Build Career Momentum Where You Are

Speaker A: It isn't sufficient anymore to say that I am very detail oriented. I can manage a calendar and schedule. AI is doing that. So how to create greater value for yourself as a professional is really deepening those human skills that, you know, we've already had.

Speaker B: Today we're talking about a career season that does not get discussed enough. What happens when you're ready to grow, but your next move is not immediately available? Maybe the job market is slower than you expected. Maybe there's no obvious promotion in front of you, or maybe leaving your organization is not the right decision right now. This does not necessarily mean your career has stopped moving, but it does mean you need to become much more intentional about how you use this season. Joining us are Andrew Seaman, editor at large for jobs and Career development at, uh, LinkedIn, and Gianna Lawrence Primus, founder and CEO of Project Manager Lab. Together, they bring two complementary perspectives. What's happening in the broader career market and what career growth looks like from the inside of an organization. So today we'll explore how to build career momentum in your current role, earn recognition for the impact you are creating, and position yourself for future opportunities. Melissa. I'm, um, your host, Melissa Khan Blackmore, and this is Projectified. Andrew and Gianna, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker C: Yes, thank you.

Speaker B: Before we talk about how people can grow in their current roles, Andrew, can you help us understand what's happening in the job market right now? What are you seeing when it comes to hiring, promotions, and people's abilities to find new opportunities?

Speaker C: That is a really great question because obviously the labor market has become more complex over the years and it's become, I think, more difficult to navigate, especially when you look at the post pandemic era. So right now we are seeing that hiring is down. So it is down even when you look pre pandemic. So obviously there was that blip. So even if, when you go back to 2019, we're still down from there, I think what makes people feel even worse, though, is there was that hiring spree in like 2020, 2022, that I don't think there is even a modern comparison to. So when you look at sort of that 2023 through 2025, now into 2026, slow down, it makes a correction seem even more dramatic. Yes, it is really hard out there, and I think people are struggling a little bit. What we are seeing is really interesting is obviously internal mobility. There's some more movement there. And I think what we're seeing there is obviously companies Are hesitant with uncertainty. They are trying to figure out how do they plan around new technology and you know, when the timeline is uncertain with that. So we're seeing internal mobility kind of be up there, but also we're seeing boomeranging which is, you know, you leave a company and you come back to be a very viable pathway into companies as well. So you know, like I said, a complex market, it's a tough market, but there are opportunities out there and opportunities especially for people who are already in seat and have a job or people who are looking to maybe go back to a former employer.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting. So with that in mind, what are you seeing employers value now that they may not have valued as heavily two or three years ago in a more competitive market.

Speaker C: We call them human skills obviously, but critical thinking, judgment, the higher level stuff where people are going to have to be more adaptable in their day to day work. And I think that's also just the through line when you look at what companies are looking for in general. But bringing in those skills where they can apply those critical thinking skills is really important. But then also they do want people who have newer skills in AI. We put out a list every year called Skills on the Rise. And one of the things we've seen over the years that I think is interesting is it has gone from we want people who are like experimenting with AI and which could just mean like downloading ChatGPT or Claude. And now they're like we want to see you put this into action. So we're seeing more desire for in depth AI skills. Not necessarily like building your own AI system or something, but you know, can you create an agent, can you create a work process or something like that? So those are the things that we're definitely seeing and then any skills that can bring money into an organization, so business development, you know, resource allocation that uh, can sort of keep some money inside. Those are the things especially in this tough environment that companies are looking for.

Speaker B: Yeah, obviously there's so much buzz around AI and I think everyone is looking for a way to build their skills in AI. Gianna, do you have any input on how people can start to set themselves up for success in this AI shift? Maybe some ways we can gain tangible skills as project managers in AI.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think really strongly that critical thinking is a major skill set that uh, project professionals really need to deepen. Particularly if you have emerging project managers coming in. The ability to think critically, the ability to problem solve, emotional intelligence, that's another skill set that I believe Project professionals be experienced or emerging to really improve and enhance the emotional intelligence. And why that is because in the project management field and, um, along with the advancement of AI, a lot of the project coordination work can be done by AI tools. So therefore you as a project professional, it isn't sufficient anymore to say that I am very detail oriented. I can manage your calendar and schedule. So those are some of the skills, particularly when you want to bolster your leadership skills, that you want to leverage that ability to reason and be creative and innovative and not rely on AI to do that. Because AI is able to do a lot of PM work, but is not able to build relationships. It's not able to manage conflicts, understand those nuances on projects when it comes to stakeholder engagement. So those, those are the skills that I think project professionals really need to deepen in this environment and work market that we're in.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen that play out in my role as well. And I hire project coordinators. You both touched on how important critical thinking skills are. Now the criteria I use to hire project coordinators now versus five years ago is completely different because a lot of that work can be done now by an AI tool. Like I'm attaching an AI note taker to my meeting and it's doing so much of work for me that a project coordinator used to do. So I think that's really, really great insight for our listeners. Andrew, uh, we've heard phrases like low hire, low fire market. Can you tell us what that means and how that might change the way people should think about career progression?

Speaker C: Yeah. So low hire, low fire just basically means that people are kind of at a standstill. So people who are looking, they don't may not see a ton of opportunities out there, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there are a ton of people unemployed or being laid off in mass. I think what you can do is sort of broaden your aperture in your current role and say, okay, where can I find the growth opportunities internally? And that could mean taking on projects that have larger budgets. Um, it could be sort of stepping up and say, hey, I want to gain more experience in the specific technology or the specific system and take on some of those fringe projects that actually could move other things along quite quickly. So it's really challenging yourself to say, okay, I'm going to look around this organization and see what's a priority maybe for the business or for me, and what can I use that might set me up for something really substantial later. It's sort of like the Idea of like a shark dies if they stop swimming, like you want to keep swimming somehow like find those opportunities to do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So sometimes the next smart career move isn't always an immediate job change. So Gianna, I want to direct this question to you because I think that Andrew makes a really great point and I want to hear your perspective on this. So when someone stays in a role or an organization that longer maybe than they originally expected, what's your perspective on how they can capitalize on that? And what can career growth actually look like during that stretch of kind of staying put?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. And that was also my experience before I pivoted into project management. It took me about two years before I actually make that pivot. And what I found useful for me and um, what I even advise my clients is that find that opportunity where you are or create that opportunity where you are. Take a look at your skill sets, audit yourself. What are your strengths? Where are you really solid in? When your colleagues think of you, you are the go person for X. Try to identify what problems might currently exist. For me, an example would be process improvement was an area that I found that there were some gaps in the workflows that I was operating in. So because I couldn't make that move to project management at that time, like maybe I could create my own little project and understand what are uh, the processes, why we have these gaps. What, what is creating the bottlenecks, who might be creating the bottlenecks in the workflow and figure out a way in which I can become a solution. I can increase my value to my employer in the role that I'm in. Yes, it does require a bit more of your time, but it's short term sacrifices for long term gains. It does build your credibility, it does increase your visibility and uh, to Andrew's point, it could be a benefit to your employer as well as it's a benefit to you. When I leveraged my opportunity with making changes within six months, I was able to get a promotion.

Speaker B: Love that. Uh, that is exactly what I've done in my career too. To be able to move up even if there isn't. Doesn't feel like there are those opportunities internally. Andrew, I'd love to get your take on that too. Are there some tangible tips that you can give our listeners? Ways that we can kind of use where we are to grow, whether that's learning a new tool or gaining AI literacy experience at the organization that we're currently working in?

Speaker C: Don't be Afraid to just volunteer either for projects that you see pop up or projects that, you know, maybe you've had had percolating on the back burner for a little while. And sometimes it could just be there. I think there's a few ways to do it. It's to pitch it when the timing sort of feels right. One thing I often tell people who have reported to me in the past or who I'm mentoring is like, always have like that idea bank in your head and you'll sort of know when the opportunities pop up. So as you have coffees with people, cross functionally, if things are a little slow, you can sort of say, oh, actually I had this idea and I would love to ren it by you. So even if it's not fully formed, you have like that nugget there to pitch it. But also just tell your managers and sort of your. The adjacent managers, you know, I would really love to learn this, or I would love to do X, Y and Z. And if you have a good manager or you have, you know, sponsors or people who are looking out for you, they will look for those opportunities. And because a good manager realizes like, you know, uh, especially talking to a PM audience, not one person could do everything. So you want someone who says, oh, so and so said they're interested in this. This is their opportunity to shine, and that's how you put yourself up for that next promotion. And then lastly, I think it's being aware of what will be of benefit to you or benefit to the company. There's someone once told me it's if you really want to work on a project, you really look for something that's kind of 50, 50. 50% is your employer, but 50% is like, you want that. So if you're saying like, hey, there's this new process, or there's this new program that's out there, see if you can learn those skills. And that way when it pops up or you're talking to people in leadership, you can say, oh, actually I did a course in that, or, you know, I was doing this. So, you know, I think there's a bunch of different ways. And a lot of it is just sometimes not taking a step back, but sitting back a little bit and like reading the room to say, okay, where is everyone? Where is everything moving? I'm a big fan of maybe taking a pause and sort of saying like, okay, this is where everything's moving.

Speaker B: I love that the general theme of getting that experience for yourself is like just taking the initiative and trying a free Trial of a new project management tool that you've really wanted to learn and just putting some of your project plan in there, even if the organization didn't ask you to do that. So on that note of accumulating more work, I want to ask, is being trusted with more work always a positive sign? And how can professionals tell whether they're genuinely using that extra work to progress or simply accumulating more responsibility?

Speaker A: There is a fine line, I would say, between the two, which is why it's very important for that project professional to understand what is their why, why do I want to do this? And in knowing what your why is, then you're able to craft or create the types of opportunities that will resonate with where you want to grow. And that is important to know, like where exactly do I want to grow? What are the skill sets? What are the pieces of information do I want to gain and how I want to leverage that, having that understanding you. So you're then creating boundaries for yourself because there's only but so much work you can do because you are responsible for portfolio of work and the outcomes and the deliverables and anything beyond that. It should be a bonus to you as well. You should definitely get a benefit out of it.

Speaker B: So I want to shift now to helping people recognize that they're making momentum when they're staying in the same role. So a lot of people worry that if they're not moving on to a new role or getting promoted that they might be falling behind. Any advice on what are some clear signs that someone is building momentum even if they're staying put?

Speaker C: I think it goes back to somewhat. What I mentioned earlier is like, there are the practical things of like, what is the size of this project, how many people am I sort of wrangling here? And then the idea of if it is laddering into sort of the priorities of the org or the company. But I think it is more, you know, like Gianna mentioned, it's more than just saying yes to all this new work because that can just set you up for burnout. It's more of like, is this still challenging me? I think, I think that's my personal litmus test. It's like, do I feel challenged? Am I bored? That sort of thing.

Speaker B: I love the indicator of am I being challenged? Because that's such a simple tidbit that we can take away and ask ourselves when we're. We're feeling a little bit confused about that road. Gianna, what should project professionals track or document so that they can see their own growth more clearly. Do you have any tangible examples or tips on doing this?

Speaker A: For project professionals, I would say that they should track a number of things and it could be as simple as ah, Excel sheet, any type of documentation. Rather than wait for your performance review at the end of the year, you should be tracking your own performance projects that you are currently working on. Keep track of the feedback, be it from your manager or different stakeholder, anything that they have given you credit or kudos for. Keep track of that so that it helps you to see and identify in real time. Oh, someone called out, uh, this particular result that I created for them or I made a, a connection because in the day to day work we may not necessarily see and um, acknowledge all that we're doing or see and acknowledge all of our greatness. Also track the projects that you're working on, areas that were new to you on specific projects, pieces of information that you didn't know so that you can then see how your knowledge base is expanding. You need to be able to take agency and manage your career by tracking how you are showing up as a professional in that space. I think that is very essential for project professionals, especially in a AI enabled workplace. You want to be able to track how you're growing and developing.

Speaker B: So when I think about authenticity, a um, big barrier that I see a lot of people have is they want to post about their work or the impact of their work, whether on LinkedIn or in their professional branding, whether that's their resumes or their portfolio, or even talking about it in interviews. And they want to talk about it in a way that again feel, feels authentic, it feels useful rather than performative. But a lot of people struggle with that. Any tips from either of you on how we can do that?

Speaker A: Being able to be a credible source is just as important as the visibility AI could afford you. Visibility AI can help you mass produce a number of things, but that credibility is. Could you say something that really resonates with someone else? What is that? Human connectivity. Could you bring into your conversations depending on the format in which you convey your information? So credibility is very, very important and it supports the visibility and being able to add value and put it on the table and be unable to walk away from it knowing that, that this what I've said, this what I've written, I've added some value to someone and I could walk away from this piece not wanting anything, not wanting likes, not wanting followers. This bit of information is for you.

Speaker C: Yeah. And honestly, um, Gianna, uh, said the magic word which is value. LinkedIn has sometimes a reputation, uh, for being cringe, as the kids call it. Well, and it's just one of those things where it's like, I think people, they don't often know how to talk about their work, I think, and, and we don't often teach them. So what I sort of landed on over the years, and I think a lot of people who do social media successfully or even sort of pitch themselves in their career, is that they provide value in what they are posting and what they're talking about. And the example I always use is people will sometimes say, like, I don't know, I'm not getting any traction on LinkedIn. And I'll look at their profile and it's them just posting like advertisements over and over again for like a course that they've created or like something they've done that, uh, is just like, hey, look, I'm on this podcast or something, and if you provide someone value, they'll stick around for a little bit. And like Gianna said, it'll give you credibility. And, you know, you don't have to worry about becoming a bragger because you're basically saying, hey, listen, here's what I've done, here's a little piece of information that you could take with you. And especially if you want to grow in your career, I think that's key because the people who are looking to hire you or looking to promote you, they wanna see that you actually know what you know.

Speaker B: I love that. Such great advice. So, okay, moving on now, uh, how do you know when staying put is helping you grow and when it might be time to rethink your next steps?

Speaker A: It comes down to your why any extra time is an investment. Collaboration, that's an investment. Making the effort to pitch an idea, that is an investment in your creativity and your innovation. So how we FR what we're doing, you know, feeds the energy of, if I'm to stay here for six more months, I would like to have this type of language. I would like to use this type of language with myself. I am investing. If that six months comes up and I'm not able to move, what is the next withdrawal can I make? How long can I keep this going? Do I eventually need to find another employer that I'm more aligned with that would give me the project opportunities and the skill development and the knowledge exposure that I need to continue growing in my career? But, you know, there has to be that honesty with is this employer best aligned for me in the Short term? In 6 months and 18 months. But, you know, a project professional need to make that determination as well. It's business at the end of the day.

Speaker B: Right, right, exactly. Andrew, any thoughts on should I K or should I go?

Speaker C: I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier about, uh, you know, am I bored, am I feeling challenged? If that is the case and it sustains for a while, I think that's a good sort of indicator that, okay, it's time to look elsewhere. If you've tried to find growth opportunities internally, if you've tried, tried to talk to your manager and things still haven't panned out, I think sort of that feeling of restlessness of, you know, oh, I've done this five other times before, or, you know, I feel like I'm just on autopilot. That stuff can really be an indicator. And I think project management is a very sustainable and good place to be in the future workforce because it's so dynamic and you can sort of work across industries and things like that. But, but especially that why factor? It's like, you know, we change over our lifetime, the world changes, our needs change. So I think what's really promising about sort of the future is that we can reinvent ourselves. It's not going to be so much like tied to whatever your title is, whatever your function is. You're going to have a really interesting collection of skills, especially coming from the PM side. Like, you know, everyone does a little bit of everything, I think, and um, you know, you can sort of rearrange those so find you know, what you're good at, what you are interested in and then also where there's demand. And I call that kind of the career sweet spot. Often I tell people to make a little Venn diagram of three circles and find what fits in all of them. So yeah, I would, I would say those things are really good ways to sort of look forward and be gentle on yourself and give yourself time.

Speaker B: Andrew Gianna, it was such a pleasure. I've learned so much and I've had such a great time chatting with both of you. I know our listeners are going to such great tidbits and advice from this beautiful conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for joining for productified and I will see you all next time.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you.