The Snowjobs Podcast · 2026-09-07 · 1h 26m
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
55 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
This episode continues the mentorship conversation from the previous week, focusing specifically on how to bid and price sidewalk snow removal services. Drake Holbrook, a young contractor from Finlay, Ohio, asks practical questions about labor pricing, equipment costs, and contract structure for sidewalk work. The panel discusses how to account for payroll taxes and overhead when billing - explaining that if you pay a shoveler $30/hour, the true cost approaches $45/hour when including payroll taxes and administrative fees. They debate markup strategies, with suggestions ranging from 50-60/hour billing rates for $30/hour labor, and discuss the depreciation and replacement costs of shovels as consumable items. Todd Dickerson contributes a memorable note about maintaining the same shovel for 31 years. The conversation centers on building proper cost structures into per-visit contracts rather than guessing at rates, ensuring young contractors don't underprice their work.
Bill at least 50-60/hour for that labor, because when you account for payroll taxes, ADP or payroll processing fees, and other overhead, paying someone $30/hour actually costs you closer to $45/hour, so you need significant markup on top of that to profit.
Quality shovels ($60-70 each) should be treated as seasonal consumables in your pricing, even though some may last multiple seasons, because depreciation and replacement losses are a regular business cost.
Use per-visit contracts with separate line items - one for labor and one for salt - so each service component is priced independently and transparent to the customer.
Ohio appears to pay around $20-25/hour for sidewalk labor based on Drake's local market, but after taxes and fees you're still looking at $30-35/hour true cost, requiring the same markup multiplier as higher-wage regions.
Even if you do the shoveling yourself, you must base your pricing on paying someone else to do it, because that's what determines your billable rate and ensures you can scale if you get more work.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains practical, operational advice on sidewalk pricing, equipment selection, site walkthroughs, liability protection, and subcontractor management. However, it's heavily diluted by personal banter, off-topic commentary about weather, broken trucks, and lifestyle details. The substance-to-noise ratio is moderate; a B2B operator would extract 3-4 actionable frameworks per hour but has to wade through considerable filler.
if you're paying somebody 30 an hour, you bill for, you know, you bid for 50 an hour
your burden rate, what does the equipment cost to buy? How many years before? Basically not totaled, but how many years, uh, of depreciation are you going to get out of that
The advice is sound and operational but largely covers standard industry practices: pricing labor with burden multipliers, documenting pre-season conditions, using weather services for liability defense, and avoiding national chains. These are well-worn frameworks in the snow/landscape business. The counterintuitive angle about liability-driven pre-treatment and scope-of-work documentation is present but not deeply explored.
the difference for. In my mind, that's a difference between lawsuits and not lawsuits
your reputation, that's all you have in this business is your reputation
The panel includes experienced operators with significant track records: Speaker B (multi-season snow/landscape veteran with established business), Billy (safety-award-winning contractor with long tenure and legal/insurance depth), Mike (handles large campuses and multi-unit contracts), and Todd (elder statesman with years in the field). These are practitioners, not consultants or media personalities. However, the focus guest (Drake Holbrook) is explicitly a beginner/young operator, which dilutes caliber relative to the advice-givers but aligns with the episode's teaching format.
Billy Moore back
Todd Dickerson back
The episode includes some concrete numbers: $20-25 CAD hourly for shovelers in Ohio, 2x markup minimum on labor, $39 climatology reports, net-30/net-60 payment terms, 1,200-foot accuracy variance on satellite measurements, example storm sizes (23 inches, 12 inches). However, many recommendations are qualitative (walk the site, document everything, avoid nationals) without quantified outcomes. Site-specific examples (Drake's property with 6-inch drop, VA hospital, Jimmy John's) lack financial metrics or measurable results.
Normally we're getting probably 20 to 20 to 20 to 25
if you're paying somebody 30 an hour, you bill for, you know, you bid for 50 an hour
The hosts ask direct, follow-up questions and push back on Drake's thinking (e.g., questioning his willingness to accept national contracts, probing the bank deal specifics, asking about his property measurement methods). However, the conversation is frequently derailed by tangential anecdotes (weather, broken air conditioners, Louisville football), the hosts interrupt each other, and some hard questions are answered with colorful rants rather than crisp coaching. The episode feels more like a peer-group bullpen session than a structured interview.
But the labor of your shoveling, if you start using machine, Machine's easy. You figure out, you know, what percentage of that machine has to get paid for per hour for that site
don't just listen to us. Um, although I think we're being pretty fair
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
The guys have Drake Holbrook of Holbrook Grounds of Findlay Ohio back for part two to try and help answer any questions he may have and get him started doing snow business the best he can. To help answer questions is Todd Dickerson, Billy Moore, and Mike Santolucito!
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: This no Jobs podcast episode is brought to you by Top Gun Back Blades.
Speaker B: Are you ready for the best damn light of your life? Give me the hell, give me a G. Stand up right now and give me the hell, give me a G. Stand up right now, get ready to go. She ain't moving slow. She's taking control, Pushing the pedal through the. Here we go again. Snow Jobs nation. We are back bringing you episode 187 of the Snow Jobs podcast main show powered by Top Gun Back Blades. The best show in snow. You know who I am? I'm talking to the juice box guy. You know who's with me? I'm one of the baddest of all time, one of the best singers, one of the best looking m you've ever seen.
Speaker C: Hold my drink.
Speaker B: Steve and Jeremy, back again for the 87th Monday in a row. What's up, Jay?
Speaker D: Stevo. Not a lot. Another. Another, uh, week we got going here, buddy. How about you?
Speaker B: How we doing? Good.
Speaker D: Yeah, doing real good. Busy week.
Speaker B: Yep. Yep. You broke a truck.
Speaker D: Uh, everything always breaks.
Speaker E: That's the way it goes.
Speaker D: If you got trucks, something's always broke.
Speaker B: We got a few of them 1000% correct. Even little trucks.
Speaker D: I think I've been working on my air conditioner for about a month. I don't know. It's sick of it.
Speaker B: Just in time. Summer to be over.
Speaker D: Yeah, I'll probably get it fixed right in time for summer to be over. So. It's been a. Been a hot month in the cab, that's for sure.
Speaker B: Really?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: So, man, it's mild as here. It's, uh, like 76 today, I think.
Speaker D: So it's been in upper 80s. 80s. All right.
Speaker B: Oh, that sucks. That sucks for Fargo.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: Any rain? Are you still in a big drought?
Speaker D: No rain here. Zero for rain.
Speaker B: We've been getting steady rain every three or four days. We get a good rain. It's, uh. Everything's still growing. Everything's green again.
Speaker D: Everything's dead here. I don't want these mower guys are mowing every week. They're just making tracks. They're just leaving the shops. All they're doing. They're not moving.
Speaker B: No, they're mowing. They, uh. Listen, I've seen it done. Like, whether it's dead or not, they will roll over the same stripe week after week. You pay me. That's literally what they do.
Speaker D: Well aware.
Speaker B: You know what? And that was one of the reasons I was such a bad businessman back in the day when we did lawns, because I couldn't do that. I just. If it didn't need to get cut, it wasn't getting cut, and we lost. Like, you know, we couldn't, Bill. But, you know, it is what it is. I just, I have a conscience. I couldn't do that. Like, just roll over the same dead shit week after week, uh, you know, for a month and a half with no growth. Everything's stone dead now. Your muffler is starting the lawn on fire as you go over it. I'm so glad we don't do lawns anymore. Holy. Oh, man. Yeah, it's, uh, it's getting down. Getting right down to the nitty gritty here, dude. Yeah, three.
Speaker D: Three tours left, and you're done.
Speaker B: Uh, if you count overtime. Yeah. Of my own Tours. Just two. Yeah. We're September 1st right now recording this. And, you know, in just 10 short days, I will be all done.
Speaker D: Madame gonna pin a ribbon on you or something?
Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker D: I will.
Speaker B: I will head north on the, uh, on the retirement day, and I will never come back.
Speaker D: Where are we going? Nashville. Dominican Republic. Where are we going? Celebrate your retirement?
Speaker B: Uh, to plan something. Yeah, we'll have to plant some. I, I. There's no real. There's no rest, you know, I can't even sit back and say, ah, yeah, this is cool. I'm retired. I'm literally. Well, I'm done on the 12th, and I'm out to storks on, like, the 15th. So it's like, you know, there's no, there's no rest. It's, uh, it's right into. Into the fall show season, right?
Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. What's.
Speaker B: Is Todd jerking off on his boat? What is he doing there?
Speaker D: I think so. He looked like he was waving to somebody.
Speaker B: I don't know who.
Speaker D: I don't know who was driving by, but he was waving on somebody.
Speaker B: He's either playing a violin or cutting his own throat. I don't know what he's doing. Yeah. Oh, uh, but, yeah, no, it's, uh, it's gonna be a good fall. We got Patty. Uh, Salmon says his event is, uh, selling tickets, and he hasn't even started advertising it yet. So it's just guys, uh, hearing about it here and signing up.
Speaker D: Awesome.
Speaker B: Should be a pretty good one. And you got the concert.
Speaker D: Doesn't help. Doesn't hurt. So no concert.
Speaker B: Yeah, you got a couple Storks events. You got SS you got Pat Salmon. We are now going to equip. So, uh, yeah, it's a busy, uh. I did Check. Louisville is not at home that weekend so there's no reason to stick around and try and hit a football game.
Speaker D: Louisville, Louisville.
Speaker B: Louisville was out of town that weekend playing so. Well, uh, maybe next year maybe.
Speaker D: Oh, well.
Speaker B: But uh, yeah, so that's, I mean that's basically it. We're uh, we're back again. We had a great week last week. Everybody is uh, really happy with uh, the last week's episode where we helped out a young guy named Drake Holbrook of Holbrook grounds out in Finlay, Ohio. And that's uh, that's what we're going to do tonight because those uh, of you who listen to it knew as soon as uh, we started to talk about sidewalks, Drake's uh, audio died and Billy uh, just kept going and pure Billy fashion. And uh, even though I was, I was given the kill it signal, like no, no, no. Just one more point. But uh, so we're going to start again with sidewalks and Drake has a couple more questions for the group tonight. And we've added one. You know, we have Todd Dickerson back. We have Billy Moore back. And we added Mad Mikey San Lucito. He is, he is in. He couldn't do it last week but you know, because we made it a two parter, Mike's available tonight and he's jumped in to help out as well. So I uh, if he listened to last week's episode, maybe he has some insights that we didn't think of on stuff we talked about last week. But that is what we're doing tonight.
Speaker D: Yes sir.
Speaker B: Everybody's back in the house for another episode. 187. 187. Holy. How much is this overall? 263.
Speaker D: Not bad.
Speaker B: Not bad bro. Not bad. All right, enough of that crap. You know what we got to do? We got to hear from team Top Gun. We got to come back. We got some announcements, we got some new announcements. We got some job openings. So uh, we're gonna, I guess we're gonna do that now. We're gonna be like the classified sections for snow guys. So we're gonna shout out some job openings that we were asked to talk about. And uh, we have our, our normal weekend review. So we'll hear from team Top Gun real quick. We'll come back, we'll get it on.
Speaker A: Gentlemen, let me tell you about the best kept secret in the snow game. Top Gun back blades. Our all American blade is the largest and strongest pickup truck plow on planet Earth. We're Talking about a 16 to 20 foot wide blade that Makes other snowplows look like toys. This is what peak efficiency feels like. Now you can do more with less. We're currently offering the fly high edition plows with exclusive perks in honor of our late founder, Jason Yonkers. Quantities are extremely limited. Ask about our new skid steer attachment. Get your order started@TopGunBlades.com or check us out on Instagram and YouTube. TopGunLade. Welcome to Team Top Gun.
Speaker B: All right, guys, we're back. Thanks to team Top Gun, as always. So some announcements here. We got Storm Chasing Season 2. As we talk about every week, five episodes are up on the Storm Chasing YouTube page with one to come. The last one of the season. The grand finale. Saved the best for last. Top Dog services is, uh, airing. When is it? Next week, right?
Speaker D: No, this week, though.
Speaker A: This week.
Speaker C: This Friday.
Speaker D: It would have been. It would have been. Would have been the last. Would already aired when this is. That is.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: It's already dropped, so go watch it. If you're listening to this, go check it out.
Speaker D: It's huge. Yeah. Top dog gonna be the best.
Speaker B: It's gonna be the top dog. I mean, that's.
Speaker D: Yeah. Well, I'm in it, so why not?
Speaker B: Are you in it?
Speaker D: Damn right I'm in it.
Speaker B: They didn't. They didn't cut you out. No, they should.
Speaker D: I. I wrecked. I wrecked something, so I'm in it.
Speaker B: So, uh, good. Can't wait to watch it.
Speaker D: Cool.
Speaker B: All right, so like we said, head on over to storm chasing YouTube page. Check out all six episodes. Season two is complete as of the time you're hearing this.
Speaker D: So, uh, a bunch of glacier boys. Sorry, A bunch of glacier boys are in it, so check it out. See?
Speaker B: So go check it out. So season, uh, two is in the book. So on behalf of storm equipment and the snow jobs, want to thank everybody that went and watched everything we put out. Um, thank you very much for your time and, uh, we hope you guys enjoyed it. September 16th and 17th is storks, uh, and SNS. All right, that's our Pennsylvania swing. We got Wednesday is plow tech school at Storks. Uh, that's teaching you how to service all your Douglas Dynamics plow and spreaders. So they, uh, you don't need them at three in the morning. It's a great class. It is sold out. Gene, uh, was talking about adding another day. If he does, we'll let you know. Thursday, you head on over to Scranton SNS Snow and Ice Solutions, 6th Annual Snow Show. All Right. And then if you're doing that, you might as well head back to storks, the 18th and 19th for storks 40th anniversary open house. Uh, October 1st in Uxbridge, Massachusetts, is the third annual Northeast de Icing Solutions. The icing day. All right, it's Patty Salmon and company. Uh, your year one was great. Year two was even better. Can't wait to see how your three goes. Uh, tickets are selling quick, uh, so Patty wanted us to shout that out. So if you're interested in going, then definitely get your tickets now. Uh, what else?
Speaker D: Present. You gotta be present to win that, Brian.
Speaker B: So there you go.
Speaker D: The brine, uh, tanker of Brian.
Speaker B: Joe, uh, Uran from Nordic out in Minnesota. He had texted me about a, I think, operations manager opening. I cannot find the text anywhere. Joe, I apologize. But if anybody's out in the Minnesota area and you're looking for a new adventure, new, uh, new surroundings, give Joe Uran a call over at Nordic. Uh, they. They do have a job opening for. I believe it was an operations manager. I've looked in both socials and my text threads. I cannot, literally cannot find what Joe sent me. And I apologize. Uh, I'll get them. I'll get it read next week, for sure. I'll get them to send it again. Uh, no, I'm not in Minnesota. Uh, and if you're in the New York, upstate New York area, Bison Facility Maintenance Services is, uh, they are doing a. A big push, uh, for. For hiring for the upcoming snow season.
Speaker D: All right?
Speaker B: They're hiring heavy equipment operators, salt truck drivers, plow truck drivers, sidewalk crew, uh, all from Albany all the way up to plattsburgh for the 2026 winter season. So to apply, you can go online to Bison FMS M dot com, that's Bison. F as in Frank, M as in Mary, s as in sam.com. or you can go to one of their hiring events. September 12th at the Aviation Mall in Queensbury from 3 to 10, or September 22nd at La Quinta Hotel, uh, 16 Plaza Boulevard, Plattsburgh, New York, from 1 to 7. All right, they are. They also have hiring events coming in Saratoga Springs and Albany. Uh, those dates are to be announced. All right, so if you guys are in the upstate New York area, check them out. Bison Facility Maintenance Services. All right, they are looking for operators this year.
Speaker F: What else?
Speaker B: Jay, you got anything else?
Speaker D: I don't think so. Store. Buy some product.
Speaker B: Yep. Snowjobsnationstore.com head on over and become one of the best dressed guys in snow. You you have all your impossible swag you could ever want in the store. Uh, you got tumblers, you got all sorts of good stuff. So head on over to Snow jobs nation store.com help us out. Help Jeremy empty out his office here and buy some swag. Uh, keep hitting like and subscribe on Apple podcasts and Spotify. Drop those five star reviews for us. They mean more than you know. And definitely, uh, don't hesitate to comment as well. You guys comment. We see the comments. It helps us keep bringing you more of what you want. Like the episode today. All right, A lot of good, positive feedback. We got a lot of comments on, on last week's episode, uh, from younger guys and actually older guys too, saying they wish they had something like that when they were younger guys. So, uh, we definitely get the comments and it helps us keep, keep, uh, doing episodes that you want to hear. All right, Anything else, Jay?
Speaker D: I think we're good, buddy.
Speaker B: All right. I think we're good. So let's hear from our partners real quick. We'll come back. We'll get it on. Hey, guys. Steve here. We're always looking for ways to save on labor and increase safety for our people. Last year I purchased a game changing snowblower from my company that does just that. It's called the Musk Ox. Its patented back drag feature and design lets us get right up to our HOA garage doors in tight spots. Clean them all right down to the pavement without scratching. This beast can also scrape hard pack going forward if you need it to. It's truly a dual threat blower. Give Musk Ox a call. Their staff are extremely knowledgeable and have been amazing with us Muskox snowblowers that back drag step into the future of snow removal with arctic snow and ice products where innovation has been our driving force since the early 2000s. We're redefining efficiency and reliability for snow contractors nationwide. Explore our range from the game changing sectional snow pusher to the versatile double down salt bucket. Don't miss our latest innovation as we introduce the Razorback, the first ever sectional moldboard truck plow. Join us in shaping the future of snow removal. Discover more at www.arcticsnowproducts.com. you know what it takes to keep winter in check. Long nights, cold mornings. Crews that never quit. That's who Boss snowplow is built for. From plows and spreaders to sidewalk and liquid solutions, every boss product is engineered for snow professionals like you. Tested tough, uh, built smart, proven to deliver when it matters most. We don't just make snow and ice equipment. We design it to dominate every storm. So when the snow starts flying, you're not just ready, you're boss ready. We're boss Snowplow. And we do whatever it takes to back you up. Guys, if you follow the show, lately, you've heard us mention the Plow Ride snow stakes. Well, now that I've tried them, I have to say I'm a huge fan. Installing traditional snow stakes is time consuming, expensive, and if you're using fiberglass, just downright dangerous due to the splinters. That's where the Plow Rite marking stick system comes in. Their patented installation tool can install up to 450 stakes per hour. The stakes are made of hollow polypropylene, which will not crack, break or splinter. They have three different size options from 26 to 46 inches. Come in five standard colors. Orange, green, blue, red, and hot pink. Best of all, everything is 100% made in the USA. Log on to plow-rite.com and order yours today. Be sure to use the promo code snow jobs at checkout to save 10% off your order. All right, we're back. We are back. Forgot to tell everybody Happy Labor Day because this will be dropping on Labor Day. So I hope everybody had a great weekend with their families, celebrating holiday and, uh, relaxing. And now, uh, it's time to get back into work. Get your mind right. So. Welcome back Drake Holbrook to the show. Welcome Mike San Lucito. Welcome back. Billy and Todd and uh, how are we guys? What up?
Speaker E: What's up?
Speaker B: Going on. How's everybody doing? Hello, Billy.
Speaker D: Doing good.
Speaker G: Hey, Fantastic.
Speaker B: I saw you got an award, Bill.
Speaker G: What'd you get?
Speaker C: A safety award assignment.
Speaker G: Somebody's lucky.
Speaker B: They're at the seminar at the symposium trade show. Yeah, and they're just posting it now. Oh, interesting. Wow.
Speaker D: Oh, uh, congratulations.
Speaker B: Yeah, congratulations on being so safe.
Speaker E: Yes, we try.
Speaker B: There you go.
Speaker G: That's all you can do first.
Speaker D: Cool.
Speaker B: Yeah, I saw that this morning. I was like, billy got an award from sima.
Speaker D: Got to get a bigger wall there. Billy, with all your awards, start moving
Speaker C: it into the garage now from the office.
Speaker B: You just start weatherproofing them, putting them on the outside of the house. Nothing but awards. That's it.
Speaker C: What the is this?
Speaker B: Oh, Drake, how you doing?
Speaker C: Not bad.
Speaker E: Just trying to survive the heat over here.
Speaker B: Yeah. Is it hot?
Speaker E: Um, I mean, today we got a little lucky by a little bit of rain, but otherwise it's still hot and humid.
Speaker G: All right.
Speaker B: How, uh, how was this past week for you? Did you talk to any of your friends? What did they think of the episode?
Speaker E: I mean, everyone liked it. I mean, I don't, I don't really talk to many people that are doing the same thing besides a couple local contractors. But I mean everyone that I talked to enjoyed it.
Speaker B: Good.
Speaker D: So very good.
Speaker B: Well, a lot of, a lot of young guys out there did reach out this week and uh, and like I said, a lot of older guys too, saying they wish to, they wish somebody would have done that back in the day. So uh, a lot of good feedback and we'll, we'll keep going. So uh, we'll start with where uh, we left off when uh, the audio dropped there. Your sidewalks. So what questions do you have about bidding sidewalks or pricing sidewalks?
Speaker E: Yeah, I was just more curious on how, how exactly you guys are pricing them and going about like how to get the pricing and implementing that into your quote.
Speaker B: Well, I think the first thing is what are your options for clearing sidewalks? What are you rolling with?
Speaker E: Normally we're running, ah, you know, your normal um, snow shovels and uh. Yeah. And then you know, we use a couple snowblowers and we have a John Deere long tractor with a uh, a four foot plow on it which is perfect for our sidewalks around here.
Speaker B: Okay, so do you have it set in your mind like, all right, if it's below 2 inches, I'm shoveling. If it's you know, 4 inches, I'm um, snow blowing. If it's over that, I'm running the tractor. Do you have any kind of structure set up for what's going to do what or.
Speaker E: No, it's really, I depends on the property. Like the lawn tractor we only used on our, on that senior living center we had last year because it was a bigger one. There's a lot of sidewalks, but most of my sidewalks are. I'm um, under a quarter acre of sidewalks, so it's usually just quicker to hand shovel. And I'm going frequently enough where it's not piling up a lot so I can just get by shovel, even though I don't like being out in the cold sometimes.
Speaker D: And you said most of your snow events are what, 1, 1 inch, 1 to 3?
Speaker E: 3.
Speaker D: Gotcha.
Speaker G: Yeah, it's a nice quick, easy shovel.
Speaker D: You know, dry, dry, dry snow or wet snow?
Speaker E: Usually, uh, it really depends on the year. Like last year everything was really dry. But normally it's just hit or miss. One's dry, one's wet. Usually. Usually we don't get those 32 degree
Speaker B: snowstorms okay, so you, you'll be doing the shoveling, right? You said you're going to be doing the shoveling. So even if you're doing it, you still got to base the labor on paying somebody else to do it. What are you going to pay a shoveler when you have shovelers, how are you going to attract a shoveler? What, what hourly is going to be able to get you an 18 year old kid that's going to come out at 3 in the morning and work, work his butt off in the freezing temperatures with you?
Speaker G: What's your, what's your market asking for right now?
Speaker B: Yeah, what's uh, what, what works in Finlay as far as labor?
Speaker E: Normally. Normally we're getting probably 20 to 20 to 20 to 25
Speaker C: misos.
Speaker F: Yeah.
Speaker G: Send them to Boston.
Speaker B: Is that euros?
Speaker E: I wish.
Speaker D: Canadian.
Speaker B: Canadian.
Speaker C: Not unacceptable.
Speaker B: It's 38 cents American.
Speaker G: Oh.
Speaker B: Um, so I mean just, just always remember one, once you're doing everything like, and I'm sure, I'm sure like everybody can see me rolling my eyes. Once you're doing everything legit and you're paying everybody on the books at all times, uh, just remember whatever you're paying them hourly will cost you like, uh, you know, time and a half basically. You got payroll taxes, you got all sorts of taxes. You got, you know, if you're using a, uh, company like paychecks or ADP payroll company, you know, they, they charge you for that. So if you're paying somebody 30, it's probably close. Costing you closer to 45 to pay them.
Speaker E: Yep.
Speaker B: All right, so you got to put that, you got to put that in the bid. So your billable hours, you know, I would go higher than that, honestly. Just round it up. If you're gonna pay him 30 an hour, you bill for, you know, you bid for 50 an hour,
Speaker D: you bid for more than that.
Speaker B: Uh, you could, you definitely could. But right now he's doing it himself, but even so
Speaker C: well.
Speaker G: And then you gotta get yourself like a supervisor.
Speaker E: Yeah. Which. Those are what, 60 or $70?
Speaker B: The shovels?
Speaker E: Yeah.
Speaker G: You get a good one.
Speaker B: Yeah, if you get a good one.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: The snowplow shovels are not cheap and uh, you know, those things walk all the time and, and that's, you know, the pre. There's depreciation on shovels. How long are you gonna get out of them? You're gonna, you know that's a seasonal replacement. Honestly that, in my mind it is anyway. Even though, you know, we'll buy 20 of them and 18 of them will make it through the season. But, you know, we're still pricing it on new contracts. We're still putting that in there. That's still a consumable.
Speaker F: I've had the same shovel for 31 years.
Speaker B: That's awesome. Todd,
Speaker G: your first. Still have the sticker on it.
Speaker B: Shoveling a lot at the airport.
Speaker D: Still in the garage, still in the paper.
Speaker B: Still got the plastic on it. Oh. But yeah, I mean, it's. It's pretty crazy when you get into. When you get into machines and a lot of sidewalk. But for just shoveling, just figure out what you want to make an hour for it.
Speaker F: I mean, you got to be at least 2x, right?
Speaker B: Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. I would say if you're 30, you're at least 50 to 60 on the. On the bid.
Speaker D: Oh, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker G: Are you trying to build a production rate?
Speaker E: Yeah. Based on that. It was more just for the. Because Billy sent me over his, uh, contract form and it's a per visit. So the cost for the sidewalks is separated. Salt for the. Salt for the sidewalk is separated.
Speaker B: Well, that's separate. Yeah. You're just talking the labor to shovel it. Then we'll get into salting it. But the labor of your shoveling, if you start using machine, Machine's easy. You figure out, you know, what percentage of that machine has to get paid for per hour for that site. And then if you're. If you're not sure how long it's going to take, you take the machine over there. We've taken sidewalk machines in September, and we've drove them very slowly down the entire length of what they're going to have to clear at a much slower rate than they would go in a storm. And we time them and then we pad it out a little bit. And there's your number.
Speaker E: So how do you guys normally go about getting your. Your rates per. For different machines?
Speaker G: Same thing. Just take each machine out, do the same pass. However many feet you can clear in an hour, square foot square, uh, footage wise, Whatever you want to get for that piece of equipment, depending on the cost of that equipment, that's it. And your, your burden rate, what does
Speaker B: the equipment cost to buy? How many years before? Basically not totaled, but how many years, uh, of depreciation are you going to get out of that before? Basically it's a pile of, um. And then how much money you look at that. How many hours approximately are you going to get out of that, using it each season? What is your approximate number of work hours? And then you Figure out how much you need per hour. And then go slow.
Speaker D: Here.
Speaker F: Low.
Speaker B: That's it. Go slow. Slow is. That's how you get safety awards, you know, you go slow.
Speaker C: Damn right. Slow is key. Slow as smooth, smooth as fast on the paper. Fast as hell when you're in the field. Yeah.
Speaker D: Oh, uh,
Speaker B: well, yeah, that's. That's. I mean, that's basically it. And then salt. You got to figure out how much salt you're going to need to do it. You know, the cost of the salt, the cost of the labor to put it down, how long it's going to take you to apply it. Are you using a drop spreader? Are you doing it by hand?
Speaker E: I mean, you know, some. Some areas is by hand, but most of the time it's just a drip push spreader. So the drop spreader.
Speaker B: So how much does that push spreader cost? How long are you gonna get, you know, out of that push spreader? Are you getting more than one year out of a push spreader?
Speaker E: Uh, yes, about. So the one I had last year I used for salt, and this year I've used it for seed.
Speaker F: Good.
Speaker B: What brand is that?
Speaker E: It's an Echo.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker E: Push salt spreader. And I have. It's been great. I mean, I. Last year I. I did. I did break one. I blew a pin out on it, which. And then it just completely destroyed everything on it. So.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker E: Uh. Because I didn't catch it in time. So that was just one of those. The problem is I. I like to over overload it. It's met for 80 pounds and I kept throwing two bags in there, so it's 20 pounds over. So I just.
Speaker B: Nobody's ever done that before.
Speaker G: It's not overloaded.
Speaker D: No salters. No salters ever loaded?
Speaker B: No.
Speaker C: You haven't bought sprouters in years. My guys, they take old seat belts or old straps and they strap buckets.
Speaker B: Put them on a bucket, they won't.
Speaker C: No spreaders.
Speaker B: Yeah, you do the old back of the fingers.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker G: That's it. Yeah. It's an artwork.
Speaker D: Yeah, they definitely are good at that. Uh, I've seen them. They just. Yeah.
Speaker B: Well, yeah, you. I mean, that's all. You just figure out how many. Again, how much salt you need for coverage. If you. If you're doing it by the bag, you know, you have experience with this. How. How far does a bag go for you in the drop spreader?
Speaker E: Um, yeah, I mean, like I said, it just really depends on the setting of how. How heavy you're going and all that.
Speaker D: There you go.
Speaker E: Are you guys normally going heavier on sidewalks in your parking lot?
Speaker G: Right.
Speaker B: No, I mean me m. No, I use treated salt. So we're going light on everything because you really don't need a lot of it if it's, if it's hot. Um, and normally it is hot. Last year it wasn't so hot. But you know, we're making a change this year back to very hot salt. So we're going very light. We pre treat too. So we pre treat which prevents the bonding. And then once we clear it. You know, the nice thing is once you pre treat, there's no bond there. So even with a, even with a snowplow shovel, that shit's coming up clean as a whistle. So you require very little salt on the back end of it on a, uh, post treat.
Speaker E: How are you guys pushing the pre treating sites? I've had a couple. We've tried to.
Speaker B: We're not giving them a choice. This is how we do things. This is why we do it, and this is why you hired us or this is why you called. Um, we don't give them a choice on the pre treat. The pre treat is non negotiable because that's the difference for. In my mind, that's a difference between lawsuits and not lawsuits. Not having lawsuits. You got to prevent the bond. People don't slip and fall on snow. They slip and fall on the bond created by the snow if it's untreated. Anybody disagree with that?
Speaker G: No, not at all. I feel like clients complain when they see preterm because guys do it too early. If it's granular and they have tracks all over the place. But if you're doing it like even 12 hours before the storm or they
Speaker B: put too much down. A pre treat does not require a lot of salt.
Speaker G: Yep. It's not supposed to be a full treatment, half at best.
Speaker B: Oh, if that. Yeah. I mean you, you literally all you want that, that salt to do is dissolve and create a barrier when the snow starts falling. It creates a barrier, prevents the bonding, makes the surface, uh, uh, less slippery and safer for people that are walking in the snow. And then you come along, clean it up clean as a whistle, and drop a couple handfuls behind you, you're good to go. But yeah, we don't, we don't give them an option on it. That's, that's the only way we do snow.
Speaker E: Are you guys all liquid for the pre. No.
Speaker B: No, we don't. I don't do any liquid. Billy does. I do, I do Todd does. Mike, does. Jeremy. Firebrand fire brine Fargo. Fire brine firebrand over salty radio. It's uber hot
Speaker D: over salting from the last time. Oh.
Speaker B: Uh, so yeah, causes all those Canadian fires. I think the fire brine, the fire brine, it's. I mean the gr. The gravel is very hot in Fargo. Uh, that's for sure. Spray that stuff. Um, make sure. The one thing I will say about sidewalks is make sure you document any joints that are out of whack that people are going to trip over. Uh, any damage to the sidewalks already. You make sure that you document the crap out of that, especially any trip hazards. That is, you take that photo, you send it to them via email. So it's documented and they need to sign off on it. That, that can. They are aware that condition exists. That way when somebody takes a header on that joint, it's not. Oh, well, we slipped on the ice. No, you didn't slip on the ice. You slipped on. Because the two pieces of pavement have a six inch difference in them.
Speaker G: I mean, hell, take them with you. I'm sure they'd love to get out of the office.
Speaker B: Honestly, you have to do a walk through.
Speaker F: Yeah, honestly, I'd video the problem property prior all, you know, curbs, sidewalks, everything. So that if there's ever damage, you can go back to that video prior to the season.
Speaker B: Absolutely. Billy, what do you do?
Speaker F: Video?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: And then anything major that sticks out, we GPS pin, pin it. I guess if you would. Uh, I don't know what the technology would be, but yeah, drop a pin. But a lot now. Technology's changed. It's so easy. Just do a site video. Really real easy. You know, then it goes back to what, the couple episodes before. Uh, we actually put that in our contracts too, that we are going to shoot video. We are going to take pictures. It's not just for social media. It's obviously for in documentation, odysseys and you know, pre season inspections and all that good stuff. Excuse me.
Speaker B: Yep, site photos are good for that. Like Billy said, it drops a GPS pin where you took the photo. Just have to make sure that you, uh, you have that documented with the property owner. Doesn't matter if you took the photo. If you didn't notify them and have them try and rectify it. Um, but yeah, I mean, anything else on sidewalks.
Speaker E: Drake, um, what are you guys doing to protect you guys, Protect you guys from lawsuits. Every storm, you guys, everything.
Speaker C: I'm an electrician.
Speaker B: Back to trade school.
Speaker D: There is no protection trade school.
Speaker B: There is no. There Is no guarantees, there is no protection. Your quality of work, the amount of how anal you are before, during, and after the storm, um, your level of service, you know, having 15 properties that take you a half an hour, 40 minutes between them to get to, you're gonna have gaps. You're gonna have, you know, a bad storm. You could have 3, 4 inches of snow on that property. And then if you haven't done a pre treat, you're not plowing it regularly, you're just asking for it. So, you know, keeping a nice and condensed route, um, that allows you to not bite off more than you can chew. That will help protect you. You know, the more often you can keep, you know, the area safe, the better you're going to be.
Speaker C: Lots of documentation too, obviously. I think we all know that. Good service records, pictures, documentation, the weather reports, uh, whatever you use, true weather, what have you. Um, keep those documents, you know, in a file folder for. This is what we did. Yeah, I don't care if you log it by hand, like, hey, we salted here, took picture, timestamp photo. You didn't even. There's so many free apps that just have timestamp photos and say, hey, we salted on this day. Here's the weather report. This is the free stall. More, uh, documentation than probably ever what's needed. But you know what, when you need it, you're going to need it.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we're not, we're not attorneys, so we're just giving you our opinions. And you know the one, it's, it's on you. You're gonna have a slip and fall sooner or later. It's on you to prove that it was an accident and not negligence. Uh, there's a big difference in payout. Uh, in those two cases, if it's an accident, the payout's a lot less. Maybe they're, the insurance company's gonna give them medical bills and, and that kind of crap and maybe a little extra to go away and that's it. Negligence adds a couple zeros.
Speaker G: Yep.
Speaker B: So if they can prove that you did not do what your contract said you were supposed to do, you did not, you did not have your scope of work in check. You were not abiding by that. Um, that's where you start being able to prove negligence on the snow contractor. So make sure your contract is tight. Uh, it spells out very clearly what your, what their expectations are, what your level of service is, what your scope of work is. Um, because the scope of work is important because say, somebody slips on an area of like you have now like shopping malls and stuff and department uh, stores that they no longer require the parking lot size that they once did. So they'll tell you, listen, uh, we only want the front half, the first 200 parking spots cleared. The back half, we don't. Well if somebody slips on that back half, uh, or says they did because you didn't plow it, you need it spelled out clearly in that contract that, that scope of work told you not to touch that, that puts the onus back on the property owner and off of you that. Well I didn't touch that because I wasn't supposed to. It's in the contract, it's in my scope. So make sure everything's very, very clearly spelled out.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker G: Ah, Drake, I'm going through that exact scenario right now. From a slip and fall from January. It was a secondary entrance that during the walk through we were told it is not something that needs to be cleared. There was another entrance door literally five feet from, um, was a patio entrance that I don't know, somebody went out for a smoke break and decided it was a good idea to not look down and see if it was shoveled and he slipped. And of course it's not spelled out verbally in the contract. We're going to be on the hook for it to some extent. But there's a little back and forth going on with it right now. But we're finding out the hard way for some of these things that the more you're missing verbiage wise on um, like say it. So a parking garage. I have a 7 fall that I just got two weeks ago from a parking garage in Wakefield and one of my, my best client sites and the picture that they had in the uh, in the email that the lawyer had sent over, it was clearly drifted over. I know the storm. I remember the date and the guys were home sleeping because they'd been up for like 30 some odd hours. It was uh, it was a Friday. And yeah. You walked through drifted snow to go to your car. Were you not being cautious? Were you wearing the wrong shoes? Like what, what could have prevented you from falling? Aside from, you know, me having a robot there that just doesn't fall, fall asleep and clearing it. But we're still gonna be on the hook for it regardless.
Speaker B: Yep, that's how they get you.
Speaker D: Mhm.
Speaker B: That is how they get you.
Speaker D: Nobody's responsible for themselves anymore.
Speaker B: Billy, have you ever had a situation like that?
Speaker C: Uh, we've had uh, a couple things. One uh, year we had something at the courthouse. Apparently he had a bench warrant. They kind of threw it out. She was, she was going to jail that day. But there was some back and forth, but they went through camera footage. She, you know, did the looking around and oh, is there a puddle there? But oh God, I'm not going to jail. But you know, she can't sue the courthouse because it was a government entity. So she tried coming after me, but the temperature was 40 degrees out. So luckily we had those documents and what we did 36 hours prior and after. And then we had another gentle. We get a lot of uh, a lot of bullshit. We had another customer that literally came out of the woodwork. Two years later. I pulled up true weather documents actually at Mark. I said, what happened on these days? I can't find it. Nothing with, you know, seven days prior or after. There was no deicing. Weather was somewhat mild. Another one looked in the camera and actually the company paid him out 80 grand that I didn't pay a dime. I said, you got to be kidding me. I told my client, why would you do this? He said, just make it go away. There was nothing here. Uh, and it was on a Sunday. They were closed. This, ah, is a warehouse. This wasn't a shopping center.
Speaker B: Americans have lost the will to fight. Why are you just going to roll?
Speaker G: They lost all the tools to fight.
Speaker B: Uh, that's serious though. But I mean if you have cameras and you have evidence that says this guy's full of shit, fuck it. I mean you're gonna, you're gonna pull that crap. But I mean, Drake, to knock it off topic, you're, you're hearing, regardless of who's talking. Mike, Billy, myself, Jeremy, Todd, you're hearing a theme, a recurring theme that a weather service. A weather service, yeah. Be an electrician and a, uh, weather service is very valuable for more than just the predictions. We work very closely with true weather. We work very closely with weather pros. You can't go wrong with either one of them. But you, you should have a weather service for that very reason. Something gets dropped on you from two years ago. Are you going to go into your, you know, your, your pad and paper and have what the temperature was when they slipped at 3:00am What m. Uh, was it still snowing? What was the, the, the blacktop conditions? That is all things you can get two years. All the data from the weather pros and true weather, they all have that, that's all cataloged. So that will help you. You said, how can I protect myself from lawsuits that's a big way to do it for a relatively inexpensive, you know, cost, very reasonable. True weather and weather pros are very reasonable. And, uh, interestingly enough, we spoke to Mark Shannon Berger this morning from True Weather, and he heard your episode last week and he wants, wants to help get you started on the right foot. So he is offering you, if you would be interested, a free subscription to his forecasting service and, uh, one location for certified snow totals.
Speaker E: Sounds, uh, great. I appreciate it.
Speaker C: I think Mark should offer it to the whole panel, right?
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: I mean, there's a lot of drops right here. I hope you're listening, bud.
Speaker B: That's phenomenal. Thank.
Speaker D: Thanks to the Doctor. Yeah, the Doctor.
Speaker B: The Doctor. Mark is the best. I mean, there's not a nicer guy out there. Uh, he's awesome. Yeah. He takes care of people. And, uh, you know, thanks to him, in True Weather, that's really cool to do. And, you know, we keep hearing this overwhelming theme with last week's episode. A lot of guys, the older guys are all saying, I wish that somebody would have done this for me 25, 30 years ago. And the younger guys are all saying, this is awesome. Like, I took so many notes. Like, it's really cool. And, uh, that, that's a really cool thing that, uh, that True Weather is doing for you. And you should really, you should definitely appreciate that because that you just asked a great question. How can I help protect myself? You know, the. That's one of the ways you can. Because you're not going to have that information. You know, most people won't. I mean, you, you got to be really anal to go back in your files and have. But, you know, I may even have, okay, it was 34 degrees and snowing, but I'm not going to be able to pinpoint. Okay, at 2:00am on the 23rd of December, you know, 2018, it was this temperature. The weather companies are going to have that kind of data stored. So that can help you. And they, they have helped guys that have gotten involved in lawsuits. They have helped guys. They've given them the information they need to fight it. The insurance companies need to fight it. And they've got. I know for a fact they've gotten a couple of them thrown out. So it's, uh, like I said, it's a relatively inexpensive m. In all the things we use for snow. The, the weather companies, at least true weather and weather pros who we both work with, uh, they are relatively inexperienced. You get a lot of bang for the buck. Uh, and for anybody that was asking. We did get a couple questions. We told you last year. Get climatology reports and stuff. Um, I know through true weather that's $39. I. But I already told Mark you got to charge more for that. So I'm serious. Like that's not enough money. Like that's you. You got to get a little more value for that.
Speaker D: That.
Speaker B: Because it's that important. And once people understand how to use those climatology reports, they understand they're. They potentially can make thousands off a good climatology report if they know how to use it. So 39 is a little too cheap. You know, those guys got to make their money too.
Speaker F: And these retired guys just got extra money just flying all around, don't they?
Speaker B: Uh, 39 bucks. You spend that at McDonald's right now with a family of three. Not even Sean. You know Sean does, but I don't. Dude, you get two value meals and like a ice cream cone. It's $38. And McDonald's ridiculous. So everything's up.
Speaker F: I don't eat there.
Speaker B: So 38 is the new 10. Like it's ridiculous. They don't have a dollar menu anymore. They have the $10 menu.
Speaker E: I spent $80 at Wendy's last night to buy dinner for.
Speaker C: For who?
Speaker B: Sean was out there. Sean was in Ohio. I wish came out to help him
Speaker F: with the salty and how to do it.
Speaker B: Oh, uh, Sean will definitely show you how to salt, that's for sure. Oh yeah. But uh, but thank you to True Weather for that. That's awesome that Mark was listening. And uh, and yeah, he just texted me this morning and said uh, you know, if he's interested we'd offer him a full uh, a full free subscription there for a while. And I uh, think you definitely take advantage of that. So reach out to them.
Speaker E: I was actually going to reach out to him.
Speaker C: Hopefully tomorrow you'll like it too.
Speaker B: Yeah, there you go. They got a good system. They got, you know, pretty cool up weather maps. You can, you can get everything you need to, to do what you got to do on there.
Speaker F: But uh, that's really cool, Mark and it is probably has a lifetime subscriber now.
Speaker C: So that's cool.
Speaker B: The doctor, he is. Uh, yep. No, they're. They, they do a very, they do very good work. They definitely do. Um, so what else you got there? You wanted to know about site walkthroughs?
Speaker E: Yeah, about say my question on the site walkthroughs is what are some stuff that you're ah, pointing out and looking for and what is something or what are the things that make you change on your quote to maybe adjust prices if there's something you noticed.
Speaker B: Now you're saying you, you've been saying that getting people to do a site walk through with you is a problem, right? Okay. That's the first thing. If they're not serious enough to walk their site with you, um, I, for me, I, I will never entertain anything that they're not willing to walk their sight. Anybody, uh, you guys, uh, I mean, anybody disagree? Anybody doing that, Billy, you, you not tell them to off if they're not gonna walk the site with you.
Speaker C: If you don't have the decency. I always felt that if you don't have the decency to meet with me for five minutes and kind of look and see what's going on, let's look at your drainage or whatever, blah, blah, blah, then you're just tire kicking. You just want prices being emailed and say okay, and it's bottom line numbers. You know, if somebody takes the time where I can give you a coffee mug or something and say, hey, thanks for. Even if we're not the right fit, at least you have the, you know, the decency to call out three bidders or whatever and take the time and you care about the property. If you're a maintenance guy, I'm just get three fucking bids. You, you cheapest. Have fun. I don't want work like that because that's, that doesn't seem like it's going to go. Go very far.
Speaker B: Yep, I agree.
Speaker C: I mean, you want to look at the car before you buy it, right? Don't you think that you'd want to meet the person that, you know you're gonna spend a lot of money with plowing your snow and especially with all the risks involved.
Speaker B: Yeah, well, like you're there to help keep their, their building safe, their, Their customers, their, their workers safe. If they're not serious enough to even walk you through it and show you what you need to know, or at least you know, that you can have a meeting with them, then. They're not, uh, they're not for me, you know, it's. They got to help you.
Speaker E: How does it work?
Speaker F: I'm out here for you.
Speaker B: You don't know what it's like to be me out here for you. It is an up at dawn pride swallowing siege that I will never fully tell you about.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Help me. That's Billy. That's a recording of Billy on one of the sites. I could see you saying that Too. It's up at dawn. Pride swallowing Siege.
Speaker F: I'm surprised we didn't get the weatherman, uh, little sound bite when we did the true weather thing.
Speaker B: I don't have it loaded up. I don't have it loaded up on this computer. Like I said, this is computer number three. I had to go through three to get one. Uh, but, uh, yeah, the. They gotta agree to that. I mean, you're a young guy starting out. I know you want the work, but there's. There could be a lot of things through your inexperience that, you know, they could help you with. Some of them, some guys might not have a clue, but other guys, you know, might be able to help you, um, by doing a walk through. I, I would kind of make, I don't know, it's so tough for a younger guy that, you know, he's hungry for sights. Go ahead, Todd.
Speaker F: Yeah. So one thing that you're going to learn in this business, Drake, and I guarantee you, every single single guy watching or, uh, in this screen right now will tell you all that is, is time to build a relationship with the customer. Because down the road, wherever that guy goes, if he's comfortable or girl goes, if they're comfortable in the relationship with you, they're going to bring you to your next property. Right. Or, you know, they're going to report back to their regional manager and say, you know, hey, this, this whole brook, they're. They're great people. Like, uh, we need to get them
Speaker E: across the board at a couple different properties.
Speaker F: So it's not just a sight walk, it's. It's a job interview. Yes. But it's also relationship building time that you can develop that relationship. So that, that's a huge, huge opportunity.
Speaker G: Said it better.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker B: And just make sure your work backs it up, because I don't care how good your walk through and your relationship was, if your work is, you're not getting recommended.
Speaker F: Yeah.
Speaker B: You got to show up and do what you say you were going to do and do it on time.
Speaker F: I agree.
Speaker B: Very important.
Speaker F: Let me touch one other thing that, uh, talked about after episode one, Drake. Let's talk. Let's go back and watch everybody's faces here on the national discussion that you and I had. Because, uh, are we allowed to call the whole situation out, Drake, or what
Speaker A: do you want to do?
Speaker B: Oh, that sound bite work. That one worked.
Speaker F: So, Drake, Drake, bring everybody up to speed, because it's not only these guys, it's everybody listening. So fire away, big boy.
Speaker E: So, yeah, said we Had a national company reach out for a couple a chain of banks in our area for even they were even offering us. They offered us every bank in, you know, in the state. Just on a sheet is one of those you fill out what you want done for whatever price. So about same. I. I already knew that's listening to the podcast. That's pretty much a no go. Throw that away unless it's just something that you really want. It's right on your route. But even talking my parents, my parents have a lot of say in my, in the company since my dad's own has everything's under my dad's name. So he has final say.
Speaker G: Sure.
Speaker E: They were really wanting to move forward with that quote just because it was another contract and it's possibly more money and what.
Speaker B: Okay, so first of all, these banks are pretty much. They're kind of standard. Um, more or less don't without telling us the company. Uh, what was the, what was the offer per location?
Speaker E: It was name your price.
Speaker B: There was name your price.
Speaker E: Yes. It was one of those they just sent us.
Speaker B: So this is only my opinion. In my experience, um, it's a double edged sword because if they're desperate in the area, they might agree to whatever you throw out there within reason. But then you got to read that contract forward, backward with your attorney, uh, at $250 an hour to make sure there's no loopholes that they don't have to pay you. Those contracts. Yeah, those contracts are written for them to have like six or seven outs that if you don't accomplish one of those seven little hidden things in the fine print, they don't have to pay you.
Speaker C: One photo, one corner of uh, you know, a kernel of salt that was the size of uh, uh, a speck of sand. You didn't get a good video of it. That's you're.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker C: For the whole night.
Speaker B: And then I don't have to pay.
Speaker F: The one thing I tried to explain to Drake is that if his dad is the one who's listed on this company, then dad is going to take on the liability at the end of the day because, you know, it's his name that holds the company.
Speaker G: Yeah.
Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker F: Regardless if Drake's doing the work or not. And look, we've all been there. When I was younger, there was all kinds of, you know, you did different stuff with insurance back in the day. You can't do that anymore. No, uh, my point is. I know, Billy. I hear you, big boy. But my point is like. Yeah, it might be More money, like a flash in the pan. But something goes wrong, old dad's going to be sitting there sweating bullets. And I tried to explain to him, you know, to sit down and talk to mom and dad, and I mean, I'd be happy to explain that to his parents as well, but, I mean, you know, everybody on here knows the average slip and fall right now is probably about 3 million bucks a slip. So, you know, and then they'll negotiate it down to, like Billy said, 80 grand, 50 grand. And then they're going to cancel your insurance.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker F: Like, then what are you gonna do? Because when you try to go to another carrier, they're gonna say, well, wait a minute, you got.
Speaker B: You got dropped, dude. Nope.
Speaker F: So I'm telling you, uh, and Mikey, you deal with this a lot more than I do, because I don't do any of the. The stuff that you guys do. Really. But, I mean, insurance and Billy, you do, too. The insurance is getting harder and harder on that side.
Speaker B: Oh, forget it. It's virtually impossible. Yeah, you're begging them to, uh, bend you over and hammer you in the ass or.
Speaker F: Or just get your pliers right. Tool belt back on and you're back at trade school.
Speaker B: Well, yeah, that. I mean, again, we're back to electrician. I think we're, uh, we're all in agreement. That's probably the way to go for a young kid, man. Make your millions. You will make far more money with a lot less headache. Um, Yep. You burn a house down as an electrician, there's another insurance company that'll insure you. I guarantee it. Snow is not that. You get. You get slipping falls, you're getting dropped, and then nobody else is picking you up.
Speaker F: You can still use the True Weather app, even if you're an electrician.
Speaker B: There you go. Yeah, today's not a good day that. To wire things outside. Um, but no, listen, man, you. That's a decision you got to make for yourself. What I would tell you is do your homework. Don't just listen to us. Um, although I think we're being pretty fair, um, that that's how. That's how it rolls with that. With those type companies. Um, if you go on. Go on any of the forums, go on any of the Snowplow. The Snowplow Mafia, uh, Minneapolis Snow Pros 2.0. Uh, you can go on any of those group chats on Facebook, join up and just in the search bar, type in Nationals. See the discussions that come up. For every hundred comments, you'll get 95 guys saying they owe me money. They screwed me out of this, they screwed me out of that. They did this. And then you'll. Out of every hundred comments, you have 95 saying they screwed me. And then you'll have two or three guys saying, I've never had a problem in 25 years. I have a sinking feeling those are bots or their plants. They're, you know, they're guys with fake accounts that are just trying to, uh, you know, sway the, uh. The thing. I've never met anybody that I know and I've met in the flesh that says that the Nationals are great to work for. They pay me what I need to make, and they pay me on time. And remember, even if you do everything right, and they are going to pay, you read that contract. Because, say you take a bigger. Not the banks. The banks aren't going to kill you. Um, but say you take a large site for a national, you have to read that contract backward and forward to make sure that you're on the right payment schedule. Because it might say net 60, uh, or net 45, whatever. And that may work for you. A lot of times. The fine print is it's net 60 from when they get paid. That could be four months after the winter. There are guys just getting paid now in August for work done last winter, if they're getting paid. So you gotta. You gotta really read that. Because if you take on a big site, you got four or five loaders, trucks, all that. And I'm not even speaking to you right now. I'm speaking to everybody out there. You take on a site that you had considerable investment in, and you're expecting payment. If you can't find, float whatever you're, uh, you're laying out to do that site for the winter. If you're not prepared and can't handle floating that expenditure for six to eight months without going under, then don't take the contract because you can't count on that money coming through because you're at their mercy to pay you. Anybody disagree with that?
Speaker F: Nope.
Speaker B: Feel free. I. I love. I want. I want somebody. I mean, I hate.
Speaker C: Hate it.
Speaker B: Hate being right all the time. But it's easy. Nationals one's got to do it, right?
Speaker F: Somebody else is opening, uh, a can of whoop ass on the Nationals here soon. I saw the.
Speaker B: What. What happened?
Speaker F: Somebody else is opening a can of whoop ass on the Nationals. I saw here recently.
Speaker D: Okay.
Speaker B: I don't. I didn't see that.
Speaker E: Josh.
Speaker D: Josh's.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Speaker D: Oh.
Speaker B: All right. Good for them.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Beat Them up. Beat him up. Listen, man, if you are, if you're getting paid, if you're paying people and getting paid properly, then, and you're paying on time, good for you. Let's like that. That's the dream. Pay guys what they're worth, all right? And pay them on time. If you can do that, great. But the, a lot of these companies you're dealing with, Drake, uh, that, that we're talking about, that is not the case. Like I said, the, we talked about it last episode, you said there's a company that's failing on a couple of those bigger lots. It's probably because they ain't getting paid enough to do it properly. That's the problem.
Speaker E: And what I've heard is they don't have enough, uh, people to do it
Speaker B: well, because they probably can't pay the subcontractors with what they're making. Like, I mean, I don't know. Those you get, you get a Jimmy, uh, John's. Get a Jimmy John's. Get another half acre site, maybe a third and I guarantee you are making more profit with a quarter of the time spent and a 18th of expenditure as one Walmart through a national. So if, if you're asking the panel here, uh, I would tell you to stay clear and I don't think anybody is disagreeing, but that's up to you. You know, that's. Do your homework.
Speaker E: I do have an answer on that today. They decided to go with no on that.
Speaker B: Okay, good boy.
Speaker D: Good.
Speaker B: That's probably the best no you'll ever hear. There you go. That's good man.
Speaker G: See, you learned from my mistake.
Speaker B: Um, the only other thing I wanted to add for the site walkthrough that I forgot about, so. Site walkthrough, you're paying attention to the complexity of the site. Not all one acre sites are created equal. You can have a one acre site that's wide open, easy to plow. Two stacking sites, one on each side. Great, that's easy. That will be your cheapest price. That or I shouldn't say cheapest price. That'll be the one you can afford to, to go little. Um, then you got islands, a couple islands, four islands in an acre. Okay, that's a little more difficult now. You have to do some cutting in and stuff around the islands. Fine. That's a little more expensive because it's going to take you more time, you know, every time you plow it, it's going to take you a little more time throughout the winter times. Three years on that contract. So you have to bid that one a little more and then you have the ones that have 15 islands on a one acre lot and it takes you three times as long as if it was wide open. So the walk through is where you start really mapping out and paying attention to that stuff. Because not all one acre sites or not all parking lots are created equal in time or effort.
Speaker E: I guess I also have another question if I give you an example of a property that I'm bidding on that I did for a uh, subcontractor last year, which, that one, it was just. He doesn't uh, he's not doing that property anymore. But so this property, they make us piles. They push all the parking lot snow on the ones, the main parking lot into one pile on island and then that all sits there. But then where it's sitting right next to a. The parking lot's connected to the property next door. But there's like a 6 inch drop that sloped and it just all puddles there. How would you guys, I guess change your quote or is there are there
Speaker B: drains in the parking lot?
Speaker E: Yeah, I mean it drains, uh, but half the time it's covered in. You can't get to the drain from the water for the water to get to it.
Speaker B: I mean anytime you're doing a walk through and they're talking about stack sites, you're trying to stack it slightly uphill from a drain so that as it does melt it's melting into the drain and it's not creating a giant pool of water that's going to refreeze every night that you're going to have to resalt. Um, but doesn't sound like that's an option here. There's no drains in the parking lot
Speaker E: that would be on the other the it sloped down to where the pile sits. So if you pile it on the other side, it's going to start blocking the main entrance to get in from the drive thru and all the exit of the drive thru and getting to the exit of the whole parking lot.
Speaker B: Okay, what was your question again then?
Speaker E: I guess how would you, I guess how would you tackle that onto a quote? Maybe adjust your quote or even because you're going to have multiple callbacks on salt for the snow melting and refreezing or you know how if you would happen to get that contract, what are you doing to make sure that problem's solved?
Speaker B: Take. That sounds like a mic question. That definitely sounds like a mic question.
Speaker C: Yeah, it sounds like the mic.
Speaker G: I, I deal with that Quite a bit. And I, uh, I just charge them for it. There's no way around it if the snow has to go here. And there's no good way to get it to melt with that drain or the drains constantly covered because it's in that snow storage area. Sorry, you're getting charged every time. I got to come out there and treat it. And as the melting occurs, you know, day by day from the sunlight, from a few days of warm weather, you go up to them, say, hey, let me, let me bring a machine in here for an hour or two. Let me expose this drain a little bit. Let me get this cleared for you. And, uh, I just lost my train of thought.
Speaker B: Don't read the chat board. Don't read the chat. That's.
Speaker D: That's.
Speaker B: You got distracted. You were on a roll.
Speaker G: I was on a roll.
Speaker B: Refocus.
Speaker G: Yeah, so tell them like an hour or two of the machine on site, you know, just to expose that drain a little bit better. Actually, what I get good traction with is in the fall time I take, when I take these clients outside, I go and inspect these drains with them because usually they don't clean them that often. So I say, hey, I get a great, you know, a guy with a vac truck. I got a guy with a clamshell truck. Let me come in here and clear these for you real quick. That way we know that whatever snow we get, that drain can, that can handle it. There's no leaf material in there built up that'll slow it down. The drains have all been removed. The water can get to them. And if there's any collapsed, uh, basins or bin block, you know, you can get it fixed before the winter and before the asphalt plants shut down. But you just got to make them understand you're getting charged for because this is going to be a lake that I got to deal with and I own all the liability. You don't.
Speaker B: Amen.
Speaker F: Good.
Speaker B: I think that about nailed that. Um, want to hit some commercials real quick? Yeah, let's hit some commercial. We'll be back in 45 seconds.
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Speaker E: Um, I guess how are, what's, how are you guys going about measuring properties and getting the size of them? Yes.
Speaker B: There's a lot of tools for that out there. You, uh, can do it. You can do it. As simple as. What the hell's the turf company that, uh, has the gps? Um.
Speaker G: Go ison.
Speaker B: No, I'll think of it in a second. Wait, tell them what you use, Mike. What do you use? Site photos.
Speaker G: Uh, we do have site photos. We don't use those for the maps anymore. We use Property intel because it's a part of our Aspire platform. Very similar, Very similar.
Speaker B: Gotcha. Let me see.
Speaker E: Because I've always, I've just used Google Maps for everything.
Speaker G: Yeah, you'll, you'll never go back when you can just send any of these sites an address and in less than 24 hours, they kick it back to you with everything mapped out.
Speaker B: Man, I'm totally brain farting. I use it all the time for green stuff on the, uh. I can't believe I'm totally, uh. Sod Solutions. There we go. Sod Solutions area calculator. If you Google that, you get like 10 free searches. You pump, pump in the address there and, uh, you can actually draw the entire property. And it's, it's not, you know, you're doing it from a satellite. It's not, you know, exact. But I found that on, you know, 50, 000 square feet. It's accurate to within like 1200 square feet.
Speaker G: So when you say drawing, Steve, you're talking about drawing the boundary line.
Speaker B: Literally, you're drawing the inner and outer boundary and whatever you want to, whatever you want to map there. It spits out the, the distance. It splits out the square footage. Uh, it spits out like five different measurements, uh, you know, side to side, end to end. Uh, yeah, it's pretty handy. We use it a lot for, uh, for the sod jobs, uh, just to get a rough estimate of what we're going to need, turf wise. Um, but yeah, that, I mean, that's a real easy way. Type in the address and, you know, if you don't have any software like Aspire or anything like that. Um, I think even Yardbook now has, has that option that you can do that on there. And that's a real simple. I think it might still be free for the basic package of that. Um, you know, you can definitely do something like that. Yeah. Sod solutions, aerial calculator, what else? Or get a measuring wheel and walk it off. That don't, uh, that never hurt you.
Speaker E: Never hurts to get my steps in?
Speaker B: No. Or you could get a laser, you know, get the, uh, get like a hilty laser or something that'll uh, that'll help you do it. But what else? Anything else. We cover everything.
Speaker E: I mean, those are the only questions I had written down, wrote down my notebook. Mikey, do you have anything to cover to add on from last week?
Speaker G: No, I do want to retouch on one though. So you talk about sight walks, right. And getting the client out there with you for, for the walk. You will find that there will be times that it's not possible. They probably live in a different state. There are a few cities away or they're on the other end of the, uh, the country. It's uh, it's imperative that you try and figure out who their engineer is they send to that site because they definitely contract somebody to maintain that building in their absence. That is the guy that you want to walk around with first. Even though he has no decision making, like, say, in the process of whether they hire you or not, he can at least vouch for the things that you're going to be putting into that bid. That raises the price up, uh, from whatever the base contract was calling for. And you can be descriptive in your email to them with the proposal. You can take photos, you know, you can explain yourself as much as you want, but you have somebody in your corner to back it up. It'll help push it to the finish line quicker so you can get the correct amount of money you need for that contract and they'll know that you're not bullshitting them.
Speaker B: Mikey does very large stuff, uh, campuses, stuff like that. Jimmy John's. You're probably looking at the regional manager as the, uh, the head.
Speaker C: Yep, he's right. Uh, I just signed a, uh, VA hospital and uh, actually today we, we do green for them. Um, the management company that manages the building is down in Alabama. She will openly admit I have no clue about snow. It's 104. I don't really care.
Speaker E: Yep.
Speaker C: But what gets conveyed back is the guy, boots on the ground guy, kind, um, of walk through. Hey, this is A very sensitive site. This is high profile areas. This is why we're doing doubling the service. This is why it's so expensive. So when she asked me a question, I already talked to Tim. Tim said that you said this and this and this and this. We're good, you know.
Speaker B: Yep. And then send her your safety award.
Speaker D: Boom.
Speaker C: Absolutely.
Speaker B: Got it.
Speaker C: So, you know, another thing too. We use site photos because it's actually pretty easy and it's actually pretty easy to make pretty interactive maps.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker C: So if I feel like if it's a client that I'm really want to earn that business, I'll send them the interactive map of, uh, you know, Angelo, make a map here. Snow piles, drainage. It's really kind of nice. It sucks when we don't get the job because they'll probably take that and give it to somebody else. But they also see it like, wow, you took the time to do this. And then you have a plan, which we've talked about many, many times. You have a plan and of how you're going to do the snow where the high profile areas are fire hydrants and dumpsters and handicap and all that good shit. Um, so that's another good selling point when you get to the walkthrough or even print one out saying, hey, this is, this is what I got going on here for you.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker B: And if you want to see how
Speaker C: people are really doing that.
Speaker B: Yeah. And if you want to, if you want to see how to do what Billy's talking about with site photos, making a map, uh, you can head on over the snow jobs. Uh, what is it? Snow Jobs Podcast or Snow Jobs Nation? YouTube. Um, and it's on there. Mike actually did a whole webinar, uh,
Speaker G: teaching one that we did like year one.
Speaker B: Yeah. Teaching guys how to. Teaching guys how to make maps off of, uh, site photos. So it's still up there.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker C: Really easy.
Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's not hard. It's.
Speaker A: It's pretty cool.
Speaker B: And I think most of site photos are still like, almost free.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker G: Mike's a good dude.
Speaker B: Yep. What else? Drake? Got anything else for us?
Speaker E: I can't think of anything right off the top of my head.
Speaker B: Any closing thoughts for him? Billy?
Speaker C: We've been communicating. I got to send some stuff to these guys I was lacking today. Had, um, some irrigation issues come up and. Never heard of those at 100 degrees here. Um, keep the, Keep the smile. I mean, eventually you get 20 years. There's not a lot of smiling left. It's more like anger and grass Knuckles. And you know, you'll have balls of steel by the time, you know. Now look at Jeremy's even playing with them on air.
Speaker B: We already told them, go back to electrical school. Go, go to electrician school. Save yourself the headache.
Speaker C: It's a thick skin business, bro. That's all it is.
Speaker B: It's. Yeah, big boy pants. Absolutely.
Speaker E: That's what I heard from you, Billy, today.
Speaker D: 10, 4.
Speaker B: Anybody else got anything for him? Todd, anything to add?
Speaker D: You're muted. You're muted, Todd. I am.
Speaker F: Look at that. I think the, uh, overwhelming theme tonight is protect yourself from liability. And you know, that's got to be the first thing you think of with every opportunity that you get. Like even that 6 inch drop off that you're talking about is, you know, how, how do I protect myself liability wise? So, you know, the money, the money's not that great if you, if you gotta hold it for a lawsuit, right? So, you know, I think that's paramount on anything that any of these guys do, including myself.
Speaker B: So, uh, Drake, if I can offer you one piece of advice in closing here. Don't be tempted to fall, fall into the same pitfall that claims so many young, not just snow guys, young guys in any, any business, any field. They, they're hungry, they're energetic. They, they, they have a plan and they take everything that comes their way, whether it's under. So whether it's good for them or not. All right, uh, whether it's, it makes any. Some of the time it doesn't even make any business sense for them to do it. They're taking a, they're taking snow properties 45 minutes away from each other, you know, just to make a buck and say they're growing. Don't do that. Stay tight, stick to your guns. Target target spots in your area very close to other spots you already have. Um, build slowly. Don't, don't feel like you gotta blow up overnight. You know, my rule when, when I started, when I started all hands for myself and, and wasn't working for anybody else anymore, when I started my own business, my rule was I was only taking on, uh, one property a year, possibly a second, but only what I knew I could get done. On my worst day with everything breaking down, I had to be able to guarantee to myself that I could do that. Because if you fail, you're done. You know, you, you have one, have a plan B with one truck. Because if that truck goes down mid storm on a 10 inch snowstorm, that's the biggest Finlay Ohio's Ever seen in the, in the last five years. If you go down in that storm and your properties can't get serviced, uh, you're, you're basically go back to electric electrician school because your, your rep is shot at that point. Seriously, like, you build a thousand bridges. You know that old saying, uh, it only takes 1, 1 storm to ruin a reputation. And people talk about it. You know, I know, I know exactly the four companies around me that failed last winter when we had the big 23 inch storm. You know, I, uh, everybody knows, everybody in the business and everybody in the property management business knows as well. So you get one shot at this. So don't bite off more than you could chew. Grow methodically, slowly. Have a set of, it doesn't hurt to have a set of a list of things that each potential site, you want it to have, you know, close to your core area, the right price point, the right type of site that you're comfortable doing little liability as possible. You know, I'm not, I, I don't chase like, uh, I don't know what's a good example. I, I will never do a lawyer's office. I do doctors. I don't do lawyers. You know, I just don't, I, I, I don't feel like, uh, that's a, ah, people, uh, are already going, going in there for a reason. Why, uh, why be the guy plowing it? But it's just, you know, make, make a list and stick to it. Don't just take anything that comes your way. Don't take the nationals are throwing at you. They're throwing it at you for a reason. You're getting a list and they'll give you every bank in the state, probably because they can't get anybody else to take it that knows what they're looking at. So that, that's what they do year, uh, after year. They try and get guys that don't know that they shouldn't be touching them.
Speaker C: So as you grow too, you know, year after year, uh, you'll start to get a feeling about things like. Yeah, you know, that doesn't sound too good. Like, I keep getting this thing in the mail that it says I won $2 million. Like getting real close here, but just something tells me it's not real, you know?
Speaker B: Yeah, the man with the big check didn't show up yet.
Speaker C: Yeah, Ed McMahon's not coming.
Speaker D: Nope.
Speaker B: Then nobody knows that reference. I was going to use it, Bill, but I'm like, man, we're going to really date ourselves. Only Todd will know that,
Speaker E: uh.
Speaker B: Oh, all right. Anything else? We'll wrap it.
Speaker E: I got another question. Okay, let's go so on. I. So I still use subcontractors and all that. How are you guys going about paying them or even if. What. And how would you go about it if you were the one being the subcontractor, if you're doing a subcontractor?
Speaker B: I don't have subs, Billy. You got subs at all? No.
Speaker G: Make sure that payment terms line up, uh, with theirs. If you're, if they're net 30, you're net 30. And if your client's net 30, you know you're going to end up floating them one way or the other because your client inevitably is going to pay you on day 31 or day 35.
Speaker B: But what are you doing, Mike? W9.
Speaker G: W9.
Speaker E: Yep, that's it.
Speaker G: But yeah, I just had that conversation with them. Hey, the smaller stuff, obviously I can pay pretty quick. The bigger storms, like your 12 inch, plus the ones that don't come very often, like, I can probably float you, but until I get paid, I may not be able to get you the whole thing or just save as much as you can and pay them the whole thing and wait for the client to, uh, to get the, uh, check to you. But here's the other, here's the flip side of that that we're still dealing with on my end. If they don't pay on time consistently, you can look back and see how much like revenue, I guess in the off season you do with them. So like you and I doing landscape, like, you know, do we do enhancement work with them? How many jobs do we sell outside their base contract? Do they do, you know, like a 50 plus percent enhancement to maintenance ratio? Okay, all right. I can deal with being 15 days late, you know, to a certain degree. When you start getting 60, 90, more than 90, and they're consistently late by design, they're better served by somebody else who can deal with that. It's not for guys like you that are trying to grow your business, build your reputation and start out, uh, like on the right foot. You're going to find those clients and you're not going to want to take them back. And that's totally fine. Like, don't beat yourself up over walking away from people like that. Because if you can't pay, your sub who went in there, killed themselves and did that work because they can't pay you on time and you're floating that sub just to make sure that they, their business and their Costs are covered. It's not a symbiotic relationship, and you got to walk away from it.
Speaker B: Amen.
Speaker F: So I'm. I'm not going to mention any names, but you guys know a lot of the profiles that I do in. In the country.
Speaker G: Yeah.
Speaker F: And there's one right now that I literally. Billy's probably going to laugh because we talked about it earlier, but there's one that has not paid me since January, and I literally just put them on.
Speaker C: We are.
Speaker F: This turn, this is terminated. We are no longer interested in doing business with you. And if I told you who it was, you'd probably, you know, fall out of your chair. So. And we're not talking small dollar, so, you know, don't ever be afraid to terminate the customer, because they're not afraid to terminate you. And there's plenty. There's plenty more out there. Walk the deal and go find another. And, um, somebody else will follow them, I'm telling you, and somebody will take their spot.
Speaker B: 100.
Speaker F: If you're delivering the service that you should be delivering.
Speaker G: Yep.
Speaker F: So, but one other thing. When Steve said if you fail, your reputation, that's all you have in this business is your reputation. And word gets out, I promise you, no matter. No matter who you are, they're gonna find out about it.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Speaker F: You know, but, uh, look, I just
Speaker B: want to say, probably from this show.
Speaker F: Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, kudos to you and. And, you know, Jeremy, uh, for. For this show and, you know, getting the reach that it has. But the other thing that I just want to say real quick, because I kind of initiated this and I think, you know, Steve and Jeremy, obviously. Mikey, thanks for jumping on tonight and Billy.
Speaker C: But I, uh, think.
Speaker F: I think this kid has a lot of spunk, a lot of grit, and I think he's eager to learn, which is kind of cool for me, being the old dog, I guess, in this. In this room, which thankfully, I don't say a lot in the rooms that I hang out in. So, um. But, you know, thank you guys for jumping on and helping this kid, because I think he, uh. Although he probably should have been an electrician, he's. He's passionate about what he's doing. So.
Speaker G: Hey, man, listen, I know plenty of electricians at plus Know, so nobody gets out.
Speaker F: I mean, exactly.
Speaker C: I think it was a good idea because I had a lot of people reach out to me in the last 10 days that, uh, especially in Michigan, like, this is great. Again, we talked about it before. I wish I had it. Uh, I Actually met a lot of cool people already in the last, you know, 10 to 14 days just because of the show. They listened to us and, uh, Ben Johnson being one of them from Forge and Randy Dotson and, you know, I met these people, and they're just. They're good people. They have questions, and. And this kind of brings everything to light. So this was. I think these last two episodes were really great.
Speaker B: So absolutely everybody gets better. Everybody makes more money. Bottom line.
Speaker C: Hallelujah.
Speaker B: Educate the people that are coming up that are starting out. They need to charge accordingly. All right, all right. Jay, you got anything else?
Speaker D: Nope.
Speaker B: Okay. We did okay. Drake, you got anything else for us before we let you go?
Speaker E: No, I just greatly appreciate you guys having me on and, you know, show me the ropes and tell me to be electrician.
Speaker B: I'm dead serious about that, dude. Don't let me down. I'm gonna need an electrician sometime, so go back to school. You can always plow snow, but that's a nice fallback. Definitely is.
Speaker E: Cut the grind the green side out and just go full.
Speaker B: Yeah, fuck the lawns, dude. Yeah, go learn how to be an electrician or H vac, whatever, Plumber. That's what you do during the day. Run your own damn business. And you can plow snow all you want as a hobby. It's a lot easier to say no to the wrong contract, trust me, when you have another paycheck coming. All right, all right, we'll wrap it there. Anything, Jay, you good? Okay. All right, so we'll cut it there. Thanks, Drake. Appreciate it, man. Glad we could help you out. And, uh, we'll cut 187 episode. 187 is in the books.
Speaker D: All right.
Speaker B: As we said, everybody, hope you had a great Labor Day weekend with your families. Hope you got to relax and celebrate some. And, uh, to these guys, thanks for giving up their time and expertise. As always, Billy. Never, Never a dull moment. Mike is awesome as always. Todd is a legend. Me and Jeremy or me and Jeremy. And, uh, you know, we're glad we could help you out, Drake. And, uh, if anybody else has these, uh, these kind of issues, let us know. You know, this is, uh. This is why we're doing this.
Speaker D: All right?
Speaker B: So everybody have a great week. We will talk to you next week. Keep pushing. Still the fire.
S4-181: Listener Questions about PM Companies and Contracts...76 / 100S4-178: Happy 4th of July! Steve and Jeremy Interview each other!42 / 100S4-176: First Due Property Maintenance, Kingston NY59 / 100"Dustings" 2-30: Product Launch Episode...Storm Phantom is here!68 / 100Product Chat....Top Dog Services Trys Top Gun Backblades, Game Changer!64 / 100