Chantell Walsh, Strategic Hotels & Resorts

Speaker A: Hi, I'm, um, Stacey Schumacher Rawan, editor in chief of Hospitality Design magazine with HD's what I've learned podcast. Every other week, we sit down with the stars of the design world to learn about their journey, where they are now, how they got here, and what they've learned along the way. Together, we'll get inspired, hear behind the scenes stories about some of the world's most notable hospitality projects, hear the ups and downs of creating a business, and dive headfirst into all things design. From architects and designers to hoteliers and entrepreneurs, and all of the multifaceted talents in between. Join me to meet the passionate people who make up this industry.

Speaker B: I think this industry is built on trust and collaboration, and I, uh, would, you know, never underestimate the power of storytelling. But again, you know, the design resonates emotionally and, you know, making the space unforgettable is. Is something we should all be lucky to do in our careers.

Speaker C: Hi, I'm here with Chantel Walsh of Strategic. Hi, Chantelle. Thanks so much for joining us today. How are you?

Speaker B: I'm good. Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Speaker C: Yeah. Excited to chat. So we always start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

Speaker B: I grew up in a pretty small town in central Minnesota. Um, didn't have a lot of things to do, so we spent most of time running outside and basically creating our own fun. I think we were one of the last generations that grew without any distraction, so we kind of had to design our own, uh, adventures.

Speaker C: Yeah. Was there any inkling that design would be in your future? Were you a creative kid or surrounded by creativity by anyone?

Speaker B: I spent a lot of time hoarding graph paper, and I would sit in my room and draw floor plans, and each time I'd kind of, like, make minor modifications to them. Um, but I also just played a lot of team sports. I wouldn't say that there was, like, a strong inkling towards design, but I think I had it created a foundation that was kind of going in that direction. And I think, you know, the shared goals of, like, a bigger picture, working as a team on team sports, like, definitely gravitated towards my career path.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: What did you play?

Speaker B: I played softball, volleyball and basketball.

Speaker C: Nice.

Speaker B: I was only good at one of the three.

Speaker C: Which one was that?

Speaker B: Uh, softball.

Speaker C: Okay. It's a good one to be good at.

Speaker B: Yeah. I was not telling. I had no career in basketball.

Speaker C: But you tried. That's all.

Speaker B: I tried.

Speaker C: That's the point.

Speaker B: I tried, yeah.

Speaker C: Um, okay. So you went to school for architecture, though. So what drove you to pursue that route. How did you end up with, you know, going to school for that?

Speaker B: So I spent most of high school kind of taking all the architectural and art classes that they offered. Um, and I pretty much sealed my fate in that I would say one of my drafting instructors in architecture set me up with a job shadow with a firm in Minneapolis called KKE Architects. And they basically did a lot of institution work, um, and followed the educational sector so that he sent me with the job shadow. And I went there one day and they sat me in a room with their whole studio and they're working on a new construction school. And they started asking me these questions like, what do you. Like, is daylight important to you when you're in the classroom? And how about the sound? And what do you do during the in between classes? And kind of like sparked this interest that, like, it, it made me realize that design can evoke feelings and emotions. And I feel like that really, like sealed the deal of like, going to college and pursuing, um, architecture as a career path.

Speaker C: And then did college help? Did that.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Again. Yeah. Did college foster that? Yeah.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, Yeah. I wouldn't say it was hospitality focused, but I mean my career was, or my, um, college degree was in architecture. So it was all design based.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Amazing. M. So what were some of your first jobs out of college and what were some of the biggest takeaways before you got to strategic?

Speaker B: So I, I wouldn't say my first job was life changing. Um, I would say my second job was. And that was a architecture firm that I worked at here in Chicago that was based on, like, uh, me and modernism. You know, M was obviously big here in Chicago. Um, and I had the privilege of working really closely with one of the principals of the firm, Greg Cobel. And he kind of was one of those principals that let you struggle and he would never give you the answer. So I'd have to go through and sift through drawing sets, try to find the details. Um, and then I'd finally come to his office and be like, like, I'm, I'm failing. I can't figure this out. And he would roll out this giant piece of trace paper and sit down and like, draw through the details with me and say, this is where you went right? This is where you went wrong. And I think that mentorship was pretty much everything that taught me how to think critically. And it taught me that design is much about the process as it is the product. And I think that guidance is something that's really rare these days. That you can't find in a lot of firms that, that like one on one attention, so I'll never take that for granted. He was an awesome mentor to have.

Speaker C: That's amazing. And then how did you get introduced to Strategic?

Speaker B: I was introduced by an asset manager at the time that I, uh, knew as an acquaintance. And it was right after like the crash, when nobody was really doing new construction and architecture firms weren't doing anything. And he, uh, mentioned that he worked at Strategic. He mentioned that they were looking for in house design support. And it was kind of a time where like, everyone was just doing like very small interior renovations and they were just doing it in house. So they brought me in. I was actually, um, it was like 2010, so I started as a consultant before actually hired at Strategic. Um, and that was kind of the pivot that changed everything. It wasn't the path I planned, but, you know, ultimately it's where it landed.

Speaker C: And you've been there now 14 years. Congratulations.

Speaker B: Yeah, 15 if you include the consultant phase.

Speaker C: But yeah. Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and so how is it your role there changed and you know, how has the company evolved? I mean, from where you began to where you are now?

Speaker B: It's been a roller coaster, to say the least. Um, there's been a lot of executive change over the years. We were, you know, publicly traded when I started working. We're now private. We've had different ownerships. I'm sure that will continue. Um, you know, I've had, I think, three different bosses since I've been here. Maybe four or three. Um, but it's been awesome just because each one of them has like their own special role. And I feel like they own their own background of expertise. And I think it's a small team. It's really just Tim Taylor and I, and we kind of oversee everything from concept, scope, all the way through execution. So it's small and mighty, but like it's, it's an adventure at the least.

Speaker C: Yeah. So how many projects are you working on at a time with the small and mighty team and talk a little bit about your process and how you do that with, you know, only three.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Like, how do we do that?

Speaker C: Um, it's a good time figured out.

Speaker B: At any point in time it can be. I think right now I probably have probably 20 projects. Um, but they, they vary in scale and that can go up to like, there's times where we may have 60 projects between the two of us, but we've got teams on every project. Um, some of the smaller Projects I'll do in house. If they just need some furniture refresh or a suite, I may just do it myself and make the specs, uh, hire purchasing agent, things like that. Um, so it kind of varies, but we have to really trust the people we hire, basically.

Speaker C: So talk to me about that. How do you pick a collaborator? What do you look for in a collaborator? And then what do you think defines a successful collaboration?

Speaker B: I think, like we said, it starts with trust. And I think you have to really have a clear vision, not only for yourselves, but also for your consultants on what the project scope is. But I think the best outcomes are really when both sides have respect for that vision. And ultimately the creativity needs to meet the business logic. So we try to hire people that we've worked with. It's hard to hire people you haven't worked with. And if I do, it's going to be in a smaller project, first and foremost, just until we get that trust level. Because we don't really approach the relationship of, um, like, we trust everything you do. It's earned. So it takes a while.

Speaker C: And then what type of projects are you working on? Do you guys mostly live in upscale luxury or do you have a, you know, broader scale of projects or. Talk to us.

Speaker B: You know, we've sold a couple of our assets over the last few years that were probably our three top luxury properties. So historically, we've always been a luxury resort company. Um, we've sold the three top luxury resorts. We still have luxury assets, but we kind of have a little bit more, um, urban properties right now. So the rent, the projects are typically always renovations, rehabilitations. We rarely do new construction, ground up. There's a couple things that we will do that we have actual real estate. Um, Fairmont, Scottsdale, probably, uh, Ritz Carlton, Huffman Bay and Ritz Laguna. I would actually have real estate where we could do some new construction. Um, but for the most part, it's mostly renovation projects. Anything from guest room renovation to restaurant to, uh, an exciting parking garage. I don't know, it can go all over the place.

Speaker C: Exciting parking garage? Yeah.

Speaker B: I was like, I don't want that one.

Speaker C: No is ever exciting, but maybe it's.

Speaker B: It's been going on and like, the most exciting thing I think has been, like, the paint color of it right now. So.

Speaker C: Yeah, but you can get creative.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, so you kind of fell into hospitality. What is the. What do you love most about it? What's kept you there? Um, you know, kept you in this. In this business.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I love the, you know, that we get to craft this stage for the guest experiences and it can be elegant and immersive, but I think to be true, truly honest, it's honestly the people that we work with behind the scenes and it's a global industry, but it's actually a close knit family and you're kind of collaborating with passionate creative minds and that's what makes it such a rewarding process. Um, you know, I think we all know all these, you know, everything that we all go to. Like it's a small industry and it's special. It's, it's fun to have these relationships.

Speaker C: No. 100%. I do think, you know, I've attended other industries, you know, other events and other design industries and like, there is just something about hospitality. It's like, I don't know if it's like you've been through the wringer together or, you know, what it is, but like, uh, there is that camaraderie and um, for lack of better word too, it's incestuous. Everyone's worked together at some point.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure that, you know, the accounting and tax conventions are thrilling, but I don't think they can hold a candle to us. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: Uh, okay, so we kind of talked like big picture, your projects, but has there been a recent project that you're really proud of or that really, you think sums up like, what type of work you're doing at Strategic?

Speaker B: Um, I think, you know, the two biggest projects that we've had right now that, you know, I think we're still coming up from Aaron. One is opening the Regent Santa Monica, um, converting that flag from a Lowe's to a Regent and reducing the key count. That was a big renovation. And then, um, obviously opening the Waldorf New York this week was a huge undertake. It's been closed for nearly eight years. I've been on it since I think 21. None of us can actually remember when we started working on this project. It's like kind of actually that we can't figure out what year it was. Um, but those are big undertakings. And I think I said the other day, you know, it's rare. The world of New York like really defines an era. And it's been an honor to like be part of that project and be involved, um, and unveiling it and kind of giving it back to the city to, to endure. Um, those are both really special projects that they sort of take the life out of you, but they also are so rewarding and you know, the learning process of those projects is never over. There's always new challenges.

Speaker C: Okay, let's dive into the Waldorf a little bit, because I do. It's such an iconic property, and, you know, like you said, been closed for eight years. Everyone's been waiting with bated breath for this to open. Um, no pressure. Uh,

Speaker B: the one question I can't wait to never have to answer again is, when is it going to open?

Speaker C: You're like, it's open, it's done. Um, but I mean, just give some context. I mean, how many? And you don't have to know all the exact numbers, but there were so many different people that worked on it. And actually, um, preserving it was such a huge undertaking, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. The historic preservation and then making the decision to landmark certain areas and restore it back to its original glory, um, I think that was such a special move, albeit costly. Um, no one is ever going to do what we did to that property ever again. Like, at least not in our lifetime. Maybe in, you know, 75 years, something happens, but it is what it is. No one's ever going to kind of take that undertaking again. Um, but the meticulous detail that went into preserving it and giving it story back is really special. Uh, I hope that when people go there, they. It kind of evokes nostalgia. I hope it evokes a positive feeling when they get there and they realize how much work actually went into it. Yeah.

Speaker C: And you said you had, like, hundreds of artisans, you know, just doing the ceiling work and the, uh, you know, unearthing. And the cool thing that I found, too, that you guys use the old photos, the documentation of what it was and now comparing to is pretty impressive. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, even down to the drapery in the ballroom, uh, P did a fantastic job of kind of. Luckily we had all these great archival photos, but they really relied on those photos to kind of replicate, in a slightly modern way, um, a lot of the history and exploring those details. But having the scaffolding set up in every single ballroom and jade and Aster and Basildon, and seeing the workers hand paint the murals and, um, getting them back to their original layer of actual paint. Um, and then they had a plaster shop set up on one area where they're hand making all the plaster moldings and the motifs on site. So there's a lot that, you know, hopefully we'll be able to unveil some of the photos of that process at some point, because I think people would really appreciate the detail that went into

Speaker C: that 100% and you said too, in that big ballroom, I mean, it's what can fit like 1500 people and it's three tiers of seating. Um, but that, you know, having the scaffolding all the way up to that ceiling was. Must have been really impressive.

Speaker B: Yeah. Before they took it down, I went up there and just like touched the ceiling with like a finger because I was like, I'm never going to touch a ceiling again. Yeah, especially that ceiling.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think they did a great job of actually. What you don't actually see is the modernization that went into all those rooms. So they still look histor and traditional and have that grander, but they now have lights that can like automatically drop down and, and make it a, a modern event. So, um, merging those two worlds together will. Will give it some advancement.

Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. And then the Regent Santa Monica, very different.

Speaker B: That was like a lightning speed renovation. Uh, I think we. Gosh. I think we did that in less than two years. I think we closed it, started the design process. We started the design process without even having a brand on board yet. So I knew it was going to be a luxury hotel, but we still had the RFP out. So we didn't know if it was going to be, uh, Four Seasons, a Park Hyatt Regent, what it was going to be. I just knew I had to design a luxury model room and everything else. And we knew to do that, you had to increase your square footage for a hotel room. So we dropped key count basically by half and started that renovation and design process. Um, and then eventually brought IHG in. But it was mostly designed, I think, at the tail end. We started, um, doing the specialty suites with them. But it's a beautiful property that, you know, they've had a little bit of struggle with some of the stuff that's going on and, you know, fires and everything else that's gone on in la. But, um, it was a fun project. It was probably the, the first project where I think it was truly our vision at strategic to execute that from aesthetics to scope to the deliverable. Um, it's pretty rare you get that opportunity in the career.

Speaker C: Yeah. And it was also the first Regent here in the States too. So then you added that layer.

Speaker B: Well, the original one was Regent Beverly Hills from the movie Pretty. And so they, they brought it back kind of.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I m. Was like, wait, does it have to look like that?

Speaker C: Do you remember when she wrote read Bev Will. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Pretty Woman. Yeah, totally.

Speaker B: We kind of in the riddle, in the beginning, we're like do we need a suite name to like something related to the movie? Like I don't think actually people realize that the brand is the same brand as that.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's kind of fun. It'd be a fun marketing campaign.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Is there other projects on the boards that you're looking forward to?

Speaker B: Um, I've got a, you know, we've, we've got all of our big heavy projects done. We're kind of back in design phase right now. I've got a, some specialty suite projects that I'm pretty excited about. We're doing a very fast, uh, Four Seasons project in Silicon Valley that I'm usually all up for a challenge, but this one actually gives me anxiety. Um, so I brought my A team on every avenue and somehow we'll hopefully get this done before Super Bowl. But, um, a lot of sweet projects we just closed at Ritz Laguna. We just did a full rooms, corridor suite, club, lounge, spa and pool renovation there. So it's kind of the point. We've kind of gotten to the point where a lot of our properties were like, we've just renovated. You guys gotta fly now. So it's a lot of smaller projects we're coming, coming back to in design phase.

Speaker C: Well, that's kind of nice after all you've been working on. So maybe I know I need some

Speaker B: like, self care at some point.

Speaker C: Yeah. And then talk to me too. Uh, you just mentioned suites. I feel like there's been a resurgence. Like, I feel like the industry went all public spaces. Right. And guest rooms were not forgotten, but they weren't pushed. Does that make sense? And now I feel like everyone is like, oh, everyone wants, you know, that residential home away from home. There's more, you know, group travel, uh, you know, uh, multi generational travel. All these different things that are now putting a, ah, focus back on suites and guest rooms. Would you agree? And you know, how are you guys approaching them?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that definitely the specialty suites kind of took like a backseat for a while and they kind of were like the forgotten child a little bit. And we're trying to reposition some of those suites too because I mean, to be honest, the money that people will pay for some of those suites per night is kind of insane. Um, and so we've got quite a few projects actually where we really pushed capital into renovating suites. I just did um, all of our suites at Four Seasons DC with Forest Perkins and then obviously we did a lot at Ritz Laguna region Santa Monica, Half Moon Bay. I'm about to do Silicon Valley. Then I've got a spectacular one at Essex JW that we're going to do that has a panoramic view of Central Park South. Um, and we're trying to make them a little bit more functional too. Not just from an aesthetic standpoint, but there's not a lot of product out there anywhere that has the ability to be like a four bedroom suite, unless you're in a resort Caribbean area where you can get a villa or something like that. But like, we're trying to create the flexibility where, like, if a family wants to come and create a four bedroom walk off or a delegation wants to come and they want to have their private security in one room adjacent to them or anything like that. So I think there's a lot more attention on how those are configured, which is sparking some interest. But it's also, like you said, we're trying to make them feel more, uh, residential, evoke kind of a feeling when you walk into them that it feels comfortable. I feel like we all kind of went through that bland phase of a color palette and then it like bold and maximalism. And then I feel like we're now trying to balance the two a little bit and have kind um, of a blended old with new. And maybe it's not all the furniture is new. Maybe you find like an antique chest and you put it in the corner or something like that. So something that starts to feel a little bit more nostalgic. Yeah.

Speaker C: 100. And also, like, where do you spend the money right on these. I think that's really important, especially as budgets are tight and, you know, as you're mentioning, lead times are short. So how do you look at that as well?

Speaker B: That's. I don't know that I have solved that answer yet. Someday, uh, I think we've got to like, choose our battles. I think the construction is killing us a little bit, but it's been, it's been hard. Right now I think we're all kind of navigating this, the challenges together. And especially with FF and E. Finding partnering with the right vendors right now is really key. I was just talking to someone the other day that we need to start doing some factory tours of new vendors and find out who else is out there right now. Um, but it's trying to be mindful of the design too. You want to have it impactful, but it needs to be cost effective too, because everything's 2x what we plan for.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Making budgeting a challenge, I'm sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker C: What do you think? I Guess this is a good segue. Like, what is your take on the industry today? I mean, with all the different challenges out there. I mean, you know, from where you sit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, what are your.

Speaker B: We're all kind of navigating this moment that demands more nuanced thinking, and it's kind of a departure from our usual approach to projects. Uh, but I think the upside to that is I'm optimistic that the challenges will spark a meaningful shift in the industry, both from design aesthetics, but also how we attract and cultivate creative talents. I think it's kind of the shift we need right now.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I don't think we're. We're quite through it, but I'm kind of hopeful that we're all kind of. It feels like we're in this transition right now and we haven't made it all the way through, but I'm hopeful that it's going to be a positive change.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But we're still struggling.

Speaker C: Still trying to get through it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: Oh, yes, we will. I mean, I think that's the interesting thing, though, about hospitality, is we are. It is a resilience, you know, like, I mean, who would have thought five years ago hotels would come to a halt? And now, you know, the industry has seen a, uh, reboot, you know, and now I think every challenge offers a new opportunity.

Speaker B: Definitely. I think it's going to demand people to think differently and they're either going to survive it or they're going to not. And I think that's what's going to help us a little bit, actually, is, uh, maybe getting some fresh talent in. In the, in the pool. Yeah.

Speaker C: And how, I mean, I think too, like, we touched on suites and rooms. How are you also looking at wellness? And, you know, he just mentioned you need some self care. You know, like now rethinking to the changing traveler and their needs and looking at, you know, um, different experiences. Right. Because, like, I mean, I say experiential stays so many times, but, like, how are you looking at all these elements that really create a stay? And I m. Guess my other question too is like, how much are you using of guest feedback, too, um, to help guide what you all do?

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, it's kind of interesting too, because I think from a luxury standpoint, they don't really follow trends because the luxury guest has the same expectation, and those don't really pivot a little bit too much. And they're not necessarily what someone, uh, in their early 20s, early 30s is not going to have the same demands of someone who's in their 60s in a luxury hotel. So it's, I feel like you got to like separate the two conversations sometimes when you talk about luxury. But I think all of them do. Regardless. Wellness is not really a trend anymore. It's just, it's, it's inherent to the design that we all have to incorporate. Um, I think what we're trying to do is really just anticipate the guest need in, in every situation. And I treat, whether it's a, a four star or three, four, three or four star property, I treat it the same aesthetically from a scope and guest perspective as I would a luxury. Even if my budget's going to be different because, you know, I think it's about, you know, what are those little touches and those moments that change a guest perspective and feeling when they're in a room. And it might just be having a Dyson hair dryer or having makeup, uh, wipes or something at the vanity that a typical hotel room is not going to have. It's a very small touch that can change your perspective in it. Um, and just having flexibility, I don't know that it's necessary create a little bit more creating efficiency. But the wellness part of it, I think can only go so far because I'm probably not going to be putting saunas in every guest room anytime soon. But like, I can like, you know, enhance the spa for sure in the fitness center. Um, but I think we're trying to approach the experiences and being offered, um, personal training in the fitness center, little things like that, the experiences. But you know, it's not necessarily a trend. It's just what we need to do from now on. Unfortunately, not unfortunately, but it's a good thing, I guess.

Speaker C: I think you brought up an interesting point too, like the, the age difference. And you know, there is this new, there's a bunch of different research that shows, uh, younger generations will actually pay more and they're looking for that luxury experience. So like, has that changed a lot too in your tenure and how you look at, you know, it's not just for kind of the more wealthy older generation. It is wealth has, you know, kind of dispersed, I guess, across generations. So, you know, is that something new and challenging and exciting too, because you get to look at it from different lenses.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's more, it comes down to a little bit more. The product is probably still going to be the same, but I think from a service standpoint that's maybe where it pivots a Little bit as to catering to maybe someone who's later in age that maybe needs a little bit more handholding versus like a younger generation that's going to come into a luxury hotel and just like, you better anticipate the need, you better have everything in their phone and like, maybe don't talk to them.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, like they don't, like, they don't like phone calls or conversations.

Speaker B: Hand them the key and let them go. So I think from that same point, that's why it comes down to a service. And we try to push Forbes training in a lot of our properties, but I think how the, the operation teams handles those guests is changing a little bit, but from a product standpoint, it's, it's a little bit more the same.

Speaker C: Okay, and do you work with your operations team to kind of like. Because I do think it's also letting them know the story of this space and, you know, making sure that design thread continues as a conversation to the training. Is that something a of importance to you all? Definitely.

Speaker B: It probably depends on whether it's like a bigger change. Um, so if we've kind of, you know, I'd say Ritz Laguna right now. We really tried to reposition the property just because the, the design over the years had been a bit of a band aid and a patchwork process. And I think even Ritz Carlton as a brand has been, um, modifying their approach and who they are, and it's been of a sliding scale. So I think we're trying to back into that a little bit more, but also be cognizant of guests are, and, and what they want. Um, but we were trying to get it to be a little bit more authentic. Um, we were really trying to kind of talk to the property about like, who those guests are, what are the complaints, but also really looking at the comp set and seeing, you know, what does Montage have, what does Waldorf have, what are, what does everyone in the vicinity offer that we don't? And what do we need to do differently, um, to, you know, sort of steal their guests a little bit, but,

Speaker C: um, take them over?

Speaker B: Um, yeah. So I think it always depends. You always have to work closely with them and get their feedback and talk about, especially from a rooms perspective or a restaurant, like, what's working, what's not working, what do we need to fix that should be always in our goals and our, our scope to begin with. The design team needs to be cognizant of that. Yeah.

Speaker C: So you travel a lot, you stay to a lot of different hotels. Do you have a travel pet peeve or something you like hate in model rooms or like design presentations?

Speaker B: How much time do we have?

Speaker C: Yes, tell us all.

Speaker B: You know, I, I think I've been resilient at this point because you just like you've seen it all and you have like nothing can upset you at any point. Like I've been through every travel delay possible. Um, somehow I'm still loyal to American Airlines and even though it's a one way relationship. Um, but I would say my pet peeve is probably just the fellow passengers on the airplane. Like there's, you can't unsee certain things and like it just amazes me how like the lack of etiquette people have.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, it's amazing. Just like not being aware. I tell my children all the time I'm like, just be aware of your surroundings. Right. Just know there's other people in your space. In the space.

Speaker A: Like.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Don't take up too much of it, you know, like, I mean, unless you need to. But like, you know, but on the

Speaker B: plane the other day and it was like the amount of bags that should have been under the seat that were up. Uh, like I, I was so close to just like having a speech for everyone on the plane. Find a spot and move on with my day. But like it's, everyone's like so self centered. It's crazy to me.

Speaker C: Yeah. 100%. Okay. And then what would you tell somebody not to put in a design presentation? Because now I want to know that that angle.

Speaker B: Mhm. Not. Well, my biggest pet peeve, I would say it's not necessarily like a specific, specific thing but like if you don't have, if you have a pixelated image that goes in a design presentation, it kind of kills the vibe first and foremost.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like you better have high res photos before you PDF that. Yeah. Or misspelling. Probably. But I also do that because I'm going 100 miles an hour, so.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, okay. So what's one thing most people don't know about you?

Speaker B: Um, so I love to collect perfumes. I would say I'm an untrained perfume sommelier.

Speaker C: Is there one type of smell you go for? Do you like to like have them?

Speaker B: I usually like something that has like kind of like a cedar with like jasmine kind of. I, I could like easily lose myself a day like going to like perfume stores and just kind of like venture. If I can like capture one like salesperson and be like, let's go smell every single perfume in this store. I would do that. I'm always on the hunt for something like, that's rare, complex, something that, like, nobody else has.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, you know, in my question, I feel like there's the seasonal perfumes, and then there's, like, your daytime ones in your nighttime, like, I'll never be wearing the same one. And then there's ones I'm like, I should sell that. I'm never going to use that again.

Speaker C: That's amazing. How many do you think you have?

Speaker B: Maybe 50 to 60.

Speaker C: Oh, my God. Seriously?

Speaker B: Is that a lot?

Speaker C: Yeah. Like, I wear. I've worn one perfume that my mom really me in college, and I've worn it forever. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker B: I change, like, probably every day.

Speaker C: That's amazing.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So you don't smell the same every day?

Speaker B: I never smell the same. Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker C: Okay, Love that. All right. What do you love most about your job?

Speaker B: I, um, think no two days are the same. It's. There's never a dull moment. Every day has new challenges, and I'm. I'm constantly challenged to learn something new. And I think, you know, if you feel like your job, if you feel like you know everything in your job, then you're probably not doing a good job at it anymore. Yeah. So I think, you know, just the challenges of it and just the people that I get to work with.

Speaker C: What advice would you tell your younger self?

Speaker B: Um, the importance of the relationships that you build in this industry. Um, I think they're invaluable. And you don't realize that people will come back into your orbit at some point in your career. So be mindful of how you treat and speak to people, because you will meet them again.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You might be on the other side.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You just don't know where things are going to land.

Speaker C: Yeah. All right. Well, we always end the podcast with the title. That is the podcast. So different from your advice, what has been your greatest lesson or lessons learned along the way?

Speaker B: Um, I think this industry is built on trust and collaboration, and I would never underestimate the power of storytelling. But again, the design resonates emotionally, and making the space unforgettable is something we should all be lucky to do in

Speaker C: our careers and pushing forward.

Speaker A: Right? Yes.

Speaker C: Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to. It was so fun to catch up.

Speaker A: I love this.

Speaker C: Can't wait to see you in person soon. Thanks for listening to Hospitality Designs. What I've learned, if you like what you've heard subscribe and review us on itunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find full episodes and transcripts@hospitalitydesign.com.

Speaker B: M.