Retail Without Silos Featuring Curvy Kate, Blackcircles & Persi

Well, welcome to season 10 of the award-winning Retail Tea Break podcast. My name is Melissa Moore, The Retail Advisor. I'm a retail educator, trainer and retail conference MC, and each week as your host, I'll be joined by industry experts, retailers, and brands to dispel the myths, share their knowledge, and give you an insight into the retail industry. There's well over a hundred episodes now for you to listen back to on your favourite podcast platform.

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You'll get to read my take on each episode, extra learnings and lots more insights. So subscribe to the Retail Tea Break podcast on Substack today. In the meantime, them grab a cup of tea, sit back and enjoy season 10 of the glorious Retail Tea Break podcast. This episode of the Retail Tea Break podcast is a special eTail UK mashup featuring three of the very different businesses that you'll find at this year's event.

Curvy Kate, Blackcircles and Persi are all tackling the same challenge in their own way, creating more connected retail experiences. So from AI powered personalization and smarter customer discovery to breaking down silos between brand digital marketing teams to implementing AI across an entire organisation, but without losing that human touch. This episode is all about what modern retail looks like when teams, data and customer experiences finally start working together. So if you want to power your own growth, join us on the 16th and 17th of June at the Emirates Old Trafford Cricket Ground in Manchester, where I'll be MCing the whole two day event.

📍 Charlotte Crabb is brand marketing and digital director at Curvy Kate, a brand that has built a loyal community by championing inclusivity, customer connection, and body confidence long before it became an industry trend. So with a background spanning beauty, fashion, and digital first brands, including Net-a-Porter, Charlotte is now focused on bringing brand, marketing and digital together to create smarter, more connected customer experiences that balance creativity with commercial growth.

Charlotte, welcome to the Retail Tea Break podcast. Thank you. You make me sound great. I'm gonna come here more often on a Monday.

Oh, well then this is the way it should be. We'll get that blurb to follow you around everywhere. I love it. But you have this incredible experience.

You really do. And quite unusually, as I said at the beginning there, it's across brand, marketing and digital, which again, is, is not something that we kind of see tied together enough. Yeah. So when we talk in terms of bringing the brand, the digital and the marketing together.

Yeah. What changes when teams stop working in the silos that a lot of us are quite used to but actually start working together? Yeah. It's wild, right?

So I started my career, god, I feel old... it must have been like maybe 12 years ago now, at Missguided, which was obviously like a fast fashion, e-commerce brand. And I started there purely in E-com. So I did loads in terms of kind of like site optimization and understanding who the customer was, et cetera, et cetera.

And then as my experience has grown and I've taken on kind of more roles and more businesses, whether it's been like you mentioned Net-a-Porter or whether it's been British Gas, I've done a fair amount of beauty, I've been at Elemis, it's been really about understanding the customer full funnel. So I think when you have teams, you have typically you have like a digital and a trade team, or you'd have an e-comm team who are responsible for an element of the trading. And then you have a marketing team and then you typically have like brands that within marketing, I think what normally happens is you have a marketing team and a brand team who are sat typically creating beautiful content, that they are targeted on increasing loyalty or, you know, gaining brand awareness.

And then you have an e-comm team or a trading team that are purely focused on converting it. So fundamentally you then end up with like two different departments who are like, brand are like "we're sending you loads of traffic" and e-comm are going "well, yeah, but it's shit traffic and it's not converting." So fundamentally, I think where I've really seen a difference, and I've seen the difference kind of probably in the last five years of my career, has bringing that under one umbrella.

Because really when we focus on, you know, massive out of home campaigns like British Gas, for example, was a huge, huge spend out of home campaign. But fundamentally we worked really hard to understand what it was that customers actually wanted. So we, we really focused on answering a customer's problems. So at Curvy Kate it's very much about understanding who we're targeting, understanding what that creative element should then be, and then fundamentally delivering a top of funnel campaign.

So whether that's like out of home or whether that is, paid advertising or it's social content, or it's the content that see on the website or it goes an email, et cetera. It's all about being relatable and ensuring that we're fundamentally kind of using those assets as much as we can. And you've got a team that are collaborating and being like, yeah, that content is exactly what the customer wants to see, and it is telling the story from the very top of the funnel so that fundamentally you're not then kind of having to do really what is the selling part when they're landing on the website.

So the concept is that it should make that journey so much more seamless and actually not be a barrier to conversion, whereas historically it would be, it would normally be that. And on that then of course, like we still have to keep brand consistency through all of this, and I'm mindful that like retail is now moving at this incredibly, almost ridiculous pace right now. We have to be so agile, but as you said there, we've gotta keep this customer focused, so we've got to stay on brand.

How do you remain agile but actually keep that call really solid? Yeah, I think it's a, it's a really good question. It's about evolving with your customer. So I think typically, I think, like you said at the beginning, I've been with a number of brands, you get quite stuck in this mindset of like, this is who our customer is.

And actually at the pace of change at the moment, whether that's with the introduction of AI, I'm making it sound like it came out yesterday, but whether it's, you know, people using AI or whether it's companies focusing on one pool of customers and being like, this is our hero customer. This is who we're going for. We then end up creating content purely for that group of customers because we know that they fundamentally bring in, I don't know, a certain amount of, or a certain percentage of the company's revenue.

So it is about being able to be flexible and evolving strategies within a main strategy to relate to 3, 4, 5 groups of customers. So at Curvy Kate typically how it works is we always have a objective, which is about confidence and freedom for women with bigger boobs. And so fundamentally our main campaign would always be that, it will be capturing the beauty of women, feeling all of those gorgeous emotions. And then we use different parts of the funnel to target maybe a younger audience or an older audience because we know that we have a certain age group who still absolutely love engaging with Facebook.

We have a younger audience who, you know, want to be on TikTok. So it's just about ensuring that your hero campaign is true to the brand. It tells a story of exactly who you are, what you are about, and then it's about making assets work for different parts of the funnel based on who you're trying to talk to. 'cause typically one size doesn't really fit all in, in like, anymore as much as it used to.

So yeah, as long as you have a, a key hero and a key story, and then evolving assets further down is typically why, what really works wherever I've been. I love this. So you've built a really solid foundation, you know and understand the customer. You really know and understand your brand and what it stands for.

And then you can move around that. 'cause it sounds, as you say, whether it's Facebook and yes people are still on it or whether it's of course TikTok, you can be completely different, yet the same to the people that need you to. Yeah, and I think the thing is, is everyone wants to feel inspired, right? Right.

Regardless of whether you are buying a bra, whether you are buying a boiler, whether you are spending five grand on Net-a-Porter, like the content that you see has to be aspirational to you. So we have kind of three pillars at Curvy Kate, which is we create aspirational content and we do that through a different kind of funnel of influencers, models, employees. So all of it is relatable. I think long gone are the days where, you know, I think if we use Dior as a really good example, and I am a bit of a fashion nerd like in my spare time anyway, but fashion houses like Dior, the majority of their revenue is from their perfume because they create assets or they create marketing campaigns that, you know, have the faces of A-listers.

For brands like Curvy Kate, we don't have an A-list budget. And even if we did, I'm not entirely sure that I'd use an A-lister anyway, great for brand brand awareness, but a snippet in time. So for me it's really about creating content that is, that is one relatable, two aspirational, and three educational, like in a, in a market for anyone in retail, it's so noisy at the moment. And what we are seeing really kind of resonates with customers is imagery, images, whether that's video or it, or it's still assets that people can go, yeah, that isn't unachievable.

Like that is what I look like and therefore that's how I, that's how I feel and actually that's why I need to buy it. So it, it's just about adapting in real time and actually just understanding who the customer is. And we talk to our customer quite a lot so we know exactly what it is that she wants. So when I'm ideating on a creative campaign, I already know before I've got on set exactly what assets I need.

I know where they're gonna go in the funnel line that then know how they're typically going to convert. So yeah, it's, it's been a journey. I mean, I've only been with the business for just over a year, so we've had quite a bit of a shift in terms of kind of, creative direction, but it's working really well, which is lovely. Oh, it sounds fab.

And actually talking of aspiration then out of campaigns, I've gotta talk about the elephant in the room for an awful lot of people listening. There is often, maybe always a bit of tension between the creativity and commerciality, you go between the two. How can you protect bold creative ideas while actually making sure that it delivers this stuff works for you? Yeah, and I, I think that's it, right?

I think it's understanding where it's going. So I think historically you'd have a brand team that would go off and go and shoot a gorgeous campaign and it would look fabulous on homepage or it would look fabulous on a bus stop. Or, you know, it's a great TV ad, but what is it actually doing and how are you measuring success? So when we're ideating as a brand team, we're already thinking about, you know, what's the product story?

What do we wanna tell a customer, and then how does it resonate further down the funnel? So we then fundamentally ensure that we sweat those assets really, really hard. So we'll have a conversation, as a department, so brand, marketing, digital CRM to ensure that we know exactly where those assets are going and everyone's on board with the vision. And I think half of the battle, honestly, is brand, wherever I've been, are really protective.

We are really protective of the story. We're really protective of the brand image, and I get it, you know, I don't think there's anyone more protective than Net-a-Porter , or the kind of main fashion houses, but it's, it's about bringing everybody else on that journey with you. So by the time you get to execution, you've already got a digital team that are buzzing, 'cause they're like, well, all of our CRMs gonna look absolutely gorgeous and the homepage is gonna be lovely. And actually the product, the product pages can showcase e-comm images, which we know we need alongside this kind of beautiful brands who are at the top.

So, it's about protecting the brand but not being protective enough that you are not including everybody else. So whenever we get to a point of shooting a campaign, we'll sit down as a team and go, well, we know that that's gonna go on paid social, or we know that we are gonna, you know, sweat it, sweat it really hard in terms of our own social accounts as an example. So it's just, it's just been clear and consistent at the beginning as to exactly what's going where. And just getting everyone's buy-in.

Like I'm all for opinions all the time. And my team are quite vocal, so that really helps. I love this. And actually, leading on from that then, at eTail UK you are obviously gonna be talking about lifetime value, full funnel thinking, much like you've just described there.

Yeah. How do you then make sure that it is consistent across every customer touchpoint? You know, you've mentioned e-comm there, you've mentioned socials. Yeah.

But you don't want anything, I suppose, to just land as this hero brand shoot. You wanna ensure lifetime value for all of your customers. Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes into the, I spoke a second ago about obviously like top of funnel and, and creating gorgeous campaigns and it's about ensuring that we involve customers in that process. So you'll have your main hero campaign for spring - summer, or autumn - winter.

And then within that we ask for customer feedback. We talk to customers consistently. And actually I think acquisition is important. Of course it is.

And you know, the spend, there's no shying away from the, you know, the spend of kind of acquisition at the moment. But actually we spend a lot of focus on retention because once we've got them in the funnel, the way that we talk to them is really different. We really value, value their loyalty to the brand. So we've had a bit of a shift change in the sense of, yeah, fantastic.

We can go and create gorgeous campaigns, that's lovely, but actually the real work comes after that. So once they've purchased, how do we talk to them? What does that entire journey look like? What does customer service do?

Like how do we bring what we stand for as a brand to life, not just from purchase one, but for purchase 2, 3, 4, et cetera, et cetera. So not gonna give away too much ahead of eTail, but from a business perspective, I always focus on LTV over acquisition because fundamentally... Love to hear that. Love it.

It's easier, like it's a better way of spend, finance director's gonna love me today. Yeah, it's a way more cost effective use to spend. And actually I think, you know, the more people we get telling the brand story, 'cause what we do is really cool. It really helps that acquisition perspective anyway, so yeah.

I am, I am literally off to go at the shop right now hearing you talk like this 'cause I am definitely a customer for you. Very excited to hear you talk more at eTail, of course, coming up now very shortly. Charlotte, it's been an absolute pleasure. It really has.

Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. Stephen Dewar is a senior business strategist with deep expertise in digital marketing, data-driven growth and customer engagement. He's now focused on applying artificial intelligence to improve business performance at scale.

At Blackcircles.com, he serves as director of marketing and a strategic lead for AI transformation, helping to embed AI across the organisation from customer service and operations to finance and product development. His work spans the practical use of generative AI, predictive modelling and automation to enhance decision making, improve efficiency, and unlock new opportunities for innovation. Stephen, welcome to the Retail Tea Break podcast.

Thank you, and thank you for making me sound so grand. We, we love that, you deserve it as well. And I'm fascinated to dig in to AI because of course the buzzword down for the last two years, but actually as someone now that's utilising it across the business, it's great to really get you perception of what's going on. So, look, we know AI is changing how consumers search, you know, they compare things, they're making buying decisions.

What's the biggest behavioural shift that you are seeing from customers today that maybe retailers underestimated even a year ago? I think that a year ago thing is, is such an important point because ultimately this is technology moving faster than we've ever seen it before, and it is technology enabling faster change every single point. So it's very self-fulfilling. I think from a consumer perspective, it's, it's a very interesting time because when, when you think about how people shop online, ultimately they go into their pocket, they pull out their phone, they tap on it, they keep tapping on it until words appear in a box, and then they have to surf through lots and lots and lots of different websites until ultimately you trust a stranger on the internet to give them your money.

What's ultimately happening is you've seen huge changes in how customers are behaving, they're utilising AI to become more conversational. So even for complex products to very simple things, it's giving them the confidence and a much better online buying experience. So customers becoming more informed, more, more integrated into their whole shopping journey instead of just having to rely on what brands are telling them. It's such a change in dynamic of consumer knowledge when they're coming to make a purchase.

They're also now expecting hyper-personalized experiences, aren't they? Because I suppose they're getting so used to, as you said, everything kind of going their way. But on the other side of that, I suppose they're also becoming more cautious about privacy, about authenticity. Mm-hmm.

How are brands then, like Blackcircles, balancing that convenience aspect that everyone wants, but also with trust in this AI era? I, I think that's, it is such an important thing, this balance of trust and, and it probably comes from two sides. You've got one when customers or consumers are going online and using tools like Google or ChatGPT or Perplexity, they're ultimately being fed with information. And it's not so much that they trust what the brands are saying, they're trusting what Google's saying to them.

They're trusting what ChatGPT says to them. So on one side, you've got brands have to develop that trust and authority in the eyes of both consumers and AI tools, LLMs. And that comes from truly putting customers first. And I think the basis of all of this is if you understand your customers and you understand their needs and their desires and their motivations, you can create the content, you can create the journey that works not just for customers who have a heartbeat, but customers who are sitting on a server somewhere or some sort of blend in between.

That, that trade off that people have is that as, you're totally right, as people want a more hyper personalised experience, I don't want to be sold to based on I wear a size 10 shoe. I want to be sold on I'm Stephen and this is how I'm going to use this and this is where I'm going. As data becomes more accessible to these tools, customers will balance the trade off between how much information am I willing to give to AI, give to these engines, and am I getting the convenience, the safety, the security at the end of the day?

And I, and I think that will be measured in pounds and pence. If Google is an example, if Google, 10 years ago built search engine that gave people terrible recommendations and they never got where they wanted to go, they wouldn't be the global behemoth they are to date. When you look at AI, it's the same thing. These AI tools, whether it is Google's AI overviews and AI modes, or it's your ChatGPTs, your Perplexities, ultimately they will be judged on how good the answers are that they're giving.

And as long as those answers have trust and validation and, and ultimately help people achieve what they we're trying to achieve, people are only going to keep adopting this quicker and quicker and quicker. Is it a trade off though? Because I know an awful lot of consumers out there are interested but a little bit scared. Mm-hmm.

They're like, we have to give you data for you to give us that hyper personalised experience. Should they be fearing it like a trade off or actually, as you say, if I tell you I want the blue, you know, a blue shoe, mm-hmm, a blue suede shoe in a size 10 mm-hmm surely then they're gonna get that better answer. It, it is that trade off. And I think with anything consumer behaviour comes in waves.

You will have the early adopters who are using it to plan their entire holidays. They're going on and saying, look, I just want to go on holiday to this place. This is my budget. Off it goes.

There is the trade off. And it will come with, again, trust as people become more comfortable using it. I think we're seeing a big shift in that, some of the big, big places where retail starts, your Amazon's, your Google, these kind of journeys are starting to embed AI. So you've got Amazon's Rufus, which helps people drive sales and conversions.

You've got Google AI mode, which is guiding people from an end-to-end shopping journey. I think what we'll see is that people won't have to go out and trust it. It will then just become an intrinsic part of what they already do and they will gradually just become used to it more than anything else. But it is, there's always gonna to be that world where people go, well, I don't want you to know what size of shirt I wear.

I don't want you to know what size of shirt I wear. But it, it is that kind of, people will trade it off and if the results they get at the back end of it merit them trading that off, people will have their different levels of how much data they're willing to share. It's such an interesting area. It really is.

But that's obviously the consumer perspective. And looking internally though, I suppose, to teams, our colleagues and inside the organisation, AI is obviously changing, not just the workflows, but also how teams think, how they collaborate. What behavioural changes are you seeing then internally when companies begin embedding AI into everyday decision making? There's a big, big differential between decision making and embedding AI, but the two things are absolutely linked.

I think at the moment we're moving beyond that point of a couple of years of people testing things and playing with things and saying, wow, this is really cool, but not actually deploying anything that has proper, proper business value. I think now that the tools are much more sophisticated, the tools get more connected to existing systems that we already have. Our emails or documents or, or everything really. I mean, we are doing this on Zoom just now and Zoom's recording this and actually analysing what's happening in the background to help people in the future.

You can see this and as these things begin to develop, I think the greatest challenge that businesses are going to have is actually the lack of critical thinking skills. If you're sitting in a world where actually an AI tool can write your social media posts, an AI tool can write your software development and AI tool can respond to customers, the human element is gonna become more important than anything at all. So, I mean, from a Blackcircles perspective, yes, we're very much advancing our use of AI technology across the whole business remit, but one of the biggest things we're focusing on is helping our people transition to that, developing communication skills, encouraging critical thinking, allowing people to be creative at pace so that maybe that person who didn't know how to computer code but had some of the greatest ideas now is enabled and empowered to go and do new things that they just wouldn't be able to do in the past.

I love that and I think it's so authentic as well. It speaks to the company, as Blackcircles.com is, but also then I'm fascinated, looking at the bigger picture then, what separates the companies that are genuinely transforming, like yourselves, from those though that are simply still in that experimental phase, you know, maybe a little bit fearful? Mm-hmm.

I always like the phrase, no guts, no glory. I, I think it's quite important that if you have one voice in a business who's going, we need to do AI, we need to do AI, we need to, it's never going to go anywhere. Bringing people on the journey and understanding the benefits it brings them. If you have situations where your finance team can ultimately streamline some of the workflows that they didn't realistically want to do, but are absolutely business critical, that helps them buy into it.

If you can help marketeers test more things than they'd ever be able to do with human skills, AI is very much about uncovering the things that we can't see as human beings because it's just, we don't have the time. Business moves too fast. Bringing people on the journey and understanding how it impacts them, not just from a business perspective, but from a, this is going to change how your life works outside of the office. That's probably the most important thing.

So as, as convoluted as it sounds, with AI being such a technical advancement, the companies that are putting people first are the ones that are actually going to bring the biggest value and reap the benefits in years to come. I completely agree, and I'm also really looking forward then to hearing much more from you, and much more on this topic at eTail up in Manchester now in a couple of weeks. I cannot wait to see you there. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks so much, Melissa. Thank you. Olivia Parkes is founder and CEO of Persi, an AI powered styling and personalization layer for fashion commerce, redefining personalization with AI that understands people, not just data. With 17 years of experience across fashion and retail, she founded Persi to bridge the gap between how people actually shop and how e-commerce works today, building a future where online shopping feels personal, intuitive and human.

Olivia, welcome to the Retail Tea Break podcast. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. That was a lovely intro.

It is very well written, I must say, but actually very excited to have this conversation 'cause I am fascinated by what you've built, as a shopper now, as a consumer. Forget the retail thing, just actually as someone that really wants to utilise this. Very excited for you to be bringing this to the market. But look, before we start, because you have this amazing background in the industry, in the time that it takes to boil a kettle, which I am told is about two minutes, tell us a little bit more about your background in the industry.

Of course, I think it really helps the fact that ultimately I am my ICP. So my background is very much across brand, marketing and communications within the kind of retail and consumer space. So I started off working in-house across fashion and jewellery and some beauty brands, and then latter kind of seven years had my own consultancy where really I was kind of helicoptered in and sort of there to support with retailers building out their marketing offer, their value proposition, but really getting to grips with who their customer was, how we find them and convert them, and ultimately how we retain them.

And that is where I essentially landed on this problem around broken product discovery and a real lack of limited personalization. So on that then, you know, you've, you've obviously mentioned it there, but Persi, tell us a little bit about it. What inspired it and more importantly, the challenges that you are aiming to solve for both retailers and shoppers. Yeah, so as I said, I think as a bit of a shopping addict myself, I certainly had both had the problem, but also, as I was trying to solve it in my role at sort of fashion retailers, I also saw this challenge where the consumers being overwhelmed by the amount of product there was out there.

You know, I was at night scrolling through my phone, not being able to find what I wanted. When I did find an item I wanted, I then wanted to understand how I'd wear that item, how it would fit within the current items in my wardrobe because I wasn't always looking to buy it a whole new outfit. And how I could also style a different way so I could really kind of get that cost per wear, I guess in my investment as well. And I think what I landed on at that point was the fact that personalization wasn't actually personal.

And the reason for this is 'cause retailer see such a small part of who the shopper is. So they know our past behaviour, they know where we've clicked on their website and they know what we've bought from them, but they don't know anything else, what we call the kind of wider context. So who I am, what else is in my wardrobe, what are the brands I wear and how I style their items, and most importantly, what I'm shopping for in that moment. And I think this is really where I landed on the, the sort of, opportunity, and certainly on, what we could sort of solve for when it came to, to Persi.

It's exciting though because I do think you're right. When I think about the way I shop or even my wardrobe, like retailers are only seeing that one little snapshot where there's a much bigger picture. And I think if they can reach into that, there's definitely more money for everyone to make there. But also, as you said, loyalty, personalization, all these good, rich kind of things that actually retail needs long term.

But from a tech perspective then, in such a fast moving retail tech space, what sets Persi apart from all the other solutions out there right now? Yeah, no, great question. And to be honest, you know, there's things that are popping up every day, like ultimately at the moment, there is a real excitement around fashion tech and particularly in the direct to consumer space. So there's more and more apps coming out where you can build wardrobes, swap wardrobes, you know, you can take pictures of items and then be able to shop them.

You can shop based on pricing, you know, you can use ChatGBT, if you know the right prompts, to start to kind of improve your discovery. And I think the reality is is consumer behaviour is changing in the way in which they want to shop. Retailers need to find some way to incorporate AI and a better personalised journey on their website. But they can't afford to re-platform their commerce and they don't have the sort of, ability also to sort of start from scratch.

So I guess what Persi is doing is bringing this more AI led discovery onto a retailer's platform that they can control, so it's not in the realms of, you know, Gemini or, or Chat where they might be pitched against different, competitors. Ultimately from the consumer, the journey isn't that seamless, where they then might get to the website, it's out of stock in their size, they've gotta go back to the discovery to then find the trouser to go at the top. We're able to actually own that experience, it feels, and it is within that retailers UI and we're only recommending their products, but we're doing it based on knowledge that they could not build themselves.

That they don't have that wider context of the consumer. And the beauty of what Persi does is it allows the consumer to take that information with them as they shop cross retailers powered by Persi. And the benefit there is that the shopper is able to land on another retailer and if they have told Persi before that they like a certain style, shopping for certain occasions and have uploaded items in their wardrobe and maybe purchased, we are able to, as they land on that new retailer, give them a more personal experience based on that data without sharing that cross retailer.

So the retailers are benefiting by essentially being able to extract the right product in front of the right customer to increase conversion and upsell as well through completion of looks. But the shoppers just getting a better experience so they don't have to keep repeating every time they land on a new retailer as well. It, it just sounds like it's what's needed by now. The safety is there for the retailers, those guardrails are up 'cause you've built them, but also the shopper literally almost feels like they're getting a personal shopper or personal assistant in their pocket because as you said it, it's coming with them across brands that are plugged into Persi.

Yeah, exactly. I think one thing I was really passionate about when I was building Persi, because I've come from the retailer world and I am the shoppers, I wanted to find a solution that was a win-win on both sides. And I think that's where with Persi it really made sense to direct it towards a B2B solution, where I work with the retailers. We find out how we show up across their website in a way that works for them and their shoppers.

But we allow the shopper, as I said, to take it with them. Because for me it's not about having an app and you know, just talking to your customer or if you're a retailer, you know, driving one experience that they believe is right for their brand. I think we need to open our eyes a bit, understand that people are shopping differently, behaviour is changing. And actually from a retailer's point of view, you know, there isn't a fear of a data being shared.

It's actually benefiting them to know their customer better without having to even ask the questions or save the data themselves. They do what they do best. They create beautiful product that, you know, fits within their world and they create an experience on their website that matches, you know, that identity and Persi allows them to elevate that to an a sort of level of personalization that matches the consumer needs and expectations. And needs is definitely the word 'cause it is needed as far as I'm concerned.

And I know you and I have had this conversation, I would love to see this as a shopper. I really would. But look, you are obviously gonna be at eTail up in Manchester now in a few weeks. Very excited.

You're doing their version of Dragons Den. I know! So in that kind of style, if you were to pitch right now, why do you believe both retailers and consumers should pay attention to and engage with Persi today? So I think from a retailer's point of view, you know, the landscape is changing.

They need to find ways to incorporate AI and better personalization onto their e-commerce experience without the need to rebuild their tech stack in a way that is still controlled and sort of under their brand. It's a very quick plug and play solution. We are integrated under 30 minutes and essentially Persi gets to work and starts building these complete looks based on what the shopper is telling us they own, like and need. From a shopper's perspective, it doesn't cost you a dime.

You simply need to, you don't even need to tell us anything, we'll start personalising. But once you do, it only makes the experience better, not only on the current retailer you're on, but also as you shop other retailers powered by Persi. So you never have to tell us anything twice. Wow.

Exciting. I can't wait to see you up in Manchester at eTail. Very excited now to see Persi's journey over the next while. Olivia, thank you for joining me today.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Charlotte, Stephen and Olivia for joining me on this, the first of two very special eTail mashup episodes of the Retail Tea Break podcast. And if you are joining us in Manchester on the 16th and 17th of June, come and say hello as I'll be there across the two day event MCing.

And remember, don't forget to follow the Retail Tea Break podcast on your favourite podcast platform, leave a review and share the episode with your retail network.