HubSpot Elite Partner Secrets: How We Reached the Top 1% | Belkins Podcast Episode #16

Speaker A: Uh, want to chat about HubSpot. So you guys are elite partner. Congratulations.

Speaker B: Oh, thanks.

Speaker A: Uh, there's only a number, um, like a few agencies in the world that have that status, right?

Speaker B: I think there's probably over 6,500 HubSpot Solutions partners. I'm not exactly sure how many of them are elite. I think there's dozens at this point.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think even less than that.

Speaker B: Being an elite HubSpot Solutions partner is tied to a few different metrics. It's based on how much HubSpot software you sell or co sell with the HubSpot direct team. Number two is your revenue retention. Once we kind of burned the boats and said, hey, this is, this is the platform we're going for and going with rather it happened quickly. Again, if you don't have somebody readily in your network, right? Hiring an executive search firm for key hires and paying the fee associated with sourcing that talent night and day compared to what we could source on.

Speaker A: But then how does it work?

Speaker B: They have a network, they've got access to tools, you know, whether it's, you know, you know, the LinkedIn version on steroids or their own database from just being in, in the industry. In this case, they specialized in SaaS, adjacent professional services firms. Right. I think I went seven months, one year without getting paid.

Speaker A: Seven months, yeah.

Speaker B: Analytics company money. This is quite close. Years ago.

Speaker A: That's a stretch. That's a stretch. You know that when we were stretching ourselves and not paying ourselves for like three, four months, that was one of the dumbest business decision we've made. And again I think like people will be watching this. They're probably going to say like, maybe my team will say like, I don't know why he's talking this but uh, you know, my advice for people is listen to your CFO and financial advisors because sometimes they're reporting, they're getting like they only can advise, right? They say, hey, here ah are the numbers. This is what I advise you guys do. But you as an executive, you make a decision, right? And sometime we're like, we're so believing in that. We are, right? We're like, no, no, no, no, no. We can make this work. We know we can make this work. You guess what happened at the end? We didn't make this work. Brandon Walsh is the principal and co founder of Mole street and the lead HubSpot Solutions partner that helps mid market and enterprise organizations unify complex tech stacks on HubSpot. Molestreet turns fragmented systems into a single source of truth centralizing data, tightening security and giving teams end to end visibility across marketing, sales and service. Brandon launched the firm in 2011, evolving it from its experiential roots into a global HubSpot consultancy that reached elite status in 2022, which only a handful of companies have been able to achieve off the field. He is a professional polo player, a digital nomad, a spiritual person and a good friend. Business transformation consulting firm. You know, you guys are scaling this like every year you're growing. You mentioned that this year you guys are projecting, growing what, 50%?

Speaker B: Yes, that's target.

Speaker A: It's amazing. And you guys, how many people you have in the team right now I

Speaker B: think we're up to 50, 50 people.

Speaker A: Right, and I think you doubled in the last couple of years. Right?

Speaker B: We've been very lucky. We've been growing at 27 to 70% year on year. Uh, some of that stuff is related to our own systems and the team, the leadership team that we're investing in. But yeah, we're very lucky.

Speaker A: Can you walk me back those couple of years ago when this growth starts happening? Was it intentional in a way. So you guys planned for it and say like, all right, we are ready. What is the different, what happened with regards to your approach or the playbook or how you are handling the business in the last few years comparing to the years that you had before?

Speaker B: Yeah, anything changed totally. And I think for us, because there was, it was kind of a gated approach but you know, or phased approach rather. In the early days of the HubSpot partnership when we went all in on that platform, right. We stopped building websites on any other content management system. We stopped reporting out of any other tools except HubSpot or Google Analytics or something, or Google Data Studio. Once we kind of burned the boats and said, hey, this is, this is the platform we're going for and going with, rather it was, you know, it happened quickly. Just remember that becoming a, an elite tier partner within HubSpot is at least it was at the time, heavily reliant on how much software you sold or influenced.

Speaker A: Uh, right.

Speaker B: So that was, in a way was uh, almost gamified. Right. Like here, hit this target, achieve this status. Right. So for us that was awesome because as I mentioned earlier, we didn't have any other framework except Brian and I telling each other what to do or, you know, how we felt when we woke up in the morning. So the first, I'd say era of the business was learn as much as you can about the platform, learn and get to meet as many People that work at HubSpot as possible, specifically within the sales Org, because they were, you know, our key partners. They would bring us into deals. In the very early days, I used to work out of HubSpot offices. You know, I would go and set up shop.

Speaker A: I want us to touch base on the way you handling partners and the HubSpot partnership in the more detail.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, so what I love what you just say right now is that you said that we were spread across, offering multiple services, website design, marketing, all that. And as soon as you guys start being more focused, this is the service we offer, this is the suite we're focusing on. This technology. It helped your business transform, and then now you kind of were clear in terms of what you need to do step by step to reach the goals. Is that right?

Speaker B: Yes. That's a great way to say it. M. We got invited to the HubSpot Inbound Conference in 2018. My sister was working for Gartner at the time, and they sponsored that year's Inbound conference. So that was kind of the seed that was planted. Uh, Brian went out.

Speaker A: She invited you to.

Speaker B: Yeah, she. She was the one that basically tipped me off to. To what the. The power of what HubSpot could be.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. And then Brian actually attended the conference and we met with their, you know, agency partner team and started to learn more about the program, purchased the software, and then we actually, you know, formally joined that partner program.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So,

Speaker A: um, what was the most difficult step in that kind of transition for you from a kind of boutique, smaller team into a more kind of growth team? Like personally, throughout all these last few years. Um, scaling the business.

Speaker B: Yeah. Learning how to say no, I think, and valuing your time.

Speaker A: Can you give an example of what do you mean by no?

Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think of it from a business perspective, like turning away clients that you've been working with for many years, but for whatever reason, they're not aligned with the future of the business. So that. That's tough, but you gain a lot of confidence from doing it because you know where you're headed. Um, and not saying just no to current. Current clients who you've been working with or have established relationships with, but also turning down opportunities that just aren't the right fit. You know, I think that was, you know, again, the early days of working together. Like when I ask, get a chance to talk to people about, let's say, getting involved in. With an appointment setting, service, Legion World, you really have to know your ideal client profile. You have to do the work, uh, to understand not just what profile do they actually, you know, meet, but how does that fit with our business and what's best for us?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and that just takes a lot of soul searching. It takes a lot of thinking and a lot of folks just don't, don't put in the time necessary.

Speaker A: You know, it's actually, um, interesting that you mentioned this, but you guys were one of the examples that I was thinking about when I was even building my offer around the buying Persona and sort of like just collecting my understanding of marketing. Because I remember when we were doing work for you guys and the pipeline was there, we were building the pipeline, deletes were happening, the conversation were there, there was some kind of interest. But at the end, the pipeline wasn't, um, consistent, it wasn't moving to closing. The numbers were off. And you were like, the fuck is happening? We need to figure this out. And, and I remember you going back and saying, hey, Michael, we're going to go back to the drawing board. Yeah, we're going to figure this out. We're going to understand better who our buyers are, their pain points, how we resonate with them, what is best for our business. And then a few years fast forward, you guys completely transformed. You know, you start closing, you kind of are, you know, and then I was like, that makes sense. Like you've done the work and now you get, you know, to pay off for all the strategic decisions you guys made. Right. So when I was working on the service for kind of our new omnichannel point of setting, and when we were kind of onboarding new customers, like, we literally doubled down on the strategy, obviously AI helps right now. Uh, but I think that without realizing it, just the fact that I knew that you guys have been going through this process and the results of it, on the back of my mind was like, there. So when I was pushing for the strategy and sort of like for doubling down for the clients, I kind of knew that this is the route to go because I had a real example of someone in my closed network who've done this and who've been successful with this. So I think just kudos for that guys, that you've done that.

Speaker B: Thank you. And it's funny because, it's funny you mentioned this specifically because, you know, I was in, uh, we. I was in a conference in Atlanta, uh, last week for a few days. It was an education, it was a higher education conference, which is one of our verticals, but not our only vertical. We had an Atlanta based client who we hadn't had a chance to meet in person yet, but they had been working with us for many, many years. He cited in his testimonial video the initial outreach which you guys did for us. And he said the message was so on point, so authentic. And then he highlighted things, um, you know, basic parts of our sales process and how, how we sold and how he built trust and, and really served as that trusted advisor.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But it all started with the Belkins outreach.

Speaker A: Nice. So you mentioned saying no was a difficult way for you guys to do. Like, why, why was that difficult? Was that just because that's the way you kind of done business so far? Being opportunistic or like, what was that the key factor for you?

Speaker B: I think, you know, being in sales and being an entrepreneur, you don't want to say no because you're client centric.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Hey, we'll make it happen. I'm also a super positive, you know, optimistic, in some cases, idealistic person.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So I want to figure out a way to make it work no matter what. Yeah, but when you're in business, that, that doesn't really make sense. You know, if, if either the budget's not there or you're not aligned on the values or, you know, so I think that's something that, that's why, again, I, I believe so deeply in what you and your team do, because I think that even testing a new market or testing a new product, it's so important to get that feedback. It's so important to get. Have a level of experience, to know what doesn't work. Right. When we give our. What I'll call our ICP to the reps at HubSpot and the people on their team that, that oftentimes will match us with larger opportunities. We spend just as much time talking about what's not a fit as we do sharing what is a fit, because those are the things that people remember, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, on the flip side of saying no, just, um, have an example. Uh, one of the comp. My agency that I'm advising right now, I start this couple of months. I'm working as the fractional head of sales for them because they have a couple of, uh, AES that aren't closing, so the pipeline is, Is dried up. Um, and we're kind of routing this agency about like 80 opportunities a month. Right. And we're like. And they're all like, moving to loss, loss, loss, loss. So I came in to figure this out, right. And what happened was The CEO of the agency put so much pressure on AES to qualify customers before moving to closing. Then they literally disqualified lots of opportunities just because they were like, on point of, okay, we should say no to the business. That's not ideal client. So when I got back to them was like, hey, guys, this is not the way you're going to build the pipeline. So just to your point, right, it's great that saying no, specifically in the case of Mole street worked because you were at the good sort of like time in terms of the business where you've been. And if you do that a bit early and you start losing that, you cannot build a pipeline. Right. Because when you're a startup and you're starting out and you were just building your first book of business and you can be very flexible with regards to your offer, you didn't decide, oh, I'm just going with the HubSpot. This is who we are, are. This is what we want. You don't have that DNA, right. So what happened was those salespeople, they were like driving the pipeline through the lost so quickly that their middle of the funnel and they're like, uh, you know, like demo quality, qualified opportunities was nothing there. So the first thing I was like, okay, guys, that's not the way you do this. Let's go back, let's say yes to all the folks, let's talk to everyone. Let's figure out what they're looking for, what they need. Let's build the offer from there. Yes, right. And not like, oh, uh, we have an offer. If you don't need this offer, this is it. Like, you are not the business. You are making your first million dollars or something. You're not there yet. Right. So I'm sure that when, when you start saying no, the Wall street was much more mature in terms of the business, the revenue, the understanding of the clients, then making the first couple of million. So I think, like, just important qualification for a lot of listeners, right, that they were like, oh, I should say no to my customers. Like, you should understand where in your lifecycle of your organization you have that no happening.

Speaker B: Right, well, yeah, uh, don't say no until you.

Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think, look, we're still dialing in it, like to this day. We're still working on new pricing strategies, we're still testing things. I mean, because, you know, again, like any startup, like any, any entrepreneurial journey, volume really does matter as long as you're meeting your minimum. Right. You know, gross profit target.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You can get you Know, you can get competitive. Uh, and so, yeah, we're, we're doing all this, all the studies right now on, you know, conversion, you know, how, how quickly, you know, our sales cycle, uh, is running, the impact that has on, on the business. So.

Speaker A: So you have no, uh, what else you mentioned was the. Another example of the,

Speaker B: uh.

Speaker A: Yes. One of the hardest things you've done in terms of kind, uh, of transitioning from a more scalable approach of building the business,

Speaker B: not focusing on competition or rivals. I think when you have a smaller company, and especially if you're in a place like we were with in Philadelphia, everybody knows each other. You know, business community is pretty interconnected. It's pretty common to like, look across the way and say, you know, who's my rival? Who's my, my competitor? What are they up to? It's just such a distraction. You know, you can take inspiration from others, but, you know, you're not really in competition with anybody but yourself. I think that took a long time for me to realize, um, because again, it's harder to do the inner work. It's harder to look at yourself, you know, what the flaws are, what's the areas of opportunity. Right. Uh, and so again, it takes time. It takes time to build a confidence to, you know, really go your own way and not get distracted.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, one of them, one of them, to your point, one of the things I was pondering on when was working on my last newsletter was exactly around, um, leveraging your strength instead of looking for ways to add on your strength. So what I mean by that is if you're looking at your competitors all the time and what they're doing, and they're like, oh, competitors are great at social. We should go and do social. Oh, competitors are great with, like, ads. We should be at the ads as well. Right. But ads are not your strong suit. Right. Like, you've never done the ads, so probably you're gonna suck with ads. Right. And it's gonna take you more time, and you're probably gonna be half as good as the competitors would be. Right?

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: But while doing that, you're defocused from your strength, which is like, who we are, what do we do the best? And let's double down on that and let's be so good. Then when competitors are looking at us like, oh, we're not going to even go there. Those guys are just, you know, taking that market there. Right?

Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.

Speaker A: I think, like, even in, in marketing. Right. So, um, again, um, like, if I am great at content, Right. So it's organic. I'm natural at it. I do it all the time, whatever. So if someone say like, yeah, we also need to do content, probably it's going to be half as good as bad. Right? Or you guys are. No. And again, I want to talk more about this, but you guys are big at conference and straight shows.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So if I were to go, um, I think like, sorry, I'm just kind of stepped back here. I think I even mentioned you in one of my newsletters about Mall street and conferences. I need to check it out and send you the link. But, uh, but basically, uh, yeah, you guys are, are huge at the conferences. So if I will do that, I'll probably going to do half as good as you are. Probably. Maybe at some point in time, in a couple of years I will learn. Right. But the momentum I will lose on not focusing on my strength through it. Right. So again, to your point with competitors and uh, I think that's this, that's the mistake that we all are making early on while copying something because that we know that that works, which is great. But going too much and also copying the strategy, like, oh, they're doing the strategy, so we should do it the same. It's probably not the best way. Right.

Speaker B: So it's totally true. And, and I want to take it one step further because remember, it's not just the medium. Right. You know, for example, LinkedIn over the last eight months has been a big channel for us. It's something I put a lot of time into. The team at Mole street on the marketing side, Zach Radbone, who's, who's really been leading that effort, and our new head of marketing, Dave Wells. You know, it, it's been, how can you stay authentic with the content that you're putting out? Because there's a lot of, there's a lot of technical HubSpot, how to videos and tips and tricks. That's not my brand and that's not my specific personal expertise. Right. So it's how do you weave in relevancy, maintain authenticity. Right. But then show a level of consistency where you can build momentum with like a personal brand, which is therefore an extension of the, of the, you know, company brand itself. Being a founder.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, all right, so we have two. So we have no, uh, we have staying, um, focused and not, you, uh, know, looking at.

Speaker B: Not getting distracted.

Speaker A: Getting distracted. Right. Anything else? Number three, something that I think, you

Speaker B: know, any entrepreneur is going to need a level of discipline. That was something too. That took me a While to learn, uh, you know, it's one thing to say, you know, not get distracted or, or following your competitors or things like that, but like you know, digging in on a deeper level to what truly drives you and what motivates you and then finding out what your strengths are, not trying to overcompensate for things that you can't do well. You know, hire the people that you need to support you, focus on the things that you can do really well and have the confidence to say this is a level of value that I'm bringing to the table. You know, despite my other flaws or my limitations, here's what I can do and really double down on that few mistakes.

Speaker A: You, you can warn yourself in the past that you won't do any fuck up stories or anything that you now all like kind of uh, you know, decision you've made that you would probably go well, not go back, but you're gonna take a younger Brandon. Hey man, it's not the way you handle things like that.

Speaker B: Well, I think understanding the importance of cash flow, I think a lot of businesses, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs make this mistake. I know we did. We didn't I guess realize or understand how important it was until we had a bigger team and you have to deal with payroll and you have to deal, you know, with these recurring expenses.

Speaker A: Did you make a mistake with it?

Speaker B: No, I don't think we made a mistake. But, but it was just, you know, there were sacrifices that Brian and I had to make.

Speaker A: You know, uh, cutting on your salary.

Speaker B: Sure, yeah. Points where we went, I think I went seven months, one year without getting paid.

Speaker A: Seven months?

Speaker B: Yeah. And loan the company money. This is quite close.

Speaker A: That's a stretch.

Speaker B: So I mean it's an owner, you, you know, I've done similar, you know the game and that's how, that's how it works.

Speaker A: Uh, it's the worst. And you know what? And I honestly. And again I think like people will be watching this. They're probably going to say like, maybe my team will say like I don't know why he's talking this but you know that when we were stretching ourselves and not paying ourselves for like three, four months, that was one of the dumbest business decision we've made. And the reason is that we've done that to. Because we knew that we're not paying ourselves but we can save a couple of people jobs that they will be working or something. So we are trying to, instead of focusing on how do we transform the business and how do we make the business model work, right? Like, because it's not about retaining jobs for folks, it's about making the business work, making the number works, right? And if the number doesn't work and if you are not paying yourself and stretching yourself for the salary, it means that it's not about the next paycheck, it's about changing the business. So what we've done, we're like, all right, let's stretch it. What happened three or four months, we're not paying ourselves, we're struggling. We didn't transform the business, and we've kind of go up and then went down again, right? And unfortunately, even doing, making that decision, it didn't impact it positively on the team or, you know, even the jobs that we've saved for folks, like, no one cared because business wasn't successful, right? Because, like, yes, we have plus five, 10 people that will be working for the next couple of months. And I know it sounds harsh for folks, but this decision, it didn't lead to anywhere. It didn't lead to prosperity. It just literally extended the lifetime of, you know, of that paycheck for a couple of months, 100%. So we didn't literally make anyone good. So we've made a word to ourselves and say, listen, we promised we're never going to go back to that. So if we need to make hard decision, if we need to transform, if we will be against the wall, we will be focusing on how do we make right with the team. But if we need to optimize to lower down the number of people we have in the organization, but for the remaining rest, we are going to go and successfully provide the growth, the opportunity they are looking for, that is much better decision then that's probably the hardest

Speaker B: thing because my mindset is oftentimes, hey, I can make a bigger sacrifice. You know, uh, Brian's actually been an amazing counterbalance on that and for a lot of reasons, but making sure that as owners, we've been able to maintain a certain, um, level of success financially, no matter what's happening with the business. That, again, that's still not my default. Uh, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that. You know, they throw it all into their company, do whatever can, you know, do whatever they can rather to, like, see it be successful. So in a lot, in a way, it can, like, delay, you know, it's. It's delayed gratification on steroids.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Uh, but you're right, if the business, and certainly the founders, if they're still operating the company, you Know if, if you're not happy, if you're not able to support yourself, you're not available to support your family, that has a carry on effect to your spouse, significant other members of the family. I mean, these are all things that they, they're part of your support system. Right. They're, they're folks that are supposed to be building you up. So, yeah, it's essential. You got to take care of yourself first.

Speaker A: Um, and I think that's, uh, we can talk about this because we. I think I know again, correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys didn't raise capital.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We bootstrapped.

Speaker A: Right. And we bootstrapped as well. So when you're working with your own capital all this time, all these mistakes, you're paying them off with your own pockets. Right? All the time. Every time. And at, uh, the end of the day, you're still not helping the business. Right. But once you think about, all right, how do I make this work? What is not working on my P and L. Right. Like my acquisition is too much, my cost of service, you know, where here in this equation, like I'm losing capital to make this work, then maybe you can just find a solution. But definitely, um, you know, cutting yourself short and trying to survive on the savings, uh, is not a long term, uh, business plan. 100%.

Speaker B: And as you professionalize the finance function in your business.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: The data becomes really clear and helps you make better decisions. That's probably been the biggest shift, I'd say, in the last 18 months to two years since we started working with, uh, a new advisory team called Acrisis, um, Mark Hodges and Bill Thomas based LA and London. They've really helped shift our perspective on the value of a really strong finance function internally, the discipline that comes with it, but also the reporting and the data and how it can lead to better outcomes, better decisions. And that was something we just under indexed on. I mean, neither Brian nor I are finance people. That was never our background. And so, uh, it didn't necessarily come naturally to us. And you know, there's a level of optimism and idealism in the early days of a business that you. That are, that's important, that gives you the, you know, the opportunity, you know, if they talk a lot about entrepreneurs and, you know, if they knew how difficult it was to grow and scale a business, they never would have started the company.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: And again, uh, it just, it's something to keep in perspective.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, you know, that, um, my, my cfo, Natalie, um, gave us Me and my co founder Vlad, a tough feedback a couple of times that we're not listening to her. Her advices. So, uh, you know, my advice for people is listen to your CFO and financial advisors, because sometimes they're reporting, they're giving, like, they only can advise, right? They say, hey, here are the numbers. This is what I advise you guys do. But you as an executive, you make a decision, right? And sometime we're like, we're so believing in that. We are, right? We're like, no, no, no, no, no. We can make this work. We know we can make this work. You guess what happened at the end? We didn't make this work. So we delayed that optimization part for a month, for two months, which costed us half a million. A million dollars, right? Just literally making that call a bit sooner because we cannot afford. So it's like, they can, hey, you guys cannot afford this anymore. You just need to. I was like, no, no, we can, we can make this work. And then at the end, we doubled that. At the end we're like, okay, so again, I think listening to your financial advisors is important. It's one way to have them, but in other ways also act on what

Speaker B: they're, you know, 100%. And sometimes again, you're going to make additional mistakes, right? And they're going to tell you otherwise. And then, you know, you have to learn it the hard way. Even with good advisory. I think another side of that is related to, to hr, you know, like recruiting for key roles, you know?

Speaker A: Right, Absolutely.

Speaker B: I, uh, don't. I'm not sure how much success you've had in using like a headhunter or a search firm, but that was the best money we ever spent.

Speaker A: Were you.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, one, um, um, hundred percent significant investment, but it was, you know, for certain roles. Like, again, if you don't have somebody readily in your network.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Hiring an executive search firm for key hires and paying the fee associated with sourcing that talent night and day compared to what we could source on our own. Now that can't. That's oftentimes not tenable for a lot of businesses, especially in the early days, because it's expensive, the fees that these firms charge. But we worked with a company out of New York called Assertitude. They actually have a London presence as well. Incredible partners of ours. And they helped us land our, uh, director of consulting, which was an absolute key hire that we had had some trouble, um, sourcing for. And, you know, we kind of thought we had pretty decent candidates. But when they got involved and, and, and you know, took on the role. It was just night and day, the types of conversations we were having, we were learning so much about the industry because you're talking to you know, five to eight to 10 candidates that are all A level folks.

Speaker A: But then how does it work? Like are they like sourcing them like their contact details and then uh, like the value from the partnership, was it in the database that they had or the way they kind of engage with, with potential candidates on your behalf and then drive those conversations. So without them you won't be able to hold on all kind of those folks, both.

Speaker B: They have a network, they've got access to tools, you know, whether it's you know, uh, you know, the LinkedIn version on steroids or their own database from just being in, in the industry. In this case they specialized in SAS adjacent professional services firms. Uh. Right. So they had a network of folks and when we're telling them about our business model and kind of what we do, they're like oh okay, well it's very similar to this other platform. We're like yeah, that's uh. And so there was just a lot of cross pollination that came with it. And subsequently very professional organization. The way that they handled the outreach, they were coaching candidates, giving us feedback and it was just this, you know, this process and again best, best investment we could have ever made.

Speaker A: Would you advise folks, um, leveraging um, this type of services for what seniority roles like director level plus depends on the business. Right?

Speaker B: Certainly director level plus. But at the same time, I mean if you're an AI company, you know, it may not be a director, may just be a member of the, of the development team. So it depends on how critical the hire is it less about the role and how mission critical is it.

Speaker A: But I think like if it's a more kind of widespread role in a way like an AI architect or something, when this firm is competing with thousands of other agencies is one thing or companies.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: And then director of uh, technology uh, for HubSpot consulting firm which is a more niche in a way. Right. So I think like even the offering is more competitive. Right. Because at the end it's a very small number of people that can be part of that role who will be interested and have a background. So in a way you're competing with less.

Speaker B: You know what I mean? Sure. No, but remember too, it's also how the opportunity is packaged if you get reached out to by an executive recruiter.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Who's known or you know, works for a Top firm. You're going to be taking that LinkedIn message. There's also a level of consistency in the follow up.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Versus hey, apply online, apply through my profile LinkedIn. That's one thing. Versus hey listen, your profile fit XYZ qualifications for this particular role. It's very attractive. Here's the opportunity that it's like you're having an agent almost, you know, presented

Speaker A: for you, but then bringing someone like a, like a recruitment consultant or like a um, like a freelancer or someone part time or fractional for sure.

Speaker B: And we've done both.

Speaker A: Right. So would that, would that be not the same thing?

Speaker B: Could be. It depends on the industry.

Speaker A: It just didn't work for you, Right?

Speaker B: Right. I mean it was something that did work for us for certain roles. Right. But when it comes to key strategic hires, I mean there's a reason why executive search firms exist to hire CEOs and right. Senior level people, they're getting paid in some cases, you know, a significant percentage of the annual, of the first year annual salary. Right. So that, that's a big investment for any company, let alone uh, a company of our size. And so it's uh, but again in a way it's an insurance policy.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker B: So we, yeah, we were very lucky to get connected with these folks again through our operating partner, uh, Nick Wilkinson. And uh, yeah, it was again best money we ever spent.

Speaker A: Looking back who you were as entrepreneur comparing to who you right now, what has changed? What has evolved in you throughout this relationship that we've been building all these five years?

Speaker B: I think that when Brian and I started the company, we always had grit, we always had determination, we always had some confidence. But um, it was more of a opportunistic entrepreneurism. Whereas I think what happened when we became partners with HubSpot in 2018, it became a much more directed, focused, systematic, uh, business strategy and plan. Right. They helped us to basically tap into a framework saying here's a roadmap, here's what success can look like if you reach these certain benchmarks. And for the first time we felt like we had, you know, like a true north and could really rally around, around something which in this case was the platform.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah. So for most folks, professional, um, services is associated with a lifestyle business, usually in consulting. Right? Sure. Uh, but you guys obviously went with the route of the scalable business. Right. So was that the turning point for you when you started working with the HubSpot, or was there something else happening in the business, maybe in your personal life that Was sort of like the point where you decided, all right, we've been doing this for five, seven years. We were small, was lifestyle, but it's time for us to scale the business and grow to 7, 8, 9 figure.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I think it, I wish I could say that it was so, so quick but it really was a process. It was an evolution. We had, we basically had two businesses at that point in 2018. We had an experiential marketing agency where we did live event production, music booking, uh, talent buying for corporate events. We would come in and do like national sales event for Comcast and book the entertainment for their, you know, 500 top salespeople in Tulum Mexico, you know, or a uh, you know a furniture manufacturers annual conference in the Caymans. We would do the booking and the production for that stuff and it was awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's fun.

Speaker B: But after a while, you know, working weekends and some of the, some of the glamour around exotic locations and travel and when you're doing it for work and you're in charge of the logistics and it's nightmare, the visas and the. You know what I mean? It starts to become a bug out. I think both Brian and I matured over time. He started a family. We, we realized that you know, working nights and weekends at uh, a certain point m. But. And so additionally Michael, remember too covet happened, right? And so immediately that anything related to entertainment events, you know. And so for us it was a, it was a natural, it was kind of a natural wind down of that experiential marketing and music side and then a ramping up of really what is at the end of the day, digital transformation consulting with HubSpot at its core. And it, it gave us lots of Runway to kind of like, you know, get our chops up and learn that, learn that side of the industry which we didn't have as much exposure to before becoming a partner.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So I mean you remember when, I still remember this day talking to you about your tech stack. I mean this must have been 2019 or 2020, right? And we talked about HubSpot and you were considering it I think. I can't remember what, what other platform you used at the time.

Speaker A: Pipe Drive.

Speaker B: Yeah, Pipe Drive. But I remember that was like a thing. You know, you guys are so, uh, the way you handle your tool, you guys probably thought oh, we can build a CRM, like we can do our own thing, right? And so I just remember saying, oh

Speaker A: well this is, this is a platform

Speaker B: that really is going to grow with you. And I Was excited to see how you really did adopt it over time. That was cool.

Speaker A: Uh, want to chat about HubSpot? So you guys are elite partner. Congratulations.

Speaker B: Oh, thanks.

Speaker A: Uh, there's only um, a number, like a few agencies in the world that have that status, right?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, there's a, there's. I think there's probably over 6,500 HubSpot Solutions partners.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I'm not exactly sure how many of them are elite. I, you know, I think there's probably, I think there's you know, dozens at this point.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think even less than that maybe. Yeah, it's just because like I know like how our marketing operates typically, um, around like 75 to 80% are very small. So they're like around gold ish there.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: And then so when it goes comes to elite, it's like 1% typically. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds about right. I think for us, we, you know, we've taken a lot of confidence and, and, and a lot of value in the partnership. Uh, we really believe in the leadership of the company. Dharmash Shah, the CTO who's co founder, uh, and the CEO Yamini. Absolutely. Fantastic. So you know, we're very lucky to be partnered with a company that takes partnerships seriously. It's a big part of their go to market. I think it drives over 40% of their lead volume. Um, is working with partners, co selling with partners. I'm sure it's higher now. So that has a lot to do with our success too is that you know, we have someone and a group of people not only an innovative platform but also they do what they say they're going to do, they listen to feedback, they're collaborative and you really do feel like you're locked in step with them. Uh, and I, I haven't had much experience working in other technology platforms and what their partnership programs are like. I think it's also a moment in time as that, as that platform moves up market. Uh, but it's. Yeah, it's a very special situation.

Speaker A: Um, I want to tap into your experience because I think it's pretty unique, um, like having a um, attack partner like HubSpot to be so integrated into your business. Then literally it's like most street and HubSpot is a kind of most extension to HubSpot in a way. Right. So um, what does um, being an elite partner mean for Mole Street? What kind of benefit you guys get and just generally what does it do for you as a business having that kind of recognition and having that partnership, like purely from I Don't like commercial strategic. Like the reason I wanted to tap into that is that um, um, one of the mistakes that I've done early on in my career was trying to build the service offering in Silo without being attached to a certain service provider. Like I know a lot of folks that are great like Google Certified partners or LinkedIn partners or, and they are doing amazing things with their business. So I think like what we, the opportunity we missed is being part of the ecosystem early on and it's very difficult to do that when you're bigger in a way. Right. So I would love to. And again I think we didn't talk about that in more detail so I was just curious like what does that actually give you being that you know, that type of partner with the HubSpot so that maybe folks can think about this while making their strategic decision building the businesses right now in this space?

Speaker B: That's a great question. And it's something that I advise uh, founders on all the time. If it's a tech enabled business or a software adjacent business, I recommend you know, building partnerships with whatever platform. But at its core being an elite HubSpot Solutions partner is tied to a few different metrics. It's based on how much HubSpot software you sell or co sell with the HubSpot Direct team. Right, that's, that's number one. Number two is your revenue retention. So the clients that you do bring to the table or that are assigned to you, how many of those folks are still with HubSpot, still using HubSpot and growing on the platform. Those are two basic elite designation though Michael is not, you know, is not enough though. There's the levels of accreditation, certifications that you get and then it's a specialization within particular industries and that's something that Mole street has become really well known for. Whether it be financial services. We have a niche within the accounting space, we have a niche within the credit union space. Uh, we're building a lot of momentum around you know, in higher ed right now as well. Uh so it's, it's a designation. So okay, this team is accredited. They have the expertise, they have the technical capabilities to be able to deliver on said solutions. As we go up market mid market enterprise companies have different needs. You know they're using 7, 10, 12 different platforms, data warehouse, they've got a bunch of point solutions that they need to be you know, integrating with um, oftentimes HubSpot isn't their only, you know, marketing tool or CRM. Sometimes they'll have two so it's, you know, having the, I'd say the maturity to be good business consultants. Mhm is where Boll street tries to differentiate ourselves. There's lots of folks who are very technical IT HubSpot and know that product very, very well. But there's very few organizations who have, you know, Accenture alumni running their consulting arm. Right. Because it just hasn't matured yet to that point. Now there's, there's some, and, and, and they're definitely building momentum. But because HubSpot started as an SMB tool.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That kind of maturity comes later. And we've been lucky in that we just timed the market right and built the capabilities uh, to drive change management and you know, business process optimization, systems engineering, like these are the types of things. It's not enough to just be a HubSpot expert. You have to think about how that platform fits into all the business systems and can drive repeatable scalable success.

Speaker A: Um, how does HubSpot support you guys? What do they give you? Uh, and then um, what do you love more about their support and then calling them out? What are you guys are missing and what can be the area of improvement for they can do more.

Speaker B: Well my view to start HubSpot has done a really great job with the uh, basically market development funds. They have something a program called MDF where you can submit if you're a high enough tier partner and you have an event idea, whether that be a webinar, whether it be, you know, speaking at a conference, you name it, or some sort of collaboration, maybe producing a white paper. Right. HubSpot will actually give you like what we would call like marketing co op dollars. Right. Uh, and in some cases will cover up to you know, 50% of the cost of said marketing event, whatever that might be. Uh, and so we feel very supported by them. That really helped us drive. You know you talked about our go to market this year being heavily event driven. Yeah. Well a lot of that success too was having a partner like HubSpot who believed in that. They know that we know the niches that we're active in. Right. And the verticals. So for them it's money well spent and they track it. You submit a lead list. Hey, these are all the people that we met at said event. They obviously want to see that convert and they keep that in mind when giving funds in the future. So I think that's something within the partner program that's works really well. I think another thing that works really well is the coaching and mentorship that's available and I'm doing a quarterly meetup with the CEO and you know, feel very heard and we have a relationship and, and uh, it's, it's awesome. I mean to say, hey look, I, I feel like I matter to CEO of a multibillion dollar company that's good and be able to have that, you know, give feedback and you know, brainstorm. And so I think that's having that other kind of thought partner, uh, makes us even feel like you know, there's more, there's more success to be had.

Speaker A: Um, HubSpot does also provide leads route some leads, some opportunities or no in

Speaker B: certain cases based on your expertise. Yes, they, they match make in a way for particular, particular deals. If they hit a certain threshold, if they hit a certain profile, if you have the expertise in said industry, they will absolutely pair you with right fit opportunities. And then we would co sell together with their team.

Speaker A: Uh, do they also provide like a dedicated ah, resource or like agents or something? Like I know I spoke with folks from that are very high tier on Google partnership list and then very often for some strategic accounts, Google designate um, some rev ops people or like paid ad specialists that work with the client accounts on the behalf of that agency in a way. Has HubSpot do any of that?

Speaker B: So not as specific as that. I'd say they have. We have someone who is our partner, uh, development manager Kim, who's incredible. Kim Lindgren. She, you know, Kim Lahar. Excuse me, she, she serves as that interface. So she serves as the, as basically our advocate internally at HubSpot. Uh, but when it comes to like technical expertise and things like that. No, I mean we're pretty much relying on our own devices to be able to handle that.

Speaker A: Can you share me your playbook of building the relationship with someone like HubSpot? I remember four years ago we met in Chicago and you were meeting with uh, your account manager back then, remember

Speaker B: whose name was Ross Preston.

Speaker A: Ross Preston, right. And you were like Michael, you need to build relationships with, not just with your clients but with your partners. Right. So what have you been doing? Like what is the, your, your, your playbook and just your approach to sort of like you know, maybe kind of a step by step methodology of someone who wanted to establish a strong relationship with a, again a multibillion dollar business, someone that you wanted to grow with a partnership. What, what, what intentional steps you're you're making in the direction of, of HubSpot?

Speaker B: Totally. Well, first of all you got to be authentic, right? That that's a number one. And basically depending on the individual that you're seeking to build a relationship with, try to be as transparent as possible about what your goals and intentions are so that they can be kind of co opted in and there's no confusion about the goals. I think in the case of Ross, we saw him and he was our, he was our. In that era, they called it a channel account manager again. But he, you know, he was an extension of our team. You know, he, he was a mole from our, from our perspective. Right. And it was again, a different era in the partnership program, but we really, we would feel comfortable with him speaking on our behalf, taking calls on our behalf, like truly just an additional person on the sales team. And I tried to get as much time with him in person as possible. Whether it be quarterly meets up, you know, you know, hitting up happy hour, you name it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Just to, to deepen the relationship to this day is one of my closest friends. Uh, but to take it one step further beyond just that, in this case, particular person at HubSpot who's in charge of the relationship. I went above and beyond to meet as many people within the sales. Org as possible because I knew that that was going to be an angle to grow our business. Right. I would, uh, literally work out of HubSpot offices in Cambridge, you know, in 2019, 2020, before COVID and almost like roam the halls, come up with a

Speaker A: reason you can do that as a partner.

Speaker B: At that, um, time. Yeah, at that time was a little more flexible. And again, everyone was in office. So it was a different era. Right. And again, I got a lot of energy and enthusiasm from just being in that, you know, very sales driven culture. And it was motivating. It was exciting.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And these folks on the sales team needed good partners to help deliver.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: On the services. Right. So it was a, it was a match made in heaven. And again, every partnership is different, every platform is different, their culture, you name it. Understanding that culture, knowing what you can tap into, being authentic. Uh, and then just, yeah, being really transparent about what your goals are so that folks can buy into what you're selling.

Speaker A: I think it's also a great playbook for anyone who works with vendors anytime. Right. Like I always was saying that when you feel like you're just a vendor and you're there through the job and that's it, and you don't have a personal relationship or just you're not feeling like you're part of the organization, you're not doing as good Work as you could. Right. So building this key relationship with all of your vendors and partners and for them to feel like they're part of this organization, getting them involved is super critical because these are literally, you can have a. There's kind of these people, they will be thinking about you, talking about you and doing their best work. Staying after hours, just do extra, a couple of hours, just do the work for you if they feel that they're included. Right. I think. And that's what a lot of folks these days, especially when folks work remotely. Like I have so many vendors, like I cannot kind of include everyone. But you need to strategically decide who you're going to build relationship with. And I'm sure you. And I think that that's one of your, you know, signature cards. Uh, it's just being very involved in the relationship around you, you know, not just from the business standpoint, but make sure that it's a, this has longevity to it and not just a one off thing, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think to take it one step further, it's not just about building a relationship with someone, it's maintaining the relationship.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: This is my brother and I were talking about the other day. He's really good at building relationships. Not as good, ah, at maintaining them. That's a strength of mine, is maintaining relationships. I mean, hey, one of the reasons we're so close and we're able to see so much success as partners was me coming out and meeting your team in Dominican Republic in 2021.

Speaker A: Did you do that?

Speaker B: Yeah. End of 2020. Yeah. I met Vlad. Oh, there was the flat tire we had. We had to get his, his car, uh, flat tire. And I remember Punta Cana or wherever we were.

Speaker A: You want to tell the story?

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, well, that was a, again, a different era, but your team.

Speaker A: So Vlad was there, so he with his wife and our CTO and his wife went to um. It was in Dominican Republic, right? Yeah, they went for, for a holiday. And I remember Vlad mentioned that they had a flat tire and they were leaving hotel and they saw you walking and Vlad was like, that's what crazy. Like I saw Brandon walking. And then you stopped, Right. He's like, what's up? And then like we have a flat tire. And then because you, you're speaking Spanish, you were able to arrange. Everything was so kind. And then some folks came in, got the, you know, there was like, uh, he mentioned there was like a guy came in the scooter or something. Got the like on the scooter or something. Got. Got the tire and then went back and then half an hour.

Speaker B: Only in Dominican Republic could you make that happen.

Speaker A: So crazy.

Speaker B: But yeah, no, again, we were. We were there to meet, you know, Vlad. Anyway, we were able to align the vacations. Right. But, you know, that was a concerted effort on my part to reinforce the relationship with your team because it. You guys are an important part of maintaining. Maintaining. At that point, we had. You and I had already met, but I don't think I had met Vlad or I hadn't met.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Alex or anything. So I think it was. It was just an important step.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, in deepening the partnership again when you have social time together and it's less about business. But yeah, just by happenstance that early on in the trip, I come out into the parking lot and there's Vlad with a flat tire. We had to get that sorted out.

Speaker A: So crazy. So, talking about partnerships, uh, so, um, you mentioned Brian, your co founder, um, how many years you've been in business together?

Speaker B: We founded Mole street in April of

Speaker A: 2011, so 14 years, almost 15 years in business together. How has your relationship evolved all of the. All those years? Yeah,

Speaker B: I think it's. It's matured more than anything.

Speaker A: Can you m. Define the maturity?

Speaker B: Uh, when I met Brian, I mean, we were both musicians, you know, playing. Playing in bands and working with artists. And, you know, Brian's absolutely a creative. Um, but I also knew, you know, kind of selecting him as my partner, I, I knew that there was a lot more to Bryant than just his. His guitar, uh, capabilities, his music chops. He's one of the deepest people that I know. Uh, he's. He's a man of the Lord. He's a man of faith. Uh, he's a passionate guy, but he's also a family man, you know, a great father.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and I've seen him grow into a leader, frankly. Uh, and it. It just, you know, didn't happen overnight, but it was something that, That I definitely saw evolve. And it's definitely my most successful relationship to date outside of my family, uh, is my partnership with them. Uh, and, yeah, we actually just got a chance to spend some time with his wife Alicia. Her 40th birthday party on Saturday. Went out to see the Dave Matthews Band, uh, in. In Philly, and had a great time. But, yeah, I mean, like anything, like a marriage. Right, right. You know, you have good days, you have bad days. You know, we're. We're very, uh, very good partners, I think, because we both bring different viewpoints. We Respect each other deeply. Um, you know, I don't know if you've ever heard the term, like, disagree and commit.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know, that's. That actually rarely happens. Uh, but if you do, it's disagree and commit. Right. I may not see eye to eye with you on this, but this is a decision we're making. Let's move forward.

Speaker A: Uh, do you guys compete ever? Compete? Do you kind of how the relationship, like, progressed over the years? Was it more you.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker A: You first kind of challenged each other or, like, relied on each other, and now you're just more kind of complimenting each other because you've learned about each one so much or like, uh, yeah, I think.

Speaker B: Well, naturally, because he's handling a different side of the business than I am. There's a separation in a way. Exactly. Some level of separation there. He has certain responsibilities, I have others. But no, I think both of us are motivated because we have the same end goal. Right. And we have a great advisory team. We know exactly where our goals are. Might not know exactly how to get there, but we know what the goal is. And when you're aligned on that, a lot of other things can fall into place. So Brian's better at processes and systems than I am. Uh, and so that's why it's helpful to have that collaboration. Um, and he's somebody that I deeply trust. So when you're working with someone that you trust deeply and has proven to you over the years that they're a trustworthy individual, you give them the benefit of the doubt. He may see something that I don't. Okay, Brian, you're right. Let's go. Let's. All right, let's. Let's figure this out, or I'll go with your idea on this one. Uh, again, that only happens with building a relationship.

Speaker A: Is there anything you do intentionally to make this relationship work? Any specific things you, over the years, kind of, um, have been doing to grow the relationship to this tight brother ship in a way?

Speaker B: Sure. That's a great question. I think getting time together when we can, because I spend so much of my time abroad, uh, in South America, you know, you have to make a point to, you know, be present when you are there Again, going to, you know, Lisa's birthday on. On Saturday. I flew up from. From Florida for that. You know, when there's opportunities to connect, making sure to make it a priority. Uh, I think also being founders, when you're operating a business, it can be so easy to not get what I would call founder time, because you're you've got your direct reports, you've got to carve out things outside of board meetings or leadership calls.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: For truly, like creative founder time keeping. Mhm. That sacred, making that consistent, making sure that there's action items and things that come out of those meetings. That it's not just truly a whiteboard. But hey, how do we make it practical? How do we action xyz. But yeah, I mean, keeping the lines of communication open at all times.

Speaker A: Do you guys give each other slack sometimes just uh, not push each other like, oh, you're failing on this or you're not delivering on this, or like, hey, I understand, let me help you with this. Or like trying to portion that. Because obviously over the years we have ups and downs all the time. So what's the approach when the ups are. Understand like everything is great, we're doing this. But what when any one of you guys are down.

Speaker B: I think it's because we've got such an amazing team now.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's more strategic. Mhm. We're talking about, hey, how can we turn this around? How can we turn that around? Here's a deadline for this or that. It, it's, we're both pretty, pretty motivated at this point to grow the business. It's about how you're using your time. And because we've built such a great leadership team. Yeah, it's gotten a lot easier. Uh, it's not as much about like, hey, Brian, do work harder, do more. It's hey, work through your team. And that's something that didn't necessarily come naturally to me. You know, I'm a really, really good individual contributor. You know, that's how I cut my teeth in sales. And that always had a lot of success. It's been a bigger challenge for me to be a good boss, to be a good leader, you know, to counsel my team. That was something that I needed to, I needed to build some muscle memory around.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so, yeah, it just again, just takes time again.

Speaker A: I think like over the years, obviously, you know, you mostly didn't have all the good times. Right. You had uh, you had the hard times as well. And um, some of you guys took shots and those shots were not the best fit at that time. Right. Um, I think there are two types of people. Those that are doubling down on the mistakes, like, oh, you've done this, that's why. And they kind of uh, called some grudges or something. Or like, I'm putting myself in front of you. I'm better, I can do better. Anything like in partnership. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what I've been living through is that in the partnership of equals, um, when there is, uh, you see that another side or another party or your co founder is taking a hit and you're there to support them, you're not in those moment thinking that I would do better or like, hey, I'll do something else, do this. You're literally just, hey, we'll figure this out together. And I'm there for you in a way. Like in a relationship in a way. Right.

Speaker B: Totally. I mean a good example was Today's, you know, Q2 all hands meeting. I didn't say a word on that call.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and I'm, and I'm used to being pretty vocal and active in phone calls. There really wasn't anything to say. My, you know, director of solutions architecture took the sales section. My director of marketing took the marketing section. Brian took some of the operational updates, uh, macro kind of big picture stuff and the team filled in everything else. There really wasn't much to share, so. And feeling good about that by the way, like knowing that, wow, our business has evolved to this point where I don't need to be the one in front, rah rah, saying everything, feeling like I need to be the star of the show. It's not about me, it's about the team.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if um, if someone else is looking for a co founder, uh, what's the, the one thing they should look out for? Uh, to know that that person is,

Speaker B: is the right fit, I think the right values.

Speaker A: Values.

Speaker B: Yeah, you gotta have alignment on the values. If you're not aligned there, it's gonna be tough. That's what, that's what enabled Brian and I frankly to be successful because we have a lot of overlapping capabilities as well. It wasn't as if he was a technical co founder or a domain expertise co founder and I was a sales guy or that it was true. Like we were figuring this out together.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If we didn't have the same value system then and the level of integrity, it would have been very difficult to weather, to weather the storms.

Speaker A: Can you give me a couple of examples of values? You guys haven't come commonalities or like the system. I understand but like any specific.

Speaker B: I think. Well, right off the bat, you know, both of us being Christians.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, I'm a Catholic, but you know, he's, he's Christian. And I think that you know, having a, having a biblical worldview Right. Can be helpful, uh, in that, you know, you know, you know, what guides, you know, healthy fear of God.

Speaker A: Like values, lifestyle, values situation.

Speaker B: Exactly right. Healthy fear of God. Healthy feel. The Lord will drive you to do a lot of, a lot of things. So I think that, you know, his faith is something I've always admired. Uh, and it's helped me, frankly, on my faith journey. Uh, I think work ethic is another thing. Again, you may, you may take the, uh, one of my friends, uh, was actually mentioning to me the other day that he brought in on a consulting project and, and you know, was brought in by, by one of the investors saying, you know, hey, we need help with, with this particular, uh, project. Uh, and as he was describing to me, like the business model and like the founder and like how it was all working. It's like that's, that's not going to be successful. That's not a money problem. That's a, that's a founder who's, who's just, you know, not cut out to be a founder or not willing to put in the discipline and the time to make it work. So I think value system, work ethic paramount. Right. Uh, and, you know, the ability to take advice and be coachable. He's constantly coaching me, I'm coaching him. But, you know, it's back and forth.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If you're not, if you're not coachable and you don't listen to others, uh, again, it's just tough to be collaborative with people like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I'd say those are probably

Speaker A: the three biggest things for me right now. Also, always think about and look at how person is living their life right now. You know, it's like generally like over the years you just see. And then whether you're admiring that person or you wanted to, you see how the person is taking care of their family, kids, wife, parents, friends, um, you know, how they're spending their time. Um, over the years you just see whether you were more attached and we were more aligned or you're disaligned. Right. Uh, because what you don't want is again, you build a relationship, um, with someone and then someone is like, not professional or getting off the grid somewhere or like going to deserts and, you know, doing drugs all the time.

Speaker B: Not being reliable.

Speaker A: Not. Not being reliable. Exactly. You cannot rely on the person then to cover your back and be there with you in trenches every day. Yeah. I think this level of trust and kind of delegation and kind of understanding of like, that people have their own space and that's why you're bringing on people. I think it definitely comes with, with, with experience over the years. Um, but also, is that something to do with, uh, the fact that you're professionally playing polo as well, and then you're kind of, uh, you have a team and then you're handling horses and the kind of the level of patience, understanding that there are some other people I need to rely on, is that somewhere kind of connected the way you kind of are developing yourself as an athlete in polo and the business part of things. Would you say that?

Speaker B: Sure. I think they go hand in hand. I mean, the amount of discipline that you need as a polo player and of the amount, amount of time, uh, that you're putting into the sport is going to translate to the outcomes. Right. But I think what polo's given me, especially within, let's say, the last four or five years, it's given me something else besides my business that I can just completely zone out when I'm playing. I'm not thinking about the business, I'm not thinking about anything else. And I think that was probably one of the things that, that enabled me to be more successful. Because I had a tangible goal, I was able to kind of realize my passion. Because of COVID I suddenly found myself able to work remotely for the first time and be on the road and basically operated like a digital nomad for almost the last four or five years. So, uh, yeah, I, I think that that's given me an extra nudge in that this is one of the reasons that I'm doing this. This is one of the reasons that I sacrificed so much to build a company with Brian, to give ourselves the flexibility. I know in his case, it's, it's, you know, to be a musician. You know, he's always been an incredible musician. His flexibility with the business and, and being an owner has enabled him. You know, I know he's in the studio right now recording an album. You know, a lot of folks that are in the corporate world can't create the space and time, aren't in control of their schedule. Uh, so, yes, it gives me. It gives me a, I'd say an added, uh, an added goal and. Yes, absolutely. You know, operating as, as an athlete. You know, the discipline that comes with weight training, nutrition, you know, things like that. Yeah, it, it's the hyperfocus. I think that's what makes. I mean, there's a lot of sports like that. Golf, I think, is also similar, although there's less logistics and variables to manage. But, I mean, you Know, it's, it's clear that it's a, it's a way to zone out and forget about the day to day for a second.

Speaker A: Um, I think like when, you know, when we were starting out and you know, we were like 20ish and you were working around the clock all the time, you don't think about any sport because you think that, oh, uh, right now I'm doing the best work. But what comes with experience is that you have this other thing that you're very focused on. It's actually balance out the life so good that you're much more effective with that other thing. And it always comes with, with age. Right? So think like everyone who is just now playing golf, tennis, polo, you know, you were like already 10, 20 years in business. That's where you start appreciating those moments of the focus and hyper focus in one thing that you're doing. And folks that are younger, they um, just don't see that yet. Right?

Speaker B: They don't see it. They don't have the muscle, uh, memory yet. Uh, I'd say pretty much every single person, uh, on my leadership team or leaders in our company, they have an outside of work passion that's a significant amount of time, energy and investment. You know, director of technology, you know, plays the violin. You know, she's, she's learning the violin and has put a lot of time into that. In my case, my business partner Brian, you know, his, his music world. Um, uh, our director of technology, or excuse me, director of consulting is, you know, on the side is doing mastering of, of music albums, things like that. Uh, so there's many, many examples. And my director of solutions, architecture, golf, big passion for me, just came back from Ireland, uh, a couple weeks ago. So yeah, it, I think it enables you to be better at your job when you have something outside of work. Um, that's why I always kind of chuckle about some of the entrepreneurs that don't have hobbies that would never work for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Are you asking this in the interview when you're entering someone for the leadership role? Like, what are you playing what you like?

Speaker B: Is that m. I don't think it's a formal interview question, but it's something that comes up conversationally for all of our leaders. You know, we're doing in person interviews is kind of the last round unless we come to us by way of one of our board members or you know, through the network, so to speak. And it's natural when you spend a day with someone, you know, in the in between moments, you grab lunch with them.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, you're asking, hey, so what are you passionate about outside of work? That comes up and it's the folks that have the best story to tell that oftentimes end up working out the best. You know, most eclectic, very interesting. Or just a passion that they're dedicated to and committed to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That shows resiliency, that shows great determination. All the things that translate well into the business world.

Speaker A: I, uh, um, to this point, actually, um, I, um, saw a podcast with the Diary of CEO, uh, with Kevin o'. Leary. It's like, great interview, great interview.

Speaker B: Fantastic.

Speaker A: And um, he exactly mentioned what you're saying is that. But he's intentionally hiring folks. He said, like, I never bring on the leadership role or anyone to my team, and I have a small team. Anyone who is not passionate about something else, whatever you do, but you need to have been so passionate about that one thing that you can balance out the work. If you don't have that, then I know you won't be able to deliver to me, because that's not how you build longevity. Right. And with this, you can build a longevity and just you can deliver over time. Right. And you're not burning out every couple of months and then looking for another job and another job. Right.

Speaker B: So totally. I think it gives you, it gives you something to think about and, and motivates you. There's ah, many, many examples of that.

Speaker A: I have a lot of questions about Paula, but I'm going to skip a lot of those. I just want to say I want to, um, to ask. So attending horses, does it teach anything you. That is useful in business? Like, you know this LinkedIn post about, like I took my kids from school and that's what taught me marketing or something, you know, example, like so attending horses, you know, I want to do a post on LinkedIn. Like attending horses, what does it teach you in business? Is there anything that you can get, you know, for the business that comes to your mind?

Speaker B: So many things.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: Like, so many.

Speaker A: Shoot.

Speaker B: I mean, the better horse that I'm, that I'm on, the better pole player I am, that's for, that's starters. You know, if you're driving a Ferrari, right, you know, you can, you can compete better. So having the right team, that's, that's key. But I think with horses specifically, they rely on you for everything. Right. They're incredible creatures, incredibly perceptive. They can sense your energy. Uh, it's, it's awesome. Like their, their sensory capabilities, you know, from the wind to noise, you name it. Right. But I think when you have something like a horse that relies on you, you know, to be fed, you know, to be turned out in the pasture, to put horseshoes on it, you know, to be trained, things like that. I think also the, the process of making a polo pony, which in many cases takes between four and six years. Six years, really? For most of them, uh, it's. I mean, you're seeing a living being, a creature that you're teaching a sport and you're developing them over time. So knowing how long it takes to nurture and grow things.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Same thing could be in talent, right? You have a young leader, you have a new, A new employee.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Giving them the tools to be successful, not pushing them too early, things like that. There's many examples of horses that have come out, three, four year olds that are just incredible. But folks push, push them too hard, too early.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it ruins.

Speaker A: They don't have experience yet. Right, right, exactly.

Speaker B: They just so I think, you know, protecting them from the. Themselves, you know.

Speaker A: Wow, that's a lot. Um, any crazy, um, Polish story you can share, the craziest one comes to mind. Then I'll be.

Speaker B: No, I mean, mostly, you know, it's mostly when I think about stories from polo, it's like the people that I got to play with.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Right. The places that I got to visit, you know, I. When I moved to Brazil In January of 2021, I started off in Florianopolis with a really close friend of mine, George Lamb, and spent a few months there, then went to Rio, then went to Sao Paulo. The whole second half of my trip was all basically built upon contacts that I had in polo. Somebody that I played with in Argentina that knew someone in Brazil, made an introduction. I, uh, went to the club, I met one of the members, they took me under their wing, they gave me horses to ride, they let me play in their tournaments. You know, things like that, it completely shifted my whole perspective. Uh, and I made lifelong friends and, you know, made and built relationships with key mentors that I never would have met otherwise. It's such a unique network of people, especially overseas. Uh, and it's, it's a very unique thing. It's a very special thing. Um, you know, Winston Churchill had a quote, you know, your polo handicap is a passport to the world. You know, because during his era, and he was a, uh, he was a fanatical avid polo player. His youth, you know, he lived in, in India and you know, there's stories of him just, you know, obsessing over his polo matches and being competitive and things like that. But, you know, there's still. You tap into kind of an old world mystique that comes along with the sport that's just. It's never going to go away. It's one of the oldest, if not the oldest, team sport in the world. You know, originated in Persia, made its way to India, popularized by the British military, and then spread throughout the world. Right. Um, and, yeah, it's just a very unique thing.

Speaker A: Um, I have for every guest in my show I'm preparing. These are that quiz. Okay. Um, I have, uh, one for you. Uh, Apollo versus marketing. All right. It's going to ask a couple of those, and you just need to. These are that. All right. All right, so field tactic or funnel tactic? So it's like adjusting meat chalker or pivoting meat campaign.

Speaker B: Which one's better or which one's, uh, better?

Speaker A: Which one would you choose? Which one would work? Pivoting mid campaign or adjusting meat chakra? I don't know what chakra is, but

Speaker B: chakra is a period.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Like, okay, gotcha, gotcha. You're playing a six period match, six checkers. Right. That's the. The time. It depends if I'm able to switch out my horse halfway through the chucker, which oftentimes you can do. Uh, yeah, you. You can change strategy mid chucker, but it's usually better to do it in the next ch.

Speaker A: Right. But, okay, Mallet. Um, control or message control, which is like, uh, precision swing or precision storytelling.

Speaker B: Oh, man. I think even more than precision storytelling, it's authentic storytelling. Right. We talked about it earlier.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, but also knowing, too, that it's not just the force of which, like when, you know, every time you try to just completely crush the ball.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Playing polo, you. You messed. You hit the ball, you know, sideways. And so, you know, having a level of finesse is essential to playing polo.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's like brand messaging essential.

Speaker A: Um, winning on the grass or crushing it in business. What, where. What gives them more doflaming in the moment when you're closing a deal or you're winning on the grass?

Speaker B: I think when you're winning a polo match and when you win, uh, a match like that, it's. It's very exciting. You put so much time and energy into. Into that. Look, it's not just winning a match that matters to me. It's. It's the team that I'm playing with.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's the, you know, It's. It's the polo barbecue after. In the asado, afterwards. Right. It's the people that you meet. It's the experiences you have. Right. Talking, uh, about the great horses, all that stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so I think that. That, frankly, is just as important as winning. You know, you learn more from losing, so.

Speaker A: All right, well, it's this one, probably cringy one, but, uh, changing, uh, horses mid match or repositioning your agency ICP mid quarter.

Speaker B: I'd say agency ICP mid quarter, because you have. If. If your campaign's not working and you need to make shifts, you got to do it now. You don't have any time. So, uh, yeah, ICP is everything.

Speaker A: All right, and then the last one is final, um, chakra or final Q4?

Speaker B: Final Chucker. It's on. Anything can happen. I've seen matches that folks were down by four or five goals, and they've come back to win in the final Chucker.

Speaker A: And in final Q4, it's already too late. Right. If you're trying to push it in Q4, it means that you didn't do the work.

Speaker B: You've already lost the year.

Speaker A: Brandon Walsh, thank you for being part of the podcast.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thanks for having me. Great to see you.

Speaker A: Thank you, man.