Episode 27- What Supply Chain Teams Should Anticipate in Leadership and Workforce Reskilling in 2025 with Rodney Apple

Speaker A: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Supply Chain Matters podcast hosted by Bob Ferrari. Supply Chain Matters has consistently been recognized as one of the top Internet blogs in the field of supply chain management. Our goal in this podcast series is to provide the best insights and thought leadership from guests, experience, experienced and knowledgeable in supply chain management. Areas to be discussed include business processes, advanced technology and various industry and individual business, product, demand and supply networks. And with that, here's your podcast host, Bob Ferrari.

Speaker B: Hello all to listening and welcome to episode 27 of our supply Chain Matters Podcasting series. I am Bob Ferrari, the founder and managing editor of our blogging platform and I serve as moderator of this podcast series. The Supply Chain Matters blog is consistently rated as one of the top blogs in supply chain management thought leadership and since our founding in 2008, we continue in garnering a global wide readership. This podcast medium serves as a supplement to the various published content on Supply Chain Matters and it is indeed our opportunity to present a more two way conversational discussion on important topics for industry and global supply chain management teams. Now, as a prelude to our research arms publication of our annual predictions advisory for industry and global supply chains, we are uh, kicking off a series of thought leadership guests that will provide observations and insights into important areas that should be of concern to supply chain leadership and management teams. In the coming year. Multi industry supply chain management teams must prepare for another year of challenges related to dynamics surrounding shifting supply chain global or domestic sourcing strategies, increasing geopolitical developments, increase natural disasters while anticipating and mitigating operational disruptions. M technology coupled with human insight will continue to play an enabling role in addressing the mitigation of impacts. Among these various challenges, preparing leaders and teams for newer reskilling roles will continue to be essential. So really, I'm really pleased to have as our guest for this particular episode Rodney Apple. Rodney is the founder and managing partner of SCM Talent Group. He provides over 20 years of experience in talent acquisition and executive search in various areas of supply chain management. His supply chain journey began with roles at the Home Depot, the Coca Cola company, Kimberly Clark and Cummings. Successfully filling more than 1,000 professional and executive supply chain and related positions. Rodney is revered figure in supply chain management sector, known for his impactful contributions and thought leadership. As a founding author of the Supply Chain Talent Blog and co host of the Supply Chain Careers podcast, he dispenses invaluable advice about hiring leadership and career management. His commitment to enhancing supply chain careers and organizations has established him as a trusted advisor and coach dedicated to the growth and success of supply chain management professionals at all levels. Rodney has serves as the supply chain career coach for the association of Supply Chain Management, ascm, formerly known as apex, and has presented at leading supply chain conferences and as a supply chain technology analyst myself, I have often checked in with Rodney regarding his observations, perspectives, relative supply chain management skill areas and trending. And I thought it would be great if we now shared that with our audience as well. So Rodney, I am so pleased that you have taken time out of your busy schedule to speak with our Supply Chain Matters audience.

Speaker C: Well Bob, it's uh, great to see you again. It's been a while. Uh, I know we go back and uh, have had various dialogues over the years, especially when we get towards this time of year and looking into the crystal ball for what might be changing in supply chain. So uh, uh, I've always appreciated those conversations with you and I'm um, very pleased to be on your show today.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. And I as well. And what a year it's been in supply chain management and what it's going to be I guess is what we need to talk about. So let's begin with kind uh, of the broader perspective. Uh, would you describe for our uh, uh, readers and listeners, uh, how corporations and businesses are describing their needs and requirements of either past current or future supply chain leaders in their current recruitment needs right now? What are they seeking?

Speaker C: It's a great question Bob. Um, as I go back to my, you know, where I cut my teeth in supply chain recruitment over 25 years ago, uh, to the present, uh, and then trying to forecast what's going ahead. If there's anything constant Bob, it has been rapid change and just lots of things have evolved over the years. Um, a great example is 20 some years ago, um, as I'm recruiting, hiring managers are begging and pleading for the hard skills, the technical skills if you will, um, you know, uh, data analytics, uh, working with advanced technology, of course the Excel wizardry, you know, um, was a constant thing and the soft skills were never really thought about because everyone had decent soft skills. Fast forward to today, it's almost the exact opposite where you know we had six universities 20 some years ago that had supply chain logistics related degree programs. The usual suspects, Michigan State, Utah, Penn State, et cetera. Um, counted recently, I think it was over 125 universities are offering supply chain logistics or related degree programs. Um, which I think is fascinating. That just shows the growth in this space which I think is very exciting. But what I am constantly hearing today Is uh, the hard skills are there, but what's lacking is the soft skills. And uh, you have to go back and ask why. And I think it's just the advent of technology and the acceleration and the adaption and what we used to have, many, many devices, uh, to get this kind of work done now is you can do most of it on your cell phone. Right. So these younger generations have grown up with technology, um, being taught at a very early age and having access to it, um, and communicating through it as well versus uh, maybe over conversation face to face. And I think that's kind of diminished some of the soft skills. Um, um, that's at least what I would uh, lay the blame to, if you will. Um, so I think it's important to talk about um, that hard versus soft skill dynamic that has evolved over the years. Uh, but when you think about the broader functions that exist within supply chain, if you want to speak to the score model, we can certainly do that. But you've got your sourcing and procurement, logistics, transportation, warehousing, all cycles of planning and forecasting, of course, manufacturing, um, etc. To this day we still see um, the needs are always there. Um, and I think that's the great thing about working in supply chain is ah, job security is a great thing. And then we've seen um, with that oftentimes, uh, more jobs than there are people to fill them in many areas of supply chain, especially now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Has led to um, uh, increases in compensation as well. Steady increases, uh, that I would say are above and beyond other business uh, functions, um, if you will. So you know, looking at things from that macro lens, uh, those are some of the biggest polar shifts, um, if you will, just kind of going back 20, 20, 25 years. And I could certainly, I was going

Speaker B: to say it's interesting you say that because um, a couple weeks ago I had a conversation on the same topic with Abe Ashkenazki, the CEO of uh, ascm.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And he said the similar things exactly as you said. But he added another uh, important observation which maybe we should put up for our listeners as well. And that was critical thinking skills. Because that, you know, from Abe's perspective that seems to be echoing more and more. Like you mentioned the fact that yeah, I can go get out, I can go get folks now that have the technical skills because this, this newer uh, generation has grown up basically with computers, with social media, with all of those things and they know how to work that, they know how to do these things. They're not encumbered by that which is good. Um, they relevant that. But the question always comes, particularly when we talk about supply chain and the complexity and the differences in our processes, the critical thinking and the other observation, and I'd love to hear your inputs as well that he shared, which I thought was very insightful. He said, you know, let's think back to the pandemic. And after the pandemic we lost a lot of people, so to speak, a lot of people decided to retire. And these were people very, very experienced in these dimensions. Whether it was the planning dimensions, the procurement as you mentioned, uh, the customer, uh, fulfillment and logistics, very experienced. And the intuition, the context, the critical thinking was all there. So now it's exited some of these organizations. And I think the sense is now businesses are looking at this and saying we gotta start to fill back these holes. Do you sense that as well?

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. And so you've got your largest generation. It's exiting, it's been exiting. Right. The stock market has performed extremely well in the last, um, several years. Right. And so folks are able to retire earlier due to their portfolios, um, but you also have maybe three or four years left. So where the generation hits full retirement age. And if you go back to what I said earlier, Bob, where six universities teaching supply chain related courses, everybody's graduating at a very high rate, close to 100% in terms of landing a job out of school. Um, we still didn't pump enough people back then into the workforce to replace the baby boomer generation. So as I speak to clients and executives, they're asking me some of the same questions you're asking. What are you seeing in the marketplace? Uh, we usually land at that middle where the gap is, um, and that makes a lot of sense. Uh, you've got baby boomer generation retiring. We're promoting those folks in the middle up into those roles. But we've pumped a lot of people lately into the bottom uh, ring, uh, at the entry and junior level roles. But it wasn't enough in the last, you know, call it the 10 to 20 years ago to replace this mass generation that's retiring. And so that's where we're seeing, I think to your point and to Abe's great point is that middle area, um, and then that knowledge transfer, um, easier said than done. And so people, companies seem to be having a lot of pain, um, at that middle management, uh, layer, call it the middle part of your career if you will. You know, you got the front third, uh, the middle and then you know, the latter um, as well. And so that's been a constant theme as we talk to companies. And I would even say a lot of the roles and needs we work on is, you know, is in that middle and upper level.

Speaker B: Yeah. And to dwell on that a little bit more, that middle level. When I talk to people at those levels, I often hear the notions of, well, I know that I have to stay abreast with all the technology plus my own career, you know, and they talk about, or they ask about, should I be doing cross functional roles. Like for instance, I'm doing planning right now. I'm thinking about maybe I should take a role in procurement and get a sense of how that's part of the business goes. Uh, some are talking about, well, maybe I need some international experience to sort of round out the whole notion of that. Um, others, you know, they talk about, well, I'm uncomfortable that I'm not getting the training opportunities that I think I could relish in, you know, from my employer. You know, I have to try to do it on my own, so to speak, in addition to doing a job as well. So I think it's a kaleidoscope there. But I think the question is, um, how would you school, how do you school managers right now and how to manage all of this at the middle layer? In other words, uh, getting them motivated not only to do the day to day job, but to reskill themselves and take advantage of all the opportunities that are there.

Speaker C: Yeah, it is a predicament and it's a great question and I think it's, I won't use the word problem, but I think I always look at things as opportunities, um, that we need to solve for. And thanks to institutions and associations, we have a plethora of them across the different areas of supply chain. You mentioned ABE at ascm and they do wonderful work with their, uh, education and certifications and whatnot. Um, and you can apply that to, you know, to other associations. And I think, uh, companies really need to embrace, um, these associations and paying for memberships for their employees. Um, but we also have an abundance of learning opportunities thanks to AI. It's better than it's ever been before. Um, traditionally, books, um, having mentors, coaches, the traditional ways of learning. Now we've got a lot more ways to learn things. We've got podcasts. I have a podcast. I'm on your podcast now. The content's out there. Um, and it all comes down to the yes, companies can certainly nudge and push folks to learn. They can try to transfer knowledge throughout Their organization. And that goes back to what you mentioned earlier. Maybe moving from one function to another, doing that in a very strategic way. Um, where you involve. I like to think of it as treating your. Because supply chain is a people business. Uh, yeah, we have all this fancy tools and technology and bells and whistles, but at the end of the day it's people. And if you're an organization, you've got to be, I would say treating your most valuable assets, your people, um, kind of like you would your supply chain. And I talk about that a lot because I think there's a lot of parallels where I need to maybe forecast where I'm going to have needs. Right. So we call that in HR in the talent world it's workforce planning, but it's a very similar approach and having that kind of an S&OP enterprise wide approach to planning uh, your workforce and allocating resources and having third party external resources. Um, obviously most companies with large assets are going to have, have that for their operations, especially at those really hard to fill and hard to keep hourly levels. So just be thinking about um, how I can leverage my knowledge of supply chain in terms of how I manage, uh, and educate your workforce. Um, because just think in recruiting we have a lot of parallels to those that work in sourcing and procurement. We have a job description. Well, they have um, some requirements or a scope of work that they need to solve for. Then we put on our sourcing hats. I'm looking for candidates that match that job description. They're looking for companies and suppliers that match that scope of work or whatever that objective is that the business is trying um, to solve for. When you resource it properly, people, process systems, uh, and you think strategically and you've got that support from the very top down. Not just the top of the supply chain, but the CEO of the C suite down. And you treat talent as your most valuable asset. Those are the companies that are going to be successful in the long term, um, versus those that take a haphazard approach to their talent. Yeah, that's how I like to think about it.

Speaker B: That's good. I think that those are wise words for our audience. I think the other part of this though, maybe we can get into a little bit on the notion of advanced artificial intelligence. Um, there's been a lot of hype in the market. Uh, I deal with it daily now from inquiries and whatever and writings and things like that. So the bloom is kind of off the rose on advanced AI right now. I think, um, it's going to take another year or so to solidify the strategies here and certainly to be mainstream in supply chain. Um, I think we're a year or two away from that. But that doesn't preclude the fact about people who work in supply chain thinking about this in a sense of, all right, how is this going to change the jobs that we do, uh, the tasks that need to get done, uh, the use of the tools once they get here? I mean, we're seeing the chatbots now, even in the way we do Google searches now. All of a sudden, you know, we get the response. You know, it's like, oh, wow, isn't this interesting? Right? Um, and then, you know, a threat to my m. My sense here as a supply chain industry analyst is, you know, people are writing blogs, you know, by chat, gtp, you know, literally, it just comes out, right. Someday I'm going to see my own words, probably, who knows? But anyway, um, what I'm getting to is I think there's an important sense and, uh, something we should touch upon for listeners here is that thinking about what the new jobs are going to be in supply chain, given all of this technology and how do you prepare for that, how do you understand that and how do you begin to reskill that you touched upon that. But can we. Let's talk a little bit about how management should be looking at this, how they should be transitioning into these roles. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because another thing, we can blend into this, uh, because I wanted to talk about it, but I think we can put the two together. Now. You mentioned traditional job descriptions, right? And we've all grown up with them. You know, I've been in the supply chain management game too long. Over 30 years, right? And I've written my share of job descriptions and responded to them and everything. And I've heard all the frustrations about the fact that. Yeah, but that was a point in time, you know, that was, you know, HR people, you know, they just look for, you know, A, B, C, D, check the block, check the block, get the interviews going and then get the candidates in. But the pace of change now is so, so accelerated right now that jobs literally change. And I started advocating maybe two years ago and I even talked to you about this. I remember the notion of will we ever get to a point where it's not going to be a job descriptions, but a skills profile that companies want to seek? And I know you had some views a couple years ago, maybe you could share with our listeners. What's your sense of that now? Are, ah, we closer to that from your perspective?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Um, let me go back to your earlier comment and just from our podcast and folks we're interviewing and what we're kind of hearing in terms of common denominators as it relates to AI, it's like there's so much, uh, I'll use. There's a lot of hype. Right, um, but it's advancing at an incredible pace. And if anything I'd say you really have to either get on the bandwagon or you risk m. You risk severe damage to your company at some point. So I think taking a cautious approach to how you integrate AI into your business, uh, is a wise move. You don't want to go full speed and just chase every squirrel that's out there. I, uh, look at it as your copilot, um, and I like that term if you think about the term cobots. So collaborative robots you work alongside of and a factory or warehouse or distribution center, um, I look at it as more of. It's going to help us be more productive. Um, it's going to help us with analysis. Now you can dump Excel and data into ChatGPT and other tools and it can help you quickly, um, sort it and assess and decipher and decode and things like that. So I just uh, look at AI as, um, going to be another advancement to the supply chain tool portfolio. Um, uh, this kind of shave points on productivity and maybe help us make better decisions with data and lots of other use cases that we have probably yet to, uh, determine and figure out. So embrace it. Um, but go in cautiously is my advice. And that's advice I'm hearing from others as well. Um, to your second part about, uh, job descriptions and certain we wish it was easy as recruiting and supply chain. I can tell you I've recruited across pretty much every business function. It's like learning a second third language. I'm, um, still learning new stuff to this day. And I've always, you have to have that type of growth mindset if you really want to advance. So, um, that's another tip there. But, uh, is it, you know, I don't even, I don't even read Job when I'm looking. Kicking off a search, uh, it's more important for me to hear from the decision maker, the hiring manager, what they want. And I have a way about going about and extracting that, that information. But it's, for me it's never been about a list of skills on a job description that's oftentimes written by somebody that may not fully understand the job and you get the bigger companies, these job descriptions are used. Analysts, uh, might be used across transportation, warehousing, engineering, you know, different areas of the business. And the only thing they may change is that top paragraph. This role will do xyz. I like to go in a broader perspective and be thinking about, you know, uh, where the real match occurs is I use the term size, scope, complexity. So every supply chain is unique. It's my job to ask the right questions, to assess and understand, um, your supply chain, how it's structured, what's the organizational structure, do you have assets, do uh, you outsource production, what, uh, systems, people, technology, how's everything structured. That gives me a sense of where you're at today and then getting into conversations about where are the opportunities, what are the challenges, what are the risks, uh, what are you trying to solve for? Um, and hey, let's get real granular there. Let's force rank that. What's number one objective that you want this person to solve for in the next year or two? What's number two, what's number three and so on. So if I can get that profile of the supply chain and then get the profile of what do you want to accomplish, Then the skills start, incompetencies start coming into play of what I need to look for. Yeah, right. Because you can't just go off a job description in a salary range and start getting into LinkedIn and looking for people. You've got to understand, you got to have somebody that has worked in a similar supply chain environment. Right. And has accomplished uh, the same things or something similar in terms of relevancy and significance. Um, so that's when we go, when we go to market where we're getting that broad profile of the business and then we get the supply chain touches every aspect of a business, as Abe likes to say. Uh, so I've got to understand your go to market strategies, your distribution channels. Um, once I make sense of that, then it goes back to what do you want to accomplish and finding people that have accomplished that exact thing in a similar, um, business model or supply chain environment. That's where the match occurs. And that's why I think it's so hard to recruit in this space because it is loaded, it is chock full of uh, so much ambiguity and supply chain you can cut it with a butter knife. So you have to really understand this stuff to cut through and to get to the chase. And otherwise you'll be chasing, you know, you'll get off, you'll get off the path. And uh, um, and I think that's why it's so important if you're, you know, you think about how you structure your talent acquisition and your hr, you know, when you have those HR business partners, you know, they need to understand the business, but they really need to understand, you know, supply chain and all these different dynamics and nuances and how it's evolving. Um, if you're going to be a really solid business partner to, you know, the supply chain leadership and so forth and the rest of the workforce for that matter. Yeah, I hope that answered the question.

Speaker B: It did, it did, very much so. So before we run out of time, there was one other topic. Um, you know we mentioned before in our conversation that supply chain is where to be right now. Uh, from business perspectives. Uh, supply chain teams have been through a lot since the uh, pandemic. The recognition of the function now has reached sea level. Uh, that's a good thing, not so good thing aspect of this. Uh, but anyway it's there um, lots of work to do. So you know, before we run out of time. For those people who have careers in other business areas and want to now seek an opportunity in supply chain management, what advice can you give them about doing that? How to best prepare for that.

Speaker C: Great question. Uh, I get that a lot. Uh, I'll say taking a step back, like companies need to really think broadly. You can certainly go into the academic and recruit at those junior levels, entry levels. Um, but the worst thing you can do is draw this long. Going back to job descriptions is have this long skills infested job description where you're seeking this perfect candidate. Um, and I have to, I find myself in an advisory role, uh, often with, with companies, you know, the larger corporations, they seem to have the stuff down, right? But when we work with a lot of mid sized and smaller companies that don't understand and a lot of times you'll start hearing them talk about whoa, whoa, whoa, those are two different jobs. Right. Uh, so I will say, and it goes back to your question too, like uh, have an open mind, you know, like look for the aptitude, look for that curiosity, look for those growth mindset individuals that are driven, right. That you know, where you might, could lean into other functions that are transferable because there's some wonderful people out there and I know a ton of people that uh, you know most folks back in the day, they didn't start out seeking out supply chain, it found them, it found them from other areas of business. So that's my. I wanted to call that out to employers and, um, hiring managers that may be listening, that keep an open mind. Um, it's not about finding the perfect candidate that checks every single box. It's understanding what are the must haves that are critical for success in this role and then finding those soft. The value alignment, the mission, the purpose, the attitude, uh, aptitude and all that is critical. Um, and then back to your question. And you know, it's, it's really understanding. You know, you have to kind of take the time if you're looking to get into supply chain. Listen to these podcasts, right? It's a great way. You know, I know you interview people that. From different walks of life. So do we. Um, and we, we even have a series, the Day in the Life, just to plug that, where we talk to people and we ask them to speak in layman's terms. Don't use acronyms and buzzwords. You know, break it down to its simplest form. Describe what you do, what are the skills? How did you get there? Um, give us a day in the life of what you do, the challenges you run into, the people and the stakeholders that you work with. What are you trying to solve for? Where can you go from this role? How did you get to this role? And then where can you go? What are the different avenues? So, um, try to understand, because there's a myriad of jobs in supply chain, so you've got to kind of understand those dynamics. Go to ascm. They've got a wealth of resources there to learn about the different careers and jobs. Even, uh, at our site semtalent.com, uh, we talk a lot about career paths. So that's step one. You can't really. It's like buying a house. You need to go check it out and figure out what kind of house do I need. Understand it. Get at least a basic understanding, and then you want to map out the skills. Okay, so here are the common skills I'm seeing in these job descriptions. Here are the skills that I have. Map out the skills that are transferable. Um, the hardest part though, is getting the foot in the door. Bob, if your only method is to just apply and post jobs, um, that's going to be the longest path from A to B. Um, you really need to be thinking about your network. Where do I have relationships in some of my target companies? Get out to these events, get out and network. Um, and get to know people that work in the profession. Um, back to ascm, you could say the same thing for csemp ism, et cetera, the other supply chain associations, they usually have chapters in most large cities. So getting out and rubbing shoulders with folks, um, networking is paramount. That's where the magic occurs and that's where you're going to have the best, uh, odds of success. Because when someone, uh, a recruiter is inside of a company and they're getting 100, 200, 300 or more applications, just like I did in my corporate days, um, you know, we're, we're look, we're looking for the most qualified candidates. And if you're coming in without having supply chain experience, you know you're not going to make it to that top of that list. You have to understand that that's reality.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, so the next best option is again is to, is to highlight those transferable skills, um, and you're really going to have to beat down some doors, uh, as it relates to networking. Um, and maybe you have to take a job that could be a level below where you're at now to get that foot in the door and then maybe run to the jobs that people may shy away from. Some of those are going to be in maybe some more rural, uh, locations or they could be out in a dusty or hot manufacturing plant. But think about it as I'm going to take this, I don't want to call it a sacrifice. It's leveraging a step, an opportunity to get your foot in that door, wherever it may be. Um, and then from there then you can start building out on that experience, uh, as you continue to gain it. Uh, but try to have some foresight into, okay, here's skills that I like, the kind of work that I like. And here is a hard no, make sure you don't go into roles or you're just plain old miserable. Even if it gets you in the foot in the door, that might not be the right foot in the door. Um, and that brings up another topic, Bob, that I wanted to highlight. As we talked to podcast guest, uh, we talked about some of the dynamics with soft and hard skills. And you mentioned people working cross functionally in supply chain. One of the common themes that we're hearing about this becoming a greater risk, um, not just the knowledge transfer walking out the door with a baby boomer generation, but it's operations. Um, 50 years of outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas has led to a decline in people moving into manufacturing. Now you think about, um, the latest generations that are gravitating towards, I'll call it maybe some of the sexier roles within Supply chain that are more technology or automation, um, stem, uh, alignment there. They're foregoing um, the roles that are out in the operations um, because they'd rather work at corporate and work in technology, data analytics and so forth. Um, but that's becoming a real problem with those that have operations are starting to exit the workforce. We're starting to see a large pool of people that are analyst, planners, buyers but they lack that operations experience. And so a lot of companies are concerned that um, especially asset heavy companies like hey, I need leaders that can lead um, across our operations. And so there's a big struggle right now in manufacturing and I would even say warehousing with the advent of E commerce, the explosion and the same day, next day, two day, you know, putting up warehouses all over the place, um, has led to talent shortages in operations. Um, so I would advise those that are especially looking to get up to the, you know, um, to those supply chain, those coveted supply chain leadership roles, those chief supply chain officer roles. You're not going to get there as an analyst, as a demand planning manager and up through that vertical. Um, you really need to take the time, have that foresight, have some intention, have a career plan to where, if that's where you want to go. What are those boxes I need to check off in terms of that experience set? And oftentimes if you do take those roles and operations to get that experience, um, and your peers aren't doing that, they're going to just stay down that analytical or technology track. Um, you're going to leap them at some point in your career by gaining that experience. So as we talk to chief supply chain officers, um, it's pretty common that they highlight their biggest fear. And it's not just them, it's other leaders in the business from the C suite is that uh, who's going to step up and run this operation or who's going to coordinate the whole thing from above because a lot of people are not tracking into that operations. And that means manufacturing, warehousing, distribution, fulfillment.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Those are wise words. I'm glad you mentioned that and shared that with our audience because I hear the same thing. Um, you need to have that grounding so to speak. And those of us who've been fortunate to have that, I had it in my uh, early years in my career and it's still valuable to me. It's still a context that I always keep and I hear that constantly in my travels as well. I'm glad you shared that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I shared it just because it continues to be a common theme as we speak with people. It's a very big concern. And uh, as we like to advise people sometimes run to the jobs that people are running away from. Run into the fire. Ah, get that experience. You kind of get, uh, you're going to go, you throw yourself into that environment and real quick, you know, um, you're going to get a wealth of education, um, and accelerated leadership development, meaning your leadership chops, uh, from work, from managing and leading those frontline workers, um, is really going to help you when it gets back to like, okay, I'm taking a corporate job. Not only can you relate to those folks that are out there on the front line that are the backbone of every supply chain, um, in the operations that are ultimately satisfying your end customers, uh, you know, you've got to keep them happy, you've got to lead them effectively because, you know, uh, that's where the shortages are at. And you know, they can, they can go get a job just like that right at the snap of a finger. So, uh, if you take those types of roles, get that experience, um, it will absolutely help you in the long run, especially as you try to climb that supply chain career ladder.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I might finally add on that point, uh, people with military experience, after their military career closes out, a lot of them come into supply chain for the very factors that you just mentioned, uh, because they've had that people leadership experience. They understand the notion of getting things done with constraints and people and things like that. So it's all there.

Speaker C: That's right. And the only caveat there is just, uh, if you're in the military, you know, the quickest path A to B is, you know, typically in that operation. So going into logistics and you know, going into manufacturing, uh, is a natural transition. I would say take the time to learn, um, that the style of leadership that you may have been accustomed to growing up in the military is oftentimes not the style of leadership that will work in corporate America. So you kind of have to undo some learnings in a bit. And I'm not saying anything negative at all. It's more about just the different styles of managing are very different, um, when you move into that civilian sector. So, uh, oftentimes, as I say, is to my employees as I interview people that embrace styles like servant leadership. Where I am here to serve my team, I work for my team, I'm here to make them successful. Because if they're successful, I'm successful, the business is successful, and everybody's happy.

Speaker B: Great, great. So Rodney, as Always. It's been very, very informative. I'm so glad you shared some of these thoughts with our podcast audience. I think it was extremely helpful. Um, and I think they're going to get a lot of value from that. Any final takeaway thoughts that you'd like to leave with our listening audience?

Speaker C: You know, Bob, uh, uh, there's the one big. There's two really. Um, and I think this is important as we move into 2025. You know, um, we've got new administration, new policies. So you really need to be thinking about now, like reflecting back on 2024. What, uh, did I do well? What could I have done better? I think it's so important to take that time to reflect. As I talk to busy executives. They don't take that time. And I'd say I'd stress take that time to reflect. This is a wonderful time of the year to reconnect with your network as well. Um, and then be thinking about what are the goals I'm going to be setting for the new year coming in, um, but also weigh out what kind of changes are likely coming just so you're kind of prepared. Um, no one has a crystal ball. Of course, we don't know what's going to be, um, coming other than we do know there will be changes. Right. And so typically though, as you know, Bob, in supply chain, um, when there's drastic changes, whether it's in regulations or policies, that creates opportunities, um, because you're going to have to go along with that change. And again, back to, I think the earlier statement we made. Is there anything constant in supply chain has changed? Be willing to understand that you may need to pivot to adapt, uh, to this change. Um, that's just one of the things you have. It's constant and you have to embrace it, uh, to work in pretty much any type of supply chain role. The last thing I'll say is just while supply chain, millions and millions of people work in it, it's a very small world. And networking is just networking and having a mentor and a coach. Um, so planning out your career, kind of thinking about the past, thinking about next year, um, making sure you're lighting up your network and cultivating those relationships. Um, the growth mindset we've talked about earlier, um, and then it's so important, I think, to have a coach and a mentor just to help you navigate the common roadblocks and obstacles if you can steer your way around them instead of learning the hard way and going through them and taking a step back. Um, and folks that can really connect uh, you to others and help you figure things out and help you ultimately accomplish your goals. Um, that's the hallmark advice I always offer. Um, folks, uh, that are looking for advice. You cannot go wrong with having a really rich network and having a mentor and a coach and just taking that time to reflect and, and set aside time to plan um, goals and celebrate the milestones along the way. If you can do those things, you'll be very successful.

Speaker B: Very wise words, Rodney. For those who want to maybe get in contact with you, how can they contact you?

Speaker C: Yeah, our site is SCM, as in supply chain management. It's scmtalent.com uh, with my name is uh, Rodney and Apple together and there might be one other out in the, in the, in the United States. So it's a pretty unique name. So you can find me on LinkedIn or put me into Google. You'll quickly come up with my name and probably my contact information. And we have a wealth of uh, content and advice and thought leadership of our own as it relates to the people, careers, talent, professional development, leadership development side of supply chain. All of that is over@semtalent.com and I'm happy to connect with anyone that uh, is looking for some support or help in any way. So reach out and uh, be uh, happy to be of service.

Speaker B: Well, thanks again. So this concludes our Supply chain matters episode 27 podcast episode what Supply Chain Leaders Should Anticipate in Leadership and Workforce reskilling needs in 2025. And indeed, I think we covered a lot of area. Stay tuned to the Supply Chain Matters blog for additional announcements as to upcoming guests and topics related to supply chain management, business process and decision making needs. As noted in my introductory remarks, our 2025 predictions advisory will begin publishing at usually the early January period. Um, we'll have something related to what Rodney has discussed. Uh, podcast listeners can look forward to other upcoming thought leader guests sharing their perspectives of what to anticipate in the coming year. As always, feel free to contact me with your request for additional timely topics and guests. In the meantime, this is Bob Ferrari signing off until our next episode. And always remember, supply chains do matter for successful business outcomes.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Supply Chain Matters podcast hosted by Bob Ferrari. For further information and insights, please Visit our websites www.theferrarigroup.com or the Supply Chain Matters blog at www.suppply-chain matters.com. thanks again for listening and goodbye.