Getting Out of Your Own Way: Delegation and Finding Your Zone of Genius with Anna Brambilla

Gary Marra: Next on your Customer, your Success, Ana Brambilla.

Ana Brambilla: And literally when I found my first virtual assistant, I reclaimed about 10 to 15 hours per week. Loved what I was doing again. And because of that, I doubled and then ultimately tripled my revenue.

Gary Marra: Welcome to your Customer, your Success, the Marist CX Hub podcast, bringing you insights from innovators who are excelling in their fields. I'm your host, Gary Mara, and each episode we dive into the strategies and mindsets that drive customer centric success. Our guests share their journeys, revealing the secrets behind their achievements, with a special focus on creating great experiences. Whether you're a business leader, solopreneur, or simply someone striving for excellence, you'll find actionable advice to elevate your strategy, get ready to learn a lot, have some fun, and transform your path to success. Hi everyone and welcome back to youo Customer, your Success. My guest today is Ana Brambilla. Ana is a multi company founder and the CEO of Virtually Aligned, where she works with founders and entrepreneurs who want to build the kind of support structure that allows them to focus on the work only they can do. Before this, she spent nearly 25 years in career transition, recruiting, coaching and franchise leadership, including building a successful franchise coaching practice. That experience gave her a ground level view of why smart, capable founders keep doing the work they should have handed off long ago. Today, she helps founders work through a leadership transition that is harder than it sounds. Learning to get out of the way of their own growth. Ana, uh, welcome to the show.

Ana Brambilla: Thank you so much, Gary. It's great to be here.

Gary Marra: Yeah, it's great to have you here today. This is quite an interesting topic and it's something we've touched on a little in past episodes this year. So I think this is taking a point, uh, and drilling down on it. So it's going to be an exciting episode. And so let's get right to it. You spent almost 25 years helping professionals make career transitions and business decisions. And, uh, at some point you realize you're facing the same kind of transition inside your own company. Uh, so when did you realize that the work you needed to hand off, you were holding it onto it yourself?

Ana Brambilla: Well, it's an interesting story. I realized that actually pretty early into my work as a franchise business owner, helping people explore franchisings, franchise coaching, in a sense, um, and I realized what I loved doing, but only I could do, was the connection and the conversations with the clients and the relationship building. Only I could do that. Anybody else could do the email management, the, um, the updating the CRM, the, you know, all of the administrative stuff, following up, you know, uh, checking on clients, what was going on, uh, doing all the various administrative side of things. And what I realized was that I was enjoying it less and less and less. I was enjoying the entire work less and less because I was doing things that didn't light me up. Frankly, I wasn't very good at. You know, that's the other thing that people forget. Most people start a business and all of my clients I work with, purpose driven entrepreneurs, founders, solopreneurs, and most people start their business to do something to make a difference in the world. They don't start it to do admin, but yet they get into that habit. And literally when I found my first virtual assistant, I reclaimed about 10 to 15 hours per week. Loved what I was doing again. And because of that, I doubled and then ultimately tripled my revenue. So about a year ago, it became clear it was time for me to leave that franchise that I was working on and focus on other things. Let me, let me spread the gospel about, uh, virtual assistants and helping them figure and helping founders fall in love with their business again and, uh, make a lot more money and be a lot happier.

Gary Marra: And here you are. So that, yeah, that's interesting. So just that 10 to 15 hours a week you reclaimed. What changed about how you operated as a leader? What happened with those hours you got back? What, how did your role change? How did your approach change?

Ana Brambilla: It changed in a lot of different ways. I worked, uh, first of all, I was able to do the things that lit me up because what was happening was the admin was piling up and there's more and more and more of it. And it was taking more and more time and I had to drag myself to get it done. And that was taking time away from my family, that was taking time away from doing more business development. It was taking time away from connecting with clients. Um, and so when you're doing things you don't love to do, it takes longer and longer. At least that's my experience. I imagine that's true for a lot of people. Um, and so it really became important for me then to, to do what I was meant to do. And so it did a lot of different things. I, I spent that time with my family, which made me happier and made me less resentful to my business. And then I also spent time doing more business development and connecting. I had all of a sudden more time to spend with clients. And the more time you spend with clients, the more Business. You know, I'm a member of a women's networking organization, and the founder, who's this real powerhouse of woman, she says the more you shake, the more you make, the more relationships and people that you touch, the more money you make.

Gary Marra: Yeah. So that's true. So you describe it as, um, robbing the world of their zone of genius. Right. So tell us a little bit more about the zone, the zone of genius, and what you see with the work that you do with founders today. What does it look like for them and what kind of work are they still holding on to that maybe should belong to someone else?

Ana Brambilla: The zone of genius is the. And we all know, hopefully Guy Maserati. Not Maserati. Um, Guy. Oh, goodness. A. Ah, Gay Hendrix. There we go. I, um, confusing my people, uh, Gay Hendricks came up with the term the zone of genius, which is that thing that when you are so good at what you do, it just comes naturally, and you love what you do. Um, and I love that concept. We all, when most of people started, as I mentioned, you did it to make a difference in the world and to really play to your strengths. Whether that's coaching or that's consulting or that sales or whatever it is. You started your business to make a difference. Now, not everybody's that way. I understand, but I work only with people who, uh, are purpose driven, who started their business for a real reason. Um, and what happens is that those are things that are intangible, that you. Only you can do. They're intrinsic to who you are. You put on this earth to. To. To do something. What was that? What was that something? And when you stop doing those things that are in your zone of genius, when you stop doing those things that really make a difference, then you're robbing the world of your skills, of your talents, of your knowledge. The world needs to hear your voice. That's vital. The world, uh, doesn't need you to do admin. There are other people for whom their zone of genius is doing administration, which is kind of cool. And so I love that win, win, win solution. So the client wins because they're focusing on their zone of genius. The virtual assistant or the executive assistant wins because they're focusing on their world, um, their zone of genius and the world. And the clients. Clients win because they get the benefit of that person in the world.

Gary Marra: Yeah. And absolutely. The organization, the administration is a skill and a talent that some people have. Some adult. We'll come back to that maybe in a little bit. But what I want to get to now Is why. Why, when you work with these founders, why do you. What holds them back? They haven't made the ship. Where does. Where does the resistance usually come from?

Ana Brambilla: It's a very difficult thing. And I think that's probably one of the biggest difficulties that my clients face, is that they're so used to doing it themselves, and they think there's just, you know, um, I'll just do it myself. Uh, it's better. I can do it faster. I don't have to train anybody. I, you know, I don't like doing it, but I'll just buckle down and do it. Or they think it's going to cost a lot of money to have somebody. And I think that's the most critical part, is that transition, that learning to delegate. Luckily, we have a phenomenal training program that teaches people and helps people learn how to delegate. But, uh, that is the hardest part, because there is that mentality, oh, I've done it all myself. Until they realize, like I did, that I was limiting, I was stunting my company's growth because I wasn't doing the things that lit me up and that were in my zone of genius. And it took some time. I had to do it in pieces. Um, but what we find again and again and again is clients come to us and say, oh, I can't possibly have a VA or an executive assistant in the ea. I don't have more than maybe five hours a week of work, maybe, you know, and then they start delegating, and they realize what a powerful thing it is, and they're like, oh, wait, this person can take on this aspect of things for me. This person can take on that aspect of things for me. And the next thing you know, they. They're delegating 20 to 30 hours a week. But it's that first step that is admittedly the toughest. And even the first step, frankly, is even just admitting that they're doing things that they shouldn't be doing. And then once they admit that it's okay, I'm going to. I'm stenting the growth of my own company, and then, okay, I need somebody, but I don't know what to look for. And that's where we step in. And then it's okay, well, I don't possibly have any work for this person to do. And then it snowballs from there in a positive way.

Gary Marra: Yeah, no, interesting. I could see. Now, I could see this with podcasting, too, because there is a lot of administration to it, too, uh, because I do do everything myself, and, uh, it is very time consuming. I enjoy it and, and I enjoy doing it. Right. But I'm thinking in my head the exact same things. Boy, it would be nice if somebody would do my promo clips and post them out there on YouTube and all that stuff. Um, but let's get back to that conversation we were having about, um, some people are good at the administration, organization. There's a little bit of personality and self awareness that we talked about in our pre meeting. Um, so how does knowing your own personality type, your own profile, where your strengths actually live, change this whole conversation? And what happens when founders are working against that natural wiring? Right.

Ana Brambilla: Most people that I know who are founders are multi capable, right? They're multi talented. They can do a lot of different things. And especially the founders that I know were successful typically in business. Some were executives of large companies and then got to that way by being able to do a lot of different things. And so what I saw, see is that people are used to being capable, right? They're used to doing it. I'm sure, you know, as we talked about with you, you could do all of that stuff and it's just, you know, I, I know I can do it. And it's hard to acknowledge that there are things that, yeah, you can do, but you don't really like doing. And so what we encourage people to do is to really sit down and discuss, discuss, think about their ideal life, their ideal day. If they could let you know they could do whatever they wanted the entire day. What does that look like? And that's something that we really work strongly with people on. Uh, is focus on those aspects of the job that you could do all day and feel great about and let's focus on that and let's find a way for you to do only those things and then let's find a way. But it does take some self awareness. Um, some people are great at it, some people not so much. We do use a lot of tools. Um, there's various assessments out there. Frankly, ChatGPT, if you use it long enough, can really get to know you and identify your strengths. But it's also something frankly that I do when I do on the intake calls that I pride myself on being very good at is people talk about, yeah, yeah, yeah, m. Um, you know, whatever it is. But then I was known when I was a franchise broker and even now I'm getting below the surface. Okay, you say that and that's great, but once below the surface, what else is going on? And it takes some time and it takes Some. That connection, uh, and that relationship and that trust, that takes some time to get there.

Gary Marra: Yeah, I bet. I. Because I bet that's not easy for a lot of people to write. What do you. Because you're so used to, well, what is your. If you could just have your ideal day and everybody's like, yeah, oh, come on. I bet they're like, come on, I've got to do the work. I've got to do this right. It. It's hard to let go. I bet people really struggle with that.

Ana Brambilla: Very much so. And understandably so. I mean, please understand this is. There's is no judgment here whatsoever. I completely understand it. I was the same way. Um, it's totally normal, totally common. Everybody feels that way. So please understand that. There's no judgment. But it is hard. It is hard. And again, most people who get to be founders are. Have done incredible things, and they've done that by being able to be very confident in a lot of things. And there's a certain sense of pride in that, which is totally understandable and wonderful. But let's see how you can step more into your zone of genius and really focus on those things that really only you can do.

Gary Marra: Yeah. And, um. So, yeah, I think I would. I'm just thinking through. While you're saying this. I'm thinking through past, uh, roles I had, past jobs. And I'm going, yeah, I probably wouldn't let go of things, probably because I, you know, I'm not really like a control type person. But I knew stuff that had to be done and I didn't want to let go of it.

Ana Brambilla: Yeah.

Gary Marra: Um, so that's kind of interesting to think about. Um, so let's talk about your own experience real quick, because you told me a great story I wanted the audience to hear about when you, I think you were an MBA in a consulting class, was it? And you had a group project and a partner, and you had a total personality difference between. Whoops. Between the two. Sorry about that. And then you switched roles mid project. Can you walk everybody through what happened? Because I think that's a fun story for everyone.

Ana Brambilla: It is, and it's very illustrative. So I was doing an MBA class with a good friend of mine, and we were doing, uh, some project work, and we were helping a company sort of walk through what they do, some strategic planning, and I was the role of the facilitator and asking questions and generating conversation and keeping things on track, but really getting to the heart of what they were trying to do. And my Friend and colleague was the scribe. And she was capturing everything and making sure all the details were accurate and making sure that they had a, uh, written, uh, history, if you will, of the conversation and that they could go back and look and being MBA students were like, you know what? We need to get out of our comfort zone. Let's switch roles and let's try this. And, you know, because it was all about, you know, breaking free from, from comfort. And I totally understand that. And it wasn't the wrong thing to say or to do, but what happened was we were both miserable. I hated the details. Nobody could read my handwriting. Anyway, um, and she hated being in the spotlight and, you know, having these conversations and facilitating the conversation in the meeting and about five minutes. Well, okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration. But at the next break, we looked at each other. What the heck can we do?

Gary Marra: It was self inflicted pain. Right?

Ana Brambilla: Self inflicted pain. And when we went back, we were so phenomenal. And the feedback we got from the team was, oh, my God, these people were phenomenal. They facilitated, did a great job, and we both ended up getting A's in the class, which is a nice afterthought.

Gary Marra: All right.

Ana Brambilla: But, uh, it was because, you know, there's so many people that say, get out of your comfort zone. And I get, and I understand that. But I also think we should absolutely stay in our comfort zone. We can grow, we can do things that push our skill, our skills and our limits.

Gary Marra: Right.

Ana Brambilla: But, uh, for my, you know, in that case, I might have gone on to do bigger projects and more longer projects or bigger teams. Still within my zone of, um, well, son of genius. Still within my, my comfort zone. Um, but pushing the boundaries a little bit. But me being a scribe at a meeting. Yeah, you don't want.

Gary Marra: Not so much.

Ana Brambilla: No, not so much.

Gary Marra: I hear you. So this is interesting though, but this actually, it's not just something for founders. This could apply, um, to employees, managers in a company. Right.

Ana Brambilla: It's so true. And in fact, my other saying is being unmanageable is your superpower. And by that I mean people want to put you into a box and don't do that. Don't let them be in, uh, a, you know, be unmanageable. Break out of that box and really focus on your strengths and what you're good at and really focus in on that and see the world in a different way. And that's so applicable to everybody. Yes, you see that mostly with founders, but that's also true for employees. Be Unmanageable. Be creative. Step out of the box that people want to put you in, and I can tell you, you're gonna come up with creative solutions and ideas that nobody ever thought of. And there's gonna be some companies that say, no, you need to stick in that box. And that's fine if that's your box. And if it's not, then, you know, look outside and find something else.

Gary Marra: You might be in the wrong room. Right? Well, yeah, now I know it. I talk about bigger companies being very difficult to do then, and because they're very. You gotta have that box. But it is good advice and a good thing to think of, but also just, um, delegating more to other people and letting go. That lesson still applies to leaders of all levels, and so I think the whole thing is applicable. Um, all right, so let's talk about results. Maybe if you want to come up with an example, that's fine. But the next question I had in mind was, you know, what really happens to these businesses once a leader, uh, or a founder buys in, clears that space, stays in their zone of genius? What changes for the people around them, their team, their clients, the quality of work that's being done?

Ana Brambilla: Everybody changes. Right? So what I've seen for myself, for example, is that once I empowered my team, so the first business that I created within the franchise was providing virtual assistants, uh, to other people who own the same franchise I did. And I found this amazing woman, uh, over in the Philippines, and I swear she walks on water. And I empowered her. She grew and discovered her own talents, her own skills, and grew to be a person that was. Is phenomenal. And, uh, has really. One of my things I'm most proud of in my career is seeing her. She started off as sort of more insecure and more worried and worried about doing the wrong thing and worried about the wrong people. And she's grown this team to 20 virtual assistants. And they adore her and think she's incredible, and she is incredible. So she's grown, which is incredible, is just amazing. Um, uh, the other people that were my clients of that business grew, um, because again, they were focused on the things that they wanted to do. I grew because I was able to give that task. I created the idea, I gave the general infrastructure. But then I empowered my people to do what they needed to do, and everybody was happy. So then I knew that when it was time to start another company, I knew I had the team in place and allowed me then to do that, um, by knowing that my team has Things covered. I can be on podcasts, I can talk to you. I can go networking, I can travel. I can think about the next great idea. I don't like calling myself a visionary because I hate that word. It sounds so egotistical. But I love coming up with ideas and having all kinds of options and allows me then to go down that path and work on being a thought leader and work on coming up with creative solutions to various problems that I hear, which makes me happy. Um, you know, I'm. I'm traveling. I do a lot of traveling, and I get to do that with my family and know that things are taken care of and know that the team feels empowered to do what they're good at. Nobody wants to be micromanaged. At least I haven't found anybody who wants to be micromanaged.

Gary Marra: I don't think so.

Ana Brambilla: If you're out there, good luck to you.

Gary Marra: Let us know, we'll have you on the show. Why don't you let us know? We'll dive into that.

Ana Brambilla: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So nobody wants to be micromanaged. They wanted to be respected and appreciated and empowered to do what they want to do.

Gary Marra: So let me ask you this. I don't want to outrun the good feeling here, but sometimes this might fail, right? And I assume you've seen this fail. This is just kind of the warning signs, what to look out for, what might be the cause of it? Uh, well, you tell me, where could somebody go wrong and what are the things to be careful of?

Ana Brambilla: The big thing is to make sure that you're hiring the right person. And I did that in the very beginning. I hired wonderful woman, nothing against her. I hired her, a former client, to be my virtual assistant. And that was. I just thought, oh, well, you know, she's a nice person, I'll hire her. And it turned out not to work because I didn't set up the boundaries, I didn't set up the criteria, I didn't set up the tasks. I just sort of said, go, take it. And. And because she was a former client, there was some weird dynamics. And so that was a failure. Um, then I said, okay, I need a virtual assistant. Let me try US based. And I found somebody who was very nice, but she was charging me $45 an hour and not giving me quality work. And it got to the point where I was terrified to even talk to her because having a five minute conversation was going to cost me 10 bucks, 15 bucks, and I wouldn't accomplish anything. And so then that's. That was A bad fit. Um, even among our clients, it's rare because I pride ourselves. We pride ourselves on doing a really amazing job with the matchmaking. But sometimes you get. You hired the wrong person, and that happens, and it's sad, and you have to let that person go. We've had that happen more internally than with our clients. Whatever reason, the person comes in and presents themselves one way in the interview and turns out not to be right. It m. Uh, happened to me personally when I started my career. I was a financial analyst and was horrible at it. Absolutely. It's detailed and precise, and you stick in your corner.

Gary Marra: I was just gonna say. Yeah. From what you've told me, I don't see you doing that.

Ana Brambilla: No, no, no. It was not a good fit. And, you know, nothing against the companies that hired me. Nothing against me. Again, getting out of my zone of genius, I thought, well, you know, not an mba. Um, you know, I like numbers. I'm relatively smart. I can do this. It was a horrible fit. And so what I encourage people to look at is if it doesn't work out, certainly do an autopsy.

Gary Marra: Right.

Ana Brambilla: Do a. Do, uh, a postmortem. Why didn't it work out? But 99.9%. Nine. Whatever. Nine out of 10 times, it's because it was the wrong person for the role. And once you can identify that and hire right the next time, that's when things change. But, yeah, no, I. It's not. It's not all, you know, rainbows and lollipops and, uh, kittens and stuff.

Gary Marra: Yeah, no, I like to always ask those type questions because I want to make sure we're. We're being realistic and we give both scenarios. But it's also, what do you need to look out for? What do you need to be careful? Because it, you know, we call it your customer, your success for a reason. We want you people to use this and be a success. And here's, um, a strategy. But just be careful of this. Right?

Ana Brambilla: So, um.

Gary Marra: No, that's great. Thank you.

Ana Brambilla: Another, ah, quick anecdote that I always told when I talk because I was in. I, uh, was in, um, outplacement services and helping people who have been laid off find their next job. So one of the things that I was taught was interviewing, and one of the things that I. Little nugget that people came back to me repeatedly and said, oh, this was really helpful and insightful. People don't know how to interview. And when they interview, it's always, um, people don't know how to interview. Other candidates, basically, is what I'm saying.

Gary Marra: Yeah.

Ana Brambilla: And when they do, it's. They're asking the same boring questions over and over again. But one of the questions that they often ask are, ah, what are your strengths? And people have canned answers for that. And then they say, what are your weaknesses? And people say, oh, I'm just. Darn it, Too perfectionist. I'm just too committed to my work. I just, you know, it's boring. I care too much. Just darn it, you know. And what I told people is give real examples that will differentiate yourself. If they want somebody that has your supposed weakness, then you're not the right fit for the job. And thank goodness you've got, uh, discovered in the interview. So for me, I would say I am horrible at details. The precise, uh, When I was a financial analyst, I was horrible at that. I was horrible at staying behind my desk. I like to be out there connecting with people. Whatever it is, turn. It's a real weakness, but turn it into a strength. And that was something that was really impactful. I actually got job offers because I, uh.

Gary Marra: You actually gave an honest answer to it.

Ana Brambilla: Yeah, I gave an honest answer. And same thing with my clients when taking us off on a different tangent.

Gary Marra: No, that's great, though. That's very helpful because I've. People struggle with that question. I don't think it's a great interview question, number one. I think it's something depending on what you're doing. I'm not a fan of it, but that's right. Just. Just be honest about it because the, the fake, phony sort of. I'm going to twist it and it doesn't. Doesn't work. I've heard lots of people talk about that. So, um, interesting one and a nice little kind of side road we went on there. All right, so we got time for one more question in the traditional interview segment of the show. And it's. That's the way I like to wrap it up. Uh, most of the time, if a founder listening right now knows they're doing the work, they should really hand off, but haven't moved on it yet. What is their first real step?

Ana Brambilla: First real step is give me a call. Um, our website is, um, virtually aligned.com podcast. And what we can do is we'll have a conversation. Let's talk about what you're doing. Let's talk about the ideal person. Maybe you know that, maybe you don't. But that's one of my strengths is to help you figure that out. And let's Just talk about what does, what would that person do? And then I'll give you a job prescription that's yours to keep. We do that for free. Take that. And we, uh, encourage people, go to fiverr, go to upwork, try and recruit for that person. Um, just to give you a quick aside, on average, we get between 6 and 900 applicants for every single job that we host. My team goes through each of them and takes everyone through a rigorous 20 step process. And so that we only present you with the top two to four candidates that you get to interview. But start thinking about that. What, what would life look like if you didn't have to do all the admin stuff that you didn't want to do? But give me a call, I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody, just to talk it through. I've been there. I know what it's like.

Gary Marra: Yeah, I, I bet. I mean, that is, I think, yeah. Step number one is, um, just saying, all right, I gotta do this right? Um, and admitting to yourself, you gotta let go of some stuff. Awesome. So, great first segment of the show, but we gotta hit the segments. Let's move to does it Hold Water? All right, everybody, it is time for does it hold Water? My favorite segment. This is where I ask our guest to be a resident expert witness for the day. I read them a piece of thought leadership, a quote, and they let us know if the defense case holds water or not. You ready?

Ana Brambilla: I'm ready.

Gary Marra: Let's roll. This is changing gears a little bit, but you have quite the background in this topic. The defense says if you want to be an entrepreneur without betting everything on an unproven idea, franchising can be the answer. Someone else already did the hard work. The model works, the brand's established and the path is laid out. The investment reflects how much risk has already been taken off the, the table. Does the defense case hold water?

Ana Brambilla: 100%. 100%.

Gary Marra: I had a feeling you'd say that.

Ana Brambilla: Yes, exactly, exactly. And franchising is not right for everybody. Let's be clear. You know, I always say that there's three types of people in the world. There's people who love corporate. They love the structure, they love the hierarchy. They love the, the comradery of business, you know, of bosses and colleagues and stuff like that. They love the, frankly so called security. And any job can go away at any time. But you know, they love that, um, they love the steady paycheck. They love that they have their focus. Then there are the people who are the true entrepreneurs. In any kind of structure. And rules is anathema to them. You know, get the heebie jeebies. Those are the true entrepreneurs. Then they're the people in the middle. Like so many of my clients who want to be an entrepreneur, they want to control their own destiny. They want to do that, but they don't have that brilliant idea and, or they want something that's a little bit more proven. That's where a franchise can be a really, really powerful thing. Now, a franchise is still, um, structured. You have to follow their models. You have to stick with system standards. Uh, depending on the franchise, you have a lot of flexibility or not a lot of flexibility ability. But it's very important, um, that for people who want to be an entrepreneur, franchising can be a phenomenal, phenomenal way to, uh, to get into entrepreneurship. It was for me, I loved it when I was doing it. And now it's time for me to step out of that and be my own entrepreneur.

Gary Marra: Yeah, no, interesting. Very interesting topic. Because I think what this, it shifts the risk a little, right? Because it's not people. I think people think, uh, it's risky. You're taking a risk. Well, you are. You're taking a certain risk. But so staying in corporate because of the job loss and the increased likelihood of that, especially as you keep going on in your career in years, shall we say. Um, but you just see it every day. Look, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn because of what I do. But you see, this company laid off 5,000. This company laid up 4,000. This company laid off 4,000. And they're blaming AI, which is a whole other topic. But, um, there is risk staying in corporate, um, so you get to control your own destiny a little bit. Right? So that's the good and the bad. But you do lose that stability of the exact paycheck every two weeks or whatever.

Ana Brambilla: You get paid 100%. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. So few, so few people realize how, how unstable corporate America can be. You know, I had cases of client after client. We can go off on a whole other tangent about this, but I had clients time after time who say, I was promised promotions for years that never came. I worked my entire, you know, I did the best work of my life for this company and, you know, didn't get that raise of promotion because this other department, you know, screwed the pooch, so to speak. We didn't do a very good job, uh, whatever it is, or a vp. And I've seen this more times than I can Count. A VP wakes up in a snit one day and says, oh, uh, we're getting rid of that entire department. And everybody in there suddenly hasn't. Doesn't, you know, has been laid off.

Gary Marra: Right. Yeah. And there might not be little or to no equity into it, depending on what you do and the size of the company and what level you're at. But you could work very hard for a number of years. And there's no exit value to you. Right. It's. It's a layoff. And okay, there's a package. Yeah, here is severance package. There's your exit value, but that's it.

Ana Brambilla: Yep.

Gary Marra: So you're not building the exit.

Ana Brambilla: Two weeks and you know. Yeah, all kinds of things.

Gary Marra: Hopefully it's more than that.

Ana Brambilla: Two weeks in a couple days of vacation. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole other subject. We can go down. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But yes, I mean, it's corporate America, and with AI, I think, frankly, a lot of companies are using AI as an experience excuse to lay off people. But I think it is also changing things.

Gary Marra: That's, uh. Yeah, I think it's an excuse. And we've talked about that before. And actually, I've got another episode coming up on that. Just dropping a hint. Uh, we'll be. We'll be taking that topic on, so. All right, great job on. Does it hold water? Let's move the chip shots. All right, everybody, it's time for chip shots. These are my shorter form questions. Still professional, but a little bit more personal in nature. And we love to go with the book question. Uh, first, what is one book that has significantly influenced your professional personal life and how did it impact you?

Ana Brambilla: You know, I, I struggled with this one because there's so many atomic habits, power of your attitude. Um, you know, there's so many. But I was realizing the one that got me started as an entrepreneur is you are a badass by Jensen Chero. And it got me down a whole rabbit hole. That has been wonderful. And I realized that by shifting my focus and focusing on what I was trying to achieve. I look at my life now and I'm like, uh, it's phenomenal in every aspect, and I'm just grateful for that. So it's a bit woo, but I'm in California, so I'm allowed to be woo.

Gary Marra: Woo is okay. Especially in this section, we have chip shots just for the woo. But no, that is a great one and I love different ones. And yeah, we have had atomic habits before, but not the second one you mentioned. So great one, thank you for that. All right, I love this one. This is turning into my favorite question. If you could spend the day shadowing a real current leader, professional in any industry, who would it be and what would you hope to learn?

Ana Brambilla: Mel Robbins. I am so in awe of that woman. She's so honest and open and curious and has created this incredible empire. Um, of her podcast and all of her work she faced. You know, she talks openly about how she was hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, the restaurant that her husband was operating was failing and ultimately failed. She didn't know what to do. And look at where she is now. And I just. She does it in such a way that's so humble and so honest and so raw that you're drawn in. And she's creating these incredible things. You know, the let them theory, the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. All of that stuff. Stuff. I, I just, I know I could learn so much from her and be honored to have that time with her.

Gary Marra: Yeah, and she does that. And it's a very real and down to earth way. Right. It's not, it's, uh, very interesting. She had something on. I'm not familiar with a lot of it, but one thing I listened to, I think she had a thing on reinventing yourself or re rebooting your career or something like that too.

Ana Brambilla: Oh, I haven't heard that. I'll have to listen to that.

Gary Marra: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think I, I downloaded that on a long road trip one time for something totally different. Um, just because I was changing the way I was doing things at the time. So it's right before I started the podcast. So. Great one. All right, this is gonna be interesting for you, this failure question. It works, uh, so well with so many guests. Is there a particular failure experience early in your career taught you a valuable lesson you still use today?

Ana Brambilla: Oh, gosh, I've failed so many times. I. You know, as I mentioned as I started as a financial analyst, honestly, I got fired from that job three times.

Gary Marra: Three. How are you? Three times.

Ana Brambilla: I'm great at interviewing. I'm great at getting jobs. Uh, I suck at doing the work. And it was painful. It still haunts me to this day. But I realized again, it got me thinking about A, being unmanageable and B, being in my zone of genius. And so that's that something that I'm so grateful it hurt like heck at the time, believe me, I was not happy with that. But when it happened, it was, it really Woke me up and said, what are the things that only I can do?

Gary Marra: Mhm. That's interesting. So the third time was truly the charm in this case.

Ana Brambilla: Third time was the charm. Exactly, exactly.

Gary Marra: That's great.

Ana Brambilla: Tell you, I don't, I don't love advertising. The fact that I got fired from my job three times, but it was, look at me now.

Gary Marra: But look at you now because you're such a successful. And so many different things, I can't even keep track of them all. That's why I have the, uh, intros and everything. All right, one more to wrap it up. What is one question that you ask clients that never fails to reveal something new?

Ana Brambilla: Well, it's not one question. Right. It's listening to them and going deeper. So you said this, but what I heard was this. Is that accurate? And so that's, I guess, a broader question that I ask clients. But it's not one thing.

Gary Marra: It's not. Yeah, but so it's similar. I've had someone say, I think it was the episode that came out today. It's the, um, the question that Laurie asked people, Lori Feiner, is what's one thing you didn't tell me today that you need to tell me? Right. So it's very similar because you're saying one thing, but what are you really getting at?

Ana Brambilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gary Marra: Interesting. All right, great one. Thank you so much. Ana Brambilla, great guest. Tell us where we could find you.

Ana Brambilla: Check me out. LinkedIn, you know LinkedIn.com in Ana Brambula. Check me out there. Come to our website, uh, virtually aligned.com podcast. Come check out my other company, yourfranchisepros.com and keep an eye out for being unmanageable is your superpower.

Gary Marra: Nice. Look, I told you she does a lot. Everybody does a lot in the show. It's amazing. Uh, like I say, I get exhausted just thinking all the things my guests do. My God.

Ana Brambilla: All right, you get some incredible stuff yourself there, so I wouldn't let you know, put yourself down at all.

Gary Marra: No. Thank you though. I appreciate it. But thanks again, uh, for being here. Thank you all for watching, uh, or listening to your customer success. If you are listening, don't forget there's a video on YouTube. And if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget the audio is available on all major, uh, plop. Excuse me, all major podcast platforms. That's all for today. We'll be back with more CX leaders, customer success leaders, entrepreneurs and all sorts of fun, interesting people. Bye for now. See you later. That's a wrap. Thank you so much for tuning in today. We hope you found something insightful that will enhance your experiences and drive your success. If you enjoy the episode, please leave a review and share your thoughts to help us improve the show. Don't forget to head on over to maracxhub.com for more ways to connect with me and learn more about experience management. Until next time, I'm Gary Mara, working hard for your customer and your success.