AI Search, Digital Authority, and the Proof Gap with Ashley Smith

Gary Marra: Next on your customer, your success, Ashley Smith.

Ashley Smith: So walk into this assuming you have a gap, and that gap is the disconnect between your real world expertise, your real world reputation, and how it shows up online. Right. And so I like to get into solutions and advise to people the the easy wins because there are the folks who have that expertise, have the most to offer and they don't need to have had like a social media presence over the last last 15 years to make this effective. Today, with the changes we're seeing with AI search.

Narrator: Welcome to your customer, your success, the Marra CX Hub podcast, bringing you insights from innovators who are excelling in their fields. I'm your host, Gary Mara, and each episode we dive into the strategies and mindsets that drive customer centric success. Our guests share their journeys, revealing the secrets behind their achievements with a special focus on creating great experiences. Whether you're a business leader, solopreneur, or simply someone striving for excellence, you'll find

Gary Marra: actionable advice to elevate your strategy, get ready to learn a lot, have some

Narrator: fun, and transform your path to success.

Gary Marra: Hi everyone, and welcome back to your customer, your success. My guest today is Ashley Smith, a digital authority strategist and the creator of the Proof Cap, the idea that explains why so many experienced professionals are going invisible online even as their expertise keeps growing. Ashley spent nearly two decades in real estate, including serving as board chair and media spokesperson for for Greater Vancouver Realtors, representing more than 14,000 members. Today, she is the founder of show your Proof Consulting and the brave new podcast host of the Proof Gap. Ashley, welcome to the show.

Ashley Smith: Carrie, thank you so much for having me today.

Gary Marra: Yeah, we're thrilled to have you here. And how is the podcast going?

Ashley Smith: I'm loving it. I. I've been podcasting for some time. Uh, this, uh, this side is a little new, talking about this subject, but I like the microphone and I love talking to people. Um, and I know a lot of people don't like the microphone and that's some of the stuff that I like to get into. So, um, if you heard me say that and that scares you, don't worry. Uh, there's ways to get around that.

Gary Marra: That is what we're talking about today. So.

Narrator: Perfect.

Gary Marra: Uh, segue, let's get rolling on it. Very interesting topic. So you argue that a lot of experienced prestos don't have an expertise problem. It's a visibility problem. Right. So, uh, for a founder operator out there who's built some credibility over the years, what's actually happening when that credibility stops translating into being found and ultimately chosen.

Ashley Smith: Yeah, I think that we all sort of see the writing on the wall in terms of how consumer behavior is starting to evolve and in terms of like how technology is empowering ourselves as, as consumers, as decision makers, we're far more informed, or at least we think we are. True, we have access to a lot of information. And so, you know, the reason why I'm doing this is I come from what's very much a legacy sector in real estate. Um, you know, um, there is some innovation now we're starting to see in the real estate arena, but for the most part the, that industry has been fairly undisrupted for a long time. More, uh, at least compared to what you might think you would have seen. Right. So being kind of boots on the ground for 18 years and being involved in leadership roles and knowing professionals and practitioners and like really good ones, like the best ones, the people who, who have been around a long, long time, who end up serving their industry, etc, um, I got to see a lot of sort of trends. Um, even with people who I highly admire, highly respect, people who mentored me. It's, I think we know like there's been a cohort, a generation of professionals, not exclusively, but generally who their, their real world reputation drove their business and, and still does. Um, but changes are happening and so they're like in person relationships, their referral business, um, that real world trust isn't translating to the same level of trust that uh, it used to because people are now vetting everything. Right. Um, where I started to really notice this was um, because I'm no longer practicing in real estate, but because I know folks from kind of all over Canada and to some extent the US People call me like, you know, who, who should I work with? I need a, I need an expert in this, um, you know, market area. This is, these are my needs. And I'd always try to pair people up with their specific needs. And so I still do that. I send names, I know the folks. But I'm becoming more and more hesitant because even when I know the name, even when I know they're great, when I look them up and to share their contact info, to share their, their, you know, the, what you can see about them online. Um, a lot of dated infrastructure, not very deep, not a lot of, um, you know, it's not necessarily showcasing the skills and the judgment and the expertise that I know these professionals have. And so for me as like a trusted peer to be a little doubtful about, I Don't know if I should send this along because it reflects on me like I'm not. Does it look like I'm sending the best. Right. Um, and, and then on the flip side is those people receive it and they, they're vetting. We all know we, we look things up and, and I, I'll, I'll keep, I'm already going too long. I'll keep it short. But we also know that we're starting to look for experts, solutions. We're asking very deep and sometimes very personal questions when we're searching online now, um, but whether with Google or with the AI tools, so we're looking for who are very specific problems and when you don't have the data that showcases that you have the capacity and authority to address those things, you're, you're really, you're not showing up at all. Right. Or if they know your name, you're just not showing up the way you deserve to. And so, you know, um, I like to get into solutions and advise to people. The, the easy wins because there are the folks who have that expertise, have the most to offer and they don't need to have had like a social media, um, you know, presence over the last last 15 years to make this effective today with the changes we're seeing with AI search.

Gary Marra: So, yeah, so I think that's an interesting topic. We'll get to the uh, social media and how much it should be out there and where and all that stuff. But so you, you call this thing the, the, the proof gap, right? So yeah. How, how, how does a leader know whether or not they have one of these things?

Ashley Smith: Well, well I would, I would argue that most people have some gap. Right. So walk into this assuming you have a gap. And that gap is the disconnect between your real world expertise, your real world reputation and how it shows up online. Right. So the easiest thing to do is Google yourself. Right. Um, like if you're not using AI at all, Google yourself. Google over the last um, couple of weeks and I know this may air a little bit later, but very recently Google has announced that it's totally shifting. Um, um, it's search search, uh, engine and how customers, um, are, sorry, how searchers, you know, interact with that search bar. Um, so less and less are they directing, uh, searchers uh, straight to websites. They're giving AI overviews and they're giving answers and they're encouraging conversations. Right. So the number one thing someone can do, whether it's for themselves as a professional or for a business or an Organization is like search the name, search the, your title, your market area and see what comes up. Like you can keep it pretty simple. Um, if you happen to uh, encounter a search that just lands on your website, go to that AI overview because more and more that's where people are going to land. And like you can simply ask why might I hire my name in this market area for this? And see what it says. What is it saying? You are good at what you're known for. Um, does it really touch on sort of your most elite sort of skills today? Does it, does it speak to why people hire you today? Does it maybe speak to why people hired you seven years ago? Right. Like depending on the type of content that is out there on the Internet, um, let's see what it captures. And then the next thing is to like look up who would I hire? If it's a service business, who would I hire to help me with a specific problem that you think you're good at? Right. Don't put your name in there. If you're on Google, go into incognito mode. Um, but I do also encourage you do this on ah, an LLM, an AI tool of choice if you are using it like a ChatGPT or a Claude. Um, ask similar questions, see what comes up. Most people won't be the ah, a cited name. Um, see who does come up and maybe ask why are you recommending this business or this person and, and see what the answer is and then reflect on, you know, how you might have that gap in your online presence.

Gary Marra: So interesting. So let's say you go out there and you're, you're not coming up, right? What, what now, now what do you do?

Ashley Smith: I think this doesn't have to be overwhelming. I think when we think about AI and we automatically think this is technical, this is hard, right? Especially if you're not like, um, you know, heavily into technology and you don't do a lot maybe with you know, your website or social media, like, but just know that it doesn't have to be hard to start showing up the way that, that you want. And so the first thing I really tell people is to determine like what are the three things that you want to be known for that you are already known for that differentiate you in your market or in your profession or in you know, field. Um, and so what are those things? Um, what are like if you were giving an elev elevator pitch to somebody today that you meet, like what would you tell them? Right? Those are the things that we need to start leaning into and figuring out how to establish that authority online. So I think clarity around those things is number one. Um, a lot of people, like, as I'm talking to folks about this, uh, people automatically try to go to like, well, how do I game this system? How do I figure out what people are searching? Right. I, I wouldn't lean too heavily into that, especially in the beginning. I would lean far more into like, you're getting emails every day, what are they about? Right, Those, how are you, what kind of answers are you giving people? And those are the kinds of things that you probably want to be known for because you've already established that authority in real life. So now we just have to translate it online. And it's a lot easier to do you if you actually are that expert in that thing. Um, and I guess a little bit of encouragement is, I think a lot of folks might, um, not give themselves enough, uh, credit, like credit where credit is due. It's very easy to not know what you're good at. And it's really easy to dismiss how important certain things are when they're part of your everyday operation. Right. So, um, if you've been in your business, if you've been doing your thing for like 10 plus years, you have these things, right? We just have to figure out what they are and then we get, we can start diving into some tactics if you like.

Gary Marra: So, yeah, interesting, because a lot of people I think might be listening to this and say, I don't want to get it. You know, people are just learning. Some people just learning what SEO is and all this stuff. And now you're saying not a lot of people, not just you people are saying, now you gotta forget about SEO. You gotta worry about, do you come up on AI now and everybody. Oh, forget about it. So, um, look, I've done that a couple times for the show just to see where I come up and a couple things I did come up in which I thought was interesting. But I think when we get down to it, because what I have to do, do I have to start creating content? And I think you're saying you could build visibility without being a content creator. So what does that look like for someone who has no interest in posting on LinkedIn every day or hosting a podcast on a Friday afternoon?

Ashley Smith: Yeah, so, so the first thing I, I just want to reaffirm is like, it's not that hard. But the fact that all these things are changing right now is the huge opportunity. You don't need to learn that much about the back end like there's always ways to optimize, right? But don't worry yourself with that stuff. The thing is a lot of people are sitting on the sidelines right now and that's the opportunity and that's why this is like, it's really worth leaning in right now. Um, but yeah, you don't have to be a content creator. I, you do have to put some content out there. So I realize sometimes it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, but what I'm really trying to get at is you don't have to be that like person that's trying to be out there creating um, entertainment. Creating, building an audience. This is the biggest differentiator. You don't need an audience for this to be effective. So you don't need to post any of this stuff on like Instagram or TikTok or whatever. Putting some stuff out there can be very helpful and I don't mean to dismiss it, but it's not the thing you need to do in order to establish credibility online. And so what you do need to do is figure out these, you know, few things you want to be good at and then figure out how to get it online in a meaningful way. And I do think, even though, you know, I'm saying you don't have to follow this like post more, post more, post more advice, you do need to establish some sort of rhythm, um, some sort of system. And so you're getting this stuff out in maybe a, ah, cadence of like every, at least every month, right? Maybe every two weeks. Really maybe every once a week. If you are trying to take like really lean in and have a head start and build something, you know, fairly quickly. And so what these search engines want by the way, all of them are a little different. Like they're not all going to give you the exact same answer but what essentially what these search engines want, including Google goal is for if they're going to reference something, uh, to somebody searching something online, they want to reference something that showcases authority, that showcases real world experience and expertise. And so how do you do that? Right, um, you know, posting a photo on LinkedIn, which I'm, I do all the time with a little caption like sure, that might show some authority if you're sharing your insights but you don't necessarily have to post, play that like posting game. The, the key things that I encourage people to do are to think about articles and uh, we can get into how to do that fairly easily, um, and have a public facing place for that to live. Right. Like if you're already sending out newsletters to your network by email or your customers, your clients, like, that's a step one. Right. You can easily take that and put it into a public realm. Well, and that could be on LinkedIn as an article. It could be on LinkedIn as part of their newsletter. The point is that it just needs to be public facing and searchable and discoverable. And that can add a lot. Right. It could be your website in terms of like a blog. Um, and, and so the, my favorite thing though is using the podcast, uh, approach. But I kind of refer to it as the UN Podcast. Like, you don't, you don't need to do this for an audience. And this is the big mindset shift. So many, um, especially these, like, like legendary veteran professionals are like, you know, it's not, for me, it's a vanity project. I don't need to do this. Um, I don't. They feel uncomfortable. They don't want to, they don't want to tell people. They don't want to share it. Right. They're, they're a little embarrassed maybe, or a little bit. It goes against everything they said they want to do. But all you really need to do is turn on, start, uh, recording on your phone or hop on with someone you know in, in your, in your office. Maybe an aligned professional, someone who's like in an adjacent business. Maybe it's, um, someone who does something similar to what you do, but across the country. Get on a weekly or bi weekly zoom call and just banter about key things that would benefit both of you in some way. So whether that's the insights, like the things you saw in the marketplace over the last two weeks, whether it's. These are the top three questions I got, um, from clients, or this is, these are my observations of how things are evolving and changing. Like, and then just talk about them. Right. You do not need to have a polished conversation. Um, but basically take these things and distribute them as podcasts. You don't have to share them. That part we can get in the weeds a little bit. It's really easy and it's really cheap. Okay. That's one thing I would say especially easy.

Gary Marra: Hang on.

Ashley Smith: So what. I don't mean being a podcaster, but I do. I think people think like, oh, just setting it up like is, is that part.

Gary Marra: No, being a guest is, is a little simpler. Right. You should maybe be prepared. But you're just talking about what you know, which is kind of why I became a host, because I'm just talking about what I know and asking questions of people who really know what they're talking about. Like you.

Ashley Smith: Absolutely. And so, um, I, I do recommend people try to establish their own thing that they can maybe control if they, if they can. Like, even if you, like, if you have a team, have a team meeting and record it. Like 10 minutes dedicated to your observations on the market or, or case studies, things that, that way, how did you solve somebody's problem last week without talking about the name specifically? Like without giving away any private, anonymous or sensitive information, but where you record the judgment. Right. Record how you solve that problem, record how you connected those dots and by then putting it out on an RSS feed, in a podcast or on YouTube. Right. Um, the, the, these search engines love, uh, the, the data, the real human voice that comes from this. What a lot of people may not know is that, ah, m. Basically all of these platforms now have AI generated transcripts. So as long as you're speaking clearly enough for, um, these tools to understand you, it's providing, you know, 10, 20 minutes of your thoughts and your voice online, um, in a pretty meaningful way. So the only place you want to get maybe a little clever is like the title, a bit of a summary and description, making sure your name is there, your business, your role, your market area, like making sure it's really clear.

Gary Marra: Art and art in itself, the title and all that. Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Smith: But again, if you're not thinking about like, how to optimize this to grow a show, if you're really thinking about how to optimize this to establish your online identity and to associate it with your business, it's a totally different thing. And then if you like it and you get good at it, then you can get like, like Gary and set up a proper situation. Right. Um, but you mentioned about guesting.

Gary Marra: Yeah.

Ashley Smith: And I think that's really important. Right. So one of the best ways, one of the most elite ways to get cited from search tools is to be positioned by other entities. So it's very easy for any business or any professional to build a website and claim to be the best at the thing that they do. Right. That's why like, search engines don't put, uh, a lot of weight on that. It's still good to know what you're known for, but they're not going to. It's not the same, same thing as if somebody talks about you or your business or why you're wonderful, like on a, uh, Reddit or something like that, like, but the, the, the, the power moves, especially for Folks who've been in business for some time and we can get to, like, what to do if you're newer. But if you've been around for 20 years, you have the network, right? You have people who can connect you. Like, maybe they're, maybe their company is putting out a blog and writing an article about whatever, and you can be cited. Just give them a quote. You don't.

Gary Marra: You also. Well, look, you also have a social media presence, whether you like it or not, from people that are talking about you. And we've, we've covered that on this show with Brook Selles and, um, her, her great firm that does social media marketing. Now she does it for bigger firms. But don't, you know, that is, and it's more than just, you know, Google reviews or whatever it is you're getting if, especially if you're big enough, you're getting talked about somewhere else. Now that could be a good thing and that could be building your credibility or maybe not. Right.

Ashley Smith: And there's, there's ways to address, you know, poor, bad reviews, um, and especially if it's not like a common place, right? Like if you're running a show where, uh, and by show I mean a business where there's. You're constantly getting like, negative reviews, uh, online, that's going to be a lot tougher. But if you're genuinely, like, operating something really sound and healthy, that m. Most people like a few bad reviews. Honestly, addressing them tends to, um, help the search engines recognize that your business that cares and that, um, it can link you back and, and can connect to all the other places where you're actually showcasing why you're so good at what you do. When it lives alone, it's harder to do that. Right. Um, and, and then there's also like the social, um, sort of the optics generally, uh, that just aren't great. So.

Gary Marra: But, you know, something that can be

Ashley Smith: managed, it can definitely be managed, especially if you're proactive. But also if there's a lot of other stuff, stuff that like, not noise, but like, you know, worthwhile, valuable content that is on the Internet, um, that's going to help, like the AI search engines, um, sort of be able to judge because they can't guess they're going to go by what information is out there.

Gary Marra: Right, Right.

Ashley Smith: Um, yeah. And so guesting on podcasts and talking about your expertise or talking about your business is a really wonderful way. So, um, you know, if you're on panels already, if you're already engaged in those ways, like, find out Ways to connect those dots and make sure that um, you know, don't be humble about it. Uh, connect like if you've been posted somewhere, connect that to your website so that um, AI knows you're the same person or the same business. It matters. It's not going to guess. And you know, I have my name, I'm just going to mention this like my name is Ashley Smith. I have one of the most common names in the English speaking language. Right. So uh, you know, Google and ChatGPT and Clock, they're not going to guess that I'm the same Ashley Smith that does this over here, does this over here, was in this article or was on this podcast. Like I need to intentionally bring these things together. And um, again it doesn't have to be very difficult to do. It's as simple as kind of like have a, have a media page on your website, like, or um, a thought leadership page that links out to where you're showing up. Right. Um, but that really is the um, um, the point of leverage for a lot of folks who are invisible. It's because they've been around a long time and they haven't had to lean into some of this stuff so much, but they typically have the network and they typically have the opportunities to um, showcase their expertise because they are trusted.

Gary Marra: Yeah, right. So I think what we're saying here is that, you know, you don't want to chase a public following like you want to. You don't want to pretend you're going to be an influencer out there and just be this personality, but you do, you do need to create some sort of content, uh, without being a quote unquote content creator that builds your authority and your trust. And so your thought leadership needs to be out there somewhere in some form. Uh, and I think that's what you're saying people are missing. Did I summarize that correctly? Is that your.

Ashley Smith: Yeah, it really is as simple as that. Right. And it really is as simple as like picking one or two ways to build that into your business strategy. So you know, and pick a cadence. Like um, if it's written form, that's great. The one thing I do also like about the conversational piece, if you don't want to publish it, you can still have like a 15 minute meeting with yourself, with your team, with somebody, record it and then you know, take those scripts that come out of it and put that into your AI tool that you use and say, help me generate an 800 word article that extracts looks like the key themes that we talked about today with a focus on xyz. Whatever your real intention is to get out there and, and there's your article. But it's also a, uh, even if AI is helping you write it, it's still authentic and it's original because it's based on your experience and your insights versus like where the bar is zero right now to be able to create like a, you know, me going to ask chat GPT create a top T like how to, how to succeed in business in 10 easy steps. Like every.

Gary Marra: If, if, if your, your top 10 stock picks for the week, which you don't have any expertise. Right.

Ashley Smith: So you know, if, if you're pulling that information from the Internet to create content, that uh, means it's, it's already there, it already exists. There's nothing original about it.

Gary Marra: Right, right.

Ashley Smith: And so these search engines know that that stuff is not what they're going to be citing. Uh, so if you can turn your words into something where you don't necessarily need to spend a lot of time. One of the other hacks, I'm telling people like you don't want to get into a meeting, you know, do a voice note on your phone, brain dump the things that you're thinking about, go through your emails. As I said, you know, what are. And now you have some AI tools that can help you do this. Like what were the key things I dealt with over the last month? And that can just trigger, you know, ideas and just brain dump it even if it's not perfect and grammatically correct and then turn it into something that is and publish it.

Gary Marra: So, so I think though, I think people are going to start to scratch their head at how, how am I going to get AI to really recommend me and they don't know how any of that works. So what, what, what separates, you know, being surfaced from being skipped in the simplest way, you could break it down because there's a technology component here that I'm sure you don't want people to worry about, but they might be scratching their head saying what is the differentiator? Really?

Ashley Smith: Yeah, I mean we can go deep, but I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. I think like number one is make sure all your stuff is clear and up to date. Right? Like look at your, look at your web presence right now. Make sure everything is there that should be there. So you know, make sure your profile or your about us or whatever is, is, is accurate. Make sure that that information isn't living in like photos and uh, by That, I mean, you know, images with text, like, make sure this is crawlable, text that's readable. You know, there's some of these simple mistakes. Um, they're something you can ask, um, Google to help you with or ask your IT person if you need to, is like, make sure your website doesn't have, um, um, like, uh, restrictions to being crawled by like AI bots. Because some of these things do. Most modern sites don't have it by default, but it's still worth showing.

Gary Marra: Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Ashley Smith: That's okay. Um, and then make sure you're connecting the dots, as I said. So if you do happen to lean in to LinkedIn, you know, um, and you do post there every once in a while, put your good thoughts in there. Like, make sure your website's there. Make sure you're, you're explicitly connecting who you are in the public realm with your business. You're like. And then on your website, make sure it's linking back to the other places you live. There are some backend code kind of things that we can all do. Um, a schema markup that's a little technical.

Gary Marra: Yeah, they leave that to the technical folks.

Ashley Smith: Yeah. So, but there, there, basically what I'm saying is there's always ways to like enhance and optimize. Um, but the, the, the key thing is like first search. What, what are people looking for? If they were looking for someone like me, what do I think they'd be looking for? Don't worry too much about the, like, what, what are the trends? What are the questions people are asking? Like what are the people asking when they, in real life come to you? Because those are often where things start online now too. Right. So people are asking for these things and you're not showing up. Um, see who does show up. Maybe reverse engineer a little bit about what they're doing. Ask that AI tool, like, why did you recommend these people? Like, what's showing up for you? And maybe get a little technical there. Like not just what's the expertise, but, um, what, what is helping you see them. Right. Like what is helping? And that'll help you understand your, um, sort of competition in this way. And it's going to range, right. Like if you're a global company, that's going to be very different than if you're serving a very hyper local market and the opportunity. Right. So there's no one size fits all. But seeing, you know who is coming up, ask the AI tools, they're going to tell you why they're recommending these things. And then, you know, put in your website and be like, why didn't you recommend this name? Right? What, what's missing? And sometimes, uh, you know what I've noticed, they will say, oh, that's also a really good choice. Like, and that's great. But it's like, well, how can I end up in the. Usually these things are giving like multiple, uh, references or recommendations, not typically a single. But maybe here are the top three businesses or professionals that you might want to look at. And sometimes I'll even see without being prompted. And here are the different considerations. And so you'll kind of see the way the AI tools are like, quote, unquote, thinking, like, what is it they're thinking about when they're bringing you these answers?

Gary Marra: Interesting. So let me ask you this. What are people spending on time on that that doesn't move the needle that they should just set? Like, like forget it. Or are they just not spending time on anything?

Ashley Smith: Uh, yeah, it depends. I mean it depends on budgets, right? Like, do you have whole departments dealing with marketing and what are they doing? I, um, do think then at that point it's also like if you, if you have those sorts of resources and capacity and you're searching yourself and you're not coming up the way you want, then you kind of. It's not just a marketing issue. It's also like almost a strategic issue. So as a leader, you kind of have to decide what's the priority and make sure you're prioritizing, that you're not just getting the attention, but you're also establishing yourself for what you want to be known for. And I can understand there's a. Depending on what your business is, um, you know, you might be the, the funnel. The revenue that comes from your social media content might matter, but you gotta weigh against this other stuff. And if you already have a system, inserting something like this might be simple. I think with a lot of professionals that I see that are especially solopreneurs or like people with small teams and service business. It's, it's a lot of the time trying to copy what's working for other people because they don't really know where to start. Right. So I'm gonna go back to the Realtor example. Like, yeah, how to, uh, creating fun content so people can see. I have a house listing on, on Instagram. That's, that's fine. And showing your personality and engaging in that way. So people like, just like you, I think is, is totally good. But if you're not putting stuff out there that actually shows your experiment expertise. That's a huge, um, like it's just a huge loss of opportunity, especially if you're already posting stuff. So like, how can you start thinking about how some of the stuff you put out, um, actually lends itself to that expertise? Um, and the, a lot of the times I think people are looking more aesthetic, which I can understand. I'm a, I'm a millennial. Like, I know we all like these, like, really nice, you know, certain aesthetics, aesthetic, um, and sometimes I have to check myself too. Like, is this helping me get where I want to go if I'm spending hours on making this thing look pretty, um, you know, to get some eyeballs? You know, maybe if I just spent 20 minutes to think about, like, how do I really put together my, my insights and not just be trying to chase a trend or chase an algorithm. I'm going to start showing up perhaps a lot more seriously and competitively, um, than my, my peers. Right. So it depends where you are on that spectrum. Um, but I think spending too much time worrying about all the trends and all the advice if it's not in the algorithm. And the algorithm, like the algorithms are changing all the time where you need to be. And I don't want to discourage people, especially if they like to do it. But, um, you know, some of the most important, um, vetting that happens and the decision making that happens, especially if you have a high ticket service, it's really around like, why am I going to trust Ashley? You know, what's her judgment? How do I know she's done this before and can offer me, you know, the advice? Like so especially people in any advisory surfaces. Right. Like, of course I know she's got that judgment and can you give me the right guidance based on me? Right. So case studies and storytelling around experience is going to show a lot more than um, you know, dancing or whatever it's.

Gary Marra: But yeah, I mean, occasionally now you do have to focus on some esthetics because something is. Some things are visual. Right. You're a realtor, so certainly the visual aspect of selling a home is super important. Um, and other, other, um, you know what, um, hairstylists. I was thinking, I see a lot of great clips on there of just clips, literally figured, pardon the pun not intended, of haircuts and things like that. But that's, that's demonstrating what you want. So there, there is room for, for the visual in, um, certain areas. Right?

Ashley Smith: Yeah. And I'm, I'm definitely not going to discourage people who have momentum with what they're doing. Right. This is really specifically for folks who are, you know, that's just not their, their thing. It's just, it's. They don't want to spend their time on this, um, or you know, if you are doing it, but you want to level up and make sure that footprint is really showing the way you want. But the, the thing I think people aren't thinking about as much is like if you already follow someone on Facebook or Instagram or Wherever else on YouTube, then you're following that, those folks and you're seeing that content, um, to some degree anyhow. But if you're searching them because you don't really know, like you're trying to find out, you're, you're more than likely not even going to end up on these, these pages. Right. You're uh, Google in particular now is giving these AI overviews and so before they even land on whatever else you're doing, you're getting the summary as seen by Google. Like Google's gonna synthesize that info and so you know more and more this zero click. And that's a bit techy too, but

Gary Marra: like, oh, the zero.

Ashley Smith: You're just getting the information but you might not go back to, to the, the site where the information came from. Right. So um, that, that's the part I'm really um, hoping people think about and to your point, about polish and aesthetics. Yes. And depending on your business, of course it matters. But there's also something to be said about, um, I uh, think and this is more an opinion, so I could be wrong, but this, you know, we're seeing so much AI generated content, performers, perfection in marketing, perfection in posts, perfection in so many things even, even in video now. Right. Like, let's face it, there are YouTubers and tick tockers and different people out there that are not, they're AI generated people. We don't necessarily know it, it's going that direction. So things that aren't perfectly perfect I think will resonate with people knowing it's human. But if the reality, the reality, the authenticity, I know that's overused but there's, I'd be curious to see in five, 10 years, you know, what is really working. Ah, in that regard.

Gary Marra: Uh, yeah, I think it's going to go back and I think it already is going back in the, the other direction for sure. So um, it's like, it's like sugar, right? There's the artificial stuff and it's just that stuff is awful. Um, so, all right, so we're out of just about out of time on, um, the traditional interview segment of it. But let's ask you the closer question. If a leader listening right now knows their re world reputation is definitely stronger than that digital footprint, what's one thing you want them to do in the next 30 days? To start closing that gap that you talk about.

Ashley Smith: Yeah. Start recording your conversations however you're comfortable doing, whether that's by yourself, with a team, with a partner. Get, uh, on pod match, like if you have.

Gary Marra: You're welcome, Alex.

Ashley Smith: Yes. If you, if you have extra expertise in something and can create a simple profile about what you know, uh, putting yourself out there to talk about those things, you're easily positioning yourself by committing, you know, one or two 30 minute interviews a month and getting. Talking about what you know, talking about what you know. You don't have to set anything up. And, and though being on other people's platforms is really like the number one thing you could do. So I would. Even though that's the number one thing, um, in terms of top tier, if you feel like that's the easiest path, then I like just lean in for sure.

Gary Marra: No, absolutely. Now I started, I just started a blog and I started my own articles and I was writing them myself and, uh, I started doing top 3 cx articles of the week. And then I decided I'd rather just talk about this stuff and here I am. So, yeah. All right, so great job. Uh, it is time to hit the segments. Let's move to does it Hold Water? All right, everybody, it is time for does it hold Water? My favorite segment. This is when I asked our guest to be our resident expert witness for the day channel their inner Mona Lisa, Vito, so to speak. And today, Ashley, we are going back to your roots a little. We are delving into the world of real estate and the defense attorney. I'm paraphrasing, the defense attorney says the traditional full service buyer's agent is not going to survive in its current form. Listings are public, pricing tools are better, and many buyers already know what they want. Before they call anyone, Consumers are asking, what am I really paying for? The era of automatically just paying for a full server. Full service buyer's agent is ending. Does a fence case hold water?

Ashley Smith: I think it holds some water. Um, by the way, I love realtors. Uh, they're my friends. They're most of my friends. They're most of the people I look up to. My spouse is a realtor. I was built for a long, long Time. Um, but I think that the role and value proposition is changing. I do think that um, the elite, uh, the like top tier professionals will have a place for buyer's agency. And I, this is getting a little nerdy but every um, every market's a little different in terms of like regulatory stuff. Like I know where we are and I think actually in the US like having buyer's agency is more and more um, becoming like a mandatory thing. Uh, like where I live you can't actually legally work with the listing agent and have agency. So I know that's unique. Um, but because they're trying to protect the consumer. That said, how does that person get paid and how much do they get paid? Right? And what are they doing? And so I do think um, that with a lot of these changes, like people were freaking out when listings started going online, right? And I actually started working not that long after, like I started in the business. Not that long after all this tech really started becoming the norm and people were freaking out about listings being on like realtor.com or realtor CA and like what's the value proposition? And um, but I think that that comparison is hard to make today because today people can get a lot of stuff. So you know, with Google's announcement about their big um, how they're changing and driving their search engine towards AI results versus like all these top links. The other thing they announced uh, in their recent uh, big conference is that they're going to start bringing Google's uh, agents. Uh, and by agents I don't mean real estate agents but I mean agents that I know. I feel like I always have to like differentiate but they're gonna start rolling out uh, Google agents to be able to do work for the consumer, for the searcher in the background. And this in my mind if, if it's any good, eliminates a lot of like the techiness um, that's needed to adopt this type of um, tool. So like I think a lot of people who are working with AI agents right now, they're kind of like they're leaning in, they're early adopter, right, for the most part. Um, but once it's on Google it's like you don't really have to understand how it all works. You're just, and the example they used is around real estate. So they said you're going to be able to like put in exactly what you're looking for, um, you know, what criteria you have and it can be very specific. So like think about it. Google owns Google Maps, like You start talking about anything related to a um, geography. So like where schools are, where hospitals are, where your um, senior care facility is, where your mom is staying. Like there's all these things that you can now start putting in. Like I want to buy this, this type of property with at ah, under this price. Um, I need, I, it needs to be pet friendly, whatever that means. Like there's so many things now and then the Google agents can go out and start like dinging you and updating you and behind the scenes bringing you those listings things. And so I, from my experience the, the um, the data uh, even for the practitioners isn't that flexible yet. Like we're, I say we like the, the practitioners aren't really even able to use their systems as um, intuitively as Google might be able to. We'll see. Right. We'll see how it rolls out. Uh, but so you know, will the consumers still want someone representing them with like fiduciary um, duties with insurance. Right. If something goes wrong they can get sued uh, versus self representing. Um, you know there's all these other things but um, I, I'm telling my, my friends now like be careful. The market sucks where we are right now. Uh, if you don't write a sound contract like people can run these contracts through AI and be like help me pick out the flaws so I can get out of this deal. Right. And then what does that mean for you? Are you gonna get sued? So uh, you know there's all these things that are happening. I do believe in the value of a guided expert. Uh, or like someone that can really help you make decisions. But there's gonna be a lot of people who don't need it or who want to pay way less.

Gary Marra: Yeah.

Ashley Smith: So you gotta level up and that's again why you have to show your authority, show why you're good, show why someone will want to work with you rather than self represent or go hire the cheap person or whatever.

Gary Marra: I knew you would tie it in at some point. There you go. So. But I've, I mean look, I don't know anything about selling real estate purchase. I mean we've been here a while in this house but I noticed in the neighborhood there's uh, was a realtor who moved in here. He lived here. He would move houses like that in a week or two. And I know it's subject to the market but when you see you sleep, people are pointing back there where the house was. I'm gonna sell it myself for a sell by homeowner and it Sat there and it sat there and it sat there and these people think they're geniuses and can do it themselves yourself. I mean, you have to be really good. You have to know what you're doing. But, um, I, I, yeah, so I, I don't see it. I, I just like, I. Look, we on this show talk about how AI and technology should enhance the experiences, not replace. So that's why I asked you that when I knew it would be a good one. And it was.

Ashley Smith: Hey, I appreciate, I appreciate it. I, I just, I do implore people to like, uh, just be paying attention to these changes, even if you're not using these tools. Right. But to understand, like, how the world is evolving, I think it matters.

Narrator: It does. Awesome.

Gary Marra: Uh, job. Let's go to chip shots. All right, everybody, it is time for chip shots. These are my shorter form questions. More personal, yet still professional in nature. We try to go three or four, time permitting. Ashley. We always ask the book question to start. What is one book that has influenced you? Professional, personal, you name it at an

Ashley Smith: impact you, I'm gonna be real with you. Like, I barely read. I, I, I love it. I, I used to be in, uh, you know, I loved reading when I was young, but my brain, I'm mostly into like podcast listening, etc. But one book I will share because you asked that I did read and that I gift people, um, so real. It's called Fast Like a girl, uh, by Dr. Mindy Peltz. And it's, it's just around, uh, intermittent fasting. As this is totally off topic, um, but for women and, and how, um, certain things can impact a lot of things around your health and your mood and your energy, but particularly for women and how it's different than the bro advice you might get online because we have hormones and cycles and so we have to do it differently. And I, it's when I lean in, I go back to that book. Right now I'm not like, I'm not doing what I should do, but when I do, I find it's really effective. So I've gifted it to other women and they've found good values. So if you're interested in feeling better, maybe losing a few pounds and being healthy, like not health advice, but it's still worth a read. I like that.

Gary Marra: No, I've heard about it. I haven't ventured there. I don't think. I'm not one that could fast, but, um, I certainly am always looking to shed a few pounds on the dad bod. So thank you. And my Book reading has diminished significantly after the kids, but I've been trying to get back into it. You know why? Because I get all these great books recommended to me every week or two.

Ashley Smith: I have a. I have a big shelf of all these really impressive books that I bought because I want to be really impressive. But then I don't read them.

Gary Marra: Oh, okay. But now I'm one that reads. This is great. I read three or four chapters. I'm 40, 50, 60, maybe even 100 pages into it. Something interesting comes along. So I just. I actually just cleaned up, uh, by my nightstand, and I had, like, 10 books there that were as halfway through. So I. All right, we're gonna focus on. It's Summertime, a baseball book, and one, uh, customer experience book we're gonna go with. All right. That was recommended on the show, actually. All right, next one. This. I got no idea where you're gonna go with this one, so, uh, the leader question. If you could spend the day shadowing a current leader, real please, uh, in any profession, any industry, who would it be and what would you hope to learn?

Ashley Smith: I was gonna try to give you, like, a really thoughtful, like, person that, that, that would make me look really, I don't know, intelligent. But my. I'm a. I'm a big fan of Gary V. Gary Vaynerchuk. Uh, he's. He. He has a bunch of companies. He's an entrepreneur. Um, he's. Many people might find him annoying, uh, but I adore him. Um, he talks a lot about business. He talks about the attention economy. He talks about, in fact, like, I feel like what I'm talking about is sort of counter to what he says, but it's. It's. He really has his finger on the pulse with, like, where things are, um, in business and, um, marketing, branding, attention and. And any. I. I adore him. I've met him. But, um, I have. But it. But I haven't spent a day following him around, and I would like to do that. Um, so, you know, I just like to see how he actually keeps up because he's in, like, 20 different places at any given time.

Narrator: Right.

Ashley Smith: And I don't. I don't know. I don't know how people have that bandwidth.

Gary Marra: So I. Neither do I know entrepreneur. It's a perfect, Perfect, um, uh, reference and perfect person to model and follow. Um, entrepreneurs are great, uh, especially for the show, but that. It's exactly the same thing. They usually got 20 million different things going on, and I don't know how the heck they do it. Um, I couldn't, but they do. And that would be the interesting thing to do to spend the day with them. Awesome. Great one. All right, all right. I love this. The failure question, um, it just, I've had so many wonderful answers about this. Is there a particular failure early in your career that taught you a valuable lesson that you said still today?

Ashley Smith: Yeah, I think, um, I didn't know early in my adult life that I have adhd. Maybe that's too much, uh, information. No, in, in, in hindsight, like, um, I am a very interest focused person. I've always been sort of high performing, but I can have a tendency and have had a tendency to um, start things and not follow through. And, and I think that's, you know, can be a beautiful, ah, part of the journey because you get to touch a lot of things and, and um, learn from a lot of different people. But I think if I knew more about myself back then, I would have been a little more intentional on where I was more consistent. Um, so there's not like one specific example, uh, but there's a trend, you know, that I've seen in my past that ah, man, if I had only done this for another year, you know, I was in real estate for a long time, so I was doing real estate for most of my adult career. Um, but like where I leaned in, like where I focused my time, what market I was trying to work it with or whatever, but that, like really picking something that I could stick with and even if I was doing other things, uh, um, uh, in addition, still having those like certain baseline things, um, I would have, yeah. You know, I, A lot of lost opportunity, lost revenue probably because, you know, a few years later, you see, oh man, if I had done that, like I saw something early, it was there, but I didn't, I didn't stick it out. Right. Um, and that's honestly coming back to what I'm talking about today. Like these things can compound. You don't have to overdo it. You don't have to stress yourself. You don't have to like make it so it's not um, sustainable. But like picking one or two things that you can do, um, and with a regular bit of consistency and over time I think it can have a huge impact. So, like, looking back, yeah, big time.

Gary Marra: Uh, no. And honestly, ADHD I think is misunderstood by a lot of folks. And a lot of folks are realizing in their adulthood that, oh, wow, that that's what was going on. And uh, that has happened right here in this household. So I uh, appreciate you mentioning that and let's raise a little bit of awareness about that. It's something to think about and we have learned a whole lot about ADHD uh, in the past few years. So. Awesome. Great one. All right, this is the final question and this is going to be an interesting one for you. What is one decision making principle that guides you when the stakes are, are high?

Ashley Smith: I think curiosity is the main thing for me. Um, curiosity, trying to stay open just generally, um, in a variety of different scenarios can be so helpful. And I, I think if I look back at moments where I could have done better, I probably could have been more curious. And what that means is like asking more questions. Am I asking the right question? Right. I think we can get stuck on things sometimes and, and you know, put our hands up or feel like we're up against the wall. Like are we really? Am I asking myself the right questions to find the right solution here? And so I find curiosity, whether you're in a challenge or whether you're facing opportunity like that part, um, can really help make a difference on um, like it can make the, the, the biggest difference of um, you know, how you make decisions and what kind of, of um, learning you're able to do to be able to have um, stronger foundation generally. And it helps you I think with people, um, right. When you're curious with people helps your relationships help you, helps you be more likable.

Gary Marra: I think so it does actually that there's, there's science behind that. Believe it or not. Uh, we talked a little bit about that on, on the show. But you're absolutely right. That is ah, a proven and discussed method. And um, it does have happen and it's also. We talk about the, the disc profiles, um, the. When somebody's a, a uh, yellow and eye. A high eye that they're so likable. They're talking, they're smiling. My guess is you definitely, you're probably high in the eye. I don't know if you do the disc profiles, but I think you're definitely um, a yellow. But it does absolutely, uh, it, it absolutely does. So that is a great one. That's a very insightful uh, answer to that one. I never even thought of that one. So great job. Awesome. Ashley, thank you for being such a great guest. Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you?

Ashley Smith: Yeah. Uh, if you are on social, I'm kind of everywhere, uh, under the handle. Ashley Smith now. Um, you can head over to my website. I don't know if you'll be linking it in the show notes. But, um, if you head there, you can see a lot more about what I'm doing and what I'm talking about, what I'm offering. Um, there's also a, um, um, a self assessment tool that's there where you can kind of. It can help just guide you and walk you through. Like, where are you looking today in terms of your proof online? Um, it's nothing crazy, but it just helps you, like, take a few minutes and reflect on it and gives you a little bit of tips on how to do that. Um, yeah, and I am, like you said, I have, uh, my stuff coming out on audio. I'm walking the walk. So the podcast is out there. Show your proof and the YouTube channel and all of that. So I'm everywhere. It depends where you want to be.

Gary Marra: So the podcast is on all audio and YouTube. Awesome.

Ashley Smith: It is, Yeah.

Gary Marra: I highly recommend it by the way. Um, sorry, video and YouTube for podcasts because that's where it's. A lot of people are finding podcasts and the shorts and things like that. So that's another way of getting out there. So awesome. Great job. Thank you again for being here today and thank you all for watching and listening to your customer success. If you are listening on audio, don't forget I have the YouTube videos. And if you're watching on video, don't forget the audio is available on all major platforms. Thank you so much for watching today. I'll be back with more CX leaders, customer success leaders and like I say, a few tricks up my sleeve. You know, I got them coming for you. Um, great job. Thanks again. Bye for now.

Narrator: That's a wrap. Thank you so much for tuning in today. We hope you found something insightful that will enhance your experiences and drive your success. If you enjoy the episode, please leave a review and share your thoughts to help us improve the show. Don't forget to head on over to maracxlb.com for more ways to connect with me and learn more about experience management. Until next time, I'm Gary Mara. Working hard for your customer and your success.