Leave the Traditional PM Career Path Behind

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Everyday PM podcast. The podcast where we discuss project management principles for your everyday life. My name is Ann Campia. I am the founder and host of, uh, the Everyday pm. Um, and I'm so excited to welcome back to the podcast a very special guest and one of my favorite people, Brian Summons, who is the special guest senior inter internal consultant for strategy activation

Speaker A: at the Children's, uh, Hospital of Orange County. So Chalk Hospital.

Speaker B: Brian, you've been on the podcast before. It's been a minute. I'm so happy that we found time to reconnect and bring you back on Professional Journey. I know you and I have had some like, offline conversations to the point where we said, let's just bring this topic to the Everyday pm. Let's have a conversation about it. Because I'm sure there are project managers out there wondering, what do I do next?

Speaker A: So what, why don't we just dive

Speaker B: into it instead of just going into your introduction, Brian? Because we're going to talk about you and your role. So let's start with this. Many PMs follow the traditional corporate ladder within one organization. Um, you know, you could go project coordinator, project manager, senior pm, whatever that may be, but you chose to pivot into a strategic consulting role.

Speaker A: So can you walk us through that

Speaker B: aha moment when you realized the conventional PM path wasn't for you and what specific experiences or skills from your PM background became your secret weapons as a now strategic consultant?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me back.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Uh, it's been a while, so I'm glad to be back. Um, I think that that aha moment for me happened as I was thinking about my next step, um, kind of as a project leader, you know, um, as a project manager. Like you mentioned, there's different tiers. So you can be a pm, senior pm, um, you can go into program management and portfolio management. And I've kind of done all of those roles. And so, um, as I was in management, I think my next move would be to a director level role. And so, um, rarely what I noticed is it seems to be a cap, right? You cap out as a director and there's rarely project management officers, um, across the organization. Um, and so you kind of get pigeonholed into, um, being a director. So you'll be a director and then you'll go to your next role and it's a director of project management or a director of this or that. And for me, um, it just didn't sound appealing. And so, yeah, what I, what I did Know is that um, you can't just solely be execution focused. And maybe um, the aha moment for me was maybe you need to look at also being strategically focused.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And when you marry the two things together, you know, with a strategic focus and uh, project management, you get strategy activation.

Speaker A: Talk a little bit about the role itself for those that maybe have not heard of that title or how that would function internally.

Speaker C: Yeah, so internally our team is charged with um, bringing our strategic plan to life. And so my core audience and group of folks that I will work with are our um, initiative owners, um, at the VP level. So really um, working in partnership with them to understand, you know, what strategic things can we look at from a performance standpoint that is going to drive performance and also help us reach our goals and then holding them accountable, uh, to those things. So we identify a set of uh, tactics that we want to tackle within the fiscal year and um, assigning different milestones, KPIs, completion indicators, things of that nature, uh, where we're tracking the progress throughout the fiscal year and ensuring that the things that we intended to do get done. I also have a unique opportunity to jump into a couple of projects every now and then, um, as well. So um, the very highly visible, very strategic things that we're doing, um, when these things need course correction or if they need some consulting to get things back on track, I'm already kind of embedded within the project and I can step in and help to write the ship. Um, I'm also uh, afforded the opportunity to kind of stand up some committees and um, focus some of the efforts, ah, as it relates to committees and structure and things like that as well. So it's really ah, a dual purpose position where you can do a myriad of different things. You can um, solely be tracking the plan and to the plan and helping to develop the plan. You can jump into some projects and uh, right when they kind of need some direction and right the ship. And then you can also uh, be working to stand up some of the um, different committees and things like that and provide the structure and things uh, related to that. So it's really um, a position that allows you a ton of opportunity, ah, if I would say so.

Speaker A: It just sounds like such a fun role. I mean obviously you and I grew up in project management so you always kind of think like how do I add value? Where, where's my place in the organization? And um, some folks think, you know, that could be leading other project managers in that sort of supervisory role which you and I have kind of Both been there, done that as well. Um, some folks, you know, as you get further into your career and start to really open up, like you mentioned, what are the organizational objectives? How can I make that connection point if I'm just a pm? And I'm sure a lot of the folks in our community who are kind of in that interesting spot in their professional journey where you're trying to decipher for yourself, you know, what's the next step? Is it leading people that will satiate me or is it going to be, um, being that connection point kind of strategically, uh, to be able to flex not just your project management muscles, which is what you described.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You still jump back into projects every once in a while as well. Um, but then you get called in, you're the pinch hitter for something's off track, like Brian, what do we do? Or how is this particular project adding value to the organization? And you're that connection point. So it's such a beautiful journey that we make as project managers. And just hearing your side of the, you know, you, you did the, the um, um, management part of it, the leadership part of it. Now you're kind of, in many ways you're still doing that. But it's not just people, it's the organization, it's the objectives, it's the KPIs, it's the ROI, all the things that an organization would care about strategically. And you're that connection point. So cool. And I'm just happy that I got to watch and, and still getting to watch your journey through this. So, um, let's talk a little bit about. Now that you've clarified what you do as a internal strategic consultant is what's the biggest myth about transitioning from what we would call an in house pm, uh, to a strategic consulting role, um, something that you maybe wish someone had debunked for you earlier. And on the flip side of that, what unexpected challenge caught you completely off guard that traditional PMs considering this path should prepare for?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think uh, the biggest myth is that strategy work is really all about big ideas. I think, um, in reality, you know, strategy activation is really about clarity and alignment. And um, you know, most organizations, they don't struggle to come up with strategy. They really struggle to make it real. And so, um, you have different departments, they kind of interpret their priorities, uh, slightly differently and leaders are kind of aligning differently. You know, my group brings all of that together and so we kind of focus on the goals together, we create the goals together and uh, and we attack it that way and it's been, it's been really good um, seeing it happen that way. And I think um, you know uh, for me I think the biggest shift is like just really shifting away from execution focus and really moving into more of a strategic focus about the big picture. And we have this big strategy. How do we take little pieces of it and make sure that we accomplish all of the things uh, at the same time? Sure, sure.

Speaker A: And uh, you know, I know when you're consulting across multiple clients and industries, you know, there are certain patterns that you probably pick up and what we call anti patterns as well that maybe internal PMs like when you're embedded in that way at an organization might not be able to see. So can you share an example of how this outsider insider perspective has allowed you to solve a problem or unlock an opportunity that probably a traditional embedded PM might have overlooked? And also tagging onto that, how do you balance being the expert consultant while still remaining humble enough to truly understand each client's unique context?

Speaker C: Oh, that's a doozy. So I'll tackle the first part of it first. Um, it's really about seeing the whole organization, right versus um, just being in this bubble. I remember um, as a project manager working in it, um, we're doing really impactful projects across the org, but just never really getting to see the impact of it or never really understanding how this one project connects to a larger strategy M or um, you know, you would hear like this is going to improve this or improve that. Now being at the, the upper level, right, you can see the whole organization and you see these projects happening all kind of simultaneously but also how they all connect uh, to this larger strategy or initiative that we're trying to push forward, um, which is impactful for me. And I think you know, in hindsight if I could um, if I could go back or if I could even share um, with people, I would say step outside of the projects sometimes and really understand or uh, visualize what it's, what it's actually doing and see the fruits of your labor. You know, depending on your organization, depending on kind of the tempo of things and how, how things are moving may not always get the time. In fast paced environments you're doing one project after another project after another project. So as you complete 1, 2 more are coming in. Um, but in this role that I'm in now, um, multiple projects can be going on all at the same time in different domains and you get to see them kind of all going together and really see the Fruit of all the labor. So it's been a, ah, really eye opening experience for me.

Speaker A: A, uh, curve, curveball question here, Brian. Uh, that I did not tee up for you prior to us getting on and recording this episode is um, let's talk a little bit. Thank you for that response by the way. Let's talk a little bit about the tears, right? Because it feels like a role like you're in requires some level of experience, uh, being able to make those connection points, um, being able to step outside of what typically would be like your tactical day to day execution.

Speaker B: Pm.

Speaker A: Um, my question is, can a project manager just jump into a role like yours? Like what are some of the things that you would see, let's say on a job description, uh, some of those requirements that project managers want to try to build on. Now if they're listening to this episode and they're like, yes, I want to do what Brian does, like I want to, I want to do exactly that. How do they get there? Could you paint the picture or maybe a quick roadmap of what that could look like for a project manager?

Speaker C: I would say the first thing uh, to do is really start to think outside of the box. Don't, don't limit yourself into, okay, I'm just doing this and this is all I'm doing. I think in my role I rely very heavily, and most project managers do, on relationships and building strong relationships. I've accomplished so much just leveraging the relationships. So, um, can people step from PM right into consulting and kind of doing strategy work? Absolutely. I think project managers can do anything. I um, think that you have to get your mindset right and it helps when you're doing stuff like um, looking at things with a strategic eye. So when you're, when you're managing the project, don't just focus on this project, but focus on the downstream implications of the project. Focus on those KPIs and understanding how do these tie back and what do they tie back to. Ask those probing questions to find out more. Um, talk to your leadership and let them know, hey, I'm interested in and having more of a strategic view of projects and not just being solely focused on execution because I think people can't read your mind. Right. And I think, um, in the job market a lot of the times, you know, we're trained to just work hard and when you work hard, things will just naturally come your way and I can absolutely tell you you'll just be working hard. Um, and then ultimately maybe even a little teed off. Yeah, Things don't naturally just come your way. So I think um, you know, being vocal and advocating for yourself, looking at things with a uh, larger lens, being strategic asking, okay, yeah, we're tracking these KPIs, but what are they tied to? What are the downstream impacts if we don't do this project, what are we overall trying to solve? How does this connect to the organizational strategy? And when you're asking questions like that, people prick their ears up and they want to know like, uh, why are you inquiring about things like that? Because it's just not naturally what most PMs do. They're focused on what scope, time and budget. And so I think even PMI is shifting away from looking at just those benchmarks, uh, for project success. And they're looking at different things about how you can deliver and measuring delivery. Right. And so as we all shift and change our focus, if you're interested and pivoting and going in a different direction because you want to become a more well rounded leader and you want to have a strategic uh, lens, those are some of the things I would recommend to do.

Speaker A: And then ultimately you get shit done. You get the uh, absolute part out of the way too. So alongside what Brian just mentioned in terms of there's a path for you and this is what you should be signaling and looking out for and um, understanding of how the value add is there for this type of, type of role. We also then flex our PM muscle even in this type of role, which is Brian will still get the work done. He'll still make sure whatever needed to get done and the connection points and the alignment get done. So it's, you get a little bit of everything. So I'm not ah, going to say I'm jealous of where you're at right now Brian, but I am super proud to know you and know that this type of position can exist for our community. And so for folks listening to this, you know, listen into what Brian was saying in terms of how he described the role. You may not see this role as uh, listed. Right. It may be titled something differently. But look for some of those um, terms that Brian was using in terms of how he's described his role at his organization and the even crazier thing about what you get to do. And the beauty of it is that you still get to be an internal consultant. Right. Which is very, very different, which we didn't decipher that in this episode, but which is in some ways vastly different than if you were to bring what most people know Consultants for which is this external party that kind of comes in and does that sort of consulting. So, um, I guess maybe to tie up this conversation, maybe we end with that, which is, what is it about you being internal, facing like an internal employee to your organization as a consultant that makes it different than if we were looking at roles, PM roles that were our strategic roles that were kind of external coming into an organ organization.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think the superpower is that we know the business.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker C: We know the business, we know the people, we know the business. And so we can dive in, in things that are a little bit foreign, leverage relationships, and turn things around very quickly because we, we understand the business, we understand the mission, we understand the priorities, and so. Ah. And we understand the culture. I think, um, a lot of your external consulting revolves around changing a lot of those things.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, you know, internally I'm leveraging a lot of those things to just move things forward. And so, um, I think that's actually the superpower, if I were to think about it. And, um, you know, in my mind, typically, you know, strategies don't really fail because of bad ideas. Uh, in my mind, I think about it, they typically fail because of unclear, uh, priorities or disconnected execution. And that's exactly what I'm there for, to clear up the priorities so that we can focus on the things that are most important and then connect the execution to ensure that everything that we set out to do that we're actually doing it, and then we're reporting out, and we're reporting out on it and making sure, uh, that it's visible to the rest of the organization. So I think, honestly, uh, that's the superpower.

Speaker A: If I were to say, incredible, Brian, time has flown already and I'm over here grinning because I'm like, what do you want to be when you grow up as a pm? And I want to say, I want to be Brian Summons M. So for folks listening and want to continue the conversation. I know, Brian, you've mentored a ton of. A ton of PMs in our community as well and just helped clarify that path for people. Where can they find you online?

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, LinkedIn is like my playground. I'm there all the time. You can find me Brian summons, PMP, uh, on LinkedIn and happy to connect with you. Send me a message. We can connect and talk about a host of topics. So looking forward to it, everyone.

Speaker A: Find yourself, uh, a colleague, a friend like Brian. We are consistently just watching each other's career growth and cheering each other on. And I think everybody needs that as part of the project management community. Uh, for folks that want to continue the conversation with me, you can also find me on LinkedIn, uh, by my name. I'll make sure all the appropriate links are dropped into the description of the podcast. So, um, for folks that want to continue to listen to the Everyday PM Podcast, we are available on all of the podcasting platforms and make sure to, like, subscribe, whatever you got to do to make sure that we feel and hear your support of this episode. So that will do it for Brian and I on this installment of, uh, the Everyday PM Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next time, take care.

Speaker C: RA.