Roz Morris: How To Look More Credible, Confident and Professional On Screen

Speaker A: As an example of how things used to be, I should tell you that the Guardian Northern news editor, uh, once sent me home for wearing trousers to work. Even on the Guardian in the early 1970s, women still had a long way to go. I did end up presenting the political and industrial program, the weekly program I was the first woman to do it for, um, in the Northeast for tying tees. And I, um, really enjoyed that. It's lovely having your own show. I did an interview for one of the Welsh TV stations for HTV with Shirley Bassey. Um, and that was good fun. Of course, the thing is, I didn't get the credit. The presenter got the credit because they edited it as though it was their presenter who'd done it. I didn't mind, though. It was so interesting, you know, to meet her. And also she's quite prickly and quite difficult because she has been a megastar. It only occurred to me about a few years ago that it never occurred to me to give up. I'd found my thing. I just thought, these people are in my way. Like the news editor who, you know, my brilliant career. Like the news editor who sent me home, uh, from wearing trousers to work. I just thought, you know, I mean, it didn't stop me, you know, nothing was going to stop me. And I just had this huge drive to want to do my best in that. And I think you.

Speaker B: Which is one thing I think you

Speaker A: need that you need to find a job where you really, really like doing it. And therefore you want to get up in the morning and do.

Speaker C: Welcome to Secrets of Learning and Development, the podcast where we explore the insights, trends and hidden gems that shape the future of personal and organizational growth. Join your hosts, Valerie and Julia, as they uncover the secrets of successful learning and development, featuring expert interviews and practical tips for executives and professionals. Whether you are seeking the latest training techniques, leadership advice or ways to build a learning culture, this podcast, uh, is your guide to unlocking the potential within yourself and your organization. Get ready for a journey into the world of learning and development. Now here's Valerie and Julia to start today's episode.

Speaker D: Welcome to the Secrets of Learning and Development. I'm Julia Bend, executive coach and founder of Premier Coaching. And I'm joined by my wonderful co host, Valerie Merrill, training professional and founder of Merrell Consultants. Together, we bring you conversations with guests who have stories worth hearing. And today's guests have spent more than 32 years in television news through her business, TV News London.

Speaker B: Today, we're delighted to welcome Ros Morris, author, broadcaster and founder of TV News London, a company specializing in media PR and presentation training for both individuals and organisations across the private and public sectors. Ros brings with her a rich background in journalism and broadcasting, from the Guardian, The observer to BBC Radio Television reporting, before going on to build a business that has now been running, as we say, for more than 30 years.

Speaker D: She is also the author of the Visual Revolution Guidebook, which explores the idea that we are all broadcasters. Now, in this episode, we'll be taking a closer look at the evolution of media training and visual communication and why these skills matter more than ever. Ros, a, uh, warm welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Well, thank you very much. Lovely to be here.

Speaker B: Lovely, thank you. Welcome.

Speaker D: So, let's start at the beginning. How did you get into journalism in the first place, especially when you knew you didn't want to follow the teaching path that so much of your family has taken?

Speaker A: Well, yes, I mean, I come from a family of teachers. My father was a graphic designer, but my mother was a teacher and, uh, her brother and two of her sisters and my, my cousins are teachers or were teachers. And some of my cousins are university lecturers and professors. But when I went to university I knew I didn't want to be a teacher. I read history at Oxford and all I knew was that I didn't know what my career would be. But then I found the university newspaper, Charwell, and as they say nowadays, I found my tribe. I realised that, uh, I liked asking questions and communicating and writing and that journalism was the career for me and it has been for the last 30 odd years. So I wrote a lot of articles for Charwell and applied for graduate trainee jobs as a print journalist and I was lucky enough to land a job on the Guardian.

Speaker D: So what was the newspaper world like at the time?

Speaker A: Well, of course it was very male dominated. I mean, I was in the Manchester newsroom of the Guardian. It was called the Guardian then. It was, it started off as the Manchester Guardian, as some people will know, but it was called the Guardian and it still had a big newsroom in Manch. Uh, and there were about a dozen reporters in the Guardian's Manchester newsroom and only two were women. And I don't remember any of the subs, the sub editors who checked all the copy and got it into the newspaper. I don't remember any of them being women. And as an example of how things used to be, I should tell you that the Guardian northern news editor once sent me home for wearing trousers to work even on the Guardian in the early 1970s, women still had a long way to go. And I wasn't wearing jeans. I was wearing black trousers and a black top, I remember, and looking smart. And the other woman said to me, I don't think he'll let you wear it. You have to wear a skirt. Anyway, um, the interesting thing about that is that after a year in Manchester, they sent me to work in Newcastle Pontine as the Guardian's Northeast correspondent. And that's when I really learned how to be a journalist, because I had to ring up the news editor in Manchester every day and I had to find some stories and read lots of local papers and work with other journalists on other papers to cover press conferences, which there used to be a lot of in the 1970s, there used to be press conferences. So just to let you know that, um, the first time he called me back for a meeting after about sort of five months in the job in Newcastle, I deliberately wore a very smart trouser suit.

Speaker D: Rebel.

Speaker B: Go, girl. I like it.

Speaker D: Well, yeah.

Speaker A: And he never said a word. Well, the thing you should think, I was working in Newcastle on my own. He couldn't tell me what to wear there, could he? You know, um. No, I mean, it just shows you, you know, um. We had a long way to go and we still got a way to go.

Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. So across your career, you worked for the BBC on the World at One, and moved into television with BBC Scotland and then went on to report, present and make documentaries. So looking back across all of that, what did you enjoy most?

Speaker A: Well, um, I do enjoy radio because it's sort of more immediate and, of course. But now everything is like radio. I mean, when I find I worked in print, then I worked in radio, then I worked in tv and you had to sort of do that then. Nowadays you can just do a course on TV and get straight into television. But in those days, you had to really work hard to get into tv. And when I got into tv, it was so cumbersome because when I. It was so long ago it was film and then it was tapes, but you had to have a crew and you had to get on with them and you had to get everything sorted and it was really. It was really cumbersome. I mean, there were no digital captions. You know, everything was. Took ages. And when I first got into tv, I said to some of my friends, well, I feel as though I've finally qualified to run in the Olympics, but they've just tied bricks to my ankles. Just felt like that. I mean, I'd been rushing about Being, um. Um, a newspaper reporter. Then I rushed about being a radio reporter, recording things and editing it myself. And then you get to TV and it's all other people doing stuff to get things on. Um, so. But. But I did end up presenting the political and industrial program, the weekly program. I was the first woman to do it for, um, in the Northeast, for Tyne Tees. And, um, I really enjoyed that. It's lovely having your own show. And I really wish. I think I should have another one now. The Rolls show, you know.

Speaker B: I think so too. Yeah.

Speaker D: Yes, I think so. Oh, like that.

Speaker A: When.

Speaker D: When we get onto what comes next. So what was the moment, or perhaps should I say the motivation that made you start your own business?

Speaker A: Well, I think it's interesting that, um. It's funny. I mean, uh, your life. When your life doesn't go according to plan, you just have to find a new plan. So my husband, who I met when I was reporting and reading the news and presenting for Tyne Tees in Newcastle, we had come down to London and he was working for Thames tv and then it lost its ITV franchise. So with a couple of colleagues, we decided we would set up our company, TV News London. And the idea was to offer news reporting services with reporters and camera operators to ITV and BBC newsrooms outside London. So we covered stories in London which were relevant to the regions outside London. For example, sort of court cases or press conferences or interviews with local MPs, or any story that had a relevance to, say, Leicester or Swansea or anywhere you can think of, but that they didn't want to have the expense of sending their reporter to London. And then we sent the unedited footage to the newsrooms and they edited into items for their local TV programs. I mean, the most interesting one, I did that. I did an interview for one of the Welsh TV stations for htv, with Shirley Bassey. Um, and that was good fun. Of course, the thing is, I didn't get the credit. The presenter got the credit because they edited it as though it was their presenter who'd done it. I didn't mind, though. It was so interesting, you know, to. To meet her and. And also she's quite prickly and quite difficult because she has been a megastar. And, um, the thing was, um. She, uh. She sort of. I mean, because I was a little bit older at that point. I wasn't like 21. You know, I was probably about 35 or something. I mean, she knew I would have heard of her, you know.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, when you think about it, Shirley Bassey should have been an absolute worldwide star like some of them are now. I mean, she. She did do tours in Australia, but anyway. But the point is, I enjoyed that. But, um, the other thing, I, um. So I enjoyed having my own show. Well, um, but we also, of course, when we set up the media training was because I had got into training and I started running some journalism courses for a local FE college, further education college. And the way I got into training, which is a form of teaching. Yes. Was. Was that when I was. When I was a young mum, I had young children, I worked as a freelance journalist in tv, radio and print. And I had, um. One of the things I did was I had a column in a national women's magazine, Options, older listeners will remember Options. But this nice little monthly retainer just went away very suddenly when a new editor came in after a couple of years and she changed the magazine and dropped my column and she dropped a lot of things. It's just one of those things that happens when new editors come in and want to bring in their own ideas. So I had a gap in my income and my husband said, why don't you write to the local FE colleges and see if they need any journalism training? So I did and got absolutely no response. And of course I sent a letter. This is ages ago as well. And then two months later I got a phone call out of the blue and this, uh, nice woman on the other end of the phone said, well, I'm from Barnet College and, you know, you wrote to us. Well, our radio journalism trainer is now flat on his back with a slip disc. So can you start next week?

Speaker D: Wow.

Speaker A: So I did, and I was running part of, um, an A level course for students and also an adult education course in an evening course. So I did that for a couple of years. Not before my cousin, the university lecturer phoned me up and said, not teaching, eh? See? Got you in the end.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's true.

Speaker A: So, anyway, I've been doing that. And so, um, my husband said, well, you can do the media training, you can tell people how to do interviews, which of course we could. And as we've learned a lot since then, we now know exactly how to tell people how to do media interviews. That's what TV News London does, as well as presenting training and executive presence.

Speaker D: Okay, so you brought it all together. So when we were prepping for a shot for the show, you often talked about the visual economy and the skills people now need to be aware of and make use of. So what did you mean by that?

Speaker A: Well, basically, the visual economy and the visual revolution is what we're all living in right now. I mean, everybody has to do online meetings. You even have to do them on WhatsApp with your family, let alone on WhatsApp with business and on Zoom and teams and all sorts of things. Um, we have photo and videos on our phones. We're on social media with pictures, gaming, the Metaverse. Everything is visual. And you need to know how. I mean, the kids all know this. They're sort of brought up with it. It's quite amazing how much they know. But you need to know how to look professional when you're on screen. And, um, I'm amazed. I mean, at the start of COVID this all happened with COVID of course, we suddenly boomed into being online, didn't we? But, uh, uh, I was. I'm still amazed by the fact I still see people who are sitting at the bottom of the screen or not in the middle or got terrible lighting or not. I mean, this is what they don't understand. That was a visual economy. And even if it's an informal sort of meeting, obviously you couldn't do a presentation like that.

Speaker D: But if.

Speaker A: If you. Even if it's an informal sort of meeting, you've still got to look professional, haven't you?

Speaker B: Uh, yes.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say so. Even if it's the fact that loads of people every five minutes are taking pictures of you on the screen. Right. So you don't actually want the top of your head. Because I know that, you know, when I'm talking to some people often, oh, we must take a picture, you know, to say that we were here and, uh, have I got any lipstick on? Have I got my face, my hair combed? You know, that sort of thing. So even that is a driving force for me to comb my hair, I must admit. So, moving on, though, you have also spoken about how picture phones, video technology, and changes in the way we communicate have made visual skills far more important in business. So why do you think that shift matters so much now?

Speaker A: Well, I think, you see, it's happened gradually, but, I mean, it started off in the year 2000 when sharp and Samsung built in digital cameras onto phones, and that was just pictures. And then we moved on to video, then we moved on to live streaming, and then we moved more and more on social media, and suddenly everyone's in vision. And as I said, the younger people, they expect to be in vision, so it's not difficult for them. But for everybody else, we just aren't, um. Brought up with it. And we just don't know what the grammar of television is really. And that's what's happened. I mean, probably, um, why I wrote my book. I had the idea I should write a book about 10 years ago and sort of got moving about six or seven years ago. Luckily for me, Covid happened not for everybody, but, you know, it was lucky because Covid changed everything. The whole visual thing just went boom. Suddenly we're all on Zoom. And then teams sort of caught up and Google came in third, didn't they? But I mean, you know, we're all sort of suddenly on, um, on Zoom and suddenly we're all online. And I suddenly realized that lots of people have, as I said before, no idea about how to, how to frame themselves, how to look good on screen. Because the difference with being on screen, as we explain to people when we're media training them, is that if you're doing a media interview now and you don't have to go into the studio, you used to have to go to what's called a remote studio, so it's linked to the program remotely. Now you just sit at your desk and you talk to the camera and, uh, well, first of all, you have to talk to the camera as well. You mustn't, you mustn't talk to anything else because that's another thing. It's terrible in a meeting, isn't it as well, where you look in a meeting and you want to talk to the last person who spoke. If you do that, it looks odd because you're looking down.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, it's very, it's all a different world and it really important that everybody understands that you really do need to have your visual skills as well.

Speaker D: Do, uh, you know, Ross, this is fascinating what we're going to do. We're to going to take a short break and then Valerie is going to come back to continue the conversation. Be right back.

Speaker B: Welcome back, everyone. Let's continue with Ros's journey. Ros, we met maybe 10 years ago, maybe a bit more at a networking event, but since then we've had COVID lockdowns and so much has changed as we've already talked about. What do you think has shifted most in your media world before and after? Ah, the pandemic, particularly in areas like crisis media training.

Speaker A: Well, I think first to take the point about the pandemic, during COVID everything changed. Everyone suddenly had to get online, get hold of Zoom to start with. I mean, before that, of course, we were on Skype, remember?

Speaker B: That, yes, I do.

Speaker A: Before the pandemic, I worked out in the sort of five years before the pandemic, when we had Skype, I'd probably done about five courses that were online and they were all with people abroad, nothing in the uk. Suddenly you're doing this with people in the uk, um, and you're having to have all your meetings. We had to change to doing training online and it just all changed. And as I said, it was quite lucky with writing my book because if I'd written the book before, it would have been out of date by then, you know, and it wouldn't have been quite so visual either, you know, I mean. But, um, actually, everything changed during COVID and we suddenly realized as a company that we know lots of stuff that other people don't, uh, which is the skills you need to be able to perform on screen. I mean, I had noticed about 10 years before, as I said, that things from TV were all creeping into business. I mean, you've had, uh, top people would read autocue at conferences, which comes from tv. You had videos everywhere at, uh, product launches and so on and all that. But then of course, it went on to, um, uh, and people putting videos online. Suddenly you've got online, you've got live streaming. There's just videos everywhere. It's just everything. And lots of people have been brought up not to be any good at videos. They think, so they've had to learn how to do it. And especially if you've got a small business, you do need to know how to get yourself online, don't you, on screen. You need to know about social media and how you can market yourself. Um, it's a whole set of skills that people need, because it isn't. Anyone can shoot a cat video or a baby video, but you can't. Anyone can't shoot a business video.

Speaker B: Yeah, very true. And particularly, as you say, the crisis media training.

Speaker A: Oh, yes. Well, the thing is, that's the other point. All this technology means that crises just move faster than ever, incredibly fast. And if you don't get a statement out almost not instantaneously, but within, you know, half an hour of a crisis, going big as a news story or going big on social media, you're going to get left behind. Because the whole thing about crisis media training and handling a crisis is, uh, that you need to seize the narrative. You need to put your view out there as to what's happened. And of course, with social media, there's so many opportunities for people to stick anything out there. You Know, I mean, yeah, it's interesting that the. The government now puts out statements really quickly on things. Police put out footage of them arresting people and they put out. They put out statements much quicker. I mean, they never used to want to say anything, but now they. They have to or it gets worse, doesn't it?

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker A: That's the same for businesses. You need to seize the narrative and get your view out there, even if people don't agree with it, at least it's there.

Speaker B: Yeah. Seize the moment. So, Ros, you've emphasized that many professionals still lack what you call the grammar of tv. What does that really mean, the grammar of tv?

Speaker A: Well, the thing is, in my book, I point out, uh, that we were all brought up in a text economy. We learned how to spell and read and write and spell and. And write properly and write business stuff and write. You know, we all learned about text. But now we have to communicate visually as well. And the grammar of TV is that you need to know how to frame your shot, what you have to do. In order to be able to do an effective interview or a presentation in a meeting, you need to sit in the middle of the screen, you need to be properly lit, you know, get a ring light like the influencers have. You know, they don't cost much. Yes, they're only about 20 quid on Amazon, the cheapest. And they're perfectly all right. Get a good microphone. You need to, you know, really. And a good camera. Um, you need to do all that, because if you don't. The grammar of TV means now that when you used to go to a remote studio, everything was done for you. You just had to worry about talking to the camera and saying the right things. Now you've not only got to worry about what you say and how you say it, but you've also got to worry about your lighting, your framing, everything about your shot. You have to be the spokesperson and the producer, uh, and the director. It's quite challenging when you think about

Speaker B: it, when you put the job titles end to end. Yes, it is a little bit, isn't it, Ross?

Speaker D: Never thought of that.

Speaker B: No, neither did I. But actually it's true, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, m. So we must recap and talk about your book, the Visual Revolution Guidebook. So we know how long it took you to write it, but why did you write it?

Speaker A: Oh, well, because I thought, I've been doing this for a long time. I had a lot to tell people and we set up the company because we want to improve communications. You know, we were doing the tv, but then nowadays it's only communications. I should point out, we used to do all this news as well, but of course, newsrooms ran out of money. And, of course, that's the other point about what's now called the legacy media, that all the newspapers and magazines and, um, radio and TV have all got less money and all the advertising is on social media. Um, that's where the money is. So I felt that people were sort of sitting there in this visual revolution, but they weren't realizing that they needed a whole set of new skills. And I've, uh, got. I can tell them what to do.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: That makes huge sense. Ros, I worked in the newspaper world. It feels like a million years ago. So your journey and your experience really fascinate me. And I've seen some of that world from the inside. And when you look back across it all, what have you enjoyed the most and what makes you most proud?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, I don't. Well, um, I love finding stories. I mean, it's not just covering stuff that people ask you to look at or someone's announcing or whatever, actually finding a story. And I remember years ago, when I worked on the Observer, a friend of mine who was then a social worker, she told me, you won't believe it, but councils are putting homeless people into bed and breakfast hotels. And I checked this out with a few councils and then I had an exclusive in the observer about what we called the bed and breakfast homeless. And that story went worldwide. And that was the first time anyone had written about it. So I'm proud of that one. And sadly, of course, it hasn't got any better. That's the trouble. Um, you know, we've still got the problem of people being put in bed and breakfast, which is a real problem. But then I also. Well, I've covered a whole load of stories. Uh, you know, it's very difficult when people ask you, what stories do you like the best? I'll tell you one thing that I did do, which is still haunts me now, forgive the pun, and that is I did do a documentary about the Enfield Poltergeist.

Speaker B: I think what I liked about it, particularly when I was working in it in the late 70s, early 80s, was the fact they had so much buzz. It was challenging, it was dynamic, there were some real characters around, they were funny. Yeah, well, I've got a heap of stories like that, most of which, ladies and gentlemen, you can't listen to right now.

Speaker A: I mean, I was just going to say that, um. Yes, but I think that's the point. When I said that in university, I sort of realized, as we would say now I've found my tribe. I found the sort of people I like working with and everything. And of course, when I was working originally in print and then radio and tv, they were the dominant media, which they're not now. I mean, they're still important, but they're not now. So it was extremely exciting and interesting. But the other thing is there were a lot of, you know, there were setbacks and there were difficulties. And it only occurred to me about a few years ago that it never occurred to me to give up. I'd found my thing. I just thought these people are in my way, you know, like the news editor who, you know, my brilliant career. Like the news editor who sent me home from wearing trousers to work. I just thought, you know, I mean, it, uh, didn't stop me, you know, M. Nothing was gonna stop me. And I just had this huge drive to want to do my best in that. And M. I think you.

Speaker B: Which is why I think you need

Speaker A: that you need to find a job where you really, really like doing it. And therefore you want to get up in the morning and do things, don't you?

Speaker B: Correct. Absolutely. Energized motivation. Tell me, what would you say to your younger self?

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker D: Ah.

Speaker A: Well, I had to think about this when you said you might ask this. Um. Um. Well, I'm an only child, so I was very used to doing things on my own and taking on a lot of responsibility. And I would say to people, when you set up your own business, and also when you're in a, uh, corporate setting, learn how to ask other people for help. Will save you a lot of bother. I think that's important. And then the other thing is, when I was. I was vice president of City Women's Network at one point, and networking is very, very important. Very, very important.

Speaker D: Well, you've hit on two things there that I've actually never thought of. Networking. I'm learning, you know, I'm not going to lie. Right.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker D: Because again, it's coming out of, um, corporate. You don't. To say that you don't have to network. It sounds awful, but it's true.

Speaker A: It's never one of those things that

Speaker D: was up on my mind. But learning how to ask for help I think is quite important. So that, to me is something, um, that I will take away from this session, this talk with you, because that's

Speaker A: not an easy thing to do. Yeah. No, you have to learn how to do it. Um, but it's so important. You could save so much bother. Of course, nowadays you can get AI to help you with research and so on, but you still, I think, got to be very careful how you use AI because, I mean, I've looked some things up where I know this is completely wrong. They've hit on the wrong person. You look up people, it sometimes picks the wrong person and tells you the wrong life story. So you've got to be quite careful about what you do. Um, but I do think.

Speaker D: But in some ways, that's like asking the wrong person about something as well. You might think that they're the right person. So it's all in the way of what you want to know and, uh, how you're going to use the information. And then you kind of ask the question, perhaps to the right person and in the right way. Yes, you know, that's the way I use. You know, that's the way I see AI as well. But it's there. The thing is, it's there as a. As another tool in our boxes. They say, you know, that we can ask questions to.

Speaker A: Well, I think another point I'd make is that we do the media. Media training, helping people with interviews. Media interviews. We also do the presentation training and public speaking training with a lot of top people as well as lesser. So just. But not lesser. But, you know, people who aren't at the top yet.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But, um.

Speaker B: Or in the public eye so much.

Speaker D: Um.

Speaker A: But, um, we also do executive presence. I have a wonderful woman who trains people how to make the most of their presence, how to walk onto a stage and look like. How to walk into a meeting and look like a boss. And it's a lot of women who have a problem with that, you know, they don't do. And of course, part of it is very difficult because it's. Although it isn't so much nowadays, I think it's still there, what used to be there, that if a woman did anything, people thought it was odd, you know, and so the people still aren't used to seeing women as leaders, not entirely. So women just don't think, oh, I'll just hang back a bit.

Speaker D: So.

Speaker A: But if you have the presence to be able to. To go into a room and, um, you have the calmness and the way of standing and so on, that makes people, you know, think, oh, she looks like the boss. That's really important.

Speaker B: I, um, was going to say, Ros, you know, thank you for inspiring and educating us about the media world which is so fast moving 247 as we know and such a demanding industry. Thank you for sharing your business book with us. Of course Julia will get her book when I see her in a couple of weeks but she will. And if to our audience if Ros's story has resonated with you, please like comment and share this episode with colleagues and others who would benefit. We've loved this conversation and all that Ros has shared with us. So keep listening to the secrets of learning and development. Thank you. Thank you Rose.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you Roz.

Speaker C: Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes. If you enjoyed this one we would appreciate it if you could leave us a review as uh it helps others find the show. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to exploring more secrets of learning and development with you next time. Until then, keep learning and stay curious.