The Snowjobs Podcast · 2026-07-27 · 59 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
56 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
This listener Q&A episode tackles two critical operational decisions for snow contractors: working with national brokers and acquiring equipment. The hosts and guests strongly caution against broker contracts, emphasizing hidden costs beyond the initial bid price - including mandatory reporting, photo documentation, and insurance requirements that can consume 3-4 hours per storm. Key concerns include non-compete clauses that prevent contractor-to-client relationships if the broker loses the account, insurance gaps that many brokers don't properly vet, and the reality that brokers typically pay less than what they bid to clients. For equipment decisions, the discussion centers on whether to purchase, lease, or rent machines and whether to choose skid steers or compact loaders. The team stresses understanding contract terms first (one-year vs. three-year), ensuring that contracts generate enough revenue to pay off equipment within 12 months, and building equity rather than perpetually leasing. The episode provides practical vetting frameworks for both broker relationships and capital equipment decisions.
Beyond the base price, brokers typically require 3-4 hours of reporting, photographing, and documentation per storm. Non-compete and non-solicit clauses often prevent you from pursuing that client directly if the broker loses the account within 1-2 years, and insurance requirements are frequently unverified, creating coverage gaps.
It depends on contract term: if you have one-year contracts, renting is safer; if you have three-year contracts, purchasing or lease-to-own arrangements make sense because the contract revenue should cover the machine cost over 12 months. Build equity whenever possible rather than perpetually leasing.
No, the hosts have never heard of a broker paying more than their initial bid price, and they emphasize brokers rarely bid contracts for more than they can pay contractors - if someone got exactly what they asked, they likely didn't ask for enough.
Insurance companies typically don't cover broker-managed work, and most brokers don't properly verify that contractors actually have coverage; you must confirm directly with your carrier that they'll cover broker operations before signing any contract.
Always evaluate the contract terms, pricing structure, and attachment specifications first; determine whether the contract revenue over its term (typically 3 years) will fully pay off the machine and attachments for 12 months of operation, then decide what equipment makes sense.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains practical operational advice on broker contracts, equipment leasing vs. buying, hidden costs in pricing, and contract negotiations. However, much of this content is rehashed from previous episodes ('we've said it numerous times'), and the hosts frequently acknowledge their own biases and limited expertise ('I don't know if we're the best guys to answer that question'). The discussion meanders with personal anecdotes and off-topic banter that dilutes insight density.
if it's got a counter offer button, don't ever accept the first price
the hidden cost, if you are writing up a new contract or something for, for a site that's not part of your cookie cutter contract that you use, if you're adding stuff to take on a new site that you've never done before and you need to, to go to your lawyer
The core frameworks - floors and ceilings in pricing, broker contract red flags, equipment buying vs. leasing decisions - are established industry wisdom that the hosts have discussed before. The originality comes mainly from specific operational examples (e.g., snow stake replacement rates, mobilization costs) rather than novel thinking. Most advice is practical but conventional for the snow removal industry.
you and your customer should both come out of the end of the season feeling like you both won
can you find other work for it?
Mike Santa Lucito (Outdoor Pride) and Robert Thing (Arty Outdoor) are experienced practitioners in the snow removal business with demonstrable track records managing multiple sites and contracts. They contribute practical insights from real operations. However, they are not household names in B2B, and their involvement is primarily responsive (answering listener questions) rather than driving the conversation with original expertise.
Mike Santa Lucito of Outdoor Pride
Robert Thing of Arty Outdoor up in Maine
The episode includes some concrete details: snow stake loss rates (30-35%), equipment speeds (skids 12 mph, compact loaders 21-23 mph), specific contract issues (non-compete clauses, insurance requirements), and real examples from the hosts' operations (mobilization costs 'a couple grand'). However, much discussion remains vague or anecdotal ('some guys do this,' 'we've heard stories'), and few hard numbers or named case examples are provided beyond the hosts' own operations.
we have about, I think we have like a 30% between 30 and 35 that we, we throw out or lose, um, by the end of the year
I think the SV 280s, I think, are 12. I think they're 12 miles an hour
The hosts ask reasonable follow-up questions ('what's the contract term?' 'can you use it year round?'), but the conversation frequently devolves into tangents about geography, personal stories, and casual banter unrelated to the listener questions. The moderator does not consistently push back on vague claims or probe deeper into contradictions. Many segments feel more like casual shop talk than incisive interviewing.
I mean, good for him. You know, he's. I mean, I don't know. Maybe there. Maybe the brokers have all the sites in his town. Who knows?
I don't know if we're the best guys to answer that question. Um, we just don't. We don't do enough. We don't do any business with them, so we don't know enough of the ins and outs
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
The guys welcome Mike Santolucito of ODP, and Robert Thyng of RD Outdoor to the show to help answer some listener questions on Property Management companies, National Brokers, and contract stuff.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: This no Jobs podcast episode is brought to you by Top Gun Back Blades.
Speaker B: Are you ready for the best damn light of your life? Give me a hell, give me a gale Stand up right now and give me a hell, give me a G. Stand up right now, get ready to go. She ain't moving slow she's taking control Pushing the pedal through the floor.
Speaker C: I'm.
Speaker B: All right.
Speaker D: Let's get it.
Speaker B: Snow Jobs nation. Here we go. We are back again bringing you episode 181 of the Snow Jobs podcast main show powered by Top Gun Back Blades. The best show in snow. As always, I'm Steve. I'm talking to the juice box guy, you know, who's with me every week. I'm one of the baddest of all time, one of the best singers and one of the best looking you've ever seen. Hold my drink. Rick James is in the house. Jeremy, how are you, buddy? What's going on?
Speaker D: Oh, doing really well, Steve. How about you, buddy?
Speaker B: Not too bad, bud, not too bad. Good week? Good week went fast. We're, uh, we're traveling this week.
Speaker D: Yep. We're on the road. On the road. On the road show on the road.
Speaker B: That's it. Heading to storm day.
Speaker D: Storm day.
Speaker B: That's gonna have a new meaning. It, uh, it looks like we're gonna get some storms while we're out there. Did you look at the weather?
Speaker D: No.
Speaker B: Summer, it looks like Monday, Tuesday.
Speaker D: It's nothing. It's. It's always a. Whenever it's hot here, there's always a chance for a tornado watch or some. Anytime it gets hot here in the summer, they send the same out every, every day. So.
Speaker B: Yep. How's the Canadian smoke?
Speaker D: It's, uh, early in the week. Was there and then it's kind of cleared up pretty good now, so maybe a little haze, but it's, it's doing, it's doing fine.
Speaker B: So it has finally cleared here.
Speaker D: Nothing like it was last week, I guess.
Speaker B: No, no, it's finally cleared up here a little bit and uh, we haven't had it in two or three days now. So that's a good thing.
Speaker D: Maybe let's have the right. Right wins or something up there. So.
Speaker B: Yeah, it couldn't have been that they actually got their under control.
Speaker D: Nah, uh, my fire line probably helped put some fire lines down.
Speaker B: There you go, there you go. You get everything sprayed up?
Speaker D: Oh, we've been busy spraying. Yeah.
Speaker B: Serious product.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker D: Yeah, we sprayed five rail cars in 24 hours, so we're hammering her.
Speaker B: There you go. There you go. With. With your mandated DOT brakes, right?
Speaker D: Yeah, we just ran a hose.
Speaker B: There you go.
Speaker D: All right.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So this week is Storm field day. This is, uh, this is the fourth annual, I believe. Fourth annual field day.
Speaker D: Yes, sir.
Speaker B: To a new venue. It's big doings. Big goings on for Storm this year. New venue. They've outgrown their other venue.
Speaker D: Yeah, big time.
Speaker B: A couple less golf simulators might have helped, but, uh, I think it'll be.
Speaker D: I think this new one will be nice. It'll be right in town. Walking distance to the hotel.
Speaker B: That's important. So when you guys want to go
Speaker D: eat somewhere, you guys can just drive us. Be gone for a little while instead of the whole afternoon like last year.
Speaker B: So, yeah, that was. That was different. You know, we go get something to eat, and, uh, it's like everything's 20 minutes away and 20 minutes back.
Speaker D: So.
Speaker B: Yeah, it was, uh, it was interesting. But, uh, yeah, it should be a great time. Looking forward to it and getting out there and seeing everybody again, and it, uh, should be a lot of fun.
Speaker D: Yeah, definitely looking forward to seeing everybody. So. Pretty sure Arctic's bringing me my new black razorback.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a big boy truck to put it on? Are you gonna put it on like an F150?
Speaker D: No, I'll get a big boy truck.
Speaker B: Atta boy.
Speaker D: Uh, Spencer, Johnny, make m sure you ring that.
Speaker E: Yes.
Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure they have it loaded already. They're ready for you there.
Speaker D: I just talked to Johnny, I think. Yeah, Johnny. Johnny's doing a DJing something tonight, so.
Speaker B: Yeah, DJ Big Daddy.
Speaker D: Oh, dude, he's got the jacket and everything. You should see the jacket he's got on.
Speaker B: I bet he does. I bet he does. Oh, uh, so what are we doing tonight? We are, uh, we are trying to put a dent in these listener questions that we've accumulated in the last month, uh, since Saima. Um, you guys keep hammering away, and it's awesome. We love the feedback, we love the questions coming in. And whenever you guys send them in, we're going to. We're going to try and get them answered for you the best we can from our experiences. And tonight to help us do that, we got crowd favorites Mike Santa Lucito of Outdoor Pride, we got Robert Thing of Arty Outdoor up in Maine. And, uh, that's what we're going to do. We're going to try and put a dent in some of these. I think we're down to 56 questions now. Uh, in the, uh, in the queue so we knocked off five, uh, last week or two weeks ago with Billy Moore and Mike. And uh, we're gonna knock off another four to six tonight and uh, we'll keep getting these down for you guys in the offseason here going into contract season. A lot of, a lot of good stuff tonight. So that's what we got. We got the boys here in studio to do it. And uh, you know what we got to do before we do that? We got to hear from team Top Gun. We got to come back and do a quick week review. Got a lot of events to announce.
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Speaker B: All right, gang, we're back so we can review announcement time. Storm chasing season two is live on YouTube on the storm chasing YouTube channel. Head on over there. We got four episodes dropped for you. Uh, if you haven't already checked them out, there are four episodes up there to check out. Uh, July 22nd has already passed, so I'm not gonna read that. Uh, I'm sure all 50 or 60 people attended snow Posium up in Toronto.
Speaker D: Yes, I was trying to get in there. I couldn't find the right door. I couldn't find a right door.
Speaker B: He was there. He was trying. Couldn't get. Couldn't get in.
Speaker D: Sorry, Kirkham. Sorry, Kirkham.
Speaker B: You don't see me? I'm waving at you right now. You don't see me over there.
Speaker D: Those frosted doors, I just couldn't get through them.
Speaker B: Uh, as we said, storm field day is this week. The 29th and 30th tickets, uh, are over. So we'll, uh, you know, we'll see you out there if you're heading there. Uh, let's see, August 7th is the next one up. That's UD maintenance snow day. It's out in Amherst, Ohio. Uh, if you want to attend that, head on over to uni maintenance and on their socials there's a Q QR code, I believe for there.
Speaker D: Yeah, got a QR code.
Speaker B: Yep. All right, and then, uh, August 13th is a big day. You got a, ah, west show and an east show. So on, um, in the west, in Fargo, Morehead, you got the Valley Green snow and ice day in Fargo. All right. Or Morehead. Whatever. It's same Moorhead pretty much.
Speaker E: Yeah.
Speaker D: Yeah, just a river.
Speaker B: All right, so when it's a perfect day to do it, that's.
Speaker D: We don't. We don't have the daycares on our side. They have the gotcha.
Speaker B: Oh, that's funny. Uh, but yeah, if you want to go Valley green, check, uh, out their socials. They have a flyer up with a QR code as well. Uh, Also on the 13th is the Connecticut Groundskeepers Association Ground and Ice Expo. That's at the Durham Fairgrounds in Durham, Connecticut. Um, they are currently accepting vendors and sponsors for that event. Uh, they have a lot of different things going on, including an iron operator challenge with cash prizes. I think the top prize is a thousand dollars. So, uh, you know, that could be pretty cool. If you want more information on that, head over to CGKA dot com. August 18th in Story City, Iowa, is the snow removal workshop at the EBY showroom hosted by Iowa Professional Lawn Care Association. You can register for the event at Iowa Lawn Care.org $25 for members, $50 for non members. September 16th and 17th is our Pennsylvania swing. You got Wednesday Plow Tech school on the 16th at Storks. That is the Douglas Dynamics everything Plows spreaders to fix them on your own without needing a dealer. Uh, it's an awesome class, awesome day. Um, so you head over to storks on the 16th. That's Wednesday. And then if you're doing that, you might as well stick around in Pennsylvania. Drive an hour and 10 minutes to and go to the SNS Snow and Ice Solutions sixth annual snow show on Thursday. All right, that's the 17th. And if you're doing that, you might as well head back to Storks on Friday and Saturday for Storks open house this year. That's the 18th and 19th. All right, so Storks is doing a lot of events that week. And then on October 1st, we wrap up the season. I think we wrap up the season hopefully, uh, in Uxbridge, Massachusetts, for the third annual Northeast De Icing Solutions Deicing day. That is the Morton Wallace concert and all that good stuff up there.
Speaker D: Yeah, big, big day. Big day.
Speaker B: Should be a good time. They're putting up a building just for the event. So hopefully it gets finished in time.
Speaker D: Hopefully the building goes up. It wasn't up as the last week as he started.
Speaker B: Come on, uh, head on over to. If you're going to any of these, uh, events, you're going to need to be dressed properly. So head on over to snow jobs nationstore.com get all your snow Jobs nation swag. Keep uh, hitting like and subscribe on Apple podcasts and Spotify. Drop those five star reviews for us. Drop the comments, drop the questions. All right, uh, everything you guys do helps us bring you more of what you want to hear. All right, I think that's it. So, uh, you got anything else, Jay?
Speaker D: We're good, buddy.
Speaker B: All right, let's hear from our partners. We'll be right back and we'll get into with the boys. Hey guys, Steve here. We're always looking for ways to save on labor and increase safety for our people. Last year I purchased a game changing snowblower from my company that does just that. It's called the Musk Ox. It's patented back drag feature and design lets us get right up to our HOA garage doors and tight spots. Clean them all right down to the pavement without scratching. This piece can also scrape hard pack going forward if you need it to. It's truly a dual threat. Blower. Give Muskox a call. Their staff are extremely knowledgeable and have been amazing with us Muskox snow blowers that back drag. Step into the future of snow removal with arctic snow and ice products where innovation has been our driving force since the early 2000s. We're redefining efficiency and reliability for snow contractors nationwide. Explore our range from the game changing sectional snow pusher to the versatile double down salt bucket. Don't miss our latest innovation as we introduce the Razorback, the first ever sectional moldboard truck plow. Join us in shaping the future of snow removal. Discover more at www.arcticsnowproducts.com. you know what it takes to keep winter in check? Long nights, cold mornings. Crews that never quit. That's who Boss Snowplow was built for. From plows and spreaders to sidewalk and liquid solutions, every boss product is engineered for snow professionals like you. Tested tough, uh, built smart, proven to deliver when it matters most. We don't just make snow and ice equipment, we design it to dominate every storm. So when the snow starts flying, you're not just ready, you're boss ready. We're Boss Snowplow and we do whatever it takes to back you up. Guys if you follow the show lately, you've heard us mention the Plow Rite snow stakes. Well, now that I've tried them, I have to say I'm a huge fan. Installing traditional snow stakes is timec consuming, expensive, and if you're using fiberglass, just downright dangerous due to the splinters. That's where the Plow Rite marking stick system comes in. Their patented installation tool can install up to 450 stakes per hour. The stakes are made of hollow polypropylene, which will not crack, break, or splinter. They have three different size options from 26 to 46 inches. Come in five standard colors. Orange, green, blue, red, and hot pink. Best of all, everything is 100 made in the USA. Log on to plow-rite.com and order yours today. Be sure to use the promo code Snow jobs at checkout to save 10% off your order. All right, we're back, so let's bring in the boys, Mike and Rob. How we doing, guys? How's everything?
Speaker C: Great. What's going on, dudes?
Speaker B: Been. Been a while. Robert. How, uh, you doing?
Speaker C: Good.
Speaker B: How about you? Not too bad. Can't complain. Can't complain. Things. What? Or dad.
Speaker D: Sean.
Speaker B: Sean. Sean couldn't come on tonight. He has. He's. A wedding or something.
Speaker E: Uh, wife's probably getting married.
Speaker D: Finally found the right one. That's it. That's it.
Speaker B: I see he's getting rid of his little Alpha Romeo there. Oh, he won a car show. He what?
Speaker A: He.
Speaker D: He won some car show there. Neither. Didn't he see that or. No, that was a Snapchat car show.
Speaker E: Yeah, he got something.
Speaker D: Oh, first. First loser. I don't know.
Speaker E: Yeah, he's the first loser.
Speaker B: There's no points for second place.
Speaker D: Seconds. First loser.
Speaker B: Yeah, there's no points for second place.
Speaker D: Yeah, it was some. Some kind of car show. He had like, a little trophy stuff was for his exotic car or something.
Speaker B: For an Alfa Romeo, I guess. Really? Maybe they felt bad for him. Look at this guy. This is cute. He's bringing this to a car show.
Speaker D: He's the only one in the car show, and he still got second place.
Speaker B: So adorable. He's bringing an Alfa Romeo to a car show.
Speaker D: I don't even know what that is.
Speaker B: Uh, a little Italian car. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker E: Let's just put it at that. That's why nobody really knows what it is.
Speaker B: Are you saying Sean's car is. Median?
Speaker E: Uh, what is it? Jeff Dunham, when he has the puppet or whatever.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker E: Yeah, that Honda Civic thing. And it goes,
Speaker B: Uh. I miss Sean. He's too funny. Uh, anyway. Well, let's get rolling here, boys. I want to. I, uh, want to get through these tonight. Let's. Yeah, let's go. All right, serious. So first question. Uh, I know you guys are against working for national brokers, but if I do get an offer for a site in my town or that I'd want to explore further, what steps do you recommend I take?
Speaker C: And you still ask the question. I love that for you.
Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, good for him. You know, he's. I mean, I don't know. Maybe there. Maybe the brokers have all the sites in his town. Who knows?
Speaker C: I mean, I guess it really depends. Like, are they asking for your number or are they giving you numbers first and asking if you can meet that?
Speaker B: Don't they usually always send out the mass flyers with the price already on it? Yeah, like what they're willing to pay. And then they have the little counter offer button. Yeah, we've said it numerous times. If it's got a counter offer button, don't ever accept the first price. Um, I don't know. I mean, see, I'm just.
Speaker C: I.
Speaker B: It's not so much working against them. Even if they, Even if the money was right. Sometimes their contracts are designed to screw you.
Speaker C: Yeah. Unless you like, go through that thing really thoroughly or have like, uh. If you have like a lawyer, entertainer, have them go through it really thoroughly. If it's in like a very route dense area, like you've got eight buildings on the same street. Hypothetically. Yeah. Entertain it. I mean, you've already got so much in that area that's making you profitable.
Speaker B: That's if the money is right.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Not. Not win some, lose some. You know, we don't do that
Speaker C: like take a bath on it. But look on the contract first and make sure you're gonna get like all the money. If we have that kind of winter.
Speaker D: Yep. Yeah. You have to cross every t, dot every. I, uh, that they want you.
Speaker C: I mean, floors, payment terms, photos, before and after or during. Well, how many do you need for each?
Speaker B: And those are hidden things when you're, when you're looking at the money that they're offering. Even if you can get something that you think is reasonable or that you would entertain. A lot of the times the, the hoops that they make you jump through. That's all hours that, you know, you have to factor in every storm. Hours of reporting and documenting and stuff that always.
Speaker C: Phantom costs.
Speaker B: Yeah, you gotta get paid for those hours, you know, you can't just, you know, roll the dice. So you got to make sure that you factor that in when you're looking at their price, that you know every storm is going to be. How many hours, Mike, you think 3 to 4 of reporting and photographing, minimum.
Speaker C: But also if you do end up taking it, like, check the legal verbiage. Like if they lose that account, like, are you allowed to go after them yourself if, if it's in your area? Or do they have like a non compete, not solicit for like a year or two? Because that would suck. It's a place that you want and they have it.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker C: That's definitely one. One thing I think about the most is with a broker with a building that I want, if I do it and they lose it, I can't touch them for what, a year or two and hope that they don't lock somebody down for three years.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a slippery slope when you start dealing with the brokers. I just, you know, you know how we feel about it. But, uh, I don't know what, what, Rob.
Speaker E: Um, I don't know if you guys said insurance or not, but like, I've never had a insurance company that would, you know, ever even cover us for that.
Speaker B: That is true. That is true.
Speaker C: That's a great point.
Speaker E: And again, uh, now, now that I say that, I start to think about it like, how, how are people getting insurance for this?
Speaker B: I don't think they are. Or they either don't know that they're not insured for it until something happens and then. Wait, what, What? You want us to ensure what? No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker E: Yeah, but doesn't like, say that, you know, management company per se, don't they make you give them a copy of insurance that shows kind of like, uh, everything's together.
Speaker B: So I, I'm sure they do, but how much do they even care as long as they have you on the hook for it, whether you're properly.
Speaker C: They just want, they just want trucks on the ground.
Speaker B: Yeah. You know, because once you sign that contract, I'm sure their contract states that it's not on them, it's on you. You assume all liability on that.
Speaker D: Always on you.
Speaker B: So, uh, you know, I don't know if they actually care if you're properly insured or covered at that. I'm, you know, I'm sure they'll say they do. But, you know, when it comes time to getting boots on the ground, you know, uh, you look at who's doing some of these sites, you know, for brokers and, you know, they're not insured. If you can't afford a new fender for your 1987 Chevy that you're plowing that Walmart with, I. I doubt very highly you can afford, you know, $30,000 in, uh, insurance just for that store.
Speaker D: No, I don't know.
Speaker B: That's a tough question for us to answer. You might, uh.
Speaker E: I don't think it's worth it.
Speaker B: Yeah, I don't, uh.
Speaker C: It's nothing.
Speaker B: That's a tough one for us. We're kind of biased on that. But, you know, just make sure that you don't take their first offer. That's the. You know, I mean, if everything else. If you've done your due diligence, you've taken the contract to a lawyer and you've talked to your insurance company and they're willing to cover you on that with your snow rider and all that stuff, and everything comes out roses, make sure that you, you know, you don't accept their first offer. And if they're desperate, you know, there's been stories, uh, you know, and again, you don't know how true they are. We've talked to guys that say, oh, you know, I got exactly what I wanted from the broker. Well, you either didn't want enough money, or you're full of that. You got that price from the broker, you know.
Speaker C: Yeah, I just.
Speaker B: I don't know. I've never heard of a broker giving you more than what they bid the store for. I just. That's kind of. That's not the game they play.
Speaker C: So, like we said, if they're asking you for your number and you give it to them and they're fine with it, and you meet all their insurance requirements. Sure. Entertain it.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: Very rare, very far, and few between.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, good luck. I don't. And again, I don't think we're the best guys to answer that question. Um, we just don't. We don't do enough. We don't do any business with them, so we don't know enough of the ins and outs. What?
Speaker D: Oh.
Speaker B: Uh, so let's move on, then. Uh, let's see. This is a good one. Uh, I'm looking to get my first machine this winter season. Do you think I should purchase it, lease it, or possibly even rent it? If the terms are right. And do you think I should get a skid or a compact loader?
Speaker C: There's so many great answers to that.
Speaker D: M. So many.
Speaker B: Yep. I'll be the first to say I'm I'm more inclined to worry about what I'm putting in front of the machine before the machine.
Speaker C: Can I put something before that?
Speaker D: Go ahead.
Speaker C: What's the contract term?
Speaker D: Are we talking about one year annual? Yeah.
Speaker B: Is this a route, machine specific? Yep. 100.
Speaker D: Yeah, it's gonna be a three year and then you can buy. If it's a one year then you want to probably just rent.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Or are you buying this to take like three or four sites on, on a route or are you buying this as a site, site specific machine for one contract? I mean there's a lot of. Does the contract. Have you done your, your numbers? Right. That the contract over that three year contract is paying off that machine for 12 months? Because that's, you know, you have to do that with the attachment with whatever you're putting in front of it.
Speaker E: Unless you already have something.
Speaker B: Unless you do. Yeah, but I mean, uh, yeah, my philosophy, I mean I've said it on the show uh, once or twice that my philosophy was always to buy the machines and have the contracts pay for them. Because if I'm leasing or I'm renting and I go belly up or I die something, that's it.
Speaker C: You're an equity guy?
Speaker B: We, yeah, I like, I like having equity and having something that my family can sell and get money back on. Um, if you're leasing or rent.
Speaker C: Morbid man.
Speaker B: Well, you know, it's just, that's how I look at it. That's um, you know I, I do the contracts that the machine, any machine I'm going to put on that site is going to be paid for by that contract for 2012 months. I'm not using it for anything else. And that's, that's how we do it. And you know that might not work for everybody, but that works for us and that's why we roll with it.
Speaker E: And the, the problem with us is, you know, we have so much equipment for summer work that like excavator skid steers and all that type of stuff that for us to carry, you know, loader payments and everything else. I mean yes, if your contract in the Winter should pay 12 months of Ah, a payment, I understand that. But when you get into the nitty gritty of that, it's like you have to now take that money out of the installments from that uh, from that snow site and then almost put them in a total separate bank account that then pays that or you got to pay that loan ahead. And it just gets sticky where I, where we have kind of been renting a little more than I ever have in the past, you know, 10 years, I guess.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker E: And I think it works better. I mean, you pay, you know, obviously more for five to six months, whatever your contract terms are. But at the end of the day, you know, all we do is grease it, check the oil, and put fuel in it. And then at the end of the day, we bring it to the shop, we pressure wash it, and then we bring it back.
Speaker B: And that's a great point, Robert, because I'm a compact equipment guy. I'm not a big loader dude. I'm a compact loader and skid guy. So if I had to, if I was looking at a $250,000 machine instead of $100,000 machine, that's going to change my thought process a little bit. So that's a great point to bring up. And I should have specified that myself. I'm a compact loader and skid guy. I don't have any big loaders. We don't need them, uh, for what we do.
Speaker D: Also, the way I look at it too, in that whole scenario is, can you use. If you want to get a, you know, skid, compact kind of. I wouldn't say the same thing, but kind of in. In some ways. But if you are going to use that skid year round, not just for snow.
Speaker B: Sure.
Speaker D: You know, if you're landscaping and obviously get a skid, you're going to use a skid more than you use a compact in the summer. More than likely, yeah.
Speaker B: Can you find other work for it?
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: I feel like you're charging two different rates, though, because green season is always lower than the snow season. One, because the season's longer than snow season is. But two, it's a lot more like cost competitive in that market. So you got to kind of be a little bit lower than you would be if you're alley rate for your winter work.
Speaker B: Interesting.
Speaker D: Okay.
Speaker B: I charge the same hourly. I do. I don't. I didn't know you're supposed to charge less in the green season.
Speaker C: I'm not saying you are. I'm saying some guys do 10, four.
Speaker B: Yeah. Generally we don't even. Yeah, we don't even. When we used to do a lot of green work and it called for a skid or an excavator, it was just like, give us a price for the job. And we just tacked on like, whatever my hourly was in the system for the skid, you know, for the winter. That's what. That's what it was for. Okay, skid and Harley rake for. For that job. That's what it is. I think what m. Most of them we do by the day rate, so there probably is a little bit less. We're not charging them for eight full hours. We're probably giving them a little bit of a break there on the day rate.
Speaker A: But.
Speaker B: Yeah, but that's, uh. I mean, that's definitely. That's definitely good stuff. And as far as what you should get, I. I mean, like, Like Jeremy said, can you get other work for it? You're definitely going to be able to do more. Be more versatile with a skid than a compact loader. Um, and probably be able to do a little more work with it. But at the same time, what do you need it for in the winter? Uh, do you need to travel 3/4 of a mile down the road? Uh, if you do between snow sites, um, three quarters of a mile can be done in a skid. It's not fun. I would not recommend it. And it's slow.
Speaker C: Yeah, if ground speed, we do it all the time.
Speaker B: Yeah, it's. I mean, What's a skid? 11 miles an hour. Top speed in second? 12.
Speaker D: 13.
Speaker C: 12.
Speaker B: Yeah, 12. Maybe you get an extra. Yeah, maybe you get an extra mile per hour with snow tires.
Speaker C: Maybe if you turn the heater off, you get an extra two or three.
Speaker B: No, I think the SV 280s, I think, are 12.
Speaker D: I think they're like 12 or 13.
Speaker B: I think they're 12 miles an hour. I think they're eight miles an hour. And for in low and then 12 and high, and then, uh, the compacts are running, like 21. The three.
Speaker D: 23. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker B: So it really depends, you know, what you need to do and what time frame you need to do it in for that machine and what you're gonna.
Speaker D: Like you said, put on the front of it also, you know, that has
Speaker B: a lot to do with it.
Speaker D: Um, but I'm a loader guy, so I would. I. I'd say loader. But like you say, it all depends on what he's got.
Speaker B: Well, I mean, if this guy's looking to add his first machine. He said it's his first machine. He probably doesn't have any pusher. That's what I'm guessing. Uh, because why would you have a. Unless he's rented machines in the past and he's just bought the pusher instead of, uh, renting the pusher with it. Um, you know, as always, I would. I would say, no matter what, whether you're going skid or compact. If you're not, if you don't have a brand preference, um, check out what Danes has rates wise, because they have all three packages. Buy rent or lease. Uh, that'll definitely, definitely save you from some coin. Yeah, big time. Over a dealer. Anything else on those questions, guys?
Speaker D: No.
Speaker B: No. Okay, we're rolling right along here. All right, Um, I assume this one's talking about me. When you were talking about coming up with your prices for contracts in an episode a while back, you had mentioned there was a lot of hidden. There are a lot of hidden costs that most guys do not think about to pass on to the customer in the contract. Do you mind elaborating on that?
Speaker C: Um, yeah, we just talked about a few right there. I mean your, your phantom cost for the time that you spend managing some of these contracts that may have some documentation in there that is above and beyond what you would normally do for your existing properties.
Speaker D: Like a weather service. Mistakes.
Speaker B: Percentage. A percentage of the weather service. Yep.
Speaker D: Management fee, you know. Yeah.
Speaker B: Ah, uh, consumables. Like I had a conversation with, uh, one of the, the younger guys around here the other day and he was asking me, you know, what cost do you transfer to your customers? I'm, you know, listen, whatever your cost is to service the machines that are going on their site for the year, oil, filters, fluid, you know, hydraulic filters, fluids, whatever that cost is to turn that machine around, get it ready for the winter season, I'm not absorbing that cost. If that machine's going to a site, that site is going to absorb that cost. You know, so that consumable line item in the contract, you know, that's what that's for. Um, snow stakes. Not just the price of them. The hours that the guys are staking and removing the stakes, don't forget about pulling them out at the end of the year. Pulling them out is a little quicker than putting them in. But, uh, you know, the, like the one complex we have, it's three guys for, you know, almost a full seven hour day staking, uh, this one complex. And uh, you know, that's all that money's got to come from somewhere.
Speaker D: Plus you get half of them back.
Speaker B: Yeah, we have about, I think we have like a 30% between 30 and 35 that we, we throw out or lose, um, by the end of the year, almost all of them. This year, this, well, I mean, hard winters where you're plowing a lot of events, you're gonna lose more obviously.
Speaker E: Like we didn't have to go and pull any out of the ground, they're already on the ground.
Speaker B: Oh my God. This is a winter where if you had fiberglass, you're just picking up splinters at the end of the end of the year. You're just grinding them into nothing. Um, if you, I mean honestly, the hidden cost, if you are writing up a new contract or something for, for a site that's not part of your cookie cutter contract that you use, if you're adding stuff to take on a new site that you've never done before and you need to, to go to your lawyer, you know, to have him review that and, and you know, you know, put his stamp on that contract, you know, that $250 hour, I, that's got to get transferred to the customer, you know, because their contract that you have to go to the lawyer to draw up, uh, for some reason they didn't like your cookie cutter or that's not feasible for you. I mean, that's another hidden cost. Like Jeremy said, the weather service, every site you have should pay a portion, a percentage of that weather service cost because they're all taking advantage of it. You're giving them all the weather reports. Um, so they should all see that. What else is. I'm trying to, I'm trying to picture
Speaker D: my list like you say management fees, site checks, stuff like that that you don't, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, that's part of it.
Speaker B: Yep, absolutely.
Speaker C: Am, PM checks. You're only doing a partial or maybe a minimal treatment on
Speaker B: putting together the bid. Like the, I mean the bid is if you're putting together a proper bid on a, you know, a semi complex site, you know, that's 10 to 12 hours of work to, to write it up properly and get all the numbers and calculations and, and figure out all that stuff. Um, you know, who's paying your guys for doing that, for taking the photos and taking the measurements and you know, going on site photos and drawing up the maps, you know, that's doesn't cost any money. That's, that's all money that, that's all time that you're spending on their site. Why should they not absorb that cost? Why should you absorb.
Speaker C: And then the one that's also managing that contract, like communicating with that client non stop, uh, before, during and after the event. That's, that's a lot of time right there.
Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. I think that was a, uh, you know, mobilization and demobilization. Make sure you put hours in for that. You know, if you have like this year breaking down the one site we had to get. We did not do a midnight run back. We, we always do a midnight run down to the site with the machines, you know, before the first event. But coming back, we, we don't really do that in the spring, you know, people are flying around on the roads. It's a different ball game. You know, driving you, you're really taking your chances. Uh, you know what you're going to find on the road after midnight there, drive it a couple miles back to the shop on the road. So each, each machine had to go back on the trailer. You know, so all, all seven of the salt bins that we use on that site, they all had to go on the trailer three at a time. So it was like two and a half trips on that, um, you know, your attachments for your SSVs. The SSVs all got to go on the trail. So you got to figure out how long estimate how many trips you're going to have to make to mobilize and demobilize and you know, you're talking a couple grand probably by the time, you know, you're all said and done with fuel for the truck, paying the guys, you know, all that stuff, depending on how far away it is from your shop.
Speaker C: Yeah. Or put all that in your, in your contact, uh, verbiage. Like we have salt bins that we take down and put up every year, but the client pays for that.
Speaker B: Sure, they should. Yeah, but I don't, I don't know that a lot of guys do a mobilization, like, especially on the smaller end, um, you know, my size, company or smaller. I don't think they think about that a lot of the times. Like the cost of setting up a site and breaking it down at the end of the year. And then it's like, oh, uh, Christ, you know, that was like 30 man hours and 600 bucks in fuel. And I didn't put that in the contract. So now by the, you know, now you're out a couple grand.
Speaker C: And look, I, I understand, right. If that bin is servicing more than one area, if you're making a jumbo sized bin on one property, but it's also treating a few others in the area, you're probably not going to want to rock that boat. Yeah, you can work with them, try and get something.
Speaker D: Sure.
Speaker B: You can do a percentage. Everything's a percentage. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, that mobilization demobilization, definitely get them, um, you know, definitely get your servicing your machine, servicing your trucks that are going to be on that site. You know, what are we doing every year on plow trucks. Every year is breaking brake pads and sometimes rotors. Uh, know, if you're. If you're lucky, you're not having to change out the rotors. But you know, those brake pads, they gotta. They gotta come from the site, you know, that can't come out of your pocket.
Speaker D: You just.
Speaker B: You're just gonna be Mr. Nice Guy and pay for everything yourself. That. I'm not that nice. I'm nice. I'm not that nice, though. I mean, it's. Business, like, snow is such an interesting industry because any other. Look at any other industry, everything is built in so that every cost that business has to get you the product is covered by you. Like, you look at the medical profession or the. For my purposes, the veterinarian profession, you know. You ever heard of fucking wellness checks? You know, wellness checks? You're going to the doctor, you're going, uh, you're taking your animals to the vet twice a year, three times a year, just when they're not even sick, because it's part of their financial projection so they can project their income for the year. We have 100 patients, we'll get them for two wellness checks a year. That's $500 an average, you know, each visit, you know, $400 maybe, depending on whatever, you know, wherever you go. But that's all income they're trying to guarantee. So snow is, like, the only one that does anything on spec. Like, you've got to guarantee as much money coming in as possible, that you've covered as much of your cost as you could possibly think you're going to have. We shouldn't give anything away. And that's just business. That's not being a dick. That's just good business.
Speaker D: Yeah, it's knowing your numbers.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean. But I think so many guys forget little things like that that add up to thousands of dollars that, you know, as an industry, I think we have a lot of holes in our business acumen. A lot of people. It's got to get. You know, we're the only industry that just does stuff by, you know, spec and hoping instead of covering every cost that, uh, you know, you have.
Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker B: Anything else on that one?
Speaker D: Oh, nice.
Speaker B: All right, keep going here. Uh, let's see. A site I have done for years. Changed property management companies last month, and the new guy has already said, I am too expensive, and he is entertaining lower bids. What, if anything, can I do about this?
Speaker E: Nothing.
Speaker C: No, you can give. You can do some data of, uh, what you have. Like what it's taken you over the years to service that site? Uh, depending on if it's a seasonal, if it's a variable, just whatever you have, just send it over to them. Hey, this is what I've typically billed on this site for this amount of inches per year. You know, are you prepared to pay that with this person? Are they prepared to service it to the extent that I have? You know, we've had no slip and falls, we had no major damages on the property. We've had, uh, no, uh, service lapses. Are, uh, you sure you want to try somebody new? And we have a record of success here at your property. You know, you're, you're brand new at this site. Don't you want to make yourself look good to whoever you're reporting to?
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker D: Here.
Speaker B: First off, this is why you have a personal relationship with as many of your site owners as you can. Because who is saying that you're too expensive? Is it the property manager or is it the owner or. Because if you've been there for years
Speaker C: with, he wants to bring in 100%
Speaker B: and that's more likely what's going on. These property management companies, if you think they don't have their companies that are, they want to get in place because they've had their scams figured out how they can make more money on sites there, I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are less than scrupulous property management companies out there that have figured out a game and they play it well, but in order to play it, they have to have participants in place that know the game, that know what they're doing. So is he just trying to remove you from the equation because he wants to put his people in place because they know what they're supposed to do and what they're supposed to say in a certain situation, um, or, you know, I would find out is the property owner that's saying you're too expensive, how long you've been doing the site, and if you haven't had any problems there and you've been giving them great service, why the hell would he change just because he changed property management companies? Go ahead, Rob.
Speaker E: See, I've, I had that happen three times already this year back in April and May. So. And Mike, I was talking to you about this the other day. Like, uh, I can, we have the data that I can show for the past three years, each year. This is how many times we did a SALT application. This is how many times we plowed, not storms. This is how many times we put blades down and scraped your entire parking lot, did all the walkways, did everything, and explain to them and show them that, hey, this is our price because of this, like, we have the historical data for the past three years.
Speaker B: They don't care.
Speaker E: They go.
Speaker C: They're willing to roll the dice.
Speaker E: They're willing to roll the dice, and they will deal with a service because
Speaker C: it's cheap, but it makes them look worse to the tenant that's in that building.
Speaker B: 100%.
Speaker E: Yeah. And that's the problem that I'm having currently is just no matter what you do, it, uh, everything comes down to price.
Speaker C: Right?
Speaker E: I mean, you know, Mike, I sent you all the packets and the PDF files of everything that we send, and it says who we are, what we do, where we're going, what we offer. This is how we do it. And it's like they just don't. They don't care. And it. That state, it's, uh, municipal. It's, you know, it's everything. But I don't know if it's just my market, though, either. You know, uh, picture it this way, too, though.
Speaker C: Think about how much money everybody spent last year on snow that they weren't expecting to spend. Probably they pulled from so many different budgets and pools of money at this point point to pay those, uh, invoices that now they're trying to figure out a way to make up that delta, like, all right, there's no way we're going to get another 80 or whatever, you know, inch year that we did last year. Let's roll the dice and see if we get like a 40 or a 50 and we can save a little bit of dough. It's not the right way to do it, but I know there are plenty of people are going to be in that position now going into this year that I'm expecting to have to fight tooth and nail, just like Rob did for contracts I've been doing for years, all because we had one great winter after having, what, six or seven duds.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker E: But I mean, it's not where people get the idea that you win some and you lose some is the stupidest thing in the, um.
Speaker D: Fargo.
Speaker B: It comes from Fargo. I think that's where it comes from.
Speaker D: Yeah, I've heard it. I've heard it.
Speaker B: It's the dumb. I've said it before. I gotta. We gotta make a shirt with that. That is the dumbest statement ever uttered in snow. You win some, you lose some. You, you, you and your customers should.
Speaker D: Oh, my statement no, not me.
Speaker B: No, I'm just saying that I've heard that from more than Fargo. I've heard that numerous times over the years. And I'm like, that is the dumbest thing.
Speaker C: That's why we haven't moved ahead.
Speaker B: That's it. But that's. That's so antiquated in thinking you and your customer should both come out of the end of the season feeling like you both won, you both got your money's worth, you did the work that needed to be done, and you got paid accordingly. And they feel like they got their money's worth for what they needed to pay.
Speaker C: Client had a safe site, no falls, no tenants complaining to them, um, about poor service. That's a big win right there for you and for them.
Speaker B: I think they like the floors and the ceilings. The customers definitely like that because they think it's. Keeps it fair. Uh, and it does, to a degree. Uh, it keeps it fair for both parties. The only time you're gonna have a problem with that is if you're constantly. If you're constantly going over and activating the ceiling, and the floor never gets activated. But then, listen, then you're. That's a good thing, because then that's saying you don't have any downwinters. You don't have a lot of variation. So that's a good thing. They should always feel like they're getting their money's worth then. Yeah, but I mean, if you keep having to hammer, um, them over the head for, you know, if you're hammering them over the head because you've hit the ceiling now five out of the. The last six, seven years, guess what? You need to raise your average in your contract because you no longer have what average you thought, you know? And again, you need to keep it fair. If that's happening, you need to bring that average up.
Speaker C: We lost the 2015 season. Now I got the 20, 25, 26 season.
Speaker B: There you go.
Speaker C: Rolled right in there for the 10 year.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I would tell Bill from Connecticut here, um, talk to the site owner, if you can, and find out if this is coming from him or. Because he may not even know about it. Um, because a new property manager, uh, they want to impress the tenant. So they always want to save the owner's money. And sometimes the owner doesn't want to save money if he's got a snow contract, like I've heard. I've had a property management company that we do a lot of work with. That's a very good company to do. It right? And they sit there and say, that is a good one. I like that shirt. Jeremy. Jeremy just had a great shirt idea. New T shirt, dumb things. No, contractors say that could be a good, that could be a hit.
Speaker D: We're doing that. We're doing that. I'll call Media Shack. We're doing.
Speaker B: I lost my train of thought now. Uh, what was I saying?
Speaker C: I don't know. Higher ups want to be happy, want everybody to be happy. Why change? Why rock the boat?
Speaker B: Well, yeah, he may not even know that this guy is trying to do this. And the uh, prop. Oh, that's what I was saying. The property manager that we do a lot of, uh, not a lot, but we've done work with him for a long time, he is literally said, you can delay payment or hold payment on pretty much any other like electricians, plumbers, if you need to. If you have a snow contractor that kicks ass and you never get bad calls, you get good calls and emails and these guys are fucking phenomenal. You keep them happy at all costs. You pay them up front. The snow contractors, you never with the snow contractors. And that's a property manager that gets it because there's very few guys that can do, you know, certain things and if you find them, you know, you take care of them and you make sure they get paid before anybody else. But this guy might not know anything about it, this property owner. So I would definitely get a hold of him and check on it and see if he knows anything about this. Because you can say, well, we've been doing great work for you. You know, uh, I've had nothing but good reviews and now all of a sudden you guys are looking to replace me. Yeah, he may not have a clue.
Speaker C: This sounds like a small, not small, but this sounds like a site with little oversight from ownership because a lot of your, call it your 100 to 300 to 500 thousand dollar single site accounts, the operations asset manager is heavily tied to that building and up, uh, to the vp, to the ownership. If you have a new property manager that's taking that seat and you've been doing great, they are going to vouch for you and they're not going to let that person change any kind of hands. If.
Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm almost positive this is like a 150k or less site, uh, where it's probably one owner of a warehouse or one owner of a office building or something just looking to cut some money.
Speaker C: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker B: And like I said, the owner might not even know this guy's doing it, so I would investigate that further. And, um, you know, like I said, these little property management companies, they have figured out the shell game as well. Uh, so don't think that they're always on the level either. You know, the good ones from the bad ones. Anything else on that? Robert, you got anything on that?
Speaker D: No.
Speaker B: Good to go, Jay? Nothing else?
Speaker D: We're good, buddy.
Speaker B: All right, let's hit some commercials real quick and we'll, uh, see how many more we can get done here.
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Speaker D: Yep.
Speaker C: Steve, you had a great answer to that.
Speaker B: Uh, I don't remember it right now. Oh, the best way to. Probably the best way, yes, it is possible. Um, especially on smaller sites. Um, you know, the, the outdoor pride's like campuses and stuff that might not be possible to have two different contractors, but on smaller sites like that? I do, yes, you can definitely do it, but it's how you package it. If you go in there and you want to get the snow and you know that they only want one vendor for the year, go in there with a, uh, partner basically that only wants the green and have that preloaded and have his price for that complex already done for the basics, you know, the lawn, the basic mulch, you know, have him do his homework because it works for both of you. If you can go in there and present it and you can get that guy the green work, it's in his best Interest to get you good firm pricing to do his, his portion of that year round contract. And that's what we've done. Uh, we have that currently on three sites. Well now it's down to two because I gave one up. Um, but the two sites, we work very well together. He wants nothing to do with the white stuff. I want nothing to do with the green stuff. There's, but we go in there basically and I, I basically presented as a team that, hey, we're going to take care of everything from November to April and then Will's going to step in, he's going to take care of the rest of it from April to November.
Speaker C: Uh, now who pays who though?
Speaker B: They pay each. They pay each vendor.
Speaker C: Okay, so they're paying.
Speaker B: I have my own contract. He has his own contract. You just give them the folder with both of them and say, hey, here's it's, you can have it still be easy. Here's a package deal where we've already talked about it. We know our responsibilities. Uh, we're just not one company. So you're going to have to pay two, two different vendors. But you know, that's the way you can do it. If you only want the white and the green, you give them basically their option.
Speaker C: Yeah. And if they don't want to do that and they want to just pay one person directly, communicate with one person directly, have them on your payroll as a subcontractor and you can do that like 5% on top for your administrative fees for uh, waiting for their money to come in before you pay your sub.
Speaker B: You know, I would be so worried though, if you find somebody that's that lazy that they can't pay one contractor for six months and another contractor for the other six months.
Speaker C: If that's too hard for them.
Speaker B: If that's too hard for them. I don't know if I want to work there. Like freaking ridiculous.
Speaker C: How lazy would make a lot of us snow guys Lives a lot easier if people would just accept the fact that some are better at snow than land and vice versa. Uh, and just it's okay to have two different b.
Speaker D: We've done it for years. We've done it for years. Snow.
Speaker B: That's it.
Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, I mean we do some, some green now, but I mean some of our bigger campuses we were doing the green, but for majority we're just doing the white.
Speaker B: Yeah. So we're, we're living proof. It's definitely possible. Jeremy, that's their whole business is just to do the white for the Most part. And, uh, we definitely have done that. We've transitioned very well from not doing it year round. We, we want to focus more on. On the white stuff. Robert, what about you? Is it possible for you to. You to do that just get the snow or you got to do the green stuff too?
Speaker E: No, we do a lot of just snow sites. Um, now I think about it, I don't think we have one that we do both at.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker E: We have all snow.
Speaker B: It also will help you if you have an excellent reputation in snow in your area. Um.
Speaker E: Yep.
Speaker B: Because generally when people, when people are. You can kind of dictate to them if they're calling you because they had a, uh, you know, a disaster with a snow company the year before. If they're calling you because they've heard you're the best at snow in the area or very good, then you can tell them like, hey, listen, I understand you want one vendor for year round. We're more than happy to help you with the snow. We would love to work here for snow. We're just not. We can't do the green well and we know we're not going to do it well. We can't get the manpower. Whatever, whatever your situation is, just break it down for them. And if you have a good enough reputation and they had a big enough disaster the year before, you might still be able to get it.
Speaker D: I mean, Mike hit it right on the head. You know, some people are better at green, some people are better at white. It's just the way it is, you know? Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, it's all what you love doing too. If you don't love doing snow, you're not going to do it well. You're going to cut every corner you can if you hate being out there.
Speaker D: Yeah. You know them.
Speaker B: Absolutely. You're going to. You gotta. Your guys have to be just as vested and love it just as much as you. And you can see the quality of the work. The different. The guys that take real pride in snow versus the guys that are just doing it for a paycheck.
Speaker C: Yep.
Speaker B: So you can definitely do it though. There's a way. Especially on the smaller sites. There is definitely ways to get it done. I, um, would start with that. Find a cooperator, uh, a company that really wants the green and doesn't have any interest in the snow. Make, um, sure they do quality work so that you're not recommending a flop, um, you know, and have them go to whatever site it is and do a workup for you. How much, How Much per week for the lawn, how much to do the mulch twice a year. Um, how much for. They got some flowers planted on three islands. You know, just get that. All that leaf cleanup, you know, all the basics for the green stuff and have that. Be able to present that to. To the people when you present your white contract. Hopefully that's enough to get it done for you. Uh, I don't know. I think we'll cut it there. I got an early day tomorrow.
Speaker D: Sounds good, buddy.
Speaker B: You guys good?
Speaker D: We're good.
Speaker B: What did you say, Robert?
Speaker D: I heard you.
Speaker E: You heard me?
Speaker B: Why'd you ask what I said? Because I don't think the audience did.
Speaker E: I said, there you go. The old Steve would stay up all night.
Speaker B: He would. He would. Uh, the. The new Steve has been 24 on, 24 off for 36 days now, so it's getting to me.
Speaker C: All right, so when you're retired, I'll be able to do this till midnight?
Speaker B: Hell, yes. We won't start recording till midnight. Absolutely.
Speaker C: What do you mean? That's like 10 o' clock your time.
Speaker B: Yeah, he's spoiled out there.
Speaker D: I, uh, don't give a.
Speaker B: The sun doesn't even go down. It's ten o' clock at night there. What?
Speaker E: Yeah, yeah, the sun is still up.
Speaker B: Look at his face.
Speaker C: It's like golden hour.
Speaker B: Well, that's because out there, the earth is flat, Robert.
Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. There's no hills, no trees. The flat earthers all live out in Minnesota.
Speaker B: That's it, man. Oh, North Dakota.
Speaker D: I'm not Minnesota. I'm not Minnesota.
Speaker E: It's the same thing, ain't it? No, that it's flat and every road is straight. Yeah.
Speaker B: 100.
Speaker D: Beautiful.
Speaker B: I have to make.
Speaker C: I do want to try that at one point in my life. Just drive down one of those straight ass.
Speaker B: Dude, it's so sick. It's so sick.
Speaker D: It's so fun.
Speaker B: It's literally like from Minneapolis. When you get off the plane, you get the rental car, you get out of the Minneapolis proper and get out into the country there on the way to storm. It's literally like you look at the gps, you're like, oh, I got to make a right in an hour.
Speaker D: I mean, we're. Until then, you don't even. You don't even need a Tesla. You just put a tarp strap in your steering wheel and go to sleep.
Speaker C: Correct.
Speaker B: 100. Dude. Like, it's so easy.
Speaker D: Set the cruise. Set the cruise and go.
Speaker B: No wonder he's yelling at me in the northeast. When I'm not doing 90 on winding roads because he's so used to doing. If I was driving out there. Oh, dude, I don't know if I can keep it.
Speaker C: You'll hit a Chevron sign and your pants.
Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know if I could do under 100 out there. You know, Flat Road, you can see two miles ahead of you and no, no turns. No. Oh my God. God, that's easy.
Speaker D: God's country, that's why.
Speaker B: Oh, my good Lord. That's so funny.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: All right, well, we're not seeing any of you. Not seeing Robert or Mike, right? You guys aren't coming to storm, so won't see you this week. But Jeremy, I'll see you in a couple days.
Speaker D: Couple days, buddy.
Speaker B: Yes, sir.
Speaker D: So Dustin Van Hale is gonna have a barbecue for us.
Speaker B: That's it, baby. Tuesday night, right?
Speaker D: Yeah. Looking forward to the hot dogs off the turbo of his kw.
Speaker B: Dude, that's badass. I'll do it. Oh, yeah, that's great, man. I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be a lot of fun. But, um. All right, we good boys?
Speaker D: Yes, sir.
Speaker B: All right, well then we'll wrap it there. So thank you very much as always to Mike and Robert for helping us out tonight. And we'll wrap episode 181 of the Snow Jobs podcast main show. So everybody, if you're heading to storm day this week, everybody have very safe travels, all right? Be careful getting out there and, uh, we'll all have a great time. If you're not heading out there, we will, uh, see you again next week. But everybody have a great week. Be safe. Keep pushing. Deny it I stand and still defy it Every light stretch Every light All every life we open night Mhm.
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