Great conversation with Shelby Hacala , a fascinating entrepreneur

Speaker A: So. Hi Shelby. Uh, thanks for, thanks for uh, doing the podcast. Um, this is interesting. Shelby's an entrepreneur who's got a really, um, interesting background and has an interesting pathway. So we'll, we'll get to know him a little bit better. We'll talk about his company, we'll talk about, um, his sales approach, we'll talk about what he does for his clients. But uh, Chris, quickly. Shelby, maybe give us a little rundown of what you do and uh, then we'll go from there.

Speaker B: Great. Thanks, Paula. I mean, first off, thank you. I appreciate, uh, the opportunity to just kind of hang out with you and have a conversation and hopefully uh, you know, your audience will get a little bit of insight of uh, what some of my background, etc could help them in any way. So, um, thanks, thanks for being on. Um, and your, your first question is.

Speaker A: My first question is tell us, tell us a little bit. You're very welcome by the way. Uh, thank you for. Yeah, first, um, question is tell us a little bit about what. Let's just go in that direction first. What your company does.

Speaker B: So. Sure.

Speaker A: It's like the, the 30 second or 1 minute elevator pitch so that people know who they're, who they're listening to.

Speaker B: Sure. So my, my, uh, I think that when I talk to my friends and I consider you a friend, uh, you know, when I tell them what I do, I, I. Life has been preparing me for what I do today. And the thing that I do specifically is I'm a business coach. Um, so I specifically, uh, coach leadership teams. At this point I'm not doing one on one. I will probably one day, but for now it's senior leadership teams in business. Um, and therefore that's my main part, uh, of the work that I do. I don't have a specialty around small, uh, group dynamics. In other words, I work with groups like eo, the Entrepreneurs Organization and ypo, Young Presidents Organization. And I'm a certified form facilitator for them. So anything that has to do with form, uh, or uh, mastermind type of groups, uh, that is also an area of my specialty.

Speaker A: Okay, great. Well, thanks for that. Um, you know, one thing I've noticed, Shelby, is, you know, I'm also a consultant and there's a lot of consultants out there. And I don't know if you agree with me, but I think one of the reasons that people choose a consultant goes beyond our description. It goes, it goes to the fact of how we connect with the individual. So I guess my first question to you is how do you connect. Let's say you meet someone for the first time. How do you get to know them or how do you convince them if you feel they're the right client for you to, to come on board? So I guess my question is tell me a little bit about your style and the questions you ask and how you get to know your people, your potential.

Speaker B: Yeah, my style. Yeah, thanks. Um, I think my style is, I would call it maybe a little bit organic and very relational. Uh, and what I mean by that is I approach someone with curiosity first and that is more around, uh, I'm curious about the person and what they do and how they do whatever it is, uh, that and, and, and so the conversation starts like that. And my mindset is never I'm trying to sell you something. I'm always, um, more of an abundant minded type of person. And so I felt that throughout my history, uh, as a business individual and a business owner, uh, etc, Um, I found that in my early days it was very transactional in my approach where I was, you know, I had quotas and I had to hit. And so I was approached the person more of a what can I sell them? Where as I evolved and I think I matured a little bit, what happened is it really shifted for me and it stopped being about the transaction and it started being about the person. And what is it that is, is that I might be able to offer them and my services. Right now as a business coach, I really do, uh, in my heart feel that I have some things to share, that if I do share them and my clients adopt the methodologies that I use, their lives can be formed. And so for me, that, that's a pretty major deal. And so when I come with that and I bring that into the conversation, I believe my client feels it or my potential client feels that. Shelby's not trying to sell me anything. He actually cares for me as an individual. And I feel that, um, that definitely that by the way, that's my approach. That's how I go about it.

Speaker A: So if, if I was to summarize, in a sense, um, it's get to know the individual. It's not about selling me or yourself. It's about helping them achieve an objective

Speaker B: or a goal 100%. It's really a renaissance, I think.

Speaker A: So I feel exactly the same way and I think it's important for me anyways. And that's why you're on this podcast, honestly, because a lot of people forget that it's not a transaction, it's about helping people achieve their objectives. Now, of course, you know, we're both of a certain age, uh, so I think our experience is important, too. Right. Um, I think our background, our knowledge, our expertise comes into play, and that will be put forward at one point, but ultimately, it's about helping that client achieve an objective. Um, and I sense that, like, when I talk to you, I sense that. Now you say that to me. And I have another question for you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And this is my question for you. If I say, if I ask you personally, what is your. Do you know Simon Sinek? I think we've spoken about.

Speaker B: Yes. Uh, I mean, if I went over to my bookshelf, I'd pull his book off the shelf.

Speaker A: Getting to why. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: So, yes, I'm. I'm a student of his work.

Speaker A: Okay. And so am I. And I guess my question to you is, what is your why? And, uh, let's define what that is. For people who don't know Simon Sinek, your why is sort of like your motivation, your what's in your heart, why you do stuff. So if I was to ask you, Shelby, uh, what is your what in a work structure? What. What is your why? What are you hoping to achieve? What is your objective? Sure.

Speaker B: And so it's in.

Speaker A: It's really deep.

Speaker B: All right. Uh, yeah. I mean, there are different layers of this, and because it's a, uh, business podcast, I'm going to go definitely on the business side. And for me, we'll get to the personal stuff later. Yeah, we'll get to it. Um, the, you know, again, it's been an evolution and a discovery. And so when I, uh, ask my clients this question, or it's oftentimes they're a little bit stumped. And so, um, what I want to maybe share with the audience is that it's not something that, like, you. You come up with, like, off the. Off, uh, the. Just the question happens, uh, or is asked, and then you, you know, automatically. It has taken me years to figure this out. When I did read Simon Sinek's book, it just started helping me kind of craft what it is. And for me, it's really simple. I help business entrepreneurs live their best lives, and I do that in three different ways. Um, I have again discovered that as a business owner, I need systems in my business to be able to, uh, you know, make my business run really, uh, really well. And so, um, you know, I have a business, or I. I do work with my clients. That has to do with, um, what I call a business operating system. And so that's one pillar, if you will. The second pillar is figured out in my life that I need a peer group, other individuals like me, business people, um, that when I talk to them, they get me, they understand what I'm living and I can share and go deep, uh, and we can learn from each other. And the third piece is all, this is great, having a business, um, and thriving and trying to go for it and having peers. But if I don't have a, if I don't have health in my, in my life, if my body is not strong, my mind, my physical, my spiritual isn't strong, I have nothing. And so those are the three pillars that I coach on to just make sure that that's the foundation. And if we have the foundation, uh, then we can do extraordinary things. And so that's my. Why I simply help business leaders live their best lives because they can, you know, there's, there's untapped potential in all of us. And I feel so strongly that, um, you know, it's my job to kind of one, make my, my clients understand and realize that they have so much more in them. And, and the reason I want to do that is that it actually influences and impacts, um, you know, the world. And that's kind of a big statement, but it is really true. It's kind of like the domino effect. If I can affect you, Paul, then you will be able to affect others, even these, the people listening to this podcast and so on and so forth. If there's that, you know, your audience takes away from this particular podcast, I feel like I've contributed to my. Why?

Speaker A: Okay. All right, cool. All right. Uh, I've got a bunch of questions coming up from what you just said. So the first one is, when you say you help business leaders live their best lives, do you mean make the most money, achieve their financial goals, or do you mean their personal happiness? Because, and I have to ask this because, you know, it could go both ways. Right?

Speaker B: So, so it's a great question. And, and, uh, it, uh, what I say is it depends on the actual individual. Now, m. What I've learned as a business owner is that I can't separate my business from my life. It's just all blended together. And so, you know, the, the, the business, uh, name that I have for a bit, it's BOS360. And so business operating system 360 degrees. It's really, how do you manage this crazy life of an entrepreneur? And, and so I think it's the blended would be my answer. So it's. Is, what are you looking for in your life? And are you getting what you want from your business? Are you getting what you want from your energy, uh, as a person? How about your personal growth? Are you continuously learning new things? Where are you? And so it's a conversation that we start with and we evolve from there. But, uh, the three pillars that I talked to you about are really the foundation, and we have no. We evolve from there. So some. Some of my clients would say, well, I really want to fix my business, or I. And when I say fix, I mean, you know, just get more out of my business. You know that, because I know I can. Uh, there's some frustration there, usually about different areas. Um, now, just to be clear, I'm m not a turnaround expert. Like, if the business is broken, that's not me. I'll invite them to go see another friend of mine. Uh, for me, it's more around, like, it's not quite dialed in, and I can help you. Um, and so there's. Usually it starts with the business component, and then it evolves from there and understanding that, uh, there's much, so much more to the entrepreneur than just the business. Um, and so then we evolve in the conversation.

Speaker A: Okay, very interesting. Um, I have a question for you because this is something I've struggled with in the past with some, uh, of the clients I'm looking at. Um, how do you decide who you want to work with and what do I mean by that? So let's make it an extreme case. Let's say you meet a potential client, they want to work for you, but you realize that they're, you know, they're not, um, the most honest business people or what they're trying to do is maybe shady. And I'm. I'm giving an extreme example here, but hopefully you don't meet too many of those. You know, will you. Will you refuse or have you refused to work with certain clients because you just don't connect with them?

Speaker B: Right. Um, this is also something that I've, like, I have to say, like, I'm seven years old, so I have a little bit of a, you know, a journey in me. And so there's some things that I've learned along the way. And again, I have to say that early in my days, I would. I just take on anybody. Uh, I'm not in the coaching piece, but in my entrepreneurial journey, because I truthfully just needed to get sales going, and therefore I just kind of picked up whatever I could. Uh, I just needed to survive. And so I get that. I've been there, done that. I understand when my, you know, as I, I journeyed and moved forward, I started to understand that, you know, I was, I was actually creating a lot of havoc and a lot of pain in my life when I did take on some clients that were not a good fit. And so today, um, no, my, and we'll talk probably about sales process and what my, my first, once I do get a lead in, um, the first thing that I would do is are they target market and then I have a conversation with them and I call it a discovery meeting. I spend an hour and a half with my clients and I tell them out of the gates, look, I know you're curious about what I'm doing. Uh, however, it may not be a good fit. So again this is my abundant mindedness or that's how I approach it. And it's really. And I tell them it's about fit. Like you need to be convinced that what I have for you, um, is really something that you can use and you feel that it's going to be, um, useful for you, uh, and impactful. And I also need to feel the same way because truth be told, uh, sometimes it's not a good fit. And I have said no to some entrepreneurs. I remember um, one point there was this, this person in Ontario that, because I coach in Montreal, in Toronto, uh, as well. And this guy was, you know, we sat down, he was explaining to me what was going on his business and, and, and how he was overwhelmed and how he was having issues and different things and that's fine. And um, at the end of the conversation I said, you know, um, I don't want to waste your time, um, because you've just told me that what I have for you, you actually won't do. And he, and he said, what do you mean? He said, yeah, of course I will like that. I want to do this. And I said, actually you won't because you've just explained to me what was going like how you behave and how you do things. And, and I said, you know, it's not going to work out. And he was upset with me. But I said, you know, at the end of the day I'm here to really be impactful. I knew he wasn't going to do the work. So the analogy I have here, Paul, is that, you know, sometimes, um, so, so think about like, uh, if you wanted to get in great shape, what would you probably do?

Speaker A: Go to the gym.

Speaker B: Go to the gym. That's Right. And so you'd sign up for the gym. You go to the gym, and if you really wanted to get awesome, you probably get a coach and, and they would teach you how to work out because that's the fast track on getting strong. You, you could show up to the gym, you might get injured if you don't know what you're doing, etc. But the, the idea is that you probably get a coach to fast track, uh, uh, your, um, whatever your goals and objectives are. However, this guy was telling me like, I'm signing up to the gym, but I knew that he might go to the gym but probably wouldn't work out, uh, maybe socialize and eventually wouldn't show up. He'd have the membership, but he wouldn't show up at the gym. So it's one thing to want, but you. Absolutely. It's all about taking action.

Speaker A: Um, so I totally agree with you and I love it. I want to know though, how quickly do you know that they're not the right fit? And what are the qu. What are the questions you ask? Like what's the kind of question you ask someone and what is it that made you say like, you know what, you know, it's not that I don't like you, whatever, but when you're answering this, I, I know you're not going to do it because obviously there's some questions or there's a structure to that question which sort of brings us to your sales process. But you know, tell me what, what are the questions or uh, what are the things you're looking for to figure out whether there's a fit or not?

Speaker B: Yeah, you bet. So I'm, I'm a real structured guy. I believe in processes, playbooks, etc, and mine like hour and a half discovery meeting is really like, I've taken a lot of time to think this through. And so there's, there's a couple sections to it. And um, you know, I tell them a little bit about me, what, what I do and, and how I, What m. My background is. Then I ask questions about them. Um, and so their biggest pain points, uh, and this is me qualifying them. Right. Um, and it's around the mindset like, yes, I want to know what, you know, some of their struggles. I call it the uh, 3am thoughts. And so I asked one of my questions is, so what keeps you awake at night? Or if you were to wake up at three in the m. Morning, what do you think about the business? That's a pain, a pain point for you. So I collect information from them.

Speaker A: You got to pause there. I love that. So you're telling me that you sit there with someone and you say, okay, when you wake up at 3am M and you're worried about your business, what do you think about what's your biggest problem?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Like what's keeping you awake? On it. And by the way, it's not always a problem.

Speaker A: It's at 1:00am It's 4:00am um,

Speaker B: there you go. Um, oftentimes I'll hear a problem. Once in a while I'll hear an opportunity. Right. So the 3am thoughts are not always problematic. Sometimes you're super excited about an opportunity, but there might be roadblocks. You're not sure how to get to it or how to, uh, attack it, etc. To be successful. So. So I want to be clear that these 3am thoughts are not always problematic in nature. There's times opportunistic. Um, and so it's an interview. Right. I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me at this point. I'm always with the senior leadership team. It's not one on one. So it's one.

Speaker A: Okay. No, it's okay. All right. Okay.

Speaker B: That's right. So my, my discovery meeting, I've had a pre meeting here. So to qualify and I let the owner of the business know that if you're interested, I give an hour and a half of my time and by the time we're done, you're going to know if this is for you or not. And vice versa. The same.

Speaker A: And they bring it. So they bring in the leadership team after that hour and a half for that hour and a half meeting.

Speaker B: Correct. And so, and I also tell them, so this is also part of my process is that I let them know when I in my qualifying call that no matter what happens, one, it's, you know, you're getting me for free for an hour and a half. Um, and I will be leaving you and your leadership team some tools that are super powerful. And even if we don't do business together, you can walk away with some things that you can do right away that will impact your business in a positive way. Like that's guaranteed. And so the only risk of that

Speaker A: is no matter what, they walk away with tools, they have a 90 minute meeting. So I guess the risk you're about to say. Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker B: Yeah, the only risk is really the time of you and your executive team or leadership team spending time with me. Um, but hopefully you can see right away that, um, you know, there's Benefit, you know, coming out of that meeting, out of the gates.

Speaker A: And so, so that's because I still, I know I'm harping on this and don't get mad at me, but how. So you're having this 90 minute meeting. Okay, let's say you're talking to me and then you're going, no, it's not going to work.

Speaker B: Right. I'm getting to it, I'm coming there. Uh, but what I really want you and your audience to know here is that what's really important is that this is all baked in. Right. This is a formula. So my pre qualifying, if they, if they're coming and hawing and not sure that's a no for me. Uh, that's a, that's a hell no. Right? Because they have to be open minded to what I just said to them. Right. Low risk. Um, I'm going to give you tools like I'm giving you something and I'm giving you an hour and a half of my time. If they don't see the benefit of that, it's a hell no right away.

Speaker A: Well yeah, of course I don't want it right away. If right away they're saying, uh, if that means they maybe not trust you or they don't believe in you and you don't have time to waste with that.

Speaker B: I told, it's, they're, they're, they're not going to go to the gym, they're not going to go work out. So, so it's uh, a, that's my first quality.

Speaker A: They want to go to the ice cream store and eat a uh, sundae

Speaker B: or you know what, just forget it. Like so right away they need to be open minded and they want, they must want to grow.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because that's what I'm all about. So then I get them into the 90, right. Uh, like the, an hour and a half meeting, our discovery meeting. And that is where you know, it's a conversation. And by me asking questions now, because it's a senior leadership team, I also look for the group dynamics. So oftentimes, you know, I see who's speaking the most, who's taking over the conversation. I then facilitate the conversation and I typically uh, am mindful around asking every single person to speak their truth. And what I mean by that is really, and m I craft, uh, you know, questions like on a scale from 1 to 10, don't overthink it, just give it to me. Like how, how would you rate your meetings, this group from a scale from 1 to 10 and then then I say write it down. Right. And I want you to write it down. And then when I say, now let's share your information and say the number you wrote down so you're not influenced by other people in the room. And so sometimes they, and giggle and they look at each other and, and I can start. I mean, again, I've been doing this for a while, so I can see the dynamic of the group.

Speaker A: So this way, Shelby.

Speaker B: Um, so I, so I have to tell you, I took on one client a while back. Uh, they were in, they were doing, um, it was a roofing company and, and now they were really growing quickly. Um, and it was metal roofing and whatnot and whatever. I mean, there's a bunch of them out there. So. But the, the, this team was highly dysfunctional. Dysfunctional. And so in my discovery meeting, I saw it. Uh, but again, truth be told, I'm not perfect. I thought I needed a client and they wanted to do this. And I said, nah, uh, you know, I was a little bit, you know, myself, dysfunctional and said, you know what, I think I can save these people.

Speaker A: Like, I think, uh, you had the messiah.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: We all get that as consultants. We can help them, we can save them.

Speaker B: Exactly. Now, now, this was a really big lesson for me because in the discovery meeting I was qualifying them. There was a few things going on. One, I needed a client. Two, I said, I think I can turn them around. Um, but I have to tell you that it was less than a year. I think we worked together eight months. And this was, um, you know, there was a tyrant, you know, inside yelling, uh, and screaming, um, at his team and making people cry. And I thought, oh my gosh, like I kind of saw it. I didn't see to that degree. So I knew, oh yeah. Right away. And so my, my discovery meeting is sort of what, what lets me know that. Yeah, you know what? And I also have to feel that I can be impactful. Otherwise, what am I doing? I'm wasting, you know, their time, my time and their money. And so there's. I'm not going to do that.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. That's interesting. And, and um, you know, like, just, just to tell you a little bit about the way I do things is when I'm consulting, you know, I try to ask a lot of open ended questions and I don't, I don't have, um, you seem more structured than I am probably in the discovery process. And I'm curious, um, I'm curious and I, I'm Kind of leaning in a way to, to say that the fact that you ask the same questions probably gives you a very good feel. Feel. Because you have a lot of comparison in the past. Right? So, so asking, like the meeting thing, right, you, you probably know a little bit how it's going to go and you ask them to write the number first. But you probably know that there's probably in. In most companies, it ranges probably from, you know, 5 to 10, right when. And the people that say 5 probably feel bad, and the people that say 10 probably feel bad because they're too soft. And you're like, you kind of know how it's going to go. Am I correct?

Speaker B: You are. I mean, there is some, some history. But what I'm really doing here and the technique that I'm using here is in when I'm qualifying, because remember, I said I have a structured agenda for the meeting. And so we're at the second piece. The third piece is me sharing my tools. So what the client has just done is told me like, yeah, meetings, we suck. As an example. Right. Uh, I'm not sure, um, as, like, I'm just using these words as a trigger. And by the way, I do that sometimes in my teams. I'll use, uh, some words to kind of like wake people up and go, oh, wow, like, you just use that word. I'm like, yeah, because I want to wake you up. So that's what I was just doing there. But so if that is something I've discovered they're low or, or weak on, when I go to the third piece of my agenda, when I'm sharing my model, I'm going to double down on. Oh, you mentioned that you were, uh, let's say three average, three, four on how your meetings go when you get together. I just so happen to have a really great tool around meetings. Let me explain to you what that looks like. And so I'll spend. I'll slow down a little bit. In my model review, at that point where I saw the pain point, if they said we're like a 9, 10, um, I'm going to just say, hey, you know what, it sounds like you're doing great. Uh, we would just simply review making sure that maybe there's some tips I can give you to get like, to a 10 out of 10 all the time. And so this is a technique in the way my discovery meeting, uh, rolls out. So again, I've been like, I've thought this through and it helps me, um, you know, connect with the client and, you know, they start leaning right, like physically I start seeing them leaning in and when they're participating at one point I'm understanding that okay, they're engaged and that's what I'm looking for. That's also a, you know, a uh, yes or a no situation for me. So, so if they're starting to engage with me, most of the time like they don't know me. Like, who's this guy? You know, our, our owner just asked this person, there's another consultant, it's going to be the flavor of the month. And all of a sudden they get into the conversation with me and they, they realize this is different. This is not like it wasn't a, like we all were able to say something. We, he actually was able to pull a bunch of stuff out like in an hour and a half that uh, we never knew we were going to talk about. Etc. So they start seeing my style and all of a sudden at the end sometimes I've had a client say, okay, like sign me up, like let's go and I'm perfect. And again I'm mindful. Like I have a final slide of. Here's what it would look like if we were to do business now together. Um, and again, I use some techniques and if you just realize what I said, you know, I use the word now. Right. If we were to work together now, here's what it would look like. And so there's a little bit of, you know, NLP in there. I mean I'm a Tony Robbins guy too. Like I, I listen to his stuff, I've grown up, I study his thing. So, so I'm using all these different techniques. Um, only if I feel that this would be good for them. And again. Yeah, and, and so, yeah.

Speaker A: So another question I have, um, is when, when you're doing these, these 90 minute meetings, uh, you're probably discovering a lot of what you're going to be doing with them in the, in the future. Right? So if you're, how long do you work with clients typically?

Speaker B: So as long as they want. If, if I keep bringing them great stuff, why would they want to stop working with me? I mean I, it can be, it

Speaker A: can be a ten year relationship, right?

Speaker B: Uh, it can be, yes.

Speaker A: Okay. And do you meet them when you do have clients that you stay with a long time? Do, do you meet them once a month? Do you meet them once a week? Like how does that work?

Speaker B: Right. So, so my last um, agenda item is the ah, how does it look like if we were to work together I have a launching sequence because it is a system that I teach my clients. So I'm not, I don't consider myself a consultant. Like, I'm never going to tell my clients what they should or shouldn't do around their business. What I'm going to do is teach them set of tools. And, and it's really based on three things. The first thing is at, um, you know, we call it Momentum Day, which has to do with execution, excellence. And so again, simple tools that when they use them properly, they actually get results. What a concept, right? Um, and sometimes my, after I explain these tools to my clients, they look at me and literally sometimes they just kind of like, that's it, that's all you got. I'm like, yeah, let's do that at 100% and see what happens in the business. And then they look at me and kind of giggle sometimes go, yeah, okay. And then the second piece is what we call vision. And the vision is getting everyone aligned on where we're going. Because here's what I do with them. I said, okay, everyone take a piece of paper out, blank sheet. I usually provide them and say, okay, without talking to each other, write down what the vision of the business is. And they all start writing like they all have something in their head. And I said, okay, let's compare what we wrote. And it's similar, but, uh, like 100 of the time it's not exactly the same. And so I explained to them, I said, this is so critical that if someone asks you in the business, like, where are you taking us? That you have the same flippant answer, like it's got to be. And so this is again, so the second piece is alignment. So there's a whole way that I have a two page strategic plan, uh, on how we. And it's really simple stuff, but it's really critical for the business. And the third part is what I call health. And so it's team health, team dynamics. We have some tools, uh, we deep into how do we actually speak our truth. Um, forget the ego. And so there's a lot of work. And I go to Patrick Lencioni here because he's a master at group dynamics. So anyone who, uh, is interested and curious, go look up, uh, Patrick Lencioni, Five dysfunctions of a team, um, you know, what makes a great team player, etc. There's, there's a lot, a lot there. And so I use some of that. So those are the three things that I do. So it's a system. And once the system is launched, then I see my clients for a full day once a quarter. And so what I've learned is that humans are well designed, we actually are well designed to be to work within a 90 day cycle. And so what I mean by that is we're pretty darn good at predicting 90 days out. But after that it's hard, it's hard to really predict in detail because there's so many moving parts, especially now. Right. And so with that, uh, I pulse with my team once a quarter and I let them know it's okay where, so what's happened in the last three months? Because there's always lessons learned and history tends to repeat itself. So we want to learn the lessons so we can predict better in the future. Then we check in together and say, where are we on the plan that we put together? Like what's happening right now? Where are we on track or off track? Um, and then we say, okay, what do we need to do in the next three months to be on track to stay uh, in tuned in with our strategic plan that we've put together? So that's kind of. And then I bring them. So that's what I do. That's like the major agenda. And then we spend some time on new tools. Uh, so every time I speak with or I see a client, I bring them something new that they can add. And so I stack, I stack these tools to run the business. And then once a year I do a two day annual, we call it a retreat, where, you know, you retreat away from your business, you retreat away from your family and you retreat away from your hometown. We go somewhere not too far and really it's a deep dive. Two days. We do great work on strategy. What's uh, happened in last year, where are we looking? We update, ah, our two page strategic plan, etc. And then they leave that two days with clarity on, okay, we know what we need to do in the next 12 months. And then I get them really good at being able to do, um, town halls, in other words, communicate well to the rest of their organization. Like, here's what we came up with and this is how you help. And so it's amazing to know how oftentimes employees understand how they impact the plan because one, they don't even know the plan. When they do, they don't know how to impact it. Well, I turn that around with my clients and say no here. And I teach them how to be great communicators as ah, leaders.

Speaker A: So Shelby, this is all great. It's Wonderful. What is it that gives you credibility when you meet with them? Is it your. Do you think it's your expertise? And this is. So it's an important question to me because I find it interesting. So, you know, in, in this consulting space and let's take it out of your world for a second. Often you have, uh, and I know it's not exactly consulting, it's more, it's more coaching. Uh, um, so in the coaching space you have a lot of people with different levels of expertise. Sometimes you have very young people, sometimes people who've had like, you know, multi, um, billion dollar companies. Um, and I guess my question to you is twofold. One, maybe what's your expertise that you bring to the table? And how important do you think past expertise is in being able to coach someone to do the right thing? In other words, do you need to be a pro hockey player to coach the hockey players, or can you be a young person that uses your system to coach other companies?

Speaker B: Right. Um, and so I think we started this, this podcast and one of the first things I said is like, well, life has been preparing me to be able to do what I do today. And so this is absolutely true. And so my, my. We were talking about my credibility while my background, um, you know, my DNA is through entrepreneurship. My grandmother was an entrepreneur, my parents both were entrepreneurs. And so it was kind of natural for start a business in my early 20s. Uh, I've had four successful businesses I've sold. One was in the aerospace industry. Um, I. Then the people I sold to was a large corporate, it was a global organization. So I got my quote unquote corporate MBA there. And so yes, it's, it's the hours in the business. And I have to tell you, like I, uh, the work I was doing in the past, I wasn't necessarily m. Passionate about, let's say the aerospace industry or specifically. But I was curious and interested. Did, um, but at one point, uh, I realized, wow, I have all this, this, this knowledge, I have all this background. And my, my business friends were telling me, shelby, you're pretty good. Like when I ask you to help me in my business, you've got this amazing knowledge. You, you pull out these tools and right away, like it's impactful. You should think about doing this full time. And I have to tell you at first.

Speaker A: Pause there. I said, let me press pause there for a second because before. And I just, I want to understand. It's not, it's not a, uh, criticism before you're telling me I try not to consult too much. I try to ask questions and use tools. So I guess my question to you is, I know you understand because you've had all those businesses, but do you sort of force yourself not to impart too much information so that it can come from them, or a big part of it is giving them experience that you've had?

Speaker B: Right. So it's a little bit of both, truthfully. And so my. My style is, I have learned that, uh, the best way, one of a really powerful way to communicate is through sharing of experiences. Be a storyteller of your experiences. And so a client tells me, here's my problem. And then I can respond with, yeah, like, I've had a similar situation in my life. Here's what, uh, happened to me. Here's what I did. Here are some of the tools that I have used. And then I stop. I don't take. I don't tell them, therefore, do what I did or don't do it. I. I just stop and let them decide for themselves. Oh, yeah, that works for me. Or it doesn't. Um, sometimes I'm more prescriptive. Uh, I do have experience. So if. If all of a sudden my clients, like, heading to, you know, the edge of the cliff and just about to, like, whoa, I'm gonna put the red flag and say, stop, you know, And I will do that. I will intervene. It's rare, but I would do that and say, okay, let's rethink this. Um, and I'll expose what I'm seeing, and then I'll let them validate that. Yeah, Shelby, what you're seeing is correct. And we had a blind spot here. Um, and then. Then we'll talk about, okay, what do we do next? And say we, because, again, the set of tools in the business operating system, the tools should help them wherever they are. The other interesting part, Paul, is that in all businesses, there's probably one or two handful of tools that will speak to most of the challenges they have. It's not that complicated. I had one person tell me once, Shelby, it's almost like you've got these secrets that once we know them, you can't unknow them. And now I can actually do something about it. Uh, but it's like going to the gym. You might know, you. We all know how to get in shape. Do I do it or not? Right? Then it's about moving attention, which is the key to anything.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's. It's. It's, um. Yeah, it's fascinating. So, hey, I Want to shift gears a little bit? Um, tell me about your, your sales approach. And what I mean by that is, like, how do you market? How do you get people, um, how do you get people to sit down with you? Like, how do you, you know, your prospecting calls? Where do you find your people? What's your approach? Like, let's try marketing. How do people get to know about Bos360?

Speaker B: Sure. Um, and so I'm going to give you two stories again. Storytelling.

Speaker A: Right. So podcast is all about. So, yeah, that's. That's why you're here, Shelby.

Speaker B: Perfect. Um, so when I decided to get into coaching, um, I didn't even have a website for the first two years. And. And so why? Because I had all these business friends. Because I'm a business person and I was part of this EO group and ypo, and therefore I swam in a pond of like, uh, minded individuals. We were all business owners. And therefore I just started letting them know the new thing I was doing. And literally just calling my friends up by the phone say, hey, I'm excited about my next chapter here in my life and I just want to share with you, um, what I'm doing. And it's not to get a sale. It's to get some feedback of thinking, you know, about what I'm doing. And in my heart, that's what I was doing. And I have to tell you that there was one group of business individuals and friends that I was with, and there was nine of them. And I was really, like, testing, testing it out. I was like, that's what I was like, hey, let me just kind of, I want to get feedback. And at the end, it was the discovery meeting, right? That's what I was doing. And at the end, four of them looked at me and they said, okay, like, sign me up. And I thought, what? Like, what, what just happened? I thought, oh, that's interesting. And so that my first go to is, um, there's a lot of head trash. I call it that way around marketing, sales. I have to do all these things. I have to be perfect. I didn't even have a frigging website. And so at one point, you just need to go like, what's the low hanging fruit here?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And my answer was, call my friends. Like, call the people I know. Just call them and have a conversation. So if there's one thing in sales is get on the flip, like on the phone, talk to people, get in the habit. Them, like, it's a muscle every day, talk to people about what you're doing. So that's, that's, that's like the low hanging fruit, right? And eventually is it like I don't have any more people to talk to. Okay, then pick up the phone, call Paul. Paul. Right. Because like we've like, okay, he's not a client of mine.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But Paul knows other people and so just share with people what you're doing. So that's, that's the first piece. Now my business has evolved. Now I'm a solo coach right now I have a, uh, you know, an assistant. I have an ea. I have other people around me that help me. But I am trying to now scale my coaching business with other coaches. And so this is where now I need to get Boss 360 exposed to the world. And so we are in the early days of this. One of the things that I've noticed and um, by the way, um, ever. All the best coaches. Coaches, right? Um, I get coached and so my

Speaker A: coaches, for a second, would you say all your best, best coaches? What?

Speaker B: So all the best coaches have coaches?

Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker B: All right. And so I have a coach, his name is Dan Martell. Look him up. He just wrote a book, uh, called buy back your time. And so I am in his program. I use his stuff, uh, all the time, uh, for myself and for my clients. All this to say is I am learning that the traditional method of marketing is really fading out. And right now the play in the future has to do with personal branding, has to do with how do you actually impact. You need to be connected, uh, to, uh, an audience, a, uh, lot of people. One of the reasons why I'm on your podcast, like we talked about this, this is me coming out to the world and saying, yeah, here's who I am. Um, most of us just kind of say, yeah, I don't want to feel like I'm bragging when I'm talking about these, you know, what's happening in my business or maybe even some things that I'm doing in my life. However, um, I've come to the realization is that I'm actually doing my clients a disfavor, uh, for not sharing what I actually know and what's happening in my life. And so, um, I had a switch in my mindset. So marketing in the traditional sense. Yes. We're still, you know, we have a website now. Uh, we're moving in a direction of getting testimonials. All the regular things that you would see that would be standard. But I'm trying to stay it's a little bit, you know, a couple steps ahead with what's going to really make a difference in the future. And it has to do with creating this kind of m. It's almost like a media empire around the brand. And so that would be the, you know, the, the secret sauce, if you will, if that you're getting from me today is that. My realization is that, uh, the traditional sense of marketing, we're seeing some of the, that, um, but really it has to do with putting, uh, myself out there, speaking, uh, to the world. And it's going to take anywhere from six to, you know, 18 months. Uh, I mean, if you looked at my Instagram, I, I have no followers or very little.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So I'm at like, ground zero, which is super exciting. Other people get discouraged. I'm like, no, man. Like, I've got so much to, like, to look forward to. And so, so with that, that. That's kind of would be my answer.

Speaker A: Okay. And, and Shelby, uh, you talk about Instagram. Like, what's your, what's your opinion on the social media tools, do you think? Like, I, I would have thought you'd be more a LinkedIn guy just because you're, you're dealing with businesses.

Speaker B: Sure. And, and so you're right. So LinkedIn is, is. There's a few, uh, platforms. Again, I'm learning this. And so I have a, I've set up a team around me to be able to do this properly. And so I'm personally still learning. So, yes, you know, LinkedIn is definitely, um, one of my. Go to platforms, uh, Instagram, and then we'll see where else it goes. Right. Um, those are the baselines for sure.

Speaker A: Okay, I want to switch gears. I want to know about Shelby the person now because obviously you run a successful business and that's interesting and that's probably how we met. But to me, you know, getting back to Simon Sinek, I find your why really interesting. And, and I find your motivation behind what you do very interesting, too. So I know that you had a business when you were young. Um, you know, you used to go up and down stairs, uh, you know, selling, um, I think it was printing cartridges, uh, or recycled printing cartridges. Tell me about Shelby the guy. Like, how. What drove you towards this business? Like, tell me more about you. Sure.

Speaker B: Um, so thank you for asking that question because it, first of all, it is personal and, and so my. I'll only answer it if I'm asked the question. And so, um, you know, baseline of who I am. So it's A little bit of, ah, you know, you know, if you really knew me, uh, you would know that I'm a spiritual person. And, um, for me specifically, Christianity is what I have chosen, um, to. Because I understand it. And it came from my grandmother and my parents. However, they've always said, we believe in God. You decide what you want to do with it. And there were a couple of triggering events in my life that I came back to. That question of do I really believe in this or, or not. And, uh, at the age of 15, I said, yeah, you know what? I'm all in. Um, and so. And that was a pivotal time in my life. And then, you know, back and forth in my faith. Um, and then I had a pretty major, uh, life threatening event. I had a liver tumor, um, that, you know, had to have a major operation. It was the size of like, small grapefruit, all this good stuff. Um, and that kind of, like, I was recovering and that timing of recovery. And when this happened, because it happened to me, I feel it happened to me. Um, I had time to think. Three, three months of recovery. And it was when I had pivoted my business. I had borrowed over a million and a half bucks, uh, to invest in a manufacturing. Um, I had put my house up for collateral. Um, we had to stop getting salary because, uh, our programs and our clients were delaying their orders. Uh, and then all of a sudden, I have a liver tumor and I have this major operation. Um, and what the hell, what's happening in my life? I had, uh, two kids at that time. My second baby was just born. I have three kids now. And, and there was one night where I was thinking, like, I, I was sweating, like, what the, like what am I going to do? What's happening? Um, and then I went to bed. Uh, I woke up in the morning and it was, it was like I was a changed person. I had a sense that there's no way in hell that I'm dying because I've been putting on the. I've been put on this earth to do something that is way bigger than me. And this, this is just like a hiccup. And I just need to, like, plow through this. Um, and this is where I came back to my faith and that was my anchor and said, you know what? I believe I have a creator and I've been putting, put on this earth to do something. And so the way I explain it is I've been put on this earth to glorify my creator or glorify God. And then it goes to Well, I have an expertise and everything we've just shared so far, so that's very personal to me. Um, however, it is my anchor. It grounds me.

Speaker A: Um, like, you know, we've had this conversation and, you know, I'm, I'm not religious, but I respect your, your religious aspect, uh, of thing, but it must also guide. It must also. Do you think it guides the way that you help your clients? Like, uh, has it had an effect on how you treat people? Are you more, uh, open minded? Are you more wanting to help them? Are you less. Like you said before, I'm less transactional. I want to help my clients. Do you think that spirituality has affected that, or is it just all part and parcel of Shelby regardless?

Speaker B: Well, I think that it's certainly, it has a big play. I mean, again, if you think of a, uh, house like, that would be certainly my foundation, my personal foundation, uh, and I build from there. And the next level to my foundation is my personal core values. And so that I developed. And then as, as an individual, those ground me. And I really take decisions based on my personal core values. And, and so those are my guiding principles. And by the way, I do that kind of work with my clients understanding what the business core values are, and by the way they're discovered. Right? It's not something that you wish to become. And so I had a really hard look in my life and say, okay, if I was to have like a team, um, you know, taking footage of me for a whole week, uh, like 24, uh, hours a day, what would the result of what they filmed actually point to? Uh, this is what Shelby's all about. It's what you do on a consistent basis is what you actually value. And so that's a clue. Like, I. And so there's many. I mean, that's in a really short, like, I, I have many different exercises around discovering your core values, personal or business. Um, so I would say that would be like the next level. And then it goes from, okay, very,

Speaker A: very, uh, very interesting. You know, to me, anyone who's in business, anybody who tries to help other business people. You know, unless you're making a widget and you're manufacturing, you're sitting there and all, you don't talk, talk to people, you just send it somewhere else and the distributor sells it for you. But to me, anyone who's, um, interacting with other people, uh, has a service because it's a service. Right? You're, you're. Yes, you're a coach, you're a consultant. But to me, Anyone who does that, who doesn't have the objective of helping and doesn't see themselves as someone who can share knowledge or help people discover the knowledge, shouldn't be in that business. Now, we all come to it from different ways, right? So if you had to tag religion on me, you'd probably call me a Buddhist more than anything else, right? Because I have those kinds of beliefs. But I know a lot of people who don't have beliefs who come at it from a different area. But we all tend to. The people I find are honest. We all tend to come with a similar moral compass, which is. Is I want to help the person in front of me. Right. And I know we've had this long discussion, and you know your core values as an individual and you as, uh, a Christian, it comes out that way. But I guess my point here is, and I say this to people often, if you're selling something you don't believe in, you're a shyster. You know, you're just a. But if you're selling something, if you're offering a service or you're selling something that you truly believe can make a positive difference, well, that's where you grow and you feel good about what you sell. And the one thing I get from you, talking to you, is you really believe in what you do. And I think you're really trying to help your clients move forward. And I like seeing that because as a younger person, before I went into business, I just thought that all business people, they just want to make. Make money, they just want to screw people and they just want to have a big house. Um, so it's really nice for me as I. As I know more and more business people that really want to make a difference. Um, yeah, and it's. It's. It's nice to see that. Hey, I. On. On a totally. On a totally separate, um, tangent, I want to talk a little bit about Shelby a little bit more. And I know that you do things, uh, with people. You, you know, you. You bring people on trips. Tell me more about that, because I find that fascinating. I. I like that side of you. Like that sort of personal side of you that. That, you know, brings people on trips and, and you know about the. The sailing. So tell me a little bit more about that.

Speaker B: Um, so the. So my sailing experience. So, um, this is where, um, we'll talk about passion or, you know, the passions do you have in your life that lights you up. And again, I talked to my clients about this is, um, and I. Again, one of my past mentors or coaches, um, was working with me around being able to identify specific things and naming, uh, ah, naming things in my life that I couldn't actually kind of put my finger on. And one of the questions she had for me is she looked at me one day and she said, shelby, um, are your, um, are your needs being met? And I kind of went, what are you talking about? Um, and she says, no, like are your needs being met? And I thought she said, it's not about being selfish, it's about your needs being met. And I was at a point in my life where it was busy. I mean, you know, we had three young kids, um, like so many activities with them. I was running a business. It was like crazy. And what she realized and what in the conversation, what I realized is that I was living my life for my family, my kids, for other people and my business and I wasn't taking care of my needs. And so one of the things that I started thinking about is, okay, what do I really love? Um, that when I do that activity, like time stops or it just doesn't exist. So I'm, in other words, I'm in flow. And so it's kind of being in the zone. And one of those things for me,

Speaker A: by the way, is very Buddhist.

Speaker B: Yeah. And by the way, like my Christianity background, um, I would say, like, I'm very open minded. Um, I believe what I believe. Uh, but I don't judge others because again, I come, I come to a conversation, I have Paul curiosity and we have great conversations.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so, um, I'm open to, you know, the conversations. And so all this to say is that for me, sailing, was that that time where when I get on my sailboat, um, everything just kind of chills. And I, I, I remember very specifically where my, I was super stressed. There was a while back, a couple years back, and my wife kind of looked at me and she saw that I was stressed and she goes, you know what you need to do? Just go on your boat. And I was like, yep, that's what I need to do. And I didn't even go sailing. I just went on the boat and I started and I sent out. And so that my, I guess my, my, my, my story here is that what is that for you? Like what is your thing? And so I have, have, you know, a local, I have a boat here locally, but you can't sail every day in the winter time. So it's, you know, six months out of the year I can sail. And the other six, uh, months out of the year. One of the things that I've done is I've participated, um, in an ownership group, and we bought a boat. Uh, it's a ocean racing boat called Il Mostro. It's a Volvo 70 Ocean Racer. And so as a owners, we, um, we offer, um, different sailing, uh, expeditions, uh, on this boat, um, through a, uh, company. So we. We've, um, you know, a company manages the boat, and they put on these, like, pretty epic sailing adventures where if you really wanted to, anyone with sailing, like, zero sailing experience to being a pro can get on this boat. And it's a little bit. The analogy is, if you don't know sailing, think of an F1 race, and you know, the ones that, like the really fast ones, and we have the, uh, Formula one races here in. In Montreal. And while that car, the, uh, equivalent to it on the water is the type of boat that we have. And so it's. It's a fast and phenomenal, very technical, um, intimidating to me. Even though I. I don't know, I'm an intermediate, I would say I'm not quite to the. The pro status, uh, but. But I know what I'm doing. Um, so this boat, you know, I. Allows anyone to, uh, cross an ocean. And that was kind of my drive. I, like. I have a bucket list, so I call it a bucket list. It's really all these big things I'd like to do in my lifetime, and one of them was to cross the Atlantic Ocean, which I did on this boat. Um, and. And there are some smaller events as well. Um, you know, last summer I. From. From Bermuda to Halifax. And it wasn't a race, it was a delivery on this boat. But the interesting part is I learned about, um, you know, that particular journey and, um, you know, the. Everything that has to do with it. And the. The conditions change often. So anyway, I can. Don't get me started on this topic because I could take, you know, talk your ear off for about, like, five hours for real. Um, but. But I guess the. The message is, you know, when my coach looked at me and said, uh, you know, are you taking care of yourself, Shelby? Like, what are your passions? Um, are your needs be met? That was one of the things that we talked about. There were multiple other things around that topic, but, um, it's around passions, that really lights me up because, again, being an entrepreneur and a business owner, like, it's. It's kind of a crazy life. And so I need a bit of a pause to be able to say, yeah, you know, What I'm experiencing life to the fullest. Um, you know, my wife's, you know, equivalent would be tennis. And, and so, uh, she's an amazing tennis player, and she, she really works hard at it. And, and she's serious about it. And when we go out there, there's no way I'm beating her. Like, she's like, really good. And I'm competitive, so. No, like, I just can't. And, and it's. It's. And it's. It's an amazing thing. And I try. Like, come on. I'm. I am competitive and I'm pretty athletic, but she is so good. Good. But this is a great thing. So I say it like this because again, you just find your thing outside of all the other things that is for you. Um, and, and that's, uh, that's really been helpful for me.

Speaker A: That's great. That's good. Well, Shelby, you know, I, I really. Thanks for. For. Thanks for taking the time to talk about all this. Is there a question I didn't ask you? Is there something that we didn't talk about that you think, Think the. The audience might be interested in knowing a little bit more about you?

Speaker B: I, I don't, um. I don't know if it's about me, but if there's. There's one thing that, That I kind of jotted down and it has to do with. As I was, you know, um, early in my career, when I was a little younger, uh, you know, I was. I was taking all the sales classes, this. Sales courses, et cetera. Again, because it is. There is a technique behind it, so that's fine. But once you know the technique, it's really about reps. And so eventually the technique becomes natural. And that when the technique becomes natural, that's where the. It goes from transactional to relational. And when you get. When you're able to do the relational part, what happens is this transfer of trust and, and that is selling. That is how selling works. And so, you know what? Uh, if you're just starting your. In your career in sales, that then. Yeah, learn the techniques. You have to. You need to understand how works at one point. Now, at first it's going to be clunky, and then at one point, um, so you got to get your reps in. And at one point it becomes kind of very natural. You're not thinking about it. So you. From being in your head to being in your heart, and that. That's where that, like the trust happens. The transactional no longer is a thing. And it's more of a relational. Ah. So I don't know, I think that that's great.

Speaker A: So I want to add to that because as you know, I do a lot of sales coaching. And one of the things. And it's exactly what you're saying. Yeah. Is when, when I'm teaching people to prospect or to, to do cold calls, I will get them to say, verbatim, uh, a specific script, like, uh, I make them work within a very hardcore box. And. Exactly. You call it reps, I call it practice. And then I get them to memorize it, and then I get them to personalize. And once it's been personalized and memorized and integrated, like you just said, you call it relational. I say it becomes natural. It's the same thing, is it becomes a part of you. And then what happens is that because it's in your muscle memory, like doing reps or whatever, you're able to focus on the person's reaction. So all the subtle body language cues, all the non verbal cues, all the verbal cues, and then you're able to really make it yours. And making it yours is not necessarily changing all the words. It's how you deliver it. It's the melody in your voice, it's your tone, it's your approach, it's your timing. And I find when you just said that and, and I'm happy you brought it up because that's a huge part of being sincere. It's about it being part of you. And if it never becomes part of you, then it's just tactical and it's never relational. And people never feel that you're being sincere. And if they feel you're not being sincere, human beings will run in the other direction because they know. They know from the look in your eyes, they know from the tone in your voice, you know, and part of the reason you're on this podcast is because I think you're a sincere person and you have that. You, you, you, you. You know, you talk about Tony Robbins. You know, I've been listening to Tony Robbins for years too. And you know, when I first listened to Tony Robbins in the 80s, he had those tapes and it was just to me, I was like, oh, God, he seems like so schmaltzy. But as I got to know him and understood him, he's all about the real human being coming through and really truly wanting to help people. And you know, again, one of the reasons I invite you on this podcast is because I feel Shelby, the entire person, you know, the guy who sales the Guy who's spiritual, the family man, the businessman. They all coordinate together and they all circulate together. And what I kind of like most about you is you're different than me, but we have some similarities in that we want to help out our clients. And I think you, you, you're making a difference. And I hear the passion in your voice. Uh, I, I hear the way you deliver it. So to me, it, it, it's really an honor to have someone like you on the podcast and, and to just express and, and to see the enthusiasm and the energy. Because honestly, Shelby, a lot of people, you know, at our age, in their 50s, who are doing something don't have that same kind of passion. They're just thinking retirement. And when I look at you think, this guy doesn't want to retire. He wants to help people and go, go, go. And I, uh, love that, you know,

Speaker B: so, so I, I mean, that, that'll touch on something else. I mean, maybe another little, um, you know, gold here in our conversation is, um, I'm a lifelong learner, and I will never stop learning. And here's a little something for, for that. Again, not a lot of people know about me, but, um, you know, I, I, I. My university career led, uh, me to university in New Brunswick for one year. Then I came back to Concordia, did some skiing on the, um, ski team, downhill ski team. And at one point at Concordia, I realized that no school, that type of learning wasn't actually helping my businesses that I had started. And so I left university without graduating because in my head I thought, I'm

Speaker A: not gonna let my kids listen to this podcast. Shelby.

Speaker B: No, but you know what? It's, it's, it's, it's about learning styles. And so I think that the message is, like, like, I've got three kids. I'm like, yeah, go to university, get that, like, that degree. Uh, however, uh, I realized it was not helping me in my business, but I knew that I needed to continue learning. And I've never stopped learning since then. I've gone to mit. I've done an entrepreneurial class there for three years. Like, I've never stopped.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And, and so, and it comes back to what I was reading last night. I've been part of a, um, another learning group called Strategic Coach. And I was reading, uh, some of what Dan Sullivan, the, the founder, was talking about, about your future needs to be bigger than your present all the time. Otherwise, like you, your future needs to be bigger than your current status. And so that's just the mindset and he talks about, you know, living to 156 years old. And, and people misunderstand that. It's all about the mindset of, of, uh, looking forward to the future. And, and it's a head. What happens is your, your mind changes around, you know, retirement and working till the last day, until I can just stop working. Like, what are you doing? Like, in my mind, I, I, I, I teach all my clients in that, uh, like, life is short. Should it be like an enjoyable ride and just do the things you love to do forever. Like, why stop doing it? So you're right, I will never. I, like right now, I, I, why should I stop doing what I'm doing? I mean, I am taking care of my health. I am learning all the time and I'm contributing. And so that's impactful. That's what I'm all about. And, and so, uh, with that, um, there's one last thing, if you allow me. Do we have time?

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker B: And so talking about sales and kind of wrapping up there that, you know, I realized this week that, you know, I have capacity in my, my agenda. What, what that means is, uh, I can go and get a couple more clients. And so after this podcast, um, it's all about technique. And so I'm literally moving to action. I'm going to get on the call, like, on the phone, and I'm going to call at least five people.

Speaker A: People.

Speaker B: And those five people will be my clients. Yes, I'm going to be following up, checking in on them, but I will be asking for referrals because they are raped fans of mine, and I will ask them. And so the, the message here is really simple. That's technique. Technique. Right. The technical side of it is saying it's all about those reps of like, I still do phone calls. Um, I just also know what gets me clients and it's referrals. And so that's the, the quickest way for me to get. So I'm going to do that literally today. I'm going to make at least five phone calls, uh, to different clients, uh, to ask them how's it going? And by the way, do you know anyone that could use what you're getting from me? Uh, and if so, I think introduction.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: So I think just wanted to kind of land on that.

Speaker A: I love that. And I have one last closing, closing I'd like to take, if you don't mind, maybe five minutes. I'd love for you to, if you're, if you're Comfortable doing this. Do one of, one of the exercises, a short one that you do with your team so that, that we see what, what this shall be like one short exercise that you're comfortable sharing that doesn't give the secret sauce away.

Speaker B: Sure. Um, gosh, there's so much I, I, there's so much we can do here. Um, a short one.

Speaker A: Let's give it like 5, 10 minutes max. Because.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, well, maybe we'll, we'll go on the core values side of things because it's, it's also true for your business and for you personally.

Speaker A: So I was gonna say, yeah, we gotta do something you can only do with one person.

Speaker B: That. Right. So, so that's why I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like what? There's many things. And so this will be for you personally or, um, or possibly, uh, your, your, your senior leadership team. And it's around discovering your core values. And so I'll do this. Paul, if you're ready, do you have something?

Speaker A: I'm totally ready. Yeah, I got pen and paper. I'm ready.

Speaker B: Perfect.

Speaker A: Or keyboard.

Speaker B: So, uh, I'd like you to, to think about, um, three people in your life. Um, you, in your, in your life, living or dead or even fictional. Right. Maybe that you really admire. And so just think of like three individuals, uh, living or not, uh, or fictional, that you, you totally admire. So if, if you're looking at your page, put those names on the left hand side of your page. One, uh, after the other. Give some spacing in between the, the three words you can do. I mean, the three people. You can do three or five. We're gonna do three for now. Do you have your three people or you're thinking, uh, just take your time.

Speaker A: There's one person I want to add. It's a little corny, but I'll put it in anyways. Okay. I have them.

Speaker B: You got them. Okay.

Speaker A: We didn't practice this before people, by the way.

Speaker B: I know, exactly. So the very first name on top. Are you willing to share what that name was?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'll share all of them.

Speaker B: So, okay, so the first. Okay, so just. So, um, what's the first person?

Speaker A: They're not in order, by the way. They're just like.

Speaker B: No, it's fine.

Speaker A: So the first person is a person called, called Roy Wilson. He's someone that I knew, uh, that I met when I was in my early 20s. And he was at that time already in his late 80s. We became buddies. He was an English immigrant who came here from England who's an architect. Um, every day in the winter.

Speaker B: Good. That's good. So, so, so stop there for a second. So that's good. I just. Okay, that was good. That's okay. Now what I, what I want you to do is think about Roy. And on the right hand side of the page, write some words, some adjectives, um, about Roy that made him so great. And so what, maybe a personality style, a trait. Uh, what is it about Roy? Like you said, you know, he, he sentenced like he was cross country skiing. So he was still fit. Like, whatever. Like he. What made him so great?

Speaker A: Okay. All right, done.

Speaker B: So probably four or five, six different words and then go to your second person. Who's the second person?

Speaker A: Uh, it's my grandmother.

Speaker B: Your grandma. So your grandmother. And so again, what are the things that you appreciate about your grandmother? What are the four or five different words that describes what you really value from this person? Like, wow, this is. I'm really admiring from, from this person.

Speaker A: Okay, got it.

Speaker B: And then your third person is.

Speaker A: It's my wife.

Speaker B: Yes. And so do we want to say her name?

Speaker A: Yeah. Mary Jose or MJ or Jose.

Speaker B: So what about Mary Jose? And same thing. Uh, what, what are the things that you really admire about Mary Jose?

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: The fourth. So that is kind of weird.

Speaker B: Say it again.

Speaker A: The fourth person is kind of weird.

Speaker B: Okay. Do you want to talk about the fourth person? Yeah. Okay, so go ahead.

Speaker A: Marcus Aurelius.

Speaker B: Yes. Okay, um, so historic figure for sure. Okay, so. And, uh, right hand column. Same kind of same scenario.

Speaker A: Okay, got it, got it.

Speaker B: Um, okay, so, um, are you willing to share, um, your right hand column of the magic. So, so just walk through what you wrote down. No more than that. And just kind of go right through the whole list.

Speaker A: Okay, so Roy Wilson. Kind, uh, open minded, uh, knowledgeable and musical. Uh, got it.

Speaker B: And then Agnes.

Speaker A: Caring, uh, selfless, tough. Um, a woman of her era. Yeah. MJ M Embodies kindness. Intelligent, and she's a yogi. Or yogi, they say. And then Marcus Aurelius, I put leadership. Um, trailblazer, philosopher.

Speaker B: Great. Now that you've gone through that list, look at that list and circle the four or five things that pop off the list that you really connect with. And by the way, if there's they're repeated, that's a clue.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Just like the, the four or five things that just like. Oh, yeah, that, that, that pops right off the list to me, because they're all great things, but there's some things that you're just kind of like connecting with more than other words. Just circle those.

Speaker A: Okay, Got them.

Speaker B: Okay. Which ones were they?

Speaker A: Uh, kind, open minded, selfless, embodies, uh, kindness, leadership.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so what I've just done with you is I've actually, uh, it's not a trick, but what I've done is I've, um, I've deflected the question. And if I was to ask Paul, what are your core values? You would have been like, maybe stumped. Unless you've done a bunch of work on this. And so I'm not saying that your core values are the ones you circled, but they're definitely directional towards that. And so core values are discovered. And what I've done is I've actually. What you admire in these four people is what you value as a person.

Speaker A: I love Shelby. This is. I love it. I'm. I'm blown away. So this is great. This is really good. Because you're right, it. You know, I wasn't expecting this. And the way you said it, it's so true. And obviously kind, open minded, selflessness, leadership, these are things that, that are important in what I do, you know, so they're more.

Speaker B: Paul, I would say they're more than important. They're actually core to who you are.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I know there you had, you know, for the, for the first person you had, I had the musician and there's a guitar in the back. So, like, you value all these things. These are important to you. They're actually at your core. And, you know, the work I do with clients is also like it. One of the things I've learned is that to the degree you know yourself, it's that no know thyself, then it's easy to say no to things because you understand what to say yes to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: When you're saying, you know, so it's, uh, your core values is that. You know how I mentioned, like, my foundation is my faith, and then my core values is in layer, uh, to my house, like, this is what we're talking about. It's the second layer. And when you know yourself, it's then kind of a lot easier to say no. The things that are not related to your core.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: So it becomes a filter for you and your life. And we do the same thing in companies. We say like, what are the company core values? Let's use that as a filter. It's culture in, in that case. Right. And we want to attract people that are like that. So there's a good fit because it's kind of a natural thing when they're going to go into the business. And so, anyway, so that. That's my little. Maybe seven minutes.

Speaker A: It's amazing. It's amazing. So thanks again, Shelby. Thank you so much. Uh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna stop the recording now, but stay on. Okay. So, uh, thanks a ton, Shelby. Uh, this is wonderful. Um, I love that last exercise. So, uh, yeah, uh, we'll see each other again, that's for sure.

Speaker B: That's true. I was totally off the cuff. Hopefully. I'm glad it landed. Yeah.