Episode 2: Tech Talk - Managing the Human Side of Digital through Change Management

Speaker A: The Manufacturing Edge, uh, where ops leaders break barriers, drive growth and redefine what's possible. In this episode, the team discusses why change management is critical to achieving a strong ROI when transitioning from paper based to digital management systems. And how manufacturers can drive adoption and sustain new behaviors. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Manufacturing Edge. This is where we unpack the real world strategies behind operational excellence in manufacturing. I'm, um, your host, Will Merriman. In our last episode, we spent time talking about digital management systems. What they are, how they're built, and why they sometimes fail to stick. And today we'll pick up right where we left off, but with a, uh, little bit more broad lens. Whether you're rolling out a digital management system, standardizing a paper based process, we're trying to align teams across sites and regions. The challenge isn't the system, but really the underlying change that's occurring. So we've decided to drill into this change and managing it, what it actually means in practice, why initiatives stall, and how effectively executing and planning for change can be a catalyst for consistent global operations. I'm joined today by two familiar voices on the manufacturing edge. Dave hall, senior client manager at tbm, bringing his executive and leadership perspective. Dave, welcome back to the show.

Speaker B: Uh, hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker A: Good to have you back. And Guy, TBM's digital solutions consultant who sits right at the intersection of operations, people and technology. Guy, great to have you back.

Speaker C: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Speaker A: Let's get right into things. I know our listeners are chomping at the bit, uh, to hear more about change management from both of you, but before we get into the tools, systems or scales, I think it's worth level setting a bit on the term itself. Dave, to start things off, change management is one of those terms everyone uses, but it means different things depending on who you ask. From your perspective, what is change management not and what do leaders often get wrong right out of the gate?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think change management is really important from, um, the people and cultural perspective. So what it's not, in my view is just an assumed approach that it's all about speed and the mechanics of the change that'll come if we bring the people along. So what we have to do is get people comfortable with change and let them know why are we doing this, uh, what's in it for them, how can they help? And then as leaders, we need to really explain to them how we're going to support them in this. And by that I mean from an empowerment perspective. People have to be Willing to be empowered. So we have to get them comfortable with what that means and what their boundaries are. So change management holistically is looking at how the people interact within the change that we're driving. Um, without it it's going to flounder and fail and people are going to disengage, they're going to be disappointed. Um, and ultimately look at management as not being effective.

Speaker A: Sounds like it's truly a two way street. Management needs to have the ah, vision and actually manage the change. But there needs to be buy in from all levels of the organization.

Speaker B: And that's a great point. When you look at a change management strategy, there is the mechanics of it and the vision. So it starts with the vision and being able to articulate that, cascade that down and then put the structure in place and then the human element of change management which is preparing them for

Speaker A: the journey to continue. On that same vein, Guy, I think you could provide some input here. But what is the change management people should be planning for and what should companies in general, all teams within an operation, expect to have in order to manage change effectively?

Speaker C: I think to Dave's point, there needs to be a perspective from both the rational side and the emotional side, from the business side and the human element, as Dave said. And that human element is really what's key to the change management. So it is important that we have a structure. I think it's important also that there is direction from leadership, that there is buy in from leadership. So we need to have all of these um, into place. I think it's also important to understand what metrics are we trying to drive, which keeps us centered on that structure and, and also making sure that we have a clear understanding of what our starting point is. Right? What's the current level of maturity in terms of uh, working with change and accepting change. Because some organizations, they go through a lot of change constantly, um, and other organizations, they've done it this way for years. So I think it's also important to understand where we're starting from and understand what the different targets are as we move forward. And again that needs to be an analysis both on the rational side and on the emotional side. And that's what the change management piece of it is, right? It's building trust with the operators, with the users, uh, understanding their perspectives. And as Dave mentioned before is the what's in it for me? Because that's really what we're trying to identify is what's in it for each of the individuals who are participating in the system. And how does that all align into the what's in it for the customer? Right. Because that's really what's driving all of it. So I would say those are some of the pieces that need to be in place. Of course they vary based on the client, but, but I think those are the, the fundamental elements and perspectives that we need to look at when we're looking at change management feels like it

Speaker A: can be treated sometimes as, uh, a process that's not human. You know, you take the human aspect out of it and it's a lot easier to say, okay, this is how we're going to a change process without truly considering things like emotion buy in and the effect it'll have on your culture. Is there a specific place and an area where the human side is maybe underestimated when you're considering change? Have you guys seen that in any of your experience?

Speaker C: Uh, I would say absolutely. That's probably in my experience. One of the, one of the biggest hurdles that we don't recognize and we need to make clear is sometimes as leaders we think that when we ask something, it's just going to get done exactly in the way that we had imagined it to. Right. So if we say, oh, we're using the system from now on, people will use it and it'll work. Right. Which is not the reality, it's the rational view. Right. The business view. But when we really look at the complexities of people's day to day lives, um, what they're dealing with and how they're measured and all of those different details, it adds a much deeper element that's a cultural change that I think is where the change management process really focuses on. I'm sure Dave probably came across some, some of that as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, some of the things that leaders sometimes take for granted is that everyone in the organization has a clear understanding of our vision and direction. And without continually communicating that and bringing that to the level of the employee in their terms, in their vernacular, they'll get lost and they'll make assumptions. Right. Because they want to do a good job and they want to perform. And if we're not clear, the way they go about that could be in a different direction than our expectations. So it's critical that we are very clear in our execution and also in, again, bringing them along, giving them the training, giving them, um, the comfort that they're very important in this process.

Speaker A: There's so many things you can do to say you want to change as an organization or maybe you want to change as a department. But it's not just the communication and training piece. I think there's true attention that needs to be put towards sustainment and that's a gap that we see at TBM and I'm sure both of you have seen throughout your careers. But a great way to manage that, that change and have a system in place is something like a management system. Whether it's a digital management system or a paper based system, it's really the backbone of that change. It can be leaned on. So Guy, why do you think being our digital solutions consultant and uh, doing so much work in this space, why are management systems, when they're well designed, such a great vehicle for change?

Speaker C: I think uh, it really goes back to that fundamental principle, right? That change is the only constant. So in any process we know that abnormalities are going to occur. And that's really the management system, it's abnormality management. So I think that's exactly why, because at first it provides a baseline, right? Because if we don't have a management system, if we don't have a structure for tracking our metrics, for tracking our quantitative and qualitative data, uh, a cadence for communication, for escalation of issues, problem solving at the right levels, if that's not happening, then the inevitability that issues are going to come up, we don't have a system in place to naturally work with them. Right? Where we're living in or working in an environment where we're assuming that it will always be uh, what's expected and how we planned it, which is not the case. So I think that's the first piece where with a management system we can at least set a foundation and understand what our current baseline is. Right? Because that's really the only way that we can make sustainable change. Because change without tracking, uh, again it's just constant changes as things are always changing. So, so I think that's where it really supports us. And then adding a management system gives that layer of visibility, that layer of accountability for any process improvement changes that you're making as well. Right? So we set the baseline, the management system helps us collect where are we not meeting our targets in terms of our quantitative metrics and also helps us collect the qualitative data around it. Well, why was that? What was happening? What was the case? And then we can move through the continuous improvement process and the problem solving process to get to the root causes and have that system as our main place of tracking the improvements and making sure that they're being sustained and that we're continuously hitting the root causes of the issues and the abnormalities as they're

Speaker A: identified, uh, using that as a base foundation and building off of it. Dave, I know with your experience both implementing and working within management systems, you may have seen times where there's a bit of a jump to a solution or a tool. Uh, before any planning goes into place, before any company does want to implement a management system, what are some of the risks they should consider? Whether it's the actual setup and design or tool selection before they get into anything.

Speaker B: I think, um, you know some of the risks of jumping to a tool without implementing or coddling the behaviors that are needed, causes, start stops, lack of um, follow through. I think it's just an element where if we jump straight into a tool, we become, as we say, very tool happy. And we just want to implement tools but we don't look at the effectiveness of those tools. So in let's take a management system, uh, approach, we use the crawl, walk, run strategy. So the crawl is we start off with manual boards, paper. Right. We get the muscle memory, we get the behaviors, we spend the time on the floor with the folks driving those inputs so that we can have quality discussions on how we improve the outputs. So without doing that and you just jump to a electronic solution, let's say you go, you skip the first two, the crawl, walk and you just try to run it. It's going to have a lot of failure points, a lot of disenchantment of people because it's not producing the expectations or the outcomes that we're looking for.

Speaker A: Is there a way that you reframe that conversation, Dave, away from tools and towards outcomes when first meeting with a client or you've been with them for a number of months but need to reiterate and really hammer home that point?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it comes back to part of the problem solving thinking. Right. And causality. So we need to understand causes for, let's say poor performance or poor quality or those things. And without understanding that causality in total, we can't do proper problem solving. Right. And get to an outcome or uh, an improvement that'll be lasting and sustaining. It's kind of like, I use the term a lot, the old whack a mole. Right. So uh, we're not hitting to the root of these performance issues and therefore they just keep coming back. And in a management system the essence is we're trying to drive to that root cause so that we don't continue to see them. We get rid of the chronic issues or impeders of performance. Right. And so without basis and training and behavioral modifications, for lack of a better word, we're just going to struggle and we're going to have a lot of information that we don't understand the causality, uh, and we're going to be chasing our tail.

Speaker A: Following up on that, I just wanted to gauge both of you and your experience. Have you either experienced more pushback, say in smaller organizations or is there uh, any type of more buy in when working with smaller teams? Or on the flip side of that, have you experienced more mobilization and coordination with larger teams? Or is it really a mixed bag regarding size of company, size of teams and size of operations?

Speaker C: I can say from my experience that when you're working with a smaller, like maybe a single site or a close, more close knit group, then you have a lot of momentum coming from the early adopters, I would say, because they're more connected. Once we get a few, a certain few on board, then they really drive the entire team because the team is so connected. Right. So again, to Dave's point is once we really drive, what are we trying to do with all of this? Right. What's the reason? And we see beyond the work of filling out the boards and the motions of the tool and we can really see what are we trying to drive for our customer. Right. And for ourselves to help support our customer. I think that's what brings us all together. And when we're working in a smaller team, it's easier for that sort of to spread via osmosis. And that goes both ways. Right. It's also where we may have more difficulty. If we have some key individuals that are resistant, then they'll drive that resistance a lot more, especially if they're in any position of leadership. So when we look at smaller organizations, that's, that would be my experience. Whereas larger organizations, there's a little bit more variability. It sort of depends on their own per site culture. But a lot of times when there already is a process of change and a good structure of leadership at the top, then we see the mandate of it working effectively as well in larger organizations. So I would say that those are the two perspectives, at least from my experience. I don't know what you've seen, Dave.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think, uh, that's spot on.

Speaker A: Is there a certain point either of you have seen where scale comes into play and this needs to be a topic of conversation, or is it more arbitrary?

Speaker C: I would say for myself that scale is definitely something that comes into play when we're looking at standardization, right? Because a lot of times there's the case where the management system can flex a bit to the comfort of the site or what's most applicable to the sites. So I've definitely seen that once we start looking at scaling in multiple locations, that's where we need to really start paying attention to, to the discipline in terms of that standardization of our methods of the boards in terms of the scaling. So I'd say scaling is definitely uh, a big element and of course it ties very deeply into, into adoption as well where if we don't have those on site champions to keep driving it from, in our position, we can't be at all the sites all the time. The scale really impacts that, that drive if we don't have it at an on site from an individual. So that's where I've seen scaling really take an impact and why a digital management system a huge difference. Right. Because now once it's digital we can see it uh, real time. All the locations we don't need uh, to be there, we can see the boards being used and we can create that alignment in terms of standardization and having that visibility across the board. So that's my perspective at least and experience in terms of scaling and some of the issues that can come up.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think anytime scaling makes it complex, right. It adds complexity. So that's, you know, when you think about the change management aspect, that's why the coaching is so important. You know, as we're scaling that coach, coach, coach, give feedback, you know, allow uh, the organization to improve. But you have to have that mindset that it's just not going to run on autopilot. Just because you've scaled it and you've introduced it at say one location doesn't mean that through osmosis it's going to just continue through the organization. It has to be nurtured, it has to be uh, managed and coached.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'd love to talk more on that, Dave. The nurturing of it, the creating standards and making it more habitual than anything else. How does the change management program or change management within a vehicle like a management system create consistent operations whether it's one site or if you're operating in multiple countries and regions, you know, the

Speaker B: change management aspect in general, I think we have to make like with any, in this case software, right. And any solution we have to have um, what we would call super users or super champions, right. That can move across the organization with us and give that guidance and coaching to the people within the Process. To me, the human factor plays a big role, as in if we want behavior to change, we have to coach and show them what we want. There's a leadership saying that says, um, you know, people will do whatever the leader demonstrates is important. Right. Once we stop doing that, let's say we get to uh, in this case the management system in place and we think it's sustained and you know, going to live on its own. The minute we stop paying attention, it's going to slide back. Because now the organization is saying, well, that was important, but you know, things change fast in our, in our businesses and if we take our eye off the ball of things that are important, they're going to say, okay, well that must not be important anymore. What's the next thing that, that they're, you know, really trying to drive through the organization? Because I need to support that. So we have to stay that change management is stay the course, continue the coaching and just be present, demonstrating the behaviors, Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was about to say yi. There's probably a lot of talk about, you know, can you lead from the top down, uh, with memorandums and other type of instructions, or do you guys think it's more effective? Is that actual on the floor, uh, hands on and leading through their actions? Is that where you guys have seen the most effective change and the most motivated teams, when leaders actually step in and take that role?

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. I mean when you see an organization really step up, you know, when they see the leadership out there, you know, working with them, coaching them, really being, call it humanistic. Right. Reachable. Wow. People really, really get, uh, motivated around that.

Speaker C: No, that's exactly it. And it shows, like I was saying, right. Demonstrating the right behaviors. It also shows that how the system is being used by leadership as well. I think that's another big piece because when you're out on the floor, you come to the board. The board can be a structure for your conversation. Um, and that's what really drives that use. When operators see that leadership is coming by and checking boards and asking about it and engaging with it, not only do they see that this is something leaders care about, like Dave was saying, but they also start seeing how the system can be used to their benefit. Right. They see, wow, if so, and so is looking at this board, then maybe I should put the issues that I keep coming across on here and maybe something will be done about it. Right? And it's part of that balance, right. That give and take and that exchange essentially in any work Environment that we always have to be paying attention to, but it's essential. I would just second exactly what Dave said. That uh, the leadership example and the leadership buy in is the foundation that so much of this builds off of.

Speaker A: I hate to do it. But on the flip side of that, there's great leadership, but there's also things that undermine maybe what leaders are doing or what the vision and goal is for the entire organization. Is there one really poignant thing that you guys have seen from a pattern recognition standpoint? Uh, maybe that has been the biggest detractor from the implementation of change.

Speaker C: I can tell you two of mine, it's not showing up to meetings or being late for meetings.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I think that's a key. I mean that's just right there. If they're, if they're not there for the tier meetings or they're not filling out the board, just those three basic elements or late, um, I think those are just clear examples in my opinion.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I second that. Uh, that's really where, you know, the opportunity for leadership to show and you know, set expectations flies out the door. Because now the, if you think about it from an associates level, they're like, okay, well this is really important. I'm spending time, I'm doing my part, but I don't see the support that I was promised or articulated that I would see. Right. And now the angst starts, the questioning, it starts to impact the mindset of the associates to say, is this really important or should I be doing something different? So I think you're spot on.

Speaker C: And that's really what drives the sustainment right back to the exchange of it. There's nothing from my experience that drives the use of a management system more than the operators seeing that their issues are being escalated and that they're actually being resolved and that leadership is coming to them and communicating it to them and that we have a complete feedback mechanism. Right. Because from the start we do ask for more work from the operators. Right. And filling in the board, we make it as frictionless as possible. But as with anyone, right. We want to understand what's the exchange of our efforts and the moment that we see, okay, wow, I can't believe they got that tool that, that I needed or this has been fixed. This machine kept jamming. I can't believe it. And one moment like that can just immediately turn around the buy in for a management system. And that's all in the hands of, of the leadership doing their part to support and not only asking, but also giving as part of that give and

Speaker B: take of the system to that point, you know, the motivation, the um, drive of the organization. What we've done as leadership in setting the vision and expectations is that, hey, we want to understand the problems that you're seeing day to day and we're going to help you solve them. The minute we don't follow through and do that, or at least have an explanation of why we can't on a specific item, it just loses credibility to me. Credibility is something that is hard to get, easy to lose and very, very, very difficult to re obtain.

Speaker A: Ah, it's almost like the behaviors of leaders are maybe even the single most important thing because those behaviors trickle down throughout the organization and if associates aren't recognizing them, they're not going to be the ones uh, to implement those behaviors unless it's coming from some outside source. But going forward, say, you know, we've done everything uh, we can to plan for change to vision change, uh, and we're in the active process of making those changes now. We need to sustain the change. And I think that's a big problem that organizations run into is they really drill down into the change. They plan effectively and make those changes, but sustaining the changes where they run into a roadblock and often regress into what they were doing previously or instead some cases an even uh, further worse form of the activities. How do we make these changes stick? And Dave, I'll start with you from a leadership perspective. What are some of the things that leaders can do both in working with their teams, but also from their spot in the organization to really sustain change?

Speaker B: It's a great question because what happens? You've heard the statement life comes at you fast. Well, problems come at you fast too in a, uh, in a manufacturing or any business setting. And when I talk about leaders, I just want to be clear. It's, it's not just top leadership, it's middle management, it's supervisory, uh, uh, leaders as well. And really the thing that we have to do is protect and not overload the associates on, you know, multiple, multiple things. We need to have a few very clear expectations that we're driving. And that's why we use the SQDC methodology. Right. It keeps it very framed and we try to protect any other inputs that's going to derail or take away from the focus on those things. Those issues need to be handled at a different level than let's say at the shop floor. Right. Those are more, if I think about them, um, engineering or um, management issues. We want impact to those Metrics from a shop floor, you know, value added work, uh, perspective. So once we allow things to creep in, it's really going to defocus us

Speaker A: and guy following up there, are there anything that you've seen from a sustainment standpoint that really works well when looking to lock in and really solidify change? Yeah.

Speaker C: I think Dave brought to light some of the, really the key elements.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I think it is about the system design where we need to really understand are we creating a system that is sustainable from the start and we can observe it as we implement the system. We can observe, um, where are the challenges, are they actual challenges or is it resistance for using the system? And once we see that the system is actively working, that it is something sustainable, then it's. I think exactly what Dave said is the management system should be the foundation for how we work through problems and issues as they come up. And what's usually what is going to get into in the way is another perceived issue. Right. So it's about remembering that the management system needs to be that foundation. Uh, no other meetings get replaced by if there's a tier meeting scheduled, nothing else gets placed on top of it. Right. Again, never missing a meeting and recognizing that it's a very slippery uh, slope. Right. The moment that we miss one day and it was accepted to any degree, for any reason, then it suddenly becomes okay. So that can happen and there may be reasons for why we won't fill out the board or why we won't have this meeting. And I think that's what really breaks the sustainment apart. But if we really are able to understand beyond the tools, beyond the workings of it, what we're really trying to drive through this system and how it's supporting us, I think that's what really helps drive sustainment. As long as we have a system that was designed with sustainability in mind in terms of not pulling away from day to day work of both the leaders and the operators. Right. Which is why we have the elements of standard work, leader standard work and all of that to help us make sure that we're looking holistically in how the system is going to function within their operating system.

Speaker A: Key takeaway and just from everything you guys have both touched on is the change is just as important, uh, to be fully developed and walked out, but also at the same time the tendencies of people and actions of teams. That is another aspect of the change that if not actually used and considered can be a really big detriment to any more higher level strategic change. So it's about having people change their daily actions, changing how they think about, uh, improvement, and also, uh, reporting into something like a management system and, uh, then making sure that's made consistent over time. I'm happy that I have that takeaway and feel like every time I'm speaking with you guys, I'm learning new things, whether it's about change management. Our last podcast episode on digital management systems. And I just want to thank both of you guys. We're kind of at time here. I think we've gone a little bit over, but I'm sure our listeners will be happy to have another couple minutes with us. Uh, but thank you, Dave. Thank you, Guy, so much for joining and sharing today. And if I could ask you guys one last thing, just maybe a word or two around today's discussion and change management, if you had some words of wisdom, what would that be?

Speaker B: You know, one of the things that is really important that we don't underestimate the magnitude of what change management does to initiatives. If we underestimate it, by and large, most initiatives fail or stall because we didn't do the change management piece. It's one thing to do what I call the mechanical change, which means, you know, you put the process in place, or in this case, the management system, but yet we don't engage and bring along the, the people, we're going to have problems.

Speaker C: I think that's exactly it. What I would say is to not lose sight of the human element and to remember that there's always reason and emotion to anything that we do in the way that anyone lives their lives. So it's important to always look at what we're doing holistically. And I think that's what can really support the change management piece. Remembering that there's a lot more to it, uh, beyond the mechanical aspect of it.

Speaker A: That's going to wrap up our conversation today. Guy, Dave, thank you again. And to all of our listeners out there, thanks for tuning in to the manufacturing edge. If this conversation today is something that resonated with you, or if you're actively navigating change in your organization, uh, we at TBN would love to hear from you. So don't hesitate to reach out with any questions, comments. Until next time. Stay curious, stay consistent, and keep pushing the edge.