From Seen to Chosen: How to Build Visibility That Actually Converts feat. Kim Antrobus

Speaker A: Hey, I'm Amy Atkinson and it wasn't all that long ago that I lacked the confidence to focus on growing my online business. Fast, uh, forward past many failed attempts and lessons learned and you'll see the business I have today. This podcast gives you all the tried and tested ways to grow your business through social media and digital marketing. You'll hear all my home truths and challenges, but also how to navigate them. It's time to get you seen, so let's get started. Hello everybody and welcome back to this month's podcast episode of the Simply Digital Marketing podcast. I am so excited because I've got the incredible Kim Antrobus on today. Kim Yas Queen 13 year old girl. We're still at peace. It's really coming back in, isn't it?

Speaker B: Uh, everyone's doing it but good. We need more peace in the world.

Speaker A: Oh yes we do. But let's not go into that right now. Kim is a next level marketing strategist who helps ambitious women stop negotiating with their potential and step fully into the spotlight for their motherfucking business.

Speaker B: I've tweaked it recently, Amy, because I had a brainwave. I help women break the found barrier.

Speaker A: Sonic boom, boom, boom baby. Welcome to the podcast, Kimmy.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here in my office.

Speaker A: Um, tell us more about you. So for those people that don't know who you are, they've been living under a rock. Tell us more about you.

Speaker B: Well, I'm an award winning innovative marketing and visibility strategist. So I help people get seen and get chosen. That is ultimately what I do. That's why I've come up with the idea of breaking the found barrier. But uh, one of the things that I'm really working on with people at the minute is helping them find their ex appeal. Um, I talk a lot about authenticity as I know you do as well, and being real. But I've slightly taken a different position on this recently because not just because everyone's saying it, but everyone's saying it. But it takes a little bit more than just being real and just showing up as yourself. So there's a little bit around that that I wanted to maybe talk about with you today if you're interested because I've got a bit of a, uh, I going to say be in my bonnet about it but I said it the wrong way the other day.

Speaker A: What did you say?

Speaker B: They all come out wrong at the minute. It's the per menopause. I try and say something and it just comes out completely wrong. And I'm like bonneting bees or something. I can't remember.

Speaker A: Do you have a personal story around this? Like how did you get to all of this stuff?

Speaker B: There's a few things really. I'm definitely that person who used to sit on potential. And I was more than happy to be the person on the sidelines in the supporting character role rather than putting myself forward with the main character energy that I show up with now. I was terrified of being seen and I would do little bits and then be like, well, no one's interested. And then I would pivot and then I do a little bit and go, no one's interested. And I was always showing up as myself, but I would just retreat all the time. And there was, I'm going to do a little bit of a trigger warning. There was a huge catalyst for me that made me change how the way I show up and that was losing my mum. So I lost my mom to cancer in November 2024. And at the time I was in a role as a marketing exec at a business and I was not really thriving, not really enjoying it, not really in control of, uh, how the marketing was going, even though I was meant to be. And it just, it hit me like a ton of bricks when my mum went. Because I thought, gosh, you know, time is not guaranteed, tomorrow is not promised, so today has to count and I need to stop making excuses to stay hidden. I have got a lot of different talents and I didn't need that job to get me where I needed to be. I just needed to back myself. I mhm. Think that's true for a lot of people. We're waiting for someone else to find us, someone else to come and magically stumble upon us and be like you, you're amazing like I am. But it's not gonna happen. Liam Neeson's not out there looking for me. No one's coming for you. No one's coming for you if they don't know where you are.

Speaker A: Your dad, that'll be cool.

Speaker B: Yeah, he would be coming for me. But no one's coming for you. Yeah, that's one of the things I did at one point I was like, your clients are not Liam Neeson. They're not coming to get you. They don't know where you are unless you start showing up and telling them, telling them what you're about, telling them that you're offering something that they can buy from you. That's a huge thing. Showing them how to actually invest with you, um, and leading the way. And you know, trust is built through that. It's through that showing up in uncertain times, uh, keeping going, being consistent and yeah, that's the real crux of it. So there was that little motivation. There's been a lot of different things but, but I've always managed to be kept down by, by my thought patterns, if you know what I mean. Keeping myself safe, not really pushing myself out there. But that was massively pivotal and I went from setting my business up and launching in March last year to being award winning by November. So massive, massive trajectory of visibility and impact which is what I want to

Speaker A: create for the people and being your, uh, like we're going to talk about this in more detail but you are uh, well and truly yourself online. Like no, no qualms or airs or graces, you just are, uh, you.

Speaker B: I mean it does, it does have to go through a filter sometimes, which I'm not very good at, but sometimes like yeah, I'm not going to post about that because we all want to post about things that sometimes I think it has to go through a bit of a filter of is this relevant? I, I really do believe that vulnerability is important and to share the ups and the downs. But sometimes, I don't know, sometimes I think we've got to bear in mind will this undermine things or will it help?

Speaker A: And yeah, yeah. To know what is the line? Right.

Speaker B: Understanding how you're perceived by what you're putting out is huge. And this is something that I'm working on with a client at the minute. You know, it's really one of my particular, one client in particular is getting her to understand that it's not just about being yourself. It's about understanding the perception that comes on the other side of that. Yeah, it's huge.

Speaker A: I have only just started sharing my story around, um, being myself but actually being properly visible. So I realized because I was pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, um, pushing to be visible, pushing to be in all of the right places, pushing to show up on social media every day. And some days it was really flipping hard. And there were some days where I really did not want to show up on social media, but I knew I had to in adverted commas and I was like, why is this so hard? Um, one of the things that I realized so I had quite recently actually it was only a couple of months ago, I had heart healing and I realized that throughout my life I've always been told by, in various different ways that I'm not good enough or, um, like shrink back, hide away. And whether that was because I was being bullied when I was at school, called bullied when I was in secondary school, um, either for the way I looked or for the fact that I wasn't a good friend, which was simply untrue. It's just like people being. People being nasty. And then when I was at, ah, my last ever employed role, um, I won't say the company, because I'm not going to go down that route, but one of the most senior guys in that company, which is a FTSE 10 company, it's not FTSE 100, it's a mass UK British company. Um, this guy had the ear of the CEO. And, um, I decided to wear a dress to work that day. So up until that point I was always kind of hidden in baggy clothes, trousers. I wouldn't get my boobs out, I'd never get my belly out, I barely get my legs out. I just would never do those things, um, to avoid having attention on me. Anyway, this particular day I wore a dress. It was lovely day outside.

Speaker B: It's a bit like what it is today.

Speaker A: And a guy messaged me. So this particular senior guy messaged me on, like, the internal comm system and he goes, that dress would look really good on my hotel room floor. This guy was married with kids. He was probably 20, 30 years older than me and he sent me that message and I'm like, oh, uh, I've just worn a dress and now look, look what's happened. So for such a long time, even though I was showing up on social media, even though I was doing things, I still didn't show up LinkedIn, I still didn't show up on my personal Facebook through fear of being seen, through fear of people really seeing who I am. And that's why it was so hard.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's usually something behind it, isn't there? There's something behind why we don't show up. And I think for me, a lot of it was, I never felt prepared enough. Like, even though I worked in law for 20 years before I went into marketing, I still never felt prepared enough. I couldn't believe I was going into courtrooms and, and being involved on cases, even though I knew them, I knew it. It was a confidence thing. I've always been, um. Well, I've always been. I've always had adhd, but I've always been made to feel like there was something wrong with me rather than being supported through that. I actually was quite a high achiever at school. So it wasn't really seen. And then I got to college and university years and I was like, I can't do this. I can't sit and make myself study. Um, and then that internalization of hating myself moved on. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear m on this. Sorry. Um, it moved on to. It moved on to becoming about how I looked. So he on that front, but mine was in a different way. I developed an eating disorder in my early 20s and the way I looked held me back for years. And I know off screen, we were just talking a minute ago, I was actually going to have a gastric sleeve because it's gone the other way now. I've gained a lot of weight. I actually wasn't able to have that surgery. And I thought, I can't. I can't keep holding back for that either. I can't keep using my weight as an excuse because it is not the reason. And that became almost fuel to show up, uh, regardless, because I thought other women must need this too, to know that it's okay because you see so many people being successful. But it's only when they've lost weight or when they're slimmer and that gets exalted and then it reflects back to us. Well, oh, well, I'm never going to be anything because I'm in the bigger body. And it's just not true at all. But it's what society kind of conditions us to feel. And that's the same sort of thing. Perception is everything, isn't it?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, um, it's true.

Speaker B: It's not reality, but it's what we perceive to be the case is that thinner people are more successful. I need to lose weight before I will be seen as an authority in what I'm doing. It's ridiculous. What a ridiculous tangent to be, uh, connecting.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's the thing, is it? The awareness of what we tell ourselves is so important, isn't it? And realizing. Well, actually that's a story that we're telling ourselves, which is holding ourselves back. But when you. So, okay, so let's say people have got this awareness now. They're realizing that, actually I do want to be visible. I need to do all of these things. I'm telling myself stories. And now I just need to go. And what they're starting to now see in terms of the content that's showing up on their socials because the algorithms are very clever and they're very good at knowing what it is that we need to and want to See, um, in our feeds. So they're starting to see. Okay, well, just be yourself. Because I talk about this a lot. Be yourself.

Speaker B: I do, too.

Speaker A: Yeah. But you want to take it that next step further, don't you? Because next level, yourself. Yeah, that next level. Oh, how convenient. Um, being yourself isn't enough.

Speaker B: No, not because being yourself isn't enough, but because that is the baseline. Authenticity now needs to be the baseline. Because we've done some research it recently. 97% of consumers are more likely to buy from a brand that feels genuine and authentic. 97. That's almost all of the people that were involved in that survey. Obviously not all the people ever, because they were all tested, but it shows up repeatedly in all the different statistics around this that people want real. They're not sure of what, who to trust, and they're more likely to trust someone who is genuine and coming across as authentic. So to me, that's the baseline. That's the currency. And it's then about how we invest that, uh, how we invest that to become recognized, to be seen and chosen and to be respected enough and trusted enough to buy from.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think what you're saying. Come on.

Speaker B: No, you go.

Speaker A: I was going to say just about the whole trust, because everyone's hearing this right at the moment. We're in a trust recession. And I love the fact that you're talking about how being. Being ourselves is the baseline. Being authentic is the baseline. Um, and you're so right. Like, we need to be really understanding that people have bought stuff before, whether it's a product from China, whether it's a service from America, whether it's a service in the uk. We've all bought stuff before because during the pandemic, we all went crazy and started buying all of the things online, so we couldn't go anywhere. But what that therefore means is that some things we've bought haven't been good enough. They haven't promised what they said they were going to deliver. Uh, even a flipping suitcase that I bought six months ago. The wheel freaking fell off. I was like, great. Well, that's a useless suitcase to me. So it doesn't matter what we're selling. You have to understand that your ideal clients have bought it before. So when we're showing up and we're. We're. We're being authentic and we're being all. All honest. We're being honest. Get your words out, Amy. And, um, we're doing all of the things. What does that actually mean? So somebody who is Being authentic gets

Speaker B: you a place at the table. So there's something in operations strategy that we call order qualifiers and order winners. So when you're looking at a product or a service, you're looking at the things that are the minimum requirements to get you a space at the table, to get you even in the consideration range. And that would be being authentic. To me, that is being authentic these days, especially as an entrepreneur who is in the space with a personal brand. Authenticity is the baseline. There needs to be something else. So what we would look at as the order winners. So people who are leading conversations, the thought, um, leadership conversations, people who have something they give a. About people who are standing by their values and showing up with those as well, um, it's leaning less from like, educational value content. I don't know if you've seen a bit of a shift from that because we can get so much from AI these days. People aren't looking for that, they are looking for real. But then what is it? What else do we give? That's what people need to realize. What, what is that competitive edge in the market? Because it's not just being yourself. It's not just that, uh, there's got to be something else. There's got to be something that stands out about the way you do something. Your personality, your style, your. Yeah. Your values. As I said before, they. They're the things that might make a difference to a customer. There'll be other things. Cost implications, quality, flexibility, dependability, the standard kind of performance objectives. They all come into mind. And everybody has a different level. They stand on these things. And it's finding your space. I think within the market that takes a bit of trial and error sometimes.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I. This is an. This is really important. Is that what you just said about AI, we have everything at our fingertips in terms of knowledge. It's just a case of knowing or understanding and realizing what those prompts should be in order to get the right information out of it. Yeah, we, ah, come into it and this is where as mentors, as, um, coaches, consultants, this is, this is why we're here, because we know the prompts to put into AI.

Speaker B: I love AI. However, I have a real issue with, um, there's been a lot of people talking about competition and copying. And I think we can't ignore the fact that, that because of the rise of AI, there's been a lot of brand homogeny where brands are starting to look and feel the same, talking about the same sort of things. We're in a sea of Sameness. We're in this conformity, um, marketing area as well, where people that. That's the idea where one thing's working and other people see it and they copy and follow suit. So really, we're looking for people who are innovators, the people who are doing things a bit differently, the people who are willing to take a son, take a stand and put my teeth back in, take a stand and do something different. Daring to be different, and then showing up consistently. I think that there's where the edges are, you know, genuine voices, lived experiences, and then real differentiators. That's where the, the magic zoo is for people.

Speaker A: Can we talk a little bit about vulnerability? Because we. You started vulnerability earlier. Uh, and, um, I think people are now starting to realize, okay, we need to be vulnerable. We need to be sharing the things. And one of the things I say about vulnerability is everyone, like, everyone's life lives. I, uh, can't tell you the amount of people that have voice noted me, DM'd me in the last week about life be life thing. I'm sorry, it's taken me ages to get back to you. Life be life in. This is. This is real.

Speaker B: That.

Speaker A: That's for everyone. Everyone has.

Speaker B: That is norma, doesn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It needs normalizing.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, um, so when it comes to showing up for your business and, um, doing the things that you really don't want to do on a certain basis, I tell people that don't speak from the wound, speak from the scar. So you go through the experience and you don't sort of, like, use it as social media content in the moment, because it's going to then come from a negative space like scarcity or I need help or support in this moment, which is not what we want.

Speaker B: Yeah. It can undermine the authority that you've created a lot of.

Speaker A: Whereas if you tie your vulnerable stories and your vulnerable moments back to a learning in business and an improvement, that's different because it's then starting to come from a place of. Yes, you're being.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I'm trying to say yes in a really powerful way there. Yes. Authentic. Um, you're sharing all of the things, but you're actually saying it in an authoritative manner. Yeah.

Speaker B: I think to be truly aspirational, we need to be talking from the leading, from the transformation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Not really stuck in the cycle because some people can get a bit stuck in the feeling of it. And that's why it's important, like you said, to not talk from the wound, to talk from the scar. That's where that sayings come from, isn't it? It's coming from the healed person. Look where I am now. I get it. And they can see then they've got that recognition and resonance which is so important for, for buying triggers and people feeling safe to buy emotionally seen in your content. They can see that. Uh, but they, they want to see that you're a capable, held together person as well because they need to trust you to spend money with you. And I'm holding you like a little borrower. Um, but yeah, they need to listen.

Speaker A: Can't see this hand gesture.

Speaker B: I like one of those grab machines at the arcade.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, what is it like the claw

Speaker B: that always lets go just as it's. I hate those machines.

Speaker A: So let's chat a little bit about then visibility and authority. Because people think, oh my God, I noticed this the other day. There's someone who I follow and again not calling names out, but she is like incredible in the online space. Um, people look up to her, people buy stuff from her day in, day out. She posts on average 20 times a day. And I truly believe you do not need to post more. And it was really interesting to me because it is a lot, um, it is a lot. And that was just on one platform, in one part of that platform.

Speaker B: I think there's this naivety sometimes and I'm not saying they're wrong because obviously doing well, but I mean from people seeing it from the outside because I've got people who are just starting out and they're like, oh, I need to post more. Actually, no. Intentional content will always be random stuff. And I know that sometimes your content won't get scenes. You've got to post more. But what else are you doing? There's not just content. Visibility is not just about your content, it's about where you're showing up. All the other trust assets, awards, pr, things like that. There's so much involved with a visibility, trust, authority building work. It's not just about content. So I think, yeah, I think to me, I don't post anywhere near that much and my visibility is really high. So I'm, I'm not of that mindset. I think being consistent is important, but maybe not 20 times a day. No, but I'm probably not making as much money as there, so maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker A: Not true. Um, she, so she, she posts a lot and she, she made a bit of a joke of it with me and I was like, my God, mate, you don't need to post that much. You really don't. But it's all about. You've started to talk about this because I talk about this a lot. It's like your awareness content, your consideration content, your opinion content, your sales content. She doesn't have that structure. She's just posting more. And that's, that is the difference between like creating content that has a sales flow, has your authority as part of it, visibility as part of it. I had someone come up to me at an event, um, a couple of weeks ago and she was like, how have you got what you've got with only two and a half thousand followers? I was like, there's this big myth that you need to have tens of thousands of followers to be successful. You simply don't. It's.

Speaker B: They're not, they don't correlate actually visibility and sales, although visibility can create demand when done well, they, it doesn't mean that they are doing well. They're not concurrent. Visibility can be seen. You can be one of the most seen people, but not actually generating that many sales, which is where I was when I started. And uh, and that is something I want to help people avoid. And that came actually, Amy, from that belief and so many people going, oh, Kim, you've got this wild personality. I love your energy. You're gonna do amazing. You must be doing amazing. You must be doing amazing. And it's like, well, actually, no. And then the depression set in and started retreating again. And then I had to give myself a slap around the head and get back out. But it's having the right mindset as well for it sometimes, isn't it, the way we talk to ourselves.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Talked about this earlier, didn't you, with me. And it's so important the way we talk to ourselves.

Speaker A: I had to. I've had a couple of clients. One that had like 50,000 followers, another one had 100,000 followers and they were like, I don't understand why I'm not making money. I've got so, uh, many followers. Like their content was continually going viral. And I was like, mate, when was the last time you actually sold something? It was like 10, 20 posts ago. I was like, well, what do you expect? You can't just put up one post and hope that you're going to make shitloads of money from it. There's a whole infrastructure behind it.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think there's a myth that you just put out content.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And sales is so much more than that issue. Connection with people, isn't it? Rapport building opportunities that are out there as well, there's so much work to be done behind the content. Yeah. And then it's very naive to think it's just about putting that content. I'm not saying that if you throw out enough lines, you catch, catch some fish, won't you? But yeah, I don't, I don't view it as a strategy. And I think there's got to be. Aside from visibility, it doesn't just generate authority. You generate that trust through trust building things like speaking at events. That's brilliant because you're actually there meeting people, they're seeing you in person, they're actually getting to interact with you. That's a great way of working your visibility to create demand that converts and also understanding the distinction between content that, that builds that recognition and resonance. You know, you were talking before about the awareness consideration. In my head, it's different to the ada, but it's very similar. But awareness, interest, create the desire and then action and it's that flow and understanding the psychology behind things, not in a way to manipulate, but understanding that people need to be carried and held on the sales process and feel like they matter. That's a huge thing for me at the minute.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Sales tactics.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, or a prospect in there. I mean, one of the qualifiers the other day was because I was fat. And I, uh, I'm getting to a point where I'm becoming quite blunt and will either say something shitty back or just block them. Block a roll.

Speaker A: Someone. What someone DM'd you?

Speaker B: I, I'm not following this person. I haven't raised a hand and liked any of their content. They were in my inbox trying to sell me supplements and a diet plan.

Speaker A: Oh Jesus.

Speaker B: Well, I hit the roof. I, I feel about this anyway because they don't know anything about me. They don't know anything about my history, they don't know anything about my struggles. They don't know a thing. And they certainly don't know that I wanted what they had. And one of my sales coaches talks about the hand raising, like building connection from a hand raise. Someone liking your content, someone engaging with you is one example of a hand raise. And I could understand if I'd liked something she'd put out but hadn't. I'm just fat. That's the qualifier for her. It isn't actually a qualifier, that's an assumption. And it's so dangerous. Mhm. So dangerous. How can we work like that? Where we just guess that people want our services with something as damaging as the way someone looks? I think is Pretty, pretty marketing. Next time they get a link to the course and you need some help.

Speaker A: Oh, my God, that. Well, this is what. I'm so tempted to do this. When I get cold DMS from people. You should probably feel the same as me. I just. I think you need my help. I think you need what I do.

Speaker B: I. I did reply to someone on LinkedIn the other day because he was like, what are you doing for you? What's one of your biggest challenges with your energy at the minute? I said replying to people like, you come into my. Like a couple of. It's so lazy. Like a couple of posts. You've seen it, haven't you? Someone becomes your friend. Like, like, like, like in your dm.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: I hate it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We can do better than this and we need to do better.

Speaker A: Come on, people, come on.

Speaker B: These are the things that are harming trust. And it. I saw someone say the other day that it's not a trust recession, it's a capability problem. It's a capability gap because there's so many people out there that are maybe not capable and are letting people down. And that's where it's coming from. But I think there is a trust recession because of that. That would be my view. But, um, yeah, it's knowing who you can trust, isn't it?

Speaker A: Oh, God, totally. And I think all of this starts with, like, you as a person, your brand that you're trying to create. The. Like. What is it that you're trying to create? Unbeknown, um, for, like, we've been talking about perception today. Um, like, what do you want to be perceived as? Or put like.

Speaker B: Yeah, how do you want them to feel? Do you want them to feel that they can trust you? Like, for example, an example would be a therapist. I would want to invest my time and money with a therapist that was showing up consistently that looked like they had their life together. I. I'm just using this example because I think it's a really clear one that was very clear in the way they work with people. I'd be looking for the testimonials to see how they've worked with people. Were just more discerning, I think, because so many people have been burnt. I think we had that golden era over lockdown where everyone was spending and like, bored a bit, but also desperate for something more. And there are a lot of promises out in the online sphere and people have made purchases they've either done nothing with or that have not fulfilled the promises that were made and they've been burnt. And I think that people just are a little bit more discerning now, so they need a bit more holding through the process.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So if people wanted to understand like, okay, so what do I want to be known for? Who do I want to show up as? You've got a quiz, haven't you? Your brand personality quiz. I uh, have.

Speaker B: It's, it's my way of bringing a bit of fun to it but with a serious edge as well. So if people wanted to take part in the quiz, it looks at your responses to the questions and it will say you're, you're mostly this. It's not, it's not an exact science. It's meant to be a little bit of fun with a little bit of um, value at the end of it. Um, and it looks at uh, what your absolute magic is. What is what your X appeal kind of could be your brilliance, but what is letting you down? What are your blind spots that you may be not looking at? Where are your leaks? Where are the gaps? And then it makes suggestions around that. For your next power move, K Pop Demon Hunters inspired your next power move, um, and how to make your visibility work better for you. And it's just a little bit of a tool to get people thinking a bit differently about how they're showing up and what works for them.

Speaker A: Uh, and it's got your injection of fun in it because, you know, one of your things has got to be fun, right?

Speaker B: Well, it, no, no it wasn't. But maybe you need to make it.

Speaker A: Everything that you put out is fun. Like, well, it isn't.

Speaker B: If you search back, you'll probably find some less than fun things. I do love fun. I like to think I'm, I'm quite high energy positive person and I like to put out content that mostly mirrors that. But I am a really firm believer, Amy. And I don't like highlight reels. I like to know that I'm not the only one. So I do see the value in people who, who share the story. But um, yeah, so I'm not always 100 Mrs. Joy, but it is a massive, massive, massively important thing to me. Joy and happiness.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so you've obviously talked about what you are posting. Where can people find you?

Speaker B: They can find me. I'm predominantly on Instagram. Kin Underscore Next level woman. I'm also on Facebook, just Kim Antrobus is my mostly posted on one and I'm also on LinkedIn. I've just had loads of subscribers to my LinkedIn newsletter. It feels like loads to me. 200 and something like nearly 300. Uh, I know it's a relatively new one as well. People give a about what I've got to say. Get me back on in a year. And if it's not gone up by more than eight,

Speaker A: I love that. Everyone, you can go and find the link, uh, to the quiz in the show notes. You can go and find all of the links to find Kim on all of the socials, in the search in the SO Notes in the show notes. I will put my teeth back in now. Thank you so much for coming on, Kim, you absolute legend. You are, uh, the best. I will see you all next month, everybody. Bye.

Speaker B: Bye.

Speaker A: Sam.