The Salesforce Job Market Reset - 2026

1 - > Josh Matthews: Hi, everybody. 2 - > Welcome to the hiring edge. 3 - > We have with us co-host Scott Stafford and our very special 4 - > guest, Sasha Semyonova. 5 - > Sasha, you guys know her.

6 - > You've read her writing, and you might not even have known it 7 - > because she is one of the foremost authors, tech 8 - > journalists for Salesforce Ben. 9 - > And today is her very first time on a podcast. 10 - > We're really excited to have you here today. 11 - > I don't think there's probably anyone in the audience who isn't 12 - > influenced in some way, shape, or form by the output that 13 - > occurs on the platform Salesforce Ben.

14 - > Ben McCarthy's done an amazing job growing from what was a 15 - > simple blog into the foremost authority on all things 16 - > Salesforce journalistically. 17 - > And you're a big part of that. 18 - > So today's episode is specifically to talk about what 19 - > the heck is going on in the job market. 20 - > Now we do this about once a quarter, don't we?

21 - > And sometimes there are changes and sometimes not a lot. 22 - > I don't know that we've had a massive amount of changes since 23 - > our last episode around January, uh, early February, around uh 24 - > that time. 25 - > But we also weren't in the middle of the hiring season 26 - > either, and that's what we're in right now. 27 - > So I think that there's a change.

28 - > I think that there's been AI acceleration, and we're gonna 29 - > talk about it right now. 30 - > So maybe you can, Sasha, for us, tell us what's it really 31 - > like to be a tech journalist focused on Salesforce? 32 - > Sasha Semjonova: Um, busy, definitely busy. 33 - > I feel like there is not a single quiet day.

34 - > Um, I've been doing this for just under four years. 35 - > And uh yeah, it just feels like almost every quarter, sometimes 36 - > every month, there's something kind of new that's happening 37 - > within the ecosystem, a trend that we're kind of picking up 38 - > on. 39 - > Um, and to be honest, over the last few years, reporting on the 40 - > job market has at times felt a little bit depressing just 41 - > because of where the Salesforce job market and the tech, you 42 - > know, the wider tech job market too has been and the changes 43 - > that it's been navigating, like um the fallout from COVID over 44 - > hiring, obviously the emergence of AI and layoffs and all kinds 45 - > of things like that.

46 - > But I would say in the last maybe six months, things have 47 - > seen a slight, ever so slight kind of turn up because we are 48 - > noticing that hiring across the board is up marginally in the 49 - > Salesforce ecosystem. 50 - > Again, nothing that anybody should be like, oh my gosh, you 51 - > know, let's change strategies completely. 52 - > But we are seeing that kind of uptick ever so slightly across 53 - > the board, which is after the news we've been seeing over the 54 - > last few years, very, very promising.

55 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah, right. 56 - > I mean, flat was the new up six months ago. 57 - > Yeah. 58 - > And just stopping the bleeding mattered.

59 - > And now I feel like we're in for, I don't even want to say 60 - > like a long, slow heel because it's still tech, which means 61 - > it's still volatile, you know, but it's certainly better than 62 - > before. 63 - > I think 10K advisors reported um early last, you know, late 64 - > summer, early autumn when they came out with their report, 65 - > about an 8% uptick in hiring, but that's against the backdrop 66 - > of about a 35% drop in hiring. 67 - > And so while we've made up a little bit of ground, you know, 68 - > we haven't made up all the ground.

69 - > And I don't think, and I'll I've said this in most episodes, 70 - > yeah, that heyday that we saw, that post-COVID boom, that's 71 - > unlikely to return, you know, at least for 15 years. 72 - > I kind of appreciate that. 73 - > I just think it's unlikely. 74 - > Scott Stafford: I kind of appreciate where we are, where 75 - > Salesforce is actually seeing what's happening.

76 - > And they recently uh dedicated to hiring some new call grads. 77 - > So that was kind of excited, a thousand new jobs. 78 - > So I think it's good that they're paying attention and and 79 - > at least, you know, doing what they can. 80 - > So it's good news, right?

81 - > I mean, we have a little uptick, things are looking 82 - > better. 83 - > Let's get this actually positive, you know, as as much 84 - > as we can for people. 85 - > Get that mindset, you know, there's opportunity out there. 86 - > Josh Matthews: Well, the and and there is.

87 - > So let's talk about that. 88 - > When you're what are you seeing from your position as far as 89 - > where is the actual opportunity? 90 - > Because it's not what it was 18 months ago, right? 91 - > And for those who are maybe just tuning in the first time, 92 - > or this is the first time that they're like, I really want to 93 - > learn more about what's happening in the ecosystem.

94 - > The quick math on what used to be is that um you could get a 95 - > certification, go get a job for 60, 65 grand in the US, um, be 96 - > making 100K within two or three years or more as an admin, jump 97 - > on trailheads, get more certs, get more money, and uh the world 98 - > was your oyster. 99 - > That changed. 100 - > It's not the case anymore. 101 - > So I'd like to hear from you, Sasha.

102 - > What is it that you're seeing specifically? 103 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, I think there's um, I think 104 - > professionals across the board need to be kind of very aware 105 - > that demand, you know, still uh is still quite different to the 106 - > supply. 107 - > The supply outweighs the demand quite a lot. 108 - > I think it's something like um uh 330% or something like that, 109 - > which is not a great number.

110 - > Um, but the main thing is that we're noticing is that 111 - > especially as hiring has begun to pick up, is the fact that 112 - > these kind of what I call specialized specialists are 113 - > needed more than ever. 114 - > So it's almost like saying goodbye to your traditional 115 - > admin, your traditional developer, maybe even your 116 - > traditional architect, because employers are looking for sales 117 - > for specialists who can wear as many hats as possible, who can 118 - > um take on, you know, architectural skills, business 119 - > analyst skills, AI skills, perhaps most importantly.

120 - > And they're the professionals that are being sought after. 121 - > I think, you know, we've been saying for a long time that the 122 - > market is different now and things are different. 123 - > They will not go back to the way they were before. 124 - > I think people are beginning to understand that.

125 - > I think what the understanding needs to be now is okay, how do 126 - > I change my skill set? 127 - > Change, you know, what I'm learning on, working on, so I 128 - > can almost seem more employable because unfortunately it is an 129 - > employer's market at the moment. 130 - > It is not an employees' market. 131 - > And I think focusing on those skills that are going to really 132 - > make you stand out, because standing out is harder than it's 133 - > ever been before, is gonna be the most important thing for 134 - > sure.

135 - > Josh Matthews: That makes an awful lot of sense. 136 - > And you're you're not wrong. 137 - > I mean, the the idea of standing out, and we've talked 138 - > about this before, I keep saying that, but when you can go pay 139 - > 500 bucks to get your resume pounded to 500 different job 140 - > posts every single day of the week for like three months, uh, 141 - > people are doing it, and you fire off your AI resume using AI 142 - > to a bunch of jobs, and guess what? 143 - > It works for a small handful of people, right up until they 144 - > talk to you and get to know you and realize you're not even 145 - > close to a freaking fit, right?

146 - > There's still a human element in here. 147 - > So there's there's upskilling so that you're relevant, and 148 - > then there's conveying and being able to communicate that you 149 - > have the qualities that they're looking for. 150 - > And what is the experience like for candidates today that's 151 - > different than maybe it was six months ago or nine months ago or 152 - > even 12 months ago? 153 - > Do you have a sense of that through your work?

154 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, I would say so. 155 - > And that's a really interesting question. 156 - > I think the job market at the moment is perhaps not the 157 - > hardest it's ever been, but applicants have the most kind of 158 - > components and situations that they have to face in order to 159 - > get a job and to remain successful in their market. 160 - > They're up against, you know, ghost jobs, they're up against 161 - > uh layoffs, they're up against um saturation in the market.

162 - > That's not just Salesforce, that's across tech. 163 - > They're up against, okay, um, you know, I've implemented this 164 - > AI agent that can do the job instead of this person I was 165 - > gonna hire. 166 - > That situation isn't too common at the moment, sure, but it is 167 - > going to become more common, especially as companies become 168 - > more conscious of the, you know, their budgets, what they're 169 - > spending it on. 170 - > They're gonna be considering, okay, do I spend that on AI 171 - > innovation or do I spend that on growing my team?

172 - > And we've already seen a select few companies make a certain 173 - > decision, whether you think that's the right one or not, is 174 - > gonna be, you know, up to you. 175 - > But we've kind of seen these, you know, conversations and 176 - > situations kind of already begin to play out. 177 - > So yeah, it's not necessarily harder, but applicants do have 178 - > to think about a lot more when they try and apply for a job at 179 - > the moment. 180 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah.

181 - > It's, I mean, it used to just be, oh, you're a tech architect. 182 - > That's fine. 183 - > You have your pick, here's five offers. 184 - > And I remember those days and they were good.

185 - > I made a lot of money. 186 - > You know, it was really good. 187 - > But now it's it's substantially different, um, to your point. 188 - > Scott Stafford: Yeah, a lot more tools, I would say.

189 - > It it's it's knowing more platforms, more tools. 190 - > And it's maybe not as deep in each one because that's really 191 - > not possible because things are changing so quick. 192 - > So you got to be able to digest quicker the different 193 - > applications that do different things coming out, and then 194 - > really be able to lead people. 195 - > You're seeing.

196 - > Josh Matthews: So are you talking, Scott, about like like 197 - > cloud, like being able to translate, like, hey, I don't 198 - > know NPC, but I know FinServe, and I know, you know, marketing 199 - > cloud, and I know, you know, service cloud. 200 - > And how can I translate that to NPC? 201 - > Is that what you mean? 202 - > Scott Stafford: I think that you also want to know where things 203 - > are going, but understand what NVIDIA is offering, understand, 204 - > you know, where this whole thing is going.

205 - > I I often tell people, hey, the robots are coming out. 206 - > It's gonna be here in two years. 207 - > We're basically doing that right now. 208 - > We're we're building agentic solutions that within two or 209 - > three years will actually be in the robots.

210 - > And it's a great opportunity. 211 - > So try and figure out where which each um ecosystem is gonna 212 - > be doing. 213 - > And Salesforce, you know, they've gone headless. 214 - > They want us to, you know, kind of change a little bit more to 215 - > get out of the CRM and understand all the different 216 - > places that we can deploy our solutions.

217 - > So just kind of keep in your head understanding what 218 - > everything is, you know, where everything is going, the 219 - > different ecosystems, and then where you can fit in and shine. 220 - > Josh Matthews: That makes sense. 221 - > I'm kind of curious, Sasha, for you, like if you if you could 222 - > just say one thing to the folks who are listening, who are, you 223 - > know, they've heard stories for the last three years, like, oh, 224 - > Salesforce, oh yeah, you know, it's gonna be awesome.

225 - > If they came to you and said, hey, I'm like a quarter through 226 - > my admin cert and I'm really excited, what would you say to 227 - > those? 228 - > You take a 24-year-old person, right? 229 - > They're all excited, they're doing this thing, they feel good 230 - > because they're on a path. 231 - > You don't have to be on the right path to feel good about a 232 - > path, by the way, guys, right?

233 - > Like you can, and as my dad always said, no matter how far 234 - > down the wrong road, you've gone turned back. 235 - > And it's an old Turkish saying, right? 236 - > But like, what would you say to the 24-year-old who's like, 237 - > yeah, I'm doing trailhead, love the community, yeah, I went to a 238 - > dreaming event. 239 - > Like, what are their chances really?

240 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, firstly, I think I would make sure that I 241 - > didn't dampen their enthusiasm too much because at the end of 242 - > the day, it's still, you know, incredibly rewarding to be 243 - > involved in the community, to be involved in Salesforce as an 244 - > ecosystem, the wider community. 245 - > All of that is still so important. 246 - > And the community keeps telling me this as well. 247 - > I'm sure uh Scott advocates for that as well.

248 - > But um, I think when it comes to the job market, I think I 249 - > would just be like, okay, you know, please have this 250 - > enthusiasm. 251 - > It's gonna get you far, but also be realistic. 252 - > Like listen to what your network, the community is 253 - > saying, listen to what they're finding is going great, listen 254 - > to what they're struggling with, you know, go on community 255 - > forums, go to these events like you've been going to, but ask 256 - > questions like, okay, you know, how did you experience this?

257 - > How long did it take you to find your job? 258 - > You know, where are you seeing people hiring at the moment? 259 - > I think the the clearer of a picture that this person or 260 - > anyone listening can kind of develop of what the market looks 261 - > like right now, the better chance they have of succeeding 262 - > because the chance of, you know, the opportunity for success is 263 - > going to look different for everybody. 264 - > You know, we can't just go, okay, go into this field and 265 - > you'll get a job tomorrow, or get into this field and you'll 266 - > be great.

267 - > No, it's more of a case of okay, what's the market doing 268 - > and where is my place in it and how can I get into it? 269 - > Josh Matthews: I love that. 270 - > Yeah. 271 - > I kind of like it.

272 - > I don't love it. 273 - > And I'll tell you why. 274 - > That's I think it's a great perspective because I'm all for 275 - > dampening people's spirit if it's gonna save their life. 276 - > Yeah.

277 - > And but you're you're right. 278 - > I mean, it's like if they're like someone's gonna make it in 279 - > Hollywood, you know what I mean? 280 - > It's like, yeah, go to LA, like take your acting classes, like 281 - > you got in a commercial, great, keep going, you know, like maybe 282 - > you'll be the next Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks or or you know, 283 - > whoever, um, Meryl Streep, go for it. 284 - > Um, and you never want to kill that, but there's this massive 285 - > thing, and it's a problem.

286 - > And it's that 22 to 26 year olds aren't getting jobs in 287 - > entry-level positions in tech easily. 288 - > It's about nearly 10% harder this year than it was last year, 289 - > and last year wasn't great. 290 - > And so what can they for those folks? 291 - > They have to do something different because if you've got 292 - > a three-year admin with five certs who's good, who has 293 - > references, who can't land a job, and it's not just because 294 - > they want you know 90 grand, it's because there's not a job 295 - > for them because the agents are taking over.

296 - > I had an admin and I fired him because I can go in and run my 297 - > stuff through agents now. 298 - > I can create a pick list, do this, find this, get me 500 299 - > customers that I need for that, create a marketing campaign, 300 - > blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 301 - > I don't need them. 302 - > I just don't need them.

303 - > But if you can find someone who can like go in there, knows the 304 - > stuff so that they don't ruin it, but then can run the agents 305 - > to do it. 306 - > I mean, do you feel like there's enough being said, 307 - > whether it's on Salesforce ban or in your own journalism, 308 - > that's sort of like not trying to poo-poo the whole ecosystem 309 - > because it's a great ecosystem, it's continuing to grow. 310 - > You know, when we talk about feeling like things are sliding 311 - > backwards, we're talking about reduced growth.

312 - > We're not talking about massive losses, right? 313 - > We're just talking about reduced growth. 314 - > Like, what's something that you would say to that same person? 315 - > I'm I'm more curious about like what's your softer, gentler way 316 - > than sounding like me.

317 - > Like, what are you doing? 318 - > You know, don't do it. 319 - > I guess the reason why I want to hear from Sasha real quick on 320 - > this. 321 - > Sure, go ahead.

322 - > Yeah, yeah like if you were gonna communicate, like, does 323 - > any of that ring true for you? 324 - > That's the first thing I want to know. 325 - > And two, how would you communicate that differently 326 - > than me? 327 - > Like, what are you doing?

328 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, um, I'd say yes and no. 329 - > And I think this is why, you know, a big part of what I 330 - > advocate for is be realistic about the market. 331 - > I if you go back and read many of my articles talking about the 332 - > job market, we and you know, myself, my fellow journalists 333 - > have said, okay, maybe you should consider a career outside 334 - > of Salesforce. 335 - > We're not afraid of saying this, of course.

336 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah. 337 - > Sasha Semjonova: You know, the way that's just the way the 338 - > market is. 339 - > You might have a higher chance of success in a adjacent 340 - > software. 341 - > Like there's no denying that.

342 - > But also in the same breath, over the last six months, I've 343 - > spent more time speaking to young talent in the ecosystem 344 - > who ended up getting jobs. 345 - > And I'm talking to, you know, uh ones that have come out of 346 - > different career programs. 347 - > And they said, Oh, I was so scared of what everybody was 348 - > saying, and then I ended up with a job. 349 - > And again, I think that's where the realism comes into it 350 - > because it's a case of you're gonna have people that are still 351 - > getting jobs.

352 - > These jobs are getting filled. 353 - > So Salesforce is hiring, it's hiring for a number of different 354 - > positions. 355 - > Partners are hiring for a number of different positions, 356 - > doesn't mean you'll get one, but I don't necessarily think that 357 - > Salesforce, compared to perhaps any other adjacent company, is 358 - > more or less difficult to get into right now. 359 - > I think they're all on the same playing field almost.

360 - > Josh Matthews: You're saying the company or the ecosystem? 361 - > Sasha Semjonova: I'd say both. 362 - > unknown: Okay. 363 - > Sasha Semjonova: I'd say both.

364 - > Yeah. 365 - > I think yeah, the advice I give is if you are really 366 - > determined, you really, really want to be in this, you know, 367 - > ecosystem, you want to be with Salesforce for whatever reason 368 - > you have, go for it. 369 - > Just be realistic about what you need to do to get there. 370 - > Understand it will not be easy.

371 - > It's not gonna be easy anymore. 372 - > Those days are over, but you can still do it. 373 - > And I think that's what needs to be said as well. 374 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah, I think that's a that's well put.

375 - > And Scott, you were gonna jump in there. 376 - > Go for it, man. 377 - > Scott Stafford: I think the reason why I loved it is what I 378 - > heard from her is get out there and actually hear. 379 - > Go to the events.

380 - > What is really magical about our ecosystem is there's a lot 381 - > of dreaming events. 382 - > Not all of the ones have so many opportunities where you can 383 - > go there and and find your niche. 384 - > Talk to some people, say, hey, what's working? 385 - > Not necessarily there, you're gonna end up in Salesforce.

386 - > They might say, Hey, you're really good at this. 387 - > Hey, go and I have a job kind of um Salesforce adjacent with 388 - > Snowflake or something like that. 389 - > We just heard that Snowflake was killing it with their 390 - > earnings, a lot of opportunity there. 391 - > So it is a really great opportunity to go to cheap 392 - > conferences.

393 - > I go to quite a few conferences and uh some of the bigger 394 - > companies cost two grand. 395 - > So being able to go and get a perspective from people is is 396 - > pretty cool. 397 - > And our ecosystem does have a lot of people that lean in. 398 - > They lean in and they give you the perspective, right?

399 - > Um, whether it's good or bad, they, you know, they kind of 400 - > tell you, you know, the truth of the matter, right? 401 - > Where it is. 402 - > And it kind of like this podcast. 403 - > So there's a lot of opportunity here, and and there's still 404 - > those that really want to get involved and put themselves out 405 - > there can get a job in this ecosystem.

406 - > Sasha Semjonova: And just to quickly kind of add on to that, 407 - > if cost is a barrier, consider going to the user groups as 408 - > well. 409 - > I'm a regular attender of the Bristol Admin User Group. 410 - > Um, it's just a really, really good space to be able to kind of 411 - > connect with the community and talk very candidly about 412 - > experiences and stuff like that. 413 - > If you're gonna learn anything anywhere about the ecosystem, 414 - > it's within those spaces.

415 - > Josh Matthews: That's great. 416 - > Really good recommendations from both of you. 417 - > Appreciate you both sharing those perspectives. 418 - > Because I can get a little hot, as you can tell.

419 - > I'm like, ah, but you know, that age group, that's the age 420 - > of my kids, you know. 421 - > And if my kid was like, I'm gonna be an admin, I'm like, I 422 - > don't know, dude. 423 - > No. 424 - > I'd probably be like, you can do whatever you want, and and 425 - > I'm always supportive of them.

426 - > But if you're not, if you're not physically required to be 427 - > there, right? 428 - > A career, one's going into you know anesthesiology uh 429 - > assistance, that type of thing, or physical therapy, that kind 430 - > of thing. 431 - > Oh, you need a person, uh, like a human there. 432 - > The other one uh is is uh making clay, you know, doing 433 - > clay, and another one's a gonna be pilot.

434 - > Like they're they're all doing these things where you 435 - > physically have to be there, which is a safe play for 15 436 - > years down the road. 437 - > So when they're 35, 38 years old, it's a good long play. 438 - > But if you're not gonna do that, that's okay. 439 - > But wrapping your arms around an admin cert before wrapping 440 - > your arms around Claude, you know, like serious stuff.

441 - > I don't mean like, you know, what's the best movie I should 442 - > go to? 443 - > Like, I'm not talking treating it like Google. 444 - > I'm I'm seeing like really heavy stuff, like investing in 445 - > it and getting amazing at it and learning how to build agents 446 - > outside of Agent Force. 447 - > Right, you know.

448 - > I mean, I've got I've got agent, I've got Agent Force, but 449 - > it's not working great, honestly. 450 - > Like, like, like the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me 451 - > right now on it, you know, and we're seeing that a lot. 452 - > That's not a new story. 453 - > Yeah, I'm just one person out of thousands, right?

454 - > But juice isn't worth the squeeze for me. 455 - > So, but I can do that stuff on my own. 456 - > I can just go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah perplexity and build 457 - > this, go make that agent. 458 - > And I can do that stuff very quickly and get the same juice 459 - > for a lot less squeeze.

460 - > And so anyone who's going out there, I would just say augment 461 - > it, right? 462 - > If you're gonna go out there, you're gonna, you're if you're 463 - > job hunting right now and you're not spending 10, 15, and you're 464 - > it's been six weeks since you've had a great interview and 465 - > you're spending all your time on trying to get this next cert, 466 - > thinking that's gonna get you past your next interview, you've 467 - > got a uh you've got some uh uh challenges with your 468 - > prioritization.

469 - > Because I'm assuming that Sasha, these these young folks 470 - > that that are coming up to you and saying, like, hey, I did it 471 - > and I like cranked and I got that job, weren't they nice? 472 - > Weren't they engaging people? 473 - > Weren't they friendly? 474 - > I mean, they came up to you.

475 - > That's a quality already. 476 - > Now you've got another, you know, 40 to 60 percent of people 477 - > who would never do that in their life. 478 - > They would never come up to you or me or Scott or anybody else. 479 - > And so we're talking about the people who are actually getting 480 - > these jobs are born with certain qualities and then work hard to 481 - > improve it.

482 - > They're not born with those qualities, they have to work 483 - > really hard to overcome it. 484 - > And it often means that they're actually not in the stream of 485 - > work that they probably should do where they're going to feel 486 - > comfortable, where they're going to feel natural. 487 - > I'm not talking about like overcoming fears because that's 488 - > something different than how you're wired to process 489 - > information in your brain or how you're wired socially.

490 - > Do you see what I mean? 491 - > And so if you're not a particularly social person, uh, 492 - > you know, work in the room at a conference is gonna be hard. 493 - > Doesn't mean you can't do it. 494 - > Vanessa and I have lots of episodes all about that from old 495 - > podcasts.

496 - > But just I really think that if people paused, take some of 497 - > these profile uh tests, you know, whether it's old school 498 - > MBTI test or disk or or um, I mean, God, there's like a 499 - > hundred of them, right? 500 - > Take three or four or five, feed all that into some AI. 501 - > Talk to the AI that you're already working with that knows 502 - > you really well, and say, I know you know a lot about me, but 503 - > what don't you know about me that would help build a better 504 - > profile or understanding of me?

505 - > This isn't giving away the store, guys. 506 - > This is getting better output, getting better results. 507 - > And just like, here's my MBTI, here's my disk, here's my this, 508 - > here's my that, you know me. 509 - > What else do you need to know?

510 - > Answer all those questions and be like, on a scale of 10, 511 - > five's average. 512 - > How great is entering into a Salesforce admin role and 513 - > putting all my eggs into that basket right now? 514 - > Doesn't mean it's accurate, but to your point, Sasha, it's more 515 - > information. 516 - > Sasha Semjonova: Absolutely.

517 - > Josh Matthews: So let's stay. 518 - > Okay, I'm done ranting. 519 - > That's my little rant. 520 - > Um I'm I'm kind of interested in um people having a good 521 - > understanding of what they're seeing in the market.

522 - > And I saw a post from um Jordan Nelson. 523 - > If you don't know Jordan Nelson right now, like I'd be shocked. 524 - > He's got 100,000 followers on LinkedIn. 525 - > He's a heck of a nice guy.

526 - > And he had a he had a neat post. 527 - > It was so simple. 528 - > He's so good at LinkedIn, man. 529 - > This guy's LinkedIn game is like as good as it comes.

530 - > He's really fantastic. 531 - > And he had a post of Shaquille O'Neal with um, oh God, I uh 532 - > Simone Biles. 533 - > Okay. 534 - > So one of the tallest athletes in the world and and possibly 535 - > the shortest athlete in the world, right?

536 - > Both uh, both gold standards in their work. 537 - > And she's this tiny little thing, and he's this huge thing. 538 - > And Jordan said, um, uh, where did it go? 539 - > I've got it in here somewhere.

540 - > Yeah, he said, I mean, am I the only one who sees this? 541 - > And it had Shaq as Salesforce job description and the salary, 542 - > Simone Biles, right? 543 - > And a lot of people commented on this. 544 - > I think there's like 400 likes.

545 - > That's pretty big for LinkedIn, right? 546 - > So it really caught fire, and I just thought, yeah, that, but 547 - > that's when has that not been the case? 548 - > Like, that's not new. 549 - > And there's this kind of hidden current of hiring.

550 - > So you're only seeing the jobs that are not getting filled, 551 - > right? 552 - > Yeah. 553 - > So there's a real skew of like, yeah, it's shocking that you 554 - > keep seeing these jobs where they want the world and only 555 - > want to pay a bag of peanuts and they're not getting filled. 556 - > You're in journalism, you're talking to these people.

557 - > How much is it the case that people are just not seeing all 558 - > the information? 559 - > Sasha Semjonova: Hmm. 560 - > Josh Matthews: Good point. 561 - > Sasha Semjonova: I think that's a massive part of the market.

562 - > I think, yeah, the jobs uh we like to kind of pull out 563 - > sometimes and be like, okay, it's asking this, this, and 564 - > this. 565 - > You've got to have this many years of experience. 566 - > They sometimes ask for certs, not always, but they often 567 - > include quite a big amount if they're looking for a certain 568 - > amount of certs. 569 - > And then you're looking at the salary.

570 - > And I'm obviously not based in the US, but I see the salaries 571 - > and I'm like, okay, I know that's not a good salary. 572 - > I know what a good looks like, and that isn't one. 573 - > Um, but then again, kind of in the same breath, there are 574 - > evidently people employed within the Salesforce ecosystem that 575 - > are happy where they are. 576 - > You just don't necessarily see them talk about it.

577 - > But I think it is important, you know, that time is spent 578 - > looking at those jobs that, you know, the salaries are 579 - > definitely not what they used to be because that is a massive 580 - > thing that puts people off entering the market, staying in 581 - > the market. 582 - > We're seeing satisfaction across the ecosystem lower. 583 - > Um, what when it comes to being in the community, when it comes 584 - > to the work they do, the compensation they get for their 585 - > work.

586 - > We do a salary survey every year and we uh kind of dissect 587 - > those results and kind of see how the community is feeling 588 - > about their roles and how they're compensated. 589 - > And yeah, it's not a pretty lineup, unfortunately. 590 - > But as you said, it's not new. 591 - > I think it's something that we should keep on looking at 592 - > because I don't personally think it's gonna change anytime soon.

593 - > And I think that anybody entering or deciding whether 594 - > they want to stay in the ecosystem should be very kind of 595 - > aware of that discrepancy between the two. 596 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah, good points, Sasha. 597 - > And I'll say this it's just a message to the um head 598 - > headhunters, talent acquisition teams, hiring managers, they're 599 - > the ones, someone's responsible for this output, right? 600 - > Someone wrote that job description.

601 - > A lot of times, AI wrote it for them. 602 - > And they suck at prompting. 603 - > And so it came out with a super unrealistic thing. 604 - > All right.

605 - > So don't do that, right? 606 - > Do research. 607 - > If you're gonna write a job description from scratch and 608 - > you've never written really good job descriptions that know how 609 - > to attract the right kind of candidates for you, just pause, 610 - > do a little research, get good at it. 611 - > You can get better at it in about an hour.

612 - > Like it doesn't take much. 613 - > You can write a really good prompt in about 15 minutes of 614 - > concerted, thoughtful, you know, programmatic thinking, right? 615 - > About what the output is. 616 - > And you don't have to just copy and paste and post, right?

617 - > I think the biggest fault that that I see, by the way, these 618 - > aren't companies that have never hired Salesforce people before. 619 - > These are companies that are usually replacing someone they 620 - > lost. 621 - > And when we we talk about this, like you go into an 622 - > organization, and if you're there five years and you're 623 - > showing incremental, increased capabilities, responsibility, 624 - > you know, um, you're adapting. 625 - > Well, every time you're taking on something new, getting better 626 - > at something, you're just kind of screwing that unicorn horn 627 - > onto your forehead a little bit harder and a little bit tighter.

628 - > And then when you're like, F this, J Matt out, bye-bye, bye, 629 - > Felicia. 630 - > I'm taking off, and you're gone. 631 - > And you leave these people in a larch and they're like gasping 632 - > for air because you took the wind out of them, you kicked 633 - > them in the solar plexus, and now they need to replace all of 634 - > you. 635 - > And it's gonna take two people.

636 - > It's gonna take two people. 637 - > I was talking to a colleague of mine just yesterday, and he was 638 - > describing the job description, and it's no different than what 639 - > Jordan was highlighting. 640 - > I mean, that's a real thing, you know. 641 - > People are out there, and you know, I think it was Felicia who 642 - > told told me once.

643 - > Um, she's like, that's not a job, that's a team. 644 - > Right? 645 - > Like, that's a team. 646 - > So you want to hire a team, right?

647 - > And if these hiring managers, this little bit's for them, if 648 - > they can be thinking about like, okay, what's the core that if 649 - > someone came in for three months, crushed it, put 650 - > everything together, who would you need then after that three 651 - > months? 652 - > Right. 653 - > Because you can get a couple contractors in who kick ass who 654 - > don't want to work for you. 655 - > You can't afford them.

656 - > It's not a fit, but they'll come in and set you up right, 657 - > right? 658 - > And then get the real person in, not the real person, but get 659 - > the person, the stable person in to just hunker down and knock 660 - > out the work with a little architect check-in, you know, 661 - > uh, for one day every quarter, something like that, or every 662 - > month. 663 - > So I think that's a way around it. 664 - > Um, what's your advice, Scott and Sasha, for folks who are 665 - > seeing these unicorn postings and then not applying, even 666 - > though maybe they should.

667 - > What would you say to them? 668 - > Scott Stafford: Yeah, I'll I'll take that first. 669 - > I think there's a lot of um job postings that are, you know, 670 - > that they're overstated what they're really looking for. 671 - > And I definitely would, you know, apply, but then also make 672 - > sure you reach out as a human, right?

673 - > DM, get in there, find every way you can to connect with 674 - > somebody at the company so that you shine. 675 - > And then also just talking about the skill set. 676 - > I have 27 certifications. 677 - > I wish if I had to do it over again that I would have had a 678 - > little bit more diversification.

679 - > I wish I had an NVIDIA certification and I'm working on 680 - > it now, and then also an AWS, just giving me a little bit more 681 - > of a, you know, a broad profile for people, you know, and it 682 - > also would help me just to understand, you know, all the 683 - > different ecosystems, how it fits together. 684 - > But definitely, I I've never been someone that looks at 685 - > someone's, you know, a uh job description and say, hey, that's 686 - > not for me. 687 - > I usually think, uh, it's always overexaggerated.

688 - > And especially when I write one, I'm like, look at this job 689 - > description, right? 690 - > There's nobody that could actually fill this, right? 691 - > So they're always, you know, stating their dream list. 692 - > And if you get in there and show them that you really want 693 - > it, right, and and that you can adapt and do the job, and you're 694 - > a real human, and and that really makes a big difference, I 695 - > think, right now, that you're a human, you want it, and you can 696 - > offer those soft skills in complementing what they're also 697 - > looking for in the job description.

698 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah, good points. 699 - > Sasha? 700 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, no, I would say I definitely agree 701 - > with that. 702 - > Um, a lot of the responses that come from job advocates now, a 703 - > lot of them are going to be bots or AI in some form.

704 - > So if you can stand out as a human, you're already being that 705 - > percentage of people that have applied. 706 - > But also kind of as a young person in the kind of tech 707 - > market, I think my kind of thing I like to say to people is, you 708 - > know, I'm sorry, I know it sucks, but it's what you kind of 709 - > have to do. 710 - > If you don't do that, you know, your chances of getting a job 711 - > is just so much lower. 712 - > I think it it was even a few years ago, it was very 713 - > different.

714 - > It was if you had all the necessary parts of a job 715 - > description, you could go ahead and apply. 716 - > Even if you didn't have some of them, if you were like, okay, 717 - > you could just lay out your resume well enough or you wrote 718 - > a good cover letter, that would be enough. 719 - > I think you definitely need to do a lot more now. 720 - > And I think I understand that frustration.

721 - > I understand it's tricky when the, you know, the economy is in 722 - > the shape that it is, when jobs are harder than ever to find. 723 - > But it's a case of going back to what we were talking about 724 - > earlier, the how do I stand out? 725 - > And as Scott said, the kind of reaching out is a really, really 726 - > good way to do that. 727 - > Don't feel afraid of these job listings.

728 - > Um, you won't know if you don't apply. 729 - > If you really look at it and I'm like, no, okay, this is not 730 - > me at all. 731 - > I don't match any of the criteria. 732 - > Don't waste your own time.

733 - > Like, just there's there's no need to do that. 734 - > But if you're looking at it and you go, okay, maybe this could 735 - > be me, just give it a go. 736 - > Give it a go. 737 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah, just give it a go.

738 - > Just give it a go. 739 - > And and real I think it's really good for people to focus, 740 - > you know, when there's look, there's thousands of jobs out 741 - > there. 742 - > I don't know what there are, 30,000, 40,000 job postings 743 - > right now. 744 - > Okay, cut those in half because a bunch of them are just gonna 745 - > be agency stuff.

746 - > Cut those in half because a lot of them are doubled up. 747 - > You've got five agencies all working on the same job. 748 - > Okay. 749 - > You there's still thousands of jobs that, and at least hundreds 750 - > that you'd be qualified for for most people who've spent at 751 - > least 12 to 24 months in the ecosystem out there.

752 - > The question is, how are you gonna stand out? 753 - > So do that. 754 - > There are other episodes that talk all about that. 755 - > So go check that out.

756 - > You can check out the Josh Force YouTube channel. 757 - > You can check out tons of stuff on Salesforce Ben. 758 - > Um, there's so much information about how to improve your 759 - > chances in the job market. 760 - > But what we're trying to stick with today is just improving 761 - > your understanding of what's going on in the job market.

762 - > And and let's keep it real for a minute. 763 - > Okay, so unemployment right now is hovering around 4.3, 4.3, 764 - > something like that in the United States.

765 - > That's not bad, guys. 766 - > Like that's not terrible. 767 - > 4.0 is kind of a nice balanced average mix.

768 - > So it's not really horrible, but there's another um there's 769 - > another uh metric that's used. 770 - > I think they call it U6 or U3, something like that. 771 - > I'm I'm moderately unfamiliar with it. 772 - > But when you look at the weather, so if I looked at the 773 - > weather here in Jupiter, Florida, and it might say 85 774 - > degrees feels like 98.

775 - > Okay. 776 - > So the feels like 98. 777 - > That's like your wind chill factor, that's like your 778 - > mugginess factor for like what does it actually feel like? 779 - > And it feels like it's eight or nine percent unemployment.

780 - > That's what it feels like. 781 - > Okay, it's not, but that's what it feels like. 782 - > And we actually are closer to that eight, nine percent in 783 - > technology because two factors. 784 - > One, people working part-time, so they're employed, but they're 785 - > not getting paid what they need.

786 - > They can't support themselves, they can't support their family. 787 - > Okay. 788 - > The other, the other factor is people who just stopped, they 789 - > gave up, they moved back home, they're playing video games, 790 - > they're not working, they quit without even bothering. 791 - > Okay.

792 - > So when you take that into consideration, now you're 793 - > looking at eight, eight and a half percent of of people, and 794 - > that skewed that is a little bit higher than what feels healthy, 795 - > right? 796 - > So the trick is when these folks don't uh aren't working or 797 - > they've quit working, a lot of them didn't quit being on 798 - > socials, and socials love negative, they love it, they 799 - > love it. 800 - > I mean, it's just I'm just I I've said this a couple months 801 - > ago.

802 - > Don't get sucked into it, guys. 803 - > Don't get sucked into the negativity. 804 - > Oh, corporate this, corporate that. 805 - > I'm gonna tell you a story, quick story.

806 - > I interviewed a woman, neat lady, experienced, skilled, 807 - > decent work history, not a lot of flip-flopping, right? 808 - > Um, but she said something really interesting. 809 - > And I had to ask her to go a little bit more deeper. 810 - > And what she said is, you know, I want to work somewhere where 811 - > I can be my authentic self.

812 - > Like, what the fuck is that? 813 - > Okay, like I don't know what that is. 814 - > Like you're authentic or you're not. 815 - > You're showing up as you or you're not.

816 - > You know what I mean? 817 - > Like, I I'm different talking to a client than I am on this 818 - > show. 819 - > I'm different when I talk to Casey, I'm different when I talk 820 - > to one of the kids, you know, or the checkout person at the 821 - > store, right? 822 - > Am I being inauthentic?

823 - > So I didn't really understand it. 824 - > So I I needed to push. 825 - > And it what what it turned out is it sounds like she's quite 826 - > creative and very community organized, uh uh and interested 827 - > in the community and all that stuff's great. 828 - > But she also was communicating some information, like it 829 - > sounded like it almost sounded like toxic work environments 830 - > were sort of very common, very normal, and you need to be like 831 - > guards up to protect yourself against that.

832 - > Okay. 833 - > And then I asked, I said, Well, has it happened to you? 834 - > She's like, Oh, no, no, not me. 835 - > I was like, really?

836 - > Then, like, why are you leading with that? 837 - > And she's like, Yeah, I don't know. 838 - > I said, You go to conferences, you go, you talk to a lot of 839 - > people, you're just like socially involved. 840 - > She's like, Yeah.

841 - > I'm like, so I'm a big fan of these conferences, I'm a big fan 842 - > of Dream and Events, I'm a big fan of Ohana Slack, I'm a big 843 - > fan of people who are like-minded or differently 844 - > minded, getting together, having discussions. 845 - > What I'm not a fan of are a bunch of sour puss people with 846 - > big ideas, thinking that um, you know, because they've had three 847 - > toxic bosses in a row, and by the way, that means they're the 848 - > toxic person.

849 - > But because they have three toxic bosses and because it's 850 - > very headline carryable, meaning it's very um that news can 851 - > travel fast in social media, it can catch fire, threads can 852 - > explode, oh yeah, me too. 853 - > Oh yeah, F that, right? 854 - > Guys, again, like stay away, stay away from the sewer rats. 855 - > Okay.

856 - > And I when you when you go to these conferences and you talk 857 - > to these people, or you go to even a session where they're 858 - > talking about, you know, hostile work environments and this kind 859 - > of stuff. 860 - > I just want you to ask yourself, like, is this person 861 - > kind of a kind of a jerk off? 862 - > You know, who you're listening to? 863 - > That doesn't mean if they say that they're a jerk off.

864 - > I'm not saying that they are. 865 - > I'm just saying you got to ask yourself, like, will you hire 866 - > this person? 867 - > Does this person seem like it's not jerk off, a pain in the 868 - > ass? 869 - > Is this person a pain in the ass for an employer to work 870 - > with?

871 - > Because if you're a pain in the ass, guys, nobody wants to hire 872 - > you. 873 - > And if if you're a pain in the ass and you have a job, no one's 874 - > gonna want to keep you. 875 - > And as soon as they can say, uh, yeah, we're scaling down AI, 876 - > like, please go. 877 - > Um, I just I guess this is kind of my very because I haven't 878 - > been on this show for like two months, and I've seen it so many 879 - > times when I'm talking to candidates that I can't work 880 - > with that.

881 - > Like you're good, but you talk like that, I can't place you. 882 - > I can't place you. 883 - > I'm focused on the top 10%. 884 - > That's not top 10% stuff.

885 - > And Sasha's made some really excellent points about how to 886 - > stand out. 887 - > Well, that's a way to stand out, but you'd be standing out 888 - > for all the wrong reasons. 889 - > You know, you've really got to keep your context relevant, 890 - > which is I'm not working, I need a job, what am I willing to do? 891 - > Just about anything, anything that's legal, anything that's 892 - > not amoral.

893 - > Let me do that, right? 894 - > Will I eat crow? 895 - > Yeah. 896 - > Have I had to bite my tongue through my you know, 40 years of 897 - > work, 35 years of work?

898 - > Yeah, tons. 899 - > Still didn't bite it enough. 900 - > So, you know, what's the state of the AI mark uh of the world 901 - > right now, the Salesforce market, what's going on with AI 902 - > in the market right now? 903 - > Humans win, right?

904 - > I mean, Scott and Sasha, you guys, you guys are a couple of 905 - > the you guys speak out on this stuff all the time. 906 - > Your humanity will beat AI as long as you know AI. 907 - > Scott Stafford: Yeah. 908 - > Josh Matthews: Your humanity, yeah, your humanity is gonna 909 - > beat out the other 999 applicants, right?

910 - > But that doesn't just mean because you're a human, you have 911 - > to be a nice person. 912 - > You have to be transparent, you have to be honest, you have to 913 - > have done some research. 914 - > I talked to another gal, she was referred by a client of 915 - > mine. 916 - > Um, hey, I want you to check out this person.

917 - > I'm gonna talk to her. 918 - > I loved her. 919 - > I thought she was fantastic. 920 - > She was really great.

921 - > She had done nothing in two years to invest in herself. 922 - > And I don't recommend, I didn't recommend hiring her. 923 - > Like she could just spent a week, just a week, a couple 924 - > nights. 925 - > Just like, what are these terms?

926 - > What are those terms? 927 - > What's changed? 928 - > Just read an article, watch one episode of anything, you know. 929 - > She hadn't invested in anything to prepare for the conversation 930 - > I had with her or to actually exit where she is and get 931 - > established in a new place.

932 - > I don't invest in people that don't invest in themselves. 933 - > And so you've got to invest in yourself. 934 - > And it's probably not going and getting that extra 935 - > certification or even that CSM or any certification at all. 936 - > It's like, really, like, what can I do as a human to stand out 937 - > and be awesome?

938 - > Like be freaking the obvious choice for when I'm going into 939 - > this job. 940 - > State of the market, 2026 is your humanity matters, but boy, 941 - > you've got to rein it in and get a hold of yourself and like be 942 - > a good person and a nice person and do all the right things that 943 - > lead up to it. 944 - > And I want to I want to balance that message, and then we're 945 - > gonna go and I've got more questions for Sasha. 946 - > I want to balance that with this, and it's real simple.

947 - > It's it's hard to stay motivated when you're feeling 948 - > demoralized, right? 949 - > When you're applying over and over again, and your spouse or 950 - > your partner, boyfriend or girlfriend is like, how'd it go 951 - > today? 952 - > And you're like, not great. 953 - > And you're wondering what happens when your card is maxed 954 - > out and your bank account is in the negative, and now you're 955 - > writing bad checks.

956 - > And how you sit there and you look at your kids and they go, 957 - > Did you get a job today, dad? 958 - > And you go, I'm working on it, kiddo. 959 - > Don't worry, like that's hard. 960 - > That's gonna take a big piece out of you.

961 - > And let's face it, it's heartbreaking. 962 - > I know I talk loud and I talk like cut it out and don't do 963 - > that shit, and don't be a fool, but that's on purpose. 964 - > I want you guys to know that's on purpose because it's fucking 965 - > wake up time to like get out of your own freaking way. 966 - > If you're failing right now to get a job, I promise you, it's 967 - > not the market.

968 - > 4%, it's not the market. 969 - > It's decisions that you've made. 970 - > Just start making better ones right now and focus on the 971 - > things that you can do, that you can control. 972 - > Where your effort is.

973 - > Does that make sense? 974 - > Does it make sense to you two? 975 - > Sasha Semjonova: I'd say so. 976 - > Josh Matthews: Just yeah, but but it's okay to feel hurt.

977 - > So, but you gotta, you know, I think these community groups are 978 - > great. 979 - > For giving you some lift. 980 - > You know, when I go, people are like, oh, I see them. 981 - > It's like, you can do this.

982 - > There's so much love in the room. 983 - > Go where you can find some love. 984 - > Scott Stafford: It'll buoy you. 985 - > All right.

986 - > A couple of times. 987 - > I think you gotta digest that too. 988 - > Negativity is not gonna get you a job. 989 - > That's just the I mean, you gotta get that in your head.

990 - > Be positive about what you're doing. 991 - > Be honest with what you're doing, right? 992 - > And then go make it happen. 993 - > Period.

994 - > Josh Matthews: That's yeah. 995 - > There's a reason why they're like, don't bitch about your 996 - > boss at a new company, right? 997 - > Because they're just gonna think, are you gonna bitch about 998 - > me? 999 - > You know?

1000 - > There's a real reason for that. 1001 - > If you need to I I did that. 1002 - > I left a job and then I got it, I got an interview, and oh my 1003 - > god, I was just like the worst interview. 1004 - > All I did was complain about how all this stuff happened and 1005 - > none of it was my fault.

1006 - > I think I was like 30 something, or I don't even 1007 - > remember. 1008 - > Like it was stupid. 1009 - > I was terrible interview. 1010 - > I wouldn't have hired me.

1011 - > Um, not at all. 1012 - > All right, Sasha. 1013 - > I want to know um, I want to know what you think is the next 1014 - > thing. 1015 - > Like I'm not asking for a full prediction of like what's gonna 1016 - > happen in 27 and 28.

1017 - > That's okay. 1018 - > But if there's a thing in the ecosystem, whether it's 1019 - > headless, you know, remember when it was like remote is like 1020 - > the big thing. 1021 - > Like, yeah, what are you catching a whiff of that maybe 1022 - > there's not enough data to actually report on yet? 1023 - > But you're spite you've got spidey senses, I can tell.

1024 - > Sasha Semjonova: I do. 1025 - > Josh Matthews: Your in your intuition is like starting to 1026 - > pull all these threads in, and you're like, this is gonna be a 1027 - > story, July, September. 1028 - > Like what can you give us an idea? 1029 - > What is that gut telling you right now?

1030 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, for sure. 1031 - > I think, and I'll kind of go into a little bit about how it's 1032 - > gonna potentially impact professionals after, but I 1033 - > think, you know, Salesforce has already been hinting it with 1034 - > Headless with everything they're doing with Slack. 1035 - > I think it's very evident that Salesforce is focusing on 1036 - > completely retransforming its UI, right? 1037 - > The way people interact with Salesforce is already starting 1038 - > to become different.

1039 - > But I think the amount of change that is going to happen 1040 - > within the next two months, probably around Dreamforce time 1041 - > as well, when they decide to announce something big, you 1042 - > know, we've already got Parker Harris saying, why ever log into 1043 - > Salesforce again? 1044 - > And we've got Salesforce, you know, releasing Slackbot and 1045 - > Agent Force coworker that kind of connect all these things that 1046 - > they've been working on since 2024, all into one place, making 1047 - > the UI simple.

1048 - > I imagine they've heard the conversation that the 1049 - > community's been saying for a long time of Salesforce is too 1050 - > complex, you're releasing too many products, and we're getting 1051 - > confused. 1052 - > The getting confused part, I think Salesforce still has a 1053 - > problem with that. 1054 - > That's a conversation for another day. 1055 - > Um, but I think kind of blending that and transforming 1056 - > the UI so Salesforce is not entirely a different product, 1057 - > but you almost work with it differently, that's gonna be the 1058 - > next big thing, I think.

1059 - > And for professionals, that's gonna mean kind of having a 1060 - > really particular knowledge of the platform and what influences 1061 - > it. 1062 - > You've got Claude in Salesforce now, right? 1063 - > You've got Anthropic, you've got all these different kinds of 1064 - > agent connections. 1065 - > They're bringing out more.

1066 - > It's connections this week. 1067 - > They've released four new agents for marketers, right? 1068 - > I feel like there's just so much coming out now. 1069 - > And if you're not keeping on top of that, you're not kind of 1070 - > at least attempting to make sense of what's going on, the 1071 - > direction that they're heading in, the way they've made things 1072 - > headless.

1073 - > And I don't think head headless is just a starting point. 1074 - > It's probably gonna accelerate from this point onwards. 1075 - > If you're not kind of aware of the direction that Salesforce is 1076 - > heading in, I think you're just gonna really struggle with the 1077 - > platform because you, yes, of course, you're gonna have 1078 - > customers that are still working with Classic, for example, that 1079 - > have really small orgs and stuff like that, but you'll also 1080 - > be coming across these businesses and these companies 1081 - > that are like, okay, what's the next thing that I can get from 1082 - > Salesforce?

1083 - > And if you're if you're not aware of what that is, then I 1084 - > think you're really gonna struggle. 1085 - > Josh Matthews: Excellent, excellent insight. 1086 - > What does that mean for the ISVs out there? 1087 - > Sasha Semjonova: I think it means a bunch of different 1088 - > things.

1089 - > I think Salesforce has begun to definitely incentivize kind of 1090 - > agent work for ISVs. 1091 - > Um, they overhauled their partner program, they put in a 1092 - > bunch of new things that are like, okay, if you focus on 1093 - > making um solutions orientated around agent force, around AI, 1094 - > we'll give you these incentives, you know. 1095 - > You'll put you're peddling our mission almost. 1096 - > But I also think ISVs now, because obviously ISVs are 1097 - > separate to Salesforce, they need to really be trying to look 1098 - > at, okay, what do my customers specifically want from AI?

1099 - > You know, like do they want these big, flashy integrations? 1100 - > Do they want these a thousand capabilities, or do they want 1101 - > something smaller that can kind of just pull everything in their 1102 - > org together, make things more efficient? 1103 - > I think now is the time for really kind of understanding 1104 - > your customers, understanding your audience. 1105 - > They're gonna be the ones buying from you, they're the 1106 - > ones gonna be, you know, talking or choosing your solution, 1107 - > understand them.

1108 - > Now is the time to do it. 1109 - > Josh Matthews: Excellent insight, Sasha. 1110 - > This has been a lovely conversation. 1111 - > It's been wonderful to have you on board.

1112 - > Um, Scott, can you help us understand what conferences are 1113 - > coming up? 1114 - > What should be what should people be paying attention to? 1115 - > I know you mentioned Dream Force. 1116 - > We're all gonna be there, right?

1117 - > Yes. 1118 - > Okay, what else is going on? 1119 - > Scott Stafford: Yeah, all of us are gonna be there. 1120 - > I I'm excited.

1121 - > I'm gonna be going out to Mile High. 1122 - > Uh, that's a big conference. 1123 - > It's gonna be out in um in Colorado, and that's at the end 1124 - > of August. 1125 - > I believe they're still gonna be having the one out in SoCal.

1126 - > It's also in August. 1127 - > Unfortunately, I think we heard that um Force Landia got 1128 - > canceled, right? 1129 - > And and then there's also Dreaming in Color. 1130 - > I'm not actually sure exactly the date, but that is That's in, 1131 - > I think it's in July in Atlanta this year.

1132 - > Josh Matthews: Yeah. 1133 - > Scott Stafford: It's yeah, it is an incredible conference. 1134 - > So uh lots of good people there, and and it could help you 1135 - > to get motivated, but also lean in and ask people for some 1136 - > honest, you know, opinion. 1137 - > Hey, what do you think I should focus on?

1138 - > Because I've been giving a lot different, you know, perspective 1139 - > for people that are doing um like the admins are. 1140 - > I'm saying, yeah, that's a good place. 1141 - > You're almost done, but you probably want to lean in a 1142 - > little bit more to AI after this. 1143 - > So, you know, have those deep, authentic conversations, you 1144 - > know, be honest and just kind of like what Sasha was saying.

1145 - > Don't just listen to everything that Salesforce is saying. 1146 - > They have their own agenda. 1147 - > If you're an ISB, serve your customers, right? 1148 - > Find out what they want, right?

1149 - > And have those conversations and then build products for 1150 - > them. 1151 - > Josh Matthews: Terrific. 1152 - > And Sasha, you're gonna be at Dreamforce. 1153 - > Any other conferences or physical appearances that you'll 1154 - > be making?

1155 - > Sasha Semjonova: Yeah, I um I'll be at Dream Force. 1156 - > I will also be at SF Ben Con, which is Salesforce Ben's uh 1157 - > very first conference. 1158 - > That's later in the year. 1159 - > I don't have the month off the top of my head, but I really in 1160 - > London?

1161 - > Uh yeah, it is gonna be in London. 1162 - > The details are on the Salesforce Ben website. 1163 - > Josh Matthews: Fantastic. 1164 - > Scott Stafford: I have our good friend Gabby is working on that, 1165 - > and she is really excited.

1166 - > She was on your show, Josh, and she says it's gonna be one 1167 - > incredible conference. 1168 - > Josh Matthews: So exciting. 1169 - > So exciting. 1170 - > Sasha, you are welcome back anytime.

1171 - > I thought your responses were insightful, um, like broad. 1172 - > You're your like your understanding of the ecosystem. 1173 - > I mean, it's so different from ours, right? 1174 - > Because you're looking at it so broadly in a full-time 1175 - > capacity.

1176 - > Um, how can people follow you, stay on top of your article 1177 - > releases, things like that? 1178 - > Sasha Semjonova: LinkedIn is definitely the place. 1179 - > Yeah, I'm most active on there talking about anything and 1180 - > everything, especially if it's controversial. 1181 - > If it's controversial, I'll have my name on it.

1182 - > So, yeah, you can definitely find me on LinkedIn. 1183 - > Josh Matthews: Fantastic. 1184 - > Well, thank you, everybody. 1185 - > We'll be back in two or three weeks.

1186 - > I'm not sure exactly when, but we'll be back for another 1187 - > episode uh sometime in June. 1188 - > It's been a pleasure having you guys, and uh, we'll be back. 1189 - > Bye for now. 1190 - > Bye, everybody.