The Best Version of You: Sales, Mindset & Performance with Daniel Burns

Speaker A: Be inspired by the best sales professionals, sales leaders and coaches in the world of B2B sales. From IT services, medical devices through to coaching and consulting companies, these principles will help you accelerate your sales performance and growth. Using models from the best selling book, Inspire Influence Sell and award winning programs from Focus for Growth, you'll have the inside track on the psychology skills and systems used by the world's best sales teams. We'll hear from some of the best sales leaders from some of the fastest growing businesses in the world. They don't achieve record breaking growth by chance. Um, they have a proven sales and leadership approach and a laser focus on growth. You can hear exactly how they do it one conversation at a time. This is the Inspire Sales podcast and I'm your host, Justin Lee. In today's episode of the Inspire Sales podcast, I'm going to be talking to Daniel Burns. Daniel and I met actually through some mutual contacts and on LinkedIn and I've been on Daniel's podcast. He has a podcast called the Sales Problem Podcast which, uh, you should definitely check out. But when we go into conversation with Daniel today, it's not your usual conversation. Normally we talk purely about sales and we talk about sales effectiveness and how to improve sales effectiveness. You may be using technology. Today's conversation takes a different turn. Daniel's business is called Best Version of Me and he really thinks about the person. You know, he talks about sales and people and actually we should be really pulling out the people element of that and understanding the person, helping them to become the best version of them. It's a really inspiring conversation. I enjoyed it, actually. I expected to enjoy it. I enjoyed it more than I expected. I found more value in it. It's got me really thinking and reflecting and I hope it's going to have the same impact for you today. So enjoy this amazing conversation with Daniel Burns. Here we go. Welcome to the Inspire Sales Podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Daniel Burns. And now Daniel, who will introduce himself to you shortly, is the founder of a, uh, company called BVME Performance Coaching. I love what BVME actually stands for. So the abbreviation means Best version of Me. I love that idea. Uh, Daniel is pretty well established. He's a best selling author, he's a certified performance coach, he's a, a speaking coach, he's a personal trainer. He's got 25 or more years of international sales and management experience. And uh, there's lots more I could explain about Daniel, but I'm going to let him do the talking for himself. Daniel Huge. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us, Justin.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me on the podcast and, uh, I'm ready to inspire. So excited to be here.

Speaker A: Excellent. Me m. Me too. Thanks, Daniel. Thank. Thanks for in advance for everything you're about to share with our listeners. So, um, obviously, you know, this is where you are today. Very often it's people, you know, people kind of hear interviews or discussions with people that are at a stage in their careers. But what we sometimes forget or overlook is what happened in the past, the experiences that were going to get us here. So give us a, an idea of your background. How did you get here?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So 25 plus years in sales and uh, I came straight out of university. Justin went right into a sales role.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, I started actually selling photo copiers, which is probably the hardest product I've ever sold in my life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But that is where I fell in love with sales. So to me, going door to door making cold calls, it was really sales school. So I learned how to sell in that job. I also love that I would go through one door, say something and get thrown out. And then the next door I would change up, uh, my speech and I would get a lead that would then lend, you know, go to a sale. So I got really fascinated with, you know, how people make decisions, uh, the art and craft of sales. And I've loved it ever since. And uh, so for the first 10 plus years of my career, it was all about achievement. The thing I loved about sales is it's unlimited. So if you want to go out there and work hard, your, uh, numbers are going to go up, you're going to win all the awards. And Justin, I chased every President's club, Eagles Club, uh, you know, first place in the country. That was my jam. And I loved it. Yeah. Then at a certain point in my sales career, after about 10 or 12 years, I got into management and things took a big shift and I went from achievement to contribution. So it happened in an instant. Justin. I had a, uh, sales rep who was really undervalued and spent some time really coaching them, working one on one, going out in the field with them. And at the end of a year, she got up on stage and she got an award, which was one of the first times she had received an award. And in her speech she said, I want to thank Daniel for, you know, being at my side. And for a split second that felt better than any award that I had ever won myself. I was so proud of her. And, you know, everything we had done and I went, oh, m. You know, bit of a, uh, moment where the bells went off. And I thought, this is what is really fulfilling. So I've spent the last 10 plus years coaching, got my certification so that I can help people get to the place that they want to be, that achievement they want for themselves. So it's a good mix. Now I try to case my own goals and help other people get to their goals, which is where the best version of me really comes in. I'm working on my best version, but I really love helping other people get to their best version.

Speaker A: Yeah. Nice. And I think there's a quote, uh, I will sometimes use in, uh, sessions that I run with clients. I think it's a Zig Ziglar quote, if you remember Zig Ziglar. I do. And it basically, the quote is something I'm going to, I'm going to do a disservice. But the quote is something along, along the lines of, if you help enough other people get what they want, you will get what you want. And it's so true in sales and in leadership, isn't it? Because actually in sales you've got to help the customer get what they want, and in leadership you've got to help your team get what they want. And when you're responsible for team performance, if your team don't get what they want, I. E. The performance and results as a manager, it's not possible for you to get it either.

Speaker B: 100%. I love that, that the whole servant leadership thing really resonates with me. And it's funny you bring up Zig Ziglar because a big piece of, I think why I'm in this space is I grew up with Zig Zigl, uh, and Brian Tracy, Brian Tom Hopkins and all these people that when I first got into sales, I was just kind of hungry for knowledge. And I would start my day before I made any calls, you know, with one of those books, sipping on a coffee and just getting inspired. And now I want to be one of those people that somebody listens to my podcast before they go out and make a sales call. And it's that thing they need to start their day and really, you know, perform at their best. That's what excites me.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and I, you know, we're singing from the same hymn sheet, you and I, so let's, uh, let's kind of. So that, that's the, the journey to getting here. And I understand you're doing both. So you work with clients and you're coaching and making an impact. You're also doing that with your own team as a sales manager in the healthcare environment, which is brilliant. So you've got almost the best of both worlds playing out, uh, as part of your role. So tell me about, you know, some of the ideas that you share with your teams, that you share with your clients. What are some of the things that really do move the needle and make the biggest impact?

Speaker B: Um, there are so many. I think one of the biggest ones that I'm a big proponent of is having a plan. And it sounds so simple, but so many people skip this step. I like to call it the blueprint, your best version. But I think wherever we are, we can get to where we want to go. But we need some type of roadmap. We need something that really outlines the steps along the way. And that's where I like to start with people is what do you want? It's one of the simple questions that I ask people in the beginning. And when somebody asked me, Justin, that question, I thought I knew the answer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I was surprised by trying to get to a level of clarity and explaining what I wanted was more difficult than I thought. So I really like to challenge people with all the areas of their life. One of the things I really believe is that salespeople, that's two separate words, right? There's the sales side of things, and then there's the people side of things. And, you know, if you're hitting your quota and you're smashing things out of the park, but you go home, you've got no relationship with your kids, your marriage is falling apart, your finances are in, uh, disarray, your fitness is just not there at all. You're feeling terrible. Is that success? Right. So I think we need to make a plan for our sales approach, but we also need to make a plan for the rest of our life and all the other major buckets that we, you know, have to consider when being a successful person and being our best version.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, uh, I completely agree. And it's interesting because that it always reminds me of a couple of things. The first thing is the traditional, classic Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where if you look at the hierarchy, actually when you get into that top zone of, you know, self actualization and self fulfillment, if the layers beneath that aren't solid, it feels empty. Feels as if you have no control over what you're trying to do. And actually it can end up meaning you sabotage yourself without realizing it. And the second thing, it makes me Remember is when I did my executive coach training, and one of the early exercises they had us work on was the Wheel of Life.

Speaker B: Yes. That's one of my favorites. Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah. And it's a brilliant process. It's so simple, where you just take the different segments. I think there were six or eight, depending on the. The wheel that you use. But it really helps you to think about the different areas of your life. And then you score yourself on a scale of 1 to 10 on each segment. And. And actually, interestingly, the advice is you don't have to get a 10 everywhere. You just have to be more consistent. Because if you've got a 10 somewhere and a 1 somewhere else, and then a 10 somewhere else and 1 somewhere else or 8 and a 2, you're going to end up, you know, if that's the wheel that you ride through life, it's a really bumpy ride if it isn't at least balanced around all of those different important areas. And I kind of brought me back to that as you were explaining. I love the idea of that holistic view of people as well as just the sales and performance.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, it's such a good point. And some of my favorite moments, Justin, with people, when you talk about helping other people get what they want, when I've sat down with people on my team and they say, I want to buy my first house. And that is. It's a separate goal from where they're going with their sales, but they are connected. You know, I want to take my family on this trip to Disney or a, uh, once in a lifetime, I want to go see this in the world. Okay, so you've got something that you want. Well, let's use, uh, you know, your sales goals to help generate the income to. To get you to your other goals. And when you're involved in somebody's life and helping them reach the things that they want, I think there's a level of fulfillment there in management that, one, we create a real connection to our team. Um, but two, we're really helping them move the needle in the areas of their life that are most important.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. So any salespeople or sales managers listening to this? Just think about that. What Daniel's explaining is actually, it's a bit like, you know, when we. When we talk to customers, we, uh. I'm a big fan of articulating or trying to get the customer to articulate the need behind the need. Customer says, oh, I need this thing. Right. This service or this solution. But Actually, there's a need behind that need, which is the deeper emotional driver. And it's the same with people. What you're describing there is getting rather than, I just want to hit my quota, I want to hit my target. I want to perform better in the team. Why are you looking to achieve that and kind of say, what are some of the goals that you're setting for yourself in order to motivate you to get there? And I. Having it work for. I probably. If I think about, you know, over the years, I bet I've worked for 15 different sales managers, and I'm not sure. I'm just trying to think whether any of them actually sat down and had that same conversation with me. Not in those terms. Not as. Not as explicitly or not as intentionally as that. It might come up in. In conversation. But then it wasn't joined up to, let's talk about a plan to get you there. I really like that as a, uh, as an approach with your team or with your clients.

Speaker B: You know, as managers, we're responsible for the business, and yes, we have to manage the numbers, but I really believe if you take care of the people, the people will take care of the business. And that's our biggest job as leaders, is to take care of the people. And when we say people, we have to remember that they're not just sales reps. You know, they're people with all kinds of challenges going on in their life. And when we sit down and we ask them about some of the challenges, sometimes it's not, you know, needing a different sales script. It's the things that are going on in their lives that, you know, are challenging. It's taking, uh, you know, their mental real estate. Um, and we need to address those things if we, you know, really want to get the best in people.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. And so. So let's see. Start with that question. You know, what is it? Yeah, what do you really want? And that takes a bit of articulating because I. I'm with you. When I've been asked that question, either by coaches or on, you know, programs that I've been on, you do have to stop and pause and think. Uh, especially if it's not. If it's not something you do regularly for yourself, like goal setting. So you get them to. Through conversations, you get them clearer on what they're trying to achieve, perhaps think about different areas of their life outside of just thinking about work and the business and sales and then what. So let's say they kind of get clear on A few ideas. They come back to a review with you. What's next, Daniel? What do you do next?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I've got a number of steps that I like to walk people through.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And the very first one, especially when we've got big goals. Justin.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think the key for me has always been, are you committed? So we first have to make the commitment to the goal.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, um, there's a guy that I listen to, I think his name's John Asaraf, who ask the question, are you committed or are you interested? And a lot of people are interested, but they're not committed. So I'd like to get in shape. I'd like to make president's club. But, uh, you know, they're really not committed to that goal. And once you make that commitment, once you say, I'm going to find a way or I'm going to make the way, but this is absolutely going to happen. Once you're committed, I think that flips the switch a little bit. And a good example is, you know, uh, if you're going to run a marathon, the commitment is signing up. You know, until you're registered, until you've paid the money, until your name is in that race officially, doesn't matter if you're training or not. That is your commitment. Now you're saying, I'm in the race. And a lot of people never put themselves in the race.

Speaker A: Yeah, true.

Speaker B: Then from there we have to work on, okay, so we're in the race. Now. What are the steps that we're going to take? And I love to kind of map things out, starting with the very smallest step that people can take. Because, Justin, the mistake I see so many people make, fitness is a great one. They go from being on the couch, being pretty sedentary, to, I'm starting on Monday, and it's an Olympic level, uh, regimen. You know, I'm gonna run 5k a day. I'm gonna lift weights. I'm gonna. You know, they try to do it all. When the smallest step gets you into the race. You know, once you're across that starting line, doesn't matter how small the step is. Now you're in the race. And if you think of a marathon, a lot, uh, a lot of the time, our big goals take time. So there's going to be a long road ahead of us. So is sprinting for the first 5k the best strategy that you could have in a marathon? Probably not. You might gas yourself a little bit. So I like to coach people through, but we Start small and we start to build momentum.

Speaker A: Yeah. So you're really trying to help them to sustain what they start with, continued action beyond just that first sprint or spurt. Because you're, you're right otherwise. And, and interestingly, you know, personal training is one of those areas that's a really good example here, because when you've, when you go from zero to exercise, you know, 5K or lifting weights at the gym or whatever it is that you do in that first sprint. Actually, you know what I've experienced, I, I, I'm, I've been doing it for like you, Daniel, I've committed to Fitness about 30 years ago, so I've been doing it for years. But when people make that first start, if they go in too fast and too hard, it's painful, physically painful. And if your association then is exercise equals pain, how much more, how much, how likely are you to continue exercising if the association in your head, every time I exercise, it causes me pain. And it's the same with our sales goals and our development goals. When we think about the work that we're doing, if you go and do a load of activity and in the short term, you know, because we build sales pipeline, we build sales capability over time. If you spend, you know, a week where I'm going to do loads and loads of calls, I'm going to do lots of activity and actually at the end of that week, you don't see a huge return for it. The association you start to get is, I do all this work, doesn't make a difference. We have to be able to sustain that over time as well, to recognize, you know, the day we plant the seed is not the day we reap the fruit. We have to be thinking really long term about not just health, but all different elements of, of the business of our lives, relationships, everything you've covered. Uh, I really like that as a, as a founding principle, get yourself started in a way that helps you to sustain and build momentum. Yeah, great, great, great, uh, idea. Yeah.

Speaker B: Some of the obstacles can come further down the road and if you're exhausted at that point and you hit the biggest obstacles, I want people to have the most energy, the most momentum when those bigger obstacles go. You know, like once you're further down the road, you've been doing it for a while, breaking through those plateaus gets harder and harder. And if your gas tank is on empty, rather than building up to something like that, where it gets more challenging, but you're actually starting to really hit your stride, I think that makes A big difference. And one of the things, Justin, I try to coach people through is just getting the consistency.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think one of the magic things that people miss when they're going towards their goals that I love, I geek out on it a little bit is tracking.

Speaker A: Tracking.

Speaker B: Yeah, tracking. So watching yourself go from day one to day 30 and really just crossing off the list the one or two things you need to do to really move the needle and making sure every day you get a win.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So did I do those one or two things or did I not? And let's be honest with ourselves. If we miss a day, it's okay. But you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, did I do it today, what I planned to do, or did I not? Okay, I might have got a loss today, but I've had three or four wins this week. So it's all about the consistency. And, you know, just like any sports, uh, you know, game that we watch at the end of the day, is it five to two? Well, you win the game if it's five to two, you may hit five days where you did it perfect and two where you missed, but you still won the game.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So. But if you're not tracking and if you're not paying attention to. Am I actually putting in the work to win the game? M. That's where sometimes people miss.

Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree. And you know, when you start to talk about tracking, numbers, planning. Normally when I talk to sales teams, they kind of roll their eyes at planning and tracking. Uh, largely because most salespeople are extroverted. They like being with customers, they like building relationships. This is the stuff that really fires them up. And then the planning is the deeper work that, uh, normally they find, I don't know, maybe a little more draining rather than energizing. And I think the tracking is the same. But the great thing about tracking, and I'm like you, uh, I firmly believe in these things. I didn't always because. Because I was a classic salesperson. I enjoyed being out in the field. I was tearing around a territory. But I've had to train myself over the years that these things are equally important and valuable. But the great thing about tracking, I was on a coaching program about three years ago, and one of the first time I'd ever heard the term someone on the coaching program they're leading, it said, here's an idea for you as entrepreneurs or. And I, uh, see myself as a bit of a business owner entrepreneur now because I'm. But I'm still in sales Right. Because I run my own business, but I'm still firmly in sales. And I think this is equally important for sales. Their mantra was always measure backwards. Because we're always looking at the sales target, we're always looking to the future, we're always building pipeline. We're always thinking, where's the next deal coming from? How do I make sure I, uh, create enough value? But what we don't often do is look back and think, look how far I've come, Look how much I've achieved. Look how much value I've already created. And that's the beauty of tracking. You can only do that always, you know, measure backwards. If you're tracking what you've achieved so far, and it's as salespeople and people who are high performers, I think we are often our own worst critic. We're the ones that are constantly going, well, I could have done more. I should, you know, even though I've got five days. Yes. I focus on the two where I didn't do what I needed to do. And actually to build momentum, we have to do that positive self reinforcement cycle.

Speaker B: I, I think that's such a great point. One of the things that I loved in sales was working backwards.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I never really understood that idea of, okay, somebody wants a payment of this. It means that we have a, uh, a capital equipment allowance of this amount. But we started from the payment and worked back to, you know, of the equipment. So once those types of ideas started to get into my head, that's what got me excited. And one of the ones that I love to talk to people about is contrary thinking.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it kind of falls in line here because, um, you know, if we're not doing anything different, then we're going to continue to get the same results. And I love to challenge people with that because when they go to put their plan together, what I see is that people are taking the same steps they've tried in the past. So if I was trying to lose weight, I might go to Orange Theory. And I, you know, it was the start of the new year and I lasted eight days and then I quit. And then I'm coming back around to my goal. I'm going, okay, I'm going to recommit to this. Okay, so what would you like to do? Well, I think I'll go back to Orange Theory.

Speaker A: Uh, even though it didn't work. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, let's, let's. This is interesting. Okay. It didn't work the first time, but you're going back to that. And A lot of people just keep repeating the same actions. And I like to challenge people to go, okay, hold on a second. What's something you've never done? Because we know if we continue to do the same things, we're going to get the same results and it generally doesn't work out. So I love the idea of in all areas, sales and life. What's the thing you haven't done? What's the thing you haven't tried? So what's, what's stopping you from that? Sometimes the biggest obstacles are the things that we're avoiding.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we really need to look at those and go, actually I am going to dig in on that. I'm going to try that. And sometimes that opens the biggest doors for us.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. And it's interesting because I, I. A lot of the work I do with sales teams at the starting point, foundations alongside planning is also mindset. And there are. When you understand how important mindset is in any discipline, in any field, personally and professionally, you kind of start to understand why sometimes we, we sabotage ourselves without realizing. And there's a few stats that I've, uh, that always fascinate me. One of the stats is that the mind's, the mind's job is to produce thoughts. And the evidence shows that those thoughts repeat as much as 90 every day. So we think the same thoughts over and over and over and over. 90 of thoughts are recurring thoughts. There's 10%. That's the kind of stuff that's a little bit creative and out there, but generally speaking it's 90. So when you see someone and when you're sitting down planning with your teams, the reason we, they seem to come up with these ideas is largely because of the, the patterns that uh, that we end up thinking in our brains. And it takes, uh, I always think the most effective way to disrupt that is an external perspective, like a coach, like a good manager, like someone who can ask you those questions that you won't automatically ask yourself.

Speaker B: Have you ever heard the saying, the fish is the last to see the water?

Speaker A: Ah, uh, go on.

Speaker B: So I read about this one time and it gave me that perspective of how a coach can see something that you can't see. And the idea was just picture a fishbowl. And it's day one, you've just brought the fish home. It's in the bowl, the water is crystal clear. The fish is swimming around. And then you keep that fish and you have to feed it and fish do what they do. And over time, if you're looking at that fishbowl, the water starts to look a little murky. You know, there's little bits of things after a few weeks, if you haven't changed the water floating around to the fish, it's just water. It's the same water as it was on day one. The fish is the last to notice the water, and often we are the fish. You know, we can't see that things are getting murky and dirty all around us. But a coach looks at it and goes, I can clearly see you got to change the water here.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's a nice analogy. Yeah, it's a really nice analogy. I'm not. I haven't heard that one. I haven't heard that one. That's good. That's really good. So. So you got people clear. What. What about, um, in terms of, you know, what you take people through then, Daniel. They're clear on their goals. They start to build momentum. What. What's the next. Where does it go from there?

Speaker B: One of the things for salespeople that I love to talk about is their HPAs.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So HPAs is your highest payoff activities.

Speaker A: Ah, nice.

Speaker B: So there's the saying, which I always butcher, but it's, we, uh, can do anything, but we can't do everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So in sales, what is it that actually moves the needle in your business? So when somebody did this exercise with me, it was really interesting because I thought back to when I sold photocopiers.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And in that business, which is business to business, it was all about making cold calls. That was the highest payoff activity, Justin. I had to be out knocking 40 doors a day.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Uh, so every 10 calls, you get one lead. Every four leads, you close one sale. So 40 doors a day, potentially give

Speaker A: you a sale a day. If you. If you do the forty calls, a hundred percent.

Speaker B: And you had to be out there prospecting every day. It was just kind of a numbers game. Um, and that was the key activity. Ah. When I got into higher ticket sales and big pieces of capital equipment, what I found is demos was what I had to do. Nobody was going to buy the product, Justin, without touching it first. It's $150,000 if they didn't take a test drive, if they didn't touch the system, they didn't work with it, do a course. They were not going to invest that much money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So the key. The highest payoff activity was how can I get more people into a demo?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And today, one of the key activities for me is proposals. It's asking people to buy, it's getting them to the point where they've got all the information they need to make a decision and then I can close from there. So first step is identifying for you your business, your sales territory. What, what are your HPAs? What's the thing that's going to move the needle the fastest, the thing you need to focus on. And then here was the key. The sales trainers that I worked with said, I want you to take three days, just live three normal days, don't manufacture anything, don't change anything and audit yourself. Uh, now nobody wants to audit themselves. Just a terrible word. But it was review what you were doing every day and the comparison between what I said my priorities were and what I actually did in those three days. My HPAs were a small amount. And what I realized is I was spending so much time in my inbox, just emails and all these activities that were non revenue generating.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That flipped a switch and I went, okay, if I don't put enough time into the key activities I'm not going to get the right result in. So I think that is a key for a lot of people is what moves m the needle. And how much time are you actually spending doing that activity day to day?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's, you know, when you explain it, it's so straightforward, it makes so much sense. But you're. I've had the same experience when you sit down and actually reflect on what have I spent my time doing today. And um, you realize that actually it's not those high payoff activities. I like, I like the HPA term. I've not heard, I've not called, I've not heard it called hpas. I really like that. I'm going to be, if you don't mind, Daniel, I'm going to be adopting that. But I really like it because it links, it links to a uh, similar principle which you'll know. The 8020 rule, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And really your HPAs are uh, the 20% of things that you do that drive the 80 of activity. And interestingly there's all that other stuff and we tend to find ourselves only doing 20 of the HPAs. And one of the things you can do to really move the needle is just go, right, I'm going to force myself to increase that time on those HPAs. And the disproportionate effect and impact that has is transformational for most people because it just, because it just turns a gear that, that just moves everything else

Speaker B: around with it 100% and 80, 20 is really valid. You know, I found that that is true for so many territories.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And there's so many things, Justin, that are vying for our attention these days, and there are so many distractions.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That most people will get caught in that trap.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's just being. Having a level of awareness to say, okay, hold on a second, I gotta pump the brakes, and where. What am I supposed to be doing right now? And, okay, I'm gonna set this aside. A little bit of discipline that that takes to say. I'm gonna. I'm gonna park that for a second and I'm gonna get back to the thing that I said I was going to do. Even though this is screaming very loudly at me, I'm going to be disciplined and focus on that. Finish that up. And then whatever time is left goes towards the things that are hollering loudly at us, which we've all got, Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I have been through this experience myself multiple times personally and as a manager and as a coach. And it's always refreshing to come back to, what are the things that actually make the biggest impact for you and are you prioritizing them? And it's interesting. The thing I learned years ago, I went on a. It was basically like a productivity and effectiveness workshop. A couple of days. I found it really useful, actually. And one of the things that, uh, they said to us was, whatever you're doing in the moment, you know, your business or in your work life, whatever you're doing in the moment, every time you start a task, you should just ask yourself, what is my number one priority right now? Okay, so you might have a to do list. If you work off a to do list, look at your to do list and go, right, what is the number one priority activity or action that I should be taking right now? And when you know what that is, ask yourself, what am I actually doing right now? If it isn't that number one thing? Park what you're doing and move to that number one thing until it's complete or you've made sufficient progress on it that you go, do you know what? That's sufficient for today, and I'll come back to it another time. Because sometimes these are big projects we're working. So you orientate yourself to that one number one thing, Right? Then you go, okay, what's next?

Speaker B: Then?

Speaker A: What's next is not the number two thing. Next. Next you go through your list and you go, now, what is number one? Oh, yes, we should always be working on the number one pro And I, when they talk about. But that makes so much sense. It should always be what's number one? Right. We should never go, will I go to two or three net? No, no, no, no. You reprioritize your list. You go what's now number one? Because sometimes when you're working on that number one thing, something cascades off it that becomes the next number one thing. So you should automatically go to number two. And it's a bit like what you're saying is it's understanding what are my high payoff activities. Prioritize those. Work on number one. Always be working on the number one thing. Now this is easier said than done because of all those other things that are part of our sales responsibility. And you look at the data, it says that most sales professionals spend somewhere between 25 and 35% of their time selling. The rest of the time is that non selling activities. And we have to. The only person who could change the dial on that is the individual. And that's about us understanding what are those? I love the HPA term. What are those HPAs. How do we keep creating more time for it?

Speaker B: That is golden. I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: The combination of those two things is really powerful, isn't it? Yes, really powerful. Really powerful. So, so what are the other things, Daniel, that you recognize are, uh, you know, key, key things that you share either with clients or you, or questions you ask clients or your teams. Teams with customers that, you know, make m move the needle. We've got, you know, setting really clear goals, getting committed to those goals, starting small, building momentum, high payoff activities. What else is on is in the, is in the formula.

Speaker B: So uh, one of the key things I think gets overlooked sometimes is belief.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I, you know, you mentioned mindset earlier.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I, I really believe mindset matters the most.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah. I, uh, think if we don't have the right starting place with ourselves, we're never going to get really to the end destination. Because I think our mind drives everything that we do, including the things we shouldn't do. You know, which is why we get off track a lot of the time is because our mindset really isn't strong. It's not in the right place. But I think with belief, you know, there's an old saying that when I first got into sales, it was the first sale you make is to yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, and there are so many times where um, you know, people I don't think have made that sale to themselves. Do they really believe in the product?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Do they really believe in themselves. And do they really believe in, um, you know, the company? So in terms of how you fare against the competition, what's your level of belief? What's your level of conviction? Because when you step in front of a customer, what are they trying to do? They're trying to decide if they believe in you, do they believe in your product, do they believe in your company? So if they believe in you, then they're going to have trust. If they believe in the product, they believe that it's the right fit and the right solution for their needs. And if they believe in the company, then they have a basis for a long term partnership which is then going to bring lots of business through the door. So I think belief is often overlooked. And what level are you carrying with you? And then how do your customers see you and do they believe that you are the best rep in your territory?

Speaker A: Yeah, but you've got to believe it first.

Speaker B: Right. 100% starts with you.

Speaker A: Yeah. Your customer cannot believe something about you that you don't really, uh, it's really, really useful that. And I, I recognize this in myself earlier in my career where I hadn't even recognized where mindset played a part and where my self belief played a part and I didn't have a manager that, that showed me this or helped me to understand it. And it leads, I think, for a lot of salespeople. And uh, I see a lot of this, I'm sure you do too, Daniel. Where they just feel as if they are perhaps not worthy of the success that they could achieve or they feel anxious or they feel stressed in certain situations or they feel like, you know, this, this term imposter syndrome is out there, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: Really common. People talk about imposter syndrome a lot and I think very often we can talk ourselves into those situations or into that mindset and we forget that it's possible to talk ourselves into a belief mindset and a growth mindset and an empowered mindset. But very often the default thinking tends to take us down a path that isn't empowering us or helping and supporting us.

Speaker B: And how many people have you worked with, Justin, that uh, will just drop price in order to win business? Yeah, and, and you see that a lot. And I think it's a direct result of people not believing that they bring enough value to the customer. So do you really believe that you bring added value to uh, the client? Do you really believe that you are an expert, that you are a professional, that you are the best in Class in your territory. If you don't believe that, you're going to say, well, I can be cheaper, I can be less expensive. And a lot of people default to that because they don't necessarily believe their product is better than other people's, that their company doesn't bring that added value or they just can't articulate it. They don't have the self confidence, they don't have the self belief in order to bring that to customers.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, yeah, yeah. And I think very often it brings us back to the previous analogy that you mentioned, Daniel, the fish in the water. Often people don't even see it in themselves. It takes an external perspective to help them almost wake up to the reality

Speaker B: and then the possibility 100%. I mean people don't want the cheapest product. And I've never worked for a company where I've ever sold the low cost, uh, option. So selling that value and selling all the intangibles, I think whether you need it all the time or not, it makes you a better salesperson. The more you go out and demonstrate that, the more you see yourself as part of the brand and the expertise that only you can bring. And I challenge people a lot to, uh, tell me what is different about you, what is different about your product, what are the unique things? And the most overlooked thing is that customers will tell us everything we need to know if we take the time to sit and be curious. One of the best things I did in selling high ticket items, uh, was sit down with each person who bought. We had to take them to a training. So it was, you know, a uh, good opportunity to just ask them, so why did you buy? And I was surprised, Justin, by what I heard from different doctors who bought this product. It wasn't any of the main things that I was told to sell as benefits. So I started to collect all of these reasons. People buy for their reasons, not for yours.

Speaker A: What were some of the things that surprised you most, Daniel, in that feedback?

Speaker B: So I had one person tell me that they spent a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, Justin, because they were bored.

Speaker A: Wow. They're just looking for something different.

Speaker B: I've been doing the same thing for 30 years. I could do it with my eyes closed. I walk in, I sit down, I do the same procedures. If I continue to do this for 15 or 20 years of my career, I'm gonna just be, you know, bored, numb. This was something that excited them. It was a different approach, it was a different way to look at their profession. They are professionals. It's what they do. It's their instruments. Right? It's. It's the thing that, uh, they use every day. And you spend more time at work sometimes than you do anywhere else. So having something that, you know, really got them excited. Uh, the product that I was selling was kind of like playing a video game at work. Okay. But other reasons was it. It just made them more advanced. It made them cutting edge. They wanted to have their patients see them as, you know, the person who's leading the race in terms of technology. It was how their patients perceived them. So there was a lot of reasons they bought that if I hadn't sat with them and understood what value means to them. People buy for their reasons, not for yours. You can have all the benefits you want to communicate in your head. They all sound great on the brochure, but you need to find what matters to that person. And being curious and interviewing your customers who already use the product. There are less people to tell you what's amazing about it. And sometimes you get surprised that it's not what you think it is. And now you've got some new ammunition to go back to other buyers and say, hey, any chance you're bored? Like, I had somebody mention to me that they were bored. I know it doesn't seem like, you know, the thing that you want to lead with, but if that is the connection to them, then there's one more thing that you've got in your tool belt in order to try to get somebody to where they ultimately want to go.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, it's really fascinating that, isn't it? That, and I love the. The principle that customers buy for their reasons, not yours. It's about what you need, not what you need. Because very often that is a surprise. It isn't what you're immediately thinking, and the only way to art to find that out. In fact, you're right. You find that out, you're more likely to get the truth after they've purchased than you are ahead of the purchase. So I love. I love that. It's a brilliant takeaway. Brilliant takeaway. Talking to takeaways. Daniel, when you, um, you thought about your younger self, what advice would you give young Daniel? Maybe, like, coming out of uni, early twenties? What would you. What would you advise him if you could go back and talk to him?

Speaker B: Wouldn't we do anything to rewind the clock? Yeah, I would say, you know, uh, uh, getting back to helping other people get what they want. I think that's a key lesson that I wish I had known Earlier. Yeah, because I really, in my early part of my career, it was about me. It was about that achievement and, you know, could I hit these numbers and could I get to the next level and. And climbing that corporate ladder too, without really understanding. The more you help people along the way, the more successful you'll be. But the biggest lesson I would give to my younger self was none of us do it alone.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So seeking out coaches, um, mentors, uh, even just great teammates, um, having people with us on this journey, somebody who's already walked the path that you're planning on walking, you know, if you can find that guide that has already been down the path, that's going to save you so much time wandering around trying to find your own way. But a lot of the times, this is what we all do. We think, you know what, I'm not going to stop and ask for directions. I'm just going to keep driving. I'll figure it out, you know, along the way.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But, uh, a great coach, a great mentor, somebody that, uh, you know, wants to be with you on that journey, can absolutely one, speed up the results, get you to a place that you really never thought that you would get to because you took somebody else's, uh, help.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting that. Because I have. I would have a similar conversation with young Justin as well, actually, because it's interesting. I think when we're younger, we perhaps don't appreciate that asking for advice and taking that advice on moves us forward much more quickly. Whereas I think there is a. I don't know, I can't describe it. It's like a resistance. It's almost, uh, you know, part of what I need to do is figure it out for myself, you know. But actually, to a certain degree that's true because even you talk to a coach or a mentor, they're going to help you to see things differently. You've still got to do the work right, but it's doing the work that puts. Sets you on the right course so that you get to the direction or the goal that you're looking to achieve more quickly. And. And in a way that means you don't take so many wrong turns or go down so many cul de sacs. And I think that that's a conversation, you know, I would have with young Justin just similar. But just make sure that I wasn't. Because I remember feeling early in my sales career and part of it was, um, anxiety. I was quite defensive around feedback. And if I'd been a bit more Receptive and open to it. I would have been able to make progress more quickly. But, you know, it is what it is. But I like, hopefully younger sales professionals and maybe sales managers listening to this. They're, uh, reflecting on that for themselves right now, thinking it's not, it's not too late for him to start to take that advice on in advance.

Speaker B: You know, I definitely thought I had all the answers at one point. And then. And then you realize, oh, once you hit the wall a couple times, really, I don't know a whole lot. And looking back, I, oh, I wish I had had somebody to step in and just say, yeah, stop running into that wall. Here's the path around it. Yeah, I would have been much better off.

Speaker A: Yeah, me too. Me too. You know, but hopefully sharing us, having this conversation helps some other people listening to, uh, just perhaps press the pause button themselves and start to think about mentoring, coaching, and getting some advice. Daniel, brilliant, brilliant, uh, conversation. So, final kind of question as we start to wrap up and close, because we are close to the hour, uh, our time. So what final question would be useful to ask before we close? What's the final question do you think would be useful?

Speaker B: So there's two questions that I love, which is what do you want? Um, but that's the first one. We already covered that. The second one is who do you want to be? So I had never asked myself that question until I got in front of a coach who challenged me on who is the person that you want to be? Not just what do you want? But how do you want other people to see you? How do you want, uh, yourself to see you? How would you describe yourself? What are your values? And I had never thought of that. But actually, when I, I, I, uh, sold everything that I owned and I moved to Australia. So I went from Canada to Australia, and this was a process where it was just a wild adventure. I had always wanted to see Australia, but when I was on the plane, Justin, I had this thought I was landing in Australia. Didn't know a single team member, didn't know anyone other than my sister lived in Australia. And I thought, I really have a clean page here. Yeah, I have a chance to reinvent myself. And it doesn't matter to this point what anyone has thought of me or what I think of myself. What do I want, uh, to be in this new chapter of my life. And I started to plot out the type of person that I wanted to be. And I think if you know that, then you can become it. Yeah, if, you know, we we don't find ourselves, we create ourselves. So if you are intentional about the person you want to be, it doesn't matter if you're there yet. We can start to put all the building blocks in place for you to become that better version of yourself. So what are the things that you value? You know, what's the type of person that you want to become? If you want to lose weight and you want to be more athletic? Well, what does an athletic person do? What are the things that are part of their day that are not a part of yours, and how do we start to implement those things? So not just what do you want, but who's the person that you want to become? If you picture your best version, what does that look like? And what does it look like in all the areas that matter to you? Whether it's your health and your fitness, it's your finance, it's the career. You. You've always wanted to be a CEO. You've always wanted to be the number one salesperson, whatever it is, friends and family, all the different areas. We talked about the wheel of life, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What do you want that to look like? And then how do we create that best version of you? It's not going to happen by accident. It happens by intention.

Speaker A: Yeah. No. And brings us right to the goals that you set and making them more personal and meaningful about not just what you're trying to achieve, but who you're trying to become. Yeah, I. It's. It's fascinating, that topic, and that could be a topic of a podcast on its own. Right. Um, and it's a question that if people haven't reflected on it, it's a question I've reflected on. Similar to you. I had a similar experience with a coach that asked me that question. Question it is. It's one of those questions that does stop you in your tracks the first time you ever hear it, because you. Most of us haven't thought about it. We are kind of on default, perhaps doing a bit of personal development, a bit of growth, but in a direction that perhaps isn't as focused and intentional as it can be when you really take some time to reflect on that question and answer it for yourself. And, uh, it reminds me, Daniel, I'm sure you've heard it, of course, the Matthew McConaughey University speech. And, uh, where he's talking about his hero. And he was asked early, uh, in his life, you know, who's your hero? And he said, let me go away and think about it. I'll come Back. And he says, I came back a week later and I said, I thought about it, and I know my hero is me 10 years from now, and it's really powerful as a sentiment. And he said, and then 10 years later, you know, this mentor comes back to me, says, oh, you hear? Are you your hero yet? And he says, not even close to I'm. Like you said, my hero is me 10 years from now, and it always will be because I'm continually improving and becoming the very best version of me, you know, And I think that as a, as a way to consider ourselves going through our careers, but our lives as well, we should always. I. I believe we should always be comfortable where we, we are, but aspiring to be as, uh, you know, the very best version of ourselves. I love your bvme. I think it's such a brilliant name for a coaching company. I really do. Best version of me. Love it, Love it.

Speaker B: It's all very intentional, too. I like to create because we have the ability to create. You know, if we're waiting for something to happen, that's not the best plan. But if we're creating the version of ourselves that we want, um, that's, you know, that's what we need to do. And it's. That's our best version. Yeah, it doesn't matter what somebody else is doing. You know, we, we tend to compare ourselves a lot. But what is your best version look like? And, and what's that next step? I. Yeah, I sold software for so long, and I love that word version.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because with software, there's always a new version. Right. Uh, your iPhone, there's always a new software updating. Yeah, they don't, they don't just say, well, we've created the best software there ever, and we're not touching this anymore. We're not adding any new features. And our lives are like that. You know, when we get to our 30s, when we get to our 40s, when we get to our 50s, we're. We're constantly on that version. 4.9, 5.0. Yeah, we're always updating. But if you're very intentional about making sure that, uh, it's not just change, it's improvements, it's updates, it's upgrades. Adding those upgrades to your life, we can do that. But we need to know, what do we want? Who do we want to be? What are the areas that we want to focus on and grow in our lives so that we're a better version than we were, you know, a few years ago? And a lot of People, Justin, I think they fall into the trap of my best years are behind me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I want to say, no, no, no. We're constantly improving. My best years are still ahead.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what a brilliant way to close. An absolutely brilliant way to close. It kind of brings us full circle as well. Daniel, thanks so much for sharing. Lastly, before we go, where can people find you? Where's the best place? Where do you. Where do you hang out? Kind of online and stuff.

Speaker B: So LinkedIn is really the best place to find me, Daniel Burns. But you can also go to BVME M coaching, and that BVME is best version of me.

Speaker A: Brilliant. I, uh, will put both of those links in the show notes so people don't have to scratch it down now. They can find them by going through the notes after the episode. Daniel, thanks so much for sharing so openly. Thanks for your energy. Thanks for sharing so many great insights with our listeners. I know it's going to be a really popular episode. So wishing you huge continued success in your career, both, you know, in the corporate world and, uh, as a. As a coach and a consultant to individuals and companies. Thanks so much for your time and, uh, I look forward to catching up with you again in the future.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me on and, uh, and keep inspiring. You're awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah, you too. Right back at you. Thanks, Daniel. Take care. I love that conversation with Daniel. I hope you did too. I love also the principle of best version of me. It really speaks to the work that we should all be doing on ourselves throughout our careers and I think right into, you know, later stages of our careers. I think about where I am right now. I'm probably, uh, I. I was listening to a podcast this morning. We're talking about, you know, if your life was a year, where are you in the year? And I'm gone. Blimey. If my life was a year, I'm kind of in August, probably, which is when my birthday is, coincidentally. But so then we start to think, well, what does the next chapter look like? And even as I go into thinking potentially, you know, where does the business go next? Perhaps even thinking of retirement at some point in the future, I'm thinking, how do I contribute towards society? I run a men's mental health group, which many of you may know. Uh, and I'm thinking, you know, how do I get more involved with that? How do we expand the impact and the positivity of that group as well, outside of work and all of the other things that are important in my life? So I love conversations like this because it gets us thinking bigger, gets us thinking differently. And I hope you had that same experience. So number of key takeaways there with Daniel, I love, but the overarching theme, how do you become the best version of you and what does that look like? Who do you want to become? And it definitely changes throughout our lives. But I'll leave you that with a final reflection. And you know, thanks to Daniel. Brilliant conversation. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Genuine thanks for listening to the Inspire Sales podcast. We hope you enjoy learning some of the most cutting edge sales techniques and and getting close to some of the greatest sales leaders in the world now and in the future. If you'd like to explore further, uh, please feel free to Visit our website, focusforgrowth.co.uk and if you'd like to take our Sales Acceleration Scorecard and discover your sales and influencing score, then check out the show notes for the link in the bio. If you have enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button. Um, if you know people, including your sales and leadership network that you think would like to listen to, then please share this episode with them. I'd be very grateful. If you'd like to get in touch with me, please feel free to do so. If you have suggestions for further guests or if you'd like to appear yourself, please contact me or my team. You can connect with me. I'd love to hear from you. My social profiles are in the show notes and I look forward to being with you on the next episode. Thanks again for listening. See you soon.