Orbit to Operations: Bridging Government and Industry in Defense Innovation | The Pair Program Ep71

Speaker A: Welcome to the PEAR program from Hatchpad, the podcast that gives you a front row seat to candid conversations with tech leaders from the startup world. I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the creator of Hatchpad.

Speaker B: And I'm your other host, Mike Gruen.

Speaker A: Join us each episode as we bring together two guests to dissect topics at the intersection of technology, startups and career growth. All right, welcome back to the Pair program. I am your host, Tim Winkler, joined, uh, as always by my co host, Mike Gruen. Mike, uh, today, uh, is National Superhero Day. Um, so got me thinking that if you could have any superpower, uh, not the character, just one ability, what would you go with?

Speaker B: I'm in the superpower. Time travel. Every time. Uh, I mean that's, that's the best superpower in my opinion. Uh, time travel, probably the most, probably the most dangerous. But yeah, time travel would be my.

Speaker A: What about you going teleporting, I think. Teleporting? Uh, yeah. No more airports, sitting in D.C. traffic. Just pick your destination, bam, bam, you're there.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Um, cool. All right, well, look, uh, speaking of larger than life, uh, capabilities, today's episode, uh, ties into some real world heroes, uh, innovators that are pushing the boundaries of what's possible in space technology. So we're going to be talking about stratify spaceworks and how partnerships like the one between Albedo and the US Space Force are helping to bridge the commercial innovation, uh, into international defense. So we're bringing together two excellent guests for this one. Um, first off, we have Arthur Grijalva. I hope I pronounced that last name okay. Yeah, director of spaceworks lead, uh, strategy across nearly a half a billion dollars in funding annually to accelerate innovation within the United States Space Force. Uh, Arthur, thanks for joining us on the pod.

Speaker C: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. Love talking about spaceworks and how we can make the future of space better.

Speaker A: Good stuff. Yeah, looking forward to diving in deeper. And then we have Topher Haddad, uh, the co founder and CEO of Albedo, a, uh, startup building, uh, V LEO satellites, also known as very low earth orbiting satellites that capture optical imagery at super sharp resolutions. Uh, also we'll note that Topher is a Pair program alum who previously joined us on an episode we hosted a few years ago, uh, alongside Mike Brown. So Topher, thanks for joining us the second time here.

Speaker D: Yeah, thanks for having me back.

Speaker A: Good stuff. All right, uh, uh, let's get, uh, right into the Pair me Up segment here. Here's uh, what we'll go around the room, name Two things that just kind of go together or don't. Mike, uh, you always lead us off. What, what do you got for us today?

Speaker B: Uh, today? Well, it's springtime, uh, and that, uh, home ownership in critters. It seems like every year there's, Every season there's something that you're battling, whether it's ants, uh, in the spring, or like, you know, mice or something, or squirrels in the fall. Uh, what made me think of it is this weekend there's a bird that's decided that, uh, my gutters would make a great nest. Uh, so just trying to deal with that. Um, so, yeah, uh, homeownership and critters. It's just like a never ending, uh, saga.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I can relate, man. We've got some, some wild critters out here at this Tennessee home. Pretty sure there's something in our floorboards, uh, that we're real time trying to navigate, but.

Speaker B: That's awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Fun. Quick story on that. My son, uh, growing up, he would, uh. He said there was like a monster in his room or whatever. My wife and I just didn't believe him. And we're like, you know, it's typical of like, imagination stuff. Just go back to sleep. It turned out there were squirrels. Not squirrels. There was a couple mice up in the attic right above his bed. Um, and that's what he was hearing. And so, lesson learned. Maybe we should investigate that.

Speaker A: That'll keep you up at night.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I'm pretty sure we're dealing with the squirrel issue, but, uh, we'll figure that out soon. Um, cool. I'll, uh, I'm going to keep the. My pairing in theme with, you know, a little bit more about what we're kind of talking about today in space. Um, so I'm gonna go with kind of staring up, uh, at the stars and feeling incredibly small. Uh, these are, uh, you know, things that I've experienced, you know, multiple times. You know, one really standout experience out in the, in Moab, in the desert where, you know, just, you know, stars are so brilliant. But I would say that, you know, when you, when you kind of get that, that moment where you're, you're looking up, um, and, uh, it's. It's humbling, honestly. Um, when you're kind of caught up in the stress of what, dead deadlines, meetings and everyday life. But you kind of look up at the night sky and I think it kind of like resets, uh, everything for you, uh, just kind of reminds you that there's a A bigger picture beyond our daily grind. So I'll go with, yes, there, stars and feeling, uh, incredibly small. Uh, and then I'm gonna pass it over to our guest, uh, Topher. Quick intro and, uh, and your pairing. And. And you can, uh, opt out of the, uh, Topo Chico repeat, even though I could see that you are drinking one today.

Speaker D: Do you have my topo from last time? And. Yeah, every day. Got it. Got it right here. Um, yeah. Toper, CEO of Albedo. Uh, my pairing is inspired by my recent morning routine, which is going to the skate park bright and early in the morning, fully padded up. It's empty. Maybe there's one other person there with pads like me, uh, trying to escape the crowds and listening to the tv, uh, brothers podcasts from the day before. So it's been my morning, uh, routine, and it makes for a great start to the day.

Speaker A: Dude, I love that you brought that up, because I was revisiting our last episode just to make sure I didn't ask some of the same questions. And one of them was, you know, what's a skill that you're, you know. You know, a hobby that you're kind of working towards. And skateboarding was. Was your. Was your call. He did, yeah. So have you been, you know, progressively getting better over the last couple years?

Speaker D: You know, not as quickly as I would have liked. I was a late, um, I learned to skateboard in my 20s, so I didn't get that, like, early. Early days, uh, technique down. But, yeah, I think I've been. I've been improving a bit.

Speaker A: So what's the best trick that you got, uh, in the bag?

Speaker D: I mostly ride the bulls, and so I've been working on getting back to, like, the stalls and. And the, uh, rock the fakies and things like that. But this. That right now I'm trying to get the. The grind out of the bowl, um, and then going back in. So that's been what I've been working on lately, which is tough.

Speaker C: I dig it.

Speaker A: I dig it. Good stuff, man. Well, good for you for keeping at it. Um, cool. And, uh, we'll, uh, pass it over to Arthur. Just a quick intro and your pairing.

Speaker C: Yeah. Hey, so this is Arthur Gralva here at Spaceworks. Uh, my pairing are the, like, the two passions that keep me going, which is coffee and Disney. So I actually have Coffee Disney right here in a cool little Tumblr. And here being here in SoCal, I get to go Disneyland quite a bit. So I actually had a season pass last year, went 20 times. So that, that keeps, uh, me up

Speaker A: and running, is it, uh, everybody I talk to that goes to Disney is always like, you have to get, you have to get like the lightning pass or like the cut the line pass. Is that part of the, is that part of your package?

Speaker C: Uh, no, since we go so many

Speaker A: times, uh, we, we usually wait in line.

Speaker C: We try to time it with the day, but sometimes we'll do the lighting pass.

Speaker A: Got it. You've already checked all the, all the rides off the list. Cool. All right, man. Well, yeah, thanks again for joining us and Topher, for the repeat. Um, good pairings all around. Let's dive into today's conversation. So, in classic pair program form, this will be a dual perspective conversation on the Spacework Stratfi program. How it enables emerging commercial tech technologies like Albedos v LEO satellites to accelerate their path towards operational, uh, defense use. Um, Arthur, you'll be bringing in the government lens from spaceworks. Topher, you're going to bring that founder's perspective in from Albedo and, and how a startup navigates the Stratfi program. So I'm excited for this one, guys. Let's, let's dive in. Um, I'd like to start with you, Arthur, and maybe for listeners that are unfamiliar with, you know, Stratfi, you know, what is the program, you know, its purpose, and, and how does it align with the broader mission of, of spaceworks?

Speaker C: No. Awesome, thanks. Uh, yeah, so here at Spaceworks, the way I look at it is how do we build a, um, more efficient, effective, and lethal force for the space force? And I really think that's by taking advantage of our biggest strength as a nation, which is innovation, ingenuity. And that comes from companies, uh, you know, small startups, academia. So really here at spaceworks, we work with those great ideas that, uh, come out of the community. Uh, we make investments into those ideas and we take the best and brightest ones and really take advantage of what's going on in the commercial market. And ultimately we want to transition them into the hands of the war fighter. Uh, so we do that in many ways. Uh, that could be as small as a study. Uh, you know, maybe like $100,000 is to kind of look at a concept all the way up to this thing that we're talking about, which is a stratify, which is a strategic funding increase. And really I see that as a, as a partnership between SpaceWorks, other government program offices and, uh, companies and private capital. So traditionally, it's $15 million comes from SpaceWorks. $15 million comes from program offices, then 30 million comes from the private capital side. So it really shows how we're all coming together. We're highlighting a company, an idea. We really think that there is a lot there that we could ultimately transition and get to the commercial market and to the hands of the warfighter. And uh, that's really our biggest uh, effort here at Spaceworks. Uh, so just to give One example, uh, K2 space, uh, is one of our companies. Uh, they uh, had a strat five back in 24. Uh, they are launching in the next year a mega satellite, uh, uh, space vehicle. It's going to be going into low earth orbit and then it's going to be transitioning up into medium earth orbit. And what's really great about that company is they uh, went from idea to stratify and into a program of record, like a resilient, uh, gps, all within two years. Uh, so that, that's really great and it shows how fast we can go and how we're ultimately transitioning things into Space Force programs and ultimately into the hands of the warfighter.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's exciting especially you know, hearing timelines like that versus, you know, what a lot of folks associate like these three to five year uh, timelines to get to a program of record. Um, is there a, you know, a formula or, you know, I guess I'm just trying to understand a little bit on how space works, evaluate and maybe prioritizes some of these different stratify candidates.

Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Uh, so ultimately I see the Strapfis as a reflection of priorities of the Space Force. So we work with program offices, the Program executive offices. We work with the operational community like uh, US Space Command, US Endopacom. Uh, we also work with the Commercial Space Office, the Space Futures Command. So we look at all these different entities and then we use that and we take those inputs to prioritize which investments we're going, we're going to make. But then we also look at things at the company. Can they scale? Are they real? Is there any foreign, uh, influence? How commercially viable are they? And we do all that and then we ultimately take our recommendations up to the highest levels of the Space Force and the leadership side, uh, all the way up to General Purdy, who is the acting Service acquisition Executive. And then he endorses them to ensure that they're all aligned towards the top priorities for the Space Force.

Speaker A: And are there specific outcomes or I guess trying to understand just in terms of how you all measure impact of each of these companies, are there certain Criteria that you kind of put in place when you're evaluating some outcomes or measuring the impact.

Speaker C: No, for sure. I mean for me the biggest thing for me is is it scalable? Can we make it real and can it ultimately transition into the hands of the warfighter? That's what matters most to me. So we're really looking for these game changing technologies and ideas and companies that can really move the ball forward for the Space Force.

Speaker A: Cool.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, let's switch gears real quick and pass it over to you, Topher. So from the founder seat, can you talk a little bit about what motivated Albedo to pursue Stratfi?

Speaker D: Yes, um, I'd say, I mean from. There's a lot of different funding mechanisms for early stage companies and innovative technologies across the US Government. And um, the defense side of things. Stratfi is especially great because of the matching ability where it takes venture capital dollars kind of to Arthur's point, on like the sustainability of the business and that sort of thing with the customer funds from the government with matching dollars from Spaceworks and the CBER side of things. And so it basically it both makes the sales pitch to the customer easier because you can double their money with the matching funds and get more scope than you otherwise would to fund, you know, new technology on its own. Um, and similarly for us it's a, it's one of the best sources of non dilutive funding because of that matching opportunity. And, and it fits a nice stage in terms of the, you know, it not quite for in our case as early as the idea phase, like, like the K2 example that Arthur mentioned, but um, an initial satellite launch and a technology that is demonstrated. But there's a lot more uh, to go in terms of what we can exploit from veo. And that's really what we're focused on in our stratify is the measurements and the data we get from the VLIO environment to inform the uh, the US government's, you know, future abilities to put different payloads and whatnot into Velio. And so from, I'd say both the technology side of things in terms of the phase of development and the non dilutive funding opportunity that comes with that, it's a pretty unique combo.

Speaker B: Arthur, I was curious and Topher, feel free uh, to also answer but like is Space Force, is it a little faster or easier to go through it since Space Force is newer than some of the other things, or is it basically the same very similar process and similar bureaucracy? Um, I'm sort of curious if you guys have a little bit of advantage in terms of being a little bit newer and not being as tied uh, down to maybe how things have always been done.

Speaker C: No, for sure. Uh, I mean we do take advantage of that by uh, making sure that we're going against priorities and uh, helping kind of align it across the Space Force. Because we work across the entire Space Force, like Space Systems Command, Space Development Agency, Space Rapid Capabilities Office, the Air Force Research Lab, and then also the operational community. Uh, so that does make it, I would say, easier maybe for us, uh, since we are smaller, we are able to get all those key stakeholders and align that to the demand signal. But from a process perspective, uh, this is really something that's been instituted across the Department of the Air Force, which includes the Air Force and Space Force. We take advantage of that great scaled, uh, operations that comes from afWorks, which is our parent organization, uh, which includes both the air and space side when it comes to innovation. So because we have that together they have about $1 billion per year. On um, the space side we have about half a billion per year. So in total it's $1.5 billion that we're putting into this innovation ecosystem. Uh, SpaceWorks were able to take advantage of all those great processes from affworks while also aligning across all the different stakeholders in the space side. So uh, it's made for a pretty good combination in my opinion.

Speaker A: What's kind of like the cadence on, on the Stratify Award? So, you know, I guess two, two fold question, you know, how many companies do you tend to kind of loop in on, on maybe an annual basis? And are each of those kind of um, allocated a specific amount? Is it kind of even across the board? What, what is, what goes into that?

Speaker C: Yeah, so we work uh, with these acquisition or these program executive officers, we look at their portfolios, we work with their teams and we're like, hey, where do you really need the most help? Where do you have a challenge or somewhere that we can help you? So what they do is they'll point us to the part of the portfolio that they think that they could commercialize the most. And then we work with those partners to see how can we fund into those portfolios. So uh, one example I like to give is tactically responsive space. Uh, we had, we uh, invested $34 million into that and we ran it through this challenge program, which is essentially the government gets together with industry and academia and the private capital side. We all get together, usually 100 people, we talk about the problem, we figure out what's the Best way to approach it. How can we, uh, what are the best requirements? And all that goes into solicitation for a contract? And then we. What happens is we get a lot of inputs from industry. We had 302 submissions for that round. We selected 17 companies, and then we really got the best and brightest, best of breed, and then we build them into a cohort and we just kind of take them along, working with the program office and going after the challenges that they need. And ultimately that feeds into the Stratify. So we'll start with those smaller contracts of $2 million pop. That'll go into our tactical funding increases, which is like a smaller stratify, and then ultimately into Stratify to help with prototyping and transitioning to the program offices. So it really starts from the beginning, working together to, uh, ultimately get to the end outcome of trying to transition and actually building these things up and burning down risk for the portfolios.

Speaker A: Wow. So 302 submissions down to 17. Is that what you said?

Speaker D: Yep.

Speaker A: Wow. That's, that's, uh, it's. I love how you bring in those multiple perspectives too, from industry, academia, um, venture as well. So, uh, Topher, did you have any. And I don't know if it was you being the main lead or point on working within the STRAPFI program itself, so maybe you have somebody else that would be better suited to answer this. But I was curious, were there any surprises or challenges when you're kind of navigating that government funding landscape?

Speaker D: Yes, I think so. This was our second attempt. The Stratfire we awarded was our second application. Uh, the last one was maybe about a year before then. And so I'd say the surprise at that time was seemingly the hardest part to get a stratify was getting the customer funds, getting a customer to say, yeah, we're willing to throw in 3 million or 5 million or $50 million for this specific scope that we want to fund. And then taking that and it getting matched, um, but to Arthur's point at 300 submissions, I think would mean that all those submissions had customers wanting to fund that. And, and so then it really got back to the priorities of the department in terms of what they wanted to down select with the limited matching funds that they had. And so, um, I think that was a surprise for us in the first time was like, oh, we had customers that wanted to fund this specific thing, but we didn't get the Stratify. And that really just mapped back to the overall, uh, priorities of the department. Um, but generally, I'D say that it's pretty. I mean, it takes a while to get up to speed on all the different nuance and rules and program offices, especially if you haven't worked in this arena before. But generally it's all laid out there pretty straightforward, um, in terms of what the requirements are, what you have to do and what's going to make for a compelling proposal.

Speaker A: Do you lead that or do you have a team that's uh, more designated towards the federal side of your all's work?

Speaker D: We have a great Director of Federal Dandy Orlando. Um, and then we have a couple engineers that spend a lot of time on that side of things as well. And then myself, I'm very involved as well. So that's kind of, uh, our U.S. government team right now.

Speaker A: Sweet. So I can recall back. It was almost two years ago now, uh, when you were kind of talking to us about anticipation for your first satellite launch and you referenced spring of 2025. So here we are, um, and your forecast was spot on because you guys launched Clari, I believe, in March of this year. Uh, can you kind of walk us through that experience and what went into the, you know, just kind of prepping for that successful launch?

Speaker D: Yeah, a lot. Um, and I, I think that's another element of all this too is like the technology and the idea and like what, what you're trying to do as a startup, um, in working with the government is one thing, but executing on that is very meaningful, uh, in terms of like doing what you say you're going to do. So I. So that has definitely helped us in terms of hitting that launch on time. Um, and we hit it on budget internally as well, which our investors loved. So, um, a lot of the focus over the last few years has just been building the new technologies required to fly a satellite in Velio for an extended period of time. Our satellites will last about five years on average. And so very focused on de risking certain milestones that we could on the ground, doing a lot of testing, um, and really focusing on the highest risk areas and the new technologies that we developed. And so, um, it always helps to have a very big forcing function, a very big deadline looming, especially as you get closer and closer. So as we got closer, I mean, we definitely, the team was definitely putting in a lot of hours and, uh, pushing it really hard. But we were super happy to see, especially even in the first few days after launch, how many milestones in the commissioning schedule we hit very quickly that we had thought would take longer. And so just getting to See all the fruits of that hard work and the smart testing and the smart development cycles, uh, across this, this kind of new type of satellite? Um, yeah, very, very, very happy with, with how it went. Uh, but it was a big, I mean it was a big effort across the whole company. You know, it's the biggest priority for years to hit that date.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Do you love a good tight deadline to just sort of force that like work m takes up the amount of time you give it. So if you have a deadline that's pretty tough to move, it's amazing how much can get done and how easy it is to make certain decisions about like what scope to cut or whatever. I'm sure.

Speaker D: Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I like the Hype video too. I think I saw it on LinkedIn. Ah, it was an exciting video. Um, so what are some of the next steps I guess in terms of your all's prototyping or mission planning that maybe aligns with the more recent kind of Stratify funding?

Speaker D: So this first satellite is an operational system in the sense that we've pre sold a bunch of contracts for it. We have um, uh, different deadlines and phases, um, that we' start delivering product to customers. This part of the Stratify is leveraging this system that we're flying operationally but also for the first time in Vleo to share the learning, share the data, all the measurements that we're going to make around atomic oxygen and drag, how that drag changes with solar flares and different kind of autonomous mission operations that are required very uniquely in veo. Um, and so that, that's really the focus of our Stratify is sharing that data with Air Force Research Laboratory as they are also a group that has been looking at Velio as a new domain and a new orbit that has various benefits both on the mission capability side from like a TAC SRT perspective getting better resolution, but also from a resiliency perspective of being able to have orbital diversity where um, you know, adversaries could. The more redundancy basically that you have across space, across all these different orbits, the better off you are. And for some of the capabilities that VEO unlocks that we would call kind of exquisite level capabilities because of the price point you can build these Velio systems at, you can also proliferate those exquisite capabilities which have been two things that have previously been mutually exclusive is exquisite capabilities and proliferated architectures which is a huge push right now given, given um, risks from, from adversaries. And so, um, and so that's part of what the Stratfire will focus on. Beyond that, we will kind of from going forward from here, continue to build satellites for our constellation that will focus on capturing imagery at a resolution that commercially today you can only get from planes or drones. So really giving that value proposition from a satellite of global scale, on demand imaging, high revisit rates and so on. As well as developing some new product lines with our expanding production capacity to exploit the VEO environment for the other benefits that it brings.

Speaker A: Random question, but is all the manufacturing based out in Colorado?

Speaker D: It is, yeah. We, we have um, we procure components um, for areas that like, aren't unique to Velia or have you know, great off the shelf production lines. But, but a uh, lot of it we build in house. We do all the integration assembly here in Denver. Um, we're actually expanding to a new facility soon to, to increase that capacity and then um. But yeah, most of it, most of it we do ourselves just given the. It's a new environment with its unique requirements and there isn't really, you know, an existing supply chain for, for Velia.

Speaker A: That's awesome and congrats again on that launch. It's, it's ah, I know it was, you know, again it was two years ago so it was like, you know, you, you kind of manifested uh, it and here, here we are. So it's really, really cool to come full circle with that, uh, just kind of bringing things back into, you know, the you know, Strapfi and dual use pathways. I mean this is a, a talking point we bring up quite constantly on this podcast, knowing that we, we talk a lot with commercial startup founders,

Speaker C: know,

Speaker A: integrate and, and help modernize in areas of, of tech and defense and national security. Uh, Arthur, you know, what do you think is maybe like ah, the next evolution for, for Stratfire, some of these dual use pathways and do you think that there are still like some gaps that you're, you're, you're trying to work through, uh, with that, the whole tech transition process?

Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah. So one thing I'll highlight is this cultural shift I think that's really happening right now, uh, under General Purdy's leadership for the Space Force is how can we really get after all these things that we need for the warfighter but without substantially increasing the budget or maybe having the same baseline budget even less. And uh, really the way to do that is by taking advantage of all the great things that are coming out of the commercial sector and relooking at legacy systems and seeing, hey can we change some requirements? Can we change them so we can have more commercial players, maybe take a little bit more risk? We could bring some of these new uh, startups and uh, companies into this space and that is something that we're doing right now with a program called gsap. So GSAP is really in geo, it does space domain awareness. So basically looks out into the GEO bell and is able to see what other assets are doing, both uh, uh, you know, US assets and also other nations. And that's a really important mission. And right now, uh, instead of maybe traditionally taking many years allied or hundreds of millions of dollars, we might be able to do it with less funding and a faster amount of time by taking advantage of these stratfires. So that's, that's one uh, one program that we've been working with amongst many others. But really from my perspective is how do we scale that? So we're really looking across the board, across the Space Force, making sure that we could have more of these insertion points into these programs of record so that we could really bring in this game changing technology in them and be able to do it more effectively, less cost and really go after that.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Um, Topher, you mentioned the second go at the strapfi, uh, on your all's end, what kind of advice do you lead for startup founders that are looking to create the types of partnerships that you've uh, already kind of done. So with Spaceworks, what are the things that in hindsight you would recommend it to that founder that's getting their foot off the ground?

Speaker D: I think definitely like from when you start the company, getting to a uh, to a Phase 2 SBIR as quickly as you can unlocks a lot of different opportunities including stratify. And so whether that's the traditional route through a phase one and then a phase two or going direct to phase two, which is what we did, um, that is, should be like the initial focus if you're trying to do work with the Defense Department, um, from, from starting a company. I think additionally to that, I think the rest of the advice is pretty straightforward and obvious and like isn't anything novel in the sense that it's like build something that you know, that people want and that someone you know in the Defense Department wants and needs and it likely needs to be fairly different and innovative than what they're using today for that to be um, you know, really um, interesting to them. And then finding a champion or a couple champions is so valuable, like they can just help, you know, sell the company uh, navigate to the right people in a way that outside the government you just never can do on your own. And so that has been super helpful for us. Um, and is definitely, you know, should be one of those initial focuses in parallel maybe with getting that phase two. Um, and then yeah, I think, I think from there it's maybe less of like how do I get the stratify and more like how do I, you know, uh, build and deliver value to these specific customers. And then in most cases I think you can leverage STRATFI as a part of that to create leverage for uh, the scope that they want to fund and doubling their money in that sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's super helpful advice. Um, Arthur, I'd love to hear from your angle too. Just in terms of those recommendations to the next wave of founders that are looking to build technologies impacting the mission behind Space Force. Um, what, what do you recommend? Any advice or any specific resources that you would direct folks to?

Speaker C: Yeah, so really, uh, one thing I like to highlight is our website, SpaceWorks. Uh, so it's space and then we rx, uh, us. Uh, so our website's a great resource of all our upcoming events like the challenge program that I brought up earlier. Uh, right now we're doing a challenge called resilience.com and we're having funding tied to that. We're going to have a future one where we look at uh, uh, AI and ML for operations on the space side. So really looking how to make that more efficient. That's uh, be coming out this fall. Then uh, our Stratify program will be coming around again this year in the fall. Most likely it'll be opening up in June and closing in August. Uh, so that's something to be on the lookout. But really all those opportunities are there. I think the biggest, uh, the biggest thing I'd recommend is, hey, it's great to work with the Space Force. SpaceWorks is really here to help. Uh, we really want to take advantage of all the great stuff that folks are doing now on the commercial side or maybe with other agencies or even other countries. Uh, I think just all working together for the common good and getting after these game changing capabilities. That's really what gets me up every morning and that's what I want to work on with companies.

Speaker B: Follow up question. You mentioned at the beginning Arthur, about sort of commercial viability being an important part of the sort of criteria that you're looking at. And I'm sort of curious when I can think of probably any number of projects or solutions where maybe that commercial viability might not have been quite as obvious or whatever. Are you guys seeing that? Is that a tough thing for a lot of these startups to sort of bridge being able to be both commercially viable and building a product that's really also finding that customer fit within the government?

Speaker C: Well, so I, I had a couple you want to tell me is like, well, uh, it's great when you can loosen the requirements so that we don't have to go too far from a commercial baseline. And that's something that we're trying to help from a military, uh, and space perspective. But I mean these companies are so creative. Uh, I was talking to a propulsion company, uh, that was telling me like, oh yeah, we built these propulsion tanks and also we do it for the medical field as well. It could carry oxygen that you can use for medical supplies. Things that I would never ever think of. Even if I look down the street, I could see we're really close to Varda Space and all the amazing things that they're doing in space with the medical field, uh, at zero gravity. These are just things that the government would never understand or know. Which is why we really lean heavy on all the great, uh, creativeness and just thought leadership from industry. Uh, that's really amazing. Talking to the CEOs, uh, folks like Topher, the energy, the passion, uh, all these amazing ideas. That's what really gets me excited.

Speaker B: That's interesting.

Speaker A: Good stuff. Um, I guess in closing you might have touched on it a little bit, Topher. But yeah, uh, anything that you want to share with our listeners in terms of what's in store, uh, for albedo over the next 12 plus months.

Speaker D: So in a few months we'll get to ve leo. Clarity one is still um, up in leo. And we will deploy our telescope cover. You can think like a lens cap on a camera once we get below all the other satellites just for space safety reasons. And we will publish our first light, our first picture, which will be very exciting. And then, um, and then yeah, there will be plenty of imagery coming off of Clarity at that very crisp 10 centimeter resolution, um, that we're excited to share. And then we'll focus on building more satellites to deploy into that constellation, be able to onboard more customers, many on the commercial side, but as well as on the, on the government side of things. Um, and then yeah, we'll have some new product lines coming out as well in the coming months that are more focused on what, uh, the benefits of Velio and what VEO can bring to the table across Other mission sets. So, uh, we're very excited.

Speaker A: Can you just uh, rattle off a couple of use cases on the commercial front that customers would be intrigued with this Veleo technology for sure.

Speaker D: So yeah, for the imagery business and that side of things today, a lot of the commercial sectors to get high resolution imagery will fly planes and drones because they need that very high resol solution. One ah, example being if you look on Google Maps or Apple Maps in cities, it says satellite view, but it's actually captured from planes. And so a big part of our mission is just making Google honest. Um, that's one area. A lot of the asset monitoring kind of use cases across like power lines for utilities or pipelines in the oil and gas. Oil and gas sector, solar farms, um, a lot of these, residential property insurance even. They all mostly rely on aircraft or even helicopters to get that resolution. And so really any of those cases, there's certain cases where they're flying like super close to a property and building a 3D model at like 1cm resolution that we'll never be able to do from space. But in most cases matching that resolution, as long as the, the quality of the characterization of roof shingles or measurements of, you know, vegetation clearance around power lines are met, then the value prop of doing it from a satellite platform is pretty obvious. It's a very scalable solution. Compared to the fragmentation today of taking those approaches, it can be on demand. It's more streamlined as they can just plug into our API. And so if I'd say, if you're listening to this as a potential customer, it's like, is it a pain to go fly planes, um, and drones today? And can 10 centimeter resolution meet the requirement of what they're trying to solve today? And that's kind of the sweet spot for us. And some of those examples, um, yeah.

Speaker A: Cool. Yeah, I guess. Uh, one last, uh, mention from Arthur before we close out with our final segment. Anything you want to just kind of highlight in terms of some key areas that you all are really excited about, uh, investing into for this next 12, 24 months.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I did mention, uh, AIML, uh, for operations. It is really challenging to be able to fly these proliferated architectures, uh, without having a huge amount of manpower on the ground. So how can you take advantage of tools, uh, to automate that? Um, uh, I think that's great, but I mean really my biggest strategic push right now is Spaceworks is just one piece of the puzzle. So our alignment to the greater, so our half a billion a year to the 40 billion a year for the Space Force budget to almost a trillion a year on the Department of Defense. And also aligning that across agencies like NASA, the intelligence community, and ultimately giving that demand signal to industry and private capital. I'm really just looking how do we scale, how do we bring all that together so that we can have these, these game changing capabilities in the hands of the warfighter. That's my big push is that uh, alignment across the government, uh, with what we can do so that we can get after the right things.

Speaker A: Yeah, excited to keep tracking it and um, just pumped for those types of opportunities to create opportunity for the commercial sector to get involved. So kudos to what you all are doing. Kudos to, for what you guys are doing building. And then uh, we'll transition to our final segment here. This is a quick of you know, rapid fire Q and A. Um, since, since uh, Arthur, this is your first go at this, Topher, your repeat. I'm going to start with you, Topher, and then Mike, you, you close with Arthur. So um, Arthur, you can take notes but they're not all, they're not going to really be the same questions though. Um, Topher, you should be a veteran at this point. You ready to go?

Speaker D: Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker A: Okay, um, if Albedo were an animal, what animal would it be?

Speaker D: Ooh, an ah, eagle.

Speaker A: Solid. What's your favorite part of uh, the culture at Albedo?

Speaker D: Say the speed and the focus on hard problems.

Speaker A: What kind of uh, technologist continues to thrive at Albedo?

Speaker D: Someone that understands physics and understands the problem but wants to continue to innovate in the right way. Not too much up front, but with the incremental ability to continue to push the limits.

Speaker A: What kind of tech roles do you think you're anticipating over the next six to 12 months?

Speaker D: Definitely, um, engineers focus on scaling up production and doing things and taking things from a, uh, 0 to 1 to a uh, 1 to 10 kind of approach, um, more vertical integration. So uh, a lot of engineers focused uh, additionally on design and not just taking something that we didn't have vertical before, but going vertical, but also uh, improving and upgrading the existing systems. So I'd say across everything, software, hardware, um, all sorts of disciplines.

Speaker A: Nice. What's the first job you ever had?

Speaker D: First real uh, job was at Lockheed Martin in Sunnyvale, um, working on large ah, remote sensing satellites for the US government. Had a great boss that, that taught me everything I, I know and he is actually our lead architect here. So it's cool for that to Come full circle.

Speaker A: I was waiting for, like, dominoes or something. Uh, the first of that job.

Speaker D: Gosh, I think a lifeguard. I. I think it was a lifeguard.

Speaker A: Lifeguard. All right, there we go. Um, what. What's your favorite space themed movie or. Or TV show?

Speaker C: Ooh,

Speaker D: Interstellar is so good. I think that's my top.

Speaker A: Nice. Uh, what's one of the most valuable, uh, pieces of advice that you've ever been given as a founder?

Speaker D: Oh, depends on the phase. Um, we learned so much in Y Combinator. We did YC Um, myself and my two co founders, and we got so much out of that. And I. The advice that kind of really was high leverage at the beginning of that was from Eric Migovsky. We were talking about doing this, like, hardware demo kind of thing for demo day, and he was like, no, no, no, just go talk to customers, like, understand their problems, understand, you know, this market, and just focus on that fully for the first two months. And that was super valuable for us.

Speaker A: That's cool. What's your favorite snack to pair along with your daily topo? Chico?

Speaker D: Oh, maybe RX bars.

Speaker A: Oh, nice. First car.

Speaker D: Toyota Camry. Named one.

Speaker A: And, uh, last question. What was your dream job as a kid?

Speaker D: Um, it was undercover. Uh, cop.

Speaker B: That's amazing.

Speaker A: That's great. I like to think he had, like, a spy kit and everything. Um, good stuff. All right, Mike, uh, you go ahead and close it out with Arthur, and then we'll wrap.

Speaker B: All right, Sounds good. Uh, here we go. Uh, explain Spaceworks to me as if I were a five year old.

Speaker C: We invest into ideas and we make them happen.

Speaker D: Nice.

Speaker B: Uh, what cultural value do you impress most upon your team?

Speaker C: To take risk. Don't be afraid to take risk. If we don't take risk, who will?

Speaker B: Nice. What types of people thrive at Spaceworks?

Speaker C: Folks that are dynamic and have an agile mindset are always pushing the boundaries.

Speaker B: Uh, what tech roles are you guys trying to fill?

Speaker C: I'd say people who understand the broad space for technology on the broad mission areas for Space Force, that we can align our portfolios.

Speaker B: Uh, what military leadership skills have been most invaluable to you?

Speaker C: Servant leadership. Uh, always seeing what you can do for the folks on your team. And really, uh, it's the team that makes it possible, not you as a leader.

Speaker B: Uh, what was your favorite childhood meal growing up?

Speaker C: Uh, so what's funny about this? I'd say chocolate. I love chocolate. But I was allergic to it, so

Speaker A: I would get high.

Speaker D: Still my favorite.

Speaker C: Still your favorite?

Speaker A: Uh, charity.

Speaker B: Yeah, Just ate Through it?

Speaker C: Yeah, I just ate through yourself.

Speaker D: Nice.

Speaker B: Uh, what, uh, charity or cause is near and dear to you?

Speaker C: I'd say just, uh, the environment. Uh, my. My. My spouse and I and Michelle, we.

Speaker D: We.

Speaker C: We love animals, and, uh, going into nature, and I think just preserving that for future generations is important. Awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, teed up this next one nicely. Um, what's your favorite pet

Speaker C: dog? Uh, so we have, uh, you know, we've had dogs throughout our lives, and we love those little guys. They're so, uh. They're always so happy and really, your best friends.

Speaker D: Nice.

Speaker B: Uh, who's your favorite Disney character?

Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Uh, that is hard.

Speaker B: Those are the tough ones.

Speaker C: I do. I do love, uh, Aladdin, uh, just because, uh, he, you know, it came from rags and winter riches, but more for, like, just from his character's perspective, how he grew.

Speaker D: Nice.

Speaker B: All right, last one. Uh, if you are handed a box of everything you've ever lost, what would be the first thing you'd look for?

Speaker C: Oh, I'd say my keys and pretty much anything that I'm put in the same spot.

Speaker A: Good stuff. Yeah, that was a deep one, Mike. Deep closer. Um, awesome. All right, well, uh, yeah, Topher, Arthur, thank you guys both for bringing, uh, your insights to the conversation today. And, uh, yeah, pushing the envelope here to modernize the Department of Defense and also areas of space tech, so. So, uh, super helpful for our listeners, and, uh, appreciate you guys joining us on the pod.

Speaker D: Thanks for having us.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you.