The Digital PR Playbook That Earns High-Authority Links (Most SEOs Never Learn)

Edward Sturm: Ashish Kakkar, we are talking about digital PR and link building on this episode of the show, and you sent me a really cool pitch and I'm like, "Let's do it. This sounds exciting." So thank you for coming on the pod Aashish Khakhar: Thank you for having me, Edward Edward Sturm: Can you share your background before we start? Aashish Khakhar: Sure.

I started doing SEO for, I think it was, um, it was a personal blog of mine. I just wanted to see whether or not I could make any internet money back in the day just as I graduated university. So I set up a little recipe blog, and from there I realized that was a terrible niche to get in because you can't monetize it. People just come, they take a look at the recipes, then they just leave.

Um, also building traffic back then was a lot easier, but now once you're actually trying to get into any niche that's worth any value, you always have to try to build your authority through link building. So that's how I started. And because I was doing everything by myself, I was always looking for ways in order to build links without paying, because I always felt that to be a little bit rough. So I started off doing reactive PR, and then over time I started understanding how people get cited in different publications, and that's what led me to build - to set up active PR, which is now currently known as digital PR Edward Sturm: Okay, talk about the differences for people who don't know.

There's a lot of beginners who listen to this podcast as well, and there's also, uh, like just so many people with their own businesses who don't have tremendous link building budgets and they want to get good links themselves. So yeah, start with like the differences Aashish Khakhar: Okay. So reactive PR is when you are literally reacting to when someone's asking you a question. So think of anything that's in the news, say the reflecting pool, um, issue that's happening currently in Washington State, and, uh, there is some issue with the water.

So consider that a journalist is told by the editor that you have to write an article on this or that subject. So if you're the journalist, you're going to have to get about water, the height of the pool, the length of it, uh, why this is a good or bad idea. So automatically, they're gonna have to find either people who know about this subject, so they'll have to find, uh, pool developers, or they're gonna have to find pool cleaners, or they're going to have to find someone who has some experience in water filtration and so forth.

So if you are actually running a business in the scenario, uh, where you are a pool cleaner or you are an HVAC company of some sort, or you are a water filtration expert, this is where your expertise comes in. So journalists come in, they ask questions, they try to verify that this information is correct, and you respond to them. That's how you're reacting to them. And that is pretty much one of the easiest ways in order to get coverage in newspapers and magazines, in government institutions, in educational institutions like universities, and that's how you would get started.

It costs nothing other than your time and your expertise, and if your, pitch is correct and your answers are correct, there's a good chance you could get quoted This method of marketing is so effective I had to make sure it wasn't against Google's rules before I kept using it. It's a form of SEO I call compact keywords. Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up articles to answer questions, how, what, when, compact keywords focuses on putting up dozens of pages that sell to searchers who are actually looking to buy.

These pages rank on Google and convert so much better than normal that when I discovered this years ago, I couldn't believe this was allowed. It's less work too. The average compact keywords landing page is only four hundred and fifteen words. Compact Keywords is a thirteen hour deep course on getting sales with SEO.

A customer said, "Compact Keywords contributed to a four thousand dollar sale within the first six weeks." Another customer said, "Give it to a junior employee, have them follow it exactly as Edwards laid out. You don't have to do anything, and you're going to gain a six-figure SEO level employee just by having them go through this course." Compact Keywords is about setting up an SEO funnel that brings you sales for years and years and years.

It works with AI, it's less work than traditional SEO, and it makes way more money. You can get it now at compactkeywords.com. to the podcast Edward Sturm: I'm already getting super excited from this conversation.

This is like, th- this is my bread and butter. This is the stuff that I find the most fun, that I really, really love. Um, and, and then you mentioned active PR Aashish Khakhar: Yes. So in reactive PR, you are literally fighting against hundreds of other people who all want the same kind of goal.

They're all trying to win that magical great Edward Sturm: No, you said i- in, in, in active, ac- active PR Aashish Khakhar: Yeah. So that, in reactive PR, that's where you're trying to fight against hundreds of other people who are trying to get the Edward Sturm: yeah. Okay, the difference. Aashish Khakhar: yeah.

but in active PR, this is where you create your own content, you create your own story, and then you pitch it to a journalist or a media agency or any other kind of publication. Because you're going to be the only one, there's a lot less competition in that scenario. So it's usually helpful if you actually make the content valuable enough that people and those journalists and their readers would find valuable and that they would share it, or they would read it, and they would cite it.

So that's how active PR pretty much works in a nutshell Edward Sturm: You call it active PR or pro- proactive PR? Aashish Khakhar: Um, I call it active because, uh, I think of it as the difference between reactive to active, but I suppose proactive would work as well. Um, but I've just been using that. And digital PR usually encompasses both active and reactive, or I guess in your case, proactive and reactive.

Uh, most people tend to know the reactive part, which is using HARO. Um, uh, let me think of some others. SourceBottle or Qwoted or Cision, which was c- then turned out to be Connectively and then went down and then got bought out by HARO again. So Edward Sturm: back to Connectively, which is pretty funny.

Aashish Khakhar: this is beautiful. I love how everything switches and comes back and forth Edward Sturm: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, no, it's Featured, Featured bought HARO, and then Featured rebranded as Connectively, and Featured turned into, like, an AI reactive PR platform Aashish Khakhar: Correct.

Edward Sturm: Yeah Aashish Khakhar: yeah, I tend to not use reactive PR as much these days. I think active PR is a lot better, especially because there are many use cases or there are many companies out there who don't usually have, the kind of opportunities that you'd be able to find that journalists are gonna ask about. So, for example, if there's a company that's in the paper industry or something, th- that, that doesn't seem as, as interesting. Or I'm not gonna say interesting, but there are not gonna be as many queries out there by journalists for something related to paper in comparison to, say, the weather, to psychologists, to say, skincare experts and so forth Edward Sturm: Yeah.

Which, so which one, so which, which is more, which is easier and which is more effective with, uh, reactive PR and proactive or active PR? Aashish Khakhar: Well, if you're comparing both of them, I would think for a small business owner who does not have the time to create a topic, reach out and do active PR, reactive PR is something which is a very good starting point for them. That, that way they would know how to actually structure their pitches, how to write things in such a way that it's quotable, that journalists would be able to accept their, their ideas and their input, just give them a platform to at least give their, uh, to give their content out there.

Once you get past that hurdle, I really think active PR is a lot better because as I said, you don't have as much competition, and then you can actually kind of tailor your content and your pitch more towards what your product, service, or what your data or tool actually is about Edward Sturm: You know what it is, Ashish? It's, uh, it- with the, the links that you get from proactive PR versus reactive, the links actually, with proactive PR, you get more referral traffic because those links tend to be more about your business or your brand.

Whereas the reactive PR, it might be something similar to, like, a citation. Like, this expert from this business, but no one's r- not as many people are gonna click on that business because you're giving a quote and it's not about your business, right? Aashish Khakhar: And it's… Yeah, that's correct. And it's not only that, it's just that whenever you're doing reactive PR, you can sometimes have multiple people being pushed into the same content piece, so the link value gets diluted because there are multiple links going out.

It could also be links going to the homepage versus the author page, and you have no, uh, you've got no control over the anchor text. It could be your name, it could be the business name, it could be according to or so forth. But in, in proactive or active PR, you can sort of massage it a little bit more. You can actually call it a study by and then the brand name, or according to the brand name, and it could be, uh, could be actually numbers or details.

So like say 57% of, um, algae bloomed over the course of two weeks or so forth. So giving numbers over there allows for different, um, uh, different, uh, for a much greater variation anchor text, which is always fun Edward Sturm: Yeah, and to be fair, I've gotten incredible links from Reactive PR with, like, Source O' Sources or Help A Reporter Out or Featured, and I have seen rankings increase the next week. I've seen immediate results. I've gotten great links from Reactive PR.

Can you share, um… I, I'm sure you have, like, so many great stories, so can you share campaigns that you worked on that shows what digital PR looks like in practice, and then the value that it has on SEO? Aashish Khakhar: Sure. So I did one for a client who was in the, uh, how do I say this? It's a little bit of a gray niche, but they were buying and they were offering YouTube comments, uh, Twitter followers, uh, YouTube views, Reddit comments, and so forth.

So what we ended up doing is that we had to come up with an idea that was relevant enough and that, that other publications would always be interested in. So what we ended up doing was creating a piece of content about, um, TikTok and, uh, its effect on teenagers. So we made a study, uh, we actually researched as much as we could online, and then we created an infographic, and we actually created a piece of content that went onto the site. Uh, so the content actually covered the, the age of the teenagers, how often they spent on the app, uh, what they ended up doing, which countries had the most number of, uh, teenagers which were actually on TikTok, as well as the change over the years.

Um, so what we ended up doing was we ended up pitching it out to a number of publications, and the publications that we pitched them out to, we used different pitch methodologies. So in one of them, we would say that these are the kind of things that teenagers are looking at on TikTok, and this is what you can do to stop it in your tracks. So we thought that would be a very good thing for parents to look at, for teachers, for psychologists, and so forth. What ended up happening is we ended up getting maybe five or six links, and many of those links actually ended up getting their own links.

So it ended up becoming its own sort of tiered link-building strategy. So it got onto Times of India, which is a DR 91. It got onto worldhealth.net.

And then from the Times of India publication, we actually got th- that publication, that page got links from Movie Guide and a bunch of other different places. So that was always very interesting. Um, I, I found that fascinating. And then after that, we started doing it for multiple other clients, mostly in the health and wellness niche Edward Sturm: Wait, wait.

So dude, did, you, you, have you seen this show before? Aashish Khakhar: I have Edward Sturm: Okay. So, like, you know that this is a podcast full of, like, practitioners and people who… We, like, we don't care about gray niches. We wanna know how stuff was done.

So you're saying this was tiered link-building and it happened organically, or did you Aashish Khakhar: Organically. Edward Sturm: massage it a little bit? Aashish Khakhar: I did have to massage it. So the content itself was that good that once Times of India actually got the link, um, got… Well, they actually added coverage for that topic.

They added a link which said, "A study by brand name," and it went over there. Then Movie Guide actually picked that up, and Movie Guide gave a link to Times of India. So the client ended up getting not only direct links, but it also ended up getting tiered backlinks. Most of it still ended up going to the Times of India page, but it was still good.

I was very happy with that Edward Sturm: Did you see a, an effect on rankings? Aashish Khakhar: For that page, I did not see a great effect, but they did end up adding internal links from that page towards your money page for TikTok followers or TikTok services. And I did see increased traffic to that, but I don't know whether or not that converted to actual clients as of yet because I don't have access to any purchase data. But I did see an increase in two things.

One was ranking position, and second, that the overall site got more queries on Google Search Console for terms including, um, the term TikTok, obviously. So if you compared it to prior, uh, the piece of content being published on their site right after that, there was a gap. There was a significant gap, actually, around thirty percent or more in keywords Edward Sturm: That's what's up. That's awesome.

Yeah, you don't have to share revenue for clients. I, I don't expect you to know that. But like, uh, the ranking increases and things that you can see, sharing those results definitely makes your - uh, the, the campaigns that you can share, your case studies a lot more impactful. And, uh, yeah, that… So, so what's your approach?

You make, you make the piece of content, you're doing proactive PR, you have some sort of like data study, infographic, something else, linkab- some sort of linkable asset. This would be a linkable asset. And then how are you finding the journalists to pitch, to pitch, and how are you writing the pitches? Are you using AI?

Are you using mass emailing? Are you using an email address that 301 redirects to the real emo- email address? Like break everything down that you are doing. Aashish Khakhar: Okay.

So we already went into topic ideation. What do we need Edward Sturm: no. no. Yeah, we'll cover, we'll actually, we'll cover topic ideation, like, in, in detail I think later in the episode.

But I want to hear, like, this is, like, the real nitty-gritty stuff of this Aashish Khakhar: Okay. uh, in order to build up the media list, what we ended up doing is that we went on Muck Rack. We took a look at all of the journalists who Edward Sturm: Talk about Muck Rack for people, for people who don't know what Muck Rack is Aashish Khakhar: Okay. So Muck Rack is a database of all journalists around the world.

It actually covers what - where the journalist works, whether they're a freelance writer, whether or not they're employed by their media institution, and what kind of content they write. So certain people, they tend to write only about a certain kind of beat. In a beat, in terms of media, it's a kind of a niche. So, uh, journalist who usually writes about, say, women issues is not going to write about tech or auto or business or so forth.

Uh, so what we ended up doing is that we went on to Muck Rack, and we looked for all pieces of content that were written, which included the terms Facebook, which included the term social media, Instagram, teenagers, and so forth. Once we got all of those pieces of content, uh, which were published and the names of the journalists who actually wrote them, we stacked them all into a giant Excel or a Google Sheet list, and then we used Hunter in order to find all of those emails directly for each of those journalists.

Edward Sturm: Explain Hunter Aashish Khakhar: it. is an email verification tool. So example, if you're looking at a certain, uh, website and you want to know who actually, um, uh, I'm not gonna say who owns the website, but who are the people who have emails associated with that website. So once you actually put in, say, the website, let's say if we put in Edwardsturm.

com, you should be able to find the emails which are actually associated with that, uh, website. So it might be Edward@edwardsturm.com or info@edwardsturm.com or sales@edwardsturm.

com. With that, we try to find whichever emails are most relevant towards that person, in this case, the journalists, the journalists' names, and then we added them to the next media list. So over time, we start off with, say, like hundreds of journalists, and then once we actually get their emails, it ends up we tend to check them, we tend to verify them, then it actually gets down to, um, to a smaller list. Uh, so that's how we build up our media list.

We usually focus on journalists who have written about this in the first - in the last, like, sixty to ninety days, and we feel that this data is fresh enough or valuable enough that they might want to either update their old articles or to actually write about this piece of content. Edward Sturm: Dude, this is amazing. I'm already, I'm like, I've, I've… This is, it's such a good episode so far. This is like, Aashish Khakhar: Yeah?

Edward Sturm: you know, I'm, I'm, I'm already, I'm already hyped because, like, I have, like, lots of guests who will come on and they won't give tangible how-to deep breakdowns like you are giving, giving, and it's, it's so great. All right, so, so you, you've compiled your, your media list y- in a, in Google Sheets or Microsoft Excel. What do you, which one did you say you're using? Aashish Khakhar: I tend to use Google Sheets Edward Sturm: Okay.

And, and so yeah, you, so you have a list of, is it… W- what are like, walk me through w- what the columns look like. First name, last name, email address? Aashish Khakhar: Pretty much. First name, last name, email address, publication, and last article which was actually relevant.

So what we would do is that we would make a generic pitch that would be suitable for everyone, and all we'll have to do is switch out the name of the journalist, their last pu- their last article which was published, and then we would write something along the lines of, "Dear journalist, um, uh, we wanted to showcase a piece of data that we ended up, uh, that we submitted for this, for this client." And then we'd give a link to the data, and then we would showcase that, uh, perha- "We enjoyed reading your past article on," and then we put the article name, "and we want to know whether or not this would be of interest to you," and so forth.

And within that actual email, we would actually put in a couple of bullet points which actually cover the kind of data that we feel that they would need. So for each email that's sent out, we try to tailor it based upon how that journalist tends to write their data. So certain journalists, they like to put in a large number of statistics data. So that's when we could say that 40% of teens tend to use TikTok, and they end up watching clips of TV shows or so, or so forth.

we always try to make something very significant and, uh, special in the subject line. We don't use AI for this. We just tend to write whatever we feel would be enough interesting enough that we can cause them to actually click and open up the email. And when we're sending out these emails, we use BuzzStream.

But however, there are multiple other products on the market such as PitchBox or Ninja Outreach. So for the other people who don't know what BuzzStream or what these other programs are, is that these are mass emailing tools out there which are specifically meant for outreach purposes. With that, you can actually create workflows where you can send a primary email or the first email in a sequence, and then if they don't answer, you can actually create a follow-up email that can be sent after three or four days, and then another follow-up email which can be sent two or three days after the second email.

these are called workflows. So what we ended up doing, we tried to go as possible in the media list. So certain media publications are on the East Coast versus the West Coast. We try to do things such that when the emails are sent for those on the East Coast, we try to send it at around 11:00 a.

m. Eastern Time. For those on the West Coast, we try to do it for around 11 or 12 p.m.

, 11 a.m. or 12 p.m.

we- um, Pacific Time. And then we just send it off. Uh, because we try to make each pitch granular and relevant as possible to what these journalists actually wrote about in the past, or at least in the near past, we find that this methodology is actually effective than just sending out a generic pitch to everyone. Um, additionally, the, the problem with this process in which I ended up seeing and different sort of nitty-gritty stuff which many people probably won't say, is that the win rates are honestly very, very low.

However, the point is that you always have to create new content. This is also good for your own sites because you're trying to build up topical authority at the same time. You're trying to show relevance because this is something that your site is offering, and you continue to do that. So I've been doing this for weeks and weeks at a time.

So our methodology is to create a topic, and we create a piece of content, and we send it out once a week, and we continue doing that until we hit our metrics. Usually, our KPIs are around five to 10 links per client, and we try to either put it onto one article. If that doesn't work, then we try to put it onto multiple articles that we push out Edward Sturm: How are you charging? Aashish Khakhar: Depends on the client.

Um, so certain niches are a lot easier than others. Uh, gray niches, uh, iGaming niches are a little bit more difficult. But again, it depends upon the client whether or not they're ready for us to create the kind of content. So for example, surveys, they cost a lot more because we actually have to survey at least 2,000 people.

They - and journalists, they don't really like, uh, services like SurveyMonkey. We'd actually have to use something a little bit more refined such as what, what they're used to, such as YouGov. so all of these kind of things tend to influence the price. But let's just say it starts from, say, $5,000 for a campaign, and we try to hit between five to 10 links depending upon the niche.

Certain niches obviously you would know are a lot more difficult. Um, but that's usually how we do it Edward Sturm: And so you said you have columns first name, last name, email address, Aashish Khakhar: Yeah. publication, the Edward Sturm: the, similar article, and, and so but then you're… And then you have, like, basically it's, it's two parts of the email that you send. You have the template portion, and then you have the customized portion.

So do you have any extra columns that help with the customized portion, or are you actually manually going into their articles to look at what they're writing? Are you using AI for this? How are you doing this? Aashish Khakhar: So BuzzStream, which is what we tend to use, they actually have, um, an extension which fits onto Chrome.

What that allows for you to do is that whenever you're trying to send an email out, it actually opens up a little sidebar on your, on your window, and on the left you can actually see the content which they wrote, and on the right will be where your, where your email draft would be. So that's where you can actually see where the, uh, journalist's name is there, the name of the publication is there, the name of the article is there, and then once we actually scroll on the left, at the same time we're actually writing the email or fixing up the email on the right.

And then we actually - That way we're actually catering to that particular journalist and writing exactly what we feel is something that they would need. So in a way, everyone starts off with the same, pitch, but we tailor it for every single w- uh, journalist out there Edward Sturm: And, and how are you sending the emails? W- like, at, at, uh… Are you using a different email address? And, and are the e- do the emails, does… How do emails get warmed up so they're not going to spam?

Walk me through all of that Aashish Khakhar: Oh, wow. Okay. So, uh, when - So first of all, we tend to use our own, uh, branded domain in order to send it out. Edward Sturm: Wow Aashish Khakhar: and yeah, so we don't try to use the client's domain for this because it would take a long time for it to warm up, and clients are usually not, um, open to us allowing us to use their email to send it out.

Uh, ideally, I would have liked to have used something like media for the client's domain, like media@theclient.com or something, but we just tend to use our own, and we use our own people on that. So if I'm sending it, it would say ashish@ourwebsite.com, and that's when it would be sent out.

now in Edward Sturm: How do you, prevent emails from going to s- from going to spam? Aashish Khakhar: We use a warm-up service. And so we use, there are a bunch of them out there. They're all decent.

But over time, because they continue to rotate through the exact same inboxes that each warm-up service uses, we use one for around a month or so, then we switch to another one, and then we switch to a third one and so forth. Edward Sturm: Can you recommend the services? Aashish Khakhar: I wouldn't say that all of them are great, but you can use a bunch of them. I personally use, um, Warmly and there's MailToaster.

Those two are - have been decent so far. I did try to set up my own using, uh, GMass, but it also didn't work out well. So from what I've been able to read and understand about these warm-up services, there are a couple of things you need to actually have. You need to see that people actually open the emails, they flag them, they sometimes respond to them, and that's a little bit difficult to be done, uh, by yourself unless you have access to a huge number of emails out there.

And none of those emails need to be flagged as well. They also need to be across different providers, so it can't just Gmail. It has to be out-Outlook, it has to be on Yahoo, it has to be on company domains, it has to be on different IP addresses. So you - I would strongly suggest using multiple warm-up services one after the other, and then doing your own tests.

So you send it off to people that you know. You ask them to see whether it falls into the primary folder or into the promotions tab. This is for someone who's using Gmail or if it's on Outlook. You have to also ask them that if it ever falls into spam, to drag it manually and put it into the primary inbox and continue doing this for a few weeks before we actually ever send it out.

And the warm-up services, they usually start off from zero emails to one or two, and then at the end of, say, a month or so, it hits around thirty to forty emails per day, and then you continue rotating through the different ones. Um, that's how we tend to warm up our inboxes for sending Edward Sturm: How many domains do you have for, for sending? And then how often do you find, like, a domain is just trashed and you can't use it anymore 'cause it's just always going to spam?

Aashish Khakhar: I suppose we've been fortunate. We use two domains. Um, one of the domains is just doing a direct freeze or a redirect to the other. And, Edward Sturm: Wait, say, say that again.

Say that again. It was a bit unclear. You had a, you had a Aashish Khakhar: so, so we have only two domains, and one of the domains just freeze or redirects to the other. So if anyone actually wants to visit our site, uh, they type in the domain and it, uh, it ends in .

biz. It then just directly freeze or redirects to a .com version, they're able to see that right there. Um, we've been fortunate that it does - it hasn't burnt us because we're very careful in verifying the emails and making sure that we don't send out that go to, uh, spam or dead inboxes.

In fact, whenever we do get any, um, information that some of these emails have bounced back, we automatically add those emails to a blacklist such that we never actually try to push or target those kind of emails again. In some cases, if we see two or more emails which come up from the same domain, which have actually been flagged as, uh, as, uh, mailer-daemon emails such - because they've not actually been received, we try to avoid sending it to that inbox moving forward, 'cause we just want to be sure that our domain lasts as long as possible.

Um, I find that would be a lot more cost-effective in the long run, and I do not want to go through multiple different variations of our domain, uh, in a .biz, .info, .net, and so forth, just in order to freeze or un-redirect it.

I really don't think it looks nice. Um, so that's how we've been doing it. Edward Sturm: Yeah, that's the worst. It's definitely the worst part of, like, y- you wanna have fun putting out, making cool content, d- uh, pitching journalists, getting the links.

The, the warming up the emails is, like, the most tedious part. And, and, and so you said your churn is, your churn for domains is very low Aashish Khakhar: Yes. So we've been doing this for couple of years, and we're still only at, I think, four domains until now. So it's always a main domain and a spare, and then those two others died, and then we're just been using the third one, and it's still okay Edward Sturm: How do you keep, uh, how do you keep emails from not sounding like generic pitches?

So I get a million pitches every day for this podcast, and, uh, they all sound the same. It's, it's the same exact template, and actually I've wondered what service people are using for it. I should ask. I don't know why I haven't asked.

But, uh, um, the, the template is always the same. "Oh my God, I listened to this specific episode, and it was so insightful, especially the way that you talk about this." And it's all the same. It's all like, it's all… Aashish Khakhar: it, it Edward Sturm: Yeah.

Aashish Khakhar: very fake. Edward Sturm: Well, no, it is very fake. It's literally, it's literally AI, and then it's three paragraphs. The first paragraph is, "I listened to this episode.

It was so insightful." The second paragraph is the pitch, and, uh, uh, like the person who, who's gonna be speaking is in the pitch. And then there's like a third paragraph, which i- which I never really get to, but it, I think it's like usually, uh, m- more that they can talk about. But yeah, it's all the s- it's the same exact… And, and, and I get m- multiple of these emails every day, and it's the same exact template, and I wonder what people are using.

I don't know why I haven't asked. I really need to ask Aashish Khakhar: So that's the thing. Like I - when I started off with this, I was having issues with people not responding, and I did realize it was our pitch. So I ended up doing what anyone else sh- would have or should have done, would have been to, uh, go online and research.

So BuzzStream has a great blog which actually gives a breakdown of the ideal number of characters in a subject line, what kind of open rates you get by using these kind of pitch formats, what kind of bullet points or how many bullet points you would add, how many pictures you would add, how many links you would add, and so forth. And the exact same kind of data, uh, is shown across other providers such as GMass, such as PitchBox, such as Ninja Outreach, and you can find so many details like this also on YouTube.

Over time, we ended up, uh, developing sort of like our own strategy where we needed to, um, make sure that someone would actually read this. So what we would do is that we would send it off to, uh, my aunts and uncles just to see whether or not they would actually open it. Because if it's interesting for them to open it and they're jaded because they've been seeing all these kind of spammy emails for like years and years and years, if they're able to open it and they see it sort of interesting, then I think, "You know what?

We've got something that we can work with. Let's, let's try to send it out and see what open rates are like." And then we try to tweak it and so forth. So we never send out the entire pitch, uh, to, and blast it off to, uh, the entire let - uh, the entire set of journalists.

So we, when, whenever we make a pitch, we try to break it down into as many small, uh, as we can in order to test what our open rates are, whether people are clicking on the links and so forth. This is the only way, because if you, if you try to make it, you try to, um, how do I say this? To, to cheap out on your labor and you just try to not do as much work, then at the end of the day, it will affect your, your performance. So this is the only way in which you can do it.

I can't say which one would work best in a different niche, but I can pretty much say this m- this, this kind of process does work out well for, for the niches which I tend to work on, such as the health and wellness niches. So yeah, there it is. Edward Sturm: What's the ideal amount of characters in the subject line? Aashish Khakhar: Uh, I try to go for five or seven words in the subject line, nothing beyond that Edward Sturm: And you shared, do you have any, like, more, do you have any more creative, uh, link building digital PR stories that you can share?

Things to, to get the audience inspired Aashish Khakhar: Oh, okay. Um, I tend to mix reactive and active PR together. Uh, let me explain that. So in reactive PR, every day I scan through the emails that come from HARO, all of the pitch requests, uh, which come Edward Sturm: Yeah, so Help A Reporter Out for people, yeah, for people who don't know, these are journalists who are - They're looking for expert quotes for the stories that they're writing, and then they're putting out these pitches, yeah, across all these different platforms Aashish Khakhar: Exactly.

So they're asking all, uh, they're asking the internet that, "Please, I'm going to write an article on this and that subject. I need help. I need your expertise in order for me to write the article." Because of that, we actually have the content that we know that other journalists are going to write about coming in the future.

Uh, so we know this is the kind of content that's going to be posted up on different sites. So with that being, uh, the case, we now an idea as to what new content's gonna come up, and we then have an opportunity to sort of have a seeing eye into the future. So we can actually create our content to be significant and similar or different enough Edward Sturm: Wait, can you, can you say that, can you say that again? As we were doing it, you touched, uh, your, your earpiece, and when you touch it, it, it, it messes up the sound.

And so you, you were… Yeah, this is, this part, this is very fascinating. So you said you have, like, an idea of what they're writing about or going to write about. Um, yeah, can you talk about that process again? Aashish Khakhar: So whenever you get those emails from HARO, what you can do is that you can use the content which is g- which is shown over there, which is the ideas and the kind of potential articles which are going to come up in the different publications, and you can use that as a basis for your own topic ideation so that when you do send out the topic, it would be more well-received by these journalists who you're actually technically cold emailing.

So if you see that they're going to write an article about, say, the reflecting pool and, uh, like the temperature fluctuations and whether or not they want any, um, experts in water damage or so forth. This is when you can think of, "Hey, I know they're going to write about this, so let's try to see if we can push a different angle on this." And that's where your different topic would show up, and then you can pitch out a different angle and then send it out Edward Sturm: And you said you were, you're doing a combination, so this is a combination of reactive and, and proactive Aashish Khakhar: Exactly.

Because in the content or the, the topic ideas that you're getting from here comes from the reactive portion of PR, while then you use that idea in order to put it into the active portion when you're actually doing the pitching out and you're doing your own idea that you have to post onto the website. So when you actually combine those two, you're getting a little bit more, um, of, uh, uh, how do I say this? You're, you're getting a little bit more of, uh, of a better chance in actually in, in order to get published Edward Sturm: You ever do anything with, uh, press releases?

Aashish Khakhar: Not really. So I haven't found great benefits in order to do a large number of press releases unless they're very, very relevant. But even press releases, they tend to go into what I think is some kind of black void where none of the journalists will actually ever look at it because they get tens and tens of thousands of them on a daily basis. So they're good for a little bit of a bump in terms of AI citations and LLM citations, but will they actually give you long-term don't think so.

Because over time, those pages, e- if - even if they get indexed, they end up getting - they end up dying out after six to eight months or so, as far as I've seen Edward Sturm: Yeah, but they, but it can be inexpensive. Actually, I've seen some cool things. Yeah, I've t- I've seen, I've seen tiered link building with press releases. Um, and I've seen press releases stick around.

Press releases influence AI search, which is pretty cool. Aashish Khakhar: Yeah Edward Sturm: yeah, but, but yeah, they, they eventually go away. Either cheaper press releases will go away pretty fast. Uh, ones on Yahoo, Yahoo Finance will stick around for a couple of months, but like… But it is still, it's still like, it's interesting how well it works because it can really influence the SERPs and it can really influence LLMs.

Aashish Khakhar: Definitely. So I feel that for any new business, if they want to get into LLMs, if they write or they get press releases written for them, at least on a monthly basis, and they send them out for six to eight months or so in order to try to build a narrative online about the brand and their values and their products and services, it can be useful as long as it's not a duplicate every month. So the first month you can just say it's a new, it's a new business which has been set up.

The second month you can actually say we're now setting - offering services in different, uh, portions or different places of the market. In the third one, this is when you can say a website update where you involved a brand new tool. The fourth one could be like you have now done a multilingual addition to the website, so now it's in English, Spanish, and French or so forth. So as long as you contin - Yeah Edward Sturm: any, distribution, uh, services that you really recommend for press releases?

Aashish Khakhar: Honestly, uh, I tend to focus mostly on digital PR, aren't that many which I think would be good. I think there was Business Wire, which was one, which seemed decent enough, that seems to be something similar to what everyone else is using. Do you have any that you would suggest or you would recommend? Edward Sturm: AB Newswire is really cheap and AB News… Have you, you, do you know AB Newswire?

Aashish Khakhar: I believe I've heard of it, but I don't think I've used that personally Edward Sturm: Yeah, AB Newswire is crazy cheap. You can get the $500 per year package, which amortizes to s- to, uh, $6 per press release. You get, I think it's, like, 83 press releases for $500. And these ones, they don't last for that long, but you can build links to the press releases and make them last longer.

And then these ones literally influence AI overviews in ChatGPT, and you see it, and you see it time and time again, and it's, it's crazy. And you can just put out… You have a ch- you have a cheap writer, you can just put out press release after press release after press release, just d- different stories. It, it's not let's… It's exactly what you said. It's, you're not putting out the same exact content.

You're, you're making new stories. We just launched this product. This product just got a good review. Everything's going great as normal, like And you can just keep on putting o- yeah.

and Aashish Khakhar: It could Edward Sturm: then I share it… Yeah, go on Aashish Khakhar: Sorry, I was just gonna say it could be something as simple as a partnership with a new provider or a new product line being added as well. But no, I love that idea. I will definitely keep that in mind, and I'll look into ABUs wire then Edward Sturm: And I wanna… I used to use PRLog.org, uh, which can be more expensive, but I wanna look into, I think it's, it's called, like, Globe- GlobeNewswire.

I, I covered this guy, uh, Zeeshan. I don't remember his… Zee- Zeeshan Yasim, I think that's his, his name. Aashish Khakhar: Okay Edward Sturm: if you search anything having to do with, uh, with, like, LLM SEO expert, his Yahoo Finance press release shows up, and it says on the press release w- where it was distributed from, and it was, like, GlobeNewswire. And so he has this H1, w- and, and yeah, he has a title of the press release.

It's like Yasim, or it, it, Zee- Zeeshan Yasim named best SEO, uh, best LLM SEO expert. And then he also has, like… Yeah, and he has SEO, LLM SEO expert in the, in the page title for his website, and he's, he's just optimized his whole, like, his whole entity around this phrase, LLM SEO expert. And if you… So if you search, if you search this or any variation of it, LLM AI SEO expert, anything like that, you see his Yahoo Finance press release come up, and it was… The Yahoo Finance press release was published, I think, April 10th.

And so it's, it stuck around for a while. And he built links to this. I, I looked into it, and I saw that he literally built links from ar- from articles about, like, how to do SEO for LLMs, and he built links to this press release. And, uh, yeah, I, I thought it was so cool, and it's working.

It's, it, it's working. I thought it was so, so cool Aashish Khakhar: That's pretty cool. I'll definitely keep that in mind if I'm gonna go down the press release route. I've just felt that I tend to get a lot of like traffic from LLMs, but it's mostly based upon the content which is on the site and also because of the brand building which has happened because of the reactive and active PR.

But that's something which I would like to go into. That, that's very interesting. I'll try to go into that again in the Edward Sturm: No, don't get me wrong, Ashish. Linkable assets are my favorite.

They are the m- they are the - They have the highest impact. Like, it's - When you - Especially when you have a viral linkable asset, it - When you have a viral linkable asset, no link building budget can really get, c- can get what a viral linkable… When you hit that magic, no link building budget can get what a viral linkable asset can get you. Uh, and it's, like, I'm, I'm sure you, you know what I'm talking about, where it's just, "Oh my God, this one has really taken off."

And o- and other people are - It's just, it - you get that spark, and it turns into this huge flame. Aashish Khakhar: Yeah Edward Sturm: I wanna ask, what are the biggest mistakes that you see where, like, uh, w- w- where what most SEOs are getting wrong about digital PR? Aashish Khakhar: Well, that's the thing. I've looked at a number of different campaigns which have happened, and whenever I see, uh, anything pop up, most of them do seem to be good.

But what I think that they could improve on would be massaging the anchor text. So instead of each email, because they tend - many of the digital PR packages or the case studies I've seen, and when I try to do a little bit of reverse engineering to see where the links have come from, they all tend to have the exact same anchor text. If you are getting the exact same anchor text from great high-authority domains, I'm sure that's all great, but this is where you have an opportunity in order to write something slightly different.

So according to brand name or brand name study, or brand name created a survey, or brand name's XYZ. Once you continue to use different anchor text, and especially if you try to put your brand name in there, it actually helps building up an entity rather than it just being something along the lines of, take a look at their survey or according to this survey here, or this survey in twenty twenty-six showed and so forth. So I really feel that once you start adding your own brand name in there, it really helps Google understand that this is related to whatever this content is, and that would definitely help.

Even if it wasn't in there, it would actually help in creating, say, a semantic triple and creating, uh, a stronger link to this brand name entity. So that's something which I would really push for other SEOs to do, especially when they're going for digital PR Edward Sturm: Dude, sometimes I get pitches for this show and, and I have the people on, on the podcast, and I'm like, "Man, I never wanna take guest pitches ever again." Aashish Khakhar: Yeah Edward Sturm: a- and then, uh, and other times, uh, like right now, I, I have guests on from cold pitches like you did to me, and I'm like, "Oh my God," like, "I need more of these."

Like, dude, you're sh- d- you're sharing such practical, tactical knowledge. It's so good. I'm so, I'm, I'm, I'm so happy with the stuff that you're sharing, and I really agree with what you said about using, y- using the brand name but in various ways, in different ways, and I've made episodes about that. It's r- it's, it's very important, and it's more natural as well.

It se- Aashish Khakhar: Exactly Edward Sturm: build more of a natural backlink profile. Uh, what, what types of campaigns consistently earn the highest quality links? Aashish Khakhar: Surveys. Surveys beyond a doubt would create the most number of links as far as I can tell based upon my experience.

And the good thing is that if that survey is something which can be repeated year after year, that's when you can go back to the same kind of journalists, and then you can say that last year you covered our survey on, I don't know, the state of, uh, the wellness companies across the world. Then you can actually showcase that we've now updated it with more correspondence, with more questions, and this would be a great addition and so forth. And once you actually have that, then it's, it's a lot better.

I think surveys are very underrated. They are expensive, but the, the return on investment is definitely worth it Edward Sturm: Walk me through the process that you would use for a survey. Maybe you could share one that you did recently or, and just change things around in it, but share the process Aashish Khakhar: so we did one for a B2B, uh, industrial supplies company that, um, that mostly targets warehouses which actually have an outbound kind of, um, facility, so they're sending packages to different places.

So what we ended up doing is that we created a survey on, how often do packages get lost. So I thought that was a great idea because it's something which is ubiquitous across all kinds of people, across all regions, whether in the Eastern, the m - uh, the Mountain Time zone or the Pacific Time zone, and can actually get links from multiple different places. So what we ended up doing is that we made - We used AI in order to figure out twenty questions or so. Once you go beyond twenty questions, it gets a little bit more expensive.

And we targeted two thousand people across the continental United States. And we asked questions like: How often do you buy online? How often do you return things? How often do your shipments come late?

How often do your shipments come, uh, or are missing? Or how and when they do go missing, how difficult is it for you to actually recover those shipments again? And, uh, with that in, um, with that, uh, being said, once we created the survey, we put all the data up, and we tried to make it look a little bit more flashy. Please use Data Wrapper.

It's great for this. Uh, then we sent it out, and it did pretty well. Um, and the good thing about this kind of a survey is that you can actually repeat it year after year. So you can say the change, uh, the, the, the changes in package tracking or the, differences in package deliverability across five years or so.

Because then every six months or so, you can actually showcase that this is the difference in package tracking from twenty twenty-five, and this is what our new survey said in twenty twenty-six. You recently wrote an article on some kind of package or delivery, uh, statistics or something to do with any of the last mile delivery providers such as FedEx, UPS, and so forth. So this would actually help out in that. So whenever you have a piece of content that is that great, you shouldn't just leave it up to a campaign and then let it, and then push it out once or twice a year.

You should try to follow up on it every three or four months because there's always going to be more and more journalists who are going to write something which is niche adjacent to that Edward Sturm: But yeah, you talked about how to pitch, how to pitch to the journalist once you have the results from the campaign, but h- but how do you, h- how do you find the list of people, or, or, yeah, when you… Sorry, once you have the results from the survey, but how do you find the list of people to actually send the survey to?

Aashish Khakhar: Same thing like before, Muck Rack and then create your own media list. You have to look for anyone who actually wrote anything Edward Sturm: N- no, no, no, no. I mean literally like the people that you're asking the quest- the 20 questions to Aashish Khakhar: Oh, no. That's actually part of the, of the survey platform.

So if Edward Sturm: Oh Aashish Khakhar: into YouGov, the - you, you put in the questions, you put in your demographics, you say that you want to cover 2,000 people from across the continental United States, it actually finds the people for you. So we don't actually have to go and find 2,000 people. Also, if you do try to find 2,000 people of your own choosing, that won't really be a survey in that scenario. It won't be randomized enough.

So that's actually handled by the platform itself Edward Sturm: That's great. How much, how much does that cost? Aashish Khakhar: The low end 800 and can go up to 1,500, 1,600 depending upon number of people, number of questions, the kind of demographics you want to cover. Um, all of those play a part in there Edward Sturm: That's not too bad.

You just have to have the idea. So how do you, how do you ideate? Like, how do you figure out which ideas are worth pursuing and which ones aren't? Do you have a process for that?

Aashish Khakhar: So we usually talk to the clients themselves. We see who their main, who their main clients are, who - what are their ICPs, and then we try to connect those to actual consumers. So we do - It takes a couple of weeks, and there's no real way to do that, and there's no real process other than talking with a bunch of people and having sort of like a, an actual sounding board. So I would talk to my colleagues, I would talk to other people, I would talk to my aunts and uncles, and I would ask them, uh, whether or not this is a good topic, whether or not this would be relevant until a point where they shoo me away and they say, "Don't ask me anymore."

But, uh, that's usually the process that we go through. There is no, there's no quick and dirty way for that, unfortunately. Because if we're going to put that much effort and money into setting up a survey, we want to make sure that the content and the idea is good enough and relevant enough that people would, definitely read about it and share it. So that takes, I think is one of the longest, um, uh, one, one of the most important and the longest time frames before you actually set up the content.

And sometimes even when you ga- get a great idea, it's sometimes difficult in order to get the da- the data that you need for that. say if you're going to do something on, say, football for every single pharmacy or hospital in a certain area, it is possible, but it's gonna be way too time-consuming for you to find that. so there's no easy way for that, I guess. Edward Sturm: Do you think AI has changed how journalists discover stories?

Or like, um… And, and has AI ch- also changed what kinds of campaigns perform best? Aashish Khakhar: I would say that AI has made it easier, but AI still isn't at that point where it would know whether or not an idea would be viral or whether or not it could be good. Sometimes you have a great story and then you send it out, and it just falls flat on its face because of the timing, because of other things in the news. Um, AI definitely helps, but I haven't seen it up to the point where it can actually replace people, at least as of now Edward Sturm: We were talking about this earlier about, but just your take.

Brand mentions without backlinks, do they have measurable value? Yeah Aashish Khakhar: Oh, yes, definitely Edward Sturm: Yeah. All right. How, how, how big is your team?

Aashish Khakhar: Four more people. So there's a total of five of us Edward Sturm: Okay, so there's a total of five of you, and we've basically been covering up to this point what you do with, like, a $5,000 budget. That's where you said you start. So now I want to ask you, if you had a $50,000 budget, what would you do?

Aashish Khakhar: Um, I would have… that's the thing. I don't think I would change my methodology, to be honest. I would probably just try to create more and more diverse campaigns, probably have better data, but nothing beyond that. Maybe I would be able to send multiple different, uh, emails or multiple different campaigns for a client rather than just sending once a week.

Maybe I would be able to push it to twice a week. But again, that depends. Like, maybe I'm not at that point where I can send, that without putting too much stress on our team un- until I change the workflows that we currently have in place. Edward Sturm: What part of what you do, like your, your job is most annoying?

Is like the part that you hate the most Aashish Khakhar: Pushing… No, I'm not gonna say pushing, but clarifying the topic ideation concepts that we come up with with the client. So sometimes we come up with what I think are great ideas, but then the client shoots it down, and they have their reasons for it, and maybe it's not 100% relevant to what they want their brand to be associated Edward Sturm: specify. I wanna s- I wanna sp- I'm sorry, I wanna specify the question. Um, in terms of like, n- not even client related, like you having to like… Or just pretend that you were a solo p- you were a solo practitioner and you were doing this for your own business.

What would be the part that would be most annoying? Aashish Khakhar: I would think it would be getting the content, so getting the survey data, writing that up, making sure it looks nice enough, and the media list, because that takes a large percentage of my time. Getting the media list, yeah Edward Sturm: was there any part of that process that we didn't cover? Aashish Khakhar: No, I don't think so.

I think Edward Sturm: Okay, good Aashish Khakhar: covered because we created, we talked about topic ideation, the media list, the kind of pitch, uh, how we send it, the follow-ups. Um, I think we covered it all, I think Edward Sturm: parts of, what parts of what you do, uh, are automated with AI, and are there other parts that you haven't automated yet that you think you can automate and you want to automate? Aashish Khakhar: So I think the topic ideation still can't be automated.

I think the media list portion can be automated. I've seen, because of the large volume of journalists that are out there and, uh, how I tend to actually search for them, because many of journalists are not really on Muck Rack. Sometimes we have targets to get a link from a certain kind of industry publication. So I have to go to that industry publication itself.

I've got to look at all their content, look at the writers, try to see whether or not they're writing for different places. And many industry publications, they tend to write, uh, the journalists over there tend to write for other industry publications within the same media house. So that still, I mean, that can be automated, but it hasn't been successful yet, as far as I can tell. Uh, the topic ideation - Sorry, not topic ideation, the pitch, that I think can be automated, but I'm really worried about it sounding super AI-generated and fake.

So I always like to have the last look on that. So until now, we have our own workflows in place how we do it, but not a lot of it is still, um, covered by AI because I tend to - I, I'm t- I'm part of a lot of groups where there are media people, there are journalists, and they're talking to each other, and a large number of them continue to have the exact same complaints, that they continue to get a lot of AI-generated stuff. So they recognize my name and the company name and the kind of work we do, I, don't think I'm ready to sully it.

I'm not gonna say sully it, that's probably the wrong term. But I'm not ready to still go down the AI route just in order to make things a little bit faster, because I value the kind of content which comes up, the value of the links which come up, rather than just trying to do it a little bit faster. Do you understand? Edward Sturm: I do, and I, I think that's a great take.

That I really appreciate w-what you just shared. Um, how do you reverse engineer competitors', like, best digital PR campaigns? Aashish Khakhar: Oh, that's pretty simple. You just put it into, um, into, uh, Ahrefs.

You look at their most recent referring domains, you look at their anchor text. You Google that exact same anchor text, put it in quotation marks, and then you scour the internet. Um, so there was one for a real estate company, uh, based in Dubai, where they were trying to give out details as this is a percentage of sales that were made in the past X amount of time. And then I continued to look up where this exact same, anchor text was used, because fortunately, that digital agency which they're using is not changing their anchor text.

So from there, I'm able to see where they're sending it out to, what, uh, what, uh, what targets they're using and so forth, and also the names of the journalists that they're using. So that always gives me an idea as to how I can replicate this if I were to ever get a real estate agent or a real estate agency as a client. So the same process can happen across multiple other places. Um, you just have to look at their backlinks, look at their mentions, and so forth Edward Sturm: I love it.

What's… Are, are there any tactics that you consistently see, um, competitors overlooking, like competitors to you or businesses overlooking Aashish Khakhar: That's the thing, like once you get to a certain level, they're no longer competitors. Like, so when I started off, doing it for certain businesses, they had practically zero, like DR. They maybe had DR4 or five, which only came up from citations, couple of forum links and so forth. their competition back then was other websites in the same niche which had a similar low DR.

Over time, as you improve this for your clients and your own sites, your competition also changes. So it's difficult for you to actually pinpoint, or at least for me, to pinpoint one issue that they're doing or something that they're doing wrong. Edward Sturm: What is one digital PR tactic almost anyone listening can implement this week? Aashish Khakhar: I would say they would go for reactive PR.

That's the easiest way. They can set up a profile on Qwoted, on Connectively, Cision, whatever the latest one is, Source of Sources, Mention Match, um, SourceBottle. Set up their profile and they can take advantage of the couple of free pitches that they can send out and then start. Start from there.

Even if you start somewhere, it'll be be- you're, you're running laps around people sitting on their couch. So just, just start Edward Sturm: What's, what's one thing people waste the most time doing? Aashish Khakhar: I think that they spend a lot of time in reactive PR in order to get the perfect pitch out or the perfect response to what journalists are looking for, Edward Sturm: Mm-hmm Aashish Khakhar: that, that doesn't work out the best because that is more of a time-based situation.

You, the quicker you send it out, the higher the chances are of you winning the pitch or winning the, the, the position on the article Edward Sturm: Here's a fun question. If you had to earn 20 high-authority links in the next 90 days starting from scratch, what would your playbook be? Aashish Khakhar: Oh, um, topic ideation, but it'll have to include a survey the idea must be broad enough that it can be sent to a large number of journalists. And then from there, just send it out.

I'm confident with the great survey, with the great, uh, idea that you can hit way more than 20 links in 90 days Edward Sturm: Ashish, you are so… Yeah, you're, you've been so awesome. I, I'm so thankful for you sharing all of this stuff. Um, and I liked what you said especially about having, like, a real person for reactive PR. Like, because, uh, as you said, so many people are trying to automate that, but if you can prove that you are real, literally just, like, the bar for l- the, the, the bar for success is kind of low.

Just, like, prove that you're a real person to start. It's, it's, Aashish Khakhar (3): That's Edward Sturm: know, it's, it's funny. Aashish Khakhar (3): pictures of you doing your service, maybe a picture of your diploma, some, uh, some words about your experience, and that's all it takes for you to separate it from some AI-generated placeholder. That, that really does help Edward Sturm: Last question is, if listeners only remember one thing about digital PR, what should it be?

Aashish Khakhar (3): Oh, wow. Um That's a difficult one. I'd, I'd never thought of a… Let me think. Uh, I think the best way to answer that would be to say that you have to make the content as, relatable everyone else, at least from the perspective of people outside of your target audience.

So the reason you're doing digital PR is not just in order to bring visitors to your site who will eventually turn to customers. You're doing this in order to actually build up your brand value, to showcase that you are more than just what you would do for your immediate visitors or immediate, uh, people in your surrounding areas. This is so that you can show that you're trying to be a thought leader about this content, about this topic, and this is, in a way, an extension of you showing your expertise.

Once you actually show your expertise in this manner, where other people will actually cite you, that's where it actually reaps dividends. Um, in my language, there's, uh, there's a saying where a king isn't a king just because he says that he is. He's only a king when other people actually recognize him as one. It's the exact same scenario here.

Once you actually start sh-showcasing your knowledge and other people actually cite you and link to you because of that expertise or because of your knowledge or because of your survey, your data, your tool, your link magnet, your, your da- uh, your statistics, all of that helps build up your authority, and that will help you ride the wave of AI. Because once you actually have this kind of data which no other AI has, they have to cite you for it, and that's where you will win Edward Sturm: Ashish, thank you again so much for coming on the show.

Where should everybody find you? Aashish Khakhar (3): Um, they can find me at Uh, we have our site. We- you can also find me on LinkedIn. You can look me up at, uh, Ashish Kakkar and, um, send me any questions you guys have.

I'd be - I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd love to know how I can help out Edward Sturm: And all of your links will be in the description for this episode. This was, uh, this was so much fun. You shared so much good stuff.

I'm really grateful for you coming on, and I hope we do many more episodes where you're sharing case studies, how-tos, awesome stories, creative digital PR and link-building. I love all of this stuff. This is episode 1,092 of the show. 1,092 days in a row doing this podcast.

If you watch this on YouTube, thank you so much for watching. If you listened on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so much for listening. And I will talk to you again tomorrow. Bye now.