214. Meg Adams: How to Adapt a Story to Different Audiences

Speaker A: Inspiration, success stories, expert advice, strategies, new ideas, and amazing conversations. Everything you need to become a great speaker. This is Oscar Santolaia, and welcome to Time to Shine. Hello and welcome. Today we're going to discuss about advanced storytelling techniques, something very interesting. And for that, our very special guest today is Meg Adams. Meg Adams, PhD, is co founder and CEO of Homeplace Creative. Upon receiving her PhD in rhetoric and writing from Bowling Green State University with an emphasis in digital storytelling, Dr. Adams founded Homeplace Creative as a visual storytelling company devoted to helping organizations tell impactful stories across media platforms. Her TEDx talk, How Storytelling Shifts Perspective, provides insight into what she believes in the power of storytelling. She also hosts a, uh, weekly podcast called the Storycraft Podcast, where she interviews professionals across industries to learn more about how they apply storytelling techniques in their work. Hello, Meg.

Speaker B: Hi, Oscar.

Speaker A: Welcome. Great having you here.

Speaker B: I'm so excited to be here and talk about one of my favorite things. Don't always get the chance to talk about it. So thanks for having me on.

Speaker A: Very welcome. Please tell us first, what was your journey to become, um, speaker and storytelling coach and everything you do today?

Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, I, uh, I started out my career. I was one of those really weird kids in school that sort of always knew what I wanted to do. I, uh, knew that I wanted to be a writer. So storyteller isn't really a job description. And in seventh grade, you take those career tests. They gave us a career test and I got the job journalist. That was a suggestion for me based on that test. It was like a personality test. And, um, and I ran with it. I really enjoyed, uh, my high school. We had a television station a little. I gave the announcements every morning at high school, and I loved it. And so I became a broadcast journalist. I went to college and majored in, uh, journalism and political science and spent a few years in front of a television screen and realized that I didn't, I didn't love, um, I didn't love the speed of the job. I often got in trouble. I remember getting in trouble for talking to people for too long. Oh, you have, you have to get your stories done today. You can't spend all this time learning everybody's backstory and you only have like a minute on air, right, to get this whole story out. So I felt constrained. Um, and so I left. I decided to go, uh, into teaching. I was like, well, you know, maybe I just teach storytelling. Like, that sounds like a pretty cool job. So I went back to academia, um, ended up getting a master's in education and then mentored into the PhD program where I got my PhD from a university called Bowling Green State University here in Ohio. And I had the opportunity to work on a documentary project during my PhD and it was a storytelling project. And it was a really interesting premise. Um, we worked in a state called West Virginia. Uh, often a lot of people in West Virginia are stereotyped here in the states, um, for many reasons. And so one, the idea of the premise of the documentary called Hollow, which uh, is an interactive documentary, is we gave residents their cameras. And this was back in 2009. So before our cell phones had cameras, they were the split cameras, if you remember those. Oscar. I don't remember they. And, and we um, funded that with grants. And the goal was to my. What I ended up researching was how access to sharing their stories and using a camera and then having a platform. So the stories, uh, were featured in the New York Times and the governor, um, held an open forum, uh, with the storytellers. But the goal was to help them speak back to some of those story, uh, stereotypes and uh, create some goals that they envision for their community. And we worked with people of all ages in telling their stories. And so it was a really cool project, uh, that sort of launched my career into being a professor now, uh, and then speaking. You know, I really, through my research over the past. It's been over a decade now, researching how storytelling not only helps businesses and organizations, um, communicate and connect with people and build engaged communities, um, but I helped individuals do that as well. And then I teach speaking. I just generally fell into like speech classes and um, teaching brand storytelling and things like that. And so. And in between all of that, Oscar, I know that sounds a lot. My husband, who was also a broadcast journalist, he and I started a company. So it's a video storytelling company. We work with small businesses or. And organizations, all kinds, across. All kinds of indust. That you could think of. And we help them tell their stories and we use video. But it's the same premise. We really believe in all of that. All of my work, I would say the thread is that I love helping people discover their stories and I love helping them communicate their stories so that they can connect with other people and really engage and start to build community. So I've done that in every facet of my career.

Speaker A: Thank you for sharing the story. Very interesting, very compact. Tell us many interesting things. Of course you have been doing since your very first career on um, broadcasting and you felt that um, you needed more stage time, I believe Longer stay time. You are now into storytelling. Excellent. So I will ask you a few things. Um, let's say a bit more into the technical side, how to tell better stories. So let's imagine most of the things we're going to discuss today under the assumption that we already have the story. It's not that we are going to compile a story, build a story. Okay. There's a story already in front of us. Either it's our story or maybe it's like a tale, folktale, some famous person life story. But the story is already in front of eyes. How to perform, adapt it to deliver the best possible to our audience. Um, one question that I will ask you first as a clarification is sometimes we hear the, uh, there is a narrator of the story. So what is the narrator and what is a storyteller? That's also. We talk about storyteller. It's the same, different. What is, what's the difference?

Speaker B: That. Oh, that's a good clarification. I guess it just depends on the way you think about it. I don't know the technical answer to that, but in my mind I see the narrator. Um, I've always seen the narrator. Like if I'm reading a tale or telling a tale is someone sort of contextualizing the story for us. So maybe it's not. It could be your story, right. If you're narrating the story, um, and then the storyteller can be one in the same. Like the storyteller to me is always the person, um, as you mentioned, that's sharing the story. So I guess they're similar in some ways. I guess maybe the way to answer that too is to start with the definition of storytelling. I see it as a narrative driven act. So my work, uh, is I really focus on personal driven storytelling. So as you mentioned, that sometimes looks like people sharing other stories. So sharing the stories of someone else or maybe some folktale or maybe some famous scenario, uh, or experience. But I'm always trying to help them thread that into their experience or weave that back into their perspective so that they can share their perspective with someone else. So narrator, storyteller, it depends on I guess how you look at the definition and where you sit. But I'm. Regardless of whether I'm helping someone weave someone else's narrative or someone else's story into theirs, usually I'm helping them help other people see something from their perspective, regardless of what that purpose in telling a story is.

Speaker A: Mhm. To see, see some, some perspective so the audience see some Perspective. Yeah, uh, the perspective that the storytelling decides.

Speaker B: Yep. Yes, that would be yes. Because I see, I guess a good way to explain that too. And hopefully this helps answer your question is I really see storytelling as ah, the bridge from one perspective to another. I think that's the magic of it. I think whether it's a folk tale, whether it's a fiction or a nonfiction or your personal story, I do believe that story storytelling allows us to widen our perspective, to see something new or fresh or different. And then that helps us connect to each other better as human beings.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. I think there's something you mentioned in your TEDx talk, which I watched. Yes, Shifting perspective indeed. How to adapt a story to different audiences. Let's say you have a story can be again, your story is someone else story and depending on the audience that you're going to address, how to adapt that story.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love this question because I think sometimes when I work with people this uh, is where they get tripped up. They get really overwhelmed in. Okay, I've had this, you mentioned this earlier too. This storytelling model I could follow or this storytelling model and I need to fit it into this method. But I think what you really need to start with is paying attention not so much to the story or yourself, but to your audience. Who are you telling the story to and what do you want them to do with it? So what's the purpose of telling the story? How do you want your audience to feel right, to get them to that purpose? So you, um, can take many different scenarios. So I always use the one, um, you know, if I'm telling a story to uh, I could tell the same story to my 5 year old to get him to eat his vegetables at dinner. It's. I, I can't, I can't share that story to my 13 year old the same way because they don't, they don't understand diff. They have different levels of understanding. Um, I'm going to include different details to get my son to eat those vegetables. Um, but this is the same, like I could tell the same story. Uh, I can give, here's a bet, maybe a little bit better of a business example. So I give a, uh, keynote talk about storytelling which you heard in the TEDX talk. It's a version of that. I recently gave that talk to a group of female entrepreneurs that were local to me here in Cleveland. I did not share, uh, I shared a specific story about taking my daughter to dance class as opposed to sharing a story about my work in, with my documentary project. Because that was to a mixed audience of men. It was a totally different audience. So I always adapt my presentation based on the audience and I'll think of my own life and I'll think of what's going to connect with them, what's really going to help them see themselves in my story. How can I get them to connect and see themselves in my story? Well, if I'm talking to moms and it's going to be different than if I'm talking to um, a group of business professionals or you know, a group of a dental association. Right. So it's just, I love adapting. I think that's really important because I think too, uh, we live in a society like, which is wonderful. We have all these technological advancements. I can talk to you today, uh, over zoom in Finland, which is just, I just think is so cool. Um, but I can't. I have to. We are overwhelmed with stories, we are overwhelmed with media constantly. And so I think to get people's attention, you really have to think about them. What's in it for them, how can I connect with them, what story, how can I entertain them to get them to connect with me? I'm always thinking about that. And so I'll adjust all elements of my stories with them in mind.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's something that, let's say when I started, um, building my own stories, finding my stories, kind of crafting them, I first created a first version and I thought that I need to deliver the same version because that's a story. The story is, let's say it's written, it's ready now you have to perform. That's what I saw the first. And I think many people think like that at first. But yeah, I think it needs to be adapted to the audience

Speaker B: and you can just. Sometimes it's not. You could just adapt some details. Right. Sometimes it's just like, oh, I think that this detail would really land here. I think this is the piece that's going to help them connect to me. Um, and other times it's just throwing in a whole new story to make the same point. So. Mhm. Yeah, I think that trips a lot of people up. I think you want to be an effective storyteller, you have to think about your audience first.

Speaker A: Exactly how often do you have to, to adapt with? Are you working with two, several different type of audiences? Yes. You do?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that happens all the time. I'm a little tamer. My, my friend put it this way, Oscar, it was so funny. I have a, a good friend who has seen me speak to in different venues. And she said, I re that recent, um, talk I was talking about with the mother, the female entrepreneurs. She's like, wow, like, you definitely seemed like a bigger version of yourself on that stage. Like, it's almost like she said you toned your stories down a little bit for that larger audience. And I don't know if this is the right way to do things, but I think also, again, it depends on, like, this is my, um, it's part of my story, I guess. To Oscar, as someone who has been speaking recently, I m kind of adapt, um, for when I'm talking to a mixed audience, I'm not as. Maybe some of those details aren't always there. I cut some of those out because I. And we're here in the States. I know you're in Finland, so. So I have to be really careful. There are a lot of things that I could say that would offend people here. And so my. Again, I don't want to upset. I don't want to, um, alienate my audience by upsetting them. So I'm a little more careful and strategic about the details that I'm putting in my story because again, if I want my message to get through to them, I have to connect with them. And so. But again, being with a group of moms who I feel more intimately close to, like female entrepreneurs, I'm like, these are. These are my ladies. Like, I can totally. I'm a little more free in that speech, in those details, in those emotions and that performance. If I'm in front of business professionals, I read the room. This is a more professional environment. These people are their expectations of that environment that are different. So that, I think affects the way that I'm going to tell the story. But, um, I think through all those things. So what's the etiquette of this presentation? Is this a business presentation? It goes back to that. What's the purpose? Do I want to teach them something? Do they need to understand a process? And how can I step into who I am as a speaker, which is a performance, as a storyteller? I'm performing the story, I'm performing the keynote. Um, that performance looks a little different in different rooms, put it that way. But I'm always trying to adjust. Um, my husband says I'm a chameleon a little bit. But I think that sometimes you do have to do that in order to get your message across. Right. And I know some people don't. Um, maybe that's. That's different advice. You probably get different advice depending on who you talk to. But for me, um, I'm always strategically thinking through how I structure the story. And that specifically looks like, what details do I include? Um, what's the emotion I want them to feel? And that all goes back to like, okay, but I, because I want them to remember this thing. I want them to get this message. Um, and, and it just goes back to again, like, yeah, what's the etiquette? What's the environment? What's the message? Who's the audience? So all those outside vectors, like factors of storytelling that they don't always talk about

Speaker A: and sounds related. Also, when you, when you, when there is a dialogue, let's say, is that as you, you mentioned, you, you, you, you already perform a little bit. When you were performer performing as Ira Glass, his voice was, was changing. Was changing. The voice was changing. Um, so how much do you recommend to, to change the voice and think of two different characters, not only one character, but not only yourself. But imagine there are two characters in the story. How much you recommend to change the voices and when it makes sense to change the voice. Have very different voice and when it's just one voice.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, I think I would practice this because this is another thing. When I work with clients, my goal, and I know this from working in tv, is to help everybody feel comfortable. Because you do perform. Like, if you talk to me, Oscar, and we weren't recording right now, I probably have a little bit of a different Persona. Just like I'm a little bit different on stage. I'm a little extra. But I think, um. So I think you have number one as a storyteller. I think you just have to be comfortable with the way that you tell the story and that you, Oscar, are going to tell your stories and your Persona, your. The way that you perform a story is going to be different than the way that I do it or the way, you know, somebody else would do it. And. But I do think there are ways to practice this in dialogue, as you mentioned. And so one of the ways that I like to practice and people now I'm going to give away my secret. Um, I do this on people like I, when I tell us stories. Like, I will practice my stories like when I'm having coffee with a friend or maybe when I'm talking to my children or, um, family members. If I'm going to tell a story, um, I will tell it to them and I'll watch their body language so if their eyes are glazing over or, you know, somebody picks up their phone or, like, they'll start to dart around, their eyes move, or, um, just read it. And I'm able to be like, ooh, too far into the voice that time. Or I lost them there. Or sometimes when I am losing them, Oscar, if I'm losing an audience, I'll just be like, okay, I'm gonna have to, like, amp this up a little bit. I'm going to have to slip this detail in first. Uh, so I'm always watching. I teach. So my. I watch my students body language all the time. And I can tell, oh, no, I'm losing them. Losing them. Let me. Let me bring up a new story because so then, you know, you have this repertoire. After you do this for a while, you can be like, oh, that story. I remember when I told that story to coffee with my friend, and her eyes lit up and I saw her lean in.

Speaker A: M. Let me.

Speaker B: And now I'm in front of an audience, like, or I'm in front of students. I'm trying to make the same point. So I like to practice, and I'll practice. And you have to, number one, feel. Figure out what's confident to you, like how you're going to feel comfortable because that genuine piece of. You don't want to perform too much and lose the authenticity. And that genuine. That genuine communication that can come from performing or sharing something in only a way that you can. And that. Huh. You have to be comfortable, I think, yourself. And then the second layer of that is also kind of going back to that main point, which is being able to read your audience. And I just think it's fun. I mean, I love. Yeah. But I do pay close attention to. To how other people react.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh, I mean, for, for any. Anytime you speak, um, practicing is important. Of course, in front of an audience. Of course you can practice alone. And it's. It's better if you practice in front of an audience. So you. You see the reaction at one point that actually. And I, uh, was not thinking, but actually reading the audience is something extra. If you learn that. How to read the audience or how to read a. Um. Yeah. Gestures, body language of the reactions of the. Of the audience. That will help you a lot. A lot. Definitely. I think not. Yeah. Not every speaker is, um, so aware or aware of that. So have you also, um, spent time digging into that? How to read the audience, how you spend a lot on that. Apparently you did.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think I've done it consciously, Oscar. I Just I like to read. Again, I think it goes back to, like, as a speaker, uh, what's helped me get over a lot, uh, uh, of my confidence issues. And, uh, I like to say recovering perfectionist. But, um, I used to, when I started out, I used to, like you mentioned, just practice and practice and practice and almost over practice something. Um, and then as I, as I spoke more and did it more, um, frequently. So especially with teaching where, you know, you speak on a regular basis on tv, you speak on a regular basis. And I started to realize that if I focus less on myself and less on me trying to be perfect or get something just right. And I started to focus on serving the audience. So I started to focus on, are they getting it? Are they understanding the message that I want to communicate? Is it. And they. Are they understanding that on an emotional level? Right. And so then I'm like, oh, I want to get a reaction out of them. I want them to laugh. I mean, maybe I want them to smile. Maybe I. Maybe at this point. I love humor. I usually start with humor, and then I'll go into something more serious during my keynotes. Um, but I think connecting with them, um, is important. And so I try to do that in whatever way I can. But a lot of that is you can tell right away whether you're doing that. Like I said, um, and so. And I'll do things like, um, raise your hand if you've ever experienced this. Right? That's a quick and easy way to get them to connect with you. Like, I want them because, uh, the part of storytelling is people have to trust you. They have to believe in you. They have to connect with. And the first way that they have to like you. What's that? Know, like. And trust. Right. And if you're doing that in a span of like 4, you've only got 45 minutes, maybe a half an hour in front of people as a speaker. And if you don't. If they don't know you, maybe they know you a little bit, but maybe they don't know you. You tell a story, tell a story that, like I said, is going to connect with them. Or, um, like I. The story I told to the entrepreneur moms was a story about. I'm, uh, just. I really struggled when my kids started playing sports. And I knew moms would relate to that. Right? I'm, like, shuffling kids back and forth. And I told a story about how, like, I was really late, I got scolded by a dance teacher, and everybody laughed, but I think they did Because I was like. I tapped into two things. One, an experience that probably a lot of the women in that room were having or have had, um, because they were moms. They had children. But I also kind of tapped into shame and guilt in a funny way. So it wasn't like they were scared of it. But I. But I was also, like, when I got scolded by this dance teacher for being late, Oscar. They were like, oh. And I'm like. And all the other parents in the room were looking. I poked fun at myself. All the other parents in the room were looking at me. Um, and I told them. I'm like, I felt shame. Like, have you felt that way? Um, I guarantee everybody in this room has felt shamed at some. And then they're like, oh. And then I get into my point, right? So that's what the storytelling can really help you do. Again, just seeing that on the fly in the moment is. Is you just got to kind of figure that out over time as you do it. But I can tell, like I said, I'm like, okay, they're with me. And if they're not with me, that's a. That's a trick technique I use. Have you felt that way? Has anybody else been in that situation? And they come back. They come back to me. I'm like, okay, now we're making it about you, but you're still connecting with me. Long winded answer, Oscar. But I just. I really love engaging the audience. It's fun.

Speaker A: Absolutely. It's. It's a must when you're. Especially when you're telling stories. Otherwise, you will not have the, um, the impact that you want. Another aspect on adapting stories is, I notice very subtly in some. In some speakers, storyteller, they. They manipulated time. I mean, a story that have different stages, let's say stages, story. Some of these stages are go super fast or go much, much, much, much slower to have some impact. So tell us about that.

Speaker B: That's a great question. I love that, because I know the best storytellers that I hear speak and that I read, they do manipulate time. And I think that, again, that goes back to. So one of the goals with storytelling, and I gave a brief example. Well, my last answer is you really want your audience. You want to, like, put them in a moment in time. But then sometimes you need to speed that up, because you need to. The reason you're dropping them into that experience or that moment is that you can have that emotional connection with them, but you also want to share the perspective or the lesson that peace with them. That's why you're there. Again, that purpose. And so I think that the best storytellers are able to read, like, weave sometimes. It's like a series of experiences together to share how they came to this conclusion or lesson, or like we said earlier, how they were changed. Right. If it's a personal narrative. And so I think that it was back, um, to my original answer. I think you really kind of have to think about your audience. Like, what do they need to know? And how can I emotionally connect with what details do I need to thread into this experience to get them to feel where I was? Or, um, how can I drop them in and out of time to help them understand this larger picture or this larger point or message that I want to give them? And so I do think that that is up to the storyteller. One trick that I have students do is I have them. You mentioned you've noticed storytellers that do this. I have them take a talk or a chapter of a book or, um, like a TEDx talk, the transcript, and I have them almost reverse outline it. So I'll say, how did this. Where was the hook? Where was the story hook? How did they hook you? And then, um, what were the specific details that they used to connect with you? And where's the emotion? Right. And then how did they bring it full circle? Did they bring the story full circle? When did they bring it full circle? Um, so I have them notice the storytelling elements that I want them to notice. Cool. Like, okay, here's all the elements that they're using, right? When and how did they use them? And so they kind of study it a little bit, and then they'll apply it. Then I'll be like, okay, now it's time to create your podcast. Now it's time to give your talk. And again, I want them to develop their own style when they do that. But, yes, manipulating time is something that, um, it's hard to teach because, again, I don't think there's a specific method that makes it work. But I do think that people who are good at storytelling know how to do that really well. But to start, I think it's fun to just like, methodically break it down. Like, how did they do it? Like, where are the pieces and how did they do it? And then this feels good to me with this story. I'm going to try that technique. I'm going to. I'm going to try fast forwarding my story or dropping them in here. Um, and oftentimes you Know, that's the other thing. Back up a little bit. When I work with clients or students, the automatic, um, thing that they'll do is just go in chronological order of a story. This happened, then this happened, then this happened, then this happened. And then, oh, I got this great lesson, but I'm like, sometimes it's like. And that's where the reverse outline helps, Oscar. But what if we drop them in in the middle of the story? Like, what if you just start right in the middle and then backtrack and give them the context and then bring them to the end or maybe start at the end and pull them in? I think it, uh, again, depends on those contextual pieces. Like, who's the audience? What's the emotional. Again, the emotional resonance is so important. What do I want them to feel? So it's kind of like you're not tricking them, but you're like, you want to capture them. So you can't always just tell a story in chronological. Most of the time that's not the most effective way to tell it. So I like to study it and then think about my audience. And then again, that, uh, goes the other piece of advice, like practice on people. Let me just tell us to my friend and see how, See what, how she reacts when I tell her this story. Is she gonna get it? Maybe she won't. I'll need to rewrite it or revise it. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. There are different ways to that. I think that I, uh, think the most common, um, scenario in which you need to, ah, like, uh, it typically shorten is when, when you are just given, uh, let's say you need to give a pitch. You have only three, five minutes and you need to tell a story. You need to shorten it. So you need to adapt it into. Focus on the detail that matters and a bit more pace and yeah, drop details, of course. So that's.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you can. That's fun too. Like, you can. You just said it. You can refine the same story for different audiences in different environments. Right? So absolutely.

Speaker A: Meg, could you now tell us what is your favorite quotation?

Speaker B: Oh, my favorite quotation is. And I, um, I don't. It's from one of my favorite characters and one of my favorite stories, Oscar. It's from a book called, ah, Anne of green Gables. And Ms. Shirley is, uh, the teacher in that story. And she says tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes. And I think I told you that I was a, ah, recovering perfectionist. And so I love to think of fresh starts And I love to think of growing and I think that that helps me in being a little bit more of a risk taker because I'm like, tomorrow I'll start new fails or tanks or crashes. Tomorrow's a new day with no mistakes in it. Um, and so I live by that. That's one of my favorites.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good one. And of course it comes from a story.

Speaker B: Yeah, one of my favorite stories. Yep.

Speaker A: Could you now recommend us one book that has been particularly inspiring or influential for you?

Speaker B: Yes, it's. And this is a new book. It's by. And this is uh, to do with storytelling. It's by um, an author. His name is Mark Yaginelli and he wrote a book called um, between the Listening and the Telling How Stories Can Save Us. And it is a beautiful book, Oscar, about the power of storytelling for connection. And so essentially he teaches, um, and it's just such so beautifully written. But he talks about how stories are really the bridge to human perspectives. And if we just step back to kind of listen to where other people are coming from. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's much more easy to sort of have empathy and compassion for one another. And I just think right now it, that's just a beautiful sentiment and something that we can all learn to do a little better. You know, pause and yes. Step back and say, well, I don't know that whole person's story. And he just gives a. It's a short book to Oscar. It's not a long thick read, but um, it's very emotional view on how we can use storytelling to better connect as humans.

Speaker A: M sounds definitely a good read for next on my queue of books to read.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a quick one. It's not long. That's what I like about it.

Speaker A: Excellent. Please now share with us an exercise, something practical, uh, that you would recommend us doing regularly. A routine to shine.

Speaker B: Yes. I love this question too. Thank you for asking this one. I think that one of the things that all of us can do, um, to sort of find our stories or those moments or experiences that are worth kind of sharing with others. Like I said, for connection. Whether that's in any situation that you're telling a story is a gratitude practice. So I every day I write down five things, five moments from the day before that I'm grateful for. And so I love this because it not only does it help me become more self aware of the everyday experiences that I can share, but or that are impacting me. Um, but it. After doing this for, for a couple years, I started to notice them more. I started to look for them because I'd be like, today, as I mentioned, maybe I wasn't having the best day, but I was like, tomorrow I'm going to have to write in my gratitude journal. Um, so I'm going to have to find something that could. That happened today or, uh. And it just reminds you that, you know, all of these moments and experiences are happening to us all the time. And one of the things that I've been working on too, is just being more present. And I think to be a good storyteller, I think the best storytellers are people who are very present and they notice the details. They're highly observant. And so then when it, when it's time to tell the story, they can put you right in that moment because they remember all those sensory details. And that practice helps me at least start to become aware of those. In those little moments that don't always feel highly dramatic or, um, um, things that, again, it kind of beats us out of that. Oh, I don't have. My life isn't. I don't have stories to tell. It's not interesting. Well, you have. Things are happening to you all the time.

Speaker A: So it's five. Five a day. Five a day.

Speaker B: No, five a day. It's little things.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: So I. Yesterday I just said, I got to. My daughter laughed at a joke that I told.

Speaker A: That's it.

Speaker B: She's going to Teenagers, Oscar. And she laughed at a joke. And I was like, you know what? That was a really great moment. I got her to laugh. So little things, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah, indeed. It's true. So there are some days in which you feel there is zero. There is nothing to celebrate or to remember for a day. But I believe, um, it's an exercise to really spend time in finding them because they are usually there are. So thanks a lot for this exercise. I think it's very, very good reflection. So, Meg, it's been a pleasure talking with you. Very enjoyable, uh, conversation. Please tell us how we can, uh, find you, get in touch with you.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much. So I, um, really like LinkedIn, Oscar. I'm over there a lot. I'm Dr. So, Dr. Megadam, also on Instagram. Um, and then my website is just drmegadams.com so you can contact me there, um, find my email address or just message me on LinkedIn or Instagram. It's mostly where I am.

Speaker A: Excellent. Again, it was a pleasure talking with you, Meg. And all the best.

Speaker B: You too, Oscar. Thanks so much for having me on. I loved your questions. Great questions. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining us today. If you enjoyed this show, do me a favor. Go to Apple Podcast, uh, or your favorite app and leave us a rate and review. This helps me so more people will find the show. And if you work in the tech industry, please Visit my website, rogthetechstage.com until next time.