a moral responsibility. Maybe is the difference there, uh, makes

Speaker C: a little bit different and then just um, yeah, staying with trust. And your approach to um, running um, pink SEO. Um, we mentioned in the intro you offer no fixed term contract. So that's a little bit different perhaps where um, you know, some agencies have sort of those longer commitments. So um, I'd love to know kind of why you set out to sort of operate in that way.

Speaker B: Um, yes, of course. Well, I couldn't see any other way of doing it. I couldn't abide with anything else because uh, for me at least if I'm stuck in a corner, uh, the first thing that I try to do is find a way out. And I think that's the same for everyone. Uh, if instead you're given a choice, uh, giving people a choice, it's like giving people education when we're talking about explaining things in layman's terms. Uh, because you're empowering them about uh, uh, taking decisions and you're treating them like grown ups, they are able to take their own decisions uh, you're trusting them like an equal. Uh, and I'm telling you the situation and then it's your money and you choose uh, and I don't want to bind you to stay with me if you don't want uh, or if you can't, it's okay. It's it. In the end what happens is that conversion becomes higher because people feel it's a low risk kind of commitment. Uh, I try you out guys, uh, and I see if you like you and uh, if it's not something that works for me we can part ways or if I have a financial difficulty. Happens all the time. It's the thing that I would want for myself. If I'm using a service and I have somebody who's minding me on a long contract, I said no, I want something that I can stay if uh, I like and feel the value of it. On the flip side, uh, it keeps us on our toes all the time because you are never completely sure. So you can't uh, be complacent. Uh, you can't just uh, uh, make it. Do you need to keep delivering and keep everything as uh, fine tuned this can be and keep uh, constantly um, providing progress which is what is good for the clients. But it's even good for our own professional standards I would say.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: I've heard it described as kind of the Netflix um, way of doing things, the Netflix strategy. I mean how many of us signed up for Netflix years ago and it's just, it's always sort of stayed there. There's always been that, that value you might, you might switch to the ads version for a little while and then switch back. But we've, we imp. Implemented a very similar strategy for us as well because we, we did feel the exact same thing as you as you're saying there. And, and you know, which forces us to show value all the time. Um, and, and I think uh, yes our clients have like changed slightly but generally they've always been, been there. So I think it's a great way of, of doing things and I think it is very much the way businesses are going these days. People don't they just ever since well whenever the perma crisis of the last few years. In most industries it's very hard for people to make those long term commitments without you know, they must prefer to have that flexibility. And I think the same goes for you know, people making travel reservations and hotel reservations. If there's a bit of flexibility, a 10% discount isn't necessarily going to sway them the other way. Um, I think that flexibility is good way.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely feel that they are on your side basically.

Speaker C: So yeah, partnership isn't it? Yeah, that's it. And, and you know as you say that the clients um, it's a long term partnership because that trust is, is built both ways. Um, and Sylvia, just as we um, so we've talked a lot about um. I suppose um, yeah, that sort of, well the, the, the the um advent of the Internet. So we've kind of gone all the way back but um, looking forward beyond um, rankings and traffic, um, what does success actually look like for a pink SEO client? And what's the one thing you'd most like listeners to take away?

Speaker B: Well, rankings and traffic, they excite us very much. But clients not necessarily share the same excitement that we can have. It's a little bit of a nerd kind of thing. Uh, what clients, clients really care about uh, is like getting more inquiries, getting bookings, getting conversions, better quality leads, peace of mind. Like I don't have to keep worrying. Stuff is working and uh, it's uh, behind uh the scenes. So rankings and traffic and so on, they are necessary but they become meaningful only if, if they translate into some real lead, some real business outcome. So it's like ranking for useless things, vanity queries. You need stuff that actually pays the bill and helps you get uh, something back. So um, it's really interesting but it needs to convert into actually transactions. Uh so that is what uh success means for every business owner is uh, you increase your revenue if you're trying to target the right kind of uh offer. Uh hopefully you also increase your profits uh in a nice way and uh, it keeps refueling itself. So you reinvest some of your uh, um increased growth, growth into marketing. And that keeps fueling and it becomes the spiral, the growth. So that is what it should look like. As for what to leave the listeners with, uh, I don't know. I would say that uh a website shouldn't be a business card. It shouldn't be something really pretty that you show to people like that. It's should be more like a salesperson that goes on uh and during the night it fetches you new business, it fetches you new inquiries uh, by uh, people that you would have never met otherwise, uh, that they are not within your circles, they're not. It's done its job without you doing you much. So it's working for you in the background. Uh so that is what should be if it doesn't happen even something is kind of broken and it should be addressed.

Speaker C: Oh, that's great. I love that analogy. I think that will resonate with a lot of, um, our listeners. Um, well, it's been so insightful and I think, you know, looking at, I mean, just hearing your, your journey and just um, how you've um, you know, become adopted Londoners and you've grown your business and built a team and, you know, everything's been very much centered around trust, trust and empathy for your clients and, um, your team. Um, so, yeah, we, we're delighted that you've been able to join us today. Um, and if you'd like to find out more about Sylvia and the team and we'll link up all of the websites and your social channels in, um, the show notes, um, and highly recommend, um, if you'd like to, to chat about SEO or maybe get an audit of your website that you connect with Sylvia and her team, um, who, um, will just, yeah, really, really kind of help and explain things in the layman terms to help, you know, how you can move your business forward. Uh, Sylvia, thank you so much for joining us on the Halo Effect today.

Speaker A: Thank you, Sylvia, thank you.

Speaker B: It was a pleasure. And yeah, I hope to see you again soon.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the Halo Effect Hospitality Stories with Ashley Ashley and Michael Donald. We hope today's episode has offered some insights and encouragement to anyone navigating the world of hospitality or entrepreneurship. We'd love to hear from you. If you have a question, want to suggest a topic or interested in just joining us as a guest, you'll find our contact details in the show Notes. Don't forget to follow, like or subscribe to the Halo Effect on your favourite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Until next time, thank you. And we can't wait to welcome you back for more stories, inspiration.