From Survival to Leadership: Building a Business Under Pressure with Erick Slabaugh

Speaker A: In today's episode, I sit down with Eric Slaybaugh, an entrepreneur whose journey didn't start with a vision. It started with a crisis. At Beats working we talk a lot about what happens when you don't really have a choice, when the path forward isn't clear, but standing still isn't an option. Eric shares how at, ah, 19 years old, he stepped into a failing family business because he was called to. That experience shaped the way he thinks about leadership growth and what it means to build something that lasts. It's a conversation about responsibility, about resilience, about the long, often invisible road between survival and success.

Speaker B: Welcome to Beats Winning the Game of Work. Hosted by Dan T. Rogers, this show invites you into conversations that go deeper than job titles and hustle.

Speaker A: It's about rethinking what work is for and how we can design it to

Speaker B: serve our lives, rather than the other way around. Here we'll talk with leaders, makers and thinkers who are doing more than earning a paycheck.

Speaker A: They're getting paid to practice life. Excited to have Eric Slabaugh on the show today. Eric, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker B: Truly a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Yeah. So in, uh, and I say this genuinely, this is not sarcastic, this is reality. Um, in one of the circles that we share is, uh, I think almost everyone globally knows who you are. But, uh, if, if, if they're not already in that circle. For folks that don't already know who you are, Eric, do you want to give us a little bit of an introduction as to who you are and what you, what you do for fun all day?

Speaker B: Uh, well, I can only assume that we're talking about the entrepreneurs.

Speaker A: Yes, we are talking about if someone is not an eo. Uh, if they're an eo, they know. Eric. If they're not an eo, they might. They may or may not.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and, and, uh, was once called the Young Entrepreneurs Organization. Fortunately, it's not still, or we wouldn't be in it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we would both be out.

Speaker B: Yeah, we'd both be out. Yeah. So I've, I've got a couple of different companies and, and, and one of them, uh, actually we're sitting in right now, uh, is the, uh, is the podcast studio here at the 76th floor of the Columbia Tower Club. Um, but, uh, uh, the other two, uh, Absco Solutions is an electronic life safety and security company that, uh, was started by my parents in 1976. Both my parents, uh, have now passed. Started by, uh, my parents and Jimmy Upjohn of The Upjohn Pharmaceutical family many, many years ago. Um, I came on board, uh, when the company was, uh, on the verge of failure, uh, at the age of 19, when I was given the choice of re. Uh, upping for the uw, uh, and my parents would sell their house or I could come make a go of a failing family business. So that was exciting. And then the other is SP Alert. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and, uh, yeah. And I'm the predominant owner of that business now. And then, um, uh, the other is a software as a service, ERP, SaaS, uh, model cloud, uh, based, uh, for, uh, electrical contractors.

Speaker A: Great.

Speaker B: So, yeah. Which was born out of, uh, out of absco, uh, Solutions.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I know we know each other a little bit, so maybe you alluded to it. So take us back to when you were 19 and a little bit more color around the choice of, uh. Obviously we know based on what you told us, it turned out okay, but, uh, it didn't sound like it was maybe. Was it your first choice or was it just the choice you made?

Speaker B: Oh, I don't even know if it was a choice. I was like, yeah, I mean, you know, when you're. When your father says, or, you know, we'll sell the family home or you can come make a go of the family business, that's not really a choice. Uh, you know, I was living at home, so, like. Okay. So what I just heard is I don't have a place to live and I don't know how I'm paying for college. So I don't know that, uh, I don't know that that was really much of a choice. And, you know, I didn't understand how to really run a business or how to lead anything. But I did understand math. I mean, I was thinking analytical geometrical calculus at the time. Uh, and, uh, you know, the company was negative $78,000 owner's equity and 3 to 2 payable receivables. I look at that now and I go, oh, wow. We, you know, the equivalent of like three quarters of a million dollars in debt and, you know, just another upside down disaster.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, it was. And you know, interest rates back then, it's like everybody today is like, oh, my gosh, interest rates are so high. It's like now interest rates back then, if you could borrow money, it was like 17, 18.

Speaker A: I was going to say it was probably at least in the teens somewhere.

Speaker B: I vaguely remember that it was in the teens.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: It was crazy. Um, my first meeting with a banker at 18 or at 19, 20 years old, was, uh, you know, to get a line of credit for $10,000. And uh, he put his arm around me, my shoulders and walked me out of the bank and said, I, you know, I can't loan you money. You're going to be out of business in the next 90, uh, days. And I was like, that's not an option. You know, my parents will lose their house. They, they've personally guaranteed everything. And it's like, I'm so sorry to hear that. Yeah, I was like, like four years later he was in our office soliciting our business. Yeah, yeah, I was probably the least magnanimous thing I've ever done. I walked him out of the office and I said, I'm not going to do business with you, but why don't you have your boss come by, maybe, maybe she and I can have a conversation. I knew her, um, uh, her name was Marilyn and I actually got along with her pretty well. So we eventually ended up doing business with the bank.

Speaker A: But uh, anyway, yeah, um, so maybe take us through that first four years or first four weeks or. What do you remember from just walking in and no, I mean no real experience and just trying to figure stuff out.

Speaker B: I remember getting Seattle University as our first customer. I remember figuring out that we needed campus environments where we had recurring work because our, I was our lead salesperson, our lead project manager, our general manager, our journeyman electrician. Like I was doing everything and uh, I didn't have time to go out and sell, so I needed a place that as long as I gave them a reasonable price, just would hand me work. And so I realized campus, like I couldn't go out and do residential because you had to go out and find another house and a new homeowner every time.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And so I needed campus environments. And so Clau was the first client and strangely enough a gentleman named Brion, who was my little league baseball coach was saying, oh Eric, yeah, I remember you, you're you know, great guy and uh, yeah, why don't you come do some work for us? And then we did some work and he's like, I really like the work you're doing and here's another project so that, you know, that probably actually saved the company. And Seattle Pacific University ended up being our second customer. And if it weren't for those two clients, we wouldn't have made it. And the nice thing was they were generous enough and kind enough to allow us to do the work and literally collect a check at the End of the week. Because we had to collect that check. When you talk about cash flow.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: We had to collect the check, deliver the check to our, or FedEx or UPS, read the check to our vendors to get the next lot of equipment released because we owed money to our vendors that was, you know, 60, 90 days past due, uh, for them to release the equipment to us so that we could continue to get the next week's worth of work, uh, to do.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it was crazy. And I remember, uh, at 21 I had acquired 10% of the company and then I borrowed, uh, $8,800 from my grandfather at 10% interest. People like, oh my gosh, your grandfather was making money off you. And it's like, no, he sold some oil shares that he was getting a 12% return on.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So he took a haircut and uh, and lent me some money and I bought my first house, was 60, $600 down. Uh, and I bought 25% of the company for 20$500 from somebody who thought they were getting out from under. Uh, little did they know that if you've signed for anything, you still owed the debt until it was cleared. And uh, I brought in, you know, my then best friend, uh, Dan Norton from when I was young, uh, from, you know, junior high best friend, uh, and said look, if we get to $0 owner's equity, I'll give you 10% of the company. But here's the deal. We're going to be working on salary. We're going to be working as many hours as we have to to turn this thing around. And uh, and we're probably going to be making less than minimum wage. When everything's said and done, it was like, well, I don't have anything better to do and maybe we can save your parents house and why not? And took us six years to get to $0 owner's equity. We started making money every year but, you know, took six years to get things turned around and, and then eventually we put a buyout, a majority share buyout agreement in place with my parents and then uh, bought everything out. So.

Speaker A: Mm.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean I think I, we've, we know other entrepreneurs who have the hustle that might have just went and sold residential and they probably, those people probably would have made it work in that way, you know, in a different way. Yeah, but what do you think it was that you could see that the campus was such a better opportunity? I mean, in hindsight when you explain it, of course it makes perfect sense, but all the other, uh, alarm companies out there were not, you know, they're all banging on individual doors. Right. So what, what do you think you were seeing differently? Was it. Can you speak to that?

Speaker B: I, you know, I think if you're, if you're not starting in a hole, the, if you're not starting in a hole, the residential could obviously like, you know, if you got a couple of bucks in the bank and you can afford to float some things and you've got credit with your vendors, the residential thing absolutely could work. And a lot of companies did really well with that and built up good recurring revenue and all that. That was not an option. I needed to know that we had good cash flow terms with our clients. Uh, mhm. That I didn't have to negotiate each and every time.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I was just trying to see. And I think it might be. It's just one of those examples of sort of leaning into what's there and really designing into what it is as opposed to. Well, I think this is the answer that we want or more like what do we really have to have? And sometimes less options ends up being better.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean it's still, you still got to pull it off. Don't get me wrong.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And it really focuses the mind. Right. Like, okay, ah, this is what we're going to do and we're going to get really good at it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I am, uh, I similar but different. But I've had to unwalk an ugly balance sheet before. So I understand the long walk that can be. How did you deal with that first four to six years where you're obviously having success, it's cash positive, you're profitable, but you're sinking everything back in to try to fix it. So how did you sort of sort that out with the uh. It's not two separate lives, but a little bit. It's sort of like two separate lives. Right. So what was, what was that like? Because I think that's one of those entrepreneurial journeys that doesn't get a lot of. There's a handful of people that just hit a series of home runs. But my story has some, some strikeout streaks in it. So, you know, how did you deal with that? That's another piece of adversity that is,

Speaker B: uh, you know, I mean there were 100, 100. I think our longest week, uh, I think we had 120 hour week, which is really hard to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really hard to do. There wasn't a lot of sleep that Week. Uh, but we had a bunch of bank, uh, of America banks that we were having to get online in a short period of time. And we just, I mean, we were just working around the clock, uh, to, to get it done and, and to hit deadlines and, and we couldn't afford to bring additional people on, and it was just nuts. I mean, so, you know, the things that, uh, the things that I could do in my youth, I certainly wouldn't even attempt to do now.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: So some of it was just crazy. Uh, and I, you know, the, the other aspect, when you say it wasn't all, it wasn't all cash flow positive. It wasn't. And there were some, you know, I, I, there are those 50, 50, uh, thousand dollars MBA moments where it was like, oh, well, that was a learning experience. Yay. Uh, like, you know, it's funny when you can go to school and learn some good lessons, and then you can just go to work and learn some good lessons. And, and I've definitely had those, uh, really big ticket item moments where it's like, oh, well, wow, I can't believe we just spent that money on that. Uh, that was a fascinating experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm absolutely convinced that for most of us, there are some truly brilliant people out there. I don't have to worry about being one of them. But, uh, that can really compress time. But I think there's just a certain amount of heavy lifting to get your own understanding and your own wisdom. And so you can go to school and it costs you some money, but it costs you some time. Or you can start your own business and it takes a lot less time. It just costs you more money.

Speaker B: Right, Exactly.

Speaker A: It's the same, it's the same, it's the same equation. It's just, which way do you want to go? Right. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And sometimes, you know, yeah. And sometimes we can go back to school or we can join the entrepreneurs organization. Like, EO has definitely compressed time for me, 100%. Thank the Lord that came along because, uh, and you know, funny enough, we're sitting here at the Columbia Tower Club, kind of bring things full circle. I got recruited by Phil Erickson and Michael Miller and, uh, uh, Mark Blumenthal to join EO downstairs, uh, on 75 here at the Columbia Tower Club. Uh, December of 97. Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: So maybe we can jump into that a little bit and tell us a little bit about what that was like in the early days. And I will tell you, I mean, I joined in 2006, which is almost a Full decade after you. And when I joined, it was seemingly still pretty much a secret. And I will say now, you know, 20 years later, it does seem like a lot more. I mean, like, globally, it's, it's. I mean, it's definitely known. I, uh, people don't like, give me the dog. You know, the dog earlobe and stuff. So tell us about what it was like.

Speaker B: But in 2006, people look at you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I was like, what, join what, what is the name of the cult you joined?

Speaker A: Totally. Yeah.

Speaker B: 100%. No, it's a business organization. Yeah, 97, uh, you know, got invited to come up here and. Well, let me see this.

Speaker A: Well, let's do this too. So anchor. So when. I don't think we got this. So you were 19, but not to, not to pry, but what year was that, Eric?

Speaker B: Okay, so let me age my.

Speaker A: For the math fans out there.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, 1987 for those of you who are able to do math.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: Yeah, 1987 is, uh, June of 1987, when, um, when I got the phone call from my dad, freshman at the University of Washington.

Speaker A: So. So 10 years later, a decade into

Speaker B: the journey where we finally hit the million dollar mark.

Speaker A: Uh-huh. Yeah. But, but you know, a million dollars in 97. Yeah. Was a lot, I mean, a lot

Speaker B: more than it is today.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and especially the way that you're slugging it out too. Like, I mean there's. We know people that are. Their business models are such. They're just like, that's a rounding error. Right. So like for, for what you were doing in 97, that was, that was a big deal. It's a big deal. It's probably a big deal anytime, but it's definitely a big deal back then.

Speaker B: Uh, it, it felt like an achievement back then. Uh, and if it felt nice to not owe the world everything, uh, and to know that my parents were a lot more stable, um, by then, um, and yet everybody and their brother is like, you want to join what? And you want to spend how much money on what and where are you doing this? And is like, because I don't have the skill set to take this organization to the next level, uh, and I need to develop those skills. Like, you know, I didn't finish my, uh, my college career and I'd kind of like to invest in myself enough to know that I can grow this organization.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So yeah, it was interesting. So, yeah, first and foremost, talk about imposter syndrome. I get on the elevator, uh, now I will Say this back up a couple of years. You know, actually several years in 97. Ish. I was in this building while I was in construction. Maybe it was 96 it was in this building. Or, excuse me, 87. 86 it was in this building. Well, it was under construction. My then journeyman, M. Brought me up here, put a hard hat on me, you know, brought me up here as if we were on the crew.

Speaker A: Sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And we came up to like the 60 something floor when it was still open and there was just cable and plastic. It's like, oh, my God, this is amazing. What a great view. Uh, but then I get on the elevator and I press the members only button. And all I could think is, they're going to kick me out of here as soon as I get off the elevator. Uh, and so it was one of those moments where it was total imposter syndrome. But I get off the elevator and lo and behold, go to the meeting and hear about this amazing organization, the Young Entrepreneurs Organization, and hear what it's about and, uh, what everybody does. And it probably took another three, four years before I really, truly understood the value and benefit. Uh, even though I became a member and a participant, uh, I loved, uh, Phil and Mark's sales pitch when they came out. We think you're going to make an amazing member. So much so that we'd like you to be the treasurer on the board this next summer. Little did I know There were only 30 members in the entire organization for Seattle, and they just needed somebody to serve as the treasurer.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But there's something to be said. So in other organizations I've been. And also we try to do this at work too. When someone steps forward and joins, it's super important to give them something to do.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I used to tell people in this other. Some of the other stuff we've done, the nonprofit side, I'm like, if you have to give them your job for a little while, just like, they just got here. Like, they, they're not going to be more passionate than this if we don't stoke that fire.

Speaker B: So, yeah, definitely worth doing. M. Yeah. Back then though, it was, you know, people talk about global. Uh, global was like, I don't know, 4050 members in Mexico, several hundred in Canada, because Canada had grown very quickly. Uh, and then maybe 40, 50 members in, you know, New Zealand, Australia and Asia. Right. Nobody in Europe. Like, literally nobody in Europe.

Speaker A: That's interesting.

Speaker B: Nobody.

Speaker A: Any. Any insight on that, you think, or just, just.

Speaker B: It just didn't well, it, you know, the, the Bill, uh, Trimble. The Trimble Award. Bill is out of Vancouver B.C. and Bill and Peter Thomas are the people who really went around and got chapters off the ground. Seattle being one of the really early chapters. And uh, because they literally went down the west coast. And then, you know, from that, uh, Vancouver and Seattle and San Francisco etc. People went to Asia, got Asia chapters, got, got some members, not really chapters early. Some people in Mexico and it kind of went across the.

Speaker A: That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. And so much has gone the other way historically. Or it came from Europe.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And beach to hit on the East Coast.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: That's. I, I don't think I ever knew that. That's interesting. Uh, it's super interesting. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. So it's, you know, I, when I joined there were 800 some odd members globally. Put big quotes around that and, and

Speaker A: just to give some people some perspective. So roughly how many chapters do you think? I know we're 20,000 something members. Right. But how many chapters now?

Speaker B: Oh, I, I don't know.

Speaker A: Your guess has to be better than mine. But it's 20 something thousand members now.

Speaker B: A couple hundred chapters, you know, and in 90 or so countries. Yeah, it's pretty amazing actually. The global reach is, you know, and EO at this point is probably the best travel agency in the world.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: I love traveling with the. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, a former. Well, one of our chapter mates, uh, served as president and so he met some folks down from Brazil and then they headed up here and we got to host them. Um, uh, or I guess it was last year at this point. But just absolutely amazing to be able to meet 35 business people from Brazil that were just where you want to come see a different place and try to experience, you know, the local business and local environment. And they're just, you know, incredible people. And I know that's a lot of your story.

Speaker B: You've been all five, uh, all five Brazil chapters were here. Uh, and then, uh, and then they hosted the, the EO Rio, uh, university, which was absolutely unbelievable. The learning was amazing. Uh, some great speakers on AI, some great speakers on, uh, the way the brain works. Great speakers on relationships. Great. We got to tour, uh, Americana, the soccer. I got to take a shot on uh, one of the Americana practice goalies.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: That was awesome. Yeah, just absolutely. And they were such great hosts.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, we're right on Copacabana, uh, beach at the Fairmont.

Speaker A: That's so cool.

Speaker B: Absolutely amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you. So you joined EO they got you in on the board right away, and then that's all you did, and then you never served again.

Speaker B: So I didn't do anything after that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So maybe. And it's not so much I want to, like, highlight from a. Let's brag about what Eric did in service to eo, but maybe like what you gave and then what you got out of it personally, just in terms of the enrichment and all of that. Because we've talked offline about this before, about how much that you've gotten out of that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, you know, it's grossly inconvenient. I mean, it sounds on the outside there's some fun that happens, but you still have a business to run. You still have. You still have a life. You still have these other things, and it's grossly inconvenient on some level. Right. And then you got to deal with other knuckleheads like me and other members and. Yeah.

Speaker B: So, you know, it's funny. I think there are times that, uh, the people around me would say that I didn't do both. Well, right.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: There's times that. There are times that I think, um, my family or my management team would say that I gave too much to eo, and at the same time, I think that I would not have grown the organization to the level that, um, or either organization had I not been doing what I was doing any. Um, so I did two tours on the Global Board, uh, eventually, um, with EO and I. I chaired. I chaired the Yeo Seattle University, first and foremost, and then served as a program chair, and then served on the Global Board and served on the Global Board again. And then eventually, I, uh, got to start the Global Leadership Academy, which was, um, a privilege. Um, got to recruit Warren Rustand to, uh, be the dean of the faculty for the program. And George Gann and Warren have continued to grow that program, uh, globally to the regional. The RLA's, the regional leadership Academies and all that. And, uh, I think it's made a huge impact on leaders around the world, which has been wonderful. Um, so I'm proud of the legacy that that has, uh, created. I've done a lot of strategy summits and things of that nature. So. But at this point, I'm. I'm not doing anything. I've really pulled back on all of my service. You know, I've done a lot of things in Seattle as well. Seattle Rotary and, you know, worked up the VP of Programs, uh, in Seattle 4 and helped start the Seattle Fire foundation as the treasurer and just, I've done a number of things but at this point it's, I'm kind of at that point in my career where I'm like, okay, I'm going to take the next few years and just kind of settle down and.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Just focus on the businesses.

Speaker A: Yeah. So. And it's a lot that you've done in any one of those. But if you were going to say what are, what are some of the similarities that you saw in terms of the things that you got to sort of. One of the things that I feel like work does just in general and certainly nonprofit work or service work does is it gives me an opportunity to practice the person that I want to become. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what, what were some of the lessons that you got to learn? And it's, the bullets are real. Like, I mean people care and like there's, you know, there's stuff on the line. I want to make it sound like that, but it's not maybe necessarily it's different than if it's with our uh, family or something like that. Right. So what we're doing, what were some of the things any golden nuggets that you took away from any of the service?

Speaker B: I think learning to truly listen to people and be present in the moment to, and I, and, and let me qualify this. There are times I let myself down. There are times I missed the mark.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Even now. So I don't want this to sound like, you know, hey, I got it all figured out or wow, I'm, I, you know, after X number of years I've suddenly gotten to the point that I'm, you know, I've reached some level of perfection. That would be such a falsehood. I think I'm, I think when I was young I was prone to yelling at people and I was a really terrible leader. I mean, I mean I was really not a good leader. I let out a fear not inspiration and not uh, and not direction and not valueless alignment and not mission alignment. I let out a force of will and you're going to do what I told you because I pay you. That's not a great way to lead. Um, and so it really took, you know, it really, you know, I, I, I got my mentor Torstein because of EO and, and when he came alongside me, you know, one of the things he really focused on is what is the company's core values? What are your core values?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And, and really reinforce what are your core values. And so there's a lot of the, Are you listening to the people in your life, do you understand what their goals and desires are? Um, I just had a really deep conversation with one of my team members where he called me and he asked, are you okay if I do this thing on Saturdays? That's a paid gig. That's. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. I'm not going to be the reason why you don't do that. But I got to ask you, what is the thing you're trying to feed by doing that, and how is that going to impact your family? And before you say yes to it, just realize you're saying no to something else. And are you okay with not being at your kid's little league game to be able to go do that? Right. And those are the questions that, when I was his age, I wasn't necessarily asking m. Of myself.

Speaker A: Sure, sure.

Speaker B: Uh, so I think there are some things. I'm a little bit older, a little bit wiser than I was then, and I. You know, so I guess I'm trying to. These days, I'm trying to pass some of that along to the people around me that I don't know that I think. I think we get some of that out of the give and take of being in those volunteer moments, of being around those people that. That I. I don't. I. I would. I, uh, will say this. I don't think I would have ever been exposed to the. I would never have met Bill Gates Senior. I would never have met, uh, Phil Smart if not for Seattle Rotary. M. Right. I would have never met Torstein or Warren Rustan. But for serving at the global level in eo, I. I would have never met my fellow board members, uh, but for serving at the global level. And, uh, those are some of the most cherished relationships I have in my life. And Jesus de la Garza, you know, he. And I text with some regularity, and he's my. You know, he's my brother. M. Love the guy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, one of the things that. So I. I joined because I woke up one day, and it's basically the coolest person in my life. Right, Right.

Speaker B: I mean, what a terrible place to be.

Speaker A: No, and in fairness, that wasn't really quite the story. But. But. But my M.O. is like, I'm in the middle of the pack, working my way, and I just got way too close to the front.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I was like, I need to find a different pack. And I, uh, definitely found that in EO and some other places. And, uh, by the grace of the boss I don't really want to be anybody else. I mean, but there's. I have met countless people in EO and other places where I'm like, oh, there's some attributes that I'd like to aspire to. Probably look a little different if I try to put them into play. But I didn't even know some of that stuff existed, you know, Like, I didn't, I didn't even know that you could do some of these things. Right. It's just like I had to. The skill set or the lack of skill that I had to be able to just produce the results I produced, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. And when you think about your story, about where it came, where you came from and all that, it's not. I mean, I'm not trying to give you a free pass. And I. My story isn't too different from yours either. We've got to be responsible for what we've done. But it also makes a little bit of sense based on our age. And I just think back. So I have 8 and 10 year old boys and they play hockey. And I'm gonna keep this reasonably generic cause I don't want to take anybody down accidentally. But there's one sort of coach in the area that he's uh, your. He's actually your age. He's right. And you're older than me and he's old school and you know, and I joke with him all the time. I'm like, you would have been the nicest coach I ever played for.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: As an eight year old kid. Like the nicest coach. Cause it's just so, so different. Doesn't make it right. It just makes it wildly, wildly different. I didn't much like leading that way. You know what I mean? If I could have gotten away with it and got a good night's sleep, I would have happily done it. My problem was I thought I was an asshole. And I didn't like being an asshole.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? I was like, shit, I gotta learn how to. A different way to do this because I just, I'm gonna. I'm not making enough money not to sleep. You know what I mean? There's not enough money on the table. Right.

Speaker B: Seriously. And to be able to look myself in the mirror.

Speaker A: Totally. Yeah.

Speaker B: At the end of the day. And you know, it's funny because people like, you know, you can make more money if you. Yeah, no, I'm good. Uh, I'm good. I like to be able to look myself in the mirror. I like to be Able to sleep. I like to, you know, like, I'm. I'm good.

Speaker A: Yep, yep.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: So we talked a little bit, a little bit about EO mentioned early on in, in the business. And obviously you still have it, so spoiler alert. Looks like it turned out at least reasonably well. Um, you did reference that you sort of, uh, the, the uh, SaaS business emerge from that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So maybe tell us a little bit about how Seattle use Seattle specific grow up apps go. And then to the point where all of a sudden, hey, we have to start another entity here. We've got a different offering maybe.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, 2000 and. Well, 2000 I went to the birthing a giants program. Bert Harnish was still leading it back then. Uh, it's, uh, the, what is it? The emp, the entrepreneurial Master's program today. Yeah, uh, back then it was the birthing of giants.

Speaker A: Uh, they switched schools too, didn't they?

Speaker B: No, it's still at mit.

Speaker A: Oh, is it? Okay. They switched schools. I was like, they switched the name. They switched schools.

Speaker B: They did switch the name because Inc. Uh, magazine had the right, the naming rights. And there was a. Yeah, there was a thing. So. But it is still at mit. There is still a partnership with mit. It's still at Endicott House. Uh, and mit and great program. Absolutely. Any entrepreneur who can get into it, absolutely worth doing, uh, three year multi, uh, three year, like four or five days a, uh, year, uh, for three years. Just a phenomenal program. And um, I want to say it was the second year of the program. Vern asked the question, what is the industry problem? That if you spent a million dollars? Because again, back then, a million dollars, actually a real su money. Now anything that you know, like, oh, ah, a million dollars is a B. If it's not a B, like what's the point? But back then a million dollars actually meant something. Um, what is that industry problem that if you spent a million dollars and you solved it, it would be a billion dollar solution? Now it's like, well, if it's not a trillion dollar solution, what is the point? Um, and all I could think was, you know, like, hey, actually I thought a lot of things. A, I don't have a spare million to spend right now.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I could probably afford 50 to 100,000 a year for the next decade. Uh, and our industry does not have any unified information system and we're the most grossly under automated industry in the world. It's like construction is the most behind the times thing there is. And so, um, Brought a couple of people together and started working on something just for us. Actually really didn't care about the rest of the industry that much as much as I wanted to solve some problems for us. And in the first year we, we solved a couple of problems and actually were able to save about $140,000 a year just in, uh, salary. It was, it was actually pretty impressive. So it was like, oh, apparently I can spend $150,000 a year now.

Speaker A: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker B: So that was kind of cool. And so we started doing that and uh, and eventually started growing that. And then um, 2016 we went out and actually found a customer and, and realized, oh, we build it just for us. We need to do a bunch of stuff to make it something we could actually take the market, including making it cloud based and a bunch of other things. And then went out and raised a couple of dollars and really took it to market.

Speaker A: So how, how was, uh, how with, I mean, obviously share at whatever level that you want to. And I'm not digging for anything in particular, but how is that in raising money and having that relationship with investors? Because I think based up to this point, you know, prior to that point, you're really more answering to yourself and to the checkbook balance. Different. Better.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, definitely different. Uh, yeah, I think having investors isn't so bad when it's all still privately held and it's not, you know, it's not, we're not taking venture capital. It's all angel and, and they're, you know, they're all super. My, uh, minority. Granted, minority shareholders can still create challenges if they choose to, but they all understand where we're at and they all understand what we're doing and you know, it's been good.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: It's been decent.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: We're making progress and yeah, we're having fun with it.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Cool. Yeah.

Speaker B: So, yeah, hadn't been bad.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, I think, um, it's one of those where I'm not sure everyone always understands, you know, they're like, oh, I'm gonna go round up some money. First of all, it's a little harder to round up some money than you think.

Speaker B: It's a lot harder to round up.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then, and then you're in relationship with them and they really pay attention because all they have is money and time to look over your shoulder what you're doing, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, everybody, which is all

Speaker A: fair by the way.

Speaker B: Like, I don't everybody Wants a return on their money.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty reasonable.

Speaker B: It's totally reasonable.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's like we are in relationship now. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yes. Believe it or not.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: I'd actually like my core capital back at some point.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, I was fortunate. I had a business partner, um, for a little while, and it was much more of a sort of side hobby, and it was a rounding error in his overall portfolio and all that. But he was a brilliant, brilliant guy. And I actually involved him, I think, way more than he wanted to be involved. He was back east. I was on the phone with him all the time because, a. I knew that if he took the call, I would get his attention and I would get his thinking and he would definitely push back. Not in a bad way, but just in a way to sort of test my. My thinking and all that. And I think it was. I thought, you know, gosh, I would. I would really, really, really want to have a board like this, but I don't know that I. Eventually, um, he was much older, and he's getting older at a place where I was like, hey, we have to. I love your family, but I don't want to be. You know, we had been partners for 15 years or something. Like, we can't. Can't backfill these conversations with somebody else. But I thought, gosh, it was really, really valuable to have somebody with that much experience who understood the business, that cared, you know, that. All that. And, uh. Um. But. But I'm not sure that that's the typical, quote unquote, business partner investor relationship. You know, I mean, I think. Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it's funny you say that, Tor. My mentor actually is on the board of both companies, both FCP and apsco, and he will kick me in the butt when I need it. He's a mentor. He's a dear friend. He and his wife are both really dear friends. Um, I mentioned before this that I'm going to be moving to Austin, uh, later this year. Mona actually picked my house out for me.

Speaker A: Oh, geez, that's great.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's across the street and three doors down.

Speaker A: Well, there you go.

Speaker B: Yeah. Funny enough, I warned them that they may find me sitting on their back porch waiting for them to get up. And Mona said, no problem. I'll make coffee and bring out, uh, some fresh croissants. So it's like, I can't ask for anything more.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, but to your point, uh, you know, he's a long time ypo, uh, gold member, served on the board run multiple events around the world. Started, uh, the deal exchange. Like, the dudes, you know, he ran the largest shipyard on the west coast, uh, owned the largest ship here on the west coast. You guys are like, he's. He's brilliant, and he will kick my butt when I need it. He will, uh. He will put, um, ointment, uh, on my. He will salve my wounds when I need it. Yeah, yeah, he's, uh. Yeah, he's one of those people.

Speaker A: Yeah. So what, you know, the. If I was going to pull out a little bit of what I hear in your story as we talk about it today is it's open and receptive, uh, to learning.

Speaker B: Do you think we have to be always? I mean, the day we stop learning, like, what's the point? Well, I lay down and die, Right?

Speaker A: I'm with you on that, but I don't know that we have to, because I certainly have met some people that seem like it doesn't. Like they don't have to, uh.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't understand that. I, uh, really don't understand it. I have this document called Me Work M. It's like every test you could possibly take. And, uh, it's just this compilation of the disc profile and the, uh, PSIU and culture index and everything else. I mean, everything under the sun. Myers, Briggs and everything else. And it's just an opportunity for me to understand me as well as I possibly can and figure out where I can be a slightly better human being. Uh, it's not to say that I hit the mark, and it's not to say I'm as disciplined as I need to be. And, you know, like, if I were as disciplined as I need to be, I'd be 40 pounds lighter. Let me just say that right now I'd be in better physical condition. Uh, but I'm working on that, too. So, you know, like, there you go. But I think when we. When we give up on learning and we give up on growing, like, you know, we become stagnant, and stagnant sucks. It's not fun. There's so many more parts of the world I want to see, and so many cultures I want to understand and. And so many more friends to make. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, well, I've been sharing this one for a long time, and I believe it's still true. Unfortunately. I'm like, hey, this is the best version of me there's ever been. Just be happy you didn't know me 20 years ago.

Speaker B: Amen.

Speaker A: I mean, I'd like to think I still Got a little bit more up in my game. You know what I mean? Uh, I'm m definitely, I'm with you. I don't think I've even remotely. I got way more to learn, but I'm hopeful that that's still a possibility. You know what I mean? Like, it's not.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I watched Tour and I, and I know that there's things that he's never going to do the way he did. Like, you know, he was a competitive, ah, downhill skier. He's not going to do that again. But in his 80s he was skiing with Ted, uh, Lit. Ted Liggety.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I'm like, I just. Look at that. I go, that's nuts.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean that's crazy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, I'm never gonna do that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I would like to know that I am growing the way he is. Like, he just started running and you know, a medical company. I'm like, for, what the hell, dude? What are you doing? But he's having a blast. Uh, and I'm just like, I love you, man. You're, you're, you're my inspiration. You're, you know, like, I hope to be like you when I grow up.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah. All right, well, I want to be respectful of our time. So, um, maybe a couple little wrap up questions. Um, so if, if, uh, and none of these are put you on the spot. So if there's something there, great. But if not we'll, we'll just cut it to the floor. But um, maybe. But some of these I really do like as good as questions because when people drop the bombs, they drop them. So best piece of advice that you've ever received or given.

Speaker B: Wow. Uh, best piece. Understand the dreams and aspirations of the people you care most about.

Speaker A: Wow, that's good. And just this is really for my own ego more than Eric's. But, um, I've been on some podcasts where they give you the questions and Eric did not get these questions, just so you know. So this is, this is just him riffing off the top. So worst piece of advice that you've either given or received.

Speaker B: Yeah, we should go drinking at 3

Speaker A: in the morning or play play poker with a guy whose initials are JW or AL or a whole bunch of other

Speaker B: actually.

Speaker A: Uh, and maybe drink before and after that.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, yeah, actually anything after midnight is probably not a good idea.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker B: Anyway.

Speaker A: All right, so then what? Uh, and again, not priming for anything. If there's something that are great. But what challenge are you excited to be taking on right now.

Speaker B: You know, I am in the process of retooling. Um, I just took over the COO role in AppsCo and it sounds crazy because I haven't been in that. I haven't been in that role ever actually. But I'm having a lot of fun with it. Uh, there's a lot of things that I am, that I am retooling the way I want it.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And everybody's like, oh my gosh, that's a great idea. Why, why didn't we do that before? Like we're a 40 some odd year old company. And it was like, that's brilliant. And, and it's not that it's stroking my ego. It's like, it's like, yeah, this just is so much more simple and so much more straightforward. And like the team members are like, oh, yeah, mhm. This is cleaner. We should do it that way soon.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: That part's rewarding to make, to make people's lives easier.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And better. And to serve our customers better is just, it's just fun. It's cool.

Speaker A: Great. So anyway, wins along those lines. You want to share or that you can share? I don't want to pry.

Speaker B: Oh, I, you know, I, it's little things. It's finding a report that just by adding some color to it, there's, you know, it's funny, uh, year, a year and a half ago, I was sitting next to somebody in a play and he was telling me about what he's doing at college. He's, he's in the data visualization piece. And EO had just had the president of the Seahawks showing us all of their data visualization stuff. Right. Uh, Chuck Arnold, like how they look at ticket prices that are being sold in the secondary market. And I was like, oh my God, that's amazing stuff. And uh, this young man's telling me about how they're doing data visualization. I'm like, oh, you know, I've got two companies and one of them is a software company and I'm really interested in that. Would you like to, you know, have you thought about doing an internship with a software? He's like, I'd love to do that. Like, great. Well, you know, I'm willing to pay for it out of my pocket just to see what we might do.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And he's like, oh, that'd be amazing. So brought him in. Everybody's looking at me like, oh, uh, great. Eric's, Eric's. Eric's a lunatic.

Speaker A: Like, Eric went to some seminar and now came back with a vision bomb. Yeah, totally. I've done that.

Speaker B: Well, which is why I'm paying for it out of my own pocket. I didn't want to, I didn't want anybody to go, like Eric's wasting investor money or Eric's deviating from absco's core mission or whatever. I just didn't want to listen to it. Um, and lo and behold, we created this thing that is this graphic pie chart that has completely transformed the way we're managing labor inside of AppsCo, but it's also a core offering inside of FCP. It's. Holy smokes, this is freaking amazing.

Speaker A: Well, and I think maybe what this is and ah, something that, that maybe we both share is I don't, I don't actually care how many zeros are behind the win. You know what I mean? Like, I just, I mean, it's nice when there's a lot, but I just like it when we just get better. You know what I mean? Like, and that's, that's what I heard in that story, which is great. That's, uh, yeah, awesome. If you were going to leave a message for either the listeners or just for future entrepreneurs or humans or whatever, any message that you'd want to pass on.

Speaker B: Well, if it was for future, uh, entrepreneurs, it would be join eo. You can't make a better decision and find a good forum, uh, even if it isn't on your first try. Especially if it's not on your first try.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think I know the, at least a portion of the answer as to why. But for someone who isn't more familiar with eo, why would you say that?

Speaker B: You know, we're all going to go through some real struggles, uh, and the, and having the opportunity to share our lives with other entrepreneurs who are also going through, you know, share experiences with other entrepreneurs and deal with what is going on in life is invaluable. Uh, and knowing that we're not alone, I mean, it's funny because a lot of EO members are like, oh my God, I thought I, I thought I was the only one. I thought I was unique. I thought I was crazy. I thought I was fill in the blank none of my other friends understood.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Right. And then all of a sudden you find out, oh, no, I'm not, I'm not only not alone, I'm not unique, but there's a whole world, there's 20,000 people around the world and so many more once I understand that entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs.

Speaker A: Sure, yeah. No, that's great. Yeah. And then I'll also just put the general plug in there too that I got all that. And then I also got uh, bonus in terms of. I saw demonstrations of what different characteristics and attributes and just all sorts of things to aspire from. And actually very few when you consider uh, how large the organization is and some of the. I mean they let me in, uh, that uh. Very few sort of negative quality members.

Speaker B: So quit denigrate self. Denigration is not necessary.

Speaker A: Uh, but actually very few examples of what not to do. But you know, I don't want to get too deep into it, but just some. I think not only to be able to share experience and have a sense of camaraderie, but also to help expose blind spots of your own potential. That at least for me personally, I just. I don't. I would have had unlocked someplace else. I have complete confidence that I would not have unlocked it.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, no, that's. That is absolutely true. That uh, that ability to realize, uh. You know, Warren had this statement. Our. One of our missions in life should be to see people not for who they are right now, but who they can become. And. And EO, I think helps us to see ourselves not for who we are, but who we can become.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's very well said and it's not surprising that it was said by you and Warren.

Speaker B: You know, R and D. One of my favorite things about a. Yeah. Rip off and deploy.

Speaker A: Okay, so just while we're doing the love fest on Warren. So he. He absolutely killed, uh. When I say he killed me, I was like, I don't know. There was 60, 80 people. It was a Seattle event that he was speaking at. So however many people were there, he killed me. And I fell in love with him all at the same moment. I didn't like actually know who he was, but uh, you know, and he was giving his talk and I was already. I was already hook, line and sinker. But like the absolute nail in the coffin. He's just like, look, if you're working 68 hours of 60, 80 hours a week, you're just not that good.

Speaker B: Right, Right.

Speaker A: It's just like, dude, that's my whole mo. What are you talking about?

Speaker B: Right? Quantity is not quality.

Speaker A: Yeah. He's just like, you're just not that good. He's like, maybe work on getting better. I was just like you. If you weren't so right, I would be really mad.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. No, he's ah. Just incredible human. So much like that. Also, seeing the potential that people can become is also falls into the lexicon of other things that he throws out there. So. Awesome. Well, Eric, uh, we could go on longer and maybe we will do a second episode if you're up for it. But I really enjoyed our time today. Thank you so much for it's truly

Speaker B: a pleasure to spend time with you. Love and adore you, man.

Speaker A: Yeah, you too.

Speaker B: Good to be here all.

Speaker A: Uh, right. Take care.

Speaker B: You too.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Beats Working Winning

Speaker B: the game of work.

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Speaker B: subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, clarity isn't something you find, it's something you practice and getting paid to practice. Life Beats working to get paid.