Are Clubs the Last Place Solving Loneliness?

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: welcome everyone to today's podcast. And today we are traveling across the ditch to our beautiful cousins there in New Zealand. I have the honor and privilege of having a guest today that I have known through the industry for many years but have never had the opportunity to connect face to face. Lucy Wateris is the uh, chief executive of Clubs New New Zealand and has spent most of her career working alongside clubs at every level, from behind the bar to the boardroom. She's deeply passionate about the role clubs play in New Zealand communities and works closely with clubs to understand their challenges, support their governance and operations. An advocate for the sector with government and regulators, Lucy is practical people, focused and firmly believes strong clubs mean stronger communities. Thank you so much for joining me, Lucy. It's lovely to be having this conversation with you.

Speaker B: Thank you. It is so great to be here.

Speaker A: So you know, bios are wonderful. They always give us that little bit of an overview. But you know, you've been in the industry for a number of years and you know, even though New Zealand and Australia are um, very close and we, our uh, clubs are similar, New Zealand has different regulations and different ways that they connect with their communities and why they're there. So I really want to get into that because that me is just so important because that connection with communities is key to the heart of, of every club. But of course also with the hospitality industry, it's creating this awareness more than ever now that this is a wonderful industry to be in. So get in there and start off on the ground like you did and work through and here you are now CEO and in the boardroom. So you know, I've said you've worked alongside clubs in, on every level from that, that first entry point now into the boardroom. But from uh, from those points, what have clubs actually need that you haven't or couldn't have learned just from a policy document or at a boardroom table? I'd love to know that.

Speaker B: That's ah, gosh, when I reflect on my time in clubs and you know I, I started out 17, 17 plus, or actually it was probably closer to 20 years ago working in clubs and as a fresh faced, glassy and then worked through behind the bar and whatnot, the first thing that comes to mind without a doubt is the people, uh, that is at the heart of what clubs are. And so I think it's about understanding the needs of the members, having the perspective of what those frontline staff are needing, but also being able to connect with the, and the governance as well. So yeah, it's getting those connections. And you know, my fondest memories of even working in the clubs, uh, like the three guys that would come in every Sunday at 2:00 on the dot and they were just there um, to catch up and connect with peers or you know, it's the volunteers that are uh, there uh, week on week supporting the club. That's, it's that people element that you can't learn from policy, documents and paper.

Speaker A: It's so true. And I think every, every club has got a table of knowledge and that's what those three men are. Yeah, but you're right, you know, clubs are there. It's about that feeling of connection and now more than ever we need that connection. And I was looking at some research uh, the other day and we're just saying that the most loneliest generation globally is Gen Z. And which is absolutely quite frightening because you think, well here they are. They're highly connected, but they're connected on um, these things.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And they don't have that, that, that, that opportunity to meet, you know, the meeting online. And so getting them back, you know, into clubs, getting them to see that there's a place for them and for their friends to, to grow but also to, to meet others in other generations. I think there's a lot of myths, you know, and I'm sure you've found it Lucy, over the years, you know, baby boomers are like this and you know, Gen Z's and Gen Y's, they're like that. And then when they actually get to work together, uh, or they get to have a conversation together, those myths, you know, and those walls come down and those assumptions about each other. But we've got to get them in the room, you know, that, that old fashioned water cooler conversation around the office. What can that club support?

Speaker B: Yeah, the chats across the leaners. Yeah, that's so yeah, there's just some articles coming out in New Zealand at the moment as well around uh, the social fabric and that, you know, it's almost in the worst situation it's been in a long time and I think clubs have a really important role in building that back up and those face to face interactions.

Speaker A: Yes, yeah. But you know, it's not just Gen Z because they're on the screen. I think it's also, uh, last week I went out to an event. I'm down here in the Southern Highlands. I've been living here now for six years, you know, in a battle axe block. So you know, we're, we're not right on the road. So, you know, we're three back. It's a, it's a lovely area. I'm always in and out all the time. You know, my husband's always walking the dog, blah, blah, blah. But I go to this event last week with my daughter and I'm talking to this lady and we find out she's two doors up. Ah, never seen her for six years. And she doesn't even know the neighbor who lives at the front of my street, who. And she's been here for 20 years because we're all so busy now.

Speaker B: Yeah, working.

Speaker A: You know, it's that end of the baby boomers, the, the Gen X that are work, work, work. And so even that group and all generations, they need that opportunity to, to get together and just have a. Yeah. And just feel like they belong to something. Was even. There was some American research I found yesterday, and I was talking about little gen alphas, you know, which are, uh, the top end now, you know, finishing the end of 2024. They shop online. We all think, oh yes, it's literally got a chip integrated in their brain. But in America, they're going back to the shopping malls because that's where they can go and catch up with friends

Speaker B: going there with other people.

Speaker A: So the clubs are so important. But of course then we have them coming in as employees and we'll talk about that a little bit later. But then how do they start these conversations when they're not used to having a conversation? And then of course there's the ones that you can't ever stop having a conversation either.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's getting the balance right with those different personality types.

Speaker A: So it is, it's a lot of fun and of course just engaging with our members who also have different, different personality types. So look, there's a narrative out there that clubs are just places where people go for, for entertainment. What does that miss? And what do you want people to understand about the real role clubs play in New Zealand communities?

Speaker B: Yeah, so, and, and yes, they, uh, you know, clubs are hospitality venues. They, they have food, they have drink, they have entertainment. Um, thing that I would like people to know and understand is that that's just the surface level stuff. And, and it's what we've already touched on that they are, uh, community assets. They are, uh, places of belonging where, where people can go and find connection and find purpose, uh, in their, in their lives. And in New Zealand especially, I'm, I'm not sure if it's the same over in Australia. The club is often that last space that's left for people to get together and particularly in our rural communities. Yes, yeah. So it's really driving home that side of clubs and the work they do to support the wider community. While they are a member based association, the work that they do filters out far further uh, than the falls of

Speaker A: the club which is important because it's bringing people in that don't normally go to a club, does it? So we talk a little bit more about how they then stretch out via, you know, broader to the community. What we're seeing now, and we're talking about it for, for many, many years is yes, we, we can bring associations into our club but how do we actually go out there and really build this team spirit with our teams going out outside, you know, and helping people, whether it's mowing lawns, giving blood to reading books, you know, helping, you know, going to nursing homes, whatever. What are you doing there in particular in New Zealand that's really building this community connection.

Speaker B: So at an, at a national level we, we have launched within the last year or two what we're calling our Club Connect program and that's really focused around mental health and wellbeing. So we've partnered with, with a few people, uh, and, and particularly working in the rural mental health space, uh, so going around the country and helping clubs to deliver, uh, workshops and opportunities for people to come together and learn a little bit more about the importance of mental health and wellbeing and really trying to break down some of the stigma that's associated with it. Because as you can understand when you've got older generations, there is a lot of stigma around uh, that mental health and wellness piece. At an individual level as well. We see clubs, uh, you know they'll, they'll have more local associations and groups that they support. Uh, we've, we've had a couple of clubs recently where they've done like really exciting fundraiser days where the staff are all involved. Uh, I think they might have got the idea from, from an Australian club when they were visiting where all the staff members are on in teams and they're, they're riding the bikes in the club. Yes. Yeah. So, so the, the team that covers the most distance and their fundraising. So uh, they are looking at those different ways to get members and staff members on board m. With, with their efforts.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, that's uh, yeah, Club Tari with the CEO Paul Allen introduced that. Um, and it just was just phenomenal because I've done a lot of work with them over the years and And I love the club and Paul and his team, they're, and they're a really young team and bonded but it was a lot of fun because they'd had the bike set up in the club and they, you know, and it started this healthy competition, you know, and you'd see the, the manager or the bar person or you know, somebody from gaming who's already done an eight hour shift and then they'd be on their bike because they didn't want, they didn't want their record to go.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Is the raising of money which really, you know, for people that, that truly needed it in, you know, because Taree is that regional area that it kept it within their community as well as well as helping nationally. But it was the communities spirit and helping those that are local and it

Speaker B: pulls the members in that might have just been sitting there for a meal and they're sort of sitting there looking at what's going on and yeah, it just grows. So uh, we're seeing more of those sorts of activities and it might be, uh, we've got some other clubs up here where they'll have a community partner for the year and so all their fundraising activity over the course of a year goes towards this particular partner. And, and yeah, that the, the results and the engagement that they get is, is really meaningful and impactful.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Do you also do some work with schools over there, Lucy?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So a lot of the clubs have, have partnerships with the various schools. Ah, quite often it will be linked to sports. So uh, getting the, getting the, the school students in and pairing them up with people within the club who can help them with the various sports activities or, or they're supporting sports teams within the schools.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. And once again, you know it's that grassroots. It's showing that you know, clubs are. Yes. There for that entertainment piece. And you know the adults come in but the children still come in for meals as well. But it's that connection back showing you know, the children that clubs are there for them, for the community. And you know, the money may go in but then the money comes back around to the community, uh, as well. You made that point about in regional areas, you know, particularly for mental health, having those programs. You know, I know your clubs would be the same of ours. Particularly in regional areas when there is a disaster, whether it be flood or fire, um, that, that is, that that's the hub everybody goes to. Whether you know, it's where the, the emergency services all rally around, but it's where people can sleep Many times it's on the highest part of the, you know, the town that so to speak where they can go. But at that mental health space, it's particularly for regional areas where they don't get the medical uh, people like they do in the city. It's having that opportunity to have that discussion. And you're right, a lot of the older generation there is still that stigma. We, we talk about it, we've talked about it openly now for so long. But, but even I think even with younger people there is still that stigma or that shame or that embarrassment when it shouldn't be. So at least going to them, it's giving them an opportunity to actually have that conversation.

Speaker B: A safe place and space to connect and open up if there are things that are challenging them. And New Zealand we've certainly seen our fair share of um, weather related disasters and recent times and yeah, the clubs are really rallying for their communities.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, so we do the community work but of course then there's all those governance and there's regulations. So you work closely with clubs on government, on governance and operations. Where do you most commonly see clubs come unstuck and what's the fix that makes the biggest difference and the fastest?

Speaker B: Yes, uh, this is not a blanket case for every club but if I'm looking at the most common, it is really that blurring of the lines between governance and management. Within clubs in New Zealand, particularly in those smaller uh, more rural clubs, the governance do often have to step in and fill some operational gaps, gaps that are uh, there and that can, yeah, it can really blur those lines and, and, and, and then the club loses its strategic focus when that happens. So you know when, when you do have those blurred lines the managers often feel uh, they lose their m. Empowerment. Uh, the decisions slow down. It's, it's all that, that snowballing effect. So that, that's really where the progress stalls. Uh, and what we've had happen recently in New Zealand is we had a. Clubs over here are registered as what we call incorporated societies. Uh, and we just had a new ACT come into play. So it's the incorporated Societies Act 2022. It replaced a 1908 Act.

Speaker A: Oh goodness.

Speaker B: So as you can imagine that 1908 act was quite light on guidance and anything useful for a modern, modern club. And so we've, yeah we've got this, this big new piece of legislation and it does really increase the, the responsibilities on our uh, on our executive. Uh so we've really focused at Clubs New Zealand our attention on on supporting clubs through the transition to the new act, getting training in place for our, for our executives and, and really helping them to understand where those lines sit. And there used to be this line that, that was used in New Z, that it's governance versus management and, but that's not what it is. And so we're really trying to change the narrative that you're working in partnership for the betterment of your clubs.

Speaker A: And you're right, it's for the betterment the clubs and for your members, but for the community. But uh, it's the boards needing to understand the responsibilities and the accountability that they have because it's a big thing to take on a position on a board. And how are you seeing that in New Zealand? Do you, do you see the positions? Because you know we've had, we've had a similar group of people if we do, you know, without stereotyping them, that have been our, you know, board members for many, many years but from, from many of them now they really, uh, you know, they are retiring and leaving for all sorts of reasons. Do you see? Because what we're starting to see here is a change in the people that are going on board. They are very, uh, very professional but they're not wanting to be there every month. So it's that different way of how we're organizing meetings. They're making the board smaller than they were before. You know, some boards were 15 and now they're down to maybe seven because, and that. But also it's, it's getting the quality that we're looking for. Like what I was saying, they were getting professional but if they need somebody who needs that financial background, then that's who they're going out seeking instead of in the past where it's been good hearted volunteers stepping up. So what's that, what's that view look like in New Zealand with boards?

Speaker B: Yeah, in New Zealand we're still very much in that good hearted volunteers. Uh, so the way that our executives are formed is that they are voted in by the membership. Uh, and it's generally people putting their hands up when it comes time to do the election. So uh, yeah, as I say, it's still a lot of those good hearted volunteers. Uh, there is definitely fatigue out there with those good hearted volunteers. They are tired and they are probably seeking to step back and be able to actually enjoy their clubs as members rather than sitting in that high upset, that seat of uh, responsibility. But uh, there are clubs that are looking, really actively looking at how they diversify their boards uh, there have been a conscious effort to reduce board size because we do, I mean we still have a few that are probably sitting at a bit too heavy but uh, they're reducing their sizes down, uh, looking for how they fill those skill gaps, ah, that exist but, but not shrinking the boards. There had been a little bit of a move to shrink the boards right down and I think that's the danger there is. You lose the ability to diversify and attract the skills that you need. So it's about getting that balance right

Speaker A: and you know it's because it is a big thing, you know, for those good hearted volunteers and we always need them in the club industry because they are the backbone. But you know, with that governance point on it, it's a lot of work for them to be thinking of that, that as well and taking on that responsibility. But as I said, without them clubs wouldn't exist because we need a volunteer.

Speaker B: Exactly. And, and it's, it's getting that. I think a lot of the fatigue comes from as I say, they want to come in and be able to enjoy their ah, club uh, but they walk in the door and it's like they've got a neon sign plastered across their, their foreheads and, and so everyone comes to them with their problems around what's happening in the club. And so it's creating boundaries as well so that they can take their governance hat off and be able to enjoy their club.

Speaker A: Yeah. And not hear about the color of the discoloured lettuce in this egg sandwich or that the hand dryer in the lady's third cubicle or whatever. As you said, be able to enjoy the club. So look, we've talked about um, our boards and our governance but let's look at our frontline and our management, um, the team, teams that are there that welcome us when we come through the door, that you know, provide us food, beverages, make sure that, that we're safe. So how does recruitment and retention, you know it's been notorious pain points across hospitality, uh, globally I think for decades. But how are New Zealand clubs going about attracting staff and then, and one of the clubs then are getting, um, getting it right to actually hold on to them because that seems to think we can attract them but they don't always stay. And, and that's what, you know, there's no fault. You know, some people are just right for this industry. Some people want to try me, oh gee, my, I didn't realize I was going to be standing for eight hours. Um, and, and then having to Deal with people. Yes, we do. It's about hospitality. So yeah, so how do you go about that in New Zealand? Attracting and then at least, at least keeping them?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know. I look at my own journey and I go, okay, I'm probably one of those slightly unique people where I fell into clubs and hospitality is that it's going to be the thing that tides me over while I'm at university and studying. And then here I am many years later still very much in it. And I think, yeah, a lot of our clubs are uh, probably still quite traditional in their approach to recruitment and retention. Uh, you've obviously got the challenges that come with being in cost of living crisis. Running a club is incredibly challenging. So getting the balance right in that respect is really, really hard. But where we're seeing clubs succeeding is where they are really uh, putting their focus into their culture and their people and it's a strategic decision by the executive which then flows down into management and staffing. So the clubs that are really investing in their people through training, uh, and opportunities and then also building those career pathways, it's incredibly important to retaining staff.

Speaker A: It is, you know, because we lost so many, particularly that middle management group, uh, during those few years ago, won't mention it. Uh, and then so they left and so now it's that, you know, we're looking at uh, uh, clubs looking at succession planning. Are they looking at building those and as you said, showing people that there is the opportunity for an amazing career path in hospitality. You know, you may start as you said Lucy, picking up glassy classes. Funny I said to somebody the other day in one of my Frontline training, I said, oh, are you a glassy? And they went, a what? I said, you know, the person who picks up the glasses has about 15 screening glasses. No. Okay, so we, we don't call you Glasses anymore. That's, you know, that's very old, old fashioned Michelle. But it's just, it's just showing that here, uh, you were picking up glasses and now you're a CEO and you just love this industry and it's developed so much that it's, but it's got to move quicker. I mean nobody's going to wait around Gen Z in particular for, you know, until somebody, you know, decides to retire in 33 years. Years or oh well, just because you've been here for 11 years, you're going to be the next duty manager. You know, it's got to be a lot quicker and it's got to be done on merit, not just Tenure, doesn't it?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that's. And yeah, we. We do have, um. And luckily in clubs in New Zealand, we do have staff and management who. Who have. Have put in considerable service to their club. So we are lucky to have those people. Absolutely. But it's also. You're building those pathways to bring those new people through as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And having those, you know, those ones that have been in industry for a long time. Because I know we're looking at this over the next. Definitely over the next five years, we're going to be seeing a number of retirements from amazing CEOs that they have given. You know, they've shown that pathway to those that will be succeeding, not just to the coo, but, you know, right down to the, to the duty manager and then the supervisors and then the frontline teams and showing them their. Is that pathway. Because when they leave, they're going to be taking a lot of. A lot of knowledge and a lot of wisdom that we don't want to lose. So if they've. If they've shared that with the team and to me, it's continuing on their legacy, which is wonderful.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So it's just, uh. It's just getting them to do it. Thanks to the other things.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, in New Zealand clubs, we, we tend to have the manager or the general manager and they probably wear the hat of COO and Chief Marketing Officer and Chief Finance officer. And so they're wearing all of those hats and doing all of those roles. And it can be, you know, when you're that busy and you've got that much on your plate, passing that knowledge on becomes incredibly difficult.

Speaker A: It does, it does. And then that, Then, you know, they don't have that time. But it's just. Yes. It's all the things that we have impacting on our lives. Ah. As well as thinking about that, that next group and that succession planning.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because, you know, today we've got four generations under one roof and even some venues have got five generations because the Alphas, even though they're not over 18, are working in the bistros, working out the back. And it's. It's quite interesting. Some of the. Our smaller clubs have even recruited them as young as 14 and they've got a really great, um, program through their schools, but also with their parents and guardians that, you know, particularly in small little village areas, they use the courtesy bus to pick them up, take them home. You know, they go home with a pizza, they're going to make sure their school, um, you know, exams, the reports are still good. But what it's doing is nurturing that group that they become part of. They see what the culture is, they know what the values are. And those values, to me, when you're talking about the culture of the organization is absolutely key, isn't it? You know, and then having them as part of the vision. So with all these generations, how does that dynamic play out in, in actual practice? Because it's very great for us to say, oh, yes, they just get on so beautifully. Um, what does it mean for how clubs develop their people and plan for who leads the organizations into the future?

Speaker B: Yeah, it. That's, that's a really interesting one and probably a, an area that we're grappling with in New Zealand at the moment. And it's that friction between. But this is the way we've always done it. But this is the way we could do it. So, yeah, we've got those people that have probably been working in the industry for a long time. They're quite set in their ways of how a club should operate. And then you've got these young generations coming in that are tech savvy, that are, uh, glued to their phones all the time, have a different view of the world, and it's that mixing of minds. So, yeah, there's been a lot of work that's had to go into understanding people, really, and where they're coming from. And it's not just about age, it's about demographics and backgrounds and just being able to work across those differences.

Speaker A: Yes, it's that diversity of thought.

Speaker B: You know, we need that.

Speaker A: You know, and if we don't have it in the workplace, we certainly have it in our patrons who are coming through the door. You know, different walks of life, different ideas, different values. So, uh, yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And it's, it's probably. That's, you know, one of the areas that I get so excited about in clubs is that we are, that we are so diverse. And for me personally, I, I love going into a club and just having a yarn with the, with an older member that can tell me all the history of the club and their involvement over the years and, and, uh, you know, through to. We were at an event recently and we had a young, you know, he must have been in his 20s, and he was dancing with the darling grandma up on the dance floor. And for me, that's the stuff that makes me really happy when I go into a club and just seeing those interactions and it's, and it's also, it's what you were saying about the value learning, the opportunities to learn the values. And when we look out in the world and we do have that social fabric that is, that is under pressure, the cohesion is not there at the moment. And I think there is such an opportunity for young people going into clubs and learning from their elders about how the world works, about respect and being able to appreciate different viewpoints.

Speaker A: Yes. And to be tolerant. You know, we talk about our, um, patrons, um, they're not as tolerant as they once were. Well, that's the same with the staff. And it's not saying in a bad way. I always see clubs as this extension to our patrons. Living room. You know, they, they come into the club. But it is those that are providing the amazing service that to many of our patrons, that's their family, whether that's through choice or distance or whatever it may be. So having somebody who is, you know, that Alpha or Gen Z, being able to have those conversations, or as you say, having a dance with somebody there, you know, who, who's perhaps even being a pre veteran, it gives them that opportunity to break down those barriers, learn from each other. And yes, just those little things that perhaps we took once for just common sense and, and what we just had because, you know, um, it's. It's a different world. You know, everybody's just so used to pressing a button and having it delivered or going to, uh, you know, one of these machines and you know, m just, just pressing in a question or asking, you know, your phone and it gives you the answer without actually, uh, looking it up. I had my grandchildren that are 10 and 13 over, uh, for the Easter holidays. And with them, they, I got them this book and it's a thousand amazing questions to ask. I said, so what question would you like to ask? Like, why is the sun hot? And they went, I just went straight to the phones and asked. I went, no, you've got to turn the paper. And I mean, I know, I mean, you know, that's just. The book, I think, is fantastic. I love reading this book because I think, oh, wow, all these questions I've always wanted. But it's. It's like that. We may not have a book, but the book is them telling the stories, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: M. And that's what makes the difference. So before we wrap up, one last question or two last questions in regards to the industry's landscape, what do you believe are, uh, the biggest pressures clubs will face over the next five years? What will be genuinely thriving club look like and what has to happen between now and then to get there.

Speaker B: So the, the biggest pressure by far uh for our ah, New Zealand clubs is regulatory burden. So we are like Australia, we're incredibly regulated in a number of ways and yeah largely under the sale and supply of alcohol and then with gaming. So uh, in New Zealand our clubs can only sell and supply alcohol to existing members, uh, their guests and their members from another club. So I can't just, if I was not a member I can't just walk into the club and have a drink and a meal. I've got to jump through all these hoops uh, to be able to get in the door. So that creates major challenges for our clubs being able to diversify and look at how they do things differently. So uh, that's one of the biggest challenges. The other one where we differ quite a lot from Australia is our class for gaming. So uh, a club in New Zealand can have a maximum of 18 gaming machines. Uh we've got all sorts of sinking lid policies in place, we've got a whole lot of regulations there and compliance requirements. But the other thing that's on the horizon is uh, we have just got online casino gaming laws coming into effect very, very soon. So that is going to really challenge our land based gaming operations. And yeah, if we're being realistic it's going to put a lot of pressure on our club. So we've got to watch that really really carefully and make sure that we're there to support our clubs as these changes happen. So we've been advocating quite strongly with the government uh, of the day to make some changes to the alcohol laws for clubs to try and at least give them some options and how they operate. So it's navigating those challenges but then it's also just at a club level it's the clubs that, that are engaging with the community that are getting outside of the. We're a club that has a bar and a restaurant, uh, uh, that are looking at things differently. They're the ones that are thriving and challenging the traditional view of what a club is. They're the ones that are seeing really positive changes and the ones that are just content to sit and do what they've always done are the ones that are unfortunately um, struggling in today's environment.

Speaker A: Um, and we see the same thing here. Without getting too much into politics, we look at you know, two. I'd like to look at two things that you've just made there. One, about the alcohol does those same rules Apply to pubs or is it just clubs?

Speaker B: Just clubs. So pubs have what we call an on license in New Zealand so they can serve the general public.

Speaker A: Right. So because we had the same here, there's always this difference between clubs and pubs. And, you know, getting back to our very first reason for this conversation is about communities. And when a person comes to a club, they have the people, you know, the wealth, their welfare is in the mind of every staff member. Uh, and that's what I love about clubs. You know, we. We ensure even whether it's restrictions like you have with only 18 machines or ours that are very different. Here in Australia, we have our teams ensuring the best welfare for. For our patrons. Online gambling, I'm sorry, takes that away, and there is no welfare. So to me, I'm, um, just, uh. Yeah, and I know, you know, there's. It's a lot. It's been going on illegally, so maybe making it more legal, it'll. It'll make a difference. But it. All those concerns. I know we're having, um, different regulations have just gone through recently about online betting during our football matches.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Because, you know, children are watching it. But it's not even children to me. It's just all of us, you know, you go there and it's just. It's like every second ad. And you know, and good for them. I know everybody, you know, everybody needs to make a dollar in this world. We're all in business. But that is very different to what our clubs offer, which is that security, your welfare, entertainment. Sure, there's gaming, but there's food that you can sit in a club all day and have a glass of water and nobody will ask you to move. That's the difference.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a safe space where the staff get to know the members on. On quite closely, even. Even in really big clubs. And there's that. It's almost like you've. You've always got someone that's looking out for you.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. And to me, that's. That's what the key is. You know, I don't know whether the. Whether they're playing bingo or whatever. You know, if somebody's missing, it's like, oh, you know, somebody's not here. Or that. That guy. I know. You know, once again, when I do my training, oh, let's hear the young ones say, oh, who's that chap that comes in? You know, like a fire on a Thursday at 5. Haven't seen him for a while. And they said, oh, yeah, no, he's all right. He's on holidays or, or he had to go in for an operation and, and they know it. No, and these are these young kids and you sort of think they don't even know his name, but they know that he's the guy that always sits in that, that seat. So it's that, it's that connection, it's that feeling of belonging, you know, it's, it's there. The clubs are there for, for the community and that's what we need to keep instilling into people to work in the industry, but also to support the clubs. So before we finish off, because I know I could chat with you all day, Lucy, this has been absolutely wonderful. Please share how our audience can connect with you. And I know you're, you know, you're also on, um, LinkedIn, but, but yeah, just, just probably a little overview about what the difference between the clubs in the, the north and the South Islands are too, because I was amazed by the different sizes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, look, we've, we've got clubs that are the 15 members that get together once a week and, and that is what makes them a club. Uh, and then our, uh, largest clubs are up over 10,000 members now. So that's, that's really, really exciting. Uh, yeah, we've got, between the north and the south island, we're probably split with about eight. I think it's probably 40, 60 splits. So 60% of our members belong in the north and 40% down in the South Island. And I guess this is a silver lining of the earthquake that was in Christchurch, uh, a number of years ago is that we've got some quite impressive clubs that were able to rebuild following, following that, that time. So we've got some really, really special clubs down in the south island and we've got some absolutely amazing ones dotted around in the north as well. So for anyone coming over to, from, from further afield and visiting New Zealand, I, I definitely recommend getting out to some of our more rural clubs as well. And, and seeing what they're doing.

Speaker A: It's, it's a lot of fun and because I know when I was training over there a number of years ago now, I was amazed by like, uh, some of the. You'd walk into the club and there were all these beer glasses set up with like little tags of names and they said, oh yes, they just go in there. That's their glass. They go, they just go back and forth. You know. Does that still happen since COVID still?

Speaker B: That still happens in some clubs. Yeah. They've got their handle clubs and, and their, their particular glasses are, uh, ready and waiting in the fridges for when they arrive. So it's just so cute. Yes. Yeah. So there are some challenges with you members of the club that are very familiar with that setup. But, uh, as a new person walking in, you can be like, what, what is this? So as long as, as long as the staff are there to, to help people out and, and let them know what the, what the going is in that club, it's um. Yeah, we've. Each club has got its own little quirks and uniquenesses which, which make them really special.

Speaker A: It does, it certainly does. And as I said, Lucy, I'm sorry you haven't shared how people can connect with you because I, I know, you know, some clubs still do it. You know, we have different conferences in both countries and so we go back and forward, but you know, even some, some, some staff coming from some smaller New Zealand clubs, coming to Australia's larger clubs and some of them then going back into a smaller club, that, that's a real eye opener. Um, yeah. So how can they connect with you?

Speaker B: Yeah, so obviously I, I am on LinkedIn, but otherwise the best way to get in touch with us is to visit our website. So that's clubsnz.org nz uh, and yeah, we've got, obviously got a lot of information about what we do on there, but you can also get in touch with us as well.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Well, look, I'll put all those links in the show notes, but thank you so much once again, Lucy. It's been a wonderful conversation and I've certainly enjoyed it today. I appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thank you. Appreciate it.