258 | Ticker Tape Tickets

Speaker A: This is Top Floor with Susan Berry, episode 258. You can find the show notes at, uh, topfloorpodcast.com episode 258.

Speaker B: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Berry. This weekly podcast, Ride up to the Top Floor, features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Berry.

Speaker A: Welcome to the show. Dan Jacobs is a chef and restaurant owner based in Milwaukee where he co owns the restaurants Dan Dan and Esther Ev. He has spent decades working in professional kitchens and is a familiar face on TV shows like Top Chef. Dan is an advocate for independent restaurants and for awareness of Kennedy's disease, a neuromuscular condition he lives with. Today we are going to talk about what it really takes to build, break and rebuild a restaurant concept. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button. The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Lynn, who asks, what were some surprising things you experienced or observed on your first TV show? I'm dying to know. Any behind the scenes surprises or was it just a surprise to be there?

Speaker C: You know, I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B there. Um, my first show was Beat Bobby Flay and this was back in 2018. Um, it was crazy how structured it was and how long the day was. I think, I think that's what got me more than anything else. Um, and that time was real. You know, like when they say you have 15 minutes to make something. You have 15 minutes to make something.

Speaker A: Oh, interesting.

Speaker C: That's it.

Speaker A: I would have thought that there was maybe a little bit of like fudging on that end. What did you make?

Speaker C: The first ever thing I made on television. I, uh, we had 15 minutes to make something using fresh masa. I had never really worked with fresh masa before. Um, so I remember that you can kind of flatten it and then just throw it in the fryer, which is exactly what I did. And made like a, ah, salad with a bunch of raw sliced vegetables and made like a dressing with fish sauce and lime juice and some sugar and called it a day. And I beat the kid, um, who I went against who tried to make shrimp tacos, which I was like, uh, in 15 minutes.

Speaker A: It's a little ambitious.

Speaker C: Yeah, you just don't have time for anything. And I think that's the thing, you know, more so than anything else is you have to be able to realize the time and what you can get done in that amount of time. Like, you can't just, like, don't, don't get too ambitious. Don't cook something that you've never cooked before. Like, just kind of stay true to yourself and who you are and, you know, make something that you can execute in the amount of time.

Speaker A: Interesting. So if the time is short for preparing it, what is it that makes the day so long?

Speaker C: It's, it's just all the resets and interviewing. I mean, that's the thing too is like, you watch these shows and they, they cut to you interviewing, you know, talking about your dish or talking about what your thought process was in that point. That all happens after the fact, and that's like three plus hours. Um, after we shot Be Bobby Flay, that's what we did. We, we just did that. Um, I think one of the other things that surprised me was the adrenaline crash from something like that.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker C: Like, you're so jacked while you're doing it, and then as soon as it's over, you just, man, you crash hard. Um, and that's always something that, like, you know, as I've gotten older and had to, uh, and I've done more of these, you just kind of realize that there's. The day is still going on. So you kind of pace yourself a little bit better, I think.

Speaker A: Are you able to avoid that adrenaline crash or does it still happen?

Speaker C: I. It'll happen from time to time. Um, especially if you end up doing like two competitions in a day or something like that. It's hard to, like, it's hard to. You just gotta, you gotta find. Find it somewhere that, you know that, that well of energy to get back up and, you know, continue doing it. But, um, you know, it's, uh, it's always different. I mean, every, every show is different, every challenge is different. But, you know, you just kind of go in there with a. I go in there with a real positive mindset and I just try and have fun.

Speaker A: Well, you didn't start out as a television superstar. How did you first get into professional kitchens?

Speaker C: Um, I was 19 years old. I was. I just moved from Chicago to Door County, Wisconsin for the summer. And that's. Those of you unfamiliar. Door county is very much a resort, um, type area in Wisconsin where, you know, Chicago, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Green Bay, people come, you know, they go up for like the weekend. They do, you know, the small town thing. Uh, Like Harbor Town sort of thing. And um, I moved up there when I was 19, uh, with a buddy of mine who was going to the army. We just wanted to spend a cool summer. And uh, I, you know, I didn't really know what I was doing, but you know, I liked cooking. And I got a job as a short order breakfast cook, uh, at a place called the Cookery in Fish Creek. Um, and uh, you know, it just kind of spiraled from there.

Speaker A: When you were short order cook, did you know how to make everything that was on the menu or were you just like trying to figure it out as you went?

Speaker C: I mean, I was figuring out as I went. It was, it was lucky. The, um, the gentleman who was the owner of the restaurant was also, uh, in the mornings with me and he kind of, he was very patient. Um, I think one of the big surprises was that we deep fried our French toast.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh.

Speaker C: Blew my mind. Like, I was like, what? Um, and just like the flat top was everything. I mean you had this 6 foot flat top and everything went on there. Eggs, hash browns, bacon, sausage, pancakes, you name it, it was on the, it was on the flat top. But I always remembered when the nighttime guys would come in, they come in at like 2:00 clock and start setting up their stuff. And occasionally I would say a little bit later and helping to prep or something and um, they would do like stir fries and stuff. And I was just like fascinated by, you know, those guys were always like, those guys were so cool.

Speaker A: They're pushing the envelope of the flat top.

Speaker C: Yeah, who knows? I mean that was, I mean that was 19. Uh, I mean I didn't, I, at that age, the pinnacle of dining, at least in my mind, because this is what we had growing up was like the local Chinese restaurants and Red Lobster. That was my pinnacle of dining. That's what I had to, uh, mark things against. So everything to me was fascinating at that point. But being a natural kid, um, you're not going to wake up at 4:35 o'clock in the morning. And that job did not last very long. It was only about two months. And then started working nights, uh, at another restaurant called, um, the Inner Cedar Crossing in uh, Sturgeon Bay. And uh, from there, you know, that was the first time I think I was surrounded by people that had like chef coats and people called each other chef. Um, again, still had no clue what I was doing. But you know, I, I, um, you know, I was a quick learner. Uh, the chef hired me because my T shirt said Nobody knows I'm Elvis. He thought I had a fun sense of humor. And, uh, that was it. You know, six months later, uh, uh, the sous chef there was like, you got to get out of here. Like, you're. You can't stay here. You got to go back to Chicago and go do, um, you know, go to culinary school. And so that's what I did. I went back to Chicago, started, uh, culinary school, and, you know, that was about it, and then just started working around Chicago.

Speaker A: And what was the point that you ended up in a hotel kitchen?

Speaker C: Uh, that was much later. I mean, I had been working in independent restaurants up until there's a couple. Like, I worked at a lettuce entertain you restaurant, which was kind of corporate, but for the most part, I worked in independent restaurants up until about 2000. So this was 97 when all this. When this started. And, um, I started working in a hotel in 2005 was the first hotel I worked in. Gotcha.

Speaker A: What's the difference? If you just had to describe it to a layperson, like, what's the difference between working in a hotel kitchen versus independent restaurant? You know what I mean? Corporate.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, totally. I mean, there's pluses and minuses to both of them. Um, I think as, you know, as I've worked in both, I've realized that I'm definitely more geared towards an independent restaurant than I am a structured environment like a hotel, because you're Elvis. Hotels really, like, lend to structure, um, and lend to systems. Um, and I think these things are important, and I think they're especially. As I've gotten older, they're important, but at the same time, like, that you lacked that freedom to kind of, you know, do anything you wanted. Um, and I think that was. That was tough. Plus the hours. I think that's something that people don't realize because the hotel's open 300, which means you work. Our busiest day of the year is Thanksgiving at the Ritz Carlton in Chicago. Busiest day, Thanksgiving. And, um, you would. Everybody had to work on Thanksgiving. And for me, that was, like. That was a real shock. You know, it's. I had to work Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve, but I was off Christmas Day. So either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day off, depending on how you celebrate. Uh, but I was also the lowest on the totem pole of the sous chef, so I basically just got kind

Speaker A: of shafted when how to take what you could get. It's interesting because I moved into hotels after working for independent Restaurant Group. Um, I Like ran the catering part of that business. And for me, going from off premise catering for this indie to a hotel, my quality of life improved like so dramatically because I just got to work eight to six every other weekend. And at that catering company I worked eight until eight the next day. Every single day I slept in my car, you know what I mean? So, um, I, it's interesting to hear and something else that I wonder about. I don't actually have a great, well phrased question for this, but I'm around, we're around the same age and sort of late 90s hospitality. I feel like hotels always felt like where you went to get benefits, you couldn't get them, um, at an nd and maybe that's changed now, I don't know.

Speaker C: I mean it's changed a little bit. Like we try our best to do as much as we can. Um, you know, we uh, you know, I think early on started, you know, reimbursing people for their health insurance, like finding like, go out there, get it on your own because you're going to get it cheaper than we can get it through a plan. That's the toughest part in an independent restaurant is you don't have the buying power that these large corporate corporations have. So you don't have that ability to, you know, really drive the price of health insurance down. So it would actually be way more expensive for us to even pay half of everybody's health insurance than it would be for them just to go out into the marketplace and for us to reimburse them for their um, insurance. So we do as much as we can now. But that's only because I, like you grew up in the 90s where that was not an option. There was no such thing. And it's funny because I remember being a 25 year old kid and being like, health insurance, I don't need that.

Speaker A: Oh, totally.

Speaker C: And there's still 25 year olds that work for me that don't believe in it. The one thing I do stress that more than anything else, this is something I wish somebody would have beat into me at 20. Uh, 5 was 401k. Like start your 401k as early as humanly possible. If somebody offers you 401k, take it, give as much money as you possibly can. Because basically, I mean I started my 401k over 40 and I wish I would have started when I was 25.

Speaker A: Well, we were talking about health insurance. You talk publicly about living with Kennedy's disease, which is a neuromuscular condition. What do you want people in the industry to know about that?

Speaker C: So kidneys disease is very similar to als. It's progressive in the fact that you lose control of motor skills, uh, muscles. Um, the way. I guess, let's go back, um, kidney disease is, um, it affects the neurons. These are your receptors. So your brain sends messages to these neuron receptors that tell your muscles what to do, whether it's like grip something, thing, you know, point your finger, whatever it is. Um, mind neurons are smashed. So we get pieces of information that come from my brain so you don't get full utilization, um, which leads to like, muscle wasting and loss of strength. Um, which is really what, you know, it's kind of, it progresses over time. Um, you know, I was diagnosed 10 years ago before we opened up Dandan. And uh, you know, at that time I was still running, I was playing basketball. I could still do a lot of these things. Now I can't do any of those things. Like there's, you know, I wear braces on both my legs just to walk around. If I have to walk long distances, I have to use a cane. Um, um, you know, even when I'm competing in between competition, I'm using the cane the whole time. Um, um. And it's, you know, it's tough. I think one of the things that's stolen from me that is, Is, uh, the hardest one to kind of replace is, uh, the fine motor skills. So doing things like turning, uh, artichokes or peeling potatoes or peeling garlic in these mundane tasks is I think, where my brain, at least this is how my brain works. Like, that's where my creativity kind of flows. Like doing a mundane task puts me into a interesting. Which allows like, creativity just kind of pop up and just kind of do its thing. Um, losing that, that's, that's the hardest thing is trying to find ways to replace that and trying to find things, um, that you can do in that same way. Because it's got to be, it's got to be a task you can do without really thinking about it. So you can't really be in front of a computer and, you know, in the same way. So that's, that's always, that's the toughest thing I think I've had to replace. Um, and it affects people differently, you know, which is also crazy. So my brother, who's a year younger than me, also in hospitality, um, he has kidneys disease as well. It's hereditary and we both have it. Um, but he's still, I mean, up until was It. Last year, he ran the Chicago Marathon every year. So, I mean, it just. It affects us so differently. Um, you know, some people who it doesn't affect, uh, like, physically as much have more internal issues, like, they have trouble swallowing, trouble breathing. Those are the things that I think are the scariest, because that's where, you know, your real quality of life, I think, really kind of tends to drop. For me, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to, you know, keep doing what I'm doing, whether it's having to use assisted devices like canes, walkers, uh, wheelchair. I don't care, as long as I'm still active doing stuff and, you know, being involved in the things that I love to do.

Speaker A: Well, it's hard to transition from that to my next question. It's like a little.

Speaker C: Always is. It's never.

Speaker A: It's a very abrupt move, so just be cool about it. When you are deciding whether a new restaurant concept is really worth opening, what are some of the things that you're weighing? This is what I really want to get into in terms of our conversation today. How you're making the decision about X versus Y. Does that make sense?

Speaker C: No, it does. Um, and it's something that I think we talk about a bunch because we haven't really opened anything new in a while. It's been. It's been since, like, 21, I think. You know, and that was because we had to reconcept something after Covid, because we still had a lease. But even then, it's like, we haven't really opened anything since then. Um, you know, I think one of the main things is, like, do people actually want this? Is there a need for this out there? Um, you know, if there's a saturation of steakhouses, why would I open another steakhouse? You know, what's going to differentiate my steakhouse from Joe Blows down the street or whatever? Um, you know, I think that's one of the things, uh, that made Dandan so unique is there was nothing like it when we opened it up. You know, um, same thing with Estref. There was really nothing like it when we opened them up.

Speaker A: Talk through those two concepts briefly, if you would, just to. For folks.

Speaker C: Sure. Dandan, um, is your Midwest, uh, Chinese, like, American Chinese food? Um, it's the stuff that I ate growing up, the stuff that I loved eating growing up, and it's my comfort food that I go back to time and time again. I always believe when. If we could open something up that gave me joy, that I could translate that Joy to other people. And it, and it has worked. I mean, We've been here 10 years and it's, we're not going anywhere. And it's, it's, it's a, it's a strong business.

Speaker A: It's interesting, uh, with that concept because what you said before about like, is this something people are really going to want? I'm guessing the community of Milwaukee wasn't like doing a Change.org petition for Midwest style Chinese food. But then when they got it, they realized, so there has to be some sort of, like, there's a gut feeling there.

Speaker C: And, you know, and I hate to say this, but I feel like, I feel like it's like, it's like 70 or 80% super hard work. Um, and then the other 30, 20, 30% is just being lucky. Opening up the right thing at the right time in the right space. You know, kind of catching a little bit of lightning in the bottle. The restaurants that I've seen, especially here in Milwaukee, that have succeeded have pretty much been like that. The restaurants that have been here for a long time, they found a way to catch lightning in a bottle at. And you know, that was it. Um, and I think, you know, it's, it's tough. That's. I think the restaurant industry right now is the toughest business to be in. And I try to talk. Anybody who's interested in opening a restaurant or getting involved in this industry, I immediately. First thing is try to talk them out of it. This is truly a labor of love because you're not making any money. I remember. And we'll go back to the 90s here for a second. I was working in a restaurant, uh, called Naha in like 2000, um, 2001. It was in Chicago. It was owned by Michael Nahabedian and Carrie Nahabedian. And I. This is something that stuck with me forever. Michael said something, I think it was, you know, uh, a few years ago, we were having dinner and he said something to me that stuck with me. Um, but it's in the 90s restaurants, you know, you, you, at the end of the month, you were netting 20, 30%. It was great. You know, and nowadays, oh man, if you had double digits, it's like a banner month. I mean, we're not, we're not even getting close to double digits anymore.

Speaker A: Wow. What is that?

Speaker C: I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker A: No, just. What would you attribute that to?

Speaker C: I think there's a lot of things I think, you know, um, you have the rising cost of rent. Rent never goes down. Rent is not what it was, you know, it's just, it's not what it was. The cost of a burger has not changed that much. But the cost of rent, labor and the cost of our goods have changed significantly in the same amount of time. If you go back, I mean you're looking at, at a uh, 60 or 80% price increase on those three main factors as opposed to the cost or like the what people are charging for a burger hasn't changed that much. You're looking at like maybe a 10 or 15% change from 2000 on.

Speaker A: I always think about the labor piece. I'm not directing this to your concepts or anything like that. But in hotels, specifically hotels were able to, to find their leverage by underpaying people for such a long time in certain roles that when the pandemic happened and they started to having have to compete with like Amazon delivery doordash, blah blah blah, raised labor costs, they lost that leverage. Margins are shrink, shrink, shrinking. Plus all of the factors that you mentioned, like cost of goods, whatever, there's a pro. It just seems to me that there is a problem if a business model M is predicated on leveraging cheap labor. You know what I mean? Like, is it a business? Probably not, right?

Speaker C: No, I mean it's not, it's not. But it's also like I think the expectation of um, the diners also has to change a little bit. Like we're looking at, you know, going out to eat is just going to be more expensive. Like there's no way around it. I mean it's, it's, we are not capable in a business that is only netting 3 or 5% at the end of the, at the end of the month is not able to absorb the costs and so they have to be passed on to the guests. I think that's why you see the uptick in the 5% surcharges for credit cards, you know, or you see um, people switching straight to you know, uh, a no tip model where it's just a 20% service charge. Um, I think you have to, there's going to be different ways that we can do this. But you know, if you want your independent restaurants to survive, the number one thing is people need to go to them. I think that's the, if anybody could take anything away from what I'm saying, support your local restaurants. Because if you, if you love your local tiny restaurant that's on the corner, go to it.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Like otherwise it's not going to be there.

Speaker A: You alluded to this a little bit. Earlier about having to change a concept because you still had a lease. When you look back on concepts that sort of didn't make it, was it the idea itself or something else? Just like Covid is a perfect example of this.

Speaker C: I mean, Covid was tough. I mean, we had a French restaurant in a very old building where the H vac system, which was run by the, um. Which was supposed to be serviced by the landlord or was serviced by the landlord, uh, was about as old as I am.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah. It was held together with some duct tape and some twigs and, you know,

Speaker A: little raccoon running the business in there.

Speaker C: Oh, my God. But in the summertime, the AC would break, and it'd be 85 degrees in the dining room. Or in the wintertime, the heat wouldn't work, and it would be, um, you know, 61 degrees in the dining room. So you're at a French restaurant eating, you know, was it sauteed skate wing with a, you know, butter sauce there in 85 degrees in. In a nice, like, suit or something? And, you know, people just weren't. They. They. They had that experience.

Speaker A: They didn't enjoy that.

Speaker C: It was tough.

Speaker A: Um, interesting.

Speaker C: It was really, really tough. And it was one of those things where, like, it was impossible. Just. It just was what it was. And so, you know, we did the best. You know, you did the best you could, but you couldn't do anything with this. And, you know, then Covid hit, and, uh, you know, I think we were just starting to kind of make. I think that that business or that restaurant was just starting to, like, footing a little bit and kind of. Kind of, you know, see, like, you know, things were getting fixed and, you know, whatever. And then the pandemic happened, and people didn't want French takeout. They wanted Chinese food, pizza, you know, things that you, you know, in inherently have takeout. Luckily, our one business was a Chinese restaurant, and we were crushing takeout. So we just moved. We were able to move pretty much everybody who was over at the French restaurant over to the Chinese restaurant who was willing to work at that time, um, because we needed the hands.

Speaker A: Okay. And so the French restaurant is what became Esther of no.

Speaker C: So the French restaurant became a restaurant called Fool's Errand. Because restaurants are a Fool's Errand.

Speaker A: It's a great name.

Speaker C: I loved it. It was really fun. We did, like, American comfort food, so just really, like, Monte Cristos, cheeseburgers, fried, uh, chicken, macaroni and cheese. Like, nothing complicated. Um, it didn't survive because it just Never. It didn't make enough money to make it worthwhile. Like its busiest days were always like lunch and brunch. And um, you just don't get your check average for lunch or brunch is a third or half of that of dinner.

Speaker A: So it's not enough booze at lunch anymore.

Speaker C: Oh man. And it takes you twice as much to catch up. So, you know, in order to do the same amount of numbers you do at dinner at 100 with 100 people, you're going to have to do 200 people. And so it just, the business just didn't really model out, especially in that space. And we ended the lease and were able to move on from it. Um, and then SREV was always. SREV was actually inside of Dandan. So we had this room that we had built out inside of Dandan that sat 20 people. And they were on two tables, two 10 top tables sitting communally. And I would serve everybody, we would do 10 courses, serve everybody at the same time. Um, it was almost like, oh, that sounds fun. It was almost like a dinner party. The idea behind it, as a kid growing up, um, my parents table always had a lot of people at it. Whether it was kids from the neighborhood, dad, softball buddies, mom's works for work, friends, um, my uncle, my grandmother. There was always people. And so it didn't, they weren't that some people didn't know each other. And it was always interesting, kind of just like being, being a fly on the wall and listening to conversations. And I kind of liked the idea of that. Like it was almost like a social experiment. And dinner at the, um. And it was great and it worked. But then during the pandemic, people didn't want to sit communally any longer. So we broke up that room, broke up the tables. And then, um, when I went, after I got back from Top Chef, I did well and I knew that we could really kind of bank on that, um, if we were to open SREV in its own unique space. And I just happened to be driving by and the perfect space came up. It was just the perfect size, perfect space, um, in, in the neighborhood me and my partner Dan live in. And it was just, it was great.

Speaker A: This episode of Top Floor with Susan Berry is brought to you by Lodify. If you run any kind of hospitality property and you're relying entirely on third party platforms to fill it, you're giving away a cut of every single booking. And you don't own the guest relationship. Lodg Fi gives you your own direct booking website. So Guests can find and book your property. It's not complicated to set up. It looks professional and every booking that comes through it is yours with no commission going out the door to somebody else. They also have tools to manage your calendar, your guest messages and your listings all in one place, which saves a ton of time. Top floor listeners get 20% off on all one or two year plans with the code Top Floor 20. Go to lodify.com or the link in the show notes and use code TOPFLOOR20. We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of the show with practical, specific things they can try either in their businesses or in their personal lives. What do you think operators should be vetting about a space, besides the concept itself before they commit to a lease? It sounds like I already know the answer. HV H vac.

Speaker C: H vac is a huge one. Um, like first off, like you're, I, I always liked before when we look at spaces, I don't want to have to put in money on anything that I cannot take with me. So, uh, H vac, so any sort of, anything like that. Um, especially your hood system system. Like you're not, I, I, we would never do a restaurant where we would have to put a hood system in. It's one of the most expensive things that you're going to put in. Plus you can't take it with you.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Um, and so those are those, I think those are the two big things that we always look at same, um, thing with like, is there, are they going to cover costs for like plumbing and electric? Because these are the not exciting things. Like for us. I'm willing to put in money for your FF&E, your furniture, fixtures and equipment, but I am not willing to put in money to bring a space to a white box, which is basically like your electric and plumbing where it needs to be. That's up to the landlord because again, these are things that you cannot take with you. Um, also like realize that your rent has to be 3 to 6% of what your intended, um, net sales are going to be at the end of the month. Because if that doesn't work, if that equation doesn't come out, you're not in the right place. You got to look for something else.

Speaker A: Uh, oh, that's a good tip. I don't think I've ever heard that um, ratio before.

Speaker C: Oh, that's something that we like, we live by. Because, um, your rent, garbage removal insurance, electric and gas has to be under like 8% in order for you to be able to basically make money.

Speaker A: Got it. Everybody take notes. What about when a menu or a concept isn't landing? What's usually the first thing that you try. Try changing or how do you. Or do you just change the whole thing?

Speaker C: I mean, I think. I think there's, you know, first, it's like just taking a real good look inside. And are you doing this as a vanity project? Is this something that. Are you doing this because, you know, you want to tell people how to eat, or you have to realize that, like, you know, who's your customer? I think that's. You take a real good look at yourself, and you take a look at the business, and what do you actually want out of it? I mean, a lot of times, you know, if you, you know, it's in the first year or so, you're like, all right, this is either working or it's not working. Um, and you. At that point, you have to be able to adapt to what it is. Like, um, you know, this restaurant is this. It's not what I thought it was going to be. And got to find a way to make that. Make that work. Um, or you got to find a way to get out of that lease, which is, you know, harder. Harder to do than just kind of, you know, figuring out, well, how to make this thing work and just, you know, get through. Through it.

Speaker A: It's so funny. Every time I ask a question like that of a restaurant person, I expect them to say, first thing we do is look at the general manager, or, first thing we do is swap out the chef de cuisine or whatever it is. And it's always this answer. Are we trying to force square peg into a round hole? Are we trying to tell the consumer what they want versus them listening to what they say? So interesting. It's so interesting to me that that's as universal as it is. I would not have expected that.

Speaker C: Oh, it's almost always our fault. It's almost always. It's almost always you being vain and trying something that, like, you know, maybe just doesn't work.

Speaker A: Interesting. Well, what about from a personnel side? What is something that tells you early on that, like, a young cook in the kitchen has. Has real potential?

Speaker C: Did they bring a notebook? Did I have to tell them, um, to bring a notebook? I think is a. Is a. Is a great. Like you. You can always tell the good ones from the bad ones right away. And it's usually the ones that, you know, bring a notebook and are taking, you know, crazy amounts of notes on stuff.

Speaker A: Oh, I Love that answer. That's so good. Well, we have reached the fortune telling portion of the show. So you have to predict the future and then I will come back and let you know if you got it right. What is a prediction that you have the future of independent restaurant concepts?

Speaker C: I think you're going to like I'm, you know, I'm such a glass half full guy. Um, like I'm a perpetual optimist. But like, I think with this one, I think you're going to see less

Speaker A: independent restaurants because of the cost piece.

Speaker C: Just because of the cost, the cost of doing business like in the. And it's not just the, the money cost of it, but also the mental and physical cost of, of doing the business because it's your man. Talk about, talk about sleepless nights and know, just being exhausted, like it is what it. Like that's. You have those moments. And I mean it is truly a labor of love because this is not the way to get a boat.

Speaker A: Well, something that I think is, I've maybe observed this is probably like, remember where you heard this? This is brilliant insight on my part. But so many independent restaurants have to find investors now. And it used to just be something that someone could do with their family or their business partner or whatever the case may be. I guess that is sort of a way to lead into. If you could wave a magic wand and change something about how independent restaurants get funded, what would that be?

Speaker C: I think, man. So, I mean there's. If I could wave a magic wand and change the way independent restaurants get funded, um, I think,

Speaker A: I mean, you can say the magic wand drops a, ah, garbage bag full of $100 bills in my restaurant.

Speaker C: Having a no strings attached grant program would be great. Um, having the federal government subsidize us as we are the only. I have this weird feeling in the future that, um, we're going to be the only employer of real human beings because AI can't actually do our jobs 100%.

Speaker A: Absolutely. TR.

Speaker C: Government will subsidize us for employing people.

Speaker A: Interesting. You know what would be a crazy idea is if the federal government gave everyone health insurance and then you wouldn't have to be subsidized because your cost of doing business would decrease.

Speaker C: But that is, we wouldn't have to compete in the labor market for people that have to take jobs that have to get insurance, because I think that's another big thing. Yeah, you look at, you look at earlier this year, we, we lost those extended benefits, um, for the aca, um, and you know, we had people, we lost people. And I'm not talking about your regular line employees. I'm talking about your executive chef, your director of operations types who had to take jobs to secure health insurance for their families because they couldn't afford to pay the premiums that were now going to be, you know, two, sometimes triple what they used to be.

Speaker A: Mine. Ours. Almost triple.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you got to figure that out. And it's, I mean, I mean that's, that's, that's tough.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, let's turn this into a political show. I'm just kidding. Let's move right along. We're gonna head down to the loading dock because that is where all of the best stories get told. Going down. Dan, what is a story you would only tell on the location voting? Doc.

Speaker C: Um, so I, I thought about this one for a bit. Uh, there's, we had this, um, we had a New Year's Eve, um, and this was during the pandemic. Uh, so we were doing some inside dining. This was early pandemic. So it was maybe like, it was maybe, you know, New Year's Eve, 21, going to 22 or something like that. I, I, I have, there's vague memories as to which New Year's Eve this was, but we had set up at the time we were using Aloha as our POS system and we had had them make sure to set it up so that we would only get five orders, um, every half hour for it to go so that we could keep up with the amount of people that were going to be inside dining at that time.

Speaker A: Um, uh, that's so smart. I never would have known you could even do that.

Speaker C: Well, well it didn't. This is where the story gets fun. So instead of, um, so our Aloha representative really screwed up super hard and they, instead of putting in for five orders every 30 minutes, they put in, they allowed five orders every minute. No, at, uh, 7:00 clock there was, we have a 60 car parking lot out here. Every parking spot was full. Um, it was, there was, you know, there was literally they would do a rail full of tickets and then there would be a stack of tickets just waiting to go. And there was no helping the poor expo. It was, it was, it was, it was one of the most nightmarish, uh, services I've ever had. We gave out, I think it was almost $3,000 in gift certificates that day because I, people waited two hours for their food. They were supposed to pick up their food at 7 o' clock and we hadn't even started the 6 o' clock orders yet.

Speaker A: Um, first of all, my stomach hurts. Secondly, I'm hearing that ticket machine. Oh, my gosh. And were you able to recoup any of that loss from the person who made the mistake?

Speaker C: Aloha did pay for all of the gift certificates. Um, you know, and then there was like. There was like, some. There was some free for a while, but we ended up, uh, parting ways. Aloha. Shortly afterwards.

Speaker A: I mean, I'm not surprised that there's too much competition in that arena to allow for those kind of mistakes. Holy crap. That just. I'm like, having a little bit of a panic attack on your behalf right now.

Speaker C: It was. It reminded me. So, not that there's this show I think people call. It's called the Bear.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I wasn't gonna say it, but it is that total scene where they're like,

Speaker C: oh, uh, God, anxiety inducing. I remember watching it. I watched the first season with my wife. Um, and I really did enjoy the first season. Um, and I remember we were watching that episode and I was, like, cringing on the couch and like, like grabbing. I don't remember what. She's like, are you okay? And I'm like, I don't know. This is terrible.

Speaker A: It's ptsd. I mean, I don't even own a restaurant and it freaks me out. I have not watched the last season. I can't watch it.

Speaker C: It.

Speaker A: It's too. I can't.

Speaker C: I don't know. It's. It's. It's not what it was. It's. That first season was really Good.

Speaker A: After that, 100% agree. Well, Dan Jacobs, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners loved this conversation as much as I did, and I really appreciate you riding with us to the Top Floor.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. I really, uh, I had a great time. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening. You can find the show notes at Top Floor Podcast Forward slash Episode Forward Slash two five eight. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. And. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the Top floor podcast@www.topfloorpodcast.com. have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630. To be featured in a future episod.