179. How Clear Communication Elevates Customer Service with Barbara Khozam

And what I have found is when the owners of the company or the CEO, COO, all the OO people, when they buy into customer service, meaning we treat everyone with respect, right? So when they buy into that concept, it rolls down nicely. But when they don't believe in supporting their managers or their employees, They don't recognize when that is missing, then they blame it all on the front desk staff and it doesn't work. It's huge.

Well, hello and welcome to the Keynote Curators podcast. I'm Seth Deckman, your keynote curator. And our guest today is Barbara Kazam. She doesn't talk about service as a department.

She talks about it as a culture. Her current message is clear. When service slips, trust erodes fast, and customer experience usually reflects what's happening inside the team first. Barbara, welcome to our podcast.

Thank you, Seth. I am excited to be here today. Yay. We are too.

I know our audience is because they love this topic and they love to really dive deep into these ideas. Barbara, a lot of companies think that bad service is a training issue, but your work keeps pointing to something different and deeper. That's usually a culture issue first. Why do organizations notice those breakdowns so late in the game?

I think they're not looking at the big picture, perhaps, or they're not looking at themselves. It starts at the top. And what I have found is when the owners of the company or the CEO, COO, all the OO people, when they buy into customer service, meaning we treat everyone with respect, right? So when they buy into that concept, it rolls down nicely.

But when they don't believe in supporting their managers or their employees, they don't recognize when that is missing, then they blame it all on the front desk staff and it doesn't work. It's huge. There's things like value statements and mission statements and, you know, all these core values of an organization. But you say that customers don't experience those per se, They experience the behavior.

So let's get right under the hood here. What's one small thing a team does that instantly tells us that a customer, the people work, like tells us as the customer that the people working there actually care for them? Oh, it's easy. Like the greeting, for example, whether the greeting is on the phone, whether it's when someone walks in, or if it could be like, let's say a store, you're going to buy something, right?

You know, and like, you may not be greeted at a regular store, but you're standing there to buy something and someone still acknowledges you. Hi, we'll be right with you. Like that little acknowledgement, that alone sets a different tone, but we don't do that half the time. And I agree with you about the values, the missions and all that.

Like we, companies have them, what it's on their, it's funny. When I do a presentation, I ask, raise your hand if you have a mission statement. They all raise their hand. I go, tell me if you know what it is.

Keep your hand up if you know what it is. Most of the hands go down. So that is the core, right? Like, do we have mission?

Do we have values? Do the people on our teams buy into those? Do we know how to act on those values? Do we know what respect looks like?

Like, what's the behavior associated with that? you know but there's a big disconnect between all of this stuff do you can can a company you know we're not doing an endorsement here but for the sake of the conversation is there a company that comes to mind or a few that do a really great job of that well i can give you an example i worked years ago i hope i can say this out loud it's a good story i should be able to yeah come on I worked with Kaiser Permanente in San Diego. I live in San Diego.

Now, Kaiser Permanente is very large. They've got like 19 buildings and thousands of employees. And this is what really brought it home for me is they wanted me to do patient experience training for the frontline staff and medical assistants. I'm like, okay, here we go.

But the man on top of the whole thing, he was into it. He's like, okay, so we're going to have a manager. First, we're going to train our managers so the managers can be role models and they know how to communicate. And then if anyone is not on board with this new thing we're doing, they're out.

So they were, when we started, they were rated 13 out of the 13 Kaisers in San Diego, like the worst. And then after we worked together, they became number one at where they remain today because of the guy at the top who basically changed that culture. But, you know, people don't like it, you know? Right.

They don't. So, but he said, if you're not on board, then, you know, bye-bye. And, you know, I'll give you a coin, a two-sided coin, kind of little bit of an introspection that I'd like you to speak to. You know, you have a leader like that in this example, Kaiser Permanente, who takes an organization from the bottom of the barrel, 13th to first, and they're still there.

And, you know, it could be said where the team goes is where the leader is going. So that's great. And he was willing to make the hard you know hard decisions the hard choices And you know it this way or you know you got to find your own way which can sound hard and draconian even but there is a reality. It is a business.

And in this case, healthcare, people's lives are taken care of. What have you learned? And what do you impart when there's the characteristic of someone who has taken the change, the offering, the invitation to, hey, look, this isn't working and this is the new pathway and they walk on that pathway, albeit hard, or those that continue to resist and make an obstacle and kind of put themselves in their own way from really changing and making that transformation. What do you see on both sides of that that happens?

Right. So the ones that seem to succeed in this environment truly have a, I call it the attitude of service. So they're serving not just their customers, they're serving their employees. Like they want to give, they want to get ideas from staff before making changes, Seth, right?

I'm going to change your electronic health record. No, I'm going to find out from the staff who use it, what needs to be changed, if anything? Okay. Attitude of service.

That's great because they're not just serving the end, the client, the customer who's receiving the service and paying, but internally the leader is serving and the employees and the team and the entire building, in this case, in Kaiser Permanente. Yes. We're going to talk about love here, miss kazam you ready you know customer love begins inside in your experience why do leaders keep trying to fix the customer experience without addressing their employees experience first because it's the easiest thing to try i i've been hired so many times by leaders and they're like oh you know uh you need to train the front desk staff and the people who answer the phone So I can do that.

It's short term, but that's an easy thing to blame, right? Oh, someone commented on our phone people. Let's train them. That's easy.

But the longer term game is the internal customers. Right. And if you're dealing internal customers, you're talking about employees, right? That's correct.

Right. And you're bringing love to them. So your supposition is that if we're loving them up, then the phone training won't be needed because they'll answer the phone in a gentile manner. Right.

I mean, some people don't know how to answer the phone. I mean, that's easy to teach, right? Say your name. And if they already love where they work and what they do, that's easy, right?

Yeah. But if they don't, it's a problem. Yeah. When you're out there in this world.

Yeah. And you've traveled all over giving keynote speeches all over this planet. What are some examples? It could be one or two or even more where you have just been absolutely blown away, enthralled and delighted by a customer service experience that just you didn't see coming that just blindsided you.

Well, you know, I there's been a lot actually, but my local discount tire is fantastic. Every time I walk in, they do everything right. I don't know what's going on there. So they had name badges so I could see them.

As soon as I walk in, if there's people in line, they'll say, oh, you know, we'll be right with you. They acknowledge. Then they explain in layman's term what the tire issue thing is. I don't ever have to go, what are you talking about?

then they don't upsell me. They, they simply, I hope, I don't think they do. I don't feel like they are. And even if they mess up because I had a bad experience a month ago, the manager called me and was almost crying.

He was so upset. It was so bad. And he's like, I am so sorry. And I'm going to work with these people.

Like it is phenomenal. And it's a discount tire. I'm like, if they can do it, I think other people can do it. Yeah, for sure.

I don't know how frequently you're going to the tire shop either. Are you going there a lot? Well, I had some issues. But the point is that they're consistently good.

It's not like I go to, it's one guy at the store. No, every time I go, and it could be years in between every time I go, they're good. So that's a great, that's a, that's one of the experiences for you where it's, you've been, you know, just so pleased. What about the opposite of that?

An experience where not throwing people under the bus where it's just been, you can't even believe it's happening. You know, and this is a perfect example. You want to hear one of those stories? I sure do.

Oh my gosh. This happened to me recently, this year. so it was a hotel i won't say the name of it it was a hotel in new orleans i was attending a conference and it was right after mardi gras so maybe that's an excuse i don't know so i walk into the front desk there are five people employees not helping anybody just sitting there right talking to each other so i'm standing there i'm standing there i'm standing there Finally, someone says, oh, okay, you know, come over here. So he helps me or like super quick, which is fine, I guess, right name, blah.

And then he hands me the key. And I'm like, oh, well, does this hotel have restaurants? Or is there any ways I could get food? And he goes do you want a map I like okay so that wasn good So after I go to my room i go to a little market there like a little market i mean like this is ridiculous i go to this little market there two employees working who don't acknowledge me at all right so i i'm walking around whatever they have a self service computer screen thing where you could check out oh no that not all the items are on there so what I had wasn't on the computer I had to go back to those people who weren't acknowledging the three people standing in line we're just standing there right okay so that was bad so then I go to the gym I go to the gym and there's a lady standing behind or sitting behind the counter you know like this on her phone I walk up and she's like it you know kind of what of the, I'm like, Oh, I'd like to use the gym.

She's like, yeah, it's over there. I'm like, well, do I, do I say, are there towels or yeah, it's inside. I'm like, Oh, but so then I go to the restaurant. I'm like, okay, I want, you know, I got to eat, you know?

So I go to the restaurant. The it's not open. The bartenders like annoyed that I'm there. The waitress though was really nice.

And she helps me and she goes, would you like a salad or fries? Whatever. When I get my bill, there's an upcharge for the salad. She didn't say, oh, there's if you want salad, but there's an upcharge.

Okay. So then I'm finally checking out. Oh, I'm checking out again, go to the front desk. No one's acknowledging me.

The lady finally, you know, calls me over and she's like, room, put your key over there, you know? And then she goes, do you want a receipt? And I'm like, yes, yeah, that would be nice. Printed?

Like, yeah, I'm old. So she gives me the receipt and I go, oh, I don't understand a couple of these charges. I thought I had a credit. And she goes, it's credited right on there.

It's on the receipt, the credit. It was awful. What, five different? So I called the manager.

I left a voicemail for the general manager. and he ended up calling me back and apologized, but I'm telling you, no, it was no good. Seth. Yeah.

I hear you. You and I both travel a lot. And, you know, sometimes when I check in and they give me a five minute, you know, monologue on every restaurant and every machine in the gym, I'm like, you know, I let them run with it, but sometimes it's, you know, midnight and I want to get to my room. But yeah, look, that's just an example of it seems systematic and it seems more on the inside, right?

Like the belly of the beast, you know, and a lot of that service damage doesn't come from like one really big mistake. It's building from a collection of those small little actions, you know, whether it's not being acknowledged, tone, defensiveness, you know, rushed communication, whatever it is, which of the ones that you encountered there you think did the most damage the fastest? And then for our audience, our viewers who love customer service, what would you say to them to talk to their teams about, let's prevent this, let's get in front of this?

Yeah, it was the front desk experience by far. By far. Because my first impression, It's my first and my last impression. We're both horrible.

Right. Like I'll forget the middle stuff. But that first one wasn't good. It was too fat.

Like you could kind of tell when someone's in a hurry and they want the info or they don't want the information. But I was looking around going, gosh, I'm hungry. You know, like it's about being present with each person, each moment. And then the last lady, that was my last impression.

I'm walking out the door pissed off. I was pissed. Yeah. And that's what I remember.

So if people, if customers or organizations can tighten up those first and last, and for some of them, the phone is the first impression. Like in medical practices, 80% of patients still call. Yeah. And if we don't like how we're answering.

And what's the problem with medical stuff is now it's online, right? I could do everything online. So patients have a great online experience. I registered, I got a reminder, but everything's great digitally.

And then I walk in and someone says, sign in and have a seat. Uh-oh, that's a problem, right? There's no consistency. Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that.

Before we started recording, I shared that I've, you know, recently, in November, but it's still recent, I had shoulder replacement surgery. It's pretty complex surgery. I'm back on the tennis court regularly. I was remarkably, like remarkably astonished at how thorough the high level of service was sustained on, you can call it a touch point, because I'm talking from the first MRI to the pre-surgery plan, to the surgery orientation, to the pre-op, to the post-op, to every from going from when they put in my nerve blocker.

into the OR post. I mean, I just met with my surgeon for the, it's about the six month, you know, our next one is going to be our next checkup is the year anniversary of the surgery. Checking in there, walking into the building, the greeting, the thoroughness, the follow-up, just like, I'm, and I'm like an optimist. I wasn't waiting for the shoe to drop.

I just, they sustained it on a very high level. And it's really extraordinary, you know, and look, I not getting surgeries all the time you know so it not like I have a lot of experience but I do know when I have gone into whether it annual blood work or some you know routine type of thing, it's not always like, you know, this five-star, you know, concierge level type of thing. And it really was extraordinary, you know, and what I'm left with in the work that we do that you and I do, and, you know, I'm curating the keynotes and you're delivering them is that that kind of stuff, it doesn't happen by accident.

Right. And with something like that, there's coordination between all those different pieces. Yeah. Right?

Like to be high level like that is intentional. They have workflows. They have structure. They don't drop the ball.

And that's unusual nowadays. Right. And along the way, I wouldn't call it friction, but there were some things where I had to, I was traveling unexpectedly, I had to adjust an appointment, or I had a very specific question that was kind of outside the scope of what, you know, what we were kind of progressing along. And, you know, what I found is, I'd like you to speak to this, like, what is the difference between just being polite and genuinely being helpful?

Because when I veered off of like this steady path of progress, that's where it really hit the road. Like they had to go out of their way off of the routine to serve me, you know, which felt like more than just being polite. What would you say that difference between being polite and genuinely helpful? Well, it's like, what's our goal?

Is our goal to satisfy the customer so that they get what they want or maybe not what they want, but what they need. Right. Or is it just to be nice to them? I could be nice and not get you what you want.

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you know, that's nice.

That's outside our scope. Sorry. That's nice. I said it nice.

Right. I mean, right. But it's not serving and it's not moving it forward. Right.

I mean, it's, it's going above and beyond. That's what people remember. Right. But, But a company always, always think, oh, I have to spend extra money to go above and beyond.

No, you don't. No, it's about being present. Say more about that. Say more about that.

You know, like, oh, I have to, a customer, if they're unhappy, I have to give them 50% off. I don't know if you have to do that, you know, but it's by being present and acknowledging that person. Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry you had that issue. You know what?

what we're going to do next time is I'm going to make sure you get in that appointment when you need it. You know, we're going to make sure you get the doc, you know, you don't, it doesn't, it's not always money. It's not always a money thing that satisfies people. We get that in our head sometimes, but most of the time it's being present, right?

Like acknowledging the person. Sorry, you're going through this issue. Let me listen and let me deliver what you want or close to it. You know, how did that manager when, when you left the message, they call you back.

How do you think that the manager performed? He was great. He was great. Yeah.

He let me vent. A lot of managers will start making excuses. Oh, well, you know, Mardi Gras was just three days ago. They're tired, you know.

But no, no. This guy, he let me vent. I told the whole story again, you know. And he apologized.

He was perfect. He acknowledged what I said. He apologized. He said he would do training or whatever.

And then he gave me 25,000 points or something. Yeah. which I didn't care about. Yeah.

I often say, you know, when they say they're sorry, I'm like, I appreciate you, you know, apologizing. I would have just preferred to have gone into the hotel, gotten some great direction. So I didn't have to work harder than you all to take care of me as one of your clients, you know, and then, and, and the whole experience of, you know, going through the restaurant, the lobby and the market and everything like that would have just been frictionless. But, you know, I was doing a lot more than, uh, what was, what was happening.

So I just, you know, I, whenever I get the points, it's kind of like, you know, okay, that's great. But maybe, you know, you need to 10 X that because my time and energy is worth a lot more than, you know, any points you can give me, you know? Yeah. Like it would have been cool if he had said, okay, so we're going to add this to our training.

We're going to add, like, tell me what he's going to do. But, you know, he was nice. Did you tell him that you were, you know, you worked in customer service? Well, my email signature has that on there.

Right. Right. So I'm hoping he got the point. Yeah.

That would have been interesting if he didn't pick that up or did pick it up and what he did with it, you know. I know. I did tell him that, well, I do this for a living and maybe I'm pickier than other people. I did kind of say that.

Right. I don't know. That's funny. Well, listen, Barbara, we're at the end of our service and talking about service and love.

And I just want to thank you, not just for being a guest and being so fun and lighthearted, but the work you do is making a difference. And, you know, whether it's, you know, with the health health care groups that you work with or every other industry, you know, you come in and you bring that impactful message. And it's just so appreciated that we were able to share your message with us today. So thanks so much.

My pleasure. Thanks, Seth, for what you do. I appreciate you. You got it.

And to our audience, again, you can view us on our YouTube channel. Listen on all platforms. You can find us on every platform. and just thank you for continuing to come back.

We love it. We love you. And we'll see you next time.