Sarah Biller: How Data Access & “What If We” Are Transforming The Future Of Fintech

Speaker A: Foreign

Speaker B: um, sarny. And you're listening to what the Heck Fintech where you'll experience and learn that fintech is fin life. Let's get started. Welcome everybody. You have a big treat today. I think we're going to have the most famous fintech person that this podcast what the Heck Fintech has ever had. Sara has done so much for uh, the country and beyond. She's international, she, she's a founder, she has Fintech sandbox. She is so connected. She's on boards, she's uh, I think involved with a bank now and maybe we'll get into that a little bit too. And how regulator. She knows it all. She is absolutely the most. She's fintech royalty. Come into what the Heck fintech. It's. I'm so, I'm giddy about this. This is unbelievable what we have. And Sarah and I go back a little bit the first time we met. A little story just to show you how things happen in life. So I retired from Fidelity. I had a good friend at Fidelity said oh, you know, what are you going to do in your time? And I go, I don't know, I'm thinking through so oh, you gotta talk to Sarah Biller. She's doing so much. I'm like, oh, Sara Biller, right? So this was seven years ago, almost, uh, close to it seven years ago. I, I reach out to her, we set up a time to talk. Then here's what's interesting. It was a weekend before I was going to talk. I'm like, I'm walking in with my wife to the Red Sox game and I go, I think that's Sarah Biller in front of me. And so I said hi. She's probably looking at me like, who's this old guy that's dressed like a 13 year old going to the game? Because I'm all in gear, I could go on the field and no one to tell the difference except for the gray hair, right. And, and uh, I'm always dressed for whatever ever sporting event I'm doing. I'm full gear, right. So you know, we, we just talked quickly and actually running into the game and then we met the next day and, and that was before I joined wpi. And she was, oh yeah, this is what I'm doing and try. And I'm like that sounds awesome. And so then fast forward, I want to say seven months later they started, they started thinking about Mass Fintech Hub, but it wasn't even called Mass Fintech Hub. And then I see who's invited. I Was on the wpi, got the opportunity. Oh, yeah, I get to be involved. And um, I saw Fidelity there. I saw a few names I knew. And then I see Sarah go. I know Sarah, right? So the rest is history. I have learned so much from Sarah, met so many unbelievable people because of Sarah. What she does is amazing.

Speaker A: She.

Speaker B: There are stories. I know so many of her stories, but there's so many I don't know because she's doing new stuff every single day. So. So Sarah. I know I just took a big chunk of it. I'm just so excited that you're on this podcast today. Uh, how about you give a little player profile yourself and how you got into this? I mean, I know you're at Fidelity, we overlap, but we didn't know each other, you know, at Fidelity at that time. I'd love to hear your story. And how did you do. Do what you're doing from, from West Virginia to what you're doing in London. I mean, you're all everywhere. Okay, I'm going to shut up now. I want to. I can't wait to hear.

Speaker A: Well, Rob, can I just in. In response to that really overly generous introduction, um, it does reflect the reputation that you brought ahead of yourself because I actually did know you at Fidelity. You didn't know me, but I knew you because of how valued you were by your colleagues, um, by your leadership team. And so the idea that you are devoting this chapter of your life to advancing fintech, lifting up the next generation of talent, bringing the same enthusiasm you bring to the Red Sox that you bring to this wonky world of financial services and technology. It's just been, I think, my honor and pleasure to, to know you in this, in this world, in this life. But having known of you before because of how well regarded you were throughout your career at Fidelity. So thank you for a chance to.

Speaker B: Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Um, I'd love to hear how you started on this fintech because I mean that could have been a Fidelity part. Even before Fidelity. Like how did you get into this stuff?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that you probably, you and I, we probably diverge a little bit on our path. I am not a career financial services executive. I'm a mid career shift into a topic area I loved. Um, I did study finance, um, in the universities, um, that went to WVU and West, uh, Virginia University. Since you mentioned Go Mountaineers, um, and uh, gw, but really, uh, entered into financial services on the side, the transaction side. I joined a, uh, company, uh, very early out of College that was taking um, both parts of the company public. It was separating in two. So I got exposure to the capital markets, um, but even before I got there I worked uh, on the mortgage desk of a bank. And the bank sold the mortgage desk during the 2000 period when we all know there was a housing crisis. So I shifted gears there and worked for the chief technology officer, um, of a large firm called ams. And there got exposure firsthand to the technologies that today underpin the way that we move information, um, around the economy. So started a little bit in financial services, promptly shifted into tech, into a professional services organization. Got exposure to the capital markets and how they work and the criticality there of understanding data in all of its forms, um, and what it meant to a company trying to explain why it had value in the stock market. I then went into the telecom sector and was on the venture capital team of a Fortune 50 telecommunications company called MCI. 1, 800 collect is how my parents always said this is what she's doing. Um, because growing up in Appalachia there was not a, you know, not a full, fullsome knowledge of venture capital or investing. And then that from there had, was uh, on the founding tomb of two life, uh, sciences companies. One completely went bankrupt. We failed. Best lesson ever again around this thematic, around how do you aggregate um, unstructured data in a way, in our case advanced clinical drug discovery. And then our second shot on goal was actually taking a product to market. So I was on the, I was the CFO of a team that acquired intellectual property of a naturally occurring property. We synthesized it into a chemical, you know, into a drug. And that today is um, in the, in the world of sort of orphan drug status around pediatric inflammation. And only then did I find my way to Fidelity. And that's where we crossed paths. So I had a whole life before financial services, but really came to appreciate and love the uh, notional idea that financial services can be impactful, can be used to solve challenges. We saw that every day at Fidelity helping people retire securely to save for their child's education. And from there left Fidelity to start my own company in the predictive analytics space for institutional debt investors. And Rob, that was my springboard into intersecting technology, um, and early stages of natural language processing, machine learning to solve a challenge that then presented itself through the credit crisis. But as they say, it's not really history from there. Right. You and I then came together to think about fintech in its most fullest extent. So long winded way of saying I got here through A long and windy path.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think we all came all different paths because Fintech, it's been life. I mean a lot of times it's more about the people than the actual tech. How do you help people? And you do nothing but help people every day with what you're doing. And I'd love to hear the story. How did you meet David Jenkins and how you guys co founded Fintech Sandbox? Because that's amazing. Which led to uh, Boston Fintech Week, which I'll let you tell that story. So. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Speaker A: Let you take it from there, Rob. That's such a great question about how I met David Jagin because that really set you and I on this intersecting path. Um, and it really fits with the origin story of um, Fintech Sandbox, the mass fintech hub and all this work that we do. So I had, as I said, um, was at Fidelity, really saw during the credit crisis, um, and just before it actually this need to begin to think about the aggregation of data different. Um, I had studied uh, a Master of Science in Finance at gw Modern Portfolio Theory really talks to us about key factors um, that are in our, you know, in our risk models. They're the ones, you know, they're the French Fama factors, their interest rates, their cash flow, um, you know they're various, various very steady state factors. And what I was very interested in was factors that were transient in nature and that were non financial that were also creating uh, risk in the corporate bond sector. So investment grade bonds, high yield bonds, as well as the CDS marketplace. So again that thesis of uh, how can we look at um, uh, things that we're moving in the marketplace differently rather than remaining in a static positioning state with our models. And I left to build a company called Capital Market Exchange with some guys that I had worked with earlier in my career. Uh, it was a timely moment because we were beginning to understand that there was informational value not just in the research reports that institutional bond investors were writing about these portfolio managers, but the ability to lift that information up off the page and put it into a quantitative model. So just like we had looked at the factors that were impacting the way that a body, you know, metabolizes a naturally occurring product to chemically synthesize it. And where did you hit the toxic, you know, how, how toxic was it to the body? Depending on your weight and your sex and your age, there were a whole host of those very similar factors that if you will, that could, that same thinking could be applied to the bond market My challenge was I couldn't get my hands on the data once I understood those non financial factors. A good example is uh, uh, in the technology industry when they sell debt to the marketplace, their ability to service debt in the future. No surprise because we price equities on this or stocks on this idea is how well they can persistently innovate. The bond market needed an analog for the way that innovation got captured in the public equity markets. We chose the number of patents as an example to represent innovation. That data today it would be pretty easy. I just throw that in ChatGPT and I'd know in 30 seconds how many patents Nvidia has relative to other chip makers. In the mid 2000s that was really hard to do. It sat locked in a lot of market data, company products and that's uh, one example. But there are countless others of non financial factors that I needed to quantify. I was unable to get my hands on that data even though I had raised venture capital funding for my company because it's a costly procurement. It's a costly process to begin with. It's quite expensive to buy data. But the procurement and friction, uh, the friction, geez in the procurement process itself is also very hard to do. I couldn't get my hands. David say I couldn't navigate either aspect. And speaking to David who for those of on who are your listeners? Many people know David for what he is. He's just not one of the most astute investors in the fintech space globally. He's a critical thinker, he's an emp. He has empathy for the founder. Um, he's an extraordinary listener. And for people like you and I who use a lot of words, it's a really amazing moment to have someone who can break through them, break through that sort of logjam and say your problem is this. And he'd heard the challenge of accessing data from enough entrepreneurs that he then followed the statement to me and said what if we did this? What if we started what is today the fintech sandbox? What if we enabled entrepreneurs like you to get their hands on data, to do a proof of concept to really demonstrate to the industry that there is a new way of intersecting traditional. Remember I was working in financial models that haven't been improved since the 1940s. M. What if there's a better way to do that model and intersect it with technology so you can augment your understanding of the behavior of the financial markets in my case to quantify risk. And what if we went to the data providers and asked them to help us do that. Not to be an impediment to innovation, but to walk in lockstep with us. And I think it's kind of that revelation when a bumblebee is like, I shouldn't be able to fly, I'm fat and I have little wings to fly. Wow. The data providers actually saw a pathway for new innovations for their data new customer segments. Right. Because we, they have a potential when they see us give data. To skip ahead to what Fintech Sandbox does. We provide free access for six months without taking equity to some of the most important data sets and alternative data sets today in the world. We work with over 40 data providers across five where our entrepreneurs span five continents and 20 plus countries. And we, we work with those data providers to unlock the key to their data and put it in these innovators hands. But it was all uh, because David listened to the problem that the founders were having and asked that important question, not how does it work but why does it work and why doesn't it work and what if we did something to solve it? I met David through that moment of just distress. My company was not going to progress without data. And now today we hope that no entrepreneur anywhere, um, does not have that impediment to access to data.

Speaker B: Wow. I mean I remember my first um, time, I think it was the first um, Boston Fintech week. I saw a panel and they're talking about it was a startup and I actually forget who the startup, probably a billionaire now. But going through fintech Sandbox and saying how data, ah, you know, he's doing all the coding. He actually said he was in a shed, you know, he didn't need like a place, he was in a shed coating and but he said the biggest expense is data. And fintech Sandbox gives me that opportunity so I can advance because the data is uh, not just difficult, it's the most expensive too. And you're offering it uh, you know, for that, for that period so they can get ramped up and really have real data to figure out how can I help people, how can I. And it's, that's, I was like, I get it after. And that was my first now that was six years ago. That was my first um, Boston Fintech week. I was like, I was like, I mean I'm in right? I couldn't. Amazed. Yeah.

Speaker A: And that entrepreneur by the way is one of the co founders of Fintech Sandbox. In my mind, in spirit, it's John Fawcett. He goes yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. He built Quantopian which was a crowdsworth hedge fund algorithm. It shared the returns with the, with the um, individuals that were coding in the algorithm. Little. So he, you know, his access to data allowed him to build on this thesis to where he was acquired. Acquired by 0.72. After the acquisition he went into Robinhood and led again the next level of equity trading for one of the firms that seeks to democratize access to the financial markets. Right. And share in the value that's being created with the individuals who do that. Since you're such a beloved professor, Rob, I taught at Brandeis. Right. At the graduate school, um, in their fintech curriculum. And Quantopian enabled my students to access their coding library because I thought at the graduate level if you're really going to be a disciplined executive in financial services and fintech, you also needed to have the hands on experience of coding. I can't tell you how many students hated me for making them code, but how invaluable Foss give back to the community was that. He put their coding library in, into the hands of the next generation of builders, the next level of students. And so it all, Rob comes full circle. You do a little bit of good here and then the next person does good and the next person. It's like those chains when you're in Starbucks and someone says I'll buy your coffee and then you're like well I'll buy the guys behind me and the guy behind me. That's the best of financial services that we can create that value chain.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That path forward.

Speaker B: Right. Help each other. It takes a village to figure this stuff out and to figure out even who to talk to and who can you talk to and why would they want to talk to. And you offer that in so many different forums. And I'm going to pivot a little bit but still stay with fintech sandbox. I mean one, I mean on a side note, your team's unbelievable. They get so much done, um, and they pull it off every single year. The most amazing week and it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. But you're, you, you have a lot of international now coming into the, into your fintech sandbox. You're in London, making it happen. Like how is that happening? Putting the Boston scene from West Virginia to Boston to ah, London. Wow.

Speaker A: Wow. You know, because you're, you are the center of a core of individuals who themselves want to go out and do good. I see it already. Um, we've tried to hire your students as you know, because you have created this next generation of individuals who understand that the movement of capital. First off, we are a globally interconnected financial system. And uh, the good that we do here in the United States has innovation ramifications across the globe. But conversely in a lot of these areas where they don't have the infrastructure hurdles, frankly that we have, or the regulatory framing in which in the US you're confronted with when you try to be an innovator, those innovations are coming right back at us when we work with an entrepreneur that's in Latin America or in East Africa or maybe today. We had a great example is we actually were um, addressed at Boston FinTech Week two years ago by the Assistant Secretary General at NATO because they saw that fintech innovation or innovation in financial services would be the first line of defense. And they were seeing that in Eastern Europe the ability to avoid kinetic warfare or men and women in the trenches on the ground was to actually create strong, resilient, hardened economies and financial services system systems that exchange of value. Today we're seeing happening at the Munich Security Conference where US Innovation and financial services is helping NATO and conversely coming back here. But it's true of our, I mean I feel this way as a daughter of Appalachia, right, of our underserved populations who may not always have access to the technologies that you and I have in Boston, um, that are, you know, underserved. Ah, or historically underserved from the financial literacy standpoint. We at fintech sandbox, we rob, you and I and others that are participating in mass FinTech hub are building that next generation of capability that makes sure that our financial services sector, no matter where we are, it works for everybody. That's a big important thing, right? It's good for our business. It works anytime and anywhere we are. You need not be in our urban areas or in our financial centers to be part of this global system. And so that to me is sort of what's powered this dream. Uh, um, and the curiosity about innovation that's happening, um, in different segments, wanting to be always around the next generation of innovators, which means frankly 20 and 21 year olds. Um, you know, and so there's a, there's a lot going on that we could rabbit holes that we could go down with that very question, like, wow, why global, why now? Um, but it just, I think it's root is, is empowering innovation everywhere.

Speaker B: Wow, we hit the global side now. I'm going to bring it back a little bit back to the United States a little bit because you travel you talk to regulators and you have that, uh, beautiful, uh, social, responsible view of what's going on. What do you see? I know we talked about the Massachusetts area. Let's talk about outside now and the connections you have and even back to West Virginia or wherever, because you are so connected. I'd love to hear your take on that. Where's our opportunities for FinTech and to help more people?

Speaker A: So rob this, this idea of having sort of a national footprint and in key areas, not just with innovation and data, but also kind of, uh, contemplating where policy become, becomes an accelerant of financial services. So I do think, and the opportunity to sit with policymakers, um, has been something that has been a bit organic for me. I had, um, an opportunity, um, just by sheer the fact that I had a tragedy happen. My mother passed away extremely suddenly in 2017. And my dad was in this little town in West Virginia and he was by himself. Do you know, he had his community. But, you know, as the oldest daughter, I just couldn't bear to see my young father who just lost his best friend and my mother, um, be, uh, there. And so I was home in West Virginia helping him. I was doing laundry when an opportunity presented itself to help the state of West Virginia. We don't really think about it as an innovative state. I mean, and it's fair for no one to think that, um, contemplate how it could expand and diversify its economy. And I partnered. I, um, actually was tapped by someone that's been a longtime mentor and someone I admire greatly, John Chambers, um, from Cisco, who is also a West Virginian, to think about where could we help advance innovation in this, um, very small economy, uh, very much single, oftentimes thought of as a single economy because of its focus on extraction in the coal and timber areas. And John said, why don't we just, why don't we build an ecosystem where entrepreneurship can thrive? And the best way I knew how to do that was to begin to have a base in categories that were fintech. Was Fintech or fintech adjacent. Financial services and health. Financial services meant that I understood cybersecurity and digital identity. Financial services meant that I understood how to really create new, innovative products around infrastructure, smart infrastructure, whether it was advanced surface transportation or energy. As you go through those exercises, as you begin to frame out a plan to do that in an area that almost time has stood still in the most beloved way possible. I hope everyone who listens today visits West Virginia for its beauty and its culture and its people. But it's an Untapped environment for talent, for the ability to build the next generation of innovators, um, solving problems that are resident in our rural populations in the US and as I mentioned to you, for me, the core of it was to use the discipline that we have been using across the past 20 years to innovate in financial services for no other reason than that's all I knew how to do. Like, you have to take the talents that God gave you and figure out what to do with it. And, um, I was fortunate to be approached by very positive legislative environment who saw our ability to motivate capital to bring in new industry. In about five years, we were able to activate about four and a half billion dollars of capital into the state. And what the policymakers asked was, what would you do next if you had to really be a place where innovation happened? The state of West Virginia was willing to take up, uh, the idea of a fintech sandbox. It was the ninth state in the country to do so. I'd already had a chance to participate with the FCA in the United Kingdom when they started their regulatory sandbox through work at State Street. I had met with the Monetary Authority of Singapore and understood what was going on there. And so the conversation just flowed. I can never take credit for any of this work singly. It's because of people like you, Rob, that are present everywhere, that have industry experience, they know how to navigate certain environments in which to advance innovation. And I think if anyone doubts what we're doing in Massachusetts, it's because they haven't been there. Where the spark has been lit, to sit in these rooms, to see where people come in and collegially gather around a table and advance ideas that help make, in our case, what you're working on and what you're leading. The most active place on the globe, the number one place when you're trying to innovate in financial services, when you're a young student trying to work your way into a job. I mean, that's, that's what it takes. It takes people who, you know, will create that spark. And I'd say on the policy side that it's been my, um, good luck to sit with people who are wiser, smarter, and more attuned to these types of things, who, who want to marry it with the idea of how do you kind of roll up your sleeves with a pickaxe and shovel and make it work? You and I are the pickaxe and shovel side of the table equation. Right? So that's, that's Kind of. And I think it's happening across the country.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's gonna be my last question. And, uh, in. I've seen you keynote speak in many events, events that I was putting on. You were so gracious to show up to and wow the crowd. And I. And I've, um, seen you say this multiple times. I like to hear a little story maybe how. How did you come up with this? But it's a saying that this hits me like, wow, what if we. And you used it a little while before. How did you. That is such a powerful. I like to hear a little bit of background on that and the meaning behind it. You said it quickly, but let's get into that. I think that's your mic drop moment. You know, is that saying. That's huge. What if we. I want you to take that away.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, Rob, okay, I. I can't count the times I've said to you, what if we. And look what happens today. Uh, before I even brag on you for a minute, Rob to mic drop. I do want to say this. The what if we. Don't forget that came from a problem solver, an individual who sat across the table. That was. Those aren't my words. Those are David Jagens.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Part of the problem, you know, part of the challenge we have in innovation is asking the right question, determining the problem you're going to solve. Right. And then the other part of it is execution. David brought that framing question that you and I are so fixated on. What if we. And so the big thing that he's. I think that's embedded in that is what if? Which is the aspirational idea that we cannot be stopped by any hurd that we. Of our, uh, making or artificially. But the second is we. What if we put people around the table who themselves feel like they're part of the solution. They have responsibility, they're respected, they're asked to bring their knowledge. Particularly in a category like fintech, Rob, because it's not just a financial services question anymore. Fintech is embedded in our healthcare system. Fintech is embedded in the way that we move, you know, supply chain. Fintech is helping our farmers grow food. Right. And get it to market. And I think I would leave us with the idea that we is important here. And you are an architect of we. You, Rob, because you're doing this podcast, because you're bringing these students, these bright young minds to bear to see themselves as part of. Part of the fintech community and the solution solvers. And then Also bringing industry on the other side to talk to them, to empower them, to see a whole new category of innovation. We are at the most important inflection point in financial services since the launch of the Internet. The whole movement of AI is an enabler in financial services. And is that, uh, and I don't say it lightly, and I don't say it to, to kind of, you know, be an echo chamber of what we're reading in the press. We are at a moment in time where we have an opportunity with the right minds, asking, what if we use this next generation of, uh, technical might for the betterment and good of society? You, Rob, thank God for you doing this every day, asking us to tell you what we've done, when really, Rob, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you and thank you for sharing the message that fintech can be a force. It's a force for fun, it's a force for life. And I think we agree it's a force for good. So thank you. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. So what? That was unbelievable. I mean, fintech has been life. You hit on all those aspects. I mean, uh, your stories, what you do, how you do it, how you connect people, how you and David are making it happen. And here's the amazing part, is that every event that, that we put on together, or you put on, or I put on, it's growing. Every, every, every event is getting bigger than the time before. And it's amazing. Me, I'd never, uh, imagine that seven years ago when we sat down for coffee. It just shows you fintech is finlife and it's all about the people. It's really not about the tech, but the tech is a huge enabler. It's not about the finance, it's about the people and connecting with people and networking and getting students. That's the lifeblood of this whole thing. And I learned that all because of one coffee we had together right in the financial district of Boston. I remember it clearly. I remember that day. I remember. And then I. And then I go, I got to bring this message. I was like. And so inspired. Wow. So, Sarah, I want to say thank you so much. What? Uh, wow. And I learned so much. Our audience learned so much. Uh, thank you. Thank you again. And you'll hear me say thank you, Elisa, a thousand more times in probably the next year or two. Um, but I really mean it. Thank you so much. And wow. Thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm going to say thank you back to you, Rob, because again, you have become this spark for all of us. So thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thank you. Okay, I want to say, hey, thanks everyone, uh, the audience, for coming. And hey, uh, have some fin fun out there. That's what it's all about. Okay, bye now.

Speaker A: See ya.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to what the heck? Fintech. Make sure you tune into our next episode as we continue to interview fintech leaders and share real world stories from across the fintech ecosystem. So you can fully understand that fintech is fin life.