From Cancer Research to ADHD Girls: Dr Samantha Hiew’s Remarkable Journey

Speaker A: Just before we dive in, a quick moment to say, we won.

Speaker B: The Secrets of Learning and Development has officially been named Podcast of the year 2025. And we're still smiling. We didn't create this podcast with awards in mind. We started it because we love real conversations about growth, challenge, leadership and learning.

Speaker A: But this award, it tells us that those conversations are landing, that they matter. So if you've been listen, listening, sharing, joining as a guest, thank you. Let's get into today's episode and keep that conversation going.

Speaker C: I was diagnosed with ADHD and then found out I was autistic and realized how it is so much more common inside a community of, um, women who have encountered similar experiences to me. There were also some other professional relationship issues at work where, um, my PhD supervisor decided to take a liking on me and that ended up in a series of, um, sexual harassment complaints. I had that 10 years of existential crisis and I went through 16 different industries, you know, trying every different career. But it was only until when I created my own that I started doing the things that I really love. So many neurodivergent women, especially those who lean autistic as well, autistic ADHD reappear on the surface like neurotypical women like we are. We can be so capable. It's refreshing to be able to live for me, uh, in my 40s and now it's um, I think anyway that this is the me that I want to bring into my work. I don't want to be masking because, um, I want to connect authentically.

Speaker A: So what does life feel like now that you're showing up as your full self?

Speaker C: It is terrifying and oh, so liberating.

Speaker D: Welcome to Secrets of Learning and Development, the podcast where we explore the insights, trends and hidden gems that shape the future of personal and organizational growth. Join your hosts, Valerie and Julia as they uncover the secrets of successful learning and development. Featuring expert interviews and practical tips for executives and professionals. Whether you are seeking the latest training techniques, leadership advice, or ways to build a learning culture, this podcast is your guide to, um, unlocking the potential within yourself and your organization. Get ready for a journey into the world of learning and development. Now here's Valerie and Julia to start today's episode.

Speaker B: Welcome to the award winning Secrets of Learning and Development. I'm, um, Julia Bend, executive coach and founder of Premier Coaching. And I'm joined by my wonderful co host, Valerie Merrill, training professional and founder of Merrill Consultants. Together we bring you conversations with guests who have stories worth hearing. And Today's guest is one of them.

Speaker A: Hello and welcome everyone. Dr. Samantha Hugh has walked an extraordinary path, one that defies convention and challenges assumptions. She began her career in cancer research, completed a PhD and went on to work in science communications before navigating a deeply personal journey of self discovery. After a late diagnosis of ADHD and autism, she founded ADHD Girls, a social impact company on a mission to empower neurodivergent women to thrive in education, healthcare and the workplace.

Speaker B: She is a speaker, writer, commercial model, advocate and parent. And what connects all of it is her ability to humanise complex topics and speak truthfully about what it means to live and lead authentically. Whether you are familiar with neurodiversity or still learning, Samantha's story invites reflection, sparks empathy and offers a rare kind of clarity. Samantha, Sam, welcome to the podcast. We are so pleased to have you here.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. It's been amazing knowing you. Totally created like something else out of the bio that I gave you. Thank you. Thank you. So personal.

Speaker A: Our pleasure, Our pleasure.

Speaker B: Well, we haven't created something else, we've created you. This is all a you.

Speaker C: That's you. You made it sound so much better.

Speaker B: I doubt it. You are good anyway, Samantha. Your background spans science, writing, modeling M and advocacy. But where did your professional journey begin and what are, uh, those early career years like? What were, sorry, those early career years like for you?

Speaker C: Thank you so much for the introduction. I began my career in cancer research. I spent a good decade really obsessed with trying to figure out the solutions for cancer. And it was, when I look back, it was really largely began when I was 16 and I was reading stories of cancer survivors and how getting the diagnosis made everyone reassess their life priorities. And I think what it really was was I was gripped by the story. And then that story made me want to do something to improve outcomes, you know, for those who live with the condition. And, uh, there was a time where I was so obsessed by it that people just couldn't understand and, and even I couldn't really understand sometimes, you know, why I'm so obsessed about something that I just single, um, mindedly focus on that. And that brought me to the UK to, uh, complete my postgraduate degree. And I did go through some interesting discoveries along the way. And I think it was largely to do with, you know, the workplace and the, uh, academia not being very accessible to a neurodivergent way of being. I found it quite hard to just manage day in and day out in a dark research lab by myself without any accountability, so. And there were Also some other professional relationship issues at work where, um, the PhD supervisor decided to take a liking on me. And that ended up in a series of, um, sexual harassment complaint that, uh, yeah, at the time was, was really hard to deal with and could never understood why. Even if I knew something wasn't right or the person wasn't right, I couldn't act on it, you know. And years later, after I was diagnosed with ADHD and then found out I was autistic and realized how it is so much more common inside the community of, um, women who have encountered similar experiences. To me, uh, it really brought a lot self awareness and self compassion, you know. Now I pretty much channel all this. I mean, it's not just the science or, um, you know, the communication. It was the life lessons that I've learned from being a neurodivergent girl to a woman and try and really equip younger women or women around my age these days to come back to themselves and really own that, that voice that they have, you know, inside them. And sometimes we may just need someone to bring that out of us or encourage us to give us that push. And I, I'm so attuned to imbalanced power dynamics now inside relationships because of how I had been in that opposite end where there was power over me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I'm, I'm really sensitive to that now. And now I just call that out straight away or learn to walk away if something like that, you know, is felt.

Speaker B: Yeah. So at, uh, one point you were invited to Harvard. Looking back, was that a pivotal moment for you? What did you decide?

Speaker C: So it's really interesting when I was going through my last year of my PhD, because I already swapped supervisor by that point, and I had, you know, those few years were dark ages. And my dad's supervisor didn't really believe in me because, I mean, I don't really blame him. I was drinking a lot and purging, you know, and that wasn't really conducive to doing a PhD. And then he was just like, well, that person in the lab is a scientist. You're not.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And I was like, great, thank you. And you know, when you're younger, you just believe, right, that he's smart. I'm going to believe it, that I'm no good. And it really didn't need much convincing. But then on the wayside, what I was really, really good at was spotting patterns, making connections. And I was, um, writing to academics that I've met, uh, years ago in conferences. And you know, I was always really interested in finding out the truth about something, whether it was in cancer research, and at the time it was cervical cancer research. And so I got connected to this, uh, professor who works in Boston in, um, a women's hospital actually, and in Harvard. And he said to me, sam, um, I want you to come and interview for a postdoctoral research position. And when you told me that I was, I. I was just going to finish my PhD, and. And by that point I was thinking, oh, but my dental wiser thought that I was no good, you know, So I lost the confidence in myself and I told this Harvard professor that I'm. I'm sorry, I think I'm going to try and do something else because I'm not sure I can stay in science anymore. And he told me, like, and I told him why, you know, and he said to me he had the same experience with his school, uh, teacher, telling me that he was never going to amount to anything in his life. He was going to be a bin man. And. Yeah, and he said if he had listened to that, he won't end up where he is now. And. And I was like, that is so inspiring. But, you know, when m. When you just don't have the drive anymore to stay in something because of, like, everything that's happened, I just thought I needed just completely new start and. And I was scared. I was really traumatized from the whole experience. And all I really wanted was a safe place, something, you know, that I know is not going to change. And I couldn't deal with the changes, so I just went into medical writing. And that was, um, yeah, the start of this existential crisis that lasted over a decade.

Speaker A: Wow. A decade. Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So you have, um, spoken about feeling like you did not quite fit in at work. That sense of what's wrong with me before you had the diagnosis. So what are some of the challenges that you faced during that time, both professionally and personally?

Speaker C: I think, uh, on a professional level, I mean, being a scientist actually really quite suits someone who thinks and works solitarily. But I think without a really good direction, without really understanding why, you know, we're doing something, and often we don't. But then when you start doing a, uh, PhD, you kind of often work with someone who then you come up with a research project together. But then my research didn't make sense. And when it didn't make sense, I was just like, what am I doing here? And, um, I, I did get good results helping someone else with their research because they were very directed and. But then yeah. And then that lack of accountability. Right. You are coming in and you're trying to test something. But then one. One thing also that I. I realized wasn't just me, is when I recently spoke to a friend of mine who was a scientist, and it's. It's around creating chemical solutions that you need for experiments in a lab. And I don't always know why I'm doing things a certain way, but now I know, actually, it's like you have to follow a protocol, but we are very much like, oh, let's wing it here. But if you wing it, it doesn't work. And so that wasn't just me, I realized. So it's a neurodivergent thing. And then another thing was, um, there was some level of bullying going on in the lab because of, uh, what people suspected about my supervisor fancying me.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And then so, quite interestingly, instead of going against him, they decide to question me. You know, I was at the time maybe 24 years old.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And perhaps seen as an adult, but in my mind, I was a child. It was my first time away from home. And very, um, embarrassingly, up until the point where I left to come to England, I'd never been on a plane, so. Oh, really? Yeah. I live a very sheltered existence. So I was in for a baptism of fire coming into the uk and, yeah, just a bit. Yeah. It's really cold. And what am I doing?

Speaker A: Where am I?

Speaker C: Where are people? You know, we look like me.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Absolute culture shock.

Speaker B: Yeah. I had a friend that came over recently from abroad as well, and she goes, how many layers can I actually put on not to feel cold in the uk? I understand that.

Speaker C: And you don't realize you have to get the coat one size bigger when you have the layers inside this huge Michelin person, you know?

Speaker B: Uh, absolutely. Right. So you received your ADHD and autism diagnosis during the pandemic. Right. So that's about probably six years ago. So what prompted you to seek it out and how did it reshape your understanding of yourself?

Speaker C: The hindsight is a beautiful thing, but at the time, I didn't realize that after giving birth to my second child, it was a hormonal crash that really brought on the mental health challenges that I had with postnatal anxiety and depression. I guess I was very surprised by myself when I started to act quite impulsively, and I invested, uh, for the first time, um, very impulsively. I was always so careful with my money. And then I decided to do some investments during the pandemic everyone was doing it, everyone was at home and I end up losing a lot of money. So I was like, what is going on with me? I've never been like that before. And that, that impulsivity is so strange and so akin to my 20s. And by then I was 40, you know, so, so that brought on a lot of questioning who I am, what am I doing, and then stumbling upon an Instagram account talking about adhd. And actually that was so common. Like so many people were diagnosed by TikTok or social media. Yeah. But luckily for me, in this case, I was actually truly, authentically adhd, you know, but, um, yeah, that brought on the diagnosis and I managed to.

Speaker B: You recognized that. Yeah, you were recognizing patterns in your own behavior that prompted you to think, you know, to question yourself and you know, to go and get, uh, a, uh, proper diagnosis. So when you reflect on everything that you have navigated from academia to parenting, writing and speaking, what actually stands out as a real turning point for you?

Speaker C: It's so interesting because when you're in it, you don't see it, but then when you come out of it, because I had that 10 years of existential crisis and I went through 16 different industries, you know, trying every different career. But it was only until when I created my own company that I started doing the things that I really love, that I was naturally really good at. And the first thing I did was creating a podcast and I interviewed other women and elevated their stories. And it was timing as well, so bringing everything that I've learned together, whether it was, uh, it was started with communications, you know, trying to do my own research, and eventually it was actually my knowledge in science that really made me stand, you know, apart from everyone, because I was able to draw on the science that I read in clinical and scientific papers and then match it to the lived experience and use empathy to communicate those experiences.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker B: I like your curious mind, I have to say. Right. I really do like your curious mind. Yeah, I do, I do like that. But, um, this is a fascinating conversation and we're going to take a short break and when we come back, Valerie is going to continue and we'll learn all about the ADHD Girls.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Welcome back everyone. Let's continue. So Sam, you launched ADHD Girls. How did your diagnosis influence that decision? And what was your vision when you started?

Speaker C: It was a different vision when I started. I wanted to make a documentary on ADHD in women. And yeah, that's, that's um, yeah, hit a lot of roadblocks because I'm not a director or a producer or a camera person, so I just knew I wanted to tell a story. I wanted to tell a story. And I received knockback from BBC, of course, you know, and then I decided, hey, we're in an age of social media. I can make my own documentary, as in I can write, make my own videos. And I started with a podcast, and that reached so much quicker. And then it was so interesting because then I started to see a different way of doing things. So instead of, you know, doing the type of research that I did in the lab that took about 10 years to get to the people, or, or, or to improve people's occupation outcomes, I could do my own research through a survey and then launch it within a month. Yep. And that's what I did. I, I was one of the first few people actually who actually cared to do the lived experience research. And I launched a survey for, you know, what ADHD individuals need in the workplace. And we had so many responses, and that really got everyone to notice that our lived experience is so important. I created a conference, uh, called ADHD Best Practice Conference, where I think that was one of the first ones. And then after that I got loads of invitations to speak in different organizations. And then, so within the last four years, I have spoken to over hundred footsie companies, and then also I have a tab on community work where I spoke to over a hundred thousand people today in public events and also, um. Yeah, but in all sorts of settings. But in these events, I'm constantly surprised that every year there are hordes of people coming forward to look for a diagnosis and trying to figure out what it means.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. Uh, absolutely. And you've said that understanding your neurodivergence gave you permission to thrive. So obviously you're thriving with your conference. You're speaking what, uh, you know, in life and in work. What does that really mean for you now or look like?

Speaker C: For you, the thriving for me now looks like health comes first. But for a really long time, I was driven by this mission, a dual mission. And this is an obsession, the same way I had that obsession with cancer research. I stopped at nothing. And, um, nothing stopped me. And so I just kept going. And when I couldn't get my autism, um, diagnosis, perhaps the first three times, I launched my own research where I wanted to find out what autistic ADHD women's experience were like. And that's when I realized it looked nothing like pure ADHD and pure autism. And so the diagnostic criteria were not fit for purpose. So that research actually then informed a community event where over 200 people came to a theater in Twickenham to listen to me share the results. And um, all of them were women because, you know, it was mainly women who were misdiagnosed, mistreated. But I'm not saying other people aren't. But we faced that extra barrier that the research wasn't made by for us. So we won't be found and won't be supported in the right way. So from then on, I created the ADHD Women's Advanced Practitioner Program. It's called DSM 5 criteria through a scientific and intersectional lens. And um, I've been training mental health professionals ever since. And that's a bit of a maneuver from working at neurodiversity at work into focusing back on the community, trying to support people through identity work, you know, and adhd, medication, titration, health and well being, their lives, you know, the choices and also, uh, the women's journey.

Speaker A: And I was going to say, is this the tool that you mention that you're developing? A tool to help neurodivergent women advocate for themselves in healthcare settings?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: You know, so what kind of difference will you hope it will make or do you expect it to make?

Speaker C: So I've been mulling about this for so long. I've been planning behind the scenes. What I hope that it makes is taking the data that we have inside pockets of community that we all know, but we can't seem to advocate for ourselves effectively in healthcare setting. So I'm going to take this concept and put it into a platform that measures the community insights and then publish that research and disseminate that in my talks so that people have a model to, you know, practice more um, effectively and also women will be believed. So I'm hoping to shift the power back to the women and give them the upper hand inside appointments where they're disbelieved.

Speaker A: Ah. Uh, okay. So many of our listeners work in HR, L&D and or leadership roles. What would you want them to know or do differently to create genuinely inclusive spaces for neurodivergent professionals?

Speaker C: The first thing that comes to my mind is that so many neurodivergent women, especially those who lean autistic as well, autistic adhd. We appear on the surface like neurotypical women, like we are, we can be so capable, so uh, high achieving. But um, the energy expansion comes from masking.

Speaker A: Okay, high functioning and masking.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And then that leads to burnout quietly quiet burnout on the inside that leads to people leaving the workplace. So if you are an L and D professional hater, really look into supporting someone not through the old lens of productivity but through energy based productivity. You know, really try and understand how your people excel throughout the day. What are their pockets of uh, productivity period. And you know, maybe encourage them to work flexibly whilst giving them accountability.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: How much of that also lands in with the responsibility of the individual who is neurodivergent? Because I mean if I'm just going to play devil's advocate, organizations are there to support their, their employees. And that's true. And they're, and they need to have them to deliver the work that they've been allocated to do. But in some instances they might not recognize their neurodivergent staff. Um, they just, it's a personality and it's a behavior that you know, they have. I was, I was just wondering is, you know, is it the responsibility of the individual to sort of in a safe space, you know, open it up and say this is what I'm, you know, I'm self aware of myself and I've been diagnosed with, you know, ADHD or autism, you know, so in some ways I will work differently. You know, can I appreciate your support. Does some of that responsibility lie with the individual as well as the organization to support them?

Speaker C: I'm smiling as you say that. Uh, I totally hear you. I've heard the context. I've been on radio interviews where the presenters are like, is it right that people just take their employers to tribunal when they didn't even know that they have adhd? So I was like, okay, we're looking at the generational differences. So there are going to be women probably around my age or you know, younger or even older who will take it upon ourselves to do everything and work, you know, till we drop. And we would hope for, you know, support but maybe we don't feel entitled to it. So we're going to need some level of co creation, you know, where people are going to recognize that we are going to need support with pacing. And then you're going to have perhaps a younger generation who would uh, potentially feel like I can only stay in a place that nourishes my well being and then that may lean the power dynamics towards one side. So again we're looking at that. What does each generation come with in terms of what they expect? Can we tailor our approach to this cross section? Because it's like the problem is that HR&L&D. Solutions are tailored to be cookie cutters, you know, really not exactly individualized. And we are dealing with people. When you're dealing with people, you're going to need some level of flexibility. But I generally think it's a co creation and um, people will disclose if they feel safe to do so. But unfortunately in the last few years there's been, you know, so many new neurodiversity initiatives and more companies actually haven't had any. So most, most are not disclosing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think it's, I do agree that it's a co creation and I think it's a safe space to enable people to feel that they can, they can actually speak to, um, their managers or whoever. And then I think it is also the responsibility of the company to support the individual as well. But it is going to be very difficult to support the individual if they don't really fully understand the underlying, the underlying issue really.

Speaker A: But there's so much around education and awareness and although there is a lot, a lot about that, I think it's just understanding the people that you work with or who work for you or however you want to, you know, associates, collaboration, whatever, and how best they like to work and understanding and working together in it. Ah, to get, to get a good balance for everyone. I mean, I'm, I'm quite, I'm, I have to say I'm quite a driven person. So I will literally work until I drop as well. Julia. I don't know if Julie's really seen that in me, but I am, I am, I'm. I'm really driven. So, um, and I, I, and I recognize that. And some days I go, no, you can't do any more today, Timmy. You've got to stop. You've got to stop. You've got to just wind down.

Speaker B: But, uh, how much of that. The question is, is how much of that is. You're a driven person. You can be driven, but how much of that is down to being neurodivergent? So that's the thing. And we don't know. Well, exactly, because that I don't, I don't consider you are. But m. My point would be, is if you knew you were right, then how then would I best. As if we're talking about me being, um, supporting you. I wouldn't know. I'd just say she's driven and she does like to, to, you know, to get things out the way. She's, she's like, uh, that impatient. I'll let her get on with It. But actually what is happening is that, uh, that's the way, if you like, that's how you are made up and you are. You have this issue, and I need to support that. But if you don't know, or if you know and you choose not to say, then how does that work? You know what I mean? I'll let you get on with it and do it and, uh, burn out. Yeah. Right. But really, I wouldn't want to do that because I just think that that's the way you are. But actually, if there's something else underlying, it would have been brilliant to know. To support that. You know, that's how. That's how, um, I would interpret it. But it's good to know that we're actually got people like Samantha. Right. That's highlighting this issue. Right. And hopefully our listeners can say, look, you know what? It's okay. And it is okay. You know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having this neurodivergence as long as you're self aware and as long as you're happy to then share it to a degree where, you know, it can then support the organization and yourself. You know, that's. I think that that's just a way forward.

Speaker A: And, um, what I. What I like as well, what stayed with us when we. We were talking earlier about you, is that you said you just wanted to be Sam, not a Persona, not performing. So what does life feel like now that you're showing up as your full self?

Speaker C: It is terrifying and also liberating. It's so interesting because I don't know if anyone ever really gets to the point where I can really talk about everything now without feeling, you know, scared. But I prefer it that way because I've had to suppress myself for so many years. I mean, inside relationships. Because I. I was, you know, like, kind of preconditioned to be seen and not heard and, uh, born with that, you know, uh, into a family that was quite chaotic. Large, uh, family. Being an eldest daughter, quite full of responsibility from a very young age.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: That I just, uh. It's refreshing to be able to live for me, uh, in my 40s and now it's, I think, anyway, that this is the me that I want to bring into my work. I don't want to be masking because, um, I want to connect authentically.

Speaker A: Sure. And I think most of us do m. That's what we aim for, don't we? It's part of our values. So what's next for Sam in work, in life, and in Purpose.

Speaker D: Whoo.

Speaker C: Whoo. Yeah. Uh, so interesting, um, interesting, I'm thinking, because I'm still training mental health professionals, uh, the coaches, therapists, um, psychiatrists, psychologists about autism and ADHD in women. And I really want to create systemic change. But at the same time, I'm contented with this, um, this thought that I have to show up as me, and I have to show up in a way that honors my energy because I've had some, um, health scares in the last few years, and. And I want to change the system. So I need to do it in a way that really honors that authenticity and the energy, and that is really hard for, you know, if, you know, as someone who works till their job. How do you do this? You know? Um, um. I have learned to create boundaries in the last year. Very new thing, a new muscle. And also reclaiming joy. Uh, I've learned to sing more. I brought singing, uh, into my community events where we do nervous system regulation. And I'm going to be creating a tool that will incorporate that, you know, bringing together the mission and nervous system safety. And I'm, uh, formulating a lot of things behind the scenes, very like, big vision. And I want it to be so visually pleasing, so sensory pleasing and calming so we can all hold on to it every day like a piece of comfort blanket. And on the side, a friend of mine is, uh, starting a music project, and he wants to bring me on board as a partner to look at how we can create music for communities that support the nervous system healing. So I'm very excited about that.

Speaker A: Wow. My God, you're so inspiring. I mean, the. The. The big vision, the big picture, all the trials and tribulations, everything that's been thrown at you, and the time, you know, the years of wow. I mean, heaven sakes.

Speaker B: She's doing with. The thing is, is that one of the things that you've said, you've mentioned and in previous guests have mentioned is that they want to bring joy into their space, um, as they. As they. Whatever it is, the space that they've gone. And you've actually said the same thing. So this is like a new theme that's coming, that everyone wants to bring the joy into the work that they do. And, um, and I think that that is. That is really good. Now, look, you said that you want to, you want to, um, it's terrifying, you know, coming out as Sam, right? Terrifying and liberating. But you can't get more liberated than being on our podcast, can you? So, therefore, well done. Don't I hope you weren't terrified about being on the podcast because it's absolutely brilliant to have you on there as well talking your story.

Speaker C: You are both so heartfelt and such brilliant conversationalists. It's so comforting being here.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, thank you. And to all, uh, our viewers and audience of the Secrets of Learning and Development podcast. If Sam's journey has resonated with you or any of the work that she's doing, her links will be in the show notes. Please do get in touch. Please do share this with somebody who you know will appreciate it or could gain some strength and curiosity from it and help from it. Thank you so much, Sam. We really appreciate it.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker D: Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes. If you enjoyed this one, we would appreciate it if you could leave us a review as it helps others find the show. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to exploring more Secrets of learning and development with you next time. Until then, keep learning and stay curious.