80% of Insureds Aren't Interested, Here's How to Move Them

Speaker A: We got crap everywhere in here. We got bassinets, we got baby clothes. We are, we are there. And the office has turned into a staging, uh, area for all of our crap as we go through our final nesting stage for baby number six. All right, anyways, uh, you were tell. What were you telling me?

Speaker B: All I was going to say is I, I went on to. I ran when I ran Sunday, and then I ran today and I didn't listen to music.

Speaker A: Let's go.

Speaker B: It wasn't as bad as I thought.

Speaker A: Welcome to the Max Revenue Show. I'm your host, uh, Trey Shields, along with the Zen Master of Commercial Insurance, Micah Salas. Micah, how are you this morning? Great, man.

Speaker B: I've got my, uh, title properly typed out here. Zen Master of Insurance, doing well. Excited to talk with you.

Speaker A: I have on an Adidas Golf Polo that I bought at Costco to demo our new merch. This is not a Max Revenue Polo that hasn't arrived yet, but it is, it is literally this, um, this whatever model Adidas Golf Polo. So I'm going to link to our new merch store. We have all of three items. We have a coffee mug, we have a T shirt, and we also have a golf pole polo. Uh, so go check that out.

Speaker B: We need a hat.

Speaker A: Yeah, their hats. The, the hats on this place, this merch drop shipping place. I haven't, I gotta test some things out because I don't want it to be crap, you know. So anyways, uh, the, the, the coffee Mug is a 20 ounce XL coffee mug. Can confirm it's an absolute banger. I have one. The T shirt is a unisex tri blend. So if you've ever done CrossFit or you have like workout shirts that like that, that fit well, like this one of those. It's not like, like this fabletic style.

Speaker B: It's not overly shiny. It's like a, uh, stretchy cotton.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: Yeah. Those are awesome, dude.

Speaker A: Yes. Tri blend. And then the, the Golf Polo is actually an Adidas Golf Polo. So it's, it's nice. And, and I only marked everything up like 5% because, um, we're not trying to make money off of it. We're literally just. Brand awareness. Yeah, brand awareness. So this, I think the Golf polo is like 50 bucks or 40 bucks, something like that. The T's, 20 bucks, something, whatever. I literally put like 5 bucks on everything except like the mug. Uh, we are using a third party shipper, so they literally print on demand and then ship it. So I never touch anything. So it's considerably More expensive than just buying it up wholesale and then inventorying everything and shipping it out. I don't want to touch anything.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Right. So, I mean, there's like no margins in this. But it's not about making money. If you dig what we're putting out and you want to join the pirate ship and flex the max revenue brand, uh, link in the show notes. Okay. Anyways, let's get on to today's, uh, topic. So I wanted to talk about the eight. This idea of the 80%. Uh, we've talked about writing a book, and when I say we, I mean you. I've, uh, just more like help with the idea. You're actually the guy in the trenches doing it that's built the big book. I have not. But we've talked about, you know, this 80%. Like, what is it about Micah's process? Like, what is your ip? What is your unique value proposition in your process? Right. Which we have inside the producer playbook. And if you've never gone through this process of trying to figure out what actually makes your process unique, I highly recommend it because A, it helps you think better about your process, and B, it might actually expose that you don't have anything interesting or unique about what it is you do. Um, it just helps you articulate it better. And so what I've kind of looking at your process, what I think it does and what I think nobody else really does is it unlocks this 80% of buyers. So our thesis is you have 10% of buyers who are the low hanging fruit who are in pain. Okay? All you got to do is call them. M. If you call them, they're going to opt into your process, whether that's quoting or broker selection, whatever. And then you have. Hold on. We have a. I don't. Doesn't matter to me, my love. But I'm on a. I'm on a, uh, podcast. So I need you to shut the door and skedaddle on out here. I literally just told them that I need to be unbothered for the next hour. Okay, so start over. Do you have the 10% of low hanging fruit? They're in pain. You call them. They have an issue, they're willing to do it. Then you have the 10% who are married. They are not willing to move. It's their brother in law. It's whatever. They have no interest in moving. And then, uh, you have the middle 80%. So how do we move them? And I think in the past it has been persuasion or like maybe manipulative tactics. And how do you do whatever? And I think what your process does that nobody else's does, that unlocks this 80% in a unique way is it's around curiosity, right? How do you get this buyer this insured to be curious? Like, hey, how do I know what I don't know? Or is there something out there I should know? And you always talk about there's two prospects. There's the ones in pain and there's the ones who are curious or don't know. They're curious, but like, how do you get them to take a look under the hood? And so I just want to dive into that, uh, in today's podcast and pick your brain on that and see if we can't parse some stuff out to help the listeners. Insurance X Date generate leads, win new biz. If you've been following us for any amount of time, you know that we've been tooting their horn long before they were ever a sponsor of this show. Guys, if you're a producer, whether you're an EB or in P and C guy or gal, got to have insurance X date. We're talking work comp, X date data, health and retirement data, nonprofit data. They've now got like OSHA and DOT filing data on there. They've got all kinds of stuff. They also have Leads Marketplace where they've got actual leads, first come, first serve. They've got a bunch of new stuff that you got to go check out. If you're a producer and you're in the game and you're actively prospecting and pounding pavement, you got to have insurance XState. Go check them out. Uh, link in the show notes to a free trial. All right, guys, back to the show.

Speaker B: A hundred percent agree. I mean, the low hanging fruit's easy. I think 10, uh, percent. The only thing I would question maybe is the percentages, but it doesn't really matter. I think maybe it's probably 15, 20% low hanging fruit. And then 20%'s pretty loyal. Uh, so you got 60% to work with, I think. But whatever, it doesn't. There's just a big slice of the pie you're missing out on, right? If you're. Because the 60%, uh, that we're talking about that aren't low hanging or aren't like extremely married, what they're gonna tell you a lot of times is, hey, I'm happy. Right? That's probably like the number one thing you're going to hear is, hey, we're all good. We got a person for that? No, we've been with them four or five years. So you're the, the first thing you got to do is decipher. Okay? Is that person truly happy? Or are they just telling me like, they're happy to, uh, go. To make me go away.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And so that, that starts on the very first engagement with a prospect. Whether it's a drop in a cold call, you know, a LinkedIn video message, what, whatever, um, I think it's our natural instinct to say, hey, I'm pretty good, I'm happy. Because we're all busy and everyone has an agent already. So that's what makes insurance kind of tough, is like developing the awareness to figure out if that's BS or real, but doing it in a way. And then. So that's where it all starts in that very first cold call, right? Of. Of. Of doing this. This is also why, um, when I first started making cold calls, I was like trying to do like the whole, hey, I can do this, save you this, or I helped this contractor save this amount and blah, blah, blah, do you want to meet with me? And we have all these bells and whistles or whatever. Try like all the value add or even the pain LED statements. And every time people just kind of immediately like, nope, I'm good, right? Or no, we're good. And I realized, like, what's the point of saying all this, right? Uh, because I'm probably sounding like everyone else, but everyone's saying the same thing. And it seems like the people that want to talk have some pain anyways or some type of curiosity, so why not just get right to the point? Um, and so my whole cold call opener, this is why I kind of just, I guess scrapped all that because it was just causing reluctance and just went to the whole like, hey, would, uh, for a while I was just saying, hey, would you ever be open to having a conversation? I, uh, know you got a broker, but I didn't know if you guys ever talk. That's why I was reaching out. It's such a pattern interrupt. And then you. The thing is, you start to pull in the people that I think are in that 60%. Right? Of course you're gonna get the people say yes that are unhappy. So you don't have to worry what you say. You're always gonna get that low hanging fruit. The 20% will always agree to a meeting, so that's fine. And I'm not trying to filter them out on a first call anyways, right? Unless they're just 100% quote, that's all they want to talk about, whatever. So put that aside. Um, and then the people who are married are gonna always say no, no matter what. Pretty much. Right. And if you wanna spend your time, try to weed, like create a crack in there and a wedge and you really want that top 20% who are married, fine, go for it. But I just feel like the effort isn't, I, I don't think you're gonna get a good ROI on that effort. And so when you open this way, I think you, you, you, what you do is you extend the conversation with that 60% because you, you, it acts as a pattern interrupt because it's so different, you know, like, because you're not opening with a statement. It's just like, hey, would you ever be open to a conversation? And it seems so stupid, right? It's almost laughable. Um, and, and I've developed that a little bit into saying, hey, what do you guys do for due diligence? Right? It's just, but it's the same concept. It's just, uh, it's starting with just an open ended kind of question that gets them thinking. And you, you still, they might say, well, we got an agent for that. We're good, you know, well, hey, are you guys married or do you guys ever talk with people? So you just keep extending it a little bit, like that's how you kind of filter back. And if they keep saying, yep, we're married, a lover guy, then go let it go. That's in that 20%. Right? But then maybe they say, well, we're not married, you know, but you know, this year's kind of bad. Well, now you've kind of opened the crack and you know that, okay, in that 60%, this is that person that I can kind of bring on in, right? Because all I have to do is, uh, get them to understand that there's things they just don't know about their insurance program and they can't ever know unless they talk to someone else. Right? And that's the element of curiosity. Go ahead.

Speaker A: The, the thing, at least when I was making calls, uh, and this is what I thought you were going to

Speaker B: say, I probably was getting there.

Speaker A: Piece about, sorry, the piece about, what do you, what do you mean by due diligence? Right? And so when you say, you guys ever open to, you guys ever open to a conversation or um, what do you guys do as far as due diligence? It's kind of like that pattern interrupt and they're like, what do you mean by due diligence and so how, uh, do you. How do you continue extend that conversation when they say that? Because I. Because kind of. Because, you know, you're kind of asking this pattern interrupt and then they want to clarify they need to close that loop. So this is kind of that first tripwire in the curiosity sequence.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, good question. So what I mean by due diligence is that, you know, I've been talking with a ton of contractors and m. One of their biggest gripes is that insurance kind of just seems like a scam because it's. They can't. There's no transparency. Right. You have to kind of blindly trust your agent. And if you try going to get quotes, it ends up being a total cluster. And, and so what I mean is a way to basically make sure that you're not overpaying, that you're not exposed, and that you're basically getting the best that the market has to offer. Right. Um, and so that's what I mean by due diligence. And then you just stop, right? Let them talk, let them respond. Well, yeah, we got our agent does shop or we bring in other agents to get quotes every year. Okay, well, so totally get that. Actually, that process doesn't usually work out too well for most people. Or it seems to kind of be a waste of time. Is that what you've noticed? Yeah, yeah, we never really move. Okay. Blah, blah, blah. Right. Well, yeah, and that's, that's why I was calling you today. I just wanted to see if I could get. When I'm not calling you out of the blue here, if I could just get 15 minutes on your calendar. You know, it could be over teams or in person, uh, just to basically kind of share and talk with you about a different approach that other people are taking and how they're using due diligence to basically make sure that they're not overpaying for insurance and, and getting the best deal in the market.

Speaker A: Again, you kind of open up this loop of like this other process that people are doing and, um, they want to know, well, what. What is this other process? Or, you know, you. Without coming in and saying, hey, I saved X amount, you know, so. And so this amount of money, it is, you know, do you ever wonder, am I overpaying? Is there something out there I should know about that I don't know about? You know, am, um, I leaving money on the table? Are there other carriers? Is my broker missing something that he shouldn't be missing? And I like your articulating what their fears are. Without A, either they've never actually thought about it before. And then when you say that they're like oh yeah, that is, that is something I'd like to know or B, it's something that they've thought about but until you've said it and laid out the problem better than they can, it just earns you that credibility that they want to say. Hmm M. Maybe that is something that it's worth undertaking.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean I think it's, it's kind of um, sometimes it's even being direct on the phone with them too. It's like, you know, a lot of people just don't really know truly if they're getting the best deal in the market. Right. If they're getting the best that that's out there, then they kind of have to blindly trust their agent. And, and, and the people are like yeah, yeah, no, that's pretty much what, what was going on. And I, and I just basically offer them an alternative approach and the due diligence like we're talking about is just a way to basically get clarity 100%. And there's no downside to it because um, either a, we confirm and I'll even tell em it's like 70% of the time people are in a decent spot. And I just confirm if you're, if you're happy on everything else, service, strategy, all that stuff like resources, blah blah, blah. And it's just you just want to make sure that you're not overpaying or missing anything in the market. Right. I can give you that confidence and that clarity. Right. That you're in the best spot possible, uh, without having to quote, waste all your time. Um, and so that's, that's valuable too. Right.

Speaker A: Um, and then, well it's like on these telemarketing commercials. It's a zero risk, you know, 100, 100 day money back guarantee. You're de risking it for them. Right. So it's kind of like a no brainer. Opt in. Well of course I would do this. And I know you've talked about it a million times. It's like, and you always say, and you know what if I get in there and there's nothing that I can do, I'm going to tell you like I'm not going to try to twist your arm. And so you're just totally de risking this process peaking curiosity and then taking all of the risk out of it. It just kind of becomes a no brainer.

Speaker B: Correct. And the close I think on the tail End when you're closing it. It's not a hard. That's why I don't hard close either because it's like there's no point to, you know, um, they're going to tell you they have pain. It's going to come up throughout the process, right? First meeting, uh, first phone call, first meeting, due diligence conversation or final presentation, it's going to come up if they have some real pain there. And so you'll kind of. People are always like, man, I'm not finding anything in the policies. And this is like not just a policy review, right? That's. Don't sell it that way. That's not how you create curiosity. It's just because that's not going to get it done. But again, I always tell people the prospects that I'm talking to is like, I'm looking for people that are in pain or have some element of curiosity, right? They just wonder, hey, am I getting the best that out there? Right? I just don't know. Is something being missed? Is there some different way to do things? Uh, if you're not one of those two buckets, then there's no reason for us to talk. You know, I'm not going to try to force myself on a prospect or create wedges where they don't really need to be created because we can all go, we can go. Look, you could have a conversation with any prospect and do this due diligence process and you could probably find one or two things and try to hard sell on anything you want. If your mind says, like, I gotta sell this thing, right? Every. If you look at everything like, uh, everything's an opportunity to be closed, you can go do that. You're, you know, you're not gonna. And maybe you'll win some. That. I would walk away, but I wouldn't say it's gonna be that many because, uh, it'll naturally happen, right? And there's a lot of times that you start doing it and you're, you're thinking like, I don't really have a great shot to close this. And all of a sudden, which you didn't think was a big deal, but you just bring it up objectively and like kind of nonchalantly and just say, hey, this is, um, I noticed this, this, this. And it's like three, four things. That's it. And all of a sudden they're like, yeah, we. And they start opening up. In that last meeting, yeah, we've noticed our brokers dropped off, blah, blah, blah. But you never had to force it. They just naturally get there and then all of a sudden you're getting a bor on a deal like that. You didn't. In your mind, you were thinking, yeah, I'm probably just going to go present and, and, you know, I'll lay out what I found. But they're probably not going to go with me or make a change, you know, um, and then they do.

Speaker A: Did you read the newsletter that you wrote?

Speaker B: I didn't. Did that just come out last night? Because I didn't see it in my.

Speaker A: No. I'm going to read to you a section of the newsletter that you wrote that you may not have read yet. You can, you can connect the dots however you want on that one. Okay, So I, uh, just want to get your take on it. It's about, um, you know, as we've talked to a lot of these top producers, you know, uh, or like industry people. Like, I don't want to name names because I don't want to exclude other people. But there's some people you talk to, they're just extremely magnetic. Like, they just have this gravity about them. They're. They, they can transfer certainty to you. So. Well, because they are. They just have, uh, they just know that they know that they can deliver. They got belief and that they know their stuff. Yeah, they have belief, all right. So it's, uh, this training that you wrote, it's called, uh, how top Producers Build and Transfer certainty. And it's basically three parts. But one of the parts is build your proprietary process. Uh, delusion relies on luck and hoping the stars align. Certainty relies on a repeatable machine. If your sales process looks identical to every other broker calling on businesses or worse, you have no real system at all. You will inevitably fall into the vendor trap where you're forced to completely to compete purely on price. Top producers don't wing their process. They follow their own unique structured playbook that belongs entirely to them. This does two things. First, it transforms you into a broker of one, when you establish your own ip, you are no longer a, uh, commodity. Think about it. If you are pitching the same process as the guy down the street, you are entirely replaceable. But when you lead with your proprietary methodology, you instantly eliminate the competition. You are no longer one of three brokers auditioning for the job. You are the only person on the planet who can deliver your specific process. Second, it makes the sales process easy. Instead of gunslinging it at every turn, you just follow the path and paint by numbers. From the way you open the first conversation to how you run your deep dive diagnostics, to how you package risk to underwriters, to how you present the entire dynamic changes. When you have, uh, a proven, unique, systematized process, you stop stressing about whether a prospect likes you or how to manipulate to win the deal, and you start trusting the mechanics of your system. You know that if a business owner allows you to run your process, the cracks in their current program, if they exist, will inevitably show. And done enough times, you will win your share of deals. So it's just going to get you to expand on that. Since you wrote that.

Speaker B: Yeah. And for those listening, be like, is Trey hinting that Micah doesn't write the newsletter? Uh, I have never read the newsletter. This little secret. But. But Trey writes it, so give him all the kudos or the credit.

Speaker A: I just take what I learned from you and then I just ghost right for you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I don't.

Speaker B: I give him the ideas or he takes, like, things I've said and then kind of repackages it. Makes it sound pretty, you know. All right. No, I think, man, that. That's probably. It's funny. Um, that started off with IP and like, hey, you know, is it Raymond, right? Raymond White had kind of done that. Uh, I know, like, um, Guffy Wright does that. Um, Right. White got a lot of common names. Um, I don't. This is one area was I. I was probably weak at is that I had. I just called it due diligence. Right. Where I could have probably more branded it and customized it, um, around, um. Like I could have customized it around construction.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And who I was targeting. And that's probably an area I dropped the ball a little bit on or I could get better on. But I. I know Larry Linney talks about, like, create your ip. I think, you know, that was one of the things he says too. Um, and that's just your brand. Right. But when you peel back the layers, it's the same thing. It's all the same stuff. But it's just. It's the branding and the marketing side and it's like it kind of pulls in that buyer a little bit more. Like whatever you, you know, label it. Um.

Speaker A: No, I think you do do it, though. That's why I wrote it, is because.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'm.

Speaker A: If you notice, everybody in producer land talks about doing due diligence.

Speaker B: No, no.

Speaker A: I mean, that was never a thing. That was never. Nobody ever said that. It was like, you know, whatever. And so my point is, is you do, do that. You didn't Put some sexy title on it. But when you open the door with, you know, what is your due diligence process looks like that's not, uh, a. That's not the way most people are opening up the door. So now it's like you're delivering these deliverables that, you know, it's just not usually part of the conversation.

Speaker B: No, no, I agree. All I was saying is I didn't brand it. Like, I called it due diligence. I could have done a better job branding it. But yes, I had once. I, uh, I give credit. Honestly, I give credit to. We were at Marsh McLellan Agency. Right? Right. Um, that's where I started for seven years. And they called something called the Marsh 3D. Right. Kind of cheesy, but defined design deliver. I don't know what. I think that's what it was. Were you around for that or did. Was that kind of gone by the time that was?

Speaker A: Right. That. That was phasing out when I got there.

Speaker B: So that was around 2014 through 17. Whatever. It worked fine. But it was more capable. It was, uh, the reason I never. I liked it, but it was okay. It was okay, but it was very capability driven. It was very generic. And I always, always like, man, I want something more specific for each. Customized for each buyer. Because it didn't feel. It felt fluffy to me. It didn't feel real. Hey, these are the. Because I'm asking to be hired on aor, right? And I'm going to show you fluff. And now I'm gonna. You're just gonna hire me on. I'm just. Hey, we have this bell, this whistle. Like, to me, that didn't feel. That felt disingenuous. And. And that's where I basically started using the word due diligence after just hearing, you know, like, hey, CFOs are talking about due. Doing due diligence, or we did it for private equity firms. And I just. That's where I started using it, you know. And, uh, now I think everyone uses it. Um, I'm not going to say I'm the first person who ever said that, but, um, I think I kind of made it popular, you know, to some extent, or give me some credit for that, but that's about it. Um, I don't know where the hell I'm going with this. Well, no, I. I think it's just having a process, right? Having a process because. And so once I started saying due diligence. You intrigue people. It's kind of curious. It's different. But Then, then the process I have, you know, it's. Once you have that down, it's so easy and repeatable and you have a lot of confidence. That's the thing we think we're getting at is like, you know, it's going to work right, for people and you just trust that process because it's like, hey, I run this due diligence for 40 people a year, probably not. Probably 30. And I know, like, I will find probably eight to 12 in that 30, where it's like, yep, we're going to get hired. We're going to win this deal.

Speaker A: Well, the reason why I brought it up is because it, you know, directly or indirectly, it plays on the curiosity angle, which is the topic of this podcast. And it's, you know, I think you said, like, Raymond White, he's a perfect example. I don't want to give away his stuff. No, what he's basically done is built this whole proprietary process that helps trucking companies, specifically energy sector petroleum haulers, hazmat type people. Um, he's built out this whole playbook that he runs them through. Right. And so part of his process as he opens the door is he kind of talks about this and he lays this out and he has this whole quiver of arrows. Ah, I don't, I can't give away what it is, but like, he's built this tailored process specifically for them that no one else has. And even if they have pieces of it or of certain versions of it, it's the only place that they can get his. And he has a term for it. And he, you know, and this. And he built this with the help of Larry. And this is one of Larry's big things, is, you know, building your own ip, um, so that when you do open that door and you get in there, this is, you're the only person on the planet where they can get this.

Speaker B: Well, and even guff or, well, optics are reality, right. So I'm sure other people can get what Raymond's offering. Right. But it's, it's, again, it's branded. It's, it's, it's. All this is the importance of the branding and kind of making it feel like it's your customized approach. I mean, um, Guffey Wright openly talked about his, his, he talks about on LinkedIn all the time, you know, his process for helping real estate firms, Right. Get to where they want to get to. And he talks, he. I mean, he's pretty open shares, but anyone can do what he's doing is this thing, as most People won't. But you also, you combine your process with you, right? There's still you. That makes you unique. That's why producers are paid the big bucks. And so you take those and that's where you get, get the good results. Um, like what I was. I looked up this guy that I, I know here in town. I couldn't remember, um, we've never had him on or anything. But his. He had a. His LinkedIn post or uh, about section. He. He focused on oil and gas construction contractors and he called some. His. What's called the Oil Drop Advantage platform, right? So he's like, through our Oil Drop Advantage platform, we provide infrastructure most agencies simply don't have. And he gets on. He talks about, you know, consultants.in house, claims, master service agreement, think HR is network, all that stuff. And he's putting out there publicly on his about page. Any broker can every broke marsh. Everyone has all that. It's just the packaging of it guys. And that's what Larry, I think does so good. He's helped you hone that in and kind of customize that a little bit. And now with AI too, like, you can go on, man. Jim and I've been doing some different things for construction companies around, like how do I kind of get outside just the insurance and the risk standpoint help some guys with like bidding more efficiently or something. And so I haven't really kind of honed it in yet, but. But yeah, I think we're saying all this to say get a process,

Speaker A: uh,

Speaker B: create your own ip, um, and just uh, get out of the like, box that everyone else is playing in. It'll help you stand out.

Speaker A: It'll take care of, um. Uh, there was a guy, I don't want to put him on blast, but he, he took one of our, um, posts, right? It was a Josh Gurley where Josh Gurley talks about, you know, the number one job of a producer is not

Speaker B: to, oh, to get someone fired, quote or whatever.

Speaker A: It's to get the inc been fired. And this guy reposted it. And he was like, this is what's wrong with the industry. This is blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, total performative outrage, ridiculous. Uh, you know, try the out trying to climb his way up the outrage totem pole for status. But, uh, what Gurley was getting at taking in context was not that you go in there and you manipulate the situation just to try to get the other guy fired, is that you do actually have your own process. So that when you go in there and you present or you Lay out your findings. It's kind of a natural thing that they're like, oh, I, um, I want to, I want to follow this versus just, I quote or hey, can I, you know, can I get a shot at your business this year that you actually have a process that they're going to opt into versus just playing the vendor trap. And I think that's what the guy lost in there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And if you go look at the comments of everybody who responded to it, um, it's kind of your typical, you know, anti AOR BOR thing too, where it's like you got to earn the business and you got to whatever, and it's, it's just silly. It's kind of an antiquated take on it. The, a. The, um, the broker selection process. It, it isn't about throwing the other guy under the bus or stealing their work. It's about presenting an approach, a solution to their problem that they've never seen before. I don't know if that made any sense or not.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I mean, you're highlighting what you do well and basically attracting them right by. You can attract someone without throwing rocks and shade at what they currently got. Right. It's just like, hey, they're over here. Their broker. They're looking at this. Their broker is this. This star. Right? They're looking at. All of a sudden, you're the freaking sun. They turned their head like, wait, what's this over here? Right. That's kind of what. That's what Josh is getting at. Because I, Yeah. Taken out of context, I don't necessarily agree that, like your number one job to get the broker fired. Right. But you're. But having a unique process should, should lead them to that conclusion. Right.

Speaker A: Um, I heard somebody say once, there's two ways to build the biggest building in town. One is to tear everybody else's building down, or two is to actually build the biggest building in town. Yep. And so I think that's what he's getting at. That's not about putting shade on the other guy. It's about actually having something that stands above. Right. And then you're just a natural when

Speaker B: you let that speak. You let that speak for itself, guys. Like, um, again, this is why, man, the big account I just won, it was, you know, 120 in revenue. I don't know what it'll end up being probably a little smaller because hopefully we save them money. But came out there, did my due diligence, presented it. Man, we have never seen this before. We've never do you show your, your clients like other rates like this? Like some benchmark. It was like just like some benchmarking data. It wasn't anything fancy. Like we never know how we stack up, you know, like. And that was like one of the biggest things that we. It was just helpful to them to see that. Right. And we talked about some other stuff too, but that's, that's what we're talking about here. It's like showing things, thinking about things that they're not thinking of, bringing it to light and be like, man, this is really impressive. I gotta work with this guy. Right. Hopefully, uh, whatever process you have just gets the buyers to feel that way. And if it doesn't, then you're gonna probably have a tough time selling or attracting the kind of clients that you want to attract. So, um, yeah, I mean, that's uh.

Speaker A: Any other specific examples of how you can, how you've unlocked this 60%? I guess it's not 80% this 60%. With curiosity. Um, like instead of just a generic. Well, I say this and then they say that. Is there any recent wins that you can think of of where they were happy or they thought they were content and you opened the door and extended it until getting through to the end?

Speaker B: Yeah, man. No, I had another decent one that was, um. Left the book, right? That's always a good way to start to be. Wow, this is different. Leave a book. The guy still talks about it today. He's like, man, I should reread your book. I was like, yeah, but anyways, left the book, had the first meeting, did the due diligence and then what. That's the thing is you don't. For me, I never know what I'm going to uncover, right. Because it's going to go a different direction based on what their pains are and what I find where I think some people get like, uh, probably Josh or whatever, go through a very odd, like regimented process every time no matter what, where I kind of kind of work on the fly a little bit. But I have my framework, it's a little more loose and it's customized to that person. There's no right or wrong way. That's just kind of my style. But with him it was all about like education. And so throughout that process, really, uh, just educating them. And then when I came back to present it was like, uh, laying out a three and five year strategy was really something that like struck a chord with him. And then also educating him on risk around driver, um, safety and some things like that because, uh, their auto premiums were high, right? I'm like, hey, this is what you got to do. And, like, I kind of put like four bullet points on, like, how they should drive. Some different factors they should work on to improve their risk profile. Right? And that was it. I mean, and then that was a guy, he was going to pay. We had to quote that one because we couldn't AOR one of his bigger policies. And it was like, we were initially like 30 grand high. And he's like, we're gonna go with you because. And we were waiting on one other option. And he's like, we're gonna go with you either way. Uh, he called me. He's like, so we made our decision. We're gonna go with you. I know you're a little bit higher, but we really value the education, blah, blah, blah. And this, you know, I just. That's what we need. And I was like, okay, awesome. Yeah, I was. My jaw hit the floor because I was like, you're not gonna pay 30 grand more. And then we did find another option where I think we basically got down to about the same of his other broker. But, um. But yeah, that was another perfect example, uh, of that.

Speaker A: I know that another thing you get a lot is people. You will pitch this, well, what is your due diligence process or whatever? Like this curiosity thing. And they say something like, well, hey, I. I don't want you to waste your time, but, you know, yeah, we can talk. And I know you had a deal like this recently. How go into that for me?

Speaker B: No, what? Yeah, I mean, people, they're trying to be honest, which I respect. They don't want to waste my time. They already know. And I can tell by them asking this question, like, they're. They're thinking they're not going to leave, right. Unless I find something crazy, earth shattering. And, uh, and a lot of times I'll just tell people, like, hey, that's totally fine. Like, I don't. I'm not going to come back and twist your arm. I just. As long as you're telling me you're open to the idea of leaving if we find something substantial or something comes up through conversation and you think we can provide more value, then. Then I'm fine doing this. Due diligence, like, I have no problem doing that. So that's usually what I just tell people. Um, I have one right now I'm looking at. He's with his cousin. Okay. I don't know if I'm gonna get it or not. Um, but he sent me all this. I've been calling him for, like, two years. We talk every year, and it's like, I don't ever get any information. And I can't just go and say, hey, I want to show you a different strategy or approach. He's not just going to fire his cousin. Like, it's just not. I just know he's not going to do that. I have to come with something kind of tangible. But this year we finally talked, and, you know, every year I'm kind of refreshing his memory. Hey, uh, this is me calling again. We talk, whatever. And he's like, you know, you're right. He's like, I just really don't know. Like, I. He's like, I feel like we are paying a lot. He's like, I am with my cousin, but it's not like it's. I'm not, like, blindly loyal to him, you know, and so if you could find something or point out some major issues, like, I'm definitely open to talking. Right? And so we'll see. He sent, overall his information. You know, he's paying probably 500 grand for his insurance. Um, so we'll see what happens. Tbd.

Speaker A: Maybe I'm crazy, but this one that I remember was there was two partners, and one had somebody that was already on it, and you were talking to the other person, and you're like, hey, listen, my partner, you know, he's got a guy on it, blah, blah, blah, blah. And. But they still let you in, and then you ended up winning the deal. Am I crazy?

Speaker B: You. I don't think you're crazy. Because stuff like that's happened where, like, the partners are each talking to separate people. I can't, uh. I just can't put my finger on the exact, um.

Speaker A: Because you write so many deals, you just can't keep track of them all.

Speaker B: I wish. No, I wish, um. Yeah, I can't think of that. Can't, uh, think of that one.

Speaker A: When you. When you, um. When you open the door with curiosity, how often is, like, that door opened on how do I know if I'm overpaying or how do I know if I have something? Like, how do I know if I have a service or a coverage issue I don't know about? How. Which one of those do you feel like is more of? Uh, the one that opens the door?

Speaker B: Depends on the buyer. Right? I mean, I've sold a lot this past year where price wasn't even most of the deals, it was never price. It was communication or education. Or coverage stuff, but for a lot of buyers. Yeah, Price. I've used price a lot to say, how do you know you're not overpaying? Yeah, yeah, we should probably talk. Costs have gone up. It's prudent, right? We should have conversations. I'm going to take that angle. Uh, that doesn't mean you sell on price, just means you open with it a little bit or you use it as like a kind ah, of a magnet, um, to get them thinking. But also it's not like, hey, I'm not gonna come out here and quote, uh, your business. I'm just gonna come out. I have a different approach that will. I have so much data because I specialize in what you do. I can point out how you rank against your competitors. Right. Also, I do market research. You can't just go on Google and look up am I getting a good deal on my insurance? Unfortunately, you can't do that or you can't get a quote in 10 minutes from another carrier. You can't even talk to an underwriter. Right. You, the only way through them is through an agent like your current agent or myself. But if you want to ever hold them accountable, you got to do some market research. You know, what, what are underwriters even saying about you? So that's part of the due diligence process. I'll do, uh, you know, I'll benchmark your rates, I'll do some market research and then, um, we'll kind of look at kind of your processes and your risk profile, have some questions for you on that and I'll come back and share with you, you know, and then see what the best path forward is.

Speaker A: And this is obviously transferable from cold calling to drop ins, whatever, or if you get a warm referral in somewhere. Do you remember David Steenstra talking about how he kind of piques interest when he's doing drop ins?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What do you remember?

Speaker B: What does he. I can't remember what he said exactly. Once you say it.

Speaker A: I would. I don't remember. I'm trying to think. It's a broker selection play.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure. Selection. Um, isn't it just around the. I think it is kind of a curiosity angle. It's like. Yeah, I just want to kind of.

Speaker A: I don't remember.

Speaker B: Yeah, we'll have to go back and listen to that.

Speaker A: I thought you'd remember. You work with him.

Speaker B: I know, but we're halfway across the country. Um, yeah, the other, you know, a couple of things with the curiosity thing to me to put A bow on this, uh, here is like, people assume you got to walk away from all these deals, right? You're not walking away from you. I choose to walk away from deals where it's like, I know, like, the people who say, Hey, 95 chance, we're not going to move, right? And they're blatant, tell me they. They love their person. I do the due diligence. I get the policies. I have conversation. No pains coming up. I might just. I'll still call them and give them, like, hey, this is what I found. I'll give them a quick recap. But I'm not going to go drive out to see them if they're an hour away and just waste my time.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: I might just call them, like, hey, man, I told you I'd shoot you straight. Like, you're in a really, really good spot. But, like, you. You still love your agent, right? Like, you're really happy with their process. They're running all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, dude, I'm. I'm just not going to waste my time trying to. Trying to force sell those ones. Um, and that's where some people might disagree. Well, you're just walking away from missed opportunities and whatever. M. I'm like, that's. That. Maybe that's fine if I am a couple times a year. Um, but I think that's. That you're not walking away from as much as you think. Because even if you say, well, why not try to sell them? Okay. I go in there with more of a classic pitch and try to sell and make some mountain out of molehill, and they're going to be like, no. You know, I think. I think you're maybe missing out on maybe one or two extra opportunities a year, maybe at most. But I. But I also think you also, if you're selling it as like, hey, this is objective. I'm not trying to hard sell you anything. But then you try to close them on. On stupid stuff in the back end, you're kind of being disingenuous there. So just lay it out.

Speaker A: Shoot all credibility in the foot, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. They'll remember you, man. Like, they'll remember you. Stay. That's where you stay in touch, right? And you're not asking to be number two and just saying, let me be your backup. I don't ever ask for that. You know, I just say, I'll stay in touch with you, man. When timing changes or something's different, let me know. Otherwise, I'll keep in touch with you once, twice a Year. And I'm, uh, in this for the long haul, right? So it's not. It's not like some beta male play or anything like that, you know, like, you're not just bowing out, um, out of opportunities. So.

Speaker A: But. Well, hopefully we circled the wagons good enough on that.

Speaker B: I don't know.

Speaker A: Better in my head. It sounded better in my head. Uh, but I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't know if you got any value out of this or not, but.

Speaker B: Who, me or the people listening?

Speaker A: Uh, the people listening. Um, the. What I really want to know is you played golf yesterday. How'd you shoot?

Speaker B: Shot a 41 on the front.

Speaker A: Yikes.

Speaker B: 41. Come on, that's not bad. And also, the dude, the wind was howling and it was swirling, so I was like, every hole is different. It was a beautiful day, but it was just super windy. And so, like, one hole, I mean, I, uh, hit a nine iron 160, right. The next hole, I'm hitting a seven iron 140. It's like, it was that kind of day anyway, so 41 finished with a birdie. I was all pumped. Or especially after, like, it was an easy par three on hole eight that I. I always par. I hit it up there, the window, hit it. All I do was put it uphill. It should have been an easy par, dude. I ended up like, double bogeying it because I blasted my first putt. It was uphill, and I just way over putted it. But then anyways, back nine fell apart, uh, opened with like double double, and, um, just had some bad luck and, uh, shot a 48 on the back. So 89. I've been stuck in 89, 89 to 91 ville. Uh, but I feel like the last two times I've played have been 89s and 88s. I think I feel like I'm playing like 81, 82 golf. Like, that's. It's my dude. My chipping is so. Yesterday was so bad, out of nowhere, I'm like, I've never duffed so many and, like, chunked and blasted putts by the hole so many times. It was just on that back nine. It was just weird.

Speaker A: So I'm going to give you somebody to go watch. Great. Well, I like him because it doesn't. I'm going to give you two people. Number one, Jimmy Tropicana. Go check out his YouTube, okay? He simplifies everything. He takes all the thoughts out of it. And also golf sidekick. Go watch those two guys they just, they boil it down. They don't do crazy mechanic stuff. It's just very simple things. And the one guy talks about swinging the V on chipping, and that's helped me out a lot because I get super mechanical, which also this is a very, uh, similar analogy to production. You can get caught up in the weeds and overdoing things and overthinking things. And like you're talking about with your scoring, you know, you can be going out and putting in all the reps and feeling like you should be getting a return of X and it's just not showing up. But law of large numbers done over a long enough time horizon. You'll get yours.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, I'll be. I got to play more, you know, when you're playing. That's my fifth round this year or fourth since January. So I mean. And I don't go to the range nearly ever. Uh, and when I do go down for chip or putt, so that's my own fault. Um, but, dude, the drives are really good. I mean, my driving accuracy is solid. Like I, I have two bad drives around basically that cost me, you know, maybe a stroke. So it's not driving, it's just, it's just the chipping up and down.

Speaker A: But did you know your video on like, Jim Vet what I learned, dude,

Speaker B: I'm like a little like, uh, it's viral.

Speaker A: You have like a thousands of, um.

Speaker B: I get so many comments on there, like these people like, dude, what do you like, when did you change or how's it working out for you? I was like, man, I haven't. I went away from it. Now here's the crazy part. I stopped doing the Jim Venetos last August. That's the last dude. Uh, I was shooting 81, 80, 81 to 83, 84 consistently all the time. And then I. The only reason I switched is because I just wanted a more traditional looking swing. And now I'm stuck in. Ever since I've done that, I've been shooting upper 80s and so it did take a ton of like the variable out of. Out of it, man. It was. I always recommend. I mean, I love the guy and also my elbow was hurting from it, so I don't know if I was doing something wrong.

Speaker A: But I mean, I think the Venetos method is. I mean, if you're unathletic and not coordinated and you don't ever play golf and you just need a paint by numbers method, I think it's great. You know, I think it's good for somebody like you.

Speaker B: Thanks, man. I really appreciate that coming, coming from a pro athlete like yourself.

Speaker A: Well, we've lost every listener that, you know. We've lost 35 of the 37 listeners we had. All right, now time for the. Now time for the cta guys. We never ask you to subscribe or follow or leave a review or any of that stuff on podcast or YouTube or whatever. Please do that. It helps us out a ton. I am asking you to do that. And then, you know, all the other good stuff is in the show notes, all of our links for our sponsors. Go give them some support. Uh, Micah's producer playbook. It's in there as well. If you want to build a book of from scratch with Cold Outbound, that's how Micah's built a seven figure book not once, but twice. Um, so go check it out. We appreciate you listening. Hopefully you got some value out of this, and we'll, uh, catch you on the next one.

Speaker B: Adios.

Speaker A: All right.