From GE’s $100B Transformation to Klarna and DeepL: Lessons in Scaling, with Martino Cadoni

Speaker A: Most successful companies today often are full of employees which then become founders, which was not necessarily the case 20 or 30 years ago.

Speaker B: When do you feel that a company is ready to move to such an important moment of the company? Typically like an ipo? What are the signs that make you feel that the company is ready and that you're ready to recommend to the board, the CEO or whoever else it's time to move on?

Speaker A: For example, in Apple, we stole it from Amazon, actually. So we always wrote press release on what success looks like. Like, if we succeed, what would the news and the papers tell about us? And then like work backwards. How do we get there? I always, uh, joke with, uh, our chief revenue officer. Uh, our job is not very different. He's selling the product. I'm always selling, in a way, the story of the company to the investors, to the media. So it's a lot of storytelling in both jobs. Right.

Speaker C: I'm really feeling astonished listening to your answer to. In a hype cycle, growth can look deceptively easy. But the real test is whether the company underneath is built to survive it. Today's guest is Martino Cadone, CFO of UM, DEEP L and formerly Senior Finance Leader at GE&Klarna. In this episode, we talk about the CFO's role in building a company that survives the hype. We get into the high pressure moments that reveal whether a business is truly ready M M and a major transactions shifting from growth to discipline and deciding whether ambition ends and where waste begins. We also talk about AI as a measurable operating improvement, not just a market narrative. And how Martina's own investment in learning has shaped the way he leads. This is the growth minded cfo. Let's dive in.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Growth Minded cfo. I am super, super happy to be unfortunately not in the studio today with Loren, but remote. But we today have an amazing guest and I'll let Loren introduce him because they are sitting next to each other.

Speaker C: That's right. So we're here in the studio. I'm here with Martino Cadoni. He is the CFO of DeepL. Um, and we're really excited today for this episode, both to have Martino and here and to be doing this episode in in the studio with Alex Remote. It's sort of a new thing we're trying out. We're really excited for it. Um, so to kick it off, let's flip to Martino. I'd love to know a little bit more about who you are and what you do.

Speaker A: Yeah. First of all, thanks for having me here. It's fantastic to be in New York and uh, yeah, discuss about everything about CFO life and uh, what's going on in the AI uh, industry. Right. About myself. I'm the CFO DeepL. DeepL is a global artificial intelligence company. We are famous to be the world's most accurate translator. So we have proprietary models like specializing language translation. Uh, I joined the company back in November 2025. Uh, before DeepL I was in private market actually at Klarna. Helped the company fast like going through the pre IPO journey, fundraising, IPO readiness and then also some meaningful M and A deals. And uh, before Klarna, I spent uh, my career first at General Electric where I went through the leadership programs which gave me the huge privilege to work and live across eight different countries and across different industries. Before I settled down in uh, financial services for a while, so I was in banking with hsbc. So again super excited to be here and uh, to discuss uh, a lot of interesting topics.

Speaker C: We're really excited to see you here and to ask you lots of questions. Um, it's really interesting when we look kind of at the arc of your career and where you've been. You've had so much experience at really expertly scaling companies. We have a lot of different CFOs that kind of sit at different life cycles of the company. Um, um, and a lot of your experiences have been about scaling and growing and prepping before ipo. So I'm curious from that perspective what you've kind of seen as defining what it takes to be a uh, scaling company versus sort of a company just starting out. What does sort of that journey look like at a high level to you?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a lot about risk appetite, but also risk like disruption appetite. Right. So when you are a very little startup, obviously your risk update appetite should be as high as it can be. Right. And then it's all about really solving problem for the customers, build great products and selling those right. Which is fantastic. And I think one of the best thing about today is that it's becoming easier and easier to build the start a company to build great products also because AI facilitates all of this. I think what is becoming increasingly difficult is to become a company that can repeat this all over and over again.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, because I think back in the days was very difficult to start. But then once you crack the code and you become a big brand that uh, you have good products, then it was a bit easier to be to sustain that success. Right. While now we have seen in a lot of cases where you know, companies start really strong, but then if you are not, if you don't build the discipline, the maturity and the processes, uh, to remain relevant, it doesn't matter if you started really strong. So I think yeah, today you have lower barriers to entry, but I think then the competition becomes much tougher. But while in the past was higher barriers to entry, but then once you get to a position of dominance it was a bit easier to remain relevant. So I think was the key is like appreciate, understand that risk appetite in your journey but also build the modus operandi and the culture in the company which enables to mature while still retaining that ability to disrupt and to build great products, uh, to build great solutions for the customers. Right. I mean one example, uh, which always make, which is a company I really admire is Amazon. And now Amazon, it evolved over time, right. It started very small with a really narrow focus, selling just books and then it started to become a marketplace selling substantially everything. And uh, then it started to do cloud business. Right. And I think one of the key things that made Amazon successful was actually the top erotin model, the leadership culture, which then you have no limits, right? It doesn't matter where you started. You can substantially build anything you want in any industry if you have the right DNA in the company and you have the right people so the right talents. Right. And I think what I've always looked into my experiences is like how can I learn from these different DNAs and cultures. Right. And what I feel very privileged about is like for example a GE was a fantastic leadership people culture, but not necessarily uh, the most disruptive product culture because was a company with like over 100 years of age, right. And then moving to companies like Klarna, while on the other side extremely, uh, fast paced, very disruptive, going after the traditional business model and innovate uh, from scratch. And if you combine the best of all these cultures, I think you get what it takes to succeed in the medium and long term.

Speaker B: That's a great point that you're making, uh, Martino around the lower barrier to entry for starting a new business. And we always talk about AI and we've always talked about technology and now AI around building those businesses. But I was curious about the point you just made around talent density and people like, how does that look like from a day to day perspective for you to be, you know, you just mentioned that GE was a great company for people like what does that mean from an operational standpoint?

Speaker A: Yeah, I Think it's a lot, um, finding the people the right attitude. For example, one of the things was amazing at ge, they really looked into ambition, right? And also that strong willingness to really, uh, improve all over and over. Like people extremely focus on their personal development. Right. And they often, they were looking for example, for the underdogs, particularly in the U.S. often they would try to avoid hiring from the top schools because their view was actually um, people from like, you know, like middle class, not wealthy backgrounds. They are very ambitious, very driven because they want to climb the ladder, they want to prove themselves. Sometimes they have like a grit and a resilience that people who come from like a um, wealthy background do not have. Right. And in all the successful companies I've seen, I think what's really important in talent is this ambition, this relentless research of becoming the better version of themselves. And I think if you look now at successful organizations like, I don't know, Revolut ah in Europe, ramp in the US if you talk to people employed at those company and uh, you talk to them for more than 10 minutes, you realize they are full of those type of people. People who are like relentlessly looking to improve, relentlessly looking to succeed and to win. Right. Uh, and that's why actually we look also at DeepL is like people who are very competitive, always trying to improve things and they don't settle very easily. Right. And I think today more than ever, you need those people. You need those people which I call builders, because in today's age you need people who have the entrepreneurial itch. And that's why in fact the most successful people today, uh, most successful companies today often are full of employees which then become founders, which was not necessarily the case 20 or 30 years ago. Right. You might have successful employees like staying with the same company 10, 20, 30 years, having a fantastic career, which was amazing. But now what you see, actually the successful companies are full of people who stay to build the scale the company, but then they move on, uh, they become founders themselves. So I think that entrepreneurship DNA within employees now is becoming more and more relevant.

Speaker C: Super interesting, connecting kind of two of the points you made. This talent and sort of the ambition also with uh, the sort of status of a scaled company versus a startup company that you mentioned before, around actually now being much harder to sustain than it is to start. It's interesting, um, what comes to my mind sort of is do you need to shift modes at some point, right? Because if you are hiring for ambitious people who are very competitive, who want to build fast I could see that really working for an earlier stage company or a company that's growing really quickly, but at scale. I imagine when they're thinking about ipoing, we, uh, need some talent that's going to ensure that it's not a fragile organization, that it's not moving so fast, that there's not a lot of technical debt or other issues that can crop up when you're operating at scale. So how do you think about the trade off? Is there a trade off there or you know, how do you think about that?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, there is definitely a trade off to be very careful about it. And I think you need to be very good at building teams to have both of that. And also you need to communicate very clearly why that mix can be beneficial to everyone. Right. And I take this development journey a bit like also individual talent development. Right. Sometimes you need to give tough feedback or ask your people to do things which might not be extremely excited about. But if you are very good at communicating why that matters and why that is going to make them better professionals and most importantly they understand that the way you are telling them is because you care about them, then they get it and uh, they move on with it. Right. It's often actually what happens is in a scale up you need to build a lot of boring processes and controls which nobody's really excited about. But uh, if you are very clear that actually those things matter to make the company successful, actually for them personally, the ability to combine their already existing, let's say builder's DNA with the ability to do the boring stuff and then they're going to make them like a better professional, more successful person, then they get it and they jump with you to support you in the journey. If you just tell them go and do the boring stuff, then it's going to be a very hard uh, journey. So I think communication and then showing that you care when you are building the teams, you're building the processes, I think it means a lot. And a lot of people underestimate how important the type of communication is and to make people feeling important along the journey because you don't want to also be in the situation where people have been in the journey very early now, they feel neglected because they feel that company needs a different type of talent. It's not actually the case. You just need a slightly different mix of competencies. But also I think the most successful people, they evolve as the company evolve. Right. And we have seen a lot of examples, uh, also at Klarna, for example, people have been There like in the last 20 years and now they are fantastic public company executives.

Speaker C: Right. As a, as a quick follow up to that exact question, I'm curious if in uh, one of the companies you've been at, you felt that shift, that need to change and what it felt like and what started to break when you realized that was happening.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think obviously the clear example is a Klarna, right. Because I was there in the four years, uh, pre ipo, so we went obviously from hypergrowth and then getting ready to be a public company. And then you see that actually sometimes the way of doing things needs to slightly change but without losing that core, uh, DNA. Right. So you just need to acknowledge, and I always think that a very relevant wave is always look at what success looks like and then walk backwards. Right. And for uh, example in I think Klarna, we stole it from Amazon actually. So we always wrote press releases on what success looks like. Like if we succeed, what would the news and the papers tell about us? And then like work backwards. How do we get there? Right. And then you understand that there are different skills that you need. And then actually we had to reorganize a lot of teams, a lot of roles. And uh, so you need to acknowledge uh, that the change is happening. And I think this one actually is not about company, but it's also about people. I think one skill that a lot of people neglect is what I call self awareness. People often, they don't know how good or bad they are. And that's why in my opinion, you should always seek for a lot of feedback, constant feedback, so that you can fine tune and have a very strong self awareness, understand things where you are very strong at and things where you need to improve.

Speaker B: I love that point you just made around how you mix those skills and statuses that you need to have to be ready. And something that really resonates with uh, both of us as entrepreneurs, I guess for us, uh, with Lauren, is the fact that there is of course the exciting part of keep on building, keep on moving fast, but also sometimes the boring part, uh, that needs to happen. Especially if you're getting to a mature stage where if you don't do it, everything breaks. And so striking the right balance between the two is actually uh, like super, super important and comes back as well to a question of mindset, uh, and people that you hire for. So I think it's a, it's a, it's a great point you're making here. Um, Martina M. Just, I, I'd like to just Shift gear a little bit and get into like your actual work. Because I know that you are super experienced with very successful IPOs and very high stake transactions. Can you give us a few examples of things that you've achieved so that our audience knows what we're talking about? But also I think your perspective that would be super interesting would be to know, uh, when do you feel that a company is ready to move to such an important moment of the company, typically like an ipo? What are the signs that make you feel that the company is ready and that you're ready to recommend to the board, the CEO or whoever else it's time to move on?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think different things, Right. And um. And yeah, going back to what I've achieved, right. I mean all these journey about getting companies ready, as you said, they actually came up from uh, almost like uh, a negative event, right. Because when I was a ge, I was actually after the leadership programs, I moved to London and I was having a senior like a PNA role, but very business as usual. So nothing fancy or nothing transactional. Right. And uh, one day, um, there was like a last um, minute all ends. They called everyone in a room. I was part of G Capital, which was the financial services part of General Electric back then, that uh, this was post the financial crisis, right? So we are talking uh, 2014 and so on, right? And the Globe SEO substantially told us that, you know, the shareholders and the boards had realized and decided that they didn't want GE to be a uh, conglomerate any longer and they wanted to focus on the industrial part of their business and therefore that everything else would be either shut down or be put on sale. Right? And obviously for us GE Capital employees was like the day was like very dark. Because everyone, I say, okay, we love this company. We were born and raised, a lot of us were born and raised professionally within GE through uh, the programs. So for us was the start of the end, but actually was actually beginning of a fantastic journey. Because what happened is they selected me to be actually the part of the M and A team at the finance team that to take this massive business, over 100 billion in assets, so 100 billion, very big, and break it down in components that then would have enabled to maximize the exit value of the business. Right? And this was a mix of lending businesses, uh, leasing businesses, banks and so on and so forth, right? And so being part of the journey where you take a business, you break it down, you understand where the value is and then you prepare this part of the business either for being sold To a strategic acquirer. For example, one of the transaction I led, we sold a lending business to Wells Fargo, uh, internationally, so US, Asia and Europe. Then selling a business to a strategic acquirer is very different than selling to a private equity. We sold also a lot of business to private equity. Like we sold to Blackstone, some other businesses and then some others. You need to realize, okay, is it better to sell or maybe you can IPO. And actually we did three major IPOs during that period. I was leading the finance readiness of one, which was a Moneta bank in, uh, Prague in Czech Republic, uh, which ended up being a 1.5 billion, uh, IPO raising 750 million. Uh, so the ability to understand how different those transactions are, but at the same time the process is very similar, right? Because you need to be able to craft a story, whatever the story is, which is going to then maximize the price that somebody else is willing to pay, either in private markets or a strategic acquirer. Right. And I think it's to your question. I think what really matters is to understand, so you have a set of products, you have a set of customers, uh, you have a brand. If you look forward 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, where is the, the owner or the space where that business can have the most value, right? And uh, then again, you work backwards. They say, okay, I think this company has the potential to be a public company in three to five years, so we should go ready for it, right? Or sometimes you say, you know what, this is a very niche business. I think it would be better off if in somebody's else hands, right? Or in some cases like the bank. We were actually running a parallel track. So we were exploring both an IPO and both like to get acquired. But then the markets were very favorable, so we decided to ipo, right? So I think it's the ability to really think like forward and understanding and making sure that what you have today is sustainable as a public company. Because obviously there's the big question mark. Because if you don't have the path, then you go by exclusion and say, okay, I don't think I, uh, have what it takes yet to be a public company. So am I better off as a standalone company, uh, keep fundraising on whatever you want to do, or shall I actually partner with somebody else, do a merger or being acquired, right? And often is about, uh, uh, this becomes very difficult with founders, because founders, obviously, that's their baby, right? And they obviously have a very strong awareness of the company. But there is also a lot of emotions, ego involved. So you need to help also the founder navigate that uh, thought process. Right. And I think what really makes the difference is to ask the hard questions and to look for the truth. Right. As some companies have succeeded in that and some others, sometimes they get lost in translation and they are unable to find their path. Right. And uh, that's right. Now you see a lot of companies, sometimes they are stuck in the middle because they don't know what to do next or they are seeking like targets which are unachievable just because they don't have what it takes to what they are trying to do.

Speaker C: Wow. I just like, I really feeling astonished listening to your answer to this question because it's revealing just what an amazing learning opportunity it was to get to be a part of so many M and A transactions all at once. And you've given us this really interesting like triage framework sort of of thinking about when there is a company to be sold. The thought process going through your brain in terms of is it ready to ipo? If not, here are the other options. Is it a spin out? Are we selling to a strategic, Are we partnering with a pe? Um, and you've mentioned that some of the process is quite similar. Um, but you mentioned it's different. And because I feel like you've had enough experience to teach a masterclass on M and A transactions, I wonder if you could give us a peek of under, what is the difference? If I am going to experience the IPO versus the spin out versus the strategic buyer versus the PE buyer process? What's sort of the way you would think about maybe briefly preparing me for any one of those types of transactions? What's different about them?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, yeah, let's start with ipo, which is like the toughest questions maybe that is like, do I have a product which is easy to be understood by retail investors, first of all. Second, uh, is this product very defensible where it's clear that this product or this company will be successful in 10, 20 years? Right. Because I think success in public markets is really, people need to believe in the future as SpaceX now is the clear example. Taken to the extreme, it's not where you are today, but it's also like giving the confidence that in five years, 10 years, you're going to be there and you're going to be at your best. Right. And so it's a lot of, let's say, product focus and vision focus while surrounding all of this with all the processes to make the company standalone and sustainable. Because you need a Lot of extra work which is not required if you are not ipoing. Right. Like even basic style, like building a proper treasury and investor relation thing. Right. Uh, getting ready for different type of scrutiny and be compliant with a lot of rules, regulation which are not applicable if you are a private company. Right. So it's a lot. It's like if you take what you have today and you look forward, do you have a very solid, clear, uh, equity story? Right. And that's why, and actually one of them m. One of the good reasons when, when I was at Klarna, my actually last project was carving out the selling a part of the business which was Klarna checkout, which was a great payment business within Klarna. Uh, but one of the reason that we sold that part of the business before the knock after is without the business, the Klarna equity story would have been easier. Right? Because you, you want to have a very clean, a consistent message to the market. And that's why, you know, you need to look into these things. Right. Conversely, if you are selling for example to a, uh, strategic acquirer, it's a lot about which value can you add to those type of companies. And the value can be very, very articulated. And actually you can get very creative if you are on the sales side. Because you need to understand how my customer base can be valuable to whoever buys it, then how can my products can be valuable if added to the product stack of whoever wants to buy. And then another thing is the core synergies, right? If you combine two companies, how much money can be saved because you can remove a lot of duplication, uh, uh, and so on and so forth. Right. And that's why, I mean now in AI, you see consolidation starting with a lot of deals that have been announced in the last few weeks. And I think a lot of things is going to be about synergies in compute cost infrastructure because everyone is quite scared about the cost of building these AI, uh, companies. And that's why some smaller companies, you know, they say I'm better off, I'm stronger if Salesforce buys me or Adyen buys me or Stripe acquires me. And then, um, I think looking yourself at the mirror and understanding where your challenges are and where you can truly unlock the potential of the company is going to really educate where your next step is. And we have seen a lot of companies doing multiple jumps back and forth, right? They go public, then they get uh, acquired and or you know, they get privatized and then public again, you know, so, so it's not a one way journey. Uh, but I think you just need to be very smart. They also obviously understand what makes sense for the customers but also for of of course for the investors. Right. Because another variable in the timing of any type of these transactions is understand the investor's appetite. Right. Because uh, your investor usually they have an old in period. Um depend between five and 10 years. Now it's getting longer because companies are staying private longer. But also understand uh, your, your main investor's appetite is. Is very important to then decide what. What's best to do next.

Speaker C: Very interesting. Such a different journey.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, it's interesting to look at the breadth of your experience Martino, and seeing how precise you are in terms of things that can be very different in terms of going IPO or private. And I think it's super, super interesting for everyone who's in finance and wants to work to this kind of transaction. Uh, the type of transaction.

Speaker A: Sorry, one question because going back to finance, what's very common across of this path is predictability. Right. So doesn't matter which type of process you're going to pick. Right. Or path but ability from a finance perspective, ability to explain the business model. Uh, to have a business plan, a forecast which everyone can believe and is backed by very strong assumptions and uh, you know, it's very rational. Uh you stress test the plan, you are able to work through downsize scenarios, upside scenarios. I think the one is needs to be amazing. Uh, whatever path you pick. Right. And um, and actually because all of them, particularly if it's private tech with your public markets, that's actually what matters the most for them. Understand your financials down the line.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You know Martin, it's interesting because it's a question I was actually about to ask before we take a break. The question I was about to ask is you mentioned earlier the question and the importance of the story and how you pitch like this kind of like the lonesome story that you're going to sell to the market or an investor. And usually it's, you know, you work as a CFO on the story and then the CEO or the founders are very clear on that beautiful story that they have ahead of us of them. But then the question is like how do you bridge the story and then the reality and you started alluding to that very specific point which is usually the work of the CFO to say great, this is the story, but how do we bring that back into the reality of the numbers, the business model? What's your experience in this and how can you. What will you be your tip for CFOs that have to navigate sometimes. What it could be a bit of a disconnect between the amazing story that we selling on the deck and the reality of the numbers.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think actually the disconnect often starts from a CFO fold. I think to avoid the disconnect, you just need to be very nosy, always next to the founders to make sure that actually you build the story with the founder. Right. And you challenge the founder or the CEO along the journey and not only when you need to go in front of the investors. Right. Because I think people always think that there are very different jobs if you think about the Chief Revenue officer, uh, CEO, cfo. But actually there are very tangible skills which are common across all those roles.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: And one is storytelling and selling. Right. Um, I always, ah, joke with, uh, our Chief Revenue officer. Our job is not very different, is selling the product. I'm always selling, in a way, the story of the company to the investors, to the media. So it's a lot of storytelling in both jobs. Right. And uh, the other one is negotiation. Right. We are in both roles. You are in constant negotiation with everyone. Like is negotiating with the customers, I'm negotiating with the internal stakeholders and negotiating with, uh, partners, suppliers, investors. So there are a lot of common traits, uh, which actually. So I think the CFO of today, CFO of the future, is much more than finance. And it really, truly needs to understand everything that is going on in the business. And if you do that, then you are actually with the founder, crafting the story since day one and not just a passive contributor. Right. Because I think, uh, the skills are very complementary so you can have a much m more powerful story if the CFO is involved since day one. Also, because there are a lot of what we call technically growth levers then can come out from a, uh, CFO brain rather than just a founder brain. Right. And because it's not where the business is today, but you can obviously add to the story a lot of things which are purely financial to say, hey, you know what, if we do this, we can have this synergy, save x hundred of million which you can then reinvest to launch another product or whatever. Right. Or a. If we can, if you are public, that's something I was doing in my role. HSBC is like understanding how much dividends do you want to pay to the investors that they always let trade off. Do you want to give back cash today to the investors or you want to retain so that you can reinvest or you can do a buyback. So there is a lot of strategic thinking and storytelling which should come from the CFO brain. So it's paramount for a CFO today to really be in the room. Since day one and not only when something has been decided in terms of what the exit path is going to

Speaker C: be, you've given a great sort of guidance on connecting the reality and sort of the more hopeful story around. It's just if the CFO is more of the steward of reality in the organization and the steward of metrics based financial thinking, then you just need to be in the room, you need to be noisy, you need to participate in crafting the story to bring it more authenticity.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, same in anything that's happening in the organization, like you know, customer negotiation, partnerships. Because only when you are involved at the level of detail, you're going to really be able to add value in crafting the story and uh, link the dots like end to end. Right. And I'm really grateful because actually was a lot the spirit of the programs at General Electric, they would ship us to different geographies, a different industry, different teams, and often we were doing audit work. So you had to be nosy because you had to find issues. You were rewarded if you find issues. So. And yeah, I try to keep the DNA with myself and trying, you know, say I'm a cfo, but with the, you know, with the mindset of more or less CEO or general manager and why not? Maybe it's going to be my next step.

Speaker B: Right, you will become a founder. That's what you said earlier.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: And I think, uh, I think it's a great headline for the growth mind and cfo like we've always had those kind of like key moments on the show where CFOs have been able to share one valuable and very valuable feedback. And this one around how to craft the story by not only participating in it, but also be involved from the start is definitely a good one. Um, I suggest we take a short break because time is flying. Uh, and we'll be back in a minute on the show with Martino. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: Still to come in this episode.

Speaker A: So most importantly, I think during the ZRF fully appreciated how important people and networking is. Right. Because that's where the serendipity happens. And when you are able really to add value to others, usually things come back. I always say give before you take. And I always found that not only you learning a lot, um, when you invest in those type of journeys, but also you come across amazing people who are like, uh, minded, ambitious, uh, lifetime learner, uh, and then some magic happens.

Speaker C: Enjoying today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and, and tell a friend about the show. Now back to the episode.

Speaker B: All right, and we're back to this amazing episode with Martino today. And you just touched upon this Martino. And I think this is something that um, has been the baseline of like all the conversation around how you kept on learning and kept on improving on the things that you are doing. I was kind of curious and we were super curious with Lauren preparing this episode on M. What was the starting point for you to start investing in your own career and all the knowledge that you have today? It seems that this was coming from some of your companies or carrier. But I was very curious to see what was the turning point for you to start really investing into your own, uh, personal development.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it comes back to the early my career because, um, the leadership programs, the General Electric were actually a combination of working and studying, right?

Speaker C: It's very famous by the way. I know of this leadership development program.

Speaker A: So not only we were working very hard in our daily job, but we had exams, like, was like a corporate MBA type of thing, often using like, uh, Harvard materials and stuff and uh, using the Crotonville, which was this famous learning center, uh, in Connecticut. And so having gone through four years of this constant working and studying where everyone was actually tangibly seeing how powerful they were, how fast we were developing when I, uh, then moved on to, let's call it a normal job after a few years, hey, I missed a little bit the learning part and having this compounding effect of learning while working and link the dots across industry and stuff. But also most importantly, I think during the crf, fully appreciated how important people and networking is, right? Because that's where the serendipity happens. And when you are able really to add value to others, usually things comes back. I always say give before you take. And I always found that not only you learning a lot when you invest in those type of journeys, but also you come across amazing people who are like minded, ambitious, lifetime, uh, learner. Uh, and then some magic happens, right? Um, and it happens all the time. It's like when I did the FinTech program at Oxford, for example. I became a very good friend of one of the professors. I still now go once a year, uh, to Imperial College, uh, to like do guest lectures. We have invested together in some startups and then If I look at for example the entrepreneurship program at London Business School, one of the best things I took away is what is so called the disciplined entrepreneur framework. Which really helps you think about entrepreneurship in a very structured a, uh, different way. Which I find it very valuable because I think often companies are trying to follow the hype but they get lost in this process which at the end what you are trying to do is to solve problems of people if you are a B2C company of uh, solve companies problems if you are B2B and then again work backwards and uh, from there. Ah, so their framework were absolutely valuable, which I use every day, uh, at Depot and then uh, the most recent one at MIT again was a fantastic cohort of people, fantastic uh, professors. And I think another thing that most people underappreciate is most people we don't fully leverage the people we know, uh, because often we stop at the first degree. It's like imagine you have an uncle. Your uh, uncle is a surgeon, right. And I'm in finance. A lot of people say, I mean my uncle is a surgeon, I'm in finance. I mean there's not much really. I don't think there is much to share between the two when it comes to people. But actually I bet you if you ask your uncle about people which are interesting, they could be, you know, beneficial for me to meet. I'm pretty sure the list is long because he has a lot of patients. They maybe are founders, entrepreneurs, they are tech people. Uh, similarly, I'm pretty sure I have a lot of friends that maybe they need a doctor at some point. Right. And a lot of people forget that. Right. In fact, usually when I meet uh, anyone for breakfast or coffee, one of the questions before I go is like, is there anyone in your network which you think would be mutually beneficial, um, for us to get introduced. Right. Even yesterday, for example, uh, I was in Brooklyn, very social event, nothing war related. Uh, I bump into a person, the person used to, yeah, it works at ramp. And this morning I sent three introduction emails helping him m. You know, getting in touch with some people. He wanted to talk. Right. So I think we always under leverage and underappreciate the power of people connections.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's so interesting because we asked you about training. I didn't even think about how much of a wonderful networking opportunity taking kind of educational opportunities during your career would present. I remember definitely experiencing that with an mba. Um, but when we think about training later on in career, I think we think about, I don't know, at least I think about, like, the skills, but not necessarily those connections. And that's such a huge, huge piece. It sounds like from what you've taken away, I'm curious, as you've been in one of these trainings, um, have you had a moment where you are kind of in a role at work? You are simultaneously taking one of the many, um, uh, courses that you've done. I think that's what led us to realize you were really investing in these educational experiences because you've done many of them. Was there ever a moment that you learned something in class and it completely changed how you made a decision or how you navigated a situation at work?

Speaker A: Yeah, the disciplined entrepreneurship framework, that's for sure. Right. And then often what it really makes you appreciate is your stakeholders in a way that, for example, uh, when I did mit, a lot of classmates were more from a technical background. And one of the main reason I wanted to take the role is I wanted to better understand the technical side of artificial intelligence so that I can be a better business partner to ctos. A chief research. And hopefully this is helping me today when, you know, I need, uh, to make important decisions together with our CTO chief research on should we invest in A rather than B, what does it mean for our product roadmap, for our financials? So I think it's a lot about better understanding, um, everyone you are dealing with, uh, at work and also in life.

Speaker C: I would say get better understanding everything in life and taking that step back. It's so interesting. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation, Martina. I think it's been a really wonderful discussion about scaling, about what it takes to continue to grow personally, uh, and to grow the team. Um, so thank you so much for joining us on the show with myself and Alex. Uh, it was really lovely to have you.

Speaker A: Thanks for having me here. It was great.

Speaker C: Uh, if you like the show, you can subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts on YouTube as well. And if you would like to be a guest on the growth minded cfo, we have an application, uh, where you can sign up to join us on the next episode. Alex, did I forget anything before we wrap up?

Speaker B: No, I think we will.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Martino, for coming today. And you know, Lauren, I'll be very happy to be back in the studio next time.

Speaker C: We can't wait to have you back here, Alex. See you next time.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.