One Year Later: Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring Reflect on Unfolded

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg, and for the next couple weeks, we're gonna be doing something just a little bit different here on the podcast. As you may or may not know, maybe you've already read it, but the national best-selling book, Unfolded Lessons and Transformation from an origami crane by our very own Dr. Linda and Brian Schuberg, a national bestseller, is about a year old.

So today on the podcast, I'm gonna be talking to Brian and Linda about what surprised them in the process. What sorts of things on a personal level have struck them in ways that they maybe didn't anticipate, and what sort of an impact has this book had on them personally? And over the next couple weeks, we're gonna be talking about some reflections from some of the readers and then how this book has been used in a teen setting. This is a Leadership Vision podcast.

Enjoy. Things about the process that maybe took you by surprise or you weren't expecting. We're gonna talk about other people later. I'm really curious, I want to focus on the two of you.

Like what surprised you about the process? What has maybe changed or grown in you personally from having this beautiful little blue book out in the world? And uh yeah, I have some more follow-ups, but let's just kind of start with Aaron see where this goes. I think the surprising thing for me is how excited I was and have been to share the book, our words, our sentiments with people.

I thought it would be something that it's like, oh yeah, and by the way, we wrote a book. But for me, as I have heard people and their stories and their desires and their longings, there's there's something for me is like, I have something for you. And so to know that Brian and I put our heart and our soul into this work and then we get to share it with people, I think what's surprised me is that I experienced delight. Did you not expect delight?

I had no idea. I had no idea. And you put your you put your words into the world and then you wonder, you know, what is gonna happen. And all obviously ours is not a a thriller or you know, painful, um but it's a feel-good story that I think the world needs right now.

Yeah. Did you ever feel self-conscious about that? Like, was there any part of either of you, I guess, that was like I don't know if this is gonna resonate, I think it will, or were you like, no, this is this is gold. Take it.

Like I okay. I I have this knowing that it does resonate. So I'm so there's there's a part of me where I know that the fundamental principles resonate to humankind. Uh so I I wasn't not sure what the word was you used.

Um I wasn't self-conscious on the theme. Um, and we had so many people doing the pre-reads that were affirming the message of the story, and they were coming from so many different backgrounds that it was a um a great confirmation for me to know that the message resonated. So that for me um is is like a wave that I've been riding in the last 10 months since the book has been out. Yeah, I I would add to that in that I don't think it was gold, Nathan.

I don't think that necessarily gold is the word that I would use. Silver. But uh part of the reason I'm proud is that it pays homage not just to the work that we do, but to the many clients and leaders and teams that we have sat with, learned from, and to know that their fingerprints in our life then translated onto the pages of this little book. I asked a question before I let Brian answer the first one.

So I'm gonna go back. Okay. The surprise question, Brian. Did you was there anything about the process or now that it's been out that has surprised you again, kind of from the personal, like what it's done to you?

What surprised me about the process of writing is that how Linda and I wrote the book together is how we write together in general. So many times when people ask what it was like to co-author a book, I found myself saying the story of how it happened. And I'm um surprised that it sounds so normal to me because this is how we interact, not just in writing curriculum, but in how we work, how we bounce ideas off of each other and how low the barrier is for us to share ideas and modify each other's ideas.

I'm also surprised somewhat on how people respond to that story because they put themselves in a position where they're imagining working this closely with their spouse or their partner or their their kids for that matter, family members, and they have a hard time making that connection, which I've found uh surprising because I live the opposite. Um, either either way, it's a creative process. You figure it out for yourself, and I'm surprised at how it's been how the story has been a confirmation on the relationship that Linda and I share in how it is that we approach our work and how it is that we approach life.

And I'm surprised that the fun is just starting, it feels like. Yes, I mean it's been the book has been out, but I think that's a surprise. Well, and and what doesn't surprise me is that we are constantly learning, adding, changing, evolving. But what does surprise me is that I still not you know feel the high of when we landed number five on the USA Today bestseller list, just saying.

Um but rather the high- when you did what? Where uh the number five, like right after Stephen King, right after uh okay, go on, go on. Sorry, finish your thought. You finished my thought.

And my thought is I I'm still I'm delighted in the story because it has become a lens that I see through, a filter that I hear through, that I am not saying, oh, that's just like our book, but sometimes when people are feeling very much alone, because leaders do right now, and I share some of the nuances of the book, that for me is I'm like, we're just getting started on this journey. Listeners, if you didn't know this, we recorded two podcast episodes on each chapter where we kind of really dissected and unpacked it.

And in chapter five, the home chapter, I read this the section uh where I will listen and offer to remember to learn to fly is to learn to love, to love and accept yourself for who you are, da da da. And Brian got a little emotional because he talked about the how that part was so meaningful for him and it really resonated with me. Are there any other moments like that where someone has reflected back to you? Wow, this paragraph, this page, this chapter was so impactful, and it like hit you in a way because you're like, wow, that's why I wrote it.

That that came from such a personal, vulnerable place, and to see someone else kind of take that. Do you have examples like that or moments where it just like I don't know, like how we experienced briefly in the podcast where you got choked up? You're like, well, there's a couple of examples with that that come to mind right away. One's specific and one's general.

Okay. The specific one was I was talking to a friend of mine who read the book, and um, she's actually a member of our swim class. So I brought a signed copy and uh folded origami crane in a big plastic bag so it wouldn't get wet uh at the pool. Gave it to her underwater.

Well, she read the story, and the next week when I saw her, her response was around Fox. And so she was so frustrated. Um and it was personal to her because she said, I know these people, and she's talking about how much they drive them crazy. And then she also referred to you know um characteristics of the fox being in her, and those moments when people take uh the characters of the book, apply it to themselves, it's surprising and reaffirming.

And then the other um part is hearing back from people where they tell us their own story of how strongly they've resonated with the themes of the book and how it's helped them through something. I mean, authors tell you that these um moments are going to happen when you're out there in the world speaking and working with people, but when it does happen to you, it is surprising and it's humbling at the same time. And it also reminds me of the why that I wrote the book is because I want to have that type of human connection that Linda and I can have with people where they have a story that they have received, they put themselves in that story within their context and provide their own interpretation.

That's why the allegory was so important. Yeah. That's those are surprising moments and reaffirming moments for me. And the other surprise is the the multitude of ages and life experience.

And we wrote this book very simple on purpose and so that it would be accessible to many people, but it would also be one of those, you know, as some of the teams that we're working with, when the leader says, Hey, you gotta read read this book, I'm like, uh I've I've been on the receiving end of that. And we wanted something both light and easy as well as deep and as as wide and deep as you want to go. So, one more surprise. Last month um we were in our first session of a six-month-long leadership cohort.

And at the beginning, as the crowd's assembling, we're walking around and we're passing out materials, and part of the way I connect is I will pass out an orgamic crane to each person, say hello, introduce myself. And I came to one woman and I handed her a crane, and she had this odd response to holding a crane made of a map, and she kind of looked at me and she said, Thank you, and I told her like what not to do with it, and then I kind of went on. Yes, and so I don't like to meet people right away.

I like to I like to introduce myself, but I don't like to chit-chat right away. I want I want to reserve that for uh when we've actually stepped into it. So Brian likes to connect at first, I like to connect a little bit later, but I could not help look at this woman and look at her response to Brian. So I stepped in and I was like, Yeah, look.

And she said, It's an origami crane. It's very similar to a book I just read called Unfolded. And and I read it and I listened to it. This one right here?

I read it and I listened to it, and I'm thinking, is she is she playing with me? Is this a bit? What's happening here? And and so I just learned and she's like, and there's this beautiful place because it just reminds me of the the crane OC, and she's made of a map, and and there's a part in there that says the the shape you are today is not the shape you have to stay, and it's the story of her, and she's going on and on.

And I said, Well, how did you how did you learn about this book? And she said, Well, um, there's some people that are gonna use it in these sessions. I was like, Well, that's us. That's us.

And she she looked at me surprised, and so to receive this kind of wonder, she wasn't trying to impress me. I wasn't the like she didn't hadn't put all the pieces together. And she's like, Oh, I wish I would have brought my copy for you to sign. And I said, Well, we have we will have signed copies already for you.

That's part of this, that's part of this program. And for me, uh well, and also I was like, and you said you you listened to it? She said, Yes. I was like, that was my voice.

And so once again, it's it's this yeah, it was this unique interaction that I thought she's not trying to impress me, she's not trying to butter me up, she's not trying to, you know, uh get closer to me because we are the you know, facilitators or the speakers for uh this program. She was just genuinely like taking some of the story in. And so when I recounted the story to Brian and a couple other teammates, I yeah, I was just cracking up. It was um it was lovely.

And to bear witness to that, that for me is everything. Because she if she didn't like it and she didn't know this origami thing, and she was like, nothing that's gonna be the whole thing. Exactly. Um to cut to kind of close out this little mini episode, is there anything that you would add to what you put in the book?

You know, you'll hear authors that'll re-release a book a few years later with you know an appendix or a new forward or something as their ideas have evolved or they've like, oh, I wanted to add this. Is there anything that that you would add to what you said? My answer is no. Okay.

We were so thoughtful in what we put into the writing. Uh I was able to write a postscript that I read um uh in the in the audiobook version, and so that was a little bit add-on. But I think for me it's a stand it's a standalone right now, and the next iteration or the next uh sequel might look a little different. What about you, Brian?

What are you would you change anything? I agree. Uh as an allegory, uh the simplicity and the potential complexity of the book I feel stands on its own. I have reread the book, I think, 11 times since it's been published.

And there is something I I I like how it flows. I have unlimited amounts of thoughts on what's next and where this can go because of the work that we've been doing. But as this stands, there isn't an additional chapter I would add. Um I I do enjoy where the book sits right now.

I love it. In part because that's what because we use it. Yeah. I mean that's yeah.

Yeah. So la I guess the very last question here, and we will end with this. Uh the whole idea of Unfolded is you had these big dreams, you soar in the sky, you do your thing, but then you have to come back home. The two of you, where would you say that you are at in this journey?

Have you come back back to home? Are you still soaring in the sky? Like Unfolded was in and of itself a sort of unfolding for the two of you. Is that a an easy answer to to end on with this?

Because I um Are you gonna take a stab at this first? Let's try. Let's see what happens. I have my I know my my answer is.

Then you start. Okay. My answer is pretty simple. Okay.

Uh, and beneath that other side of that simplicity coin is great complexity. Where am I in the book? I am in the scene where O. C is making her first attempt to fly, just kind of bouncing around in the branches of the cottonwood trees.

That's a feeling that I have right now where I feel like I'm unintentionally or accidentally running into branches that feel like obstacles, but it's just it's it's a more of a navigation challenge for me than it actually is an obstacle. And sometimes, as the two of you know, I can focus on the complexities and not see the pathway through. I can see you on the camera, Linda. I can totally see you on the camera.

I can see Nathan too. Nathan's looking the same way. That's where I'm at. Uh dealing with the the the branches.

Uh-huh. I can resonate with all of the chapters based on the area or topic or place I am in my in my life. And I think I I think we even wrote that into the uh the second part, uh, the second part of the book. As we're even thinking about ways to extend the reach of unfolded, I do, I feel like we are or feel like I am in that try stage.

You know, we're trying this, we're trying that, and there's part of me that just longs to jump off the platform and get to the fly stage. And so I've made mention this to Deb Dixon, who wrote our forward, who is our senior advisor who walks with us. And so I just made mention to it. That was like an off-handed comment because obviously books like this or those sentiments can be used as vernacular for to be a shorthand with other people.

And she wrote back to me this. Unfortunately, it is easier to write an end to a chapter than it is to complete all the actual trying required to move on. And she said some other really lovely and encouraging things and reminded us of who we are and played that true, true owl uh character in our life. And I thought, I just wanted you to say it's almost over.

Um, like we're almost to fly. That's not what I wanted to do. And and I think if we rush through the chapters too quickly, that we miss the opportunity to live. Well said.

I love that. Well, Brian and Linda, thank you for sharing just a little a little bit of your journey and your story and reflections on uh this crazy year of Unfolded. And thank you, listeners, for listening to the Leadership Vision podcast. If you have not yet picked up your copy of Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an origami crane, there is a link in the show notes, or you can find it wherever good books are sold.

My name is Nathan Freebring. I'm Linda Schuberg. And I am Brian Schoberg. And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.