EP#69 Arpit Maheshwari - Investment philosophy at Stellaris, balancing mindshare when investing in different sectors and managing relationships with startups that are unable to achieve venture scale

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome back to yet another episode of the VCPreneur podcast. A podcast that provides a unique perspective of the startup world through the lens of venture capitalists and entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Dig Jay and today I have with me Arpit Maheshwari, principal at Stellaris Venture Partners. Stellaris is an early stage sector agnostic investment firm currently investing from its second fund of 225 million dol. Since its inception in 2017, the firm has invested in 30 startups across sectors like SaaS, financial services, B2B, commerce, consumer brands, social commerce, education, electric vehicles, healthcare and more. Some of its marquee portfolio startups include the likes of uh, whatfix, mamaearth, Turno, slintel, Lime Chat and Scienz, among others. In this episode, Arpit talks about his background and path leading up to Stellaris, the investment philosophy at Stellaris and the journey from Fund 1 to Fund 2. Standout attributes of select founders from Stellaris portfolio. Scaling up as an investor and balancing mindshare between different sectors, managing relationships with startups that are unable to achieve venture scale and how being an investor has influenced Arpit, uh, over the years. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode with Arpit and had a lot of takeaways from this chat. I hope you enjoy this conversation too. So without much ado, let's jump in and find out what Arpit has to share.

Speaker C: Hey Arpit, welcome to the VCPreneur podcast. Thank you so much for taking out the time.

Speaker A: Hey Vijay. No, no, thank you for having me. I'm um, uh, I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker C: Same here, same here. You know Arpit, for our audience, you know, maybe we can start with a brief background about yourself and you know, tell us about your path leading up to Stellaris before we jump into the meat of this conversation.

Speaker A: So I am engineer, uh, by profession, but never by practice. Um, I graduated uh, in 2008. I then spent three years in consulting with a firm named BCG in their Gurgaon office. Um, post that I joined an edtech startup, uh, this is back in 2011, uh, by the name of iProf. They were a series A funded company at that stage. Um, had a pretty powerful vision of um, enabling access to higher quality educational content. Um, at that point it was recorded. Ultimately we had always thought once technology would catch up, we would also move on to the life side of the world, uh, using mobile devices. So I spent about close to two and a half, three years at iof. Uh, in the middle of that stint I went to Imad for an mba um post Cyprop IPROP did not work out, um multiple reasons and I think that typically does happen with, with companies that early as, as I Prof. Was I used to run product for iPro. I went to Karthiko, I used to run product predominantly and uh, a few other things for the used car business. This was when Cardiko was in its growth phase. Now I'm very happy Karthiko is still around so uh, and sort of alive and kicking. I spent uh, about what maybe one and a half two years at Cardeco and I then um ran innovation for Arvind which is a uh manufacturing and retail group um where I joined Solaris in uh July 2018. And you know m. If I look back I think always been a very big believer in entrepreneurship as a force for change um in society. Um was part of the team that set up the entrepreneurship cell at IIT Delhi as an example. Have seen some examples in my family on uh, I would say the impact that entrepreneurship can have. Not uh, just on what you do but also on society as a whole. Um, which is part of the reason why I joined uh, I joined startups. You know, uh, always wanted to explore that side of the world and I think at some point I came to the conclusion that look you could of course choose to be a founder yourself somehow could never develop that conviction. Uh, maybe it was a lack of courage, lack of conviction. You would never know. And then I think the next best way to I think support founders is either you help them build out the business or like in an operating capacity or you help them build out the business in a financing capacity.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And I think as I would say I grew more self aware. I thought investing would be a good choice for me.

Speaker C: Awesome. And it's, it's been a wide ranging journey and you know something that uh any venture capitalist today needs to uh, have that kind of an different uh experiences before. It definitely helps to be able to relate with you know founders who are at different stages of the journey and different uh business models itself. Uh you mentioned if you're working at a bigger corporate and in their innovation arm, um it's different than you know working at an early stage startup. But all those experiences count. A fantastic background. Arpit, uh, if you could talk more about Stellaris itself, tell us about the fund, uh the journey of the fund as well. And uh, you all uh raised a bigger fund sometime in 21.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: And we'll talk about how it's changed in terms of your Approach allocation strategy. But yeah, uh, to start with if we can talk about Stellaris and the journey of the fund so far.

Speaker A: So look, we are an early stage investment firm, focus on seed and series investments. Now what that typically means for us, because seed and series A can mean different things for different people, is we are usually the first or maybe the second institutional investor that starts working with a company. We also come in very early. Um, we can come in when there is just a business plan. We can come in when maybe there is, you've got let's say uh, if I take maybe an rng of a SaaS company, maybe you have a couple of beta customers or where maybe there is very early signs of revenue. But for the most part a lot of the business has to be figured out. We are tech focused, um, but sector agnostic. Now as a firm we are I would say very thesis driven and depth oriented. So the way we work is that while at a firm wide level we are selling sector agnostic, different people will focus on different sectors. And the you know, the upside of that is that you are able to build more expertise, uh, also see more patterns which may be unique to that sector and hopefully that leads to both better judgment when you make an investment but also I think um, equally importantly better ability to support founders once you actually start working with them as part of your portfolio.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And that's one part the second I think. And you know dj, if I go back to what you were saying that which was a comment on my background which was around the variety of experiences. Now um, I think there is no set template to be a vc but at least we feel operating experience does help. Um, if you look at us as a firm, most people in the investment team, at least all senior folks in the investment team will have significant operating experience. Um, so we have ex founders, you know, people who have worked in large corporations, people who have worked in startups, large corporations across the board, um, I think analysts because we get them when they typically have maybe two, three years of experience. So at that point there is not as much operating experience. Although ah, Naman, who is the most recent addition to our team, uh he was a founder himself, uh, in his sort of most recent stint. So and in general I think we do feel it helps us better appreciate how businesses are built and again connect better with founders. Focus on stuff that is more important versus worrying about stuff that frankly doesn't matter. Early stage startups are a very chaotic beast. Right. So I think it is very easy to say hey X is not working Y is not working. Z is not working. I mean, that's great, but we really do want to focus on what is working. Right. Um, so I'll take a pause, but I would say that's, uh, maybe a little bit about us and our philosophy.

Speaker C: No, I think that color definitely helps. And, you know, talks about, uh, the DNA and the structure of the firm. That becomes very important for any founder who's picking their first institutional investor. How are they structured, one, and then what's their approach, uh, to company building and, uh, venture scaling in general? You know, Stellaris has gone from a relatively smaller fund one to a huge Fund two. Uh, I would say, and I'm sure it has been a journey in itself. Um, if you could talk briefly about the fund one and, um, some of the tailwinds and the headwinds that you faced when you were raising fund two.

Speaker A: So look, um, first, I think fund two is definitely meaningfully bigger than fund one. But I would say if you look at it relative to early stage, uh, venture ecosystem in India, at this point, I would not categorize it as a huge fund. Uh, if anything, we are, you know, if you look at like, there are several folks who are also early stage focused who are maybe two XR fund size or more.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, so I would say that we think of ourselves as right sized. Now, the part of the reason, if you look at, I think Fund one, I mean, I wasn't around when we started raising, uh, but I think it was we closed that sometime in 2018, if I remember correctly. And if you look at it between say the 2017, 2018 time frame to about the 2021 time frame, there has been meaningful, uh, inflation in the India market, right?

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: So what that means is that, look, check sizes have gone up, valuations have gone up, and then broadly speaking, you do need more firepower to stay competitive. I think that's, that's part of the reason, uh, why we wanted a larger fund, uh, between fund one and fund two. Um, our strategy has been fairly consistent, you know, so across both funds, we are continuing to be seed and a focused, again sector agnostic tech, uh, focus and so on. So I think that, uh, fundamentally would not say, um, in terms of our areas of focus or our strategy from an investment perspective, uh, it's been pretty consistent between these two funds, um, on the headwinds and tailwinds that you mentioned. Look, I think fund one so far, fingers crossed, um, you know, has been doing well. I think we have managed to pick. I think that we've Been fortunate to, to have a good portfolio over there. So I think that helped. There is more liquidity than the Indian ecosystem has now shown. If you look at the last couple of years, both in terms of public markets, uh, as well as, you know, slightly deeper private market exits also that people have managed to see maybe partial, maybe fully, but at least liquidity is a little more real than what it was maybe five years back. So I think that also helped from a headwinds perspective. I would not say there were any real headwinds, but I would say there are a fairly standard set of questions that you would always get when you are looking to raise capital, you know, which is around what is your strategy going to be like. The market seems to be getting more competitive because as the market seems to get more attractive, you know, there will be more players that will join. How will you differentiate yourself and so on and so forth. Um, but I would not carry, as I said to my mind, those were not headwinds. Uh, that is something that you would expect. I mean ultimately we are also going raising funds just like startups will come and raise funds and you will have fairly, I would say, you know, justified questions around um, your business.

Speaker C: And you're right, I mean the market itself, you know, defines how, how many headwinds you have or tailwinds you have know, in raising funds and environment in the last four or five years has been fairly positive. So you mentioned, you know, no headwinds of course, but uh, any learning specifically from Fund 1 and the way you allocated that fund that you all are taking into fund two, anything that just stood out for you in terms of learnings that are, that you're implementing, uh, with this bigger fund too.

Speaker A: So I think it's a good question. I would say, see some of these learnings are going to be self funded. All the philosophical statements I mentioned earlier, but I would say a lot of reinforcement of beliefs on a staying disciplined. I would say number one, thesis and depth orientation and at least that mattering. Number two, I would also say that ensuring that you are able to double down on winners I think is very important. Um, and we have tried and I think for the most part been successful at it as well. But I think it is from a returns driver perspective. I think you don't want to be in a position where you picked well but you did not have enough equity in the business. So I would say maybe broadly speaking those, those three things. And if you look at fund two, you know, as an example on the piece around discipline, so we targeted about eight to 10 new investments from the fund every year. We made nine in 2021 and we made seven uh, in 2022. So I think that sense pace of investing has been reasonably consistent. Then you know again also the importance of um, being depth oriented, being at least thesis driven. And again uh, I would say several investments in Fund two are uh, essentially us investing behind an existing thesis, often at a very early stage of the business as well. So I think those have uh, served us well so far.

Speaker C: Right, thanks for that background and deep uh, dive on the journey. If you could talk more about the portfolio itself both from Fund one, Fund two and uh, I want to talk about startups in a different way here. Uh, every startup will have its unique standout point or something which led to their success. Know in that respect, uh, if you could talk about some of the startups and what do you think you know, stood out for them, uh, that helped them grow over the you know, past few years.

Speaker A: It's a very good question. So what I'll do is maybe um, I'm just mentally scanning Fund 1 and Fund 2. Yeah, now keep in mind I think Fund 1 companies at least have had time to show some level of scale. Fund 2 companies are very young. Um, but I will still call out some things which I think are, has stood out for these, not all of these are companies that are on my own portfolio in a sense. Some of them I work with uh, or work with. Uh, but some of these of course you still get to learn because we do discuss our portfolio on a frequent basis. If I look at Fund one now, um, Slintel, um, this was a company that we exited in 2021 if I remember correctly. It was uh, acquired by uh, a company called Six Sense. You know, if I look at Deepak and Rahul who were the founders there, uh one extremely strong learners. So there were several aspects of the business which I think they had no exposure to when we came in, when we came in when they were very tiny, uh, very, very small. Um, and I remember for example if I, if you look at product management, neither Deepak nor Rahul had exposure to product management in the past. That was a function where, and they were very self aware, you know that look, this is something that we need to learn that we need to sort of get better at. And if I look at the quality of product management discussions that we would have like product oriented discussions rather that we would have, it just grew at a pretty remarkable pace. I think that's, that's one part I think that they just learned whatever it is that they had not sort of experienced, experienced in the past. I. The second thing that stood out to me about Slintel was I think Deepak's ability to just build capacity ahead of time. You know, um, Clintel grew very rapidly. I think their, their growth curve was just fantastic. And often in, I would say sales led SAS companies. What happens is that you realize you have a market to go after, but you don't have the sales capacity, you go after that market. So what happens is your growth curve will go like this and there'll be like a bit of a pause because, you know, sales people are getting onboarded, they're getting ramped up and so on and so forth is happening. In Sintel's case, I think that challenge just never happened. Deepak was just always able to sort of, you know, stay one step ahead of the curve and not unnecessarily ahead of the curve. It's not that we had people sitting idle. I think that was just fantastic. If I look at what fix, um, I think, you know, maybe two things stand out for them. Um, one is it's a category, creation, play. Um, and I think that has, uh, that has been uh, of course very fortuitous for them. They were able to identify a gap that was emerging in the market and built for it. Second, on the go to market front, they have been extremely adept at constantly changing their go to market, which is not very easy for SaaS companies to do. And I would say, uh, even there, I think two dimensions. One just the ability to sell higher and higher contract sizes. And Vijay, what happens is that as you sell higher and higher contract sizes, the nature of the buyer changes because from uh, SMBs to mid market to enterprises and you know, then very different sales motions, very different sales capabilities that you need to build. Also they were an org that was predominantly sitting in India selling globally. Now they have this fantastic sales team that sits in the US Sells to sort of the bluest of the bluest chip accounts. So just that transition I think has been just quite remarkable in my opinion. And maybe a third which comes to mind is propelled. You know, they are, um, they are essentially in the education loans business. Um, the resilience that this business has shown, uh, especially when covet happened, you know, because Propel goes to market via brick, um, and mortar coaching institutions. Uh, at that point. Right. Um, Covid happened, sort of everything went for a toss. And one is the resilience. But second, which is, um, you know, I remember discussing this, um, in one of Our team meetings, you know, when the entire world was basically sort of going for a toss and the whole world was saying, hey, guys, basically play on, on the back foot, right? I said, you know, we have a product that makes sense. We are able to transition to a different category of institutions as well, uh, which may be online first and so on, but this is our opportunity to gain market share. So they actually pressed their foot on the pedal at a time when, as I said, it was very, very hard to do so. Right. Um, so I think that Those are maybe three things on Fund 1, Fund 2, significantly younger companies, all the ones that I'll describe. But, you know, I think in the case of Beepkart, just the operational discipline and the leverage of technology to enable operational discipline in that business, I think that's pretty remarkable. Um, Internu's case, E I think the strength of the vision that we have there, which is to just catalyze India's transition from a mobility perspective to electric. But again, what I think is very commendable at least. And something which I, which I really admire in that team is not just having, you know, clarity at a very visionary level, but also being able to marry that and saying, look, having very deep insights and what would you need at a business model and an operating level to be able to translate that vision to reality? So that's the second, the third. And, uh, this is a company named 91 square feet without describing what the business does. Actually, I think just an amazingly persistent team. I think they have been around and taken so many knots as a business, you know, including when Covid happened, X happened, Y happened, Z happened, whatever, um, but just amazingly persistent and resilient. Uh, so those are some of the things maybe, which, um, you know, as I was scanning our own portfolio, uh,

Speaker C: throughout, I think that's definitely helpful and tells you about the key characteristics that you require just to exist as a founder, and some of them which help you take, uh, yourself and your company to the next level. Uh, because like you said, just being a founder in itself takes a lot of courage and conviction along with some of the other qualities that you mentioned. Just sticking to those qualities and being able to execute and implement that into action helps you actually see the progress and growth of the company. Uh, from there on.

Speaker B: Fantastic.

Speaker C: Uh, this is great. Uh, you know, Arpit, we can talk more about the next aspect. Um, scaling up. As an investor, I understand that you mentioned within, uh, Stellaris, you have different people managing and looking at different sectors, but then still you don't have just One key sector that you're looking at, you're still looking at multiple sectors. So if you could talk about sectors that you're focusing on and I think a follow up would be how do you try to manage your mind share and balance your time between these sectors. There are some sectors that are hot at a point in time and then they become um, uh, lukewarm again. Something else is in and in hot at the time. And your investment strategies for those sectors also changes according to market. You have to just to be competitive as an investor as well. So just walk us through that. The act of balancing your mind share as an investor.

Speaker A: I think it's a great question and I think it's, I would say pretty much the most important question that I would ask myself as an investor right now. So I'll probably try and break it down into three different parts. One, what do I focus on? Second, how do you allocate mindshare? Um, and I'll also talk a little bit more about, you know, how do you decide what to focus on, uh, what not to focus on and which does start to get into, you know, thesis building, uh, and investment styles because I think all of these are related, uh, in some shape or form. So I focus on predominantly the following sectors. I look at software, uh, In a sense SaaS, both on the application side as well as on the infrastructure side. Um, I look at climate tech and I also look at mobility, travel oriented investments. Now how do you allocate mindshare? I think that I would break that down, um, into two sub questions which is how do you think about topics that you want to think about long term? And then also there could be topics that you need to focus on in the short run, right? Yeah, I think the long term stuff ultimately ends up being an exercise in building a thesis. You may articulate a thesis to different levels of sophistication in your own mind, uh, you know, to the external world within your team and so on. But ultimately it does boil down to having a thesis on, on particular spaces. Um, this is where I would say I think it is most important to proactively spend time. And I think the first filter I apply on, um, which are these topics that I want to sort of focus on productively with a long term lens in mind is do I anticipate, let's say if I forecast 10 years out, do I think within that space there will continue to be innovation that will happen and therefore will there continue to be high quality startups, uh, that will be coming up in that Space. Right. And that's one second. You know, you also want to make it real because there is no point in a building a point of view for something that will happen 10 years out. Right. You do want to also have a point of view that is relevant, let us say maybe for a year or two years, uh, down the line. And I think the filter to apply is are you seeing at least some activity happening in terms of startups that are emerging? So a little bit more bottoms up. Um, in the sense that, look, do you think topic X is going to be extremely exciting 8 years out? Are uh, you seeing anything happening around topic X? Maybe companies coming up that you would have talked to, let's say in the past few months, maybe people talking about that topic, uh, that hey, there's an important problem to solve, etc. I mean if not, then you also need to question is that the best use of your time at that point of time. But broadly speaking, if you think there are areas which are temporal in nature, you know, then proactively spending time on understanding those, um, may not be as useful. Now. So when I marry this long term thinking with something which is around saying, you know, in the here and now, what is the kind of activity that you see in the sense that, let's say there is an area that I have not really spent too much time thinking about. Right. Because let's face it, there are only so many things I can think about top down.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, but if there are great teams that are building in that space, would you talk to them? Yes. I mean our maximum learning happens when we talk to founders. Even the discovery of area that you should focus on happens often when you talk to founders because they will give you a worldview that you have not yet thought about. Um, I know I said I tried to cover too many things at one go, but I to just synthesize all of that. I think I try to marry, you know what is going to be relevant, let's say with a slightly longer term lens in mind, with also looking at what is happening on the ground. So it is important to not build points of view in a vacuum. It is important to not invest in a vacuum. And I think the most important part of the job, the one that you just cannot cut down on, is your interaction with founders. I think we are just in a profession where we are so lucky. I mean we get to meet founders on a constant basis, they explain what they are doing, they patiently answer our questions because ultimately all of that feeds back into our mental models and what's happening in the world. Uh, they are the ones who really teach us the most. So in doing all of this, you know, in where your mind share goes and long term and short term, all of that is great. But the thing to keep in mind is you should not be losing track of the fact that if you're not talking to founders enough, then you are definitely not doing your job right.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's, that's an important crux that you mentioned. You know, and uh, to your earlier point, you can build your own thesis and have a long term view, but it's only by talking to founders is what you can see what's happening on ground and be able to connect those dots, draw a line connecting those dots. Maybe, uh, two years down the line.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Fantastic. And there are sectors that become hot at a point in time. For instance right now, generative AI, AI in general and its applications across all kinds of sectors. What's your approach as an investor? I'm sure there is some element of fear, of missing out that comes in, you know, natural human tendency. How do you try to keep a filter and keep that discipline, the same discipline that you have, you know, when the sector is not hot in evaluating teams and evaluating that opportunity.

Speaker A: I think, I think it's a great question. Look, first and foremost, if sales sector is quote unquote hot and um, hot, I would maybe first give some indicators of what could hurt me. In a sense there are some really high quality teams that are building something in that business. Maybe other investors are, you know, funding companies in that space and so on and so forth. I think one, whether we have a positive view or a negative view, or let's say we have no view on that space, I think it does merit at least an evaluation or an investigation at our end. Let's say what is happening there? What are people seeing? Now you need to combine that with your own independent evaluation and that goes through across the board. Whether a sector is hot, sector is not hot, companies hot, companies not hot. Ultimately you cannot be borrowing conviction in this business. So at the end of the day, what matters the most is irrespective of sector being hot or look, I'll give you the flip side. There could be a sector that nobody cares about, but you have a point of view there which says, man, I think this is going to be an important problem to solve. This is the team, they have the right business model. Let's invest. Right. So that also happens. So where I was going was what is most important is both at an individual level and At a firm level, you need to ensure that you are not borrowing conviction. Yeah, I think, uh, what we end up doing is as individuals, we all have our own mechanisms to ensure that are we borrowing conviction or not? Uh, and then over and above that, if you look at us as a firm, you know, when we evaluate a company, we at least get two people involved. So that, let's say Arpit and DJ are evaluating a company. I may have a blind spot. You could call it out. You may have a blind spot, I could call it out. Hopefully that one automatically leads to higher quality decision making. And then, you know, again within the firm, as we make decisions, right. We look to balance backing conviction of the team, which is the one that's focusing on that space. And therefore we have a better understanding of the space but not getting to a point where we are taking risks that in hindsight we would not have wanted to take. So I think ensuring you have those guardrails from a decision making perspective, um, I think that's what matters there.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's definitely helpful. You know, and I understand it's, it's difficult to just articulate what you go through as an investor because every cycle and every market is different and hot at different levels, like you said. And I think the key takeaway here is, you know, asking that question whether you're borrowing conviction or not. I think that's a very powerful, uh, you know, question that any investor should ask, irrespective of whether the sector is hot or not. Um, Arpit, you know, one other topic I wanted to talk about when it comes to ventured investing, the approach to investing as well and how you manage your portfolio is, uh, the philosophy on, you know, failed startups or failed portfolio companies. And it's, it's tough as an investor because you have to go through it. It's just the way venture works. You know, two out of ten companies will, you will make it to the end and you know, there'll be probably eight failures.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: And how you manage those failures and having, how you manage those conversation with founders, those tough conversations, uh, when they're struggling and not able to scale up, you know, kind of defines you uh, as a venture fund as well. So, you know, if you could talk us through that philosophy at Stellaris, both at the firm level and individual level,

Speaker A: uh, it's a very important topic. But I'll tell you what, at least how I, I think about it and some of this is common to scenarios as well, but you know, different people in the team, I'm sure will have different styles. This, I would say a fairly intense topic. Uh, which is why I don't want to say there is just one way of sort of thinking about this. Absolutely. I think first and foremost, you need to establish your relationship of trust with founders, and you need to do it from day one. And I think one core aspect of how, uh, I want to have relationships with founders is my founders should never need to second guess me. Look, I may be right, I may be wrong, but I'll always tell you exactly where I stand in the sense we are not backseat drivers. We want founders to execute. We are sounding boards. But then as sounding boards, we will never hold back. What that means is, let's m say you are going down a particular direction. I may disagree with that direction. I will tell you very transparently, hey, dj, look, I think this is maybe not the best choice to make as a company, but guess what? As I said, you are the one who's closest to the problem statement to the market. So ultimately, you need to do what you got to do. And I'm never going to go back and say, you know what, I told you so. And now, uh, we are in a bad, um, shape.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Look, what is done is done. That's great. Because the second thing which is very important to realize, I think for us as investors in this process, is at the end of the day, the founders are the ones who are most affected when companies don't work out. That's the reality of life for me. It is one company in a portfolio. So in that sense, the risk is hedged. Right? Financially, emotionally. Whichever way you look at it, it is really, really, really crappy when companies don't work out. Um, because I think whether we like it or not, we do also invest behind those companies. But our crappiness is sort of nothing compared to the crappiness that founders go through is the point that we need to keep in mind. And that brings me to at least my third belief, which is founders are usually best placed to judge when companies are not working out. We, um, can often see those signs early on. It is not that we can't. And we can sensitize founders to those signs as well. And we do. As I said, it is my job, it is my responsibility, um, because ultimately we are managing other people's money. Uh, we do sensitize founders to those as well. But at least I have realized that if you are able to invest in building a relationship of trust, um, these are not, they're still sad conversations, but they are not necessarily very Difficult conversations because these have not been immature conversations. You know, these have not been conversations which have left a sour taste in, in people's, uh, in people's minds. So I think as uh, I said, provided you are able to invest upfront, I think that's for me, if suddenly after two years we are trying to have a very different dynamic to our relationship with founders, then maybe the conversation may not work out as well. Right, and rightly so by the way.

Speaker C: So yeah, you know, thanks for sharing that perspective. You're right. I mean that foundation definitely, uh, goes a long way in how the relationship with your founders is going to shape out and how much they're able to trust you with time. Uh, Arpit, one last question before uh, we jump into rapid fire. And I like to ask this question, uh, to all my guests. You've been investing and of course you operated for a while, uh, before that for almost a decade and then you've been an investor over the last five, six years. How has being an investor influenced your personality, uh, you know, over the last six, seven years? How has that changed you as a person over time?

Speaker A: You know, I think it's. Look, um, so one, it's been five years, I would say I would like to believe it has a, made me more objective because I think as a profession investing demands objectivity, uh, far more perhaps than other professions. And I would say it's seeped over into aspects of your personal life as well. So that's. One second is I think you see many different ways in which a problem could be solved. You also see many different ways in which things may not work out. And again that seeps over into aspects of your personal life, um, I think can make you more measured as a person. So if you look at me as an example, I think I have become less impulsive. I would like to believe I have also become less hard charging as a person. But you know, you got to ask other people that question. I can't be commenting on that one. Um, so yeah, those are some of the things which, which I think had changed and on balance I would say those are good changes.

Speaker C: Fantastic. Thanks for sharing that. You know, Harpit, with that we'll jump into another interesting segment which is the rapid fire. I'll uh, shoot some questions and you know, hope to get your honest, immediate thoughts on the same.

Speaker A: Go ahead. Okay.

Speaker C: One thing that you'd like to change, uh, to improve the state of the Indian startup ecosystem today, that's pretty much a no brainer.

Speaker A: More women founders that get funded. Yeah.

Speaker C: And luckily, we are seeing some positive change. But agree with you, there's a long way to go.

Speaker A: And I think we have a long way to go, boss.

Speaker C: That's what I think, 100%. If you had to give a TED Talk, what topic would you choose and what why?

Speaker A: I'll, uh, give you two topics. One, which I think has perhaps been beaten to death in TED Talks, but I would still want to talk about education, um, and its fundamental role in shaping human potential, or, uh, helping people realize their potential and the role of technology in different parts of education. That would be the more serious topic that I would pick. Um, the other topic, which I would love to pick, something around football. I can bore people to death talking about football. I'm guessing that's not the best topic, but I would. I mean, if I could, I would pick that one, too.

Speaker C: I think. I think what matters is what's closest to your heart. And I think both these topics, you know, I'm sure are very close to your heart and very close to heart. The reason why you. You want to talk more about it. Awesome. We look forward to those, you know, TED talks sometime in the future. The next one, um, the most, uh, unusual or a memorable pitch meeting that you had with the founder.

Speaker A: Okay, I'm blanking out on this one. I think, look, in the sense that there have been several memorable pitch meetings where founders have. Just as I said, we learned the most when we talk to founders. And I have come out of several conversations where I've been like, man, whether we invest or not, because there could be a number of reasons why we are not able to invest. But look, either you learned something about a market that you did not understand earlier, or you learn something about founders themselves. Uh, I would say stories of determination, of persistence, uh, which, I mean, they just blew you away. But it's, as I said, I'm blanking out on sort of one specific instance over there.

Speaker C: Okay, uh, final question. Uh, VCs and founders, uh, that you admire and look up to.

Speaker A: Um, so founders, I think I'll probably give you, like, public names. I mean, they are founders who I know as a person, but other people will not. And, you know, uh, Bill Gates, um, is probably the one I'd pick, you know, one partially for what he built at Microsoft, and then to basically pretty much, you know, very suddenly say, hey, look, this part of life is done. I now want to move on to more philanthropic endeavors. Uh, so that's one on VCs, potentially Union Square and Benchmark. Very consistent, very disciplined. And the ability to, I would say, consistently pick winners across market cycles. Uh, so, yeah, so those two.

Speaker C: And I think both those investors, you know, have done, like you said, again, consistently well, especially by being one of the first institutional investors, uh, for those companies, which is tough, like to take those bets, uh, before those companies have actually tasted success or seen that level of growth, uh, having that conviction before then consistently over decades. I think that clearly stands out for me as well. Any last thoughts for, you know, uh, both VCs and founders that are listening to you through the podcast?

Speaker A: I think I would say for VCs, the importance of independent conviction and, and empathy when we deal with founders. Just how. Just sticking to that one. And for founders, honestly, I think just, um, keep doing what you guys are doing because I feel that's how society changes for the better. So, yeah.

Speaker C: Amazing. Arpit. This has been, you know, a great conversation. Enjoyed the chat and I'm sure, you know, we could have kept going, uh, but in the interest of time, we can pause here for now, pick it up again, uh, in the next version.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Um, but I look forward to continuing to speak with you and I think this was like, I think a really, really nice conversation. Um, very thought provoking for me as well. So thank you for doing that.

Speaker C: I'm glad you enjoyed it and, you know, I've equally enjoyed it and taking away a lot from this conversation. Cheers.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of the VC Bruno podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please let our guests know about it and share your thoughts on social media.

Speaker C: We would truly appreciate if you could

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