Building Trust, Driving Growth & Staying Customer-Obsessed with Amy Loh, CMO at Pipe

Speaker A: Welcome to the FML Podcast. The podcast on a mission to uncover actionable insights, explore the latest trends and to catalyze your fintech's growth. Join growthgorilla's founder and managing director Shamir Sachdev and some of fintech's hardest hitting marketers and leaders.

Speaker B: Welcome everyone to today's episode of the FML Podcast. Today we're joined by the lovely Amy Lowe, who's who's currently CMO at Pype. Amy, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker C: Thanks for having me today.

Speaker B: Great stuff. Um, well, let's just jump straight into it for everyone listening to the show, um, just share a little bit about yourself and your journey so far.

Speaker C: I have started my career in marketing over 15 years ago. I used to live in New York and I worked at a number of agencies and transitioned into consulting. And so I got to experience a lot of different types of companies, both small and big. And then when I moved out to the Bay Area, you know, I really wanted to be on, you know, the tech side and being really in house and seeing how all the workings behind the scenes work. And so I was really lucky enough to land a role at Square back in 2016 and spent about eight and a half years there, just kind of transitioning into different marketing leadership roles there. And it was a really incredible experience. I got to learn so much and see the growth of Square. And then a year ago I actually joined Pipe. Ah, our CEO Luke Voyles, he was actually at Square as well and so he brought me over and um, so pipe is only 100 people person company and so it's much, much different, much faster pace, um, startup compared to Square was and it's been a really fun journey so far.

Speaker B: Just give us a, you know, the elevator pitch and the overview of um, who Pipe are and what you all do.

Speaker C: Pipe has actually been on a bit of a journey. So it started in 2019 and our old founders actually kind of pioneered revenue based financing and it was selling directly to entrepreneurs and startup founders. Since Luke joined, we've gone through a bit of a pivot and we've transitioned into an embedded finance company. And what that means is what we are building the infrastructure and tech stack that can be embedded directly into software platforms that serve SMBs. So we actually have an embedded capital product and that's our flagship product. And you can launch a capital product within a software platform in as little as two weeks. And so we make that super easy where we take care of all the compliance, the risk, the capital markets and you can really bring a New product to market and bring access to Capital to SMBs really, really quickly.

Speaker B: Who are your ideal customers? Obviously the end users the SMBs, but you know, who are you serving yourself directly?

Speaker C: When we're looking to partner with different software platforms, there's a few criteria. Obviously first is the end SMBs that they serve, um, but also are they actually in the payments flow and are we able to get that payments transaction data? Because as those software platforms pass that payments data over to us, we're actually taking that payments data and underwriting credit for that end user. And so our ideal customers really um, look like the vertical SaaS platform. So think of the slice or the toast or mindbody. And so those are um, directly serving SMBs, but may not have the resources to build all of these products in house. So those are the types of companies we're trying to partner with.

Speaker B: Like you said, it's been quite a change. I remember when sort of pipe, um, well first launch really it was, I mean it was quite a big deal really to be honest with you. I remember they were trending all over what was Twitter back then. It was somewhat revolutionary in terms of what they had done. Right. It was very much a game changer for um, a lot of SaaS firms. And very quickly there were a lot of imitators that sort of spun up behind them. What led to making that change to move from being sort of revenue based financing to sort of embedded, was that because of there were so many sort of more competitors all of a sudden or was that just a change in trajectory in terms of the business?

Speaker C: When our CEO came in and looked at sort of the old revenue based financing business, it was very revolutionary. But what our old founders found is that it was really hard to scale a direct business. It took a lot of marketing dollars and the risk was not always that great. And so Luke, because he has built these capital programs at Intuit and he was the GM of square banking, he knows how this capital line of product can really perform, what its potential is. And so in order to really do this at scale with really good data, he really wanted to go through the channel partner route where we can get much, much richer data on the end SMBs and, and we can rely on the partner for our main M distribution needs. And so it was a much more scalable business. And when we did the pivot of the business, um, we still had the direct business on and just to see sort of how the embedded business would take off. And within the first year we were able to sign a few partners and we were able to see growth coming from the embedded side through partners like housecall Pro and um, Boulevard. And we're able to just offer so much more access to capital in a really scalable way.

Speaker B: You know, talking about sort of scalability, when a brand sort of pivots their sort of core product, how do you as a marketer then manage that scale but without kind of like losing your identity is as a business and having your brand identity become lost in the weeds?

Speaker C: So that's a really great question. You know, when I first joined Pipe, that was one of the first things I did was really getting our brand positioning and messaging in place. And because we're such a young company that actually pivots quite quickly with, you know, how much we're shipping and how many different turns we're taking as a company. But I think one thing that always remains constant is our vision and our mission. And our mission is empowering financial freedom for business owners and through unbiased products, enabling them to grow. And that does stay constant and it does sort of serve as the North Star of our overall business strategy. And, and so even as we kind of pivot and may maybe make changes to the strategy, that mission stays constant. And everything that we say from our brand and messaging, um, needs to ladder

Speaker B: back up to that sort of speaking about brand, I mean, now that you sort of moved away from sort of serving SMBs directly and you're working with partners, is there a need for brand? And I suppose, you know, how do you then also make sure then you still have a presence and a purpose then as well?

Speaker C: Even as we've pivoted to the B2B 2B model, I think one thing remains true, is that we need to maintain trust, um, across both the partner side and the SMB side, especially when you're offering financial products. We have two distinct audiences today. We have the partners and we're influencing the decision makers of these, um, specific platforms to integrate our product. And then once they do, we also need to influence, you know, the SMBs and making them aware of the capital product and educate them on how that works. And so the set of value props for a partner and for the end merchant are going to be different. But they do ladder still ladder back up to us as Pipe, a financial services company who we really want to build trust with all both sets of customers and we really want to offer, you know, access in a really easy way for, um, for both sets of audiences.

Speaker B: I would like to dig into your learnings at, uh, Square. Right? You Know, and how is that sort of influence the decisions that you've made at Pipe and how has that helped you push, you know, forward the branding piece of Pipe, the acquisition piece. Really kind of great to hear about that. You know, that, that part of the journey for you.

Speaker C: One of my biggest learnings at Square is how to remain super customer focused in everything that we do. So, so when I started at Square in 2016, we were primarily just a payments business, you know, was still marketing the little White Reader, but over time it really expanded our uh, product solution to serve the nail salons, the restaurants, the retail owners, the professional services. And so as we sort of grew our services, it required us to partner across the organization to deeply understand all of these different vertical segments, you know, what their daily pain points are and how our solution could help them. And so kind of taking those learnings over to Pipe is that we are serving a broad set of SMBs but through different channel partners. So Boulevard serves the nail salons and um, the hair salons, while Housecall Pro serves the contractors and the plumbers and the roofers. And so as we're marketing our product to them, I think the use case of capital and the benefit of capital is pretty universal. But how the capital is perceived in different markets, in different industries and how they're actually being used is really different. And so being able to really understand the customers of our partners, I really do credit that to um, the broad sort of understanding that I had to have at Square.

Speaker B: I think then that is really nicely into, I suppose the question that, which is what's your marketing stack? You know, what does that look like at the moment? So what's your media mix? What are the channels that you're looking at? What does your team look like? You know, it'd be great to kind of grab a snapshot of that and um, dig into that a little bit more as well.

Speaker C: I think when I first joined Pipe, because we have that B2B2B model, I really wanted to establish and clarify the go to market motion for both partners and then the end SMBs. And so I actually have sort of two PMMs on the team leading the charge. One around sort of the partner Persona and one around the merchant Persona on the merchant side. It's pretty straightforward. We partner with the partners and really build a marketing, um, channel mix that aligns well with their marketing strategy. So you can imagine um, typical life cycle marketing initiatives like emails and banners and those are really going to be the most effective channels because they're serving the personalized offers that Pipe is able to generate at the time of need for the business users inside the platform that they're in every day. So they're used to getting emails from, you know, their provider like housecall Pro. But when they're actually in the platform managing their business, they're also being surfaced, um, and made aware of these offers. So those are going to be your, your, our sort of bread and butter in those channels. But we do partner with the partner marketing team at these partners to, you know, help integrate into their content plans and in their social plans as well. On the partner side, I think we deploy a very account based marketing and sales motion because I mentioned our criteria for our ICP earlier. There's only a set number of partners, even worldwide, that we could partner with today. And so we are really kind of narrowing the focus in that target audience list and really curating very personalized messages along with our BD team. And then the mix looks very different. I think we're really leveraging LinkedIn because we know that these decision makers are on that platform, um, a lot and trying to influence them with thought leadership and different types of content that's going to resonate. But on top of that, I would say events is a really big investment for us as well because at these industry conferences this is the time where people are really open to learning about new technologies and new solutions. And so I was at Money 2020 in Amsterdam last week where Pipe actually held an event and we were able to really connect more deeply with potential prospects at our accounts. On top of just meeting them at the conference.

Speaker B: Let's dig into events a little bit more.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And I don't think we've done that for a while on this podcast. And I think maybe that's because kind of where we are now so many years after Covid, right. You, uh, know, as an agency we kind of got going so during COVID and we were very, very much online. Do you think events are making a comeback? Let's start with that question. Do you think we sort of dialed away from them, you know, for a while and now they're making a resurgence, or do you think they were kind of always there?

Speaker C: I do think events is an important, um, consideration in your overall channel mix. Not because I don't think online is not effective, but I think that online and digital, um, formats can get very noisy. Whereas an in person event, you're still able to curate an experience and connect with somebody one on one, which is very difficult to do in the age of even just Zoom, because we're a fully distributed company as well. So I do think events and conferences and whatnot are a really important investment because it is an opportunity to connect on a deeper level with your customers or your partners. And that is just irreplaceable by digital.

Speaker B: How do you approach connecting, I suppose the offline event experience with the online experience on LinkedIn, for example, with every

Speaker C: event or in person initiative that we plan, I do try to capture the content and the takeaways from that offline component so that we can share that online later and it could be a piece of content that lives on.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker C: But I do think, you know, when we're curating some in person experiences, we are really trying to not only bring the right people into the room and have a really thoughtful discussion, but actually create sort of the themes and the overall messaging that we're trying to portray, uh, at these events. And so, for example, last week at Money20 20 when we held our first Sunday night event, we actually invited our partners, um, at Go Card list to come and actually do a quick, you know, Fireside chat with our team just to show sort of the benefit of why they partnered with Pipe and what that experience has been. And I thought that that was actually a really great discussion. And it, and it actually prompted, you know, good Q and A from the group and people talking to us about, you know, what was said during that chat afterward. And then we're actually taking that Fireside chat and really chopping it into different pieces of content that we can use for distribution afterward for anyone that wasn't able to join us in person. So that's an example of how I'm really trying to continue the message and being able to reutilize content in a lot of different ways.

Speaker B: How scalable do you think that is? I mean, money 2020 is a, it's a big event. It happens, you know, across the world sort of three times a year. So there's sort of three opportunities to do that. Is it possible to scale that any more than the events now? I mean, you know, how have you sort of approached that?

Speaker C: We do plan, you know, bigger initiatives around the big industry conferences, but there are some smaller industry conference events as well, smaller payments events. You know, even like Stripe Sessions has become such a big sort of tech conference in the Bay Area that there are still opportunities that when there is a gathering of a specific event that gets a group of, uh, professionals that may be in our icp, getting them to talk about something and what's coming in the industry I do think those are really important moments where pipe can show up. And we've done a few of these events now where we actually have a pretty dialed in playbook of what role demand gen plays, what role BB plays on how we actually run a successful event. So while not every event needs to be like a Money20 20 event, I do think there are many opportunities throughout the year to gather a group of people for um, a curated event.

Speaker B: I mean, would you say that events are um, um, probably the most successful campaigns that you're running or you know, are there other channels that, that actually, you know, are showing much better roi,

Speaker C: for example, events are more of like a spurt of activity. So we actually had a big spurt in May and October is really big in conference season as well. But our best always on channel is LinkedIn. We're always posting thought leadership content and really trying different types of formats of content to reach our decision makers. To me that's kind of table stakes evergreen things that need to be on. But when we have something to say or when there's actually a group of people getting together to talk about something, where I think this is an important moment to, to really show up, that's where I think event can play a really important role.

Speaker B: So let's drill in a little bit more into LinkedIn. In my view, I think it can be a really, really effective channel if it's used correctly. And I think broadly speaking, most brands don't, you know, they don't leverage it as best as they could and they're not using it correctly. So without kind of giving away your secret sauce or anything, what would be great is just kind of understand, you know, what does your strategy with LinkedIn look like from say, um, you know, on an organic perspective, a paid perspective, how you sort of bring those two things together and maybe the sort of types of content that you're promoting and posting on the channel as well.

Speaker C: We do have a good sort of organic and paid strategy on LinkedIn. On the organic side, I have Josh on my team who is really spitting out really awesome kind of editorial, thoughtful content on a regular basis. And that does sometimes feed into the paid strategy as well in terms of the types of content that we can utilize. But on the paid side, I think what's really neat about LinkedIn is that you can really target a very broad set of people in a specific company. And so because we are an account based marketing and account based sales motion, there's a set number of companies that we really want to be front and center, um, of. And to me that that means like you're hyper focused in targeting. There's a set of functions within that company that are in the web of decision making. And so we want to target people from partnerships to product to even engineering as they're kind of vetting our um, technical documentation and we want to get the right message in front of all of those different organizations. And so that's kind of how we're using LinkedIn today. I have um, a really excellent demand gen marketer Jay on my team who's actually set up so many of our tools as well so that we get really high intent activity, um, that we can track when somebody from LinkedIn actually comes to our website and visits a really high value page. And that really helps to signal to um, someone in the BD team that there's a lot of surgeon activity and a lot of interest in our product and that almost kind of primes them to reach out. So I do think having this very cohesive strategy that's really kind of fuels the action of our sales team is how, how we make that um, platform work for us.

Speaker B: There's one thing that you said, you said ensuring that you get the right messages in front of the, the, you know, these specific sort of job functions. Do you tend to go as far as breaking out the job functions into separate audiences and serve them individual messages or do you tend to sort of be a little bit more homogenous? I suppose it depends on audience size,

Speaker C: but I do think we do break out the messages to different audiences. So it's something that a product team cares about is going to be different than a marketing team versus a uh, technical team. And so we do have tailored messages, even down to the different functions at the companies.

Speaker B: Obviously everything ultimately then boils down into data because yeah, that's where, you know, that's where we are as marketers now. So Those that use LinkedIn correctly understand that it's not always going to immediately drive a lead on day one that you put a piece of copy or content out or an ad out. Especially with abm, there's going to be multiple touch points. So eventually they reach your site and then you know, you could have touch points there. Knowing that, how do you measure and I suppose what signals are you looking at to determine, you know, whether or not this piece of content or this specific campaign is performing well or not? You know, how are you approaching that?

Speaker C: I don't think that, um, with an account based marketing motion, I'm actually attributing, you know, how much is a cost per lead that's driven by marketing versus sales? I do think that's more in the world of like maybe on the SMB side, but on the account based marketing side, how I am really measuring the effectiveness of this platform is how many accounts am I able to engage and thoughtfully engage and meet this threshold of engagement and how wide is that coverage within each account. And so my goal is to make sure that every, everyone knows who pipe is and the value of pipe before they ever talk to anyone. And so it makes that conversation much easier and warmer. Um, when they do have that first conversation or even when they're starting to be in the space of buying that they already know who pipe is and what our benefits are. So that's how I'm measuring. It's a little bit softer than a, uh, clear roi. But I am always constantly measuring how many accounts am I engaging.

Speaker B: That's pretty much how I tend to sort of evaluate the, the, the ABM stuff I refer to as you calling, you know, counter engaging. I call it eyeballs. Yeah, I'm all about how many eyeballs can we get onto our brand and how many times can we get in front of them without, without fatiguing that audience. Whenever I speak with B2B marketers, definitely more early stage than mature, I would say one of the things that they kind of always come up against is, is they want to turn on some paid activity on LinkedIn. They see it as a lead generation tool, which it is to a degree, but, but not in a way that I think they think it is. They see it more as a performance channel. And then invariably what happens is, is that when they're then reporting into the C suite, they have to then I suppose justify uh, their spend. And actually, you know, it's been a couple of months and no, no callees have landed yet or no business has been closed or whatever, or even further down the line, um, when it's not that attributable. How have you kind of managed that conversation with I suppose the senior stakeholders? I mean you're a senior cycle yourself, but your counterparties in other roles when you're having to justify that spend in that budget and I suppose the activity that doesn't necessarily feel like it's contributing to the bottom line directly.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I will say like my spend is not a, uh, huge spend as my budget was at square, but I do want to make sure that when we're spending I'm able to articulate how effective it was. So in an, in addition to how, um, account engagement and sort of engage percentage. When we look at first meetings that our BD teams are booking, we want to see how many of those have been influenced by marketing. We're able to tie back, you know, how many, how many different messages were they able to see? Did they actually click on any of our emails once they actually became sort of a prospect that we can add them into our nurture flow? So um, that's how I'm able to see, justify, you know, how much further down funnel activities in my driving. Because I want to make sure that when our sales, our sales conversations start that, you know, they have been efficiently, insufficiently primed by my team.

Speaker B: Uh, about pipe, we're very much the same. I always sort of joke and say I think that my, my head of marketing has got the best CEO. Right. I never ask how many leads have been driven by like our uh, paid activity or anything at all like that. Like I said, it's all about eyeballs. And I'm like more interested with are we getting our message in front of the right people? And then to your point, are they then appropriately primed so that when we're ready to have or if they're looking for uh, the services that we provide or once we're having that conversation with them, when we reach out to them? It's not a cold conversation. It's a very warm, friendly conversation. And actually it's accelerated the, the pipeline effectively in the sales cycle as well at the same time. Right. So, um, yeah, yeah, definitely on um, on the same wavelength there in just switching streams a little bit. We've spoken a lot about B2B. I kind of want to just loop back and talk about the marketing that you're doing with your partners. Marketing in itself is difficult, you know, because there's that running joke that everyone knows how to do their job in marketing as well. Right. And that's difficult enough as it is to then add in a partner right in the center of that and then have to work with their entire organization. Because I think if you've got a great culture in your organization and everybody's sort of forthcoming and willing, marketing becomes a lot easier. But then if you add in then a partner who perhaps doesn't necessarily have the same culture, how does that impact, I suppose, your ability to deliver your message to the end users? And I think from the perspective of uh, logistically and almost operationally, but then also from like a brand perspective as

Speaker C: well, at the same time, I 100% agree with you. That has been one of the hardest parts about the job is that I have lost control of my marketing levers directly to the end customer who is using our product. But I will say that one of the kind of tenets of building a really successful partnership is having shared goals, right? So we have a partner success team where we are actually building out growth plans with our partners. And marketing is a really important lever in helping to reach that growth. So I think getting the buy in from the partners on the overall KPIs and program success is crucial to start even before you talk about marketing and then you add in the marketing stakeholders and really educate. And I think one of the value that, the main value that the pipe marketing team brings is that we are experts at this and we have seen what really works, you know, the types of messages, the type of drip sequences that you should implement and we're able to share a lot, a lot of those best practices with our partners for them to implement. I do think one area that I haven't cracked yet is getting all of the data in place because a lot of the campaigns are actually run through the partner CRM systems and their CRM systems and reporting is all a little bit different than what we're using today. And so gathering that data in a really consistent manner and being able to draw insights and draw benchmarks from it, that's still a work in progress for us. We have different SOPs that we have out to partners but everyone is working a little bit differently. So that is a major pain point that I haven't quite solved yet.

Speaker B: The honest pursuit of perfect data, um, is uh, yeah, I think every marketing, even companies of ah, all sizes like so looking back and sort of starting the agency and looking up at brands that some of which we now actually work with, that you see what's on the outside and then sort of going in to speak with them and seeing what's on the inside. What you realize is, is that they've still, they've got the same data problems as everybody else has and it's, it's just, you know, they've just got more bodies to throw at it and therefore ironically go slower. So noting that obviously you're you know, ultimately speaking you've got two customers, right, you've got your partners and then you've got the, the SMBs that you're serving that ultimately that that's what your product is for. So I suppose you, you kind of talked about not being able to get necessarily all the data out of the CRM, um, via partners. The next question for me then naturally is, you know, what, what line of communication do you have with the actual end user? Assuming that you do have a line of communication, you know, what does that sort of feedback cycle in that feedback loop look like? And then, you know, how are you leveraging that?

Speaker C: Yeah, so we do have a direct access point to the end customer, um, through our merchant support team. And so that is something that we offer all of our partners because, you know, being able to talk about capital, um, a ah, very highly regulated industry and requires a lot of sort of in depth knowledge, that's something that we're able to offer through Pipe that can be completely white labeled. So we have a team that sits in Atlanta today that takes on all, all of the support call and they can actually do proactive sales as well. Um, to answer kind of, you know, how I get that feedback loop, one of the things that we do at Pipe is we actually do this monthly call listening where anyone at the company can join and we actually sit together and listen to a curated set of calls from this merchant sales team and we're able to hear directly about our customers from the questions that they're asking, the workflows that they're asking this team to do and that can generate sort of product requests, but also just help us understand the pain points of these end SMBs a little bit more so that it could help tailor our pitch or tailor our marketing material. So I think that's something that's really important for us to continue to maintain as we scale is just staying really, really close to the end user on the partner side. I do think we do a good job at ah, synthesizing, you know, what are the different pain points. And we can see, even though it's an account based marketing motion, we do see different trends, um, that we're seeing between, you know, bigger platforms versus smaller vertical SaaS platforms, the what their objections are, what their pain points are. The team does a really good job at synthesizing all of that qualitative feedback so that we can, you know, develop a better pitch each time.

Speaker B: When you're B2B and you've got, you know, a limited number of data points, it's so important to go deep on the clients that you do have to really try and surface, you know, why have they chosen to work with you? But then also I think for us as a business as well, we've started now doing post pitch interviews with brands that haven't chosen to work with us. It's very hard to do that because you've got, it's like you know, they're telling you everything what they don't like about you. It's your worst nightmare really. Right. But actually by doing that it surfaced so much that we've been able to correct and we've seen almost like um, almost like an immediate improvement in our conversion rate in our pitches just by implementing and some of it's like really low hanging fruit, you know, the introduction of maybe one or two key slides that we didn't have in there before. So I think for anyone who's listening, whether you're, whether it's an agency or you're B2B fintech brand, I think going deeper on your partners and getting that feedback from the Morts and all, um, is hugely important. I think that kind of leaves us with almost like the quick fire questions. But before we sort of jump into that, I'd love to kind of just get a snapshot of kind of what's the outlook for Pipe over the next sort of 12 to 36 months?

Speaker C: I think it's really exciting at Pipe. I'm really excited to continue building here. You know we have more partners in the queue that we're going to be launching soon. That's really exciting and it will also take us much more global. So we launched in Canada earlier this year and we're going to um, launch in Australia later this year and a number of new countries next year as well. So that's one aspect that's really exciting. But also I talk a lot about our flagship product, our embedded capital product but we actually have a card and a spend management product coming soon as well. And so kind of transitioning from you know a hero product to a multi product solution is also really exciting as well and will, it will obviously need to change sort of our approach and overall umbrella, um, messaging um, from that aspect. But um, it's super exciting. There's a lot happening and so um, we're always going to be iterating.

Speaker B: Amazing. Um, well look, before I let you go, I'll do my quick fire round. So I need a handful of questions. What podcasts are you listening to right now or would you recommend to our audience?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I just started Possible by Reid Hoffman and Aria Finger and it's just taking a um, look at all of the practical applications of AI and how it could really improve our lives. I think there's a lot of negative connotations of like AI taking jobs and things like that but AI is really going to transform our lives. It's going my children's lives are going to look so different from what I grew up with. So it's really cool to see all the different applications.

Speaker B: And other than Pipe, um, what's your favorite fintech brand app, uh, or company that you tend to follow the most?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I would say Ramp is amazing to follow because of not only their business trajectory, but, but, um, we're users of Ramp as well. And I'm constantly just fascinated at how amazing their, their UI is and how delightful every experience with Ramp is. And so that's something that we always kind of look to as inspiration as well. It's like we want to create that ramp like magic, where it's so easy and removes all the headache.

Speaker B: What's the best bit of life advice you've ever received?

Speaker C: One of the things I learned earlier on in my career is don't try to be perfect. Just try, strive to be good enough. Because I do think earlier in my career I was really stuck trying to make everything perfect, the just the tiniest details, getting all the wording exactly right. But then, you know, as I grew in my career, I found that what really counts is whether or not you're making an impact. And all those small things are tiny details that don't matter as much. And so, um, that's kind of how I approach work today is like, you know, focus your energy on making things good when it matters, but making it good enough, you're never going to get that perfect answer to that. And striving for perfection is only going to slow you down.

Speaker B: It's good advice. And, um, my last question, my favorite question, which is, uh, what's one thing that I haven't asked that you perhaps think I should have asked?

Speaker C: I think it's really interesting to talk about how AI may disrupt marketing in fintech and what are the different use cases. That's something that I talk a lot about with the team and you know, I get asked in different industry contexts as well. But the short answer is I think it's going to make us so much better. I think we're getting much more deeper research, much better signals that's going to make marketing work even harder for us.

Speaker B: I agree with that. I think there's, I think the two big elements, uh, to some extent creativity. But efficiency, I think is the big thing. It's going to strip away a lot of the manual tasks and I think it's going to allow our teams to focus on the higher value stuff. Um, and I think the insights will be able to pull from the data that we can sort of implement into AI is. Is. I think that'll be huge.

Speaker C: I think it generates a lot of creativity too. I don't think it stifles creativity.

Speaker B: Yeah, not at all.

Speaker C: Uh, expands the boundaries of, like, where we're exploring as well. So I just think AI is going to make me a 10x better marketer 100% again.

Speaker B: Before we go on another podcast length rant about this. Yeah, I think being able to sort of extract the insights and then gathering the depth of research and data that you can from AI and then using AI to synthesize that data creates so many avenues for creativity.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then for me personally, it unblocks any form of writer's block, um, you know, because it gives you a bit of a kernel to kind of start off with. I think personally, it's. It's probably increased my output somewhere between 2 to 300%.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker B: So, um, yes. But anyway, I could, I could do a whole podcast on why I love AI.

Speaker C: Oh, sure.

Speaker B: M. Amy, it's been absolutely fantastic having you on. Yeah. Thank you very much.

Speaker A: The FML podcast is brought to you by by GrowthGorilla. To find out how our marketing growth experts can boost your fintech's growth, head to growthgorilla.co.uk and make sure to search for the FML podcasts in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere else podcasts are found. Don't forget to click Follow to ensure you don't miss any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at growthgorilla, thanks for listening.

Speaker B: Name.