174 - How to work as a founder

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Speaker 1: Champ Consultants is an award winning independent firm of highly 2 - > experienced qualified accountants and tax advisors based in Caterham, providing 3 - > a fully comprehensive range of accountancy. 4 - >

Speaker 2: And tax services. 5 - >

Speaker 1: If you would like simple but creative answers to your 6 - > tax problems, called Champ Consultants your business partner on one 7 - > double eighty three three four nine three hundred. 8 - >

Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to your business hour with Me Chantelle. 9 - > And this morning I'm joined in the studio with Mark. 10 - >

Speaker 2: Good morning, Mark Chantelle. 11 - >

Speaker 3: So let's find out who Mark is. So Mark has 12 - > thirty years of high level leadership under his belt. Mark 13 - > knows exactly what it takes to succeed in the B 14 - > to B space. As the founder of Performance Method, he 15 - > acts as a strategic partner and fractional commercial director to 16 - > leaders look in to refine their revenue, operations and commercial strategy. 17 - > His expertise is routine in real world results, most notably 18 - > scaling a Surrey based recruitment and training business into a 19 - > global entity with the presence in Australia and Ireland. He 20 - > does have a bit of spare time, and in that 21 - > spare time, he's a keen tennis player general sports fan 22 - > and a long suffering follower of Tottenham Hotspur. I'm not 23 - > even going to repeat that again. However, his most important 24 - > role is at home where he is the proud father 25 - > currently doing the wonderful world win of GCSC season with 26 - > his daughter. And he has just told me she's not 27 - > got long to go. So I don't know if she's listening, 28 - > but good luck to the last few exams you've got. 29 - > So Mark, tell us, performance method is your business? Tell 30 - > us how did performance method start about? What is it 31 - > the performance method actually does and how does it start about? 32 - >

Speaker 4: Okay, so performance method is it sits in the leadership 33 - > advisory practice space. Working with company I have got revenues 34 - > up to probably about five million, they employ fifty staff, 35 - > and what I effectively do is I help those founders 36 - > that are struggling with revenue, they're struggling with their sales team, 37 - > they're struggling maybe with marketing, they're struggling with if it's sales, 38 - > hiring the right people. And they would use me to 39 - > help build systems and architect the right structures and processes 40 - > to allow their organizations to grow. So they're typically the 41 - > founders that are sat wondering how they're going to grow 42 - > revenue and how they should do it and who could 43 - > help them, and they bring me in as that fractional 44 - > because they're often businesses that can't afford and don't have 45 - > the resource and money to employ a full time commercial director, 46 - > so they bring me on a fractional basis where I 47 - > embed myself inside the organization on one to four days 48 - > a month as part of the team really to help them. 49 - >

Speaker 3: And once you go in, how long you are normally 50 - > in Therefore. 51 - >

Speaker 4: I would say depends on the assignment and what it 52 - > is I'm looking to do. You know, there's a client 53 - > I'm working with where the initial assignment is six months 54 - > and it's very much building systems out and then hiring 55 - > someone to do the job so to get the business 56 - > a position where they can then have a sales leader. 57 - > And then there are other assignments where we've got growth 58 - > plans to hit by twenty thirty, so my role is 59 - > to be in the business until that point, until that's 60 - > been achieved. So it is contextual. Certainly, I've not been 61 - > in a situation where I've been talking to someone and 62 - > I've thought it's going to take anything less than six 63 - > months than most of the time, it's at least twelve. 64 - >

Speaker 3: Right, And so how did you get into this field? 65 - > Tell us at your background, how it will start. 66 - >

Speaker 4: So I left university in nineteen ninety seven and with 67 - > a relatively mediocre history degree. And what do you do 68 - > with a history degree if you don't want to be 69 - > a history teacher? No offense to history teachers. So I 70 - > wanted to get into sales. I wanted to get into 71 - > sales for the reasons that people do, sometimes slightly shallow reasons, but. 72 - >

Speaker 2: That was my aim. 73 - >

Speaker 4: And I went for interviews with lots of different companies, 74 - > recruitment companies and companies direct and through that process I 75 - > ended up meeting the founder of a recruitment company based 76 - > in Egham called BMS, which was very very small at 77 - > the time, ten to fifteen people. And despite having a 78 - > dreadful interview with the founder and leaving their thinking I'm 79 - > never going to speak to that person again. How awful 80 - > did I perform in that interview, I've got a call 81 - > the next day saying I actually thought you were really 82 - > good and I'm looking for a trainee recruiter, so would 83 - > you be interested? And I thought, okay, why not? And 84 - > I went through an interview process after that and got 85 - > off of the job and I decided to take it 86 - > for various different reasons, and life is often about timing luck. 87 - > Maybe it was probably one of the best decisions I made, 88 - > because I ended up staying there twenty three years. 89 - >

Speaker 2: And we grew the company from. 90 - >

Speaker 4: Less than twenty people in an office to two hundred 91 - > and I think nine offices at our peak. And of course, 92 - > as part of that journey, then offered opportunities and your 93 - > role grows, and because I joined quite early on and 94 - > the founder was really a mentor, I was offered equity 95 - > in the business and became a director and that was 96 - > the start that the majority of my career, so it's 97 - > been running commercial sales teams in a recruitment and then 98 - > training business. We moved it into a training business, and 99 - > then in twenty nineteen, as part of a management buy out, 100 - > I moved away and got into software sales. So I 101 - > was a sales director for software businesses for the last 102 - > five six years, which then leads me to performance method 103 - > and I was looking at what did I want to 104 - > do as I turned fifty For the next however long 105 - > I've got working and the thing that's always kept me 106 - > interested in sales and business and management and leadership is 107 - > helping people. That's why I do what I do. I 108 - > think in another life I would may have been a teacher. 109 - > So and I love small businesses. My father was a greengrocer. 110 - > It sounds a little bit kierstarmer, doesn't it it Danes 111 - > right now. 112 - >

Speaker 3: Thankfully he's not a salesperson, so all right that. 113 - >

Speaker 2: It's definitely he's definitely not a sales He's probably listening. 114 - >

Speaker 4: So I you know, But when you grow up in 115 - > the household of a small business owner. My mum also 116 - > was a financial advisor, should her own financial advisoring event. 117 - > I think it gives you a sense of what it's 118 - > like to be a small business owner. And I think 119 - > it that small business are the backbone of the country. 120 - > I think they get overlooked and they get a raw deal. 121 - > But notwithstanding that, I was thinking, right, what can I do? 122 - > What can I offer to the types of companies that 123 - > I love, which are small businesses? And I thought there 124 - > was a gap in this support of how do you 125 - > grow a sales operation. There's lots of coaches, business coaches, 126 - > consultancies but which offer and do great things. But having 127 - > something that works fractionally that's embedded inside the organization, helping 128 - > the founder do things, whether that be helping them with 129 - > their CRM or helping them in actual meetings with clients. 130 - > I thought it was a gap. So I got to 131 - > a point where I thought, right, this is what I'm 132 - > going to do, and off I went. 133 - >

Speaker 3: And that was twenty nineteen. 134 - >

Speaker 4: Then well it was well, no, it's twenty. 135 - >

Speaker 3: No. 136 - >

Speaker 2: Last year was when I set it up. 137 - >

Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so I was doing I was leading software firms, 138 - > or one particular software firm for the last four and 139 - > a half years. And then how I got into what 140 - > I was doing now started when I was being referred 141 - > work side hustles they call it from people that knew me, 142 - > and I started doing this, and I guess in the 143 - > last eighteen months I was starting to think about next step, 144 - > and then an opportunity came to do it full time, 145 - > which was nine ten months ago, and that's when I decided, right, 146 - > I think I'm ready to now do this, and that's 147 - > when I launched the company. 148 - >

Speaker 3: Exciting. Yeah, so having launched Performance Method, You've obviously been 149 - > involved in, especially like the recruitment business, because like you said, 150 - > you were there and for twenty three years, you've helped 151 - > it grow and everything else. But is there anything specifically 152 - > when you've started Performance Method that you think to yourself, 153 - > I wish I knew that when I started that I 154 - > might know. 155 - >

Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, there's two things, and the first is and 156 - > this isn't that I didn't know it. I just didn't 157 - > quite appreciate it to the extent that I think it's true. 158 - > So the power of in person networking. When you work 159 - > in an organization that has a marketing function and a 160 - > sales team that you're managing and leading, and it's an 161 - > established business, you have a lot of people that are 162 - > doing new business development by doing things like cold calling 163 - > or email outreach LinkedIn messaging. Then you've got events you 164 - > go to with a lovely shiny stand. Performance Method is 165 - > a company, but it's effectively me. I am the brand. 166 - > So not appreciating quickly enough how important it was to 167 - > be networking in the right places and to do it 168 - > consistently and do it well. So that's been my big 169 - > lesson and something I've really focused on in the last 170 - > I would say, three months. But I probably you know, 171 - > would have done that from the get you know, because 172 - > I started out, I was thinking right I've going to 173 - > get a target list of companies, I'm going to send 174 - > them messages, I'm gonna start calling them okay, And I 175 - > don't think that is I think that's got its place, 176 - > but that wasn't the right thing to do at that time. 177 - > And then the second thing is maybe focusing too much 178 - > on the stuff that is the fineries, like the brochures 179 - > and the business cards and the things that they have 180 - > their place, but actually they're not as important as you think. 181 - > You know, really, and whilst you kind of know these 182 - > things you need, sometimes when you're doing this, this journey 183 - > of starting on your own, you have these things you 184 - > do that I think as safety blankets. 185 - >

Speaker 2: They make you feel as if. 186 - >

Speaker 4: Right, that's going to make me feel better, it's going 187 - > to make me more successful, And I think reality is 188 - > that isn't the case. In what I do, the most 189 - > important thing is meeting people face to face, and it's 190 - > chemistry and connection. Because I could offer the best advice 191 - > and have the best frameworks and methodologies and all sorts, 192 - > but if there's not a fit with the person and 193 - > there's no chemistry or alignment, then it's not really go anywhere. 194 - > And it's that classic case of it's the messenger, not 195 - > the message, not bringing it back to Sakis Stamer. 196 - >

Speaker 3: But yeah, and it's a definite fact of people buying 197 - > people in this situation. And if you don't have that 198 - > jail between, especially in your business, but you're going to 199 - > come in and talk directly with the founder and you 200 - > might be doing something with the founder that they might 201 - > not be comfortable to actually do, but they realize they 202 - > need to do something. But it's like stepping out their comfort. 203 - > You have to almost have that good relationship with them, 204 - > otherwise they're going to be like, well, I don't really 205 - > want to do that, because that's not do you know 206 - > what I mean? They have to be able to have 207 - > to trust you, don't they They do. 208 - >

Speaker 2: No like and trust. 209 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, And one of the things that I find frustrating 210 - > is this, you know, is being this person that is 211 - > the external. You know, you could call yourself a coach, advisor, 212 - > fractional consultant. You know, you're effectively an outsider that's being 213 - > employed to look inside someone else's business that they've built 214 - > and they care perfinitely about. Right, So you've got to 215 - > do that with a level of tact and discernment as 216 - > opposed to just going and then pointing out all the 217 - > things that you think are awful or they should be 218 - > or could be doing better. And you've also got to 219 - > remember that there's a phrase that people often say in 220 - > my position, and they'll say, right, don't work in the business, 221 - > work on the business. And you think, well, having been 222 - > in that situation, that's a lot easier said than done. 223 - > You know, it sounds great on a webinar or in 224 - > a presentation, but how do you actually get there? You know, 225 - > if you're a business owner of under five million and 226 - > I come in and say, well, you know, okay, but 227 - > how am I doing that? And I guess that's one 228 - > of the things that I try to achieve is is 229 - > that it's not a question that of that that could 230 - > be an end goal that we get to. But whilst 231 - > we're doing that, what can I help deliver that I 232 - > can take off from your plate and show you how 233 - > to do that helps you? 234 - >

Speaker 3: And also I think that that saying of don't work 235 - > too much in the business and work on the business. 236 - > What I find as a founder as well is that 237 - > when I hear it, I think to myself, but there's 238 - > a reason why I went into this business in the 239 - > first place. And the reason I went into the business 240 - > is because I like doing what I actually do. So 241 - > if I don't get to do it anymore, am I 242 - > still going to love my business? And there's that sort 243 - > of tech that's that sort of leeway in between, isn't it? 244 - > Because you don't want to be a founder that doesn't 245 - > do what you originally wanted to do and why you 246 - > do what you do it. So there is always that 247 - > you can do on the business, but maybe not all 248 - > the time all the time because you need to go 249 - > back to doing what you love exactly. So in your business, 250 - > what would you think to yourself as being one of 251 - > the most rewarding aspects and then we'll look at a 252 - > challenging aspect, So. 253 - >

Speaker 4: In terms of what in terms of what I currently do? Yeah, 254 - > so I think the most rewarding thing is seeing you 255 - > have an impact. So you know, this year, I can 256 - > of one company where we've been building out metrics for 257 - > the sales team, making them understand the importance of consistent 258 - > daily activities that lead to revenue, using the CRM as 259 - > that sort of single source of truth that I talk 260 - > about in terms of right, it's not in the CRM, 261 - > it didn't happen, but being disciplined and consistent around that 262 - > and seeing the results and the numbers improve. So that 263 - > is the most rewarding. I think there's also something rewarding 264 - > about working with people and founders where the relationship evolves 265 - > to a point whereby I wouldn't say you're friends, but 266 - > there's a connection there where you've got an understanding of 267 - > what else is going on in their lives, family, all 268 - > sorts of things, and you become you know, they advise, 269 - > they ask for advice on things outside of the scope 270 - > of work, which I find rewarding in that I like 271 - > people and I like to understand what's going on, and 272 - > I actually think that we sometimes dismiss what's going on 273 - > in people's outside of work lives that does actually. 274 - >

Speaker 2: Impact their in work lives. 275 - >

Speaker 4: And I think that's the same whether you're a founder 276 - > of a business or an employee. So I find that 277 - > rewarding as well. You know, ultimately it comes back to 278 - > that making a difference, helping people. What about challenging then, well, 279 - > the challenging thing can be I guess we'll label it 280 - > as conflict, but I don't mean conflict in a a 281 - > raw argument or disagreement and you're go into counseling type conflict. 282 - > I mean conflict in terms of pointing out something that 283 - > you know you need to tell them, but they don't 284 - > want to hear because they're not in a position yet 285 - > where they're ready to receive the information because it might 286 - > not be what they want to hear, but it's actually 287 - > the best thing for them. So just giving them what 288 - > you see from your perspective, and it's always from my perspective, 289 - > doesn't mean. 290 - >

Speaker 2: It's the truth. 291 - >

Speaker 4: It's what I see and how I interpret it, what's 292 - > wrong and what needs to change. That might be uncomfortable 293 - > for the founder because if you are working with a 294 - > business for that's been around for twenty years and I've 295 - > got one that's been established for twenty years, they've built 296 - > up lots of this is how we do things, and 297 - > that's great because being in a business for twenty three years, 298 - > I was that person, well, that's how we do things, 299 - > and it probably was the reason why the thing was 300 - > done that way ten years ago. That might not be 301 - > fit for purpose now. But of course, when it is 302 - > your own business, you are protective and precious about it. 303 - > And I think when you go and work in a 304 - > business that isn't founder led, So I've worked in the 305 - > last five years for a private equity back business, and 306 - > you work for a CEO that is ultimately responsible for 307 - > investors and shareholders. It's a very different dynamic, you know that. 308 - > I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but they're 309 - > almost a gun for hire. They're there to get return 310 - > for the investors. They have a very different mindset to 311 - > you would in your so and that. 312 - >

Speaker 3: Must be quite different because obviously when you're talking to 313 - > a founder, like you say, they have that passion, they 314 - > have that it's almost like their child, isn't it. Especially ye, 315 - > especially if you've had a business for twenty ord years, 316 - > it becomes your child. And yes, there are things that 317 - > you've always done it that way and that's the way 318 - > you do it. And then somebody comes along and says, oh, 319 - > I don't think we should do it like that anymore. 320 - > I think we should do it like this. You can 321 - > take it personally as if to say why it was 322 - > what I was doing wrong before then, which is obviously 323 - > not the case. It's just technology evolves. AI comes in 324 - > and it's like, well, actually, do you know what if 325 - > we introduce this piece of system in that might reduced 326 - > that time, which means that somebody else can then go 327 - > out and get more clients in or get more business in, 328 - > which enables the growth to happen. But because AI is 329 - > a new thing example, people are always scared of something 330 - > that's new as well, aren't they. 331 - >

Speaker 4: They are, and AI is a classic classic example. I 332 - > mean I get asked about AI on a regular basis 333 - > doing things like this and also in events and stuff. 334 - >

Speaker 2: And of course. 335 - >

Speaker 4: We've probably overestimated what it can do for a short 336 - > term and lots of things that it's been said that 337 - > he's going to destroy I think isn't the case, and 338 - > we probably will probably underestimate what it will do for 339 - > us in the long term. We've got no idea where 340 - > it will be in five years. But what I did 341 - > think is what AI has done as it's meant that 342 - > the need for in person human connection has never been 343 - > more important. And so coming back to part of my role, 344 - > I think it is really spending a lot of time 345 - > understanding and diagnosing and asking questions and listening before I 346 - > ever do any sort of right. This is what we 347 - > should do, because if you don't really understand something and 348 - > the reason why it exists and what it actually is, 349 - > there to achieve, you can't suggest the right path of action. 350 - > So it's a bit like going to the doctor, isn't 351 - > it really. 352 - >

Speaker 3: Hopefully not? 353 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, but the doctor's there to ask ask you questions, 354 - > I understand and diagnose, and my role is no different 355 - > in that. And it could be that AI is a 356 - > solution for something, but it might be well maybe it isn't. 357 - >

Speaker 3: It's not always the answer, is it. So yeah, So 358 - > your clients, you said you sort of work for clients 359 - > who are up to five million, fifty stuff, But you 360 - > must have like smaller end of the clients. They're not 361 - > all that top end. So what's your like like average 362 - > number or whatever. I mean, I suppose it's any clients 363 - > with the growth aspect. 364 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, it is where they're aut on that journey and 365 - > what they're looking to do as opposed to the revenue number. 366 - > You're right there, but they're typically they're typically in the 367 - > one and a half million, trying to get to three 368 - > or trying to get to two. You know that that's 369 - > where they're typically at, and they're typically at around twenty staff. 370 - > Depends on the type of business, because I do work 371 - > with quite a lot of software companies that can get 372 - > to revenue quite quickly. Yeah, but on a lean of fashion, 373 - > but that's where they tend. They tend to sit. 374 - >

Speaker 3: And from an age of clients, So how long roughly 375 - > are clients established for before they start thinking to themselves, oh, 376 - > we need marketing to help us. 377 - >

Speaker 4: Well the company I saw, yes, two companies this week. 378 - > One's fourteen years old, the other is much longer, for 379 - > forty forty five years old now, and they're looking to 380 - > do different things. One is looking to scale, to invest 381 - > and to get to get more investment and to then 382 - > go go again because they've got ambitions to get to 383 - > ten fifteen, you know. And then the other one is 384 - > simply a founder that is trying to exit and they 385 - > need the revenue to be in a different place to 386 - > realize their valuation and what they want to get out 387 - > of it. So yeah, very slightly different scenarios. I also 388 - > work with bootstrap startups. 389 - >

Speaker 2: You know. 390 - >

Speaker 4: I've got one company at the moment that I'm working 391 - > with that's literally come up with a software platform, coded it, 392 - > brought it to market and is a very talented technical 393 - > person and sort of consultant in her field in the 394 - > manufacturing space, but find sales in the idea of growing 395 - > revenue daunting, which is a a lot of people do. 396 - > So yeah, they're on a very different, different journey. So 397 - > I think it comes down down to aspiration and what 398 - > it is a're trying to achieve here. 399 - >

Speaker 3: And I think that, like you say, that person who's 400 - > got the coded product, you are very good at what 401 - > you do. You know what you do, but having to 402 - > go out and sell that to somebody is really stepping 403 - > out of your comfort zone. And I know this doesn't 404 - > sound lovely, and it probably doesn't sound lovely saying it, 405 - > but it's almost like you're selling yourself, yes, doesn't it. 406 - > And it doesn't come natural to us to go out 407 - > and sell ourselves if we're not in that sales field. Yes, 408 - > And so trying to do that as a person is 409 - > quite hard, really, isn't it. 410 - >

Speaker 2: It is? 411 - >

Speaker 4: And it's a great point because people, when I set 412 - > this thing up on my own, said, well, you've been 413 - > in that sort of role for you'll find it easy, 414 - > that will come. 415 - >

Speaker 2: Well, that's not the case. I mean. 416 - >

Speaker 4: I remember going to my first Chamber of Commerce, sorry 417 - > Chamber of Commerce networking event last year at Elstreet Studios, 418 - > and I was nervous because I had imposter syndrome a 419 - > little bit, as in, well, I've never been in I 420 - > felt uncomfortable, and there is something different about me as 421 - > a founder on my own, selling myself or you know, 422 - > positioning myself than there is if you're certainly then if 423 - > you're employed by a private equity backed software business or 424 - > you know, even that's the recruitment days. You know, we 425 - > built a company of two hundred people, that that's an entity. 426 - >

Speaker 3: That's that's good, you know, so good size. 427 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, so you kind of you do, you go, you 428 - > go through all those things of doubt, what if people 429 - > don't like me? What if I say something and they 430 - > just mis understand it? And you go through all those 431 - > things regardless of whether you've got loads of experience or not. 432 - > And I use that, I think to try and understand 433 - > the company that I'm talking to, because I'm thinking, well, 434 - > if I feel that with my experience, imagine what they're 435 - > feeling where they're they're a very talented technical person or 436 - > consultant or product person, but they're as your as your 437 - > point there that they're this is. 438 - >

Speaker 3: New, yeah totally. So how did you feel them walking 439 - > into your because effectively that's every person's nightmare, isn't it 440 - > walking into your first networking event, not knowing what to do, 441 - > what to say, and will people like me? Will they 442 - > like my product? And that sort of stuff. How did 443 - > you overcome that? 444 - >

Speaker 2: Well? 445 - >

Speaker 4: I did certain things that I tell my daughter to 446 - > do when she has these same doubts. And it's quite 447 - > interesting watching your child grow up and then when they're 448 - > doing exams and having all those sort of things that 449 - > you've recognizing yourself that you have to as you get older, 450 - > you think you're trying and retrain. So yeah, I mean 451 - > I I think you I reframed the opportunities as learning 452 - > as learnings, you know. 453 - >

Speaker 2: So right, this is me. 454 - >

Speaker 4: Learning more about the market that I'm going into, learning 455 - > more about how I position what I do, what mission 456 - > statement lands, how I position what I do? Do people 457 - > get it? Is it the right room for me to 458 - > be in the to the start? 459 - >

Speaker 3: You know? 460 - >

Speaker 4: Again, if ever you've got periods of self doubt, I 461 - > always think to take a step back and then start 462 - > talking to yourself in the third person and think, well, okay, 463 - > would you listen to this advice from somebody else when 464 - > you're telling if they don't like me all that. 465 - >

Speaker 2: Sort of stuff. 466 - >

Speaker 4: So I do all those sort of things and of 467 - > course it's like everything isn't it. Things are never what 468 - > you build them up to be. You fear more in 469 - > imagination than you do in reality, and then the more 470 - > you do it, the more it just becomes second nature, definitely. 471 - >

Speaker 3: And I think sometimes we hype ourselves up to something 472 - > to be a lot worse than it actually is, don't 473 - > we And then actually we do it and it's like, oh, 474 - > wasn't actually that bad? 475 - >

Speaker 1: A Champ Consultants is an award winning independent firm of 476 - > highly experienced qualified accountants and tax advisors based thin Age, 477 - > providing a fully comprehensive range of accountancy and tax services. 478 - > If you would like simple but creative answers to your 479 - > tax problems, called Champ Consultants your business partner on one 480 - > double eighty three three four nine three hundred. 481 - >

Speaker 3: And welcome back to your business hour with me chan 482 - > TAU and Mark from Performance Methods. So if you're listening 483 - > to Mark and you're thinking to yourself, oh, I want 484 - > to find out a bit more about him, you can 485 - > find him on LinkedIn and that is Mark Millstead, m 486 - > I L S T ED and his website is Performance 487 - > method dot co dot uk. And I will repeat that 488 - > at the end anyway, just in case. So Mark, let's 489 - > talk about a scenario. Say I come to you. I'm 490 - > a founder, I've got a business. I know that like 491 - > you say, I want to grow the business. I come 492 - > to you for help. Talk me through. How do I 493 - > work with you? How does it all work? 494 - >

Speaker 2: Yeah? 495 - >

Speaker 4: Okay, So I first of all want to understand the 496 - > current state, but then also the direction. So I look 497 - > at a business in a framework way flexibly, so you've 498 - > got direction, revenue and operations. The direction is where you 499 - > want to get to him where you're going, and that's 500 - > where I want to spend most of my time initially 501 - > diagnosing and understanding that because what often happens is the 502 - > found has already got an idea of what they need 503 - > to fix, and nine times out of tenets we need 504 - > more sales, we need more new business, and that could 505 - > be that could be the answer for growth. I'm not 506 - > saying it's not, but there's often other things going on. 507 - > So the direction bit's important because I want to understand 508 - > from the start where your one three five year goals are, 509 - > what your objectives, and I want to understand your overall 510 - > sort of vision and mission and also values. 511 - >

Speaker 2: Because if I don't. 512 - >

Speaker 4: Understand that, then when we get into the bits around 513 - > building pipeline generation systems and hiring people and all sorts 514 - > of things like that, it will be misaligned. I also 515 - > want to know and understand the focus that the business 516 - > has currently got. So where are people and where is 517 - > the founder spending their time? So you've got an idea 518 - > of the disconnect because again you often find right, well, 519 - > we need more sales, and then you realize the sales 520 - > team are spending all their time processing orders and not 521 - > doing anyspect prospecting right, So I want to understand that. 522 - > You also, in this part you get to understand how 523 - > the commercial engine works and is there a fundamental disconnect 524 - > between marketing and sales which is quite common because we've 525 - > grown up I think thinking that marketing and sales are 526 - > separate things. Whereas I see them as one thing, I 527 - > see it as a as a holistic entity. And if 528 - > you create a marketing team who's responsible for lead generation 529 - > over here, and then you have a sales team that 530 - > is responsible for converting over here, and they're disconnected i e. 531 - > The leads aren't the right fit with the right customers 532 - > for the sales team, then you'll end up with a 533 - > situation where one's blaming the other, and that happens in 534 - > organizations of one million to one billion, So it's important 535 - > to understand that. 536 - >

Speaker 3: And I suppose also in that situation, if the if 537 - > the sales team aren't talking to the marketing team, they're 538 - > giving them the wrong leads, and then those leads are 539 - > not converting and therefore I'm not getting new business. And 540 - > then so yeah, you can understand why it's important to 541 - > be together rather than dependent. 542 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And I think it's also important to understand 543 - > what's happening operationally. So there's one thing saying I want 544 - > to grow revenue and sales. But if you're signing up 545 - > customers and you've got what I effectively call a leaky bucket, 546 - > because let's say you've got a subscription model and you're 547 - > they're just you know, you're signing them, but they're leaving 548 - > or you're signing them and they're not growing. Because again, 549 - > there's one thing if you've got a customer base, you 550 - > want to grow the customer base in terms of revenue. 551 - > So that's what I would start off doing before before 552 - > I did anything else. 553 - >

Speaker 2: In terms of. 554 - >

Speaker 4: If we then look at revenue from new customer acquisition 555 - > to existing building out what systems needed to be to 556 - > be built in. And again, if you look at sales, 557 - > you do need a CRM system. You need consistent metrics 558 - > that the sales team are aligned against and understand there's 559 - > clear expectations. Marketing need to understand your ICP and your niche. 560 - >

Speaker 3: And the time sorry, what's ICP? 561 - >

Speaker 2: Sorry? 562 - >

Speaker 4: Your ideal customer profile. They need to understand, right, who 563 - > are we going after because if you talk to everybody, 564 - > you talk to nobody, and in this world of information 565 - > and overload, getting people's attention is one of the biggest challenges. 566 - > So being very specific in who you're talking to is 567 - > important for a marketing team. So marketing and sales need 568 - > to agree on all this stuff so I can work 569 - > with them on that, work on the metrics, and then 570 - > I will work with them which in their sales team 571 - > one to one. I'll be in meetings, whether that's with 572 - > the founder or with the manager of the founder's business 573 - > or their salespeople. And again, one of the things I 574 - > believe passionately about is helping people to get better. I 575 - > think sales in particular is a performance profession. It's about 576 - > understanding how to improve and doesn't matter how long you've 577 - > been doing the job, you can always improve And sometimes 578 - > spending time with people and understanding how they're doing the 579 - > job at the moment and tweaking what they do in 580 - > a meeting or how they deliver a proposal can make 581 - > marginal incremental improvements. And I would do the same thing 582 - > if they were looking at existing business and then look 583 - > at the operations. It's all about do they have consistent 584 - > standard processes and systems in place across the organization to 585 - > make sure that this entity works efficiently and are they 586 - > looking after their people and taking care of them? You know, 587 - > one of the things I always encourage clients to do 588 - > is have a weekly one to one with people they 589 - > directly manage to understand what's going on, not necessarily from 590 - > a how are you doing against your KPI job, but 591 - > how are you doing what's going on in your life? 592 - > As we said earlier, you know, making sure that you 593 - > stay connected to the people that you work with, which 594 - > is really difficult when you're working in the business, you've 595 - > got loads of stuff going on, You've got stuff going 596 - > on at home. 597 - >

Speaker 2: With these we talked about g SSEs. 598 - >

Speaker 4: There's loads of founders with children doing jesuses and a 599 - > levels and all sorts. So all that has a part 600 - > to play in how you also then manage the people 601 - > inside the organization. So I'd work on those things as 602 - > well once we got to that at that particular point. 603 - >

Speaker 3: And so so you said, roughly, you look at working 604 - > with the business for about twelve months roughly, and after 605 - > that stage, do you still say, stay in the business 606 - > a little bit or is it very much right now 607 - > I've gone, you don't need me anymore? Or is it like, okay, 608 - > I've gone, but I'm still here like once a month, 609 - > maybe once every two months or once a quarter sort 610 - > of thing. I because I imagine things still evolve. 611 - >

Speaker 2: They do. 612 - >

Speaker 4: I leave that discretionary, but I'm still I'm still in contact. 613 - > So you know, the first company that I started working with, 614 - > I probably speak to every month, and that isn't a 615 - > contracted thing at all at this point, but I do. 616 - >

Speaker 2: Because again. 617 - >

Speaker 4: Because I am, because I am in the business, I 618 - > do become part of the team. I get, you know, 619 - > a desk and I get a coffee mug, and so 620 - > that there is an emotional bond and connection that develops, 621 - > and that's quite difficult to suddenly walk away from. It's 622 - > and they also need to know that they can need 623 - > me at any point and there might be things that 624 - > they bring me in on in terms of assignments that 625 - > happen in the future. So, but it's also because you 626 - > want people to do well, don't you. You want you want 627 - > to see success. 628 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And so tips, what tips could you share 629 - > for us for like smaller businesses that might look at 630 - > growth and how do they like, how do they start 631 - > wanting to grow? Is there anything that they should look 632 - > at doing sort of things to help themselves. 633 - >

Speaker 4: Well, we just talked in the break about networking, and 634 - > I mentioned that at the beginning I do I do 635 - > believe in in networking, and there is different networking groups 636 - > and there's a lot and actually I'm amazed how many 637 - > different networking groups there are. And I think that is 638 - > largely due to the fact that these small businesses they 639 - > want to learn. They do obviously everyone goes to them 640 - > because they want more more customers. But I also think 641 - > it's the it's the in person connection and sharing and 642 - > building relationships. So I mean, you know, I've joined some 643 - > networking groups where there's genuine relationships and friendships and connection 644 - > from that. So I think the in person networking is 645 - > important and one of the things I always say to 646 - > clients when they're saying, right, I need more sales and 647 - > they're thinking about whether to hire a tele salesperson, or 648 - > spend more money on pay per click, or let's rebuild 649 - > the website, whatever they're whatever tactic they choose, I always say, 650 - > but what are you doing at the moment to try 651 - > and find where your ideal customers are in person? Where 652 - > do they frequent and or which companies that they are 653 - > speaking to could you speak to? So there's a sort 654 - > of degree of separation to it and partnership. I also 655 - > believe in partnership, finding the right partners to your companies 656 - > because new business has never been more easy, but it's 657 - > never been more difficult. We've got so easy to communicate 658 - > with people, as we say, they're overloaded with email, marketing, telesales, 659 - > LinkedIn requests, all sorts. 660 - >

Speaker 3: It is very difficult. But then I think also from 661 - > a networking point of view, I mean I know that 662 - > you do be and I my husband does be and 663 - > I as well. That's very much a networking group where 664 - > it's I find it a networking group where you're building 665 - > a salesforce within that group, aren't you really, because you're 666 - > not necessarily selling to the people in your networking group, 667 - > but you're making them understand your products and your services, 668 - > and they become the like and trust person because they 669 - > learn to like you as a person, and then they 670 - > can recommend you as a person and your services to 671 - > somebody else. So they almost become your salesforce, don't they 672 - > your networking team. 673 - >

Speaker 2: It's exactly how it works. 674 - >

Speaker 4: And I know some people find it a bit uncomfortable 675 - > because there is a degree of accountability to that particular group. 676 - > I don't have that, but I understand why some people do. 677 - > But yeah, for me, I see it as an extension of. 678 - >

Speaker 1: Me. 679 - >

Speaker 4: As you say, it's a marketing team extended. And you know, 680 - > lots of companies, if you look at the IT industry, 681 - > software companies have worked this out now and they're spending 682 - > more money on partnerships, and the VP or the head 683 - > of partnership sales is as if not more important than 684 - > the sales director. And it's all about finding those complimentary 685 - > partners that are talking to the customers that you want 686 - > to talk to. So, if we think about software products, 687 - > you're a medium sized business or even a large business, 688 - > you've got a load of products that you've bought that 689 - > are software tools. So if you've got something that's a 690 - > complimentary technology, who can you develop a partnership with that 691 - > can recommend you and you can work. 692 - >

Speaker 2: Collaboratively, actually collaboratively. 693 - >

Speaker 3: But getting those contacts are quite difficult, aren't they. It's 694 - > that sort of like example, I was account text this week. 695 - > Any accountants actually love it, but anybody else, As my 696 - > kids said on my Godmum, it's trade show for accountants. 697 - > How boring can it be? But there you are talking 698 - > to software houses that are linked to like my CRM provider, 699 - > and it's them, those little software houses getting involved with 700 - > those CRM powers. So you might have an amazing software 701 - > that you want to link it to somebody else because 702 - > that's where all your customers are. But getting in that 703 - > door is so hard. 704 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, And that is where if we're talking about new 705 - > business sales, the rules of success still remain. 706 - >

Speaker 2: You need to be. 707 - >

Speaker 4: Consistent, you know, with with what you're doing. You know, 708 - > nobody's going to suddenly talk to you straight away, but 709 - > you need yes. So you need lots of lots of patience, 710 - > lots of persistence, and lots of perspiration. 711 - >

Speaker 3: And I read somewhere that it takes somebody like seven times. 712 - > I think it is for them to have seen your 713 - > name for them to actually recognize or know who you are. 714 - >

Speaker 4: Well, i've heard fourteen, Oh wow, so it's. 715 - >

Speaker 3: Probably gone up since the seven I heard it was 716 - > quite a while ago. It was quite a long time ago. 717 - > So yeah, fourteen, it's a long number. 718 - >

Speaker 2: It's a lot big numbers, more than once. 719 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not that somebody's going to talk to you 720 - > on day one, is it, though? Fourteen is now double 721 - > to gosh, that has been gone up quite a lot. 722 - > So the performance method, the name itself, I suppose, really 723 - > comes about because you provide methods. 724 - >

Speaker 2: So yeah, for performance. 725 - >

Speaker 4: Yeah, there's certain certain frameworks and methodologies that I would use. 726 - >

Speaker 2: And do you sort of do if required? 727 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, and do you tailor those based on the business itself, 728 - > So it's not like a one shot fits all correct correct? 729 - >

Speaker 4: And I believe in I believe that we're talking a 730 - > lot about sales, so that, Yeah, sales is a process, 731 - > So you need a sales process in your business. Yeah, Okay, 732 - > the buyer has a process as well, and of course 733 - > we need to remember that the buyer's process is more 734 - > important than our sales process. So I always say, you know, 735 - > if you've got a sales process that says something that 736 - > means something to you, like I don't know. 737 - >

Speaker 2: Solution stage. 738 - >

Speaker 4: Well, no customer you're selling too knows that they're at 739 - > solution stage in your CRM. So it's more important to 740 - > understand what they're buying process, what stage they're at. 741 - >

Speaker 2: But so you do need. 742 - >

Speaker 4: Processes in marketing, sales, operations, recruitment, all these different functions, 743 - > but it does need to be tailored to the context, 744 - > because what is right for one business will need to 745 - > be tweaked for another. 746 - >

Speaker 2: You know. 747 - >

Speaker 4: And I've got a company that sells into the construction 748 - > industry and I've got a company that sells into the 749 - > charity industries, two examples. They are customer bases of I mean, 750 - > vastly different, vastly different, and their businesses are very different. 751 - > But the actual process of marketing and sales is fairly standard. 752 - > So you can use some fairly standard things and apply 753 - > them in the right way. But my job is to 754 - > make sense of this and people will will engage with 755 - > me because I've hopefully got the wisdom to be able 756 - > to say, right, okay, we've got this process that we 757 - > can adapt for this situation. And because I've spent time 758 - > understanding the situation, it allows me to adapt it. So 759 - > I'm certainly not going to go in and say I've 760 - > got this six steps of such and such, I'm going 761 - > to apply it to everything, because that's there's no such thing. 762 - > Not every business has six steps, and. 763 - >

Speaker 3: Not every business some business might have more, I suppose, 764 - > and I might have. You might have to miss out 765 - > a lot of steps if you're want to do in six. Yeah, 766 - > so what's your plan for performance method as a business? 767 - > All right, let me take it a step back. You 768 - > said right at the big You said earlier on that 769 - > when you talk to a founder, they talk about their 770 - > one year, three year, five year plan. Does every founder 771 - > have one of those? 772 - >

Speaker 2: No? 773 - >

Speaker 3: Good. I'm glad you said that, because I'm probably sitting 774 - > there thinking to myself. I mean, I'm a founder. I 775 - > definitely don't have a one year plan. I might have 776 - > a ten year strategy, but I definitely don't have a 777 - > one year one. And I think that that's the majority 778 - > of founders. We don't sit there with an every day 779 - > this is where I want to be in one year, 780 - > three years, five years and whatever else. Do you have one. 781 - >

Speaker 4: I've got a one year, I've got a one year. 782 - >

Speaker 2: I don't have a five year. 783 - >

Speaker 4: Embarrassingly, no, I don't have a five year, and I've 784 - > got a loose two year. I'm in this situation in 785 - > what I do where I can stay as mark for 786 - > Performance Method and enjoy what I do and enjoy the flexibility. 787 - > Or I can try and repeat BMS and grew to 788 - > two hundred people. I doubt that will happen. Yeah, those 789 - > are the options, and I'm focused on my one year 790 - > at the moment, with half an eye on next. But 791 - > there are also other things that I'm looking to do 792 - > outside Performance Method in business interests that I think I 793 - > might turn my attention to. We shall see. 794 - >

Speaker 3: I think most entrepreneurs do, they don't they, because I mean, 795 - > if you're a founder, you're offentively an entrepreneur, aren't you. 796 - > And it's very unlikely that you're just going to do 797 - > one thing without thinking of something else later on down 798 - > the line, or thinking, oh I might branch off and 799 - > do something else completely different. Yeah, exactly, so watch your space. 800 - >

Speaker 4: Then absolutely I might go back to be a teacher 801 - > I wanted to do at the beginning. Oh yeah, you 802 - > never know doubt that. 803 - >

Speaker 3: Maybe not maybe not right. So finally, one last question. 804 - > If there's anybody listening out there and they're thinking to themselves, 805 - > oh god, this starting a business, growing it sounds like 806 - > a really, really difficult thing. What would your recommendations be. 807 - >

Speaker 4: They're thinking of starting it out and it's going to 808 - > be a difficult thing. Well, you are not short of 809 - > resources now to understand how to do it and what 810 - > you need to do. My advice would be find find 811 - > out what it is that you want to do where 812 - > you're you're genuinely helping or solving a problem for people, 813 - > because I think that's fundamentally important. You've really got to understand, right, 814 - > is this really going to be useful for people? I 815 - > want to stop short of saying follow your passion, because 816 - > I know that's quite a controversial thing to say. I 817 - > think there's some element of truth in doing something that 818 - > you genuinely love. But I also think it's important that 819 - > you focus on something that you are good at and 820 - > I can apply yourself to. And I would also say 821 - > that it's good if you can get some mentorship which 822 - > won't cost you anything. So for example, sorry growth Hub, 823 - > loads of resources there free Rene Wheeler, I think. 824 - >

Speaker 2: Fantastic. 825 - >

Speaker 4: So to speak to her, I would before you then start, 826 - > you know, going out and thinking right, once you've done it, 827 - > I'm going to speak to Mark. You know, there's a 828 - > stage where you need certain people. But I think you know, 829 - > if you partner with or start speaking to the right 830 - > there's lots of free resources. That's where I would start. 831 - >

Speaker 3: Brilliant, Thank you very much. And also I suppose there's 832 - > lots of other businesses you can talk to, other people 833 - > you can talk to as well who are there to 834 - > help you as well. 835 - >

Speaker 4: And that comes back to the networking bit. Yeah, you know, 836 - > and again not plugging that B and I network because 837 - > there's loads of loads. 838 - >

Speaker 3: It's about say B and I. If BE and I 839 - > is not for you, it doesn't mean that networking for you. 840 - > You just have to find the right one, don't loads 841 - > of them? Yeah, No, and BE and I doesn't always 842 - > work for everyone. Just finding the right one for you 843 - > I think is important. Brilliant. So we have actually come 844 - > to the end, thank you very much. So as I said, 845 - > if you want to find out more about Mark than 846 - > you can do find him on LinkedIn, Mark and milsted 847 - > I have said that correctly, Yeah, brilliant m I. L. S. 848 - > T Ed and his business is Performance Method. Website is 849 - > performance Method dot co dot uk. So if you've been 850 - > listening to this live, thank you very much. If you're 851 - > listening to this on podcasts, then if you didn't catch 852 - > that website, it will be on the podcast notes of 853 - > the bottom of this podcast. And you can catch all 854 - > your podcasts from your Business Hour wherever you get your 855 - > podcasts from, and we are also your Business Hour on 856 - > Instagram and on Facebook. So catch up with you again 857 - > soon and thank you for listening, and thank. 858 - >

Speaker 4: You very again, Mark, Thanks Chantal, great you cheers. 859 - >

Speaker 1: Champ Consultants is an award winning independent firm of highly 860 - > experienced qualified accountants and tax advisors based in Case, providing 861 - > a fully comprehensive range of accountancy. 862 - >

Speaker 2: And tax services. 863 - >

Speaker 1: If you would like simple but creative answers to your 864 - > tax problems, called Champ Consultants your business partner on OH 865 - > one double eighty three three four nine three hundred