Ep.29 Jo Taylor | Finding Your Strength Through Pilates and Self-Awareness

Speaker A: Foreign. You're listening to the Be youe Start now podcast with San Artina. This is your host, Sarah Ashley Neal. Our guest is an expert in Pilates and has over 25 years experience in the fitness industry. She has a passion for help, helping people to gain inner and um, outer strength through Pilates, mindfulness and good nutrition. Walking her talk while recovering from breast cancer. She practices what she teaches and shares an abundance of useful tips to support wellness, including her own self care routines. Admitting that she never stops learning new skills, she hopes to raise more awareness around detecting breast cancer early on. Known for her lovable energy. Let me introduce you to Jo Taylor. Welcome to the Be youe Start now podcast. Jo. Jo Taylor, is that right?

Speaker B: That's it. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me on.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So do we call you, we call you Jo, not Joanne, is that right? Just for the viewers, Jo.

Speaker B: It's great.

Speaker A: Lovely, lovely. Okay, well, you're looking well and uh, the reason you're on the show today is because, well, there's quite a few different things, but you're an expert in Pilates, you've been a fitness instructor and we're uh, going to be talking about mindfulness and a few other areas so we might as well just crack on with it. And I'd love to know how you got into the fitness industry in the first place. Could you tell us?

Speaker B: Well, I've always, um, been passionate about sport and movement and before that I was a cabin crew, had been hotel receptionist, I'd worked in the travel industry and uh, both my children were really young and I was a bit of a lost person of what I was then going to do next, but had all this energy and I wanted to use it. And it was my husband that said, Joe, you would be amazing. You've got so much energy, enthusiasm. You should really go down that line of training to be aerobics teacher. And that's what I did and did that when my daughter was 2. She's 29 this year. I can't believe it. Uh, but then you just get, you train, you just get hooked on doing lots of different courses and finding your feet in what it is that you want to do. And I just absolutely loved teaching aerobics, acro aerobics, um, spinning step. I wasn't very good at teaching step, but then you just find your thing. And it was passionate about getting people to move and, and make them feel better about themselves until in the end I got an injury because I overdid it at one point. You know, I was doing 30 classes a week. And then I trained to become a Pilates teacher. Uh, and then. Which was great timing because then I'd had a dreadful injury with my knee and I couldn't no longer jump and run about anymore. So then for the last. Must be 22 years, I've been teaching Pilates.

Speaker A: Wow, that's brilliant. Because you've, um, what you've said there. I've got quite a few questions now coming up. Brilliant. Um, you mentioned something about an injury. Um, I'm going to go that, that direction because, you know, if you're doing 30 or classes a week and after a while, obviously it takes a toll on your joints, ligaments, etc. So how on earth did you manage to even keep up 30 classes in the first place? Or is that to do?

Speaker B: Well, it's very unhealthy. I was living off of my, uh, adrenaline. I was just like, whoa, here we go, everybody. Come on. And in the end, I was limping away. I looked like I was doing a new move. It wasn't a new move. What, to limp? And all the class were limping with me thinking, oh, this was part of the exercise. And it was just, oh, wow. No, my body was just. My body was saying no more. And then I went to see a surgeon and he said no more. Uh, and then lucky enough, I trained to do Pilates. But then I was in my 30s then and I attracted a lot of young mums in their 30s. But I, obviously, I'm now 57, and I attract women my age who want longevity, who, who need to slow down because their bodies have said no more. And so, so I attract people that are rehabilit in rehabilitation or have osteoporosis or hypermobility or, um, knee replacements, people with ms, lots of different, um, conditions like that. And it's just like. But I can relate. If I now teach a person in their 30s who want to go, go, go. I can think, oh, I could see myself. I was like that at your age and your body. And then we'll just say, ah, you can't do that anymore.

Speaker A: Well, this is it. I mean, when we're younger, I mean, I used to start exercising when I was, uh, I mean, probably what, 10, 11 onwards. And, and they, they talk about, you know, your, your joints and everything aren't. Well, your joints are formed, but you're still growing. Um, and it has taken a toll, I think, because I was literally became addicted to fitness. Do you feel that people do become addicted and they don't always listen to what Their body's telling them, jo, when

Speaker B: you're young, you're quite, uh, we've. You're very, very, very naive. And it's probably quite a good thing because when I was younger, I'd get on a horse and never been on it before, and I'd go galloping, I'd go skiing, I'd go down a black mountain. Of course, each injury, each knock a table, it's just like, oh, won't do that again. That hurts. And it's just as you get older. But it's certain personality types, I think just, yes, you can get addicted to sport and nobody else around you can tell you better because you have to find out yourself. And I found out the hard way. But they're not very lucky enough for me. I could move my career into different directions. But then I've now got empathy and understanding and sympathy to people that perhaps have, um, overdone in their lives.

Speaker A: No, that makes complete sense. And, and, uh, everybody on the call. This lady, uh, has got so much energy and there's lots of. We're going to come back to different areas and, um, she's going to talk a little bit about some of her personal stories. But let's just talk about Pilates a moment. Let's, uh, for the, for the listeners. Because quite a few people, they might have heard about Pilates, but they've never done it before and they don't know what it is. In a nutshell, what, what is Pilates? And then we can talk around the subject.

Speaker B: Pilates is, was named after a gentleman called Joseph Pilates, a German man. When I first did, uh, teach, it was way before the Internet and people would ring up and it was just like, oh, no, it's Pilates. And Pilates is about strengthening your core muscles. It's about stabilizing the muscles that strengthen your joints. It's about, um, working for good body alignment. So ideal body alignment. None of us are perfect, uh, with all, perhaps maybe stand more on one leg and the other legs we'll have one side stronger. So it's constantly about trying to realign the body so that we can, um, work for longevity through the body and to help to rehabilitate ourselves. But it's mind, body. Pilates is all about mind body. That the difference between Pilates and yoga, sometimes it gets confused is yoga is a more spiritual exercise, a way of exercising. It's been around for thousands and thousands of years, as Pilates has only been, uh, around for about 100 years. Whereas Pilates is perfect for somebody who is hypermobile because there a closed end of chain and hypermobile people would don't have the connective tissues. So they would need to strengthen the joints and work on stability. Whereas if they were to do yoga, it would be too much over stretching for them. So it's different, ah, uh, that, that's the different exercise. But with the Pilates I teach, I teach more. There's different forms of Pilates. The reformers are absolutely fantastic. But I te more mat work with stretching, uh, because I find that, that with the breathing, Stretching Pilates is what helps my clients to help to rehabilitate themselves, to, to help to become stronger and have more body awareness. The breathing is a really, really, really important part of it.

Speaker A: So just going back to just for the listeners, what does reformer mean? What is Reformer Pilates mean?

Speaker B: Reformer. Um, Pilates is where you work on, uh, machines. I don't, ah, Pilates. Pilates. When he was working in internment camps in the war, he. All he had was beds of sp strings to work on. And so that's what he, that's what he worked with. The people, uh, that were in the internment camp and everybody that worked with him didn't get the influenza or they didn't get ill like that. And so that's come a long way from there. And it is a fantastic tool to do. But I don't teach that. I'm m. Matt, I'm stretch, I'm breathing. That's, that's the way that I've chosen to go.

Speaker A: Thanks for clarifying that because again, there, um, there are different forms of Pilates now. I mean, if, you know, years ago, of course there's different types of Yoga and um, we're not necessarily talking about yoga, but it's interesting because that, uh, was one of my questions about what the difference is between yoga and Pilates. But now there is like so many different types of yoga. And when, when you look up Pilates, you know, Matt, Reformer, um, and there's some other names, and I'm not quite sure what they are, but this. But there's definitely no, please.

Speaker B: There's contemporary Pilates, there's stretch Pilates. When I qualified, uh, 20 years ago or 22 years ago, I've been on lots of different courses. You end up spending an awful lot of money and you're trading thousands of pounds along the way and more and more and more each time. But then I've, I've trained through different bodies until in the end I found something I really respected and really, really trusted and could take away from, uh, the things that I wanted to then bring on to my clients. So. But I did find once you train, you learn the most things through your clients. I, uh, worked at the Ms. Center for 12 years, and while I was working there, sometimes it'd be, oh, dear, this person's not able to move their leg. So we need to find an alternative exercise. Okay, this person has had a stroke as well as ms, so we need to work along the way. Okay, this person's had a knee operation, this. And then I would go off and go get more courses to find out how I could help benefit different people. So. But the way I've learned the most is through clients. Like, right, okay, this person's coming late, they're shallow breathing, they're very nervous, they're giggly. So it's like working out a personality of how you can help to motivate that person. Rather than a doctor saying you need to do Pilates and then coming along, one size doesn't fit all, it's working out. Okay, how can we help this client to be more relaxed so that she can breathe better, so she can relax better. So the exercises will benefit this person? Because in a class, I try to just hold small classes. Some people with perhaps osteoporosis, um, they're advised not to lift their head and twist at the same time. So you may have 10 people in a class, but eight people have completely different conditions. And that's what's good about the long training that a person would put themselves forward to have to be able to understand all the different conditions. And so that it gives myself, as a trainer, can confidence of like, okay, I understand your condition. I understand you're a little bit nervous today, or perhaps you're a little bit giggly because that's. You find it hard to relax. And how I can help to motivate them. So understanding somebody's personality, as well as looking at their body, which is about as my job would be to look at their posture and understand their background of their health issues and how I can. How I can help to motivate them to improve their lifestyle by having a stronger, stronger core to help their back more balanced muscles, to help their joints, and to be able to free more easily through their hips by teaching them better posture techniques throughout their day. Not sitting with their legs crossed or making sure when they are sitting down, their feet are flat to the floor so their pelvis is level. If their back is feeling weak and tight, to use a warm, perhaps a hot water bottle or a wheat pad. To help to relax those muscles, keep giving them tips and ideas throughout their lifestyle. Not just in that one hour for the um, week, if they're only coming for one hour or in lockdown. I taught every single day and clients did improve every day. But I wasn't hands on to be able to say, perhaps if you were to put your hands like this, this would benefit you more. But with everything, it's horses for courses.

Speaker A: No, absolutely. Gosh, there's so much to unpack in that conversation and thank you. Because it's, I feel like we, we're starting with all these different highlights. I tend to say that. But what's interesting is that it's very refreshing to listen to you, Jo. You are a passionate person and a caring person. So when people are coming through the door, it's lovely to hear that you want to work with that person. You have to meet them where they're at, don't you? But with Pilates in the old days it was all about for back problems, for back problems, for back problems. And um, I think it still is because about, you know, helping with the core. You've, you've mentioned so many other different conditions and um, health challenges that people have. So when they come through the door, is there anything that, Is there any reason that you shouldn't do Pilates or is Pilates for everybody?

Speaker B: Um, well, if you have osteoporosis, there's certain conditions that you need to be, there's certain exercises you need to be aware of. So if you start a Pilates class, um, always, always let the trainer know your conditions because if you were to go to certain places, they're not taking pre class questionnaires and perhaps that person might not, might not be trained in the condition that you have. So ideally you should always speak to the trainer that's, that you're working with because sometimes you might not perhaps connect with that trainer. You might be of a certain age and that person might not perhaps understand your condition or not have the empathy or sympathy of what you're going through at that time. So as well as the trainer wanting to know about you, you need to know as much about what that uh, trainer can offer you. So I think that's very important.

Speaker A: Very true.

Speaker B: Pilates is for everybody.

Speaker A: Very, very true.

Speaker B: But it, but it's important that that trainer is uh, educated in your symptom or symptoms. That's highlighted in your body. That, that's, that's key and that's right for every exercise route you go down.

Speaker A: It is, isn't it really, because again you, you know, you can go to the gym and quite rightly so, you'll see one trainer for one class, one trainer for another. And you know, obviously you have to, to tell. They'll always say at the beginning what they have my experience and say, has anybody got anything I should know about today? So they've covered themselves from that point of view. But you're right, isn't it, it is about having a relationship, um, a professional relationship with, with the trainer really. And that's why, I guess you do have people who want to come to you each and every time because you, you get to see their improvement, don't you? Do you do it on a one to one as well?

Speaker B: Yes, it's. I feel so lucky. It's the most rewarding, rewarding job. I feel so, so lucky. I can work with people that perhaps have got osteoporosis and their DEXA scan which tells them how the bone density is if, what level it's at and I can work with people and then they'll go back for another DEXA scan in perhaps a year's time and they'll say, jo, we've been doing these weight brain exercise you' given me through the class you've advised me to do at home. It's made a massive difference. My DEXA scan hasn't got down, it's not stabilized, it's gone up and it's just like, well, this level is fantastic. So for me that's really rewarding. Or simply it might be. One of my clients had trouble. Um, she'd fallen over and she couldn't physically get herself up because she didn't have the core strength to turn herself over and get herself up. And by working m with her we were able to teach her how to turn over onto a side, get onto fours, bring one leg forwards and then learn to bring herself up from the floor. So that for her was an amazing thing. And then for her to come and tell me, look, we've, thank you so much for doing that. So it's all, everyone has a different level of different goal that they're working towards. So it's just so, so, so rewarding. Or there might be a horse rider and they're having struggle because they're putting all their weight through one leg. And I can see, well, you're, you're transferring all your weight through this leg. This part of your body's weaker. Uh, we need to work on your weaker side therefore, to strengthen that so that you're going to be more level when you're, um, on your horse and riding. Or I might have a client who's got cerebral palsy and they're really struggling because also the side effect of cerebral palsy is hypermobility. And it's like, okay, well, let's put our hands in this way. Let's work on the strength in this to help you. And so that will really, really, really, wow, help with this condition. And then the. And then they'll say, well, I'm going on holiday and I really struggle with my neck after being on two or three hours on an airplane. And I'll suggest, well, let's take a spiky ball with you, and let's put that into your back when you're traveling on a long way. Plenty of cushions. So it's not just about that class that they come to for that time. It's just like the constant tips and advice that I feel I can help my clients with to. So they can go. They can have take homes with them to, to get them through their everyday life. Or when you come out of the car, um, open the door, then swing your legs around, push both feet on the floor, bring yourself up. When you're working at an office, perhaps your neck's uncomfortable, um, because you've got your chin constantly pushed forward. I'd give advice on where your head should be, how your feet should be, elbows in relation. So it's just all on. So I feel like I'm growing with my clients and I just feel so, so lucky and so rewarded at the things. They'll come back and they'll say to me, so very lucky lady.

Speaker A: Oh, no, that's lovely. You're beautiful. You're beautiful soul. Anyway, I think it's. It's all those courses that you go on. I mean, sometimes people say, I mean, how many courses do you need to do? But quite rightly so, you're. It's your career, you're evolving. It's your experience. You don't just do one course and, and know everything in the same way. Someone doesn't just come to one class and, and just get the hang of it straight away. And, um, from what you've just told me, what I'm hearing is that they can take away some of those lessons almost as homework, but they don't know what else is going to happen in their life a few months down the line. So it's about helping them to increase their own awareness, isn't it, around their body, their posture, and to be mindful of that when they're at work, if they are in an office job. Yeah, it's an ongoing process, isn't it? When we learn about our body.

Speaker B: Definitely. And taking responsibility. I've some lovely clients have like, they've often in springtime, uh, they'll come forward and they'll go, I've really hurt my back. And it's just like, how's your garden? And it's just like, it's that gardening season when everyone's out there, suddenly they get a really bad back because they're bending over incorrectly and lifting up heavy pots. And then we'll really work hard on how we need to bring ourselves up from the floor, bring ourselves down and perhaps, okay, this is uncomfortable for you and your garden in this position. Perhaps if you, uh, were to garden like this, bring yourself nearer to your pots or bring or bend down in this position, you're not going to have such back pain. So it is working with my clients because often I will have more one to one time with them than perhaps I would do with friends or family. Because you're really getting to understand what their lifestyle is and what their postures. Or perhaps picking their grandchildren up and putting them in the car of awkward position. It's just like, oh, okay, why don't we try this? And so that you're not going to get those neck and back issues from perhaps picking your grandchild up like that. So. So it's lovely going on the journey with them together. And then I build up a lovely trust with them and they trust me. Or one client fell out of the loft and it was just like broke her bones and found out she had osteoporosis. And it's just like, right, come on, we've got to really work hard and build on your bone strength. And everybody else. Do you mind me sharing this? Let's not climb up in the loft anymore. We get to a certain age and we need to stand back and think

Speaker A: a bit more, be a bit more careful.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Do you know, it's, it's lovely. It's lovely listening to you. Um, I'm sure everyone else is enjoying it. Do you find that some people get to a certain age and they just, it's not that they want to give up, but because they haven't been exercising or they have, their joints are stiffening or been through menopause. Whatever, whatever it is, men and women, um, not the men going through menopause, but, ah, that's another story. Keep that separate for today. Um, they sort of think, oh, that was the old days. That Was the old me. I can't do that. Now. We will be talking about takeaways and tips and things, but while we're talking about it, how do you. How do you encourage people to start doing something even if they haven't done it before? Because it's never too late, is it to begin Pilates? If anything, it's probably the one exercise to start, in my opinion.

Speaker B: Oh, look, it's always, always just take gentle steps forward. And in no one class is, um, the classes. I never pitch a class that one size fits all. I would give different levels, so everybody would be welcome. But then obviously there would be a more advanced class or a beginner's class. But then you'll have a class somebody is unable to bring. If they were to lie on their back, they would be unable to bring two legs up because their back isn't their core and their back isn't strong enough to hold it. So I would build it all up almost like layering a cake. So you'd work at one level, then build it up. And if you're comfortable with this, move to this. If you have osteoporosis, keep your head down. If you have hypermobility, palms to the floor. So in a group situation, I would teach everybody is layering a cake differently and then give alternatives and then constantly go around and just check that their posture is in an ideal alignment for them at that moment while they're doing that, that class. So anybody that's coming into, um, this, I would, I would say, you know, begin with 10 minutes a day, build it up to 15 minutes. Start. Push yourself to start walking more. Um, because I do come across, I seem to attract clients that, uh, perhaps have lost their confidence on the way or they think they can't get up and down on the floor. And it's just like, well, if you fall over, we need to think about how you would get yourself up. And they've not perhaps crossed their mind that they could fall over and they're not going to be able to get themselves up. So it's a very, very important skill to learn. It's a basic life skill to relearn yourself. Because we could all do these things when we were younger and then through perhaps a busy life of bringing up a family, working perhaps in an office or whatever job that they've. They've lost that flexibility, mobility, and sometimes confidence going back into a, um, going into an exercise group. So that's why I think also having a smaller group, people aren't as intimidated because they'll be able to chat and not feel intimidated or they're being ignored.

Speaker A: No, exactly. No, that, that's beautiful. Beautifully said. Um, because it just crosses my mind. I know quite a few, um, older people who just say, oh, I can't move very well now, so I've lost my flexibility. But you have to get back into it. I mean, for example, for myself, I mean, up until my 50s, I was, I was fit and I never, I'd been working out constantly. And, um, it got to a stage where just overnight I wasn't exercising as much. And then my back went, and this went. So this is just an example that I am obviously in wellbeing. I am positive. So I know myself that, you know, there's no excuses. We just have to maybe do things differently than we did before until we get our rhythm and our fitness back. But I have noticed, even by getting back into it myself and doing more walking, your body, I mean, is muscle memory a real thing? Because I can honestly say that it would have been easy to have just given up. I wouldn't have given up. But there will be people out there who will with their exercise regime. And, um, all of a sudden it's like, I can move better, I can twist better. I'm not hurting as much when I'm bending down. So how much is it? Psychological?

Speaker B: Muscle memory is fantastic. If I, I, I. One of my favorite groups of teaching is the riding club. The riding club know their right, they know their left. They have so much fantastic body awareness. They'll be able to, uh, I'll say and lift your left arm, uh, drop your right shoulder, maybe something on those lines. And they'll just do it like that. And it's just like, wow, this group of people really have got good body awareness. Or I might teach somebody who has not exercised for years and years and years. But when they were younger, perhaps they did ballet, they did dance, they, they did hockey at school. But it's just like they've, they've kept that muscle memory. We never, ever lose it. That's what's so wonderful about the body. And you exercise when you were younger, then sometime life can take over. People's career might take over, and it's just not in their mindset to go and exercise. But then you'll teach them years later and it's just their body can move and they, they do have the pro receptors to know where, where they're right to their left leg is. And that's wonderful, that's rewarding. Or I might teach someone who's never exercised before, and they don't have those pro receptors. And for me, perhaps that is a little bit challenging, but we get there in the end.

Speaker A: But it's always finding that way, isn't it? Yeah. Um, you know, and I haven't known. I haven't known you too long, but I can. The conversations we've had. Absolutely, definitely. I don't think you'll let anybody give up. If they. If somebody wants to help themselves and they want to get back into it, that's, uh. They've crossed the first hurdle straight away, haven't they?

Speaker B: Definitely.

Speaker A: Definitely.

Speaker B: And just by making that call or that email or connecting through Facebook to say, I really, really want to. Is this for me? And it's just like, come along. You know, just try this. You know, if there's a place in the class and I will fit you in and we can work around you. We can work on one to one. Because sometimes people like to begin one to one. And that's often ideal thing that you should do with somebody that's not exercised for a long time to give them their confidence back and to really work to understand where their body is at that moment and how we can help to progress and move them forward so that they've got good quality of life and longevity. Because that's what surely we're all working for towards the end, to have a quality of life. I teach seated Pilates as well, and quite often people are very arthritic in the hands, and we'll do lots of movement and exercises working with their hands because that arthritis is inflammation of the joints. We work to get them moving, and to begin, they'll feel, I'm a bit stiff. This is uncomfortable. It's like, come on, we can just gently work through it. And by the end they'll say, oh, wow, I've got more movement in my hands. It's almost like magic, but it is. And it's just movement and it's such a wonderful feeling and releases happy endorphins.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's movement, isn't it? Do you know, I was going to ask you about seated Pilates, and, uh, that's brilliant. I'm glad you. You captured that. Uh, just while we're just finishing off talking about Pilates for a moment, we'd not finish off. We'll probably bring it back in again. How often do you recommend somebody to do Pilates? Now, we're not talking about somebody who's got millions of hours on their hands, but again, I heard you say starting off with 10 minutes a day and then 15 minutes a day. But it is something you can do every day.

Speaker B: Uh, well, during lockdown, I thought, what on earth can I give to the world? And so I'd set up to do Pilates half an hour, um, seven days a week, naively believing we would be in lockdown for two weeks. Then after about two months, it was like, oh, my goodness, this is carrying on. I'm getting tired. I can't believe it. And then it was growing more and more. People were, like, tuning in and, like, getting their bodies moving half an hour every morning, and then we would do a talk at the end of it. And so that was fine because they were clients that I'd taught already half an hour movement, it wasn't too much. It was quite gentle. But it was getting their bodies moving, their joints moving, the heart circulating, their lungs pumping. That was fine. But some that had just come into Pilates, I would just gently say, start off once a week, then build it up two, three times a week. But five times a week is absolutely fine if you're generally a fit person. Person. Okay, we should be moving every day. We should be moving a minimum of 30 minutes every single day. So just get out there and get moving. Whatever makes you happy. Doesn't have to be Pilates. It can be any sport. But move. It's the most important thing to keep your heart pumping. You, all that blood going around the body and. And the joints moving. Because when we say. If we say still and stiff, we become stead and stiff, like an old, rusty car. So. But whatever makes you happy. Move.

Speaker A: Just move. Do you know, it's funny you say that, because in lockdown, I was actually working pretty much every day on my courses and figuring things out, and I sat down more than I've ever sat down as a therapist when I used to do Chinese, uh, treatments. And, um, I was standing up. I knew my posture was good. Um, an element of fitness anyway. But it's amazing how sitting down, uh, you can end up losing a bit of your posture on the. On the computer or the concentration. I could be, like, really looking, concentrating, and I'd notice that again, with age, um, we're talking from age point of view. It doesn't have to happen this, but I've noticed that some women, when they get older, there's a little bit more of a hump in the top of the neck. And that that can go, can't it? Up to a point, yes. Because I've looked myself inside me and

Speaker B: realized, yeah, because of iPhones, small Telephones, small devices. We've ended up pushing our chin forward and dropping our head down. Our head is the heaviest part of the body. So what would be a good thing every day for you to lie on your back and check your messages and, um, not have that constant looking forwards, because that creates very tight pectoral muscles. But we'd want them to be open so that we've got more room for our organs to move around in our body and we're going to be able to breathe better. When we're very tight in the forward body, we're going to find that hard to breathe. So by being open, by doing Pilates, yoga, stretching classes, what makes you feel good is going to help to open up the upper body, which will help with your upper back. Sitting down makes our hip flexors very tight and our hamstrings very tight, which also pull your pelvis into the incorrect position, which will then pull on your back muscles. So all those stretching exercise for your hips and hamstrings are also going to help with your lower back. Back for the upper body, make sure your screen is high. If you're working on the big screen and not having that chin pushing forwards. I've, uh, I remember teaching a vicar and she wore very focals and she had a lot of trouble because she'd be reading the Bible, looking through the varifocals at the wrong angle and that was causing her neck and shoulder problems. So a lot. Sometimes it can be your glasses.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So the posture is so, so important. Your head's there is part of the body, followed by your gluteal muscles. So that, that's why alignment is so, so important. Have I made you adjust?

Speaker A: Wow. Gosh. I was just thinking. Exactly. Joe. I know it's funny when you're talking to me again, my guests coming on the show, they're, you know, it's their expertise. And, uh, yeah, I'm often aware about glasses. I remember when I had my eyes checked a couple years back or last year, whenever it was, and I said to them, no, they're not sitting right. And they were insistent they were. And I said, no, they're not. And I. And as soon they did adjust them and I felt much better, but over time, I mean, we're not doing opticians thing today, but the glasses can, can drop or they, you know, you pull them on. We should put, we should put our glasses on a certain way. I know if this is audio, people can't see what I'm doing, but I was always taught you pick them up and you. And you literally put them on where we're so used to swinging one arm, you know, with one arm and throwing them on or putting on top of my head. Anyway, that's another. I'll have to get an optician on. Anybody out there? Um, that would be good, wouldn't it? So we've been talking about empathy, really, because as a Pilates instructor. But that's extended another area of your life, hasn't it? Because you've mentioned to me that you've had breast cancer. Would you be able to talk about that and any areas that aren't too sensitive for you that you feel would support the listeners?

Speaker B: Yes, of course. In November, I found a, uh, lump in my, uh, left side, my left breast. And, uh, very lucky. I've got brilliant nhs and lived between two hospitals, which made me really value, uh, the English nhs. And then I was diagnosed that I had lobular, uh, breast cancer, um, in quite a short space of time. This, I was diagnosed from November. This was then diagnosed in December. Then in January, I had the lump removed, but I had, um, a reduction on my right side as well as my left side. And then, okay, I was. Went into recovery for a while. And then during my recovery, I thought, yeah, get straight back into, uh, teaching. But during that time of my recovery, I'd just recently qualified to, uh, do mindful nutrition, which I've been doing last year. But as I went into, um, how on earth I'm going to get through this time? I've worked all my life from a very young age, and I love motivating, I love moving. How am I going to cope not being able to move? Um, and so I went, I did a cancer awareness course, which was absolutely fabulous. I would recommend that to anybody because it gave me empowerment. It made me be able to think, okay, I can't do anything about the external environment, but I can do something about my internal environment. And so when I used to teach my, uh, Pilates classes, I used to think I was being very loving and homely, burning candles for everybody. And I thought, oh, my goodness, I've been burning toxic candles. That is a big no, no. But I was unaware. I was ignorant to what I had been doing was wrong. I was using plastic chopping boards and not wooden chopping boards. I wasn't washing my fruit and vegetables, but I've been doing the cancer awareness course. It made me realize all the things I could change in my home life and my family's life. Um, I changed the makeup I was using because I realized There was toxins in that. So along the way, there's lots of different things I can do to help myself, help my family, and also talk to my friends and my clients about that, which I have been doing. And then from there, I did a menopause course, became a menopause coach and a mindful course. And that has really, really helped me get through this journey because now I'm on chemotherapy and halfway through, and then, um, I'm going to be going on to radiotherapy after that. So through going back to the hospital and having stitches taken off and going through a few things that have been quite painful, I've been able to work through mindfulness with myself and nurses taking off bandages and said, okay, let's pretend we're on a beach. Let's do this. And we're going on a journey together. And it's just like taking your mind off somewhere else. Focusing on the breathing when you get those anxiety, anxious moments has really, really, really been a big, big, wonderful tool for me. And I'm seeing this time as a gift of time that I'm able to educate myself even more. And the last course I did, which was quite hard, but I've, um, got through it and I've done it, and I'm really, really proud of myself. I've trained to be a corporate wellness coach. So that is, I'm able to take my.

Speaker A: Congratulations. Thank you.

Speaker B: My journey of being a Pilates teacher, to do mini retreats and go into the corporate world. That's where my goal is to go next with my business, to help keep banging the drum about good nutrition, good sleep well. If you're not sleeping well, perhaps try these tips. If you're going through the menopause, do these little tips, and that will give you the things to get through, navigate yourself through there. So that's. That's my journey with the very, very long story come short.

Speaker A: It is a long story cut short, I'm. I'm sure. But thank you so much for sharing that. And we're still going to obviously carry on talking about some different areas of that more about where I, uh. I guess you're finding what your strengths are. You think you've. I mean, we go through our life and we have. We have a pocket of strengths, and we think this is what we want to do, and then something sets us back and then we learn something else, and it's an experience. It really is a journey, isn't it? It's a word that a lot of people do not like, but I don't really know what other word to use. We have, we're on a life journey and it's our own health well being journey as well. I'm sure people think I'm meant to be invincible because I claim to be a well being specialist and I certainly am in, in certain areas. But there is so much to learn and you could, you could sit and study all day, couldn't you? But coming back to your experiences and all these courses you've done, you really are able to adopt a holistic approach towards well being. Um, and you do do that in your own, in your own practice. Before we go on to some of your own routines, could we just touch on about this kind of support that you feel that you're able to offer other people now going through breast cancer because you're on a journey and behind the scenes it's naturally not going to be easy. But that said, you are positive, optimistic, you've been studying throughout this, throughout your chemo. You've still got keep having chemo. You must be such an inspiration to other people and I appreciate you. You're going to be finding more and more clients. They're going to come at you Jo be prepared. They're going to be firing, um, themselves at you. Is there an area that you want to specialize in or is it just part of your journey at the moment?

Speaker B: When it comes to breast cancer, I would like to specialize in helping everybody to have more of an open mind to being mindful about their life and working to keep moving, to do everything they possibly can for longevity. And when things do hit us, because things hit everybody with there's knocks that happen along the way, it's about dealing with that. And um, I didn't realize I was as positive as I was, but I have been told by so many people, wow, you're so positive. I don't know if you're born with that or not, but that has helped me to look forward to how I can get through my trauma in my life and for anybody else that has a trauma and we all get different things happening in life is I cannot express how perhaps doing a journal and being, uh, doing a gratitude journal, which will really help you. So that's all positivity by trying to get the right amount of sleep. Sometimes it's very, very hard for people, especially if you're menopause or they wake up in the night. But you know, being kind to yourself and thinking, I'm gonna make time to slow down and rest and I haven't, perhaps my world is so busy at the minute, I can't have a sleep in the middle of the day. But by taking time out and even just doing 10 minutes of mindfulness, if you find you struggle sitting down and being mindful to take, perhaps take yourself off for a mindful walk that will re energize you. And by eating the right food, it's a massive impact on the mind and the body to keep you healthy and happy and recovering. But through my breast cancer, through the chemotherapy, the thing that is keeping me strong and healthy and happy, because the chemotherapy rips your selenium away so you can be left quite low. But by eating all the right lots of fruits, lots of vegetables, having herbal teas, uh, drinking lots of water will keep you energized, keep you healthy, keep you happy. So just by slowing down and perhaps giving yourself a chance to be organized in your life for that next week will keep you on the level of being positive. And I can get through this. I'm going to perhaps educate myself in another way, and that will leave you empowered. So if I can help somebody else to be positive to get through that journey. But when I first had my operation, someone was standing on my drive, and somebody drove past, and I wave. Lift both arms up to wave. I couldn't bring my arms up very high. I had to work on the exercises to bring your arms up high because I had something that's called cording in the body, which, um, is unable to allow your arms to bring yourself up high. But by doing those exercises every single day, you will get there. So I want to be able to help people to find that, uh, positive way to whatever journey they're going through, whatever illness, whatever setback that they've had to, you know, we can do this. We can find a positive way to take a step forward and, and get on the right track of eating, sleeping, exercising in the way that's going to help you through that journey.

Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Absolutely lovely listening to you, Jo. Absolutely gorgeous. It's. I think you've hit the nail on the head that is about doing something, isn't it? It's about the. It's doing a certain amount of movement. You again. It's about doing what you can do because you can build on it. Um, you know, uh, the amount of times and in the past, and I've been guilty of it myself, where we say, I won't go swimming because I don't look good in swimming costume, or I won't go to dance classes because I want to learn to dance. First, we all, in this world we live in, you know, we. We want to be able to do everything right before we even start doing. As if we're on a show, as if we're on a stage. And it's like, we're like, forget what everybody else is thinking. I'm practicing that as well myself. Um, sometimes I'm. I'm fine with it. Occasionally I go, oh, no. Um, but, you know, it's. It's about being confident in ourselves and believing in ourselves because only we can take those steps forward. You, as a coach, as a teacher, can only facilitate and give as much information as you can. But that person's. It's like physio, isn't it? They say it's, you know, it's what you do physio. You've. They can show you how to do things most of the time. Um, there's other equipment out there these days, but you've still got to do things yourself. Uh, otherwise you won't make that kind of progress. So do you see yourself as a coach as well? I think you'd make a super coat.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I. I see myself as a wellness coach to help people because it's not just. There's not just one thing in wellness. It's. It's about exercise, it's about diet, it's about sleep, it's about friendship, it's about spirit. I can't say the words. Say it for me, please.

Speaker A: Spirituality. I know spirituality, Joe.

Speaker B: It's lots of things too. It's.

Speaker A: What if I didn't put an accent

Speaker B: into it, then M. I'd have probably said it better. There's so much to wellness that makes you feel good about life. But if you get all those things or try to get those things and tap into it, okay, I. Perhaps I'm not educating myself enough. Perhaps I need to do that more. Perhaps I need to work more on my friendships. Perhaps I need to work more on my diet. Then if you get all those things together, then you're gonna lead a happier, healthier life. And it's just like trying to help people to find that way. To like, yeah, keep tapping. You'll get there. And to make people feel welcome. M. Because sometimes people are shy to enter a class, uh, or they're shy to get in touch with you. And it's just like, what I love is when you teach people and suddenly they invest in a, ah, little bit. Bit of makeup or a new top for themselves and you just think, wow, they've, like, they're feeling better. About who they are. It's lovely to see that. You'll see them coming with a big smile and they've tried other things in their life because they're confident, because they're feeling better with how they look, because their posture's better and they're no longer in pain. They're in pain and they just feel quite low and they don't have the inclination to want to do things and

Speaker A: pain is so draining. Um, it's, you know, I only have to watch my mum in pain and um, and other people and I, you know, even when I get bad migraines, it's a pain that you can feel the color drain out of your face.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I mean, obviously we don't have to say people have to wear makeup. I get that. I mean, I like a bit of makeup. Um, people are beautiful with or without it. And so it is about looking at all areas of their wellness. But in terms of mindfulness and meditation, because the two are slightly different, what are your perceptions or your, your opinions, uh, of mindfulness and how that can help with pain?

Speaker B: I absolutely love mindfulness. I have used it over the years, but I have really, really pulled upon it since I've gone through discovering I had, uh, breast cancer, just going through the operation and waking up and did was my body intact, how it was when I was put under, uh, and then going through the healing journey and then being told I needed chemotherapy as for preventative measures, and then onwards through this journey. So I have been in pain, but the mindfulness has been absolutely fantastic. I can take myself off on a journey of, uh, pretending I'm somewhere else and, uh, the pain is not tense because I'm able to relax my muscles and take myself somewhere away. But I cannot emphasize enough how it would help anybody. You may need to go for a guided meditation or a mindfulness talk, or you may be quite happy to do it yourself. I love being taken on a journey by somewhere else, somebody else, but also I love taking other people with me. And I have done with my nurses or I take myself off and it definitely has helped me. And also in the night, if I've woken up in pain in the sleep, I can like take myself back on a journey. I'm back on that beach, I'm back in the forest, walking along, I'm, um, smelling, I'm feeling, I'm touching. It's just like go, wow, this is amazing. So if you haven't practiced meditation or mindfulness, I would strongly, strongly recommend it because it can put a smile back on your face and take on the world. Oh, yeah, definitely. It's just like, it's a wonderful journey. Yeah. You can make what's a very unpleasant thing happen to you. You can make it bearable. You can make it. Oh, okay. I can deal with this. I can help a lot of the people trying to help me, the nurses and the doctors that have tried to help me. It's just that I want to make their journey more pleasant because must they work such long, long, hard hours? And I notice how dehydrated they are and how tired they are and how they're running from one post to another post. Just like I want to be a patient that's going to help with their journey too, by helping my journey good. It's going to help their journey good too. And so that helped me.

Speaker A: Oh, how lovely, Jo. That's lovely. And of course, you're in wellness, so I can resonate with that. Absolutely. Um, but you, you drink a lot of herbal teas, you were telling me, and you've made of one before, and people think, oh, everything costs money. You can buy a bunch of herbs, can't you, for 50p or a pound, and that can, that can last all week. Tell me some, tell us some of the teas that you make from the garden.

Speaker B: Well, if you buy, um, if you were to buy fresh mint from a supermarket, there's no tax on it, whereas if you buy it from the garden center, there's tax on it. So buy your herbs from the supermarket and then you could perhaps mint lemon one, whatever it is, and you can plant that into the ground and that's going to grow bigger and bigger. So therefore you can make your own. These are just an example. If I do make my own, uh, mint tea, and then I'm not using the tea bags that are going to take years and years to go down into the ground and go. So we're saving money. It's more healthier for us and really helping with the environment. So it's a win, win, win. And it's. You just feel so much more cleansed. So I, I only have, I have decaffeinated tea one the day of Earl Grey, and then the rest of the day I'll drink, um, herbal teas. At the moment, the lemon balm is just grown and grown in the garden and that is just delicious. I sometimes I have rosemary, sometimes rosemary and fresh lemon, unwaxed lemon, organic lemon. Um, at the weekend, this time of year is a great time to pick elderflower, make elderflower cordial. That, that's I have that cold. But that's lovely as well because there's so much you can forage from the. From our environment around us that doesn't cost anything. And it's. It's better for the environment, it's better for us. It's cleansing, makes you feel great. And juices.

Speaker A: True that. You don't even need much of it, do you? No. Juicing. Oh, m. Gosh, I love juicing. Tell me. Okay, so tell. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot now. Share with us some of your, uh, routines. It doesn't have to be all formally shed. Yeah, just throw in some of the things that you do, clearly. Let's start from the main thing. You practice Pilates, don't you? Yeah, you. You clearly practice Pilates. What else do you do? So talk about the kitchen and some foods.

Speaker B: Oh, I start the morning with a juice cleanse. So quite typically I'll have, um, uh, apple, fresh organic apple. Uh, green. Green. Um, which seems to have the most flavor to it. Ginger, lots of ginger because that's an anti inflammatory. And then sometimes I'll put a cucumber in it. I put kale in it. Kale's really good for iron. I often get quite low iron count and I don't eat hardly any red meat, so I need to get more iron in there. And you can actually have iron from, ah, kale too. So I try to get as much as that into the toaster as well. So that's how I'll start the day. And then perhaps maybe have a, ah, banana. Do some Pilates. Banana is brilliant for releasing lots of potassium. And that will keep you going as a fitness instructor. There was always bananas in my car because you'd be going when I used to do 30 a week back in my 30s, you just went in between classes. Banana. Banana. And I realized now, oh, I can see myself back on that track. If I'm going for a client to another client's house, it'll be like bananas on the go. They are great because you can digest them so easily. And then after Pilates routine, I'll do homemade muesli, which I do in the air fryer. You may or may not agree with air fryers, but I love them just to do the porridge.

Speaker A: I don't know much about them, to be honest. Sorry. I don't know much about air fries.

Speaker B: Uh, well, you can, you can dry your. You can dry your herbs in there as well. Um, which is brilliant for making. To have a dry herbal tea for the Winter, but I, I love it for making um, by porridge in the. Well, not my porridge. So I use the porridge oats for the muesli. Then I'll add nuts and currants and different and uh, chai seeds, flax seeds and pumpkin seeds.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: And then at lunchtime uh, I'll have a um, soup, homemade soup and that's really easy and really, really cheap to do. I'm gluten dairy free so I'll use rye bread for that. And uh, to add with the soup I'll maybe have one slice of rye bread. And then dinner time will be typically a ah, salad with um, perhaps salmon or chicken or homemade um, falafels or chickpeas. Or I'll have something with vegetables because through the week we should all be eating 30 different fruits and vegetables a week, not just sticking to the same things. And um, with every breakfast, lunch and dinner, I'll always try and get some fruit or vegetable in every meal because you need to eat as much as you can. That keeps you cleansed and it will give you energy and keep your mind and body working and healthy, happy together. Uh, so with positivity and exercise, good exercise, sleeping, resting is gonna get into bed early. Don't stay up and go to bed late. And I um, I did used to drink alcohol but in the last, since I've gone through my breast cup recovery, breast surgery recovery, I haven't drank alcohol. I just don't want any toxins in my body. I just don't want anything around me. But I'm sure maybe there'll be a stage. We'll have a, you know, gin and tonic in the garden again. I can't imagine but I'm sure they will be. But, but if you do then perhaps cut down on that a little bit because you know, then that will keep you healthier and happier and give you more energy as well and help you to sleep better.

Speaker A: Well, you're certainly not short of energy, Joe. You're absolutely joy, a joy to be around too. So um, and it's, it's interesting because some people just don't have high energy levels and that's okay as long as, as they're, you know, um, they're not everybody's rah, rah, rah and, and feel like they have to sort of, you know, jump up and down and trampoline every day. But there is something to be said for looking at your own well being routines and looking at your own approach to wellness because there's always something little we can do to, to make positive changes each day and if you've got a good routine at that, brilliant. I would say to listeners, just pass that message on to other people and just, just uh, encourage others as well to, to just look at their sleep hygiene. I've been doing. I mean my don't sleep particularly great. I'm sleeping better than I used to. But I think there is something to be said for not going to bed too late if that's not your. Because they talk about morning people and night people, don't they?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I still haven't fathomed out which one I um, am. If I get up early, I like getting up early. If I go to bed late, I can get used to going to bed late. So I think it's a habit, isn't it? Would you, would you agree with that?

Speaker B: Oh, definitely. We should all try and go to bed at the same time every single night so our body gets used to it and get up at the same time every single day. And I know that is quite hard if you work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 and you want to have a late night the weekends, but then you can often be exhausted come Monday morning you're going back to work. So in an ideal world we should ideally go to bed at the same time every night and um, get up at the same time every day. And daytime has got so much to offer. There's so much, much we can do. It's exciting getting up in the morning and planning what you're gonna do. It just. And if you work, if your work starts at 9 o', clock, if you can get up at 6 and go for a walk or a run or, you know, or do meditation or yoga or Pilates before then it's just like your day's even better because you've added something else into your day. Not just going to work and coming

Speaker A: home from work, which is people get a get on the treadmill, don't they? Now not Obviously everybody works 9 to 5 and, and some people work shifts, gifts and they're all, you know, asleep during the day. But I guess it's still encouraging them to work out a time that still suits them in their own waking, uh, hours, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah. Making time for yourself, not just giving, giving to everybody else, which you can get very despondent with life. But if you make time for you, then it's just like, you know, time for your mind to download on your day and your thoughts, you just, you just leave yourself feeling so much more happier and it's A. It's a good world. It's a good world out here, and our world is good. And it's up to us to. To make it, you know, to make the best we can. Um, and whatever our beliefs are, to stick with that and, you know, make. It's our responsibility to be happy and to make everyone around us happy. By you being happy.

Speaker A: Well, your evidence that even, you know, and I said you're currently going through these challenges, but you're. You're looking well and you're clearly doing something right. So I know there's so much more we could talk about, but time's getting on. Um, one day I'd love to talk to you more about breathing techniques and, and just having you, you know, maybe another. A part of your journey if you. If you'd like to.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But. Yeah. Is there. Where can people find you, Jo? Where can people find you?

Speaker B: Oh, my m. Most of my tribe are on my, uh, Facebook, my, um, Joe's tailored Pilates Facebook, but I've also got an Instagram account which is J.T. mulberry. And then that does link you through to my Facebook account. And I. And I upload sometimes. This weekend it was about, um, picking elder flower and how to make it just a fun reel I did with my daughter. I might do Pilates back care. I might, uh, talk about breathing and. Or looking up at the sky and like, wow, look at that world up there. Doesn't that feel good? So that I'll just put motivational things on there that, that to keep you happy and grateful and just loving life and finding the joy in everything you do. So. Or if you are going through that just journey of like, you've just found out you've got cancer or been told you've got chemotherapy and you're going through that, it's just like the way I'm getting through my chemotherapy journey is by being grateful for sometimes it just might be looking out the window and seeing the plants moving in the garden and. Because some days I can only walk to the garden and back out again, and then I'll go through it and it's just like, yeah, yes, I've got more energy today. I can go on a big walk around the park and go up and down the hills and, you know, different days, different energies. But it's just that every day I want to be happy in my journey and I want people around me to feel my happiness from me is just by. But for me, it's by eating good nutritional food. It all starts with diet and the more the right nutrition you've got then the more you can move your body. The more you can move your body, the more happy, because you're releasing more happy endorphins. So it's just everything's got a knock on effect. Whatever we do, whatever we consume in ourselves as a knock on effect to our whole life and our well being and how we present ourselves. I've done a Ronnie Corbett, haven't you?

Speaker A: Fantastic.

Speaker B: I did a Ronnie Corbet. Sorry.

Speaker A: Oh, that's so funny. No, no, not at all. But this is, this is what I love about doing these shows. I probably wouldn't work if I had to be a friend, a former presenter on a TV show. Well, maybe I could be a, I could probably go on a TV show, Joe. But uh, yeah, that's another if we digress. One thing I wanted to ask you about very I say briefly, but we've talked about it throughout, what's your perspectives on mind body connection? To summarize really what everything we've been

Speaker B: talking about there is such a connection. Um, somebody could be holding themselves very, very strong and working out really, really hard but not breathing. They're not relaxing their muscles and so they can sometimes end up feeling very, very dizzy and not getting as much out of it. If they were to breathe more than they're going to get more oxygen into their muscles and their muscles go to um, move more and their shoulders are going to drop down, the neck's going to lengthen and they're going to have a better breathing pattern through their body. So sometimes I could teach a whole class and I think, oh my goodness, I can't get this person to just relax and go down. Then we'll go into mindfulness and then afterwards they'll say, oh wow, the pains I've been holding in my hip have completely gone because they've allowed their mind and body just to like relax and go together. So the breath and the body exercising together means so much. It is everything you can go through your whole life and not breathe, probably be shallow breathing, but by breathing properly your body will move so much more freely and you won't be holding the same aches or pains that perhaps you started that uh, morning or when you started this exercise that you've gone to. So mind body connection is so, so, so important. If you haven't tried it, try it. It'll make massive, massive difference. Find an instructor that can look at your body and can just tell.

Speaker A: That's a good tip. I was going to ask what your takeaways were. But to be honest, I think that's. That's a really good one to end it on. I. I paused there myself because I noticed it says something said failure to record. And I'm thinking, uh, so my breathing nearly, nearly went off the chart then. But it's all good. Uh, but, Jo, thank you ever so much for coming on today. You know, you're a remarkable lady, and I just feel that, uh, what we've been talking about today, as I always often say, are just highlights because there's so much more that you could bring to the table. But I wish you all the absolute best on your journey, and I look forward to possibly having you back on again to talk more in the future.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thank you. I've really loved it. I'm flattered that you asked me. Thank you very, very much. Thank you.

Speaker A: Okay, well, I'm humbled, too, so thank you ever so much. And thank you, everyone, for coming on and listening today. So take care of yourself and, um, be good. See you next time. Thanks, Jo. By and remember, our show is about helping you to create healthier habits in the life you live now. Until new lifestyle practices change how you live your life. Well, that's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening and taking time out to join us. If you enjoyed the show, it would be really great if you could leave a review on whatever platform you've been listening to us on. And I look forward to welcoming you back to the show next week. This has been your host, Sarah Ashley Neal.