Tools For Creating a Life Of Prosperity & Ease with Cathy Heller

Speaker A: This is the Whiskey and Work podcast, A place to talk about building better relationships, creating more fulfilling work, and living the life you've always wanted. And I'm gonna tell you, it ain't easy, but it is worth it. So if that sounds like your sort of thing, stick around. I'm your host, Kelsey Murphy, and this is Whiskey and Work. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episod. Welcome to this episode of Whiskey and Work. I'm your host, Kelsey Murphy, and I have one of my favorite humans on today. Oh, my gosh. One of my dearest friends, brilliant business owner and an absolute inspiring creative, um, that is always, always there to have mic drops in moments to bring you back to earth, especially when you're trying to do things like build a business feel, um, less like a productivity robot, maybe raise a few kids while you're at it. She's the person that casually drops the idea that, hey, your only real job is to let go of the outcome, to just show up. I'm like, ah, you are right. She is honestly part soul whisperer, part creative tornado, and 100% the real deal when it comes to building a business and a life that actually feels right for you. So in this conversation, we get into a couple things. One, why your fear of rejection might not actually be about other people, and how to stop abandoning yourself to avoid it. Two, how to create and sell from a place of total non attachment, and why that makes everything work better in your business. And three, what Kathy said to her dad before he passed, that changed how she shows up in every relationship, including her business. It's pretty profound. This was such a beautiful episode. So for me, um, this episode hits deep. It reminded me that the more I try to prove my value with bonuses and bells and whistles, the more I drift from the work that. That's actually mine to do. Um, this is a really special episode. It's a big one. Um, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the latest and greatest from Risk, Risky and Work. I mean, I'm not complaining. I feel like that could be a new thing. We can get a little risque while we do a little work. A. Um, Okay, I digress. Let me try that one again. Let's sit back, let's relax, and enjoy the latest and greatest from Whiskey and Work with my dear friend, the brilliant business owner, uh, creative extraordinaire, Ms. Kathy Heller. Okay, Kathy, what's the deal with this adorable pink background you have?

Speaker B: I know, it's really cute. It's because my kids are still home for the summer, and I've been using my living room because it's so yummy and bougie. And today I'm inside my husband's office so that they can be in the house, and I'm like, I want to put up a background. And I was like, oh, Mary Poppins, it just, like, snap your fingers and make it pink and cute.

Speaker A: I mean, we. We do live in a time where if that's what you want, you can get it like that, for better or for worse, you know?

Speaker B: And you know what? We all live in a virtual reality anyway. You can really start to see how you live in your own reality based on what slideshow is in your own head. But, yeah, you can make it whatever you want. You can sit on the moon and have a zoom call. You can sit in Central Park. You can just choose your own adventure.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, you guys, we're not holding back. We're jumping right in. We're jumping right in. And I'm so excited. This is, uh, you know, selfishly so fun for me. I feel like Kathy and I, whenever we get to. To chat with each other for an hour, we always get back on Voxer and we're like, oh, we could have just chatted for so long. So, m. Am so excited to have you here. Kat, thank you so much for coming. You know, a lot of the folks in here, you guys know Kathy, one of my dearest, dearest friends, and, um, brilliant, brilliant business owner, insane manifester, um, the person who takes me, like, out of the trenches and pulls me up and is like, but what do we really want here? Kelsey, I hear what you're saying about the data, but let's. Let's jump up. Let's jump up to a higher level, a higher vibration. Let's bring that energy up, and that's

Speaker B: what you do for me.

Speaker A: Um, but some people don't know you here, cats. So for the people that don't know you, um, I could go on and on about your. Your accolades and all the things that you have. Will you give them the little, quick 25 cent version of, like, hey, if you don't know me, this is. This is who I am.

Speaker B: Sure. Yeah, I'm a mom. I have three daughters, and so many of you I know. But for those of you who I don't know, I have three daughters. I write, uh, books and do transformational coaching. I studied meditation for years and still a student of that work. And I study Jewish mysticism in Jerusalem and teach a Little bit of that Kabbalah way of looking through those lenses of that mystical tradition. And, um, I also really love seeing women make money and use their gifts. And so I've helped many, many women to step into their full potential. And Kelsey and I like to geek out on business. And after you make your first hundred grand, you know, some things, you know, and after you make your first million, you're like, you know what? It must not be all luck, because I'm doing something over and over. And then once you make $5 million a year consistently, you're like, maybe I should teach some of this stuff. Maybe it's not all just, like, you know, sort of like something I bumped into. Maybe there's something I'm, like, aware of that I'm repeating. Maybe there's something I'm repeating that's working. And so I love all of those conversations, and I think they're all kind of connected, because I think every one of us has the same desire, which is to live into our potential. And I think that using our gifts and thriving. Which. Part of that is making money? Part of that is being your most authentic self. Part of that is getting out of your head, which meditation can help with. And. And part of that is connecting to the divine, which we all, on some level, whatever we call it, we want that so badly. So I feel like all of the things that I love to do really are the same thing, which is to help us to fully thrive and get beyond this little, um, like, fog in our brain, which we all have, too. Um, and that's part of the way we're all designed. And there is an owner's manual, and I think that the things that I've learned have really helped me understand the owner's manual. Just like you understand what your iPhone needs to be charged, and you understand sort of how much memory you have. It's like we have certain things that are happening in our psyche, in our mind, in our bodies, in our nervous system, and in the. In the way that we see the world. And we have so much more of an ability to manage that, um, than we think. And so I think that's the conversation that you have, Kelsey. I think we're having that same conversation. And you and I just bring, like, different, um, tools to the table, but they're really the same, um, in many ways, they're just different languages for the same tools.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I love it. Lots of yeses, lots of head nods. I feel like there's virtual hugs. If we could do virtual Hugs. We're, we're so excited about this. Um, also, Kathy is quite the creator. It's something I really admire about you, Kath, is like, you are willing to be creative and to put yourself out there. And I do want to talk a little bit about how you have cultivated that ability to do those things. Because you're very nim. You create things and then you are. You put them out there a lot of times with zero expectation. It's almost like the process of just creating and putting out there. It is amazing to watch. It's because so many of us have a hard time getting past that. Right. Um, and one of the things that you've just recently created is a brand new book. Um, so I want you to talk a little bit about that because that is coming out soon and I want that to be on everyone's radar. Nice.

Speaker B: That's so nice. Um, that's 100% true, what you just said. And I love that introduction to that piece on creativity, because that is the essential piece, is that I have no expectation. Um, because I like to create for the same reason that your three daughters like to create. It's fun. And I don't put the pressure on myself to manage the outcome because that's not my job. You know, I always say, get out of God's business. Like, you just answer the call, just do the thing, whatever the thing is. Start a podcast, write a song, just, just play. Just do what you're inspired to do because it feels really fun to do that. Um, and then the outcome will completely and totally do what it needs to do. It'll show you exactly where you need to be. The world, um, has a really generous way of letting us know, sometimes very loudly, where we are meant to be and where we're not. And so you'll keep being led to your alignment because the universe moves towards wholeness. Right? For instance, if you're going to grow a tree, you wouldn't put the water actually right on the tree. You actually, if anyone knows anything about gardening, you, you. You do a circle a little bit outside of the tree, so it will move its roots towards that water. And then if you want to keep growing it taller, it needs wider roots. So you'll actually grow the circle a little bit wider. And then the tree goes for it. What I'm saying is we have a world that literally works to guide us towards where we're meant to be. So our job is just to keep making the thing that you feel next call to make. And then the outcome will constantly Guide you to where that water is. You'll be led. Like, I thought I was supposed to be a songwriter, and I reached for that, and I enjoyed the process of reaching for that. And then I was being given this, like, direction. Like, no, like, that door closed. And that door closed. And then I wrote music for television for a while, and that was part of my creativity. And then I wound up starting a podcast just as sort of like an afterthought. Like, oh, let me just start that. And then that just quickly just blew up. It just took off so fast. And I was like, oh, okay. It was kind of like when you're playing with Lightbright and you keep putting different pegs in different holes, and then this one just, like, really is bright. It's like, oh, okay, so it's none of my business. You know, my business is like, just make the next thing that I feel curious about making. And then the world tells you, like, this. This right here, this is where you need to be right here. And okay, so I think it's the letting go. Exactly. Like you said, I don't have the expectation. What I want to do is enjoy what I'm doing as I'm doing it, period. It's like, I want to feel good now. I don't want to wait to feel good. I don't want to need this to be a hit to feel good. I don't want to need a million followers to feel good. I don't want to need this to make money to feel good. I want to feel good right now. So I'm going to enjoy whatever I'm doing and know that what is happening, there's a way for me to contribute, or there's a way for me to do this with ease, or there's a way for me to ask myself, what would joy and love look like while doing this? And that's the only way that's going to feel fun. But surprisingly, that leads you to a lot of creativity. And then when you have the capacity to let go of being perfect, you do make way more things. And then chances are you're going to hit something out of the park. And so the more you just ship the work and ship the work, you're like, oh, that one was actually good. Okay, that book's the bestseller. Or, oh, that thing worked. That's a podcast. Whoa. I didn't know I was going to do that. So I think most of the time, people are just sitting on the bench when they should be creating a lot more. And it just requires simply the courage to let go, uh, of the outcome, which means letting go of being rejected, actually.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I don't really care about being rejected, because that's an old story. I mean, the world can reject you or not. It's not really up to you. You have no control over that. It's so boring. It doesn't matter to me. That part I'm not really interested in. I'm more interested in, like, am I going to reject myself? Am I going to, like, sit out this idea that I have? Why. Why would I do that? And I think, honestly, being the child of, uh, divorce, which was really uncomfortable, especially the way my parents got divorced, some people get divorced in a way where it's not even so bad. I mean, it just depends how it's done. In my case, it was so bad and so awful and I was so uncomfortable that I learned to tolerate being uncomfortable, number one, which is a positive. And I also learned that the people you love most, who are most supposed to protect you, could reject you, and you can survive it. And I really. I really think that that, in a way, is a blessing also. I want to give my mom a shout out. My mom's a creative. So growing up, I was told, like, just make a messy collage. Just paint something, make it a splotch, make it this, make it that. Just. Just take lessons for the sake of taking the lessons. So I really value that as well. And I think that that is what we should capture in our children and ourselves and in our friends. Just celebrate being messy and making things and saying things and being creative until you find your voice or you find the work that you're most meant to master. But it takes a second to, uh, figure out what that is.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. What I was going to ask is, like, so you have such. This. Such a great story of, like, you started in songwriting. And, um, if you guys follow Kathy at all, like, that was like, many, many moons ago. Like, catch the moons ago, you know? Um, you see what I did there.

Speaker B: Stick around, stick around. She's very cle.

Speaker A: Um, but it was not the ultimate path for you. You had some success in it. Absolutely. Which is really cool and fun. Um, and then you were. Doors were shut for you, and you started to explore other things. What's really interesting is, like, if you follow Kathy at all, she still sings. She still sings all the freaking time, right? Like, so what I find fascinating is that you can tolerate that rejection and not. It doesn't crumple you. And I think that two things happen for people. One they're terrified of the rejection. The idea of being rejected feels terrifying whether we admit it or not. And two, if you do get rejected, then it debilitates you. You're just like, I knew it. You just proved I wasn't good at this. Right. And so how you started to say a few beautiful things in there of, like, you're only worried about rejecting your yourself. Like, am I going to reject myself? Like, um, I'm not interested in what other people think. Tell us about that process. Because I think if. If any of us could walk away with that and then just start creating more freely for the sake of it, and then stumbling upon all these little life purposes and life adventures and things like that would be the dream. So what. What can you give people for that?

Speaker B: Well, first of all, I have a lot of compassion because we all have our thing. We all have our stuff. We all have the triggers. So I want to be, like, just helpful here and say that I have tons of triggers. It's just not that one. But I'll give you an example. Like, for me growing up with a dad who as a kid was very volatile and. And then would leave and come back and leave and then eventually left, um, I. I grew to have a trigger where I don't want anyone to be mad at me. Uh, because if they're mad, it's not safe. They might leave or something. Like, abandonment equals, like, when someone gets mad, they just leave. So I. I don't necessarily have a trigger around being rejected because I don't. I think it's like, um, we get mad at the things that we co. Sign, right? And then when we have certain, you know, like, if somebody were to say to me, you're a purple monkey, I'd be like, okay. Uh, right. But if someone were to say to me something that I actually kind of believe it would hurt. Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But since I'm the first one that doesn't need myself to be perfect, if someone's like, I didn't like your episode, I don't like the way you talk. I'm like, you're totally entitled to that. Like, I don't have shame around the fact that I'm not perfect, so it doesn't hurt me. But if someone's mad at me, I. My whole body, it's like, I have to do something. Like, this person got mad. Oh, my God, this person's hurt. Oh, my God. It's like, wait, they're entitled to their response. So anyway, that's a Trip for me. So I'm saying that because, yeah, I understand what it's like when people are wired into being afraid of being rejected. And I hear that, uh, all the time, which is such a waste of energy. Because what I have come to realize about the world, and this is, uh, so obvious, as soon as we say it out loud, people don't even see you. They see what they're available to see. Like, nobody sees you because everyone sees you differently. We see the story that we project. We're all projectors. We're all movie projectors. We're all meaning making machines. So I'm like, as soon as I meet you within the blink of an eye, I'm, like, making up a story. I'm like, she seems sweet. She reminds me of someone I knew in second grade. I like her name, Kelsey. Oh, she's from San Diego. I have good memories of San Diego. All of a sudden, I have a whole story about whether I like you or not. Somebody out might be like, oh, my God, I hated living in San Diego. And I remember this really superficial girl and her name was Kelsey, and blah, blah, blah. Uh, we went to camp together, and they're already. They're already sitting back like, you need to prove yourself. No one sees you. People see what they're willing to see. And then eventually, if you happen to be with someone who has a really clean energy, like, they're just in beginner's mind, they just have a lot of equanimity. Maybe they will see you right. And that feels really good. But you have no control over that. So the fact that we would lose sleep over somebody who doesn't like it, what's interesting is, and I've learned this, and it's really fun, your job as a human is not to keep people from being triggered by you. Like, your job is not to constantly manage the temperature in the room and be like, I need to make sure that people don't reject me. That's not where your energy is supposed to go. Your energy is supposed to be in. I want to be the best version of myself. I want to be the most authentic version of myself. Because love. Love has space for everyone. Like, when love is in the room, you don't have to vote the same. You don't have to eat the same things. There's love. Love is a gift. Love is a choice to just make space. Oneness is not sameness. We can all be different parts of the orchestra and be like, I like that we're different. I like that we have different Tastes in music, different tastes in people. Great. We learn from each other and we all need to be on the keyboard of musical notes. And that's what makes a song interesting, that makes life interesting. So if somebody rejects you, that's totally their business and their prerogative. But I'd like to say, like, you're welcome, you know, because if someone gets triggered by you just being yourself, then maybe you're helping them see contrast. That helps them lead to like, why did I get so mad? Oh, it's because I don't agree. Well, maybe that's good. So now you know what you do agree with. Maybe you don't agree with me. That's actually good for you. Right? Because it helps, you know, your point of view. So it's all really cool actually. So that part doesn't bother me because I actually think Rick Rubin said this recently. He's a music producer. A lot of people know who he is. And he said the only way he knows that something's going to be a hit song is if it's polarizing. Because if you write a song and everyone says the same thing about it, it's not really new. Then basically what you did is you made a piece of creative work that is the average of something everyone's already heard. So you didn't take a risk. But if you watch through history, people who eventually make hit songs, they actually hit a nerve with some people. And other people loved it, other people didn't like it. There are certain things in the world that when you ask people, they'll be like, I don't have an opinion. Those are not interesting things. The interesting things are the people who go, oh my God, I can't stand that artist. You're like, ooh. Or other people. Like, I'm obsessed. You like Pink? I love her. Oh my God, I hate her. You like that Broadway show? That Broadway show was horrible. It's like that Broadway show that you're talking about and you're polarized about that's going to win the Tony. Like you got, you've got a clear path for people, which means you have a point of view. You say something different. I say this all the time. But people that we look up to, whether it's Dolly Parton or Picasso or Jim Henson or. I mean, pick a person in history, those people don't stand. Those people don't fit in because they stand out.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Why do you stand out? You said something different. Well, if you say something different, some people are going to say, I don't stand with you, I stand against. Okay, but that's having a point of view. So people are so in need of belonging that they abandon themselves and they don't have a point of view and they don't know how they feel. And then they want abundance because they go, if I just had money, I'd feel free. No, you feel free when you're authentic. So uh, at some point you have to choose to be authentic. And when you do that, when you do choose to be authentic, it will cost you the people who love you because you're not authentic. That's gotta be a good thing. That can't be bad. If you, if you're being authentic and uh, people choose to walk out the door, they're not really capable of being loving to you. Because I have lots of people in my life, as crazy as it sounds, that don't agree with me on lots of things, but I can love them and they can love me. Because I think we're a little bit higher minded where it's like, oh, I just find that interesting. And I kind of like that we like, disagree. I mean, my husband is an introvert and I'm an extrovert. My husband thinks entrepreneurs are one in a zillion. I think everyone can become an entrepreneur. My husband really thinks school has value. I think everyone should be out of school and unschooled. And those are pretty big things. And we can disagree a lot. And by disagreeing we help each other find something else which is really interesting.

Speaker A: Uh, I freaking love it. I, um, feel like it all comes back to this idea of being, that authenticity is not being perfect and owning those things. Like, um, someone was asking in the chat, they were saying when it is a trigger for you, like, ah, ah, like someone is mad at me or, you know, how do you bring yourself back into balance? And I have seen, seen you do this. Like I, because I have been with you when you're worried about someone being mad at you and I've seen you bring yourself back. It's, it's, um, I don't think that it's. And I, I want to get your point of view and hear what you say. Your advice is to people that are getting triggered. And ah, triggered I think is not only getting mad, but triggered is oh, they don't like me, you know, like. Or they said something negative about my coaching because I think that holds people back. There's so many people on this call that have the ability to coach people and to start these businesses and they're so scared that if they do and they raise their hands and they say it to their friends and family, like, hey, I'm doing this kind of coaching that someone's going to laugh in their face, right? And so when you feel that trigger, and I believe this is a constant journey, like usually when we have those deep triggers, they're not going away. Like they're going to keep coming back time and time again. Our ability to know what to do with them and to have, um, like intentionally do something when we feel that trigger. I think that's, that's the work. But I'm curious what your advice would be to someone when they feel that trigger. What do you, what do you do to bring yourself back?

Speaker B: I mean, I, uh, I. It's just we have to have, first of all, have a lot of ease and compassion and grace for ourselves because there's a part of our brain that replays wherever that trigger comes from. And it feels like the elephant is still standing on your chest. Like it doesn't feel different when it gets triggered. That's what a trigger means. It means it lights up like a Christmas tree. The part of you that experienced the fear when that felt really like it was going to blow that roof off the house. And so I've worked on that my whole life and I've gotten so much better at it. But you're right, it still comes up because it's one of those, like, formidable things that sort of help write the software to like the Kathy Heller program and the avatar that I've played for so long. So I'm like, oh, it's so juicy. You know, it's so juicy. And it's such a good teacher when it happens. And I've had that throughout my life. And um, you know, my dad passed away recently and I'm so grateful that in the spring I went and had like a really long heart to heart with him because we had a really interesting sort of up and down relationship. And then, um, when we reestablished our relationship when I was in my 20s, I played a role so that I would be very pleasing and we would never argue, so we never fought. And in order to do that, I just would omit certain things to play a certain role. And it felt like it was great. I was like, oh, everything's so great. And then I realized I just wasn't being honest. If something would come up, I wouldn't say, oh, I don't like how your wife just spoke to the waiter, like, because he was remarried, like, I would keep that to myself. It was like A little paper cut. Or, uh, if I was with them and they said Chinese or Italian, I wouldn't say Italian. I was just like, either one. It's like, paper cut. Or if I, uh, had a situation where he said something rude about my mom because my parents were divorced, just keep it to myself. Paper cut. And then there were big things, too, you know, there were things that would happen where he would make decisions, and I wouldn't agree. And I'm like, no problem. I mean, it was awful. It was just insane. And, um, it came time where I just knew, I have to have this conversation with him because I don't know how much longer he'll be on the planet. And so in April, he died. In July, I went to him and said, I really have to have a conversation with you. And I'm, like, shaking because since I was little, I have been afraid to just be honest, like, fully. And now we have this beautiful connection, but some of it's, like, not real. And he was like. He literally sat on the couch. He's like, please tell me everything. And I was like, okay, in no particular order. Um, and then I just, like, told him things that happened when I was 12 that I knew that he didn't know that I knew, like the affair he had. I told him about things that happened with my mom once he was gone, and how unbelievably painful it was to watch her unravel alone without his support. And then I told him about things that have happened recently where I thought there was just insensitivity. And he was so grateful. And the reason I bring this up is because we talked for four and a half hours. And then he sent me a note saying that that was one of the best moments of his life and that he felt both nauseous having to listen, but so, uh, close to me. And he was so grateful that we finally had that conversation because he really didn't know that I was holding any of that. And then I had this feeling, like, when I was a little kid, we used to watch the Greatest American Hero. Believe it or Not, I'm Walking on Air. You guys know the song anyway. Such a good song, by the way. Anyway. And I felt like I was 20ft off the ground. And I said to my friend Tracy Litt, I go. I called her. I go, I don't even know if that actually happened. It's surreal that I actually did that since I'm 4 years old. I was like, note to self. Just stay in your lane. Don't get dad upset. It's like waking the gremlin. Don't feed the gremlin after midnight. And it was unbelievably powerful, and I'm so grateful I did that. But here's the really cool thing as a result of doing it where it really counted, which is with him, which is kind of where it originated. Uh, I swear, it's like, I can talk to anyone now about the truth. It's unbelievable. And I did it before he died. And I had to have a hard conversation the other day with someone, and just with love and honesty, I was like, here's my experience right now, and here's how I think you do it. This is what I did when I spoke to my father. This was the advice I was given. You don't need them to respond a certain way. This is for you. So when I was talking to my dad, I was like, I don't need you to apologize. I really don't. That's not why I'm saying this. I don't need you to fix it. I really don't need you to do anything else. I just have to tell you, like, this is what had happened, and this is how I felt about what happened. Because I might be also, like, making up, meaning, uh, in my head. And it was so powerful. So now I have had, I mean, such a growth spurt since then that now it's like, oh, I want to mention that thing to so and so. Just say it. Okay, I just said it, so it's very cool. And, um. And then the other thing that I would say is what I did in order to do it that morning when I walked over to his house in April, that day, I said to myself, go in as the woman that you are, not as the little girl, and call up inside of you the woman you are. Because she could. She's got this. The little girl. She actually needs you to take care of her right now. She doesn't got this because you know what it feels like to go back to being that little girl, but you're not her, and you can actually take care of her, so let's freaking go. And I think there are moments where our brain literally recreates the same chemicals as it did when the thing was first injured. And then you feel like the little girl, and then you have no power. But if you know that, that's what your brain does. And instead, you're like, no, no, no. But in here, in my gut, like, I know what it feels like to be the woman I am. And the woman I am has Totally got this. Let's go. Let's freaking go. You know. So as a result, so many of my relationships, all of my relationships actually had a tinge of codependency in them. And some had more than a tinge dynamics at play within my sister relationship, my husband relationship, my mom relationship, my kid relationship. Just ways that I would over function because it was part of my same programming. And I just kind of chipped away at a lot of those things. And as a result, honestly, all those relationships are flourishing because I'm a lot more honest. And honest from the standpoint of you don't need to do anything. I'm just going to be more me. And that's so good for us and it's so good for everybody else. Um, so I can't wait to write another book on how I've like continuously disrupted things in my marriage in a good way. Like be a disruptor, where I'm like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to just say that. Like this dynamic where we're both little coaches, like, why am I co signing that we can do better. And I'm going to make us both really uncomfortable to see what could happen when we let go of this dynamic. And it's just like, there's no end how good it gets to be when you're willing to have the courage to let go of what was. And so I'm so grateful that with my father, um, I am grateful that for 20 years, in a way, I try to let things go. I am. Because in a way that actually spared me. That's a kind of a cool strategy. But in a way, it also cost me because it kept making me this little version of myself. And how we do one thing shows up in how we do everything. So you can't just like pretend a little with your dad, but then be totally a badass at work. You could be more of a badass at work when you're more authentic over here, it all bleeds together. But I'm so grateful that in the end of the end, when time was running out, when he died in July, it was like, there's nothing. There was nothing false in the room. Completely open, like. And that, uh, feel. I would have been so sad if I hadn't done that.

Speaker A: Oh, my God. Oh, Cass. I feel like, I mean, everyone is crying. Um, and the story just goes to show, like, I mean, you feel the elephant on your chest. Like it's the elephant is there. That's the trigger, right? And we're so scared to feel the elephant all the time that we are just like, I'm just gonna avoid, avoid, avoid. But once you. Once you see the elephant and then you feel it and you, like, love up on it, you say, hello, I see you're trying to protect me. I'm going to be me anyways. And then you go and do it. Like, these are the kinds of things that happen.

Speaker B: Totally. And, um, the people in your life, like, you're one of these people for me. The people in your life who really love you are so happy to hear what you really feel and what you really need. And then they go, what else can I do for you? Like, you're just like, really? It's not easy. Like, with pleasure, like. Like with flying colors, like, it's so easy to do. And then you open yourself up to receive a lot more, you know, Because I realized with my dad, I had this awareness like, oh, I kept myself from receiving a lot more love that he was actually capable of giving. I don't know his whole journey with me if he was as mature. But I think for the last like 12, 10, 12 years, he had way more capacity to do for me and show up for me. But I didn't really allow that invitation because I was like. And it's like I learned a lesson from that. I'm like, oh, uh, my dad wanted to give me so much more of that, but it wasn't on the table because I had assumed I just need to be this way in order to keep the peace. I think he could have tolerated it because I think he had caught up with his wisdom. And I think he really wanted. He really wanted nothing more than two. But he was grateful for what? Whatever amount of that time we had.

Speaker A: Yeah. And what's amazing is you had to be in the place where you were able to come to that conversation with zero expectation. Like, uh, that your ability to. That's true, you know, to not only create and put things out there from like a singing perspective, from a. A business coursework perspective, like, um, and. And the way you're describing this now from a conversation perspective, to be able to just put this out there, because this is my job. This is what I was called to do. This is. This is only thing I need to do with zero expectation. Like, when you feel that and you're able to do that, I feel like that's the time you go and you do that and you create and you have the conversation that makes all the difference.

Speaker B: You're so right. And to bring it into the coaching thing Just because I think it's all the same is you and I have that conversation all the time. Like when we go to do a launch, when you're at the place where you really just let go of the expectation because you're just here to do you and you enjoy it and you feel like, if I can just be helpful and if I can be in my. In my light, I feel like I'm doing the things that fulfill me and it's win, win. And you let go of how people receive it or what sells or what doesn't. And you just do the best work because you're realizing in the moment you've won because you're all in. You've RSVP to the experience fully and you're enjoying it and nothing else needs to happen outside of you. That is. I mean, that. And that is the essence of manifestation. Because we create from the wholeness within. When we have a lack within and we need this thing outside of us, whether it's another customer or more likes or another whatever achievement or this person's approval, we will just literally keep putting that manifestation further away. When we are like, oh, I gave myself the wholeness. Here's the wholeness, right? Then all of a sudden it's like, wholeness, right? Because it's. Everything we get is a reflection of what's on the inside. So wholeness creates wholeness. So all of a sudden you're like, I'm really, really, really, really actually good. And I'm really enjoying how good that feels. And. And here's what feels like the next thing I want to share or do, and no one needs to do anything about it. People can feel that, we feel that, and then it moves people right toward you. You know, my husband and I are like, constantly going through these things. I'm actually always the one that, like, pushes. Although he sent me this morning, he's cute. He sent me like two reels he wanted me to watch. One was about how men don't get feelings as well as women and, like, the get logic. And so he. He, like, tries.

Speaker A: He's like, see, this is what we were talking about. Counseling. It's. It's a thing. It's a thing.

Speaker B: But I'm usually the one that throws like, a massive wrench into the relationship because I'm more willing to let go and I'm more willing to take the risks. And so, um, you know, I'll say to him some. Every so often, I'll say to him, like, let's break up with this dynamic completely. Let's just break up. We have a soul contract, so we're always together. We'll be together for forever, in infinity, we've been together. We love each other. We're best friends, too, my husband and I. So I'm like, we have a soul contract, but let's break up. And we'll be together, but we'll choose each other. So if you want to go on a date with me, choose to date me tonight. Otherwise, we're here. We're kicking it. You know what I mean? Like, it's all language, but it's not. It's energy. And when you get into grooves with people, you go back to these, like, old patterns. And when you give someone the I, um. I release you from expectations kind of a thing, they move toward you again. And so it's just really interesting that. I mean, we can do that all the time. And I do that in my business. Like, again, just to use a strategic sort of. Like, it's not strategy, it's just real. Like, when I do a launch, right, I always say before I'm about to, like, close the. Let's m. Say, um, I'm pitching a program or something. I'm like, hey, let me just remind you of what you already know, which is, I'm not for everyone. And there's a million other people out there, at least, so you don't have to do this. But if you feel called, then find whoever it is and do it with them. It's like, uh, my butt isn't even still, but do it with me. And I really mean that. Yeah, I don't kind of mean that. I mean, like, I might be the worst thing for you, and someone else might really be the best thing for you. It depends how you learn. It depends who you are as a person, and it depends what you need right now. And when people hear that, they're always like, but now I want this. I'm like, no, really, check yourself. Like, do you really want this? You know, do what's best for you. And I just enjoy getting to do the work. And I know who's ever meant to have it will be the right people, and they'll have it. So I don't need everybody to sign up. I don't need everyone to learn from me. I want some people to not. Because I know that that's not really what they need. So that is how you run a business. It's how you run your marriage. That's how you do with my kids, too. You think the second I try, Come on, My, uh, husband has seen it. Sometimes I have this idea. I'm like, girls, do you want to do acting camp? Because, like, I'm such an extrovert. He's like, here it goes. He's like, they're gonna just run the other way. And that's what happens. So I've learned. I just put. I, like, kind of just put different things in front of them, and then I'm just very much like, whatever. And then when the thing is, the thing I really want them to do, I'm like, oh, yeah, don't even. I mean, whatever. Running for student counseling, whatever. And then I, like, put it in front of them again, you know? And then my middle daughter was like, I think I'm going to run for school president. And I. In my mind, I'm like, yes. You know, she's going to speak on stage. And so me. Right? And I'm like, or don't. Because if I were to say to her, oh, my God, of course you are. I'll help you make your poster. I'll help you write your speech and be over, you know, I'm just like, do it. Don't do it. Whatever you want. It's cool. It's whatever. So, I mean, my mom, when I was in eighth grade, came home one day with a pack of cigarettes. My mom doesn't smoke. My grandfather died before I was born because he had a heart attack from smoking cigarettes. So she walks in with the cigarettes, and I'm thinking, what the hell is she doing with cigarettes in her hand? And she goes, hey, is anyone in eighth grade, like, trying cigarettes? And I was like, ew. Yeah, I don't know why you asked me that. And she's like, if you want to smoke, you can smoke at home. And I was like, first of all, I had no desire to smoke a cigarette. But I was like, it's so weird. And I've. I'm 45. I've never smoked a cigarette my whole life. Because my mom was like, do it. Don't do it. And I'm like, first of all, it's gross. But she did that also with sex. Like, when I went to college, she was like, um, you know, if you want to have sex, I'll take you to Planned Parenthood. You can get protection, and da, da, da. And then I was like, ew. Oh, my God, she's talking about this. But then I did have a boyfriend. And then we were careful and all this stuff. And, like, I just. I wasn't crazy rebellious because there's nothing to Rebel against. That's what I'm trying to say. It was like there was a lot of like, trust or like letting go of controlling me. That's what I'm trying to say. So then I could just make good choices. So it's the same thing with everything. When you let go and you come from love. I even do that when I fire someone. I'll be like, this must not be the highest and best for you because it doesn't feel like it is for me. And I don't want to keep you from what is your spot. And then they're like, oh, that's a cool perspective. And I'm like. And I kind of mean that. Like, if this doesn't feel like a hell yes for me, then I'm keeping you from where you're supposed to be. And then they're like, is that reverse psychology? I'm like, no, that's how I actually feel. So you should go do that. And if someone ever quits, they're like, I feel so bad. I'm like, no, you shouldn't. Because even though I'm annoyed and I like you and I feel frustrated or scared, it has to be what's meant to be. Because if it's not your hell yes, then we're holding each other back, you know? So the letting go thing, you and I do that with each other. Like if I text you or box you, I have zero expectation of when you get back to me. I'm like, if she gets back in four minutes or four months, I feel, and I mean this, feel exactly the same. Like the four agreements. Don't take things personally. None of it's about personally. It's like, let people be. Just love people. Like, and then you have a zillion friends because they're like, oh, I can just show up. She, huh, totally understands when I can't. It goes without saying, you know, like it's the non attachment that feels really good in your life. And then it lets you just say what you mean because people have a weird response. They get to own that because you're not attached.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's so interesting because I feel like we go through seasons where we're really good at that in certain areas of our life and then other areas we're not. Like for me, I am really good at that with like my personal relationships or people. It's like I just, I don't take anything personally. Like, same thing if friends don't get back to me, even if friends are mad at me, if family members are upset with me, it just doesn't really affect me. I'm just like, oh, that's. That's. That's their deal. And that's okay. They're allowed to have their own experience. Like, it just. It doesn't really affect me that much. And I'm like, that has been a learned thing, right? Like, but I feel like, oh, my God. The freedom that I feel and the ability for me to love these people no matter what they do is just like. It's. It's insane. It's amazing. It's so great. But what's interesting is, like, I don't have that sense, that level of freedom in my business, right? Like, that's like a journey that. Like, I don't have that detachment. Like, I'm very, like, uh, what are the results people are getting? How satisfied are they? Like, what are they gonna think of this? Like, that still resides. Not, like, fully, because clearly I still create, I still launch, I still produce. But, man, I don't feel that freedom. And so I think it's really interesting that sometimes you can feel it in some areas of your life, and you have to acknowledge that, but other times, there are other places in your life where, for whatever reason, it's. It is more triggering. It's harder.

Speaker B: Okay, let me say this because for those of you who are coaching, which a lot of you, that's what you do. I wanted to say this out loud because I really feel this, and I think it maybe will be helpful. Uh, so I've gone through a whole, obviously, like, journey. I keep going through the journey. But one thing that's very liberating for me, and since I am coaching all the time and I run programs and events, and I'm constantly in that role, here's something that you could pick it up or leave it. You. You decide. I think it's really helpful. I'm not spending much bandwidth on that. Like, what are they getting? Are they okay? Are they coming back? Where are my clients? Like, any. Here's why. And I'm just going to say it, and then I'll unpack it, and then you can see how it makes you feel. I fully believe that it's not about me. I am, um. And you know this about me. I'm really, really pretty darn optimistic about how much I see in other people. In fact, that is something people tell me all the time, like, can I just be around you all the time? You make me feel so good about myself. Like, I'm just telling it like it is. I'm just holding up a mirror. Now, it might be insane, but that is really how I see the world. So for m. Me, I'm like, hang on. You know what you have inside of you? You know what you can do? You don't need me to tie your shoes. You just need to know what you've got. And so my job as a coach is to hold up the mirror so that you're like, oh, my God, I freaking got this. And it's on again. Oh, now it's on. It's really on. Because everybody has the ability to tap into their flow state to their greater consciousness, to God, to the divine, to all that. And all that they need is in that connection. It's not in me, but my job. It's, um, kind of like lighting the wick. It's like getting that pilot, uh, light to just turn into a flame. And so when people are kind of, like, having whatever experience they're having, like a moth to a flame, going back and forth, taking two steps towards their greatness and one step back, I'm like, that's all on you. And it is scary as shit. And it's the journey we've all been on. And I'm not confused about it. It's not about me. There's not actually that much for me to do. Like, if you watch the Karate Kid, you go back and watch it. Mr. Miyagi kind of sits back and just points. He's just a pointer. Abraham Hicks. She's just pointing. It's not a lot of energy. It's not a lot of effort. It's. It's literally the tiniest, most subtle tweak. It's like Tony Robbins says, the difference between hope and certainty is that it's like, I hope so, I'm certain.

Speaker A: Boom.

Speaker B: Boom. That's the move. That's how simple it is. So I just don't spend a lot of energy in there. I am so certain. And that's the signal. Let's call it. That's the WI fi that I'm putting out. And I give everyone the WI fi password. Once you get the password, it's that simple. You connect right to the WI fi. Now, if you're struggling to connect, I get it. Because that's what human beings are up against inside of ourselves. Our whole life. It's what Marianne Williamson said. Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate. It's that we're powerful beyond measure. And stepping in and owning that means taking up a lot of space. And most people, the way that we grew up was to try not to take up too much space. Because as a child, the moment we took up space like Moana, it was like, what are you doing? So the move is actually not about me, M to you. It's about you overcoming that hurdle in yourself. And what I do think is when you put out that WI fi signal over and it's like sonar, it's like a dolphin. It's like eventually people will just click on and choose the Wi Fi. But it's a decision. You go to Tony Robbins 20 times and not choose to hook into the Wi Fi. You could go, you could do everything. You could read every book. You can listen to Deepak Chopra, you can quote all these people. And you just don't choose to turn on your WI fi. Because at the end of the day, at some moment, it's going to come down to you choosing to be bigger, choosing to take up space, which goes back to everything we just said, which means somebody might peace out. Somebody's going to walk, someone's going to exit. It's like Elphaba, it's defying gravity. She says in Wicked. If that's love that came at too high a cost, that's it. That's what it takes. So I know how hard that is. I know that that's the human hero's journey, but I also know how easy it can be. And I also know that on the other side of just like turning it on, you're like, oh, now I'm having the frickin time of my life. Now I'm, um, really match point. Now, um, I'm really gonna grow. See, it's not like once you do that, there's not more fun obstacles, there's tons and. But now you're actually playing chess against someone who's your chessmate. Otherwise you're just playing chess against yourself. You can't even get to the game yet. So we got to get into the game. And how you get into the game is you got to choose to, like, get over yourself now. That's what happens, right? So for me, as a coach in a coaching moment, I'm just like, here's the signal, here's the signal, here's the signal, here's a signal. I know you got this. And then people have whatever experience they're ready for.

Speaker A: M. I love it. I love it so much. And, and you know what? I feel like this theme of kind of like coming back to yourself and just being confident in who you are and what you bring to the table is like just like beaming through me right now. Like, I feel that so hard in my gut because I think sometimes we get in this place where we think we need to be a lot more, we need to like give more in the coaching offer. We need to help them. Oh, they're not achieving this because we didn't add these 17 other things in there. And how can I add more and put more in there? Where at the end of the day, who we really are at this stage right now is like there are certain things that are gifts, our gifts, our strengths, what we really do. Right. Like I am, um, really good at. I, uh, love to write, I love the written word. I love to help people come up with messaging. And I'm really good at it. Like as a coach, I'm really good at seeing what is unique about this big generic life coaching business that you have. And I'm like, no, no, talk to me more. There is something really unique in there we can pull out. I promise you. I need you to talk for five minutes and I can pull that out. Right? Like that's you. That's my gift. Right. And so instead of me like leaning into that being like, that's my gift. That's what brings me joy, that's what's fun. When I'm in my fearful state, I'm trying to add all these other bells and whistles to it and I'm getting away from myself and I, and I say this so that maybe other people that are going through this can, can maybe resonate with this and us trying to overcompensate. And when we overcompensate, we're trying to over deliver, over function on all of these things. When we come back to ourself and we're really authentic, we can lean into our true strengths and gifts and really like own that, that lane, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah. I mean, yesterday we went to the Apple store and my daughter needed something for school, the school year. And I'm thinking like the Apple store is so clear that the bonus you get for buying the product is the product. You know what I mean? Like the bonuses that it delivers it, it's going to deliver what it's says it does. Right? Because it's an Apple. Right. And there's never a discount, you know, you're not going to find it somewhere else and price shop it like that's what it costs. And there's real power in that, you know, and people, people actually appreciate it. And it's always busy there and there's no bargains and no one's There for the bargain. They're there because it's like, you are Apple. We expect genius level things and then even with them, they're like, oh, but we're going to have a new one next year because this is only the 14 version. Oh, this is the 15. Oh, it's going to get better. Buy it or don't. It's going to get better. And even that is a really cool thing that they model because they're like, it's all in beta. We haven't even get it anyway and get it again. And it's just like, there is no. Oh. And if you buy this, it comes with this. It doesn't come with shit. It comes with what it is. And like, you're lucky to even have it. You're lucky to even find it in the store that it's available to purchase. And that is a pretty. That's a pretty baller move. The bonus is that you get what I'm telling you. I'm delivering you, period.

Speaker A: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Um, Kathy, I could talk to you forever. I want to be really. I want to be really conscious of time. You guys, I hope this was a helpful conversation. Kathy and I, if we don't look at the clock, it will be four hours later and we'll still be like.

Speaker B: And then

Speaker A: this too. Um, we can't leave like a one minute boxer for each other. They're literally like, to the max limit boxers. And it's just like, here's a podcast for you. Like, I'm going to send you a podcast back.

Speaker B: Like, I live for those. Like, I have like five friends in my life. We do that. I'm like, I hang on ever. I'm like, I, like, will save them. Like, I'm going to go downstairs and get my.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Enjoy it. Like, I'm watching my favorite show, but it's like, I love this character and I actually get to help her. Like, oh, my God, it's the freaking best.

Speaker A: The best. Oh, my God, I love it. Everyone's like, we'll stay here for hours. Amazing. Uh, well, you definitely can keep Kathy in your life. I want to make sure that everybody knows everything from, like, when your book is coming out, what you have going on right now. How can they get involved if you guys already aren't in her world? Like, tell us all. All the things Kath. Yeah, get in her world.

Speaker B: Get inside it. Get inside it. Um, we're actually doing a book club for anybody who buys the book. And it's just so much fun. What A smart idea. My friends, like, do a book club. Like, oh my God, any opportunity. I'm such an extrovert. Like, yes. So if you buy the book, which you can buy anywhere, um, although it's better when you buy it from indie bookstores because it helps the booksellers, it helps me, it helps you. It's good for the world anyway. But buy the book and then go to kathyhough.com book and let us know you bought the book. And then you'll get to be on these book club calls where I read from the book and then we do some, like, workshopping of it. It's just so fun. And it's free. Comes with the book. And then you can also follow me. I just started being so silly and doing, like, get ready with me, guys.

Speaker A: Oh my God, I saw them. I died.

Speaker B: It's only a.

Speaker A: Because of the way that you say it. Um, get ready.

Speaker B: Grwm. So I don't know what came over me. I'm so this person. And then I'm like, oh, my God. When I ask myself, like, what would be so silly and fun? I'm like, I. I'm. It's very much my personality to do it. It just literally never occurred to me. So I just put up a new one today so you can follow me on Instagram. I'm going to be doing this every day. I'm obsessed with it. It's so silly and dumb.

Speaker A: Love it.

Speaker B: And, um, I have a podcast and I love Kelsey, and you're in great hands because if you're already somehow in her world, then I probably like you and just think the world of you.

Speaker A: I love you so much, so much. And you guys, we love you too. Thank you so much for joining in on this. Get in on that book club. It's freaking amazing. And stay in Kathy's world and we'll talk to you guys later.

Speaker B: Bye, everyone.

Speaker A: Thanks so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. And as always, anything mentioned, any links, any notes, those will all be over on Kelsey Murphy.com in the podcast section of our site. So just head on over there to take a look. And if you haven't connected yet with me personally, I would love to meet you. Come find me on Instagram, Elsie Murphy, and slide into my DMs. Let me know you listened to this episode. Let me know what you thought. I love, love, love hearing from you or. Or come to the Whiskey and Work Facebook page and say, what's up? I would love, love, love to connect more. Thanks for being brave and amazing. I can't wait to chat next time.

Speaker B: Mhm.