This Week in Hospitality: Did Amex Just Hand Airbnb the Luxury Traveler? Best Western's Identity Crisis and Andrew Humphries on the Middle East Hotel Boom

Speaker A: I think the big brands, you know, in my view, are drifting away from operating hotels, in spite of what they say in the hma. I think they want the distribution, um, and I think they want franchise fees or their fee stream, but I think they are drifting away from really operating hotels.

Speaker B: Social platforms are going to be the new OTAs.

Speaker C: Whoever owns the moment of intent controls booklets.

Speaker D: Are we going to get a bubble? There are thousands of hotels with hundreds of rooms that still need to be filled.

Speaker B: We're going to be focused on this independent, cool lifestyle and luxury. Luxury. But I have to mark it like a bank.

Speaker C: I think that we can give our 2 cents into the stories that are going on.

Speaker E: Will be in your ears and on your screens every Friday morning.

Speaker C: Let's do it. Let's roll. This is the gold, bro. This is the gold.

Speaker E: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to this week in hospitality. Chris Nesetta's favorite podcast, Ian Schrager's favorite podcasts, Rumor on the Street, Isidore Sharp's favorite podcast, episode 51. Now, right, we've got the legends, the titans of the industry that listen to your boys every week. So you're in good company, folks. And today we have a special guest on the program, Andrew Humphries. Andrew is a partner and co founder of Bridge Hospitality Partners. He spent three decades in luxury hotels. He started out at the Savoy in London, then spent 16 years with Four Seasons as a regional VP and GM, running hotels in Amman, Jordan and the West Indies. From there he led the Yas Viceroy in Abu Dhabi, then joined Qatar's Qara uh, hospitality where he served as Chief Operating officer and later acting CEO. And then last year he co founded Bridge Hospitality Partners, which places veteran interim GMs into upscale and luxury hotels. During leadership transitions. In September of 2025, Bridge was named a preferred interim management partner for the leading hotels of the world. Andrew, so great to have you on, man. Thank you for making time to chat with us today.

Speaker A: Thanks. Great to be here and thank you for the introduction. Nothing. Nothing to add.

Speaker E: Nothing to add. Good. We covered the mazes.

Speaker A: That's it.

Speaker E: Uh, that's awesome. I mean, incredibly impressive, uh, tenure that you've had. And I know that you're going to bring a wealth of knowledge and perspective to this conversation. Edwin, I want to kick it over to you, man. I know that you and Andrew, uh, have some history and go back, uh, uh, some time together and you wanted to make sure we had him on the program today. I know, Andrew, you were just at a big event that we'll talk about that I think will help guide a lot of the discussion for today. But Edwin, anything that you'd add about Andrew and then uh, why don't you kick off the formal discuss discussion here.

Speaker D: Yeah. So we have a bit of a history. Uh, so this is really good to be on the podcast together. Um, I was part uh, of the opening team of Four Seasons in Damascus when Andrew was the regional vice president for Four Seasons when uh, he was in Amman. Um, so we know each other from that period. Have kept in touch sidelines here and there and then recently I think in the past year have been talking about uh, his new venture. Um, we were looking for an interim gm, um for a property. Uh, so we got in touch there and have been in touch since and um, I saw he was um. So you were attending um, did you say Geo Hiss or. Uh,

Speaker A: yeah, it doesn't really, doesn't really say very well but. It

Speaker D: doesn't say very well. No,

Speaker A: it's the Gulf and Indian Ocean uh, hospitality uh investment summit.

Speaker D: Right. So

Speaker A: unpronounceable but there you go.

Speaker D: Geohiz, jihyo, his whatever you want to make it. But you know, for anybody who doesn't know that's an owner driven event focused on hotel real estate investors, developers and franchisees obviously in a uh, a really important region. Um, a lot of us have, have to do with what's happening in, in the Middle East. This also covers the, the Indian Ocean so you know all the key players in the world there. You were uh, speaking at this event, a uh, key event, um, with a few dozen speakers of C suite and key players in the region and globally. And you were speaking about Bridge Hospitality partners. So I thought probably good to kick it off. Um, why you were there and what you were speaking to them about bridge about and what are you doing because you're making waves in a world where we didn't have anybody really looking for or providing for interim gm. So I think probably be good to let us know what the mood in the room was when you were speaking about your venture and I think then we can get into the mood of um, what's really happening at the conference in an area that affects us. All right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well the uh, the conference is organized, they do a number of these around the world by Hofftel. So Hofftel is uh, an industry grouping that uh, represents kind of is on the ownership side. Operators are involved to a certain extent but uh, really focuses on uh, ownership and how uh, what interests ownership need represented in front of uh an audience. So they're a great organization. Um, I was actually lucky enough to meet Simon uh Alison who is the principal there many years ago when I organized um, their first conference actually in Abu Dhabi 2007, something like that. Long time ago. Um but um, so Simon's invited me on a couple of times to come and be a speaker. Uh and um, you know it's always a great group of people. Um and I uh, hadn't been to the Indian Ocean one before the Gulf and Indian Ocean, um but represented by many different people um, in everyone from um, you know top guys in Aimbridge to uh, the few brands particularly Asian and local brands, uh to investors, senior um, uh legal counsel who work a lot on hmas. So it's a broad range of people but it's also um, unique in that it gathers that type of group together um in a sort of, if I can say sort of closed door session. So it's a bit of Chatham House rules that we can speak our mind about what's going on and so it's always useful. Um. But yeah no it's, it's, it's uh, it was great to be there as our first time with bhp. So you've kind of already said it but really BHP provides uh, interim general managers for independent luxury hotels. So it's an idea that um, me and my partner Jan Kirstein had quite uh a while ago when we were still um you know fully employed if I can put it that way. And uh, we decided last uh year that we would actually put it into action. Uh and so what we do is we have a core list of about 40 interim GMs. They are either workers, consultants, they're sort of uh, they must have 10 to 15 years experience in the luxury hospitality industry. Branded or unbranded, um, doesn't matter. But we need that experience. Uh and we find uh clients through small asset management companies, uh through leading hotels as you mentioned before, uh design hotels, we work with small luxury hotels, uh groups that represent independent, uh independent owners. So um, you know it's a unique, unique uh little niche. Uh and it you know when we describe what we do to people they say oh my gosh, doesn't anyone else do that? The answer is actually no one else does that. You can go to a recruitment consultant. They might have someone in their little black book on page 57 um, with uh, with interim experience who wants to do interim. But, but no one actually does that. And what that means is we can deploy someone in two to three weeks. The guys are ready, waiting and we can slot them in. So uh, and it's also a very quick exit. So you find um, the perfect full time gm, uh, whoever he or she may be, uh, and uh, you can get rid of us uh, very quickly. And it's an easy exit which appeals to a lot of uh, a lot of owners and asset managers as well. So yeah, very exciting to be there representing our new little baby.

Speaker D: What was the mood in the room there then in particular for your venture? Because the region's gone through a real tumultuous period. Still is. Hotels closed, quite a lot of independents out there besides the big brands. Uh, how's the market reacting?

Speaker A: Um, it's interesting. The market um, is still okay. Um, Dubai is still strong. Abu Dhabi is still okay. Um, it, it does vary a little bit by location. I mean Bahrain has been badly affected and hasn't come back at all. Um, that was a bit more in the firing line if I can put it like that. But still, still strong. Not nearly as strong as it was. Um, and to a certain extent it depends on the sort of geo source market. Um, you know the British, um, and French, Italian uh, markets, they're not really phased by it. Um, Germans sort of, I don't know if I call them nervous travelers but things like that put them off very quickly. Uh, ah, particularly because a lot is sourced through um, tour operators. So tour operators get nervous very quickly as we know. Uh, and um, so really it depends. But it's still, it's still good. It's not nearly as good as it was but it's still good and resilient and ah, hotels are holding their own. Um, uh, you know they were certainly very nervous at the beginning of this in sort of Q1. Q2. Now it's settled into a pattern and so things are fine. But obviously a resolution is not there yet, um, in the regional conflict. And until a resolution is there there's always going to be a little bit of nervousness. Quite rightly

Speaker D: if you were, you know, because you attended the whole conference and this just happened. Right, a few days ago. That's why we thought we're almost getting live uh, on the show to talk about what happened. What are some of the biggest surprises you heard things you didn't think were happening in the region.

Speaker A: Well, I think

Speaker D: you haven't come from the region for such a long time.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. I think, uh, a couple of things. Um, one, uh, the interest of Asian investors and Asian brands in coming into the Middle East. There are A few there already. Um, but now they're coming in, um, with quite a bit more cash. They want to deploy more cash in the region. They obviously have a view that in the medium and long term it's the right place to be. Um, so a little bit of surprise there as how, how interested they were. Um, you know, I think the second thing was just how resilient the region is, you know, when it, when a destination I suppose could suffer from a loss of confidence from the traveler. Um, you know, I worked in the Caribbean as you mentioned and you know, issues in the Caribbean, like a hurricane a thousand miles away can affect the whole of the Caribbean. Um, and so it's not a resilient location, but the Middle east is remarkably resilient. Um, and I think that is also, it's a combination now that uh, there's a much stronger domestic market. When I say domestic, whether it's Saudi or from the UAE or from um, Qatar, it's a much more resilient market and a much more a savvy market than it was sort of 10 years ago. So when, when things drop they're, they're, they've always got their local regional market that's, that's obviously much, much less sensitive to that kind of thing. Uh, so I think it was sort of a surprise of how they've been able to switch on the, the local market, which didn't really exist when I was kicking around there a few years ago. Um, and um, and, and the fact that the, the region is so resilient in spite of what is potentially quite scary for some travelers.

Speaker E: Yeah. When you think, Andrew, or when you're having these conversations or listening to these conversations specifically from an investor's perspective, what are the kinds of projects, broadly speaking that people are most excited about, m most eager to deploy capital in? Is it sort of the traditional sort of iconic? When you think about like that region, you think you know, massive. Right. Developments. Very, very tall, like you know, uh, uh, world record breaking buildings. Right. Like, are those still the kinds of ventures that are attracting capital right now? Have the projects changed a bit? Just give us a sense of what you heard at the event over the last few days.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think the sort of the change that's happening is um, that the sort of introduction of branded resi. So it's tended to be standalone hotels, um, and branded resi is much more present now in these projects, uh, and is seen uh, really as um, now to sort of, I think to attract some of the big boys, um, both on the Investor side and the brands. Branded resi is seen as a very important component which it really wasn't before there were a few. There was lots of sort of standalone um, uh, projects with residential and ah, hotels separate. But it's now seen as that um, that um, getting the two sides together with branded resi from the, from the big brands is seen as really important. The other thing that was interesting is um, the sort of co, co living um, again that hasn't been at all present in, in the region. It, it's, it's unusual for the region for lots of reasons.

Speaker D: Yeah, we don't co live in the Middle East.

Speaker A: Not, not, not really. Um, but there are a couple of brands coming up. You know I came across a brand there called Hive, Locally Grow, um, um, by a South African entrepreneur. Um, but that's proving to be a very strong m, uh concept there and a lot of people are quite interested in getting into that sort of co living uh, space where particularly when it's such a transient, uh, transient group of people that come and go, you know they need somewhere when they drop in for 3, 4, 5, 6 months, find their feet, they either stay or they move on. Um, but I think that's a very strong uh, strong market now. So I think those two things are um, really coming. But the big stuff would be, would be very interested in the branded resin.

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Speaker B: I'm um, going to kick it back to your days at Katara and sort of bring try and bridge that to today. So I know at Katara most of the assets you oversaw were really carried by location and well known luxury brands. I think Birkenstock was probably the exception, which is a fascinating property to me. I'm actually doing an Instagram, um, reel story about that property soon. But I'm just curious, how, how did you see marketing and distribution different at a property like Birkenstock versus all the other assets. And now you're purely focused on independence. So just how do you think about what's working, what's not on the independent side of things versus, you know, the big brands?

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I think um, I don't know how controversial you want me to be. I think the, you know, the big brands are in my very. Here we go. This could, this could win an audience or lose one. But I think the big brands, you know, in, in my view, um, are drifting away from operating hotels in spite of what they say in the hma. Um, you know it's not what I think these days they really want to do. I think they want the distribution, um, and I think they want franchise fees and, or, and their fee stream. But I think they are drifting away from really operating hotels. Um, so I think, you know, that is something that uh, when we, when we worked with these brands at Qara, it's an issue we had with, with all of them that they're, they're, they're weak, particularly in the luxury section. Luxury, uh, area. You know, they, they, they focus on obviously they focus where they make the money and there's nothing wrong with that. You know, that's the way it should be. But you know, luxury sometimes is a little bit more challenging for them to really operate and I think they're drifting away from that. So um, that would be something that I think that you know, they either need to make a decision, um, whether they want to be in that luxury space, um, or not. And I, they need to put resources into that, particularly in the HR side and finding the talent. Um, you know, it needs to be a talent rich environment instead of which it is for many of the brands, rather talent poor environment, um, if I can put it that way. Does that sort of answer uh, your question?

Speaker B: I mean it seems like they all want to go after luxury because that's kind of where the money and the growth has been. But it's like, you know, you need to invest in, in the people I uh, would imagine to, to keep up that luxury brand and avoid dilution that we see so often.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I think on the marketing side, on the sort of, the other bit of your question, um, you know, on the marketing side, um, you know, it's no doubt as with the Birgenshot collection, uh, it was a challenge. Um, we did a line when I was there, one of our hotels, the ah, Royal Savoy and Lausanne with leading hotels and that made a notable difference If I can put it that way. Um, it really, um, it was definitely a challenge marketing those properties individually. There, uh, was a reluctance, uh, on behalf of some of the principals in Qatar to bring those guys in. But when we did, um, it really was a. Was quite a successful relationship. Um, the Birkenstock itself, the Birkenstock Resort, um, rather than the other, including the other two hotels in Bern and Lausanne. Um, you know, it's a very strong physical product, a very strong, uh, service product. I won't say it marketed itself, but it, it. We were able to. Because of the strength of that, the product itself, we were able to internally manage the sales and marketing quite successfully. Um, so, you know, the answer is, it depends, um, how you, what, what the strength of your product is, how unique it is, um, you know, how appealing it is. Um, and then you tack on whatever you need onto the back of that. So with independent hotels, um, you know, it is always the problem. Um, things like leading hotels, that's why they exist, because it's a significant challenge for them. Um, uh, and how they manage that distribution. But going back to the big brands, again, you know, I think that's really what they offer. Um, and they offer very strong programs. I mean, you know, Bonvoy is extremely strong. Um, Hilton Honors, and they're great programs. Um, they're flexible, customers love them and they produce. When you get into the luxury sector, um, or the segment, it's a little more challenging.

Speaker E: Uh, I'm curious about the sort of premium, uh, upscale sort of sector. Is there in these conversations that happened over the last few days, is there a lot of talk about new product coming online kind of slightly below maybe, you know, traditional luxury in that more upscale premium space? Or is the market more generally. The markets, I should say more generally, really still focused on sort of the, the luxury segment right now?

Speaker A: Well, I think, you know, I've always believed in yourself from the top. So, you know, the brands, the one reason they like the luxury is it positions there other brands that flow from that. Um, uh, and that's why they love the luxury, or that's why I think they love the luxury, uh, brands. Uh, there was no real talk of new product coming online in terms of brands. I mean, I think there's a little bit of pushback from owners in that. There are, if I can use an example, you know, Accor have a tremendous number of brands behind them. And, you know, we all know why they do that because of HMA exclusivity. And it all sort of, It's Understandable why they do that, but there's a little bit of pushback from owners these days. And are there too many brands? Are there too many? Um, you know, is, is one company spread too broadly across the market? It doesn't matter whether you have a luxury hotel and right next door is sort of, you know, a mid market hotel. But the attention of the overall company, it, it must be diluted. And there's concern that they're just, just too many brands, I think. Um, so that was certainly something that came out. There is, you know, how many more brands can, can some of these guys add? Um, and is the, is the consumer getting confused when they're sort of infinitesimally small differences between certain brands? So yeah, I think from an ownership perspective, uh, and an investor perspective, um, you know, they'd like to see a little more concentration on the core brands or the existing brands and less development of new brands.

Speaker D: Can I ask you a question about the Maldives? I mean, I don't know anybody who hasn't been or who has the Maldives on their bucket list. Um, obviously this was also an Indian Ocean conference. What's happening with the mood there? What's the perspective? Because they've had a tremendous difficult time uh, with airlift over the past period. With confidence. What's happening in that region?

Speaker A: Yeah, it still remains strong actually. Um, met a couple of um, hotel owners, Maldivian hotel owners. Uh, they are, they're continuing to invest, they continue to build. Uh, and uh, overall confidence is, is still remains remarkably strong. You're right. Airlifted. It's always the soft underbelly of any island destination. Um, so uh, you know, when that wobbles, everything wobbles. Um, you know they, they do have a very strong Middle Eastern market. Um, ah, and also their European market tends to hub through Dubai or Abu Dhabi, um, or, or Qatar. So that's been a little bit constricted. So they're suffering there. But, but in the medium and long term, extremely positive. Um, they're no real concerns. Uh, the government is, is very supportive. Uh, you know they, they, they are putting a lot of money into obviously the, you know, the marketing side, the tourism, the wider tourism market, uh, but also very supportive of new, uh, development. So that's continuing to, to do well, um, and continuing to be, you know, a target for capital within the country. Hotel owners who have, have made their money within, within the, the region. Um, so, so that remains strong. Um, an interesting destination that, that came up a, ah, couple of times with Seychelles. Again that, that is becoming a bit More of an interesting destination for investors. Um, it had been, you know, for a while a little bit of a challenge from. To do business locally. Uh, um, but that's improved dramatically in the last five or six years, so it's attracting much more attention. I think we'll see a few more developments coming up there. M. Yeah, I think the other one. One thing that reminded me just. Sorry to interrupt.

Speaker E: No, please.

Speaker A: Going back to, you know, your, Your question on. On market segments. And it reminded me, actually there were a couple of conversations about the way STR is, um, way they categorize hotels, uh, in terms of standards and is there a need for a new ultra luxury, um, uh, segment? You know, we've got upscale, upper upscale, uh, and we keep going up, but should we go up to ultra, ah, luxury? Because it is very different. Um, you know, and it's a different product and it's a different price point. Um, you know, it's, it's breaking the sort of thousand dollar, thousand euro barrier regularly. Um, and so do you need to move away from a, a typical, um, upscale hotel, um, and that market segment. Um, so should they add a completely new segment on top of that, uh, to represent this, this, this new emerging, um, type of product which is ultra luxury, you know, very heavily amenitized, very, um, large rooms, very exclusive. So that, that goes back to that sort of market segment. Question. Yeah. Sorry, Edwin.

Speaker D: No, no, go ahead.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Do you want to talk about the elephant in the room? Saudi. Yeah.

Speaker A: Sally? Absolutely. Um, you know, so how are things doing there? Um, it depends,

Speaker D: like as an intro. Who's not opening there?

Speaker A: Yeah, well,

Speaker D: Neom has gotten a lot of investment. It's not working.

Speaker A: Um, it's

Speaker D: not working yet.

Speaker A: You know, it's not working yet. I mean, there.

Speaker D: But there was an article in Skiff just now, uh, that came out yesterday that uh, big giant budgets for, uh, projects in Saudi are being skimmed down. Uh, I mean, nobody thought Dubai could pull it off and they did. Is Saudi going to be a country like that with, you know, I don't know who's not opening out there, but who's going to fill all those rooms?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, again, it's a great question. I, um, think by, you know, it depends on the location. I think there are, you know, some very different areas. Neom kind of got the headlines a few years ago because of very ambitious projects. Um, but Jeddah remains a very strong market because it's got a strong domestic demand. Um, uh, you know, in Saudi is. It's a big country in terms of Population Riyadh remains strong. It's the center of business. Um, you know it's also the hub that everyone goes through uh, to get to the rest of Saudi. Um so you know, it depends a little bit on location as to how projects are going there. Um, there's no doubt that they are, they are dialing back some of the big project investment, the infrastructure investment, etc. So um, you know, hasn't gone as planned. Um, but they still have great ambition. Remember they've got the World cup coming up. Um you know that is going to add um, significant exposure to them to a, as it did to Qatar. Um, significant exposure to people that are not their typical, um, their typical market. And I, obviously that's why they're doing it or one of the reasons they're doing it. Um so I think what you'll see is it, it continues to burn, um, it's going to be a slower burn than, than they had wanted M. But it, it hasn't changed their ambition to become a significant tourist destination. Um, exactly what is finally built and, and makes it to the you know, sort of the, the big cutting ribbon with the big golden scissors. Um, yeah, see, but I think um, it'll continue to burn and it'll continue have significant investment poured into it

Speaker D: and then all the big, on the reverse side, all the big brands that are opening up. If occupancy doesn't allow for your hotel to realistically exist, I'm sure there's a lot of local capital behind uh, all those assets. But what do you think the mood is there?

Speaker A: You mean in Saudi?

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah, there is. Having a sort of an under uh, occupied hotel is, is a, is a huge challenge, you know. And, and so uh, I don't know, I don't specifically know of any hotels that have been mothballed. Um, but calling a hotel is not a cheap option either either. You know, the, the, the real money you need to spend is, is pushing and continue to push um, getting occupancy and rate in there because a mothball hotel um, rarely reopens as we all probably have known from experience. Um, uh, and, and in the, in the interim while you, while it's mothballed, it's still a very expensive thing to keep taking over. So particularly in that climate, um, where humidity and heat can, can wreak a lot of damage. So I, I think that what you'll see is, is you know, the projects continuing, um, you know, maybe not this fantastic. You know, the line that, that sort of 20 long kilometer or whatever it was, um uh, building. Um, but I think you will see them continue to push to develop, maybe a more modest offering, you know, and a more modest offering in Saudi is still pretty impressive.

Speaker D: Right? Right.

Speaker A: So

Speaker D: it's still a dream. Yeah,

Speaker A: it's still a dream. So I think they'll, they'll continue to push those forward. Um, timeline will be different. Um, the ambition is probably scaled back, but I think you'll see, um, you know, the hotels continue to, to push both through their sort of corporate offices, uh, and, and locally and regionally for that occupancy. There's, there's a lot of business that's available within the region that they can capitalize on. India also, you know, massive market, they are traveling, very big market for the uae. Um, and I think, um, you know, they will be able to tap into that market quite successfully as the destinations develop. So it's not all about, you know, as we sit here, we tend to think it's a lot of. It's about the European and US Markets, Ah, traveling. But, you know, there's that enormous Indian, uh, market on their doorstep a little further away, the Chinese market. Um, so I think you'll see more of a focus looking east, um, to fill those hotels, uh, rather than necessarily it remaining focused on. On European and US Business.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker E: Andrew, I'm curious about, uh, how AI is talked about at a global, more international, more even just Middle Eastern perspective. Right. Obviously, it dominates every conference in the US Right now. I mean, it's forced. You've never seen, uh, you know, the CEOs of the largest hotel brands be as, be as prolific on a topic. Right. And talk so progressively about a new technology. Hotels are, you know, historically way behind when it comes to any sort of technological development. Uh, you've seen the, you know, the CEOs of the largest brands in the world have to answer, right. To the people about how they're leveraging, uh, AI, how it is or is not affecting their respective workforces. I'm curious, in conversations like the ones that, the one that you were just part of over the last few days, how prolific is the discussion around whether how investors are using AI to determine underwriting a particular deal or particular project, whether, you know, we're seeing in the US Right now, for example, management, uh, companies positioning themselves as AI, native management companies. Right. For the first time, those are starting to pop off. How, how, um, prolific is this conversation happening in, in the circles that you find yourselves in?

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think, um, you know what, I would say it's quite interesting. I Mean I, of the developers that were there or the, the development guys of the brands, um, there wasn't much talk of leveraging AI for, you know, doing that, doing those ah, analysis. Um, I didn't, maybe I just wasn't in on those conversations. But in general, um, it's seen that um, AI needs to be deployed um, differently in different segments and uh, different tiers. So it can be used much more extensively in uh, three and four star hotels, uh, more cautiously in four and five star hotels. But inevitably um, it will deliver significant efficiencies in the back office, um, in finance, um, in areas that we probably haven't even thought of yet. Um, certainly, you know those annoying bots when you're trying to make a voice reservation, they're there already. Um, so it's seen as a very, very strong tool and one that can, certainly can drive profitability um, through particularly in the back office which is you know, as we all know that's kind of non productive, non productive real estate there. Um, you know, finance office takes a lot of space, um, and quite a few people in a traditional hotel. Um, if that can be really, um, if AI can be really leveraged there, uh then you know you're able to convert that real estate into, into income producing ah, space. So it's seen as, as absolutely inevitable. Um, uh, and I think in general in that room, you know, it was embraced um, that this is a great thing, it's a great opportunity, um, and we can't let the opportunity and hospitality pass us by because um, you know, really can deliver some huge benefits. But in certain markets and again going back to that sort of luxury and ultra luxury, it still felt that that human touch uh, in service is absolutely critical and people will look for it. In the world where AI dominates everything else. Your banking, your, when you buy a car, whatever you do, when it dominates that um, human touch in luxury hospitality will become even more important. That's a finely crafted, well delivered ah, part of the product. So embraced um, openly. And you're right, I mean hotels are not, not typically on the cutting edge of uh, technology. Yeah,

Speaker E: amazing. Any final questions for Andrew, guys? Otherwise, let's get to some of the biggest stories of the week. Going. I have

Speaker C: a question.

Speaker E: Oh, go. Yes, Scott.

Speaker C: Uh, so you've spent a significant part of your career in the Middle East. Um, you've seen the region's very big ambitions from the inside. So when you look at the extraordinary amount of development taking place, are you confident that international demand can realistically keep up or do you Think some markets are going to discover that building an incredible hotel is much easier than consistently filling it.

Speaker A: We've been sort of asking that question, particularly of Dubai, I would say, um, for the last 25, 30 years. Um, you know, how can they keep filling these, all these rooms? Um, I see there being, um, there's still great momentum there and they still continue to, you know, Dubai particularly still continue to have huge appeal. Um, Chinese market, Indian market, again, those markets we don't necessarily consider when we sit on sort of kind of this side of the pond, if I can put it that way. But they're huge, um, and they embrace that sort of Dubai vibe. I, um, think they can continue to grow. Obviously there will be a point when, um, you know, it sort of demand begins to meet supply, um, much more evenly. Uh, but I, I also think they continue to develop their product. I mean, take Abu Dhabi as an example. Um, you know, it's differentiated itself from Dubai. It's still building some beautiful hotels, some very impressive hotels. Um, it's also broadening its market in the sort of three and four star area. Um, but it's positioned itself as a destination of art and culture. So it's got these incredible museums, the Louvre, the ah, Guggenheim, which are absolutely world class and worth a visit just on their own. So I think, um, you know, I think they will continue to remain very successful destinations. Um, you know, people are traveling so much more. It's sort of unrelated, but I was in Venice, um, a few weeks ago, you know, in October, uh, you know, middle of the week. And it was absolutely packed and, and you know, there's just so many more people traveling and, and they will, they will go to Venice, they will go to Rome, but they will also go to Abu Dhabi. They will also go to Dubai. And I think the region remain, you know, remains, uh, with significant appeal. Uh, and they continue to, to build these, um, destination building projects, whether it's the, you know, we mentioned the world's tallest building. I mean it's still absolutely extraordinary. It's still worth going to Dubai just to see that single building dominating the skyline. So, um, yeah, I, I think the region remains very strong. You know, there will be headwinds, there's some headwinds at the moment. Um, but there's also enormous amount of capital there to, to sort of ensure that um, individual hotels, cities, you know, they continue to get through. So I, uh, I think we will see it continue to grow, is my view.

Speaker C: Is there enough talent out there, qualified talent to fill all these hotels that we're building or is that the next round of investments where we have to invest in schools and training and things like that?

Speaker A: The answer is yes, there is, because. But it depends on how, uh, the governments manage that, that talent pipeline and why I say that, you know, there's a big push in Saudi for what's called Saudi ization, which is to bring more and more Saudis into, into every industry. Um, but they've now been quotas set for, um, Saudi employees at every level, um, in, um, in hotels. So if you, if you. Any level, um, in the Maldives now, they've just passed a law that every HR director has to be Maldivian. Wow. So, you know, do they have the talent to have every HR director Maldivian? Maybe. Uh, but it's part of their nation building process to, to sort of force, to a certain extent, people to take on local talent. Um, and, and that's as it should be. Uh, but, um, you know, in Dubai and, and, and Qatar, you know, you can bring in people. It's a visa process. It's a, you know, you have to get your residency and your work visa, et cetera. But it's possible so that the sort of, the world is their oyster when they're looking for talent, really, particularly at senior exec level. Um, so I don't see talent as being a problem. There's an enormous pool of, uh, great labor in Asia, near Asia, Far Asia. Um, so I don't see the talent. I see that being less of an issue, um, than a few other things.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker E: I mean, that's encouraging. Ah, it's funny, I was thinking too about how my, my, you know, generational cohort, and I think even more so maybe my younger siblings and whatnot, because of social. Right. There are these parts of the world, uh, whether it be, you know, Dubai. I think Dubai is maybe the quintessential example of this, right? Where you're, you're seeing these, you know, Instagram stories, these Instagram reels. And my parents never thought about or talked about going to Dubai, right. Like, let alone anywhere in the Middle East. And yet, like this next generation, it's like I was talking to my younger brother the other day who's 17 years old, uh, and you know, his, his comment when asked, like, hey, where do you want to go? It's Dubai, right? And it's because of these, like, iconic, like towers and buildings, right? And I have another friend who, when, when his, uh, each of his kids turns 10, they get to go like, anywhere in the world. And it's Just like a one on one trip with the dad and the kids. And he just got back from actually going to Dubai with his, with his 10 year old. And so there's this funny momentum too of these, these places. I mean, I went to Amman, Jordan, you know, in 2018, which is again, a place I never would have gone, uh, you know, uh, and, or certainly my parents never would have gone. So it is interesting kind of seeing these, these generations you've grown up with, you know, quite frankly, just a different perspective, uh, on, on the local markets and so, you know, investing in these sorts of assets, investing in these sorts of projects now, betting on the fact that, hey, maybe future generations will have a different perception generally of the region, uh, does seem wise, which is, I mean, that's why they're doing it right, uh, in some part. So, uh, very, uh, very cool. Andrew, your perspective on all this is remarkable. Um, I want to get to some stories, uh, this week and Andrew, we'll go around quickly and I'll kind of weigh in on just our thoughts, our takes on these respective stories and uh, I'll cut you in for sure. So feel free to comment, uh, as much or as little, uh, on these as you'd like. But the first story that made a bunch of headlines, uh, at least in the U.S. uh, uh, markets this week was that Amex partnered with Airbnb. And so Amex card holders now have access to a million, uh, Airbnb listings that they can book directly through Amex. This partnership was launched on October 22nd. So if you're a Platinum Card holder, you earn 5x Membership Rewards points on prepaid Airbnb booking. Airbnb bookings made through Amex Travel. Their green card keeps 3x points and other eligible cards earn 2x points. Points can be earned on Airbnb stays but not redeemed for them. So again, you can earn your points on, on this day, but then you got to redeem them at uh, uh, another Amex partner hotel or, or other partner. The money move is, is really the credit. The platinum credits, $600 hotel credit is now been re. Has now been rebranded as the, as a $600 lodging credit. So for those who are not cardholders, uh, they, they have kept the kind of $300 semiannual installments play. So you get basically $300 in the first half of the year that you can spend towards lodging and then, you know, $300 for the second half of the, of the year. That's obviously, you know, to encourage you to travel more Frequently, uh, as a cardholder, uh, starting January, uh, first of 2027, one night fine hotel and resort stays no longer earn the credit at all, which is another huge change to the program. So one of the big, you know, benefits of booking anything through FHR was getting, you know, your FHR credits, which varied a little bit depending on hotel, but typically included some sort of credit, uh, for FMB on site, you, uh, know, upgrades when available, etc. But now you'll need to stay two or more nights to get your FHR credits for uh, hotels. Uh, you know, this, this partnership in general, uh, is, has been, you've seen reactions all over the board. You've seen people really PO'd at Amex for this move. You've seen other operators, specifically those in the short term rental space, be really excited about it. You've seen still third, you know, third sort of category of operator being PO'd because it wasn't too long ago where Amex is. I think they, I can't remember what they called it guys. It was like residents find uh, residences or something like that, fine rentals or something. Anyways, there was a contingency of folks, professional operators who had helped pilot the rentals and villas program that Amex, you know, sunsetted, uh, in the news that it was partnering with Airbnb. So this is big news, uh, especially kind of the, as Airbnb starts taking on hotels more, more generally. I want to get the entire group's thoughts on this. I think from a consumer perspective too. I did play around with this a little bit. And what's interesting is you have a million Airbnb listings that are not a million fine Airbnbs and fine, you know, Airbnb resort quality listings. Right. So it is kind of an interesting move on amex's front. They went from highly, highly key curated to quite general. Uh, now again they, they are working together to launch a Lux, to kind of relaunch Lux product, uh, at Airbnb, of which Amex will have some exclusive relationship with. So TBD to see how all of that unfolds. But Ben, I want to go to you here first. Ben, what do you think about this move generally, um, both at, from a consumer perspective, but then also from an operator's perspective.

Speaker B: So I mean, look, I think it's huge for Airbnb, uh, number one from a brand perspective just to have association with, with Amex and sit alongside fine hotels. And I mean that's a, a huge sort of category changer I would say. I mean it's it's seismic, really. Um, and you know, Airbnb is getting all this, you know, a million listings worth of shelf space in front of the highest spending cardholder. Cardholder. The highest spending cardholders in the country. So I mean it's, it's really huge, both from a distribution and a brand side of things. Um, I do, yeah, I'm honestly surprised that they're just, you know, putting all of these Airbnb listings on there as opposed to just limiting it to Lux when that relaunches, um, or at least some caliber higher tier of say. It surprises me on the side of things. Um, look, having a million listings on there opens up more transaction volume for them and more volume for them to earn fees. But it is, uh, frankly a surprising brand move. Um, and like the one sort of supposedly silver lining for FHR is that they don't have to give out the credit unless it's at least a two night stay. So it's like less costly to them, but it's also less valuable to the consumer. Right. So is that going to push them more in the direction of the, you know, the luxury Airbnb stays? So, um, the final thing I think is interesting here in Genius for Airbnb, it's, um, been hard for them to get adoption on Airbnb Lux and it's been hard for them to get adoption on Experiences. And um, I'm assuming there's no details on this, but I'm assuming they're kind of funding that adoption through giving this 250 experiences credit for people who do prepaid bookings with Airbnb Lux. Um, so it's kind of pushing people both to Lux and to try Experiences with some of the highest spending, you know, consumers in, in the country and world. So, um, I think it's huge for Airbnb.

Speaker E: It's probably also, you know, a great way for them to do market research with again, high segment of, uh, affluent consumers on how much do people care about loyalty? Right. Because I mean, Airbnb has not launched their own native loyalty program. We've talked about this ad nauseam. This is a, this will be an interesting test case for them to see. Okay, what is the booking share that's coming through Amex and presumably consumers are booking through Amex because of, you know, the points and perks. Right. So this is, I think, uh, an interesting way for Brian and team to test and vet, you know, the, the legitimacy of, uh, what of what an Airbnb program could look like should they, should they decide to pursue something like that. Scott, what about you, man? What do you think?

Speaker C: I love it. It's just chesky being chesky, you know, great, great press release. And, uh, you know, it's. I think hotel hotels should be paying attention to this because this isn't really about somebody choosing between a hotel and an apartment. It's about who influences the decision before the traveler even starts comparing options. You know, MX already has the trust of the cardholders, and the trust is the key word here. Those customers are accustomed to receiving benefits that influence where they spend their money. And if you introduce private residences into an environment that already has attached financial incentives, you're giving people another reason to consider accommodation they might have previously overlooked. I think it's a win all the way around.

Speaker E: M. Edwin, I want to go to you around. One of the differences here, right, Is find hotels and resorts, right? Amex, you know, they would, they would scoff at this characterization, but they basically acted like an ota, right, for, for these, for find hotel and resort, uh, uh, members, meaning they own the consumer relationship. The consumer books through them, but then the service is actually delivered by the hotel. Now you've got the consumer booking through Amex, right, uh, for an Airbnb listing, which Airbnb is an ota to then have the actual service be delivered by the professional manager and, or the host, right? So you've got these, like, three layers of separation now between the consumer and the service delivery component. Like what, what, if anything, do you think is, like, risky about this for either Airbnb or, or Amex, quite frankly? Which is maybe a little bit more interesting? Or is this, uh, not, not a particularly big concern in your eyes?

Speaker D: I don't know. That's a, that's a massive concern. It, it depends on who's going to own the guest at the end, right? And I think Airbnb here still is the platform where all the, uh, transactions end up. I just think it's funny how Airbnb, you know, we talked about this a couple of times, first gets into hotels and then gives those same hotels competition once they're in. I think that was a real, real tricky bit, right? So well played. I mean, there's a, there's a chess move. Um, but, um, you know, I think the, the, the, the, the question here is also why should airbnb own, uh, own this full market? You could also think that, you know, luxury hotels should still allow Airbnb to be the default place to look for a private home in the first place. M. But, um, yeah, I don't Know how this is going to play out?

Speaker E: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I was talking to, ah, a friend who is kind of an industry veteran. He was at Amex for a while. He was at Hyatt before. Um, he's been in the independent space for a while, too. And one of the things he said, which I thought was super interesting, is that Amex didn't have a choice. Like, they've been trying to get into. They've been trying. They understand that their cardholders want to spend on private residences. Right. They know that. And what he said, uh, you know, according to his quote, unquote insider knowledge or whatever, they just needed mass inventory and trying to go to individual operators, which they had tried originally and amass any sort of like, meaningful distribution for their consumer base just proved like, way too convoluted. But apparently, as you know, according to this guy, who knows, but apparently, uh, this was kind of a last resort for Amex is like they gave in. They gave in to like, you know, fine, great. Like, let's do the Airbnb thing. Now, again, who knows if any of that is true, but it's a fun story if it is. Um, Andrew, I want to go to you here, man. Uh, what do you think? Obviously, Airbnb dominates the headlines here in the U.S. uh, probably in other parts of the world as well. But, uh, you know, certainly every market is very, very different. Any perspective on this sort of relationship and how it might have an impact on the, the global market?

Speaker A: I, I think it'll, you know, I think a lot of, A lot of hotel, um, brands will sit up and take notice of this. You know, I think that's a, It's a, It's a big surprise. For me, the sort of surprise is you've got what I would call a sort of mass market, um, product that kind of covers every, almost every type of accommodation. And then you've got something that positions itself right at the very top of the sort of, you know, the travel and, and credit card market. And it's an unusual, in my view, it's. It's kind of an unusual marriage. And maybe it is, you know, maybe it is the last resort. And, um, they wanted to get into this space and they haven't been able to do it with, successfully with anyone else. I see it, I see it as a win for them in terms of the numbers. Um, I can see why they did it. I think it's going to be an interesting one in terms of amex's market positioning tying up with airbnb where they, you know, they. There's every single. There's every possible product on the market now in, uh, Airbnb, Amex have always positioned themselves as sort of.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Member, since, if I can put it that way, you know, an exclusive, um, little group of people that are able to use an Amex card or have an Amex card. Now they're tying up with what is a, you know, a brilliant. I mean, I'm a great fan of Airbnb, but it's, It's a different type of product entirely for what they would typically associate themselves with. So I think that's a. That they're going to have to square that circle.

Speaker E: Yeah. Now, now, to be fair to you, I mean, you've. You have been able to book, right. Uh, two and three star product on amex Travel as a cardholder for a while, right? So, like, obviously these hotels are not part of Finals and resorts or the hotel collection, but, like, you know, you can book, uh, you know, Courtyard Marriott. Right. As a cardholder through Amex, if you want to. You've been able to do that for some time. So Amex is like, gate, right, to the Airbnbs of the world, maybe to the broader travel ecosystem is like. Yes, yes. But it's still an $800 a year membership, right? Like, like, meaning the consumer is still spending, whatever it is, $800,000 now. Right. Uh, to be a cardholder. Right. So that, that will always be the gate, Right. The point of entry that maybe kind of protects them from the risk that you just identified, Andrew. But, um, yeah, certainly, uh, uh, fun and exciting to watch how this plays out.

Speaker D: Maybe the big winner is going to be the hotel that also runs 20 luxury villas.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker E: There you go. There you go. All right, guys, let's go to another story of this week, which I thought was kind of surprising. Um, BWH Hotels told their owners at its Phoenix convention on Tuesday that the parent company is renaming itself to World Hotels after the roughly 250 property collection that it bought in 2019. The 18 brands keep their own names, so a Best Western stays a Best Western, but the global company is shifting to World Hotels. The visible change for travelers is loyalty. Best Western Rewards and World Hotels Rewards merge into World Hotels rewards on January 5th. So this is happening very quickly, with five tiers collapsing into three. Their chief marketing Officer, Joelle park, says no points are devalued and status matching, member rates, et cetera, will all carry over. Their CEO says that the company has outgrown its name from one brand in 2010-18, spanning luxury, boutique, extended stay and economy. He says roughly 96 million travelers who would consider its hotels do not know what Best Western stands for today. He pointed to IHG's 2003 renaming as a precedent for putting an upscale flag over the parent company. The awkward part is governance. BWH is a one hotel, one vote cooperative. About three quarters of its hotels carry the Best Western name in some form and members did not get a vote on the change. In 2019, those same owners voted down a board proposal to convert the group into a for profit corporation. Growth has been flat for the brand, uh, with uh, 3,920 open hotels now versus more than 3,900 in 2019 with 400 plus in pipeline. So I think in large part this brand has been trying to figure out what it means. I know, uh, Best Western in the UK in particular, uh, in other parts of Europe carry a very different connotation than it does in the United States. Um, and I think from a US perspective, this positioning from again, my, my brand perspective is, is great because Best Western is not associated with nice things generally, uh, in the American market. So seems, seems smart from that perspective. But Scott, I want to go to you here first, man. What do you think about this move? And uh, you know what, what do you think it signals about, you know, world, uh, hotels now, um, you know, strategy and positioning in the broader ecosystem.

Speaker C: So here's the funny thing. Um, pre pandemic, my friend was running Best Western Asia Pacific and we got the contract to help them rebrand all their properties in apac. And then the pandemic hit and obviously that contract went away. So I'm very intimate with what they used to be, what they are now, the whole BWH thing. I think it's a very smart corporate move, but it also tells you something about how the company views the Best Western name. And I, uh, wouldn't necessarily call that name cheap. I mean we as Americans, that's what we view. Motel 6, Best Western, you know, they're very much at the bottom of the tier, but it's recognizable, establish, and it represents a market that millions of travelers actually need and use a lot. There's nothing wrong with that. My bigger concern is whether we're confusing a changing corporate identity with the change in customer perception. Now, M. Most guests couldn't care less what the parent company is called. They care about the property, the experience and what they're paying for. As for loyalty, I want to see side by side comparison of actual benefits Redemption value and how members are treated after the transition. You can still preserve somebody's points and still make their loyalty worth less. That's where I'd be asking the tougher questions.

Speaker E: Well said. Andrew, I want to go to you, uh, I'll kick it to you first. And from a, from a global perspective, you might have interacted with these, this brand, uh, at various levels, in various contexts. Any, any thoughts on this, on this move?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's Scott, it's an interesting one. But I think, you know, Best Western, by the way, it is still associated with much the cheaper end of the market here in uh, the uk. Um, and I think, you know, I wasn't aware of the story, so I don't know that the sort of much of the detail behind it. But I think Scott, your point, no one really cares what the parent company is called. Uh, it's not a customer facing name. Probably. You know, they'll never hear that name. So you know, in terms of the rebranding, um, I think that Best Western is confused as to what the product um, really represents. Um, it's a great organization. It's done some wonders for some smaller independent um, retailers. But um, parent company, I don't think uh, uh, is really a relevant thing to the consumer.

Speaker E: Edwin, any thoughts on this man?

Speaker D: Yeah, I mean Wyndham, the story said it, said it already. Wyndham did the same thing. Right. You don't name your brand or your parent company after something that you don't want to be associated with. I mean Louis Vuitton Hennessy didn't choose their cheapest brand either to, to, to, to represent them in their name. So I completely agree. Same thing on Best Western. I really start to think uh, that you know, do we still have relevance in these brands? We talk about a lot about these economy brands. I uh, think we all know that the world's shaking up on what these brands still stand for. Um, and we'll have to see if you know, a Best Western is actually going to get rebranded into something else or if a lot of owners are actually choosing to go elsewhere. Um, I think that's the bigger story here. The rest is a bit potato potato, I think.

Speaker E: Yeah. Uh, we actually talked to the VP of marketing at World, uh, Hotels, uh, in Miami actually. Ben, I can't remember if you co interviewed Jen, uh, Parks with me. I might have done that one solo. Um, but she was incredible. And what was interesting now reading this story was I think she hinted at the possibility of something like this happening way over My head at the time, quite frankly, during the conversation. But what she did share in the conversation, which was fascinating, was that uh, organizationally there, you know, World Hotels obviously has several different brands, several different collections, uh, that, that are luxury, uh, and many that are in that upscale sort of like premium space which historically just hasn't been. It uh, sounds like a strategic, of strategic importance to, to corporate, but maybe this is a signal that they're going to start trying to more aggressively move upmarket, whether it's to retain owners, as you were saying, Edwin, uh, etc. So I don't know. Anytime, you know, someone makes a change like this. Yes. I think, Scott, the easy thing is like the consumer doesn't care but. Right. Maybe from a corporate strategy perspective, it's to signal something that, you know, change, change is underway now. You know, half the time maybe it is just ah, you know, press release as you like to say, Scott, and nothing more. But uh, it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of years. Ben, anything you'd add or any additional perspective here?

Speaker B: I mean, I think it's about owners. It's not about consumers. Right. It's about perception with owners. Um, and I didn't know this, but correct me on this if I'm wrong, but Best Western and sort of their broader hotel group hasn't grown in the last seven years. They've basically been flat, whereas

Speaker E: they lost. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker B: yeah. So, so I mean to me it's a play towards owners and hopefully over time, um, you know, having, just having better branding when it comes to owners that they're excited about signing up with you and probably having a peripher. A proliferation of more brands like a lot of the other big guys do, moving up market, having more options just to capture more owners.

Speaker E: Everyone's after the owners these days. That's, that's the new war. Um, so we'll see. That's where the fun.

Speaker B: I feel like owners actually have leverage for once in a long time. Yeah. You know, so I was talking, we were talking about this a couple, you know, a couple episodes ago. It's like use that leverage, you know, knock those fees down, get, get, you know, whatever you can get more key money. Right. I mean owners really have leverage right now.

Speaker D: Maybe that's where a new loyalty program comes in. Right? A, ah, loyalty program for owners. The longer you stick with your brand, the more points you get or the bigger discount you get.

Speaker A: How do you burn the points though?

Speaker E: Yeah, you earn them with Best Western and you uh, you burn them With. With Marriott. Right. Figure out a way to make that work, uh, in pencil. Maybe it just comes down to contracts that aren't as long as. Who knows? Um, well, guys, uh, for the sake of time, let's go to Spice of the week before we wrap today. So, ladies and gents, here uh, we are. Our favorite segment of the week where we get to talk about something hot, spicy, trendy, just anything that's on our mind this week. Any volunteers to go first? Ben. I'm

Speaker C: m down.

Speaker E: Scott. Oh. Let's go. Scott. Scott. Eddy. Back from the hiatus. Back from his vacation. His. You know, uh, you came back yesterday or last week, but, you know, you were off for a bit, so. Yes. Let's put you in the hot seat, man. What's up? What's hot?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I got back a couple days ago. Um, uh, Andrew, by the way, I was at luxury, uh, hospitality conference in Milan last week, and I was with Shannon from leading and. Okay. Relay. And it was, uh, what a wonderful conference. Have you ever been to that one?

Speaker A: I have, a long time ago. Yeah.

Speaker C: Unbelievable. And I'm speaking there next year. I'm very excited.

Speaker A: Oh, well done. That's great.

Speaker E: And he's going to. He's going to make sure that the pod gets there too. So that's part of his agreement, is that we have to live record episodes. Uh,

Speaker A: and bridge hospitality, too.

Speaker E: And bridge hospitality

Speaker C: as our

Speaker E: official partner. Yes,

Speaker C: I. I also saw that. That. So I have a funny story. So my mother was born in Jamaica, so I grew up in Miami. I'm in Miami right now. And I spent a lot of time in the Caribbean growing up. Uh, cousins and friends lived all over. And I know Royal Pavilion in Barbados really, really well from when I was little. And I'm

Speaker A: Jamaican. I'm. I'm fourth generation Jamaican. Are

Speaker C: you

Speaker A: really? Here we go. Absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah. So my. My mother was born in Kingston.

Speaker A: Me too.

Speaker C: Really? Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: What part?

Speaker A: Well, it was Crossroads, if that means anything to you.

Speaker C: Of course it does. Of course it does. My mother was born in Beverly Hills.

Speaker A: Oh, fantastic.

Speaker D: Excuse me.

Speaker A: Wait.

Speaker E: There's a Beverly Hills Jamaica.

Speaker C: It's in the hills overlooking Kingston. It's. It's actually very cool.

Speaker A: It's very. Did

Speaker E: they just not come up with a better name or something?

Speaker A: Who followed who?

Speaker D: Yeah. Which existed first. Exactly.

Speaker E: That's fair. I have no idea. I failed history. Um, okay, well, Scott, what's your spiciness here other than, you know, having a new compadre?

Speaker C: Yeah, I got. I got a new cousin. I got a, uh, so I've been thinking about something lately that I believe could be one of the biggest changes to our industry, uh, in a while. And the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether hospitality executives are concentrating on the wrong things when they talk about the future of technology. Think about this. What if the most powerful company in hospitality ten years from now doesn't own a hotel, doesn't operate a hotel, doesn't employ a GM, and doesn't even have a traditional booking website? What if its entire business is understanding travelers better than the hotels understand them? Now, I want people to think about that, because we've spent decades building an industry around physical properties, recognizable brands, loyalty, distribution. But we're getting closer to a world where the company with the greatest influence, Influence over hospitality spending might be the one that controls the customer's decision, not the one that actually delivers the experience. Now, here's a scenario. Imagine having a personal AI assistant that knows your travel preferences better than any hotel loyalty program ever could. It knows what kind of hotels you enjoy and whether you prefer smaller, independent, or larger resorts, what you typically spend. It also understands that your preferences change depending on why you're traveling. If you're going somewhere for business, it knows the convenience and efficiency matters. If you're traveling with your family, it understands that you need something completely different. So instead of spending hours searching websites, reading reviews, comparing prices, you know, the ways that we used to do it, Your assistant does all the research, identifies the best options and. And presents recommendations based on what are, uh, you. What it already knows about you. Now take it one step further. What happens when the assistant can also negotiate pricing, arrange transportation, coordinate restaurant reservations, manage the experience, and handle all the changes to your itinerary. Suddenly, the traveler has very little reason to interact with traditional booking trans platforms during the planning process. Just something to think about.

Speaker E: We're. We're pretty close. We're not far.

Speaker C: We are close.

Speaker A: I don't think it's far away. Absolutely

Speaker C: it's not.

Speaker A: Yeah, no,

Speaker E: lots of questions there. Lots, um, we could dive into. But, Ben, what about you, man? What's spicy in your world?

Speaker B: Mine dovetails into this a little bit. Um, so I think the, the big brands are realizing that they have to reinvent themselves, right? Owners are pissed or at minimum, disillusioned. The value of the brand. I think the big brand is plummeting. Sort of this whole idea of, um, reliability, safety, all that is sort of not there anymore because you have LLMs that can parse thousands of reviews and tell you if something's A good hotel or not. So, like, just having that stamp of approval of a brand doesn't mean what it used to. And people want more of these like story led independents now. So I think the big brands are trying to figure out how to reinvent themselves. I mean, Hilton just rebranded as a team tech company. Apparently we didn't get to that story, but you know, they're trying to get in the Nasdaq, um, which is kind of wild, uh, you know, Best Western changing its name. I mean they're all, I think, having a little bit of an identity crisis and trying to figure out where their value is in this new world. Um, I actually think that if Hilton gets it right, their play of trying to push more towards a tech company could work. Hotels, um, as we've talked about multiple times, are usually pretty bad with technology. So if they could become like the best tech stack and just focus, you know, get the best talent, you know, in tech and innovation and offer that up in a way that's easily integrated with hotels, there could be real value there. So it's just interesting to me. I think the big brands are finally waking up and like, we have to reinvent ourselves and it's just going to be a very interesting few years to see what that means and if they're able to do it.

Speaker C: But, uh, Ben, when are they going to wake up to marketing and social media? I'm still waiting for that. For, for 17 years I'm waiting.

Speaker B: I just. Yeah, I don't know. It seems like owners, Owners get it. It seems like owners get it. I was just talking to Zach who, you know, had a conversation with someone who talks with like tons and tons of the best hotels in the world. And one of their biggest asks is how to increase their social driven direct bookings. But, um, you know, the big brands still aren't doing it. I don't, I don't know, I don't get it. I think they're too scared, Scott. It's always been too scared on the liability front to push the envelope, to do something different, to hop on trends. It's, um, got to go through too many layers of approval. It kills all creativity. So, um, I mean to me that like, they don't, they're not structurally built for it.

Speaker C: So I'll be at the, I'll be at the grand opening of the first Nomad hotel in Asia in Singapore in a few weeks. Um, and my, my good friend runs it, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask him if he wants to come on and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that's, that's gonna be a good guy. And he's from Mexico. Like, he understands the whole thing so good, dude.

Speaker E: Uh, on your point, Ben, I mean, like, hotels, whether, whether they're Hilton pulls off being perceived by the public markets as like a tech company or not, I think is, you know, tbd. But I mean, they did hire their new CTO was from Uber, right? Um, and previously Uber cto. So, I mean, they're, they're, you know, leaning, they're, they're leaning hard there. But beyond that, I mean, their hotels sit on some of the most interesting consumer data sets of any other business, right? Like what you spend, you know, who you bring, right? How long you stay, where you go within that ecosystem. I mean, it's, it's, it's wildly valuable and you know, whether your, your agent, whoever it is, is only going to be as good as the data set that it has access to. And so I think to, uh, your point, hotels are sitting on this gold mine. Now my, my contacts will tell me that the Hiltons and the Marriotts of the world have no consistent tracking right between hotels. And their tax is, is a complete disaster. So it might not be as, as, as valuable as, as we might think it is. But for those who do have good data, architecture and structure, I mean, they are, they are sitting on a gold mine. Uh, one quick spicy thing for me this week. I got the privilege of sitting down with Michael Fursten, who's the co founder of Pendry Hotels, uh, and Resorts, uh, this week in New York at their, uh, property in, in Manhattan West. Incredible guy. Really, really great conversation. The thing that stood out to me and that I think is spicy is Pendry's sort of like, for those who aren't familiar, they're part of Montage International. His father started Montage, he started Pendry, and, uh, Pendry prides itself on every Pendry hotel being distinct, right. And having its own sort of universe built around it. But they're at, I think, 10 hotels now. They've got a couple that haven't opened yet. I think by Q1 of 2028, they'll be at 12 or 15 or something like that. And he says now from a brand perspective, one of the challenging things, uh, even from a valuation perspective is because everything is so different, it's really hard for both investors and then ultimately like, you know, consumers to understand what makes a Pendry a Pendry. Right? And so his, his thoughts, which I thought were like really on, on the nose this week, were hey, if you have, as an entrepreneur ambitions of building a hotel brand and scaling that brand uniqueness is great to a point. And then you, you do really have to wrestle with like, what is it about Pendry that will be consistent, uh, across. Across the board if you want, you know, the brand to have any sort of material, uh, worth longer term. So anyways, for what. For whatever that thought is worth. I wanted to share that because I thought it was um, just very timely, uh, given the things that we talk about on the show often. Edwin, spiciness from you.

Speaker D: Yeah. I'll make mine much more practical. Uh, I would ask every owner or manager, uh, of the hotel to go spend the night in their own room, uh, sit, uh, try, uh, to plug in the uh, water boiler, etc. Because, ah, I've just spent, uh, a day in Barbados. I'm now in Antigua. Uh, I've, uh, chosen on purpose to stay in, uh, small beach cottages. And I don't think I've been able to plug in my water boiler anywhere but on the floor. Um, or, uh, having to look for. To plug the toaster into the bathroom, um, have to sit in a chair that's just not, you know, comfortable to sit on. Plus it doesn't reach the. The right height of the table. Um, so it's, it's the, it's the. The old back to basics. Go sit. Go eat in your own restaurant. Go sit in your, you know, sleep in your own room. See if it's practical and take it from there. Because we're missing a lot of details.

Speaker C: It's a lost start.

Speaker A: M. Yeah.

Speaker E: Andrew, last but certainly not least, what's spicy

Speaker A: just in

Speaker E: your world?

Speaker A: Touching on a little bit of what, um, what Ben was saying and Edward was saying. You know, it's the, it's the rush to over amenitization of hotels. You know, I think we're. We're a lot of. A lot of brands, a lot of even individual hotels, you know, they're rushing to over amenitize and. And with that, you know, eroding some of the value of the distinctiveness of hotels, if I can put it. I think, you know, rather than spending money on all of these extras, you know, three new paddle boards, you know, and all of this and spa, uh, um, technology much, um, better for a hotel to focus on those core, core elements. Whatever they think they're good at, stick to that. Some amenities are absolutely necessary. But there is a rush to this sort of over amenitization that confuses people and they also think I'm paying for a lot of this stuff, but there's m so much of it I can't use it. And I think we need to be careful there.

Speaker E: Well said. Well, Andrew, thank you so much for making time for us today. It was an absolute pleasure to have you on and to hear your perspective. We don't often get to talk about the industry from a global perspective, uh, you know, a Middle Eastern perspective, uh, in particular. So thank you for, uh, sharing some thoughts based off of your recent encounters with leaders in the space. Gentlemen, uh, thank you as always for joining me on this week in hospitality. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Like, comment, subscribe, wherever you get your podcast. Andrew, if it's okay with you, we'll have your LinkedIn, uh, in the show notes below and your website in the show notes below. So if folks want to connect, they can connect with you that way.

Speaker A: Super. Fantastic. Thank you. Great to meet you. Wonderful.

Speaker D: Yes, thank you, guys.

Speaker E: Guys,

Speaker A: take care.

Speaker E: Thanks for joining us this week. If any part of today's conversation sparked an idea or helped you think differently about the industry, we'd love to continue the conversation. You can find each of us on LinkedIn, on X, on Instagram, or whatever your preferred social platform of choice is. Links to all of our profiles are in the show notes below. This week in Hospitality is presented by Journey. Journey is a loyalty platform built specifically for independent boutique hotel hotels and high touch hospitality brands. Our mission is to give operators the same powerful rewards engine, data, intelligence and guest insights that major chains rely on without asking them to give up the individuality, the soul and the story that makes their property so exceptional. At a moment when travelers are craving unique, meaningful experiences and operators are navigating rising OTA costs, um, fragmented data and shifting expectations, Journey provides a unified ecosystem system that strengthens guest relationships, increases direct bookings and helps independent properties thrive on their own terms. We're building a global curated alliance of exceptional hotels, villas and residences. A network that rewards exploration, empowers individuality and gives independence the scale that they deserve. If you're an owner or operator of an extraordinary independently owned and operated hotel or residence, and if you want to see whether your property is a fit for the driver, Journey alliance, you can learn more and apply@alliance.journey.com all right, friends, we'll see you next Friday. Until then, keep building experiences that are worth remembering.