Why Women Over 40 Get Ignored: Does Your Brand Even See Her? | Lesley Holmes | The Owner Seat

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Owner's Seat podcast. I'm a cfo. Owners pay me to build financial models and raise capital. My guest today has written that the spreadsheet rarely tells the entire story and she has 23 years of building brands behind that claim. So today we and I find out what my models are missing. Leslie Holmes has built brands, products, businesses and teams across beauty, fashion, health and wellness, from early stage startups to companies exceeding 250mil in annual revenue. Um, she came up through Dermacia, Dermstore and JustFab. She was on the founding team at Tyra Beauty, the cosmetics and skincare company founded by Tyra Banks. At smashtech, a, uh, health and wellness brand incubator, she scaled a marketing and creative team from three people to 20 and launched three new brands. She has led brand strategy, marketing, creative product development and merchandising. What does she not do? And team of 50 plus at two companies, colleagues independently nickname her the Oracle for spotting patterns and possibilities. There's a part of the resume that doesn't show, and this is where it gets deep, y'. All. At 40, after nearly two decades of building that career, she found that behind the success, her life was unraveling. I can relate with this a ton. You all know this. Anxiety, depression, panic attacks and health challenges led her to step away and rethink her life. She lost over 65 pounds, rebuilt her life around purpose, and returned corporate leadership as the CMO Chief Marketing Officer at Creme Collective. Today she's the founder of Beneath the Gloss. What a name. And she works three ways for brands and operators. She does advisory office hours to pick her brain on specific challenges. Workshops on what's next opportunity audits, and a limited number of ongoing brand engagements for founders, business and personal advisory so that they stay clear, energized and aligned with what they built and why they built the business in the first place. And for anyone at a turning point, I love this one on one transformational coaching plus a woman's workshop launching in mid February. Can't wait to chat about that. Built on her internal rebrand framework. Here's how. Here's why I wanted Leslie on. She says what's underneath the wellness boom is much bigger than working out. Her advice to anyone building a brand right now is to focus on what she calls the thing beneath the thing. I want to know what that is, and I can't wait to chat. Leslie, welcome to the Owner's Seat podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: My pleasure. I got to kick it off, I got to say. And I'm Sorry to interrupt you. And we're going to jump right in.

Speaker B: It's okay.

Speaker A: But for those that are listening, they know how important faith is to me. And y' all didn't see this. This is, uh, behind the scenes. But right when we were kicking things off, Leslie had an opportunity to pray with me. She actually led it. And I just wanted to tell you I really appreciate that. I feel so good. It was just nice to kick this morning off with you doing that. And so thank you. No one's ever done that with me before.

Speaker B: I love that. Yeah. Everything I do, when appropriate, I always like to lead a grounding, meditation, prayer, whatever you want to call it. But getting us connected to one another, to the moment in our bodies, and connected to God so that we can serve, you know, in the best way

Speaker A: possible. Good. I love that. All that is wonderful. I feel wonderful. And yes, I feel very connected. So let's jump in. I mentioned it at the top and I'm sure it, it stuck out to people. So Tyra Beauty with Tyra Banks, right, The cosmetics and skincare company. What led you to jump into that brand? And, and as I was reviewing and did my research, then the team did their research. I mean, you grew marketing, what, from a, from a performance base, 182% year over year in revenue. Super impressive results. Walk us through how you did that from the ground up.

Speaker B: Yeah, that one was a little bit of a rocket ship. Obviously it was associated with Tyra bank. So that is just a nice starting off recognition point. But I, I believe I was the third hire there and was, uh, brought in to consult on their brand strategy and quickly joined the team permanently and, and led the product development, marketing, creative functions and more. And, and that was a really interesting company because we were building both a, uh, direct sales model, a social selling model, as well as a D2C model. That hadn't really been done. And I think what was unique about that company is we gave women a permission to be. To have fun with makeup. Like one of the products was called Smack My Fat Lash. And instead of making everything about it was just. I'm trying to think of the right word to say it, but just have fun with it and not take it so seriously that, uh, it's cool to dress up, it's cool to want to feel good. Your skin. It's what

Speaker A: it's

Speaker B: nice to want to have your own business and live life your own way. And a little irreverent, but also playful. And there wasn't really a brand happening in that Space at that moment doing that. It was all very over the top, performative makeup or kind of chic, simple, minimalist. And we kind of played this middle ground and also spoke to women about taking ownership of their life and being able to have their own business and work their own way at their own speed online selling products. So it was a really great moment. I think it kind of struck when the markets were shifting and people were starting to do social selling. And yeah, it was a really fun ride. Just kind of building it from scratch and watching it take off and empowering women all over the country.

Speaker A: And you've done that a bunch of different times, especially as you brought it up. You come in as a consultant and there's been a couple times I think of Creme Collective and even the, um, power of digital marketing. You come in as a consultant, you turn executive. So walk us through that. Like, what do you see and why does it become more of a full time thing? Right. I do fractional work and

Speaker B: yeah,

Speaker A: more often than not it's, you know, you're sticking around, but every now and then you're bouncing, bouncing around to a different brand. But I love that you get really sticky. And then I'm curious, when you walk into that brand, what do you look for first and what are some of the blind spots you're looking for? And then how do you know? And sorry, I'm just through a, uh, third question at you, so we'll unravel it. But how do you know when it's something like, okay, we need to fix this versus scrap it? We are pivoting.

Speaker B: Um, let me talk about Power Digital. So I was brought in there to help a department that was underperforming. And I think what I do differently is I look at the whole ecosystem. I don't come in with a preconceived notion of what's going on. I'm looking at the people, I'm looking at the processes. I'm trying to understand why things aren't functioning. So with Power Digital, there was a lot of things happening. Number one, they were running that department like the rest of the company and it functioned very different. The it wasn't in performance marketing. A lot of times, for example, things are quick and moving fast. Well, this was the life cycle retention team. So we were looking at things over time, but they were trying to drive the department like something that was a weekly performance when it's like a nine month performance. So helping the rest of the company understand the model of that department was really important. I also Looked at the people and unfortunately there was some, some really kind of toxic people that were bringing the energy down. And I had to make some uncomfortable decisions to let some people go. But we ended up cutting the team by almost a third and having much bigger productivity because people were happier. They also felt like they weren't seen. And I think that's so important with clients and with your employees that they feel seen, they feel heard. And I gave them a space to be listened to. So I really spent the first month just interviewing people, observing, watching what was happening, hearing behind the scenes. I improved processes, I improved efficiencies. I brought some people in from overseas that could help with work and speed that up. I extended the expectations of when they would get results with the financial department, you know, I sat down with the finance team and was like, this team works very different than the other teams. Let's talk about how to adjust the pricing model. And so it was a really comprehensive look at everything that was happening. Not just margins, not just churn, you know, like it was everything. And I think that's how I approach every company that I go into. I listen, I watch, I observe, I see the things people aren't saying. I see, I go into meetings and see the undercurrents, uh, of tension that other people aren't paying attention to, where they're just looking at the top line numbers but they're not looking at the people and the energy systems and where things are blocked and not flowing. Um, and as I said, it could be many different things. I think I'm just open, like I just don't go in with an idea of what's wrong. I obviously have my experience and I obviously have my intuition, but I listen really, really deeply and just pay attention.

Speaker A: We obviously have a gift of communication and relationship management. I just hear resource management, the fact that you go in and you're weaving and collaborating with different departments. It's a skill set and a gift and it seems like you've done it really naturally. And look, colleagues are, they call you the Oracle. Walk me through that. And I can only imagine it's because you're able to identify bad versus this is the real thing when it comes to brand. Uh, what are your thoughts on that? The Oracle? I love it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it comes into a lot of different layers and I'll give you a few fun examples. So I'll be in client pitch meetings and they'll get off and everyone is like, they're so happy they're going to do it. I was like, no, they're not. They are not saying no. And here's the one thing they didn't like. And they're like, you are so wrong. I'm like, okay, let's see. And then, of course, the client comes back and says, this is my one sticking point and this is why we're not going to sign. And again, it's me just paying attention to subtle movements and things of how they're operating or where they take a deep breath or pause. So that's part of it. Just again, seeing where there's disconnects and things are broken between people. That's another one. Often I will. This happened a few times. I was like, you know, I'd really love some pet clients, because I see pets are coming up, and then the next day someone will email and say, you know, pet client. So people would always joke, like Leslie say, we need $300 million so we could have that happen. Um,

Speaker A: and then,

Speaker B: of course, it's seeing where things are going and just sensing again, I think it's because I watch, I pay so close attention to what people are doing, what they're liking, what they're wearing, what they're talking about, what they're emotional needs are. And when you're building a brand and building a retention plan, that's so important that you're playing into the undercurrents of what do they need? Do they need belonging? Do they want connection? Do they want adventure? You know, what. What is the thing that's driving them? And I guess that's what we were talking about, the thing beneath the thing.

Speaker A: Right. Um,

Speaker B: it's. For example, if you talk about Jeep as a car company, they're selling adventure. They're selling freedom. Yeah. It comes in the form of a car, you know, or if you look at a bank, they're also selling freedom, but they're selling freedom from financial worry. So their messaging is landing around, you know, like, safety, taking care of you, having your needs met, having someone that makes you feel seen and understood. And I think when it comes to wellness brands, you know, what are you selling them? The opportunity to do, to feel better, to feel more alive, to feel more vibrant, or at gyms, to feel connected, to have a place to. To see your friends that, you know, recognizes you. Or like CrossFit Hyrocks. Those are two great examples of getting so niche with. It's an identity. Right. Like, you

Speaker A: are

Speaker B: so tied. Yeah. To that brand.

Speaker A: It's so interesting. And I've gotten to chatting with you quite a bit here now over the Last what, couple months or so. And, um, I've gotten a taste of what your one on one coaching would be like. And one of the big things that keep, that keeps coming back and you know, I've told you this is the idea of limiting beliefs. And one thing that I've learned about you is, and as we did our research and I've learned more about you is when someone says something's not possible, it's interesting. Your approach and your reframing is, well, if we had to do it, what would need to be true? Why can we do that? From your lens and brand and marketing and all that?

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I always joke that I feel like one of the reasons I was put on this earth is to help people achieve their dreams. And that sounds so cheap, but I used to watch American Idol and I would cry all the time and I'm like, why am I crying at this show? And it was because seeing people chase their dreams, like, there's just something about that that lights me up. And, and it's so often we just tell ourselves all these reasons that things aren't possible, that we can't do it. And in man, there's a lot of different layers I'm going to pull through here. But I love the idea of magic. And to me, that is often like these universal synchronicities that just happen and you're like, how did that happen? And so tapping into that energy and training our brain to see possibility versus roadblocks. And it's a practice. There's so many possibilities out there, but our default is always saying, no, we can't make that work. We can't do that. But what if, what if you start training your brain that way? What if there was a bigger possibility? And I use this skill set a lot with engineers, so I've managed a lot of development teams, people coding, and their first answer to me is always no. And I was like, okay, but what if we did it this way? They're like, no, no, no, no. And then eventually they start getting their wheels turning. And I heard another example of this too. And I can't remember the person he was on with, but I'm sure you know Lewis Howes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh,

Speaker B: he was on with someone who's now a billionaire and his company was, I think at that time was doing 500 million. And he asked him, well, what would it take to get to 1 billion or 2 billion? And the guy's answer was, no, not possible. I can't. And he's like, okay, but what would you have to do. And he's like, I can't. And then he started mapping out the things. Okay, well, I would have to shoot shift this. I'd have to sell this company. I'd have to allocate resources over here. I'd have to hire. I'd have to get laser focused. But he found a way. And the next time he came back, he did it. And so, so often we just are telling ourselves stories that aren't true. Or it could be true if that's what you choose to be. But if you wanted a different possibility, think about what that would look like. And maybe you can't make it happen tomorrow, but maybe you can. And I think there's another layer to it, though, is also making sure it aligns with you. Because so often what we think we want is old versions of ourselves, or it's pleasing our mom and dad, or it's societal conditioning. And some people do want to run it $2 billion business, but some people would be happy with something small and attainable and not having 30 people report into them. And so I think it's so important when you're building things to actually be really honest and listen to what it is that you want. Because sometimes things don't work out for us because they're not actually what we want. Or we get burnt out because we're trying to push a boulder up a hill that we didn't even want to carry in the first place.

Speaker A: My goodness, I could relate with that for sure. Let's tap into your intuition. Clearly you have a gift of seeing far out. We chatted about this. It seems like it's just something that's always been there for you. What are you seeing in the health and wellness space or even the wellness and longevity space? And where do you think everything's going?

Speaker B: Yeah, so there. Let's. Let's have a discussion about this. But I. I see so much of what's happening as a return to humanity and a deep. I say this word aliveness a lot. And it's this desire to be human again, you know, to like, feel good in our bodies, to feel alive, to wake up excited. And it's manifesting in a lot of different ways. Look at. Run clubs. Run clubs, to me have such deeper meaning. It's about connection. It's about getting outside, which fundamentally, as a human, we need to move our bodies. We are meant to move. We are meant to be in communion with others. We are meant to be in nature. We're not meant to be staring at tiny little Screens. And we are meant to be in community. We're meant to have identity. I mean, I think run clubs are just this microcosm of this deep human desire to be human. Right. And when you look at this kind of. I mean, they're saying optimization is dead. I don't believe that's true, but I believe over optimization is dead. I believe this stressfulness that we have to do 87 things every day just to be qualified, you know, and you're

Speaker A: watching me this morning. That's how I felt.

Speaker B: Uh, did you?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Actually, I would love to know, because optimization doesn't stress me out, but I think because I'm so well internally resourced, I'm like, I know I didn't sleep well, but I still want to see how much deep sleep I got. But what stresses you out about it?

Speaker A: What's funny, it's not necessarily self optimization. It's the fact that with the technology nowadays, whether it's automation or my favorite AI or they call it super intelligence now, right. Is that everyone then expects that speed every single time.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: and there's, I think, unless it's fully automated, which in finance, for now, it can't be. Right. There's some scrubbing, there's some checking. There's almost. There's only so much your brain can handle over time. Right. When you're doing. And I've done this, you have different monitors on my phone. There's Claude Cowork on a desktop doing its thing, but you're doing 12 things at once. Eventually your brain's like, this is not. I wasn't made for this. Like, maybe the tech is, but my brain wasn't made for this. In addition to all the other, you know, personal life demands. And so I found myself there this morning. Uh, I thought it was really interesting. Well, granted, yes, productivity and deliverables are faster. The expectation then, from the humans on the other side is, okay, great. So this is your speed at all times? Yeah. I'm like, oh, my goodness, I might need to manage expectations a little bit.

Speaker B: Do you feel like it's the same quality of work that's being put out?

Speaker A: It's better.

Speaker B: Better?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think so, yeah. It's just faster. And I think that's what, that's what shocks the system. It's like, wow, not only is it good, but how the heck did we all get this done so quickly? So the rate of speed is sign. The expectation of speed. And back to the top. Right. When you're talking about burnout and the boulder and it's like we're doing this to ourselves in a sense. It's like the. Until it's agent on agent while we're still human, aloof. It's like, whoa, yeah, we're more productive. And I find the deliverable, and so do others, the deliverables to be better. But I just don't think our brains have evolved to be at this speed, let alone like all these other different inputs. I have a theory around, you know, the brain going haywire with all of these, like, all the blue light and all the screens. And it's like we, we haven't. We're. We're being outpaced, significantly outpaced by the tech.

Speaker B: Yes. I think that's even a big drive to wellness and wanting to feel good. And people can't name what's making them sick. Right. They can't name what's making them reject it, but they want to not be on screen. We came out at Covid where there was that disconnection and everything's happening online. And now a lot of the younger generation are like, I don't, I want to go back to analog. And they don't even know why, but they're sensing it. Right. And so they're searching for a product that makes them feel better. They're searching for a place that gives them meaning. They're searching, searching for nature. They're connecting with awe. There's this huge movement back to even spirituality. And I read something yesterday about everyone's so tired of optimizations that sound baths are making another big comeback because people just want to come down and connect.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, I wrote something, I think it was yesterday or the day before about all of these inputs and whether or not they're serving us. And I talked about, about AI and business productivity. Like, is more better, Are we actually integrating it? Because there's so many companies that are putting pressure on everyone to pick a new tool every day to, uh, figure out how to integrate that new tool. Well, are you getting more work out of it? Like, how much time are you spending making people have 10 different AI tools? And are they using their brain? Are they using executive functioning? And I think the same thing happens in personal growth. Like you. A lot of times people are reading a book a week, but are they integrating it? Are they actually putting this into action is actually changing their life.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I don't think that more is always better. Um, I think that I love AI. I use it every day. I'm not anti AI, but it doesn't think for me, it's an assistant that speeds up processes so I can get proposals and things out better, faster. I mean some of our AI tools, even LinkedIn and Meta, they're scrubbing for AI voices and deprioritizing them. Our systems are rejecting it and I think it's manifesting in a lot of ways, including wellness because people want to feel human and alive again.

Speaker A: Interesting. Well, switch gears into the consumer. You obviously follow and understand the consumer way ahead than when they even know. But you wrote something the other day and I spent a lot of time in the boutique space. Pilates. Do you think Pilates is in a Pilates uh, bubble right now? Is it about a pop?

Speaker B: Well, you know that I love Legree. I taught it. I started at Sebastian's very first studio in la. I um, wasn't teaching then but when I had my personal revolution and left the corporate world I started doing that and Reiki. I think that Pilates is growing. So if you look at company or company countrywide data, the numbers are showing that they're interest in Pilates signups for Pilates class attendance is still scaling and I believe that to be true. Where I made a reference to is on my little street like three new studios opened up and I know people who own studios on that street and they can't fill their classes. So I think people are not looking necessarily they're looking at global countrywide data but they're not actually looking at can their tiny market sustain another studio. Is there interest in what they're offering? Is there enough differentiation that they can do that? Will they have to go on class pass to fill their classes and will that actually be able to afford that? You know and I some um, studios around here that have got, they're considering closing because they're getting two people in their classes. Like it or not. That's how a lot of people are trying studios. So if they're. But I do know studios that are on ClassPass and other cities that can still charge a premium. The ones around me can't because there's so many of them. And so when I was driving down my street and I saw three more opening, I was like who's, who's making these financial decisions? They need to be talking to you and asking them to do a little market analysis to see if it makes

Speaker A: so interesting. Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. I get an opportunity to look at the hood and I won't name any brands but you can see that there is hand to hand combat right now and just slicing the dollar down to the bottom line. And it's getting smaller and smaller. And I think this is why private equity is having a tough time, because the delta has significantly shortened. And granted, there might be an opportunity there, but the margins are very, very slim. To your point on your street, I can only imagine you're probably looking at single digits. If not, there's probably a float and some are underwater. And, um, there potentially is, uh, either consolidation will occur or there will be a fallout for sure. I'm, um, I'm curious to see what happens.

Speaker B: Yeah, me too. Especially I think right now too, where people are craving so much community. So m. I have one studio that I go to that joined into a larger fitness community. And in that space they have two group fitness spaces. They have personal training, they have a legree studio, but they also have a podcast studio, they have a cafe, they have a doctor that's doing peptides. And people are wanting these spaces where they can do everything in one. I think boutiques are struggling because again, this deep desire for community and I have spaces that I go to that I know that's where I make my friends, that's where I see my friends. And then I go to my Pilates studio because I love the workout, but I don't get the same camaraderie that I do at other gyms or in run clubs. And people really want that stuff right now and you know, market swings. But right now everyone is wanting connection. Even if you look at big brands like Ralph Lauren, opened up a coffee shop, VMA is looking at buying Hyrox. Like people are trying to buy in person connection. And I think that's so fundamental to anyone working in wellness or fitness right now is figuring out how to create IRL experiences. Is the kids say

Speaker A: for those that are like me, millennials and all that that means in real life, this is what the kids are saying. R I R L so. And you posted something about LT Social. I came from Lifetime, so I love that they're doing that. And they obviously have the square footage to do that. But then I think of like other shit from Robbie and that team on how they're building community or Alchemy Springs, check them out in Northern California. And they're just. You're right. I think people are just thirsty for this human connection. Some of them are even creating a platform where, hey, forget the apps and your phone, come to our wellness spot. And this is where you can actually meet people that are like minded and maybe turns into something, who knows? So I think that's, uh, I Think it's pretty cool. Even this whole like alcohol free thing. And like,

Speaker B: totally.

Speaker A: I, I'm actually, I'm, I'm digging it. I'm, I'm liking it. I'm, I'm, I'm not in that space yet, but I'll get there maybe. But uh, yeah, I like it a lot. One thing that I

Speaker B: love, have you heard of the Dardies campuses? It's alcohol free daytime parties.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: They're dancing or they're running or they're going to saunas. And there's this beautiful nightclub space that's all wellness and alcohol free that launched in New York. And you know, there's, there's so much movement around it and so much possibility. I think it's sometimes hard for smaller brands to think about how to participate. But for example, I was talking to this longevity clinic in the Midwest and I was like, what if you just did workshops for the community and teach them? You know, everyone is hungry to learn but they don't know. It's, they feel overwhelmed. There's so much information and we're embedded in this industry and so it feels a little more approachable to us. But even some of my good friends are like, what do I take? What do I do? Where do I go? They need help, you know, and so think about even just community ways that you can participate and make it easy. It doesn't have to be complicated. People want to come together. Give them a reason to come together.

Speaker A: So funny when you bring up alcohol free college day drinking or partying or whatever. Just brings me back to some, some crazy days. Little, little cake stands and then beer Olympics. But I guess things are changing. Things are a change.

Speaker B: College days were not alcohol free, I would assume.

Speaker A: Yeah, no. So I love that you and you post a lot about this. You, you promote women empowerment, women leadership, even the, the, the woman consumer and her purchasing power and that you feel like a lot of brands are still not connecting the dots there. Can you walk us through that and what you mean and how are you, how are you solving for this? How are you helping the situation?

Speaker B: There's so many layers to that. I'm um, going to tell a quick story. So I was recently contacted by a brand that's in the telehealth space and they do peptides, GLPs, all that stuff. And then they also are launching an arm of their business to cater to hormone health as they should. Huge underserved market. And so they wanted some branding advice and I was like, easy, great, love that. And then they actually wanted me to create content. And I was like, sure, I can create content. I'm very vocal online about perimenopause and my journey there. And I go look at the landing page where my content would be driving them to. And it was all women with gray hair in like loose fitting clothing, like in nature, you know. And I was like, you guys, if anyone follows me, they're gonna have such a disconnect when they land there. And it was interesting because even the women that were running the program, one of them was also in perimenopause. She didn't look like that, but it didn't even occur to her, you know, so there's like this weird societal thing where they still think that we're the golden girls and yet none of us look like it, right? And then, but online there's all these young men that want to date women in their 40s and JLo is super hot in her 50s. And so it's just like this weird societal shift where we still are in some capacity thinking about women my age as old or outdated. And we're not creating materials or brands or content that actually speak to us. Anytime I post about it, I mean, my comments, my DMs blow up. I mean, women are hungry to be spoken to. And there's a few brands in beauty that are doing it, like Sansi with Pamela Anderson, Molly Sims has a brand. We are just such an underserved market and I think, as you probably know, none of the research has been done on women. So there's just this huge opportunity for women's health and hormones and platforms speaking to that. I think there's societal norms that we have to break through. But also I've talked to some companies and when I go in there, everyone that works there is under 40. So they like literally don't know how to speak to the consumer. So they're hiring. There's some specialized agencies popping up to speak to, you know, women over 45. But it's a huge market. And with longevity booming, we're going to be living longer and longer. People over 40 or even over 60 are much more loyal to brands. They have much more expendable income. And I wrote about this in something else, but if you look at what they call the silver economy, which is, um, anyone over 60, the silver economy in the United States is the third largest world economy. So it goes all of the U.S. all of China, and then us over 60. And they spend on beauty and they spend on health, but we're not talking to them. Uh, so it's such a missed opportunity for brands to start figuring out, what do these people want? How do we create marketing materials that cater to them? And, you know, I was talking to a local gym here that just opened, and I was like, you should do a night for women, you know, in their 40s and 50s and teach them how to lift weights. Because women are finally figuring out muscle's not gonna make me look bulky. It's the number one indicator of longevity. It helps with brain health, all these different things, but they still feel confused. And so take. Take down the barriers for them to come into your brand. Think about what they need, think about what they want and speak to them, because it's not the generation that it used to be. And frankly, as business owners, I think you're leaving money on the table.

Speaker A: What are your thoughts? And you've written a lot about this. And in 26, it seems like it finally clicked for us that there's just far too much fragmentation in the market. And as you think of the human body, from beauty to mental health to wellness and all of those things, it's starting to come together where 2026 is probably the year of integration, Right? This ecosystem, I think you even mentioned, and you gave a shout out to Ulta Beauty. They're doing something really good there. And what they're doing around branding and just thinking about the whole lifestyle life cycle type of thing. Walk me through that. What do you think is going on there?

Speaker B: Well, I think people are just finally figuring out biology. I don't know. We're a whole human, right? When you wake up in the morning, yes, you're looking at your skin, but you're like, how do I feel? How did I sleep? That affects your skin, that affects your mood. Am I having strong interpersonal relationships? Am I lonely? Like, loneliness is an epidemic that is as dangerous what they say is smoking. And so we are a whole being. And I think people are finally realizing that, uh, you know, like, when you are healthy on the inside, your skin glows. When your mitochondria is functioning well, your hair grows. I mean, all of these things are so fundamental, you can't separate them out from a human being. And thankfully, people are finally talking about it. I do think it's a little bit overdone. Like, everything is being called wellness now. And I think that's a little bit crazy. Um, I don't think we've hit the tipping point. I joke, like, is there going to be a wellness trash can soon? Like, what? You know, what is it?

Speaker A: I want one of those

Speaker B: but I think underneath that there's actually a bigger term that is like well being. And that I think is what people are searching for in there's adults sleepaway camps now. People want to have fun, they want to play, they want to be creative beings that were meant here to do and. But they want to feel good. If you feel sick at the end of the day, if you don't have your health, you can't do anything. And I think people are get getting that. But it's not necessarily that. Everyone wants to have a six pack, they want to be able to put a suitcase up, they want to run around with their grandkids, they want to feel good and alive. So many women now in their 40s and 50s and 60s are starting businesses and

Speaker A: they

Speaker B: want the energy to do that. And a lot of women I know they're not necessarily chasing looking young but they want to look hot, they

Speaker A: want

Speaker B: to feel good, you know, but they don't necessarily want to be 20. And so it's reconfiguring around what are the needs of a person and what are we actually looking for. And I think underneath that is just like a lot of well being, you know, like the blue zones where they look at what actually happens there. I mean they walk, they have friends,

Speaker A: they

Speaker B: pursue passions, they have community, they eat mostly healthy, very different diets.

Speaker A: Right. Uh,

Speaker B: I think we're kind of just like coming back to that again and a lot of it's being expressed in the health and wellness industry.

Speaker A: I think you're right. It's funny. And I spend time in the longevity space, we both do. And I still a part of me just doesn't buy it. Of course there's a ton of capital flowing through, everyone's excited, peptides, GLPs, hormones. And I think that will continue. But I think it, I think it only lasts so long. I think we've done this for ages on um, we're going to live longer and then you like get like a year more. You know like science is like uh, doesn't really do anything, just sleep and move, get sunlight is like uh, we've talked about all this, we're spending all this money and that's it. It's like the basics. What I'm banking on is that humans are and because of tech we get lazier and lazier. So I actually am banking less on longevity and even sometimes movement and more on. I feel like many are just we're. And I'll put myself in it too. We're very vain and I'm banking on beauty just continuing to explode with the tech and the science and if that weaves its way in into wellness, great. But I think from a business perspective, um, what I'm looking for is like all the cool things around like skin and cosmetics and dermatology and hair and all of these different things in the, in the beauty world. And so um, I'm looking forward to that. That's fun because I, I need a lot of samples. If anyone's out there, send me samples, I'll promote it.

Speaker B: Listen, vanity is always good to be there. I don't think that there's anything wrong with vanity, but when I talk to people that are looking to transform their life, vanity is not enough. You need a bigger motivation to keep you going to the gym. Right. If that was true, everyone on January 1st would still be there on October 4th.

Speaker A: So true.

Speaker B: There has to be a deeper motivation for why you're doing these things. For behaviors and habits and even products to stick into your life, they have to deliver on some promise. Um, I do believe that vanity is a big driver. But even if you look at where money is going right now, people are a uh, little more invested in investing in feeling good and less money is going into looking good in meaning like topical products. Right. Like people are realizing that can only do so much. But if they feel good, if their cells are functioning like that's going to go a longer way to making them stay looking good.

Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. I like it.

Speaker B: And with longevity, here's the other thing. How many of us can afford to live for forever? Right now I can't afford to live to 120. That's uh, that's great. If science gets there, I think that is something AI is going to help with. Definitely is improving lifespan and health span. But you've ever to get there.

Speaker A: Right? That's a good point. It's a good point. So you chat a lot about the human behind the consumer and the human behind the brand. And so I thought as we're coming up to time, I want to respect your time but I wanted enough time to chat about you because you have a pretty intense story, um, that I can relate with by the way. I say intense but I'm like I've been there too so I can relate with it. But I'd love for you to share. I mean I mentioned it at the top, what you, you turned 40. I mean you're just firing at all engines right? From ah, an executive in your career and all of that stuff. But something pivoted Something changed. I used the word unraveling and I probably should use another word. It was more. There's just kind of a. Kind of a fork in the road that occurred and so you stepped away. Can you walk us? Like, what happened? You're very public about this, so I'd love. For those that don't know or haven't followed you yet, it's a one intense story, but also a very inspiring story. Um, I think I've mentioned on other shows most of my listeners are owners and franchisors, franchisees, many of them women. Like, if you look at the stats, it's about 70%. And so I think this is gonna hit pretty hard.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I. I think I wanna. I wanna remember to talk a little bit about alignment, uh, and values at the end or after this. I think it's a helpful takeaway. But I. At 40, I had a great job building companies, scaling them. I was living in this beautiful apartment overlooking the water in San Diego, and I couldn't leave my apartment. I was having such bad panic attacks. And I would watch people, uh, go by on a boat and think, like, will I ever go on a boat again? And I love farmer's markets. And I would. I lived one block from one and I would see people walking there. And I hadn't been in three months because just the thought of leaving my apartment and being in crowds like that was so overwhelming, I couldn't do it. And about a month after I turned 40, I had. I. There was probably about three months. Every day I would wake up and say, I've got to do something different. I've got to do something different. And I think I used to have this hope that, like, someone would save me. I literally had a visual of like, you know, those kids toy games where, like, the crane comes? I just was like, someone come and pluck me out of my existence. And at some point I realized it wasn't going to happen. I was drinking every day, all day, basically. I, as you mentioned, weighed 65 pounds more. I was having massive panic attacks.

Speaker A: I

Speaker B: think at some point I didn't leave my place for like, almost three months. I hadn't driven in a year. And I was unhealthy. You know, my body was failing me in all aspects and I call it an implosion. So I guess it's an unraveling. But I. When I look back on it, there was a variety of things that happened that helped me creep into this deep depression and, and things I didn't deal with traumas I didn't deal with. And there was a lot of stuff that had to be healed, and I spent. So eventually I left my job, and then I spent the next nine months healing. And I did everything from therapy, EMDR to Eastern western psychics. All I did all the stuff, and I meditated deeply. And there were big traumas that I needed to heal from, and I don't want to discount that. But some of the hardest things that I had to go through were patterns and conditioning and living someone else's life and living someone else's dreams and chasing a thing that didn't align with what I truly wanted and what I valued. And I remember sitting on my floor meditating one day, and because it was Covid, I had all the time in the world to sit and meditate. So I think it was like two hours, and my eyes popped open and I thought, oh, my God, I've never really loved myself. And. And, oh, uh, that might make me cry now. And I was like, I like myself, and I know I've done good things. But everything in my life had always been predicated on what I had achieved, what value I was providing. And I didn't have, like, a deep cellular love for myself, just. And that had shaped always trying to prove my worth, always shape shifting and being such a sensitive being. I was seeing, you know, feeling everyone's emotions, trying to make people happy, and compartmentalizing the spiritual person I am that loves working out, that is into fashion and makeup and trying to be all these separate things. Um, and at that moment, I was like, I can't live like this anymore. I'm not living authentically as me. And. And so I decided not to. So I didn't go back to work. I got certified in Reiki and I got certified in Legree and eventually in life coaching and in human design. And I started allowing myself to pursue all the things that brought me alive. And eventually I realized, you know what? I do love marketing, I do love building brands, and I love beauty, and I love wellness. And that's okay. I can be many things. And went back to work in that. But what I learned in that, um, on what I teach people now, is don't live someone else's life. Don't live that conditioning. Make sure that when you are pushing a boulder up a hill, it's a boulder that you want to carry. You know, I m met with a woman two days ago who was in the process of acquiring a business. And everything in her was heavy when she was talking about it. And she's Like, I just don't know how to push this ball forward. And I said, do you even want that ball? And then she just started crying, and she's like, I don't know, you know? And I think so much of our life, we're just on autopilot and we're going, and it's Groundhog Day, and we never take a step back to say, like, is this what I want? Is this what I value? Is this what makes me feel good? And so in that process, I got really connected to what I want. And I think that's also why I love helping people build their dream, their big dream, when they're building something alive that's so aligned and so authentically them, but then also doing it in a healthy way, in a sustainable way, and not burning myself out and understanding how I operate and what I need to feel good. And. And so now that really shapes the brands I choose to work with, the people I choose to work with, the guidance I do, the coaching that I do, everything comes down to just, like, helping people feel more alive, more authentic, more lit up. And I think when we live that way, abundance follows, opportunity follows, joy follows, and it looks different for everyone. But when you're, you know, when you're in flow and you know, when you're fighting against, like, who you came here to be.

Speaker A: Wow. First off, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I know I've heard it before, and, um, you've. You added some more detail that I didn't know about, so I really appreciate that. And I'm sure those that haven't heard that before, um, are feeling the same way and probably can relate. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to this. This is what it's for. And this is the raw and the real. This is. This is some of the dark that we all go through or are going through right now. So before we go, I do want to chat about just. I mentioned it at the top, and I want to make sure people understand how much support and how available you are to support. You have. You're launching something mid February. Do you want to chat about that? As well as some of the other things you do just with the time that we have left, and then I'll let you go because I know you have some other stuff to go and do.

Speaker B: So I'm launching the first one actually mid November, so I just wanted.

Speaker A: Oh, beautiful.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I'll probably do another one in February. So that is called the internal rebrand. So I created this system of identity, shifts so when you're moving through something, stepping into a new chapter, or you just want to feel more alive and aligned and abundant, um, or you're building a new business, whatever it is, we take a step back and get really clear on who you are, who you want to be. And so that when you are building something new, you're operating from that aligned, connected place. I coach people one on one that are stepping into new chapters, uh, intuitive business coach, helping you keep aligned with your mission, your vision, your values, and building your business from that space. And then with brands, I do some selective ongoing brand work. But what I've been loving lately is doing workshops and office hours and just allowing people to pick my brain and do even creative brainstorms as you're planning for the new year. Like, let me help you think and dream bigger and then bring my knowledge of where everything is going. Living in la, having these connections to seeing where the industry's coming and helping you figure out how to apply that to your business so you stay ahead of the curve and giving people what they need. But also, I'm always thinking at the of the human at the center of it and making sure that it works for that person.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, good. I'll make sure to put all the details in the show notes. This has been outstanding and such a pleasure. This was more about, um, the wellness and beauty and fitness and longevity, uh, kind of outlook. And so I really appreciate you sharing that as well as your vow value framework, your story, and all of it from a marketing lens as well. I know we didn't hit too much on finance, which is good. Y' all are tired of that. We need to hear more marketing. We need to hear more coaching and all of that. So if this is Yalls first time tuning in this act, these episodes actually drop every Monday and Friday at 8:00am Central. And, uh, Leslie, I just wanted to say thank you so much for your time. We. We could chat for hours. I know you gotta go, but, um, I just wanted to thank you and, uh, I appreciate you all listening and watching as well.

Speaker B: Yes, thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you so much.