Designing the Future of Travel: Solving Content Chaos with Intentional Innovation

Speaker A: Welcome to doja Live, the place where top minds in travel and hospitality check in to share insights and breakthroughs shaping the industry. Brought to you by Ankora, your trusted partner for AI, cloud and data driven innovation. Enjoy your stay. Hello and welcome to Doja Live, this Wednesday, July 30, 2025. This is where we explore the trends and technology shaping the of travel and hospitality. I am your host, Kim Lantis, and I'm thrilled to be back for another conversation that cuts through the noise and gets to the real innovation that's happening in our industry. So today's episode is all about designing the future of travel, solving content chaos with intentional innovation. Here to dive into that with me is my co host, Jose Matuk, VP of Travel and Hospitality at ncora. Hi, Jose. Good to see you.

Speaker B: Excited to be here.

Speaker A: Likewise. Likewise. And of course, taking the place of honor today is our guest, Cathy Morgan, Senior Vice President of Product management at Sabre. Cathy, thank you so, so much for being with us today.

Speaker C: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker A: Uh, awesome. You know, Kathy, we're going to be discussing several things for our audience. Starting off with how we can unify fragmented booking systems and more to create seamless journeys. Taking a look at the role of user experience, AI and intentional product design. And of course, answering the question of how Sabre Mosaic's travel marketplace is helping travel buyers access everything with confidence. But before we do that, uh, we'd like to get to know you a bit more. You know, you have been, it's my understanding, at Sabre your entire career, so I'm very curious to know what it is that excites you about working in travel Stack tech, even today. And of course, help us frame this conversation of why solving content fragmentation feels more urgent and more personal for you even than. Than ever. Thank you.

Speaker C: No. Oh, absolutely. Well, thanks for the question. And again, just thanks for the opportunity to be here. Um, as you said, I've been at Sabre my entire career. Um, it's actually, I'm 15 days away from my 36th anniversary, which is crazy. So I like to say that, um, it's before child labor laws were in place, obviously, because how could I possibly be that old? Uh, sadly, I am, but, um, I just. I just love it. I have given my entire life to this organization because it is just such an amazing place to be. Um, and in this industry, I think, you know, most people, if you go from event to event over the course of, you know, the last several decades, you see the same people maybe in different Logos that maybe, you know, different badges, but it just gets in your blood. And it's really hard to find an industry that is a dynamic and challenging, um, and I think that's what's kept me so engaged. I just think about the fact that this particular industry is so dependent on rapid technical innovation, um, and having this notion of ecosystem and partnership and collaboration, um, and it just constantly presents us with new really hard challenges, which I love. So, um, obviously that's kind of where what's kept me here and what keeps me going every day. Um, and as you think about that, you know, on this notion of really hard problems, certainly as you teed up in the intro, content fragmentation is probably the most press with just the challenges and the complexity that it's introducing. So it's really a very urgent and very personal uh, for me and for my organization because the fact is system sprawl is rampant and the cost and complexity that it's driving is, is frankly unsustainable for agencies. The needs of airlines and other travel suppliers are just continuing to become more complex as they think about what the world of modern retailing looks like. So when I, when I look at that and I compare that to like Sabre's DNA to solve the most challenging problems in travel, I mean, talk about a recipe for success. So I'm super excited about it.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And talking about coming out of a lot of those get togethers that get us so excited. We just came freshly off of gbta and there I was presented with your Sabers recently released survey talking about, you know, the idea of fragmentation. You found that 91%, right? Basically everyone, 91% of agencies are juggling four or more booking systems, over half of those with seven or more. So let's talk a little bit about what the, what the biggest downstream effects are are on this for both the traveler experience and of course this new generation or the expectation of uh, the travel buyer.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean I think you, sometimes there's those things in life that make you go and you think about just, just listening to that statement. Seven or more, like half have seven or more. Imagine the cost, the complete and frankly the frustration that that introduces. I mean, I don't think that there is a travel professional in the world that, that got into travel because they love spanning seven different systems to get their job done right. It's about their passion for travel, their passion to serve, their passion to create experiences. Technology needs to enable that, not detract from it. And so certainly as we think about that, the clear, most obvious Challenge that this produces is just cost. Um, how much it takes to operationalize fragmented systems, um, is significant. You've got to think about it. It's not just you touched on the user that's problematic. The other aspect of this that isn't as obvious to those that aren't, um, close to this is the cost of aggregation. At the end of the day, when you have multiple systems and you're out trying to identify the best sources and locations to be able to secure the content and experiences you need, you then have to pull it all back together because ultimately that traveler expects a seamless experience. And travel, as you know, it's so dynamic in that this isn't like Amazon where I go buy my pair of shoes and they show up in my door and we're through. Travel is persistent. Over the lifetime of that journey, a lot of things happen, intentional things and unintentional things. And so the ability to truly get your arms around all that, I think is where the system sprawl puts the most pain and the most operational cost. So I think that that is something that's so important. And then as you think about your point around user experience, the fact is that we are all consumers in our everyday life. We want that same consumer grade user experience in the tools that we utilize at work that we have in our other experiences. So that need, again, I keep going back to re aggregation because pulling it all together is really how we're going to drive the right outcomes and something that we're really focused up or focus on.

Speaker A: Absolutely. It's not buying a pair of shoes on Amazon, but we want it to be feeling, yes, absolutely.

Speaker C: Not that I buy shoes on Amazon. I buy everything on Amazon.

Speaker A: Of course, let's buy limit ourselves, Kathy.

Speaker B: And um, while we know Sabre Mosaic Travel Marketplace is being positioned as a response to all this complexity, um, I was wondering if you can walk us a little bit through how it brings the whole world of travel in one place. And also I'm curious about this user experience you're talking about. Um, doesn't it overwhelm the agents? Uh, I mean, how, how do you think about that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's, it's a great question, Jose. And you know, one of the things you'll hear people talk about is like the paradox of choice. When you have too much choice, you can get into kind of an inability to make decisions because it's just overwhelming. So certainly, um, and that is something that we are constantly, uh, focused on being able to drive out that, that kind of, that, that that challenge around having so much that you don't quite know what to do with it. But let me go to your first question, the first part of your question. Then we'll come back to the user experience. I think, you know, at the end of the day the, the key here is like agencies and corporate buyers don't want to have that fomo, right. Fear of missing out when it comes to content, um, at the end of the day, content is king and all the other things that we do, capabilities that we surround it with, efficiencies we drive, it means nothing if you don't at the core have the content required to be able to serve and support your travelers. And so that's really what this is all about. This isn't a new focus for Sabre. This is something we have been working and innovating on for years. It's just a matter of wrapping it all together within the SABR Mosaic Travel Marketplace umbrella. Um, to be able to just make it a lot more simpler to understand and more importantly simpler to access. I think at its core what makes this so uh, so important in kind of differentiating is really around the, the way in which Saber Mosaic Travel Marketplace is architected. I know this isn't a technical um, podcast, but technology. Oh, there, okay, I never know because I have a tendency to get more technical than I should sometimes. Um, but you gotta just appreciate the fact that this is built on native open architecture, that it is a flexible API first platform. If those words mean things to your audience, they understand why this is so important. It's really the enabler to then having that flexibility to either go out and source our content from uh, endless supply of sources or enabling customers to bring their own content through our various uh, different types of supplier and other types of API connections. It gives a ton of optionality and flexibility to, to be able to create that experience that our customers are so dependent on. And it's also around sourcing content is great. But the other key differentiator here, and what's so critical is that it then is through a single connection, the world of travel all in one place. That is the direct response to that system sprawl that we talked about earlier. I need to be able to have that confidence that through a single connection that going to be able to go out and get the content required to serve my, my customers. And again not just single connection, also normalize and optimize to be able then work across front office, mid office, back office processes, downline workflows. So I think that's something that really differentiates Sabre is that we know this space so well that we understand what it takes to deliver these highly optimized systems. And then when you transition to kind of what that user experience piece is, um, it is front and center in how we think about design. And there's a, when I talk about design, I'm um, talking about this from kind of two dimensions. The obvious one that people spend a lot of time on, kind of user interface. So when you actually own the glass, you're designing that user experience. You know, we have a ton of science and expertise in creating those best in breed user workflows in solutions like Saber Red360 and Saber and Launchpad. And what we do in this space, it's about continuous innovation to drive optimization and the outcomes that our customer base needs. And it's where AI becomes so important. It goes back to, there's a million things I could show at any given time. How do I know I'm showing the right things? And right relative to who is that buyer, who is that traveler? The notion of relevance becomes really important in these conversations. So, so we are constantly innovating, testing, learning. We spend a ton of time with our, uh, agency and developer customers getting that feedback to ensure that we are continuing to evolve on that front. But there's also the aspect of developer experience which I don't think people spend enough time talking about. As I mentioned in my early opening, um, Sabre is an API led company, which means we build and deliver APIs first, we innovate with them and we expose them for others to innovate on. So the quality about our APIs, I kind of think about it as API hygiene, the ease of integration, how flexible they are to allow that innovation. Um, it is critical because at the end of the day we're not going to build everything ourselves. We know that there is an extensive partner network of innovators in this space. So we think it's really important to have those tools that they're able to build on top of to be able to continue to drive that type of innovation. And so as we think about that, the last leg, kind of third leg of the stool is also the supplier value proposition. We spend a lot of time talking about agencies because that's where I'd say the effects of content fragmentation and systems for all is most prominent. But we also understand the importance of continuing to provide this optimized marketplace to deliver value for our supplier partners. As we're seeing in more emergence of modern retailing, the way airlines and hoteliers and Other supplier partners want to innovate and differentiate their products. How we innovate user experience and how we tell that story and how we articulate unique value propositions, all of that is core to how we think about this. Sorry, that was a really long answer.

Speaker B: Perfect. And when it comes to travel, we know Sabre is one of the most innovative companies. So uh, let me ask you a follow up question if I may. Kim. Um, I'm just curious again. M sorry for maybe this is also going to be a long question, but it's relevant right? So I'm curious about how is built in AI, uh, in these systems improving both the agent productivity and the traveler personalization experience. Right. Uh, maybe you can share a real world example where this is making a measurable impact.

Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. This is one of the things it's hard to like. I mean there's so much that we are doing and seeing in this space. But yeah, I can definitely give you a couple at the end of the day you, I think, and we'll probably talk about this later, kind of the responsible use of AI and how can AI actually drive unique and differentiated experience and drive um, more optimal and efficient workflows, et cetera. So we think, I think about it as, you know, I, I believe, and um, I think most of us believe that AI is probably one of the most transformational technologies that any of us are going to experience in our lifetime. Um, I've seen a lot of technical innovation over my 36 years with the company. Never as rapid as this. Um, and, and the, the fact that the technology is so ubiquitous, there's so much and everyone's kind of figuring out how to play in this space. So I think we're, we're going to see so much that that's going to be built on the backs of AI. Some of the things that we've been doing over the last several years is really understanding what are some of the real near term best applications to drive rapid innovation and rapid value. Um, a couple of real life examples you asked me for. So within our global shopping applications, we can leverage AI to be able to assess and identify best sources, best content based on agency preferences or corporate program preferences. You realize as you look at just the vast amount of data and options that it's beyond what a human brain can comprehend. You need this technology to be able to crunch that data, be able to analyze that data, to be able to produce it, but you also have to learn in the process, which is, we talk a lot about AI, but machine learning is equally important. How do these models get smarter over time? How do they respond to the way in which they're engaged? The actions that are subsequently triggered based on different result sets? How can we use that to the inform and learn so that you're constantly refining that targeting? Because at the end of the day that the um, I'm going to use relevance, you can use personalization. I think people use different words for the same thing. At the end of the day it is, it's important to say I've got all the right content, the breadth of content, because we need that assurance. But it's did I get the right content at the right time, at the right place, at the right price? That's what drives conversion. And most of us are looking at content on screens this big. I don't want a hundred options, I need the three best ones. And so that's where AI is really appropriate. To help understand that, you also have another example. So I've talked a little bit about kind of in the airspace, in the lodging space, where you think about, in Sabre alone we have over 2 million lodging options. What in the world do you do with 2 million lodging options? You get smart about them. You understand context, you understand application, you understand preferences. So one of our solutions we have is our lodging, our alternate property. We leverage AI. So when an agent is in the workflow or our API within our API utilization and a property is not available, how to rapidly identify alternate properties that fit within the context of those needs. So contemplating agency preferences, corporate preferences, traveler preferences, getting that right in front so that an agent doesn't have to like start over and go scratch, that is a huge time saver. So those are a couple of examples. Hopefully that, that, that hit the mark for you.

Speaker A: Um, and it echoes what we were talking about in terms of like Amazon and that shopping experience where there's always that very, that suggestion down at the bottom of what you might like since you're interested in this thing and it's easy, you know, I wanted to kind of swing back to this idea of accessing everything with confidence, which you've touched on a lot. It was also something that I heard you talk about a lot while we were conversing at gbta, uh, and coming back to that report because there's another 91 there which was showing that agencies are cautiously optimistic. So wait, confidence, cautiously optimistic about AI. But of that 91 of cautiously optimistic, 41 are still worrying about long term consequences. So let's just kind of continue the AI train before we jump onto the NDC airplane Here, uh, how do you approach, approach responsible AI adoption in a way that builds that trust and not just internally, but with your partners and your clients?

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I, I think it's a great question. I mean, at the end of the day, for all the great things AI has, it's also kind of scary. Um, you know, people don't necessarily understand it. I know I'm certainly not, you know, a data scientist that understands kind of all the complexities and you know, there's still times that I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Um, and so I think that that notion of responsible use and building trust and confidence is something that it's going to be, I'd say an evolving area that we'll have to have a lot of focus. You're already beginning to hear more and more like in the regulatory arena, different entities starting to think about AI governance. But fortunately we see this as something that is absolutely core to, um, our value proposition and our commitment to customers. Um, a few things is like, I think where you start, first of all is that generally it's how does AI enhance workflows, enhance experiences versus kind of, you know, this autonomous world where there are no people. I don't think you get there. People are the secret sauce to relationships and connections and experiences. But where can we leverage AI to be able to augment workflows or augment, um, applications to drive even greater and more efficient experiences, engineer out low value tasks so that I can free up time for my consultants to go out and make those connections and create those experiences? I think that is a super obvious place, uh, an application of AI and will continue to evolve in that area. But I also think that AI is a buzzword and you got to be careful that you're not just saying it to say it. It needs to be, I love the word you said in the opening. Intentional. Intentional about the outcomes that you're designing and the role that AI can play in driving those outcomes. So I think as ahead to say, so what does it look like to build that confidence in that trust? I think there's a couple of words that jump out at me. It's around transparency and accountability. Um, the reality around AI is that we don't always understand it, we don't know it. So how trans. We need to be very transparent about the application, about it, about the data that's leveraging to ensure applications are leveraging data that it has the right to use and that the use case is irrelevant to that particular application. So to me that's really where we're going to see a lot of involvement and more communication. And another thing that I think Sabre is very benefit we benefit from is that we have the strategic partnership with Google, who I think arguably is the uh, thought leader and pioneering innovator in the AI email space. And you can go out and Google AI. I mean Google has placed publish their AI principles and it's on a lot of these same concepts around transparency, all data privacy, all these types of things. So we get to learn alongside them as well. So we have our own team of engineers and scientists that spend a lot of time on this stuff. Again, transparency, protection, use of data, but also working with Google we get to get smarter along the way. So I think we are in just a really great place to be able to build that confidence.

Speaker A: I love it. I love it. Let's swing back to intentionality because while I was at GBTA I also learned that Sabre now has 38 carriers live on NDC with I believe an expected 50 by the end of the year. Now it's my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you at uh, Sabre had once been seen as kind of a bit behind the curve here, but the reality was that your team was focused on intentionality. Right. Laying that right foundation for long term scalability, which is pretty much where you're at right now. You know, from a product management perspective, your forte. How do you define intentionality in this kind of transformation? Uh, and kind of what were the trade offs, what were you expecting coming into it and you know, uh, like a winning bet.

Speaker C: I love it. I think it's such a great question. I always have to, you know, I, I can't help myself on this as I always like to say that I think it takes this industry a particularly long time for the narrative to catch up to the reality. So you know I, I would say, you know, circa maybe 2021, I would say that. But if you look back certainly over the last several years, I would, I would differ with that perspective, but it's okay. Um, so I think for me the key is that um, we leading in the NDC space for quite some time, even recent where we, where it's the number of carriers which I think oftentimes that's kind of that metric of success. Um, but prior to that the things, and I love your question around kind of intentional intention, intentionality and product management, I'd say it was the things you couldn't see us doing that were so important to get us to where we are today. The very beginning, it was around, we believe that you had to anchor NDC in the context of the environment to which it needed to operate and that it had to be anchored on ecosystem collaboration. I think where NDC as an industry initiative got it completely wrong out of the gate was it was driven by airlines and an airline organization, iata, without an appreciation for the ecosystem and technology partners that needed to be along the journey to be able to then actually innovate on these standards. Fortunately, we were able to, you know, to write the ship later on, have a lot more. Now, um, as I think about that and I think about your question around driving intentionality and product management, I can tell you the way that we have been so clear for our, that we had to be so clear on what it was we needed to accomplish. And then you ensure that every decision you make is driving to that outcome. And for Sabre, let me just be very clear, that was about delivering NDC at scale. So much of the early narratives and early kind of, you know, applications of NDC were not scalable. Uh, they didn't actually contemplate the, their various use cases and the way in which this was going to be used. And so it created a lot of hype and, uh, you know, what is it? A lot of, A lot of sizzle, but no steak. Um, and so we wanted to make sure we were bringing the steak. I'm a Texan, so you eat steak. Um, and so for us, as I said, it was about delivering NDC at scale. So that meant focusing on building the necessary workflows, building the necessary underlying architecture, a true offer management system and order management system, new technical components that were going to unlock this world of modern retailing. It was also around ensuring that you look way beyond the standards that brings this content into an operational environment that's going to protect that efficiency that the agency and airlines need to be able to really scale. And then it was also around ensuring that the content was seamlessly integrated so that the principles of comparison shopping, of consumer choice were not violated. Because at the point you start having to go to, what do we say, 10 unique systems, it's really hard to understand that comparative view. And that's critical for efficiently managing either corporate budgets or personal budgets and also making sure the traveler experience is going to be delivered on. And then the other thing on that, that I'd say kind of led into that intentionality is being very clear with airline partners of what good looks like and what's required from a functional and data perspective for these capabilities to be brought to life. Ultimately, my goal is for an airline to be highly optimized in our marketplace from an NDC perspective so that they get the conversion and the eyeballs and the yield and the outcomes that they're expecting. So we pushed back a lot in the beginning to make sure that we got to that view. So I think all of that was kind of examples of intentionality. And what I can say is that the trade offs, maybe it was speed up front, but I feel really good about where we are today and certainly about where we're going.

Speaker B: Yeah. Kathy, I'm, I'm curious about, I mean, talking about the marketplace. Um, I mean can you tell us a little bit of how modular it is? Like uh, can all the agencies plug in their own content tool and um, tools, workflows or. Uh. Yeah, what, what architectural decisions. Sorry for the long winded question, but what, what architectural decisions allow for that flexibility? And um, how does that differ from the traditional GD that we all know?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's a great question if you think about it historically and there is a, I'd say a kind of a. It's a journey. So from, you know, the gds, certainly within the Sabre landscape, you know, we've been pushing the boundaries of expanding, but at the end of the day it required a major technological shift. As I mentioned before, moving to a cloud native open architecture is critical to be able to create that level of modularity. Think about it as kind of decomposing or deconstructing the monolith of the GDS to where you have unique components that are around offer management, offer optimization, retailing, um, merchandising. So you've got, you've got capabilities within there that, that has tons of optionality configurability. You then have order management which then comes into a lot of that kind of those servicing uses, uh, having an open order management system. That was when we approach this and I'll talk about ndc. But this, this can be scaled much broadly, much broader for conceptually is the um, building out our first two. I mentioned this already. The first two things we built was an open system offer management system and an open system order management system. The order management system sits on top of PNRs. You interface through our OMS layer. So over time this notion of kind of a legacy PNR construct, you're able to create and abstract that more and more and really benefit from this notion of open order management systems. Why that matters is it unlocks the path to whatever content an agency or a travel supplier wants to enable. You're no Longer married to. Does a PNR have a segment type for this type of content? It's just management system. It can manage anything. It can wrap all those surrounding enabling capabilities. So having that very modular approach. And then at the API layer, at the content sourcing layer, as I mentioned, we built out these kind of extensions plugins. We oftentimes refer to them as supplier APIs, but it's really around content APIs that to your point, we have examples of some, uh, agencies today that have brought in their own content. And why that is so important is that it gives you the power of the platform across offer management, order management, including servicing, payment solutions, and then all of that kind of wrap from a data and intelligence layer. It just gives a ton of optionality to our customers on how they want to innovate.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, you know, the final few minutes of our show today, let's talk about innovation, which for me is oftentimes synonymous with future. You know, as you're moving from offers and orders toward fully autonomous AI powered marketplace, you know, what might discovery, booking and servicing look like in three to five years, in your opinion? Do you see new interfaces like voice or natural language playing a role? Is it agentic? Uh, what's your vision? Because I recall very clearly from gbta, you had the now, the new and the next. So I want to hone in on the next.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Well, I will say this. I think this is always to me about your crystal ball. And you know, crystal balls can be murky. I don't think anyone knows, which is actually why innovation, experimentation and feedback loops is so important. I think there's an element of this business that can be, this industry that can be really slow to adapt. And so you have to recognize that. So if you come out of the door with this kind of newfangled thing that's an abstract to everything that works in the kind of. This is certainly true, I'd say in the corporate travel, um, segment M that the friction points are so significant that it stifles innovation. So you have to have an eye to say, how do you innovate in the world as it is? So when you think about that, we've already talked about some of those examples of ingesting AI in existing tool sets. So I haven't radically changed your user experience, I've radically changed how those flows are optimized, how content is managed in this world of very diverse content. But there is also this emerging world that you're describing which has uh, nothing to do with where we are today. This notion of uh, agentic agents, Agentic AI systems. Absolutely. They play a role and Sabre is innovating in that space. You have to think about all of this is on the backs of what travelers are going to expect in traveler behaviors. And you can line up 10 people and they're not going to tell you the same thing. So how do you make sure you're addressing the needs of a very diverse, uh, customer base? So we, we think about the. As you look at that next world that you were talking about, there's absolutely a world where there are individuals interacting with travel directly through their phone on some LLM. Maybe it's ChatGPT, maybe it's Gemini, maybe it's a yet to be named application and they don't want to go anywhere else. There are people that spend their day on their work on their, in their uh, work systems and they're on teams chat or some integrated workforce solution that they want to do it there. I don't want to have to go to new places. So we think it's important to have an application that can kind of fit into wherever this evolves. And so it's something that again, we have a multi tenanted view on this and we're advancing them all, uh, concurrently. And we'll again, we'll experiment, we'll get feedback. Probably a lot of the things we're doing won't make sense. And you'll say, you know what, that was a great experiment, let's kill it, let's move on. Others are going to get legs and continue to grow and evolve how we think about travel management and travel experience.

Speaker A: I love it. Uh, and very brave, you know, knowing when to let something go and when to continue. You know, we're at the, the end of our show today. As amazing as this conversation has been, I do have one final question, a very fun one that we were asking a lot of people at gpta. Uh, for you, Kathy, is it the window or the aisle? And why?

Speaker C: See I love when people ask me straightforward questions and they think it's a straightforward answer. It depends. How long is the flight? What is the product? Who am I sitting next to? Like, you know, so there's so many things that go into it, but you know, I sit in both depending on the circumstances.

Speaker A: Confidence. All right, perfect. You know, thank you, Kathy. You know, finally, uh, where can our listeners go to connect with you and learn more about Saber Mosaic Travel Marketplace, uh, and the work that your team is doing?

Speaker C: Oh, thank you for asking. Uh, please come Visit us@sabre.com We have an entire, uh, area dedicated to our SABR Mosaic Travel Marketplace. Tons of great information. Go download the white paper. And, um, there's a lot of really key insights that I think should inform all of us and how we think about this space. Um, and also LinkedIn, go to Sabre Corporation. We are constantly producing, um, really cool content there, so we'd love for you to be engaging with us.

Speaker A: Ah, all right. And I believe we have access to that white paper on the landing page of your show as well. So wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, Jose, thank you, uh, for helping guide such a rich discussion. Uh, you know, and thank you to Ancora, our sponsor, for making these conversations possible. And Quora does, uh, bring scalability to travel and hospitality brands through world class engineering and innovation support. You know, Jose, if someone wants to follow up and get to know you or in Quora better, how might they go about doing that?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think also LinkedIn, uh, or just Jose Matukora dot com. I'm, um.

Speaker A: All right, Amazing.

Speaker B: Thank you so much again.

Speaker A: Thank you, Jose.

Speaker C: Thank you, Kim.

Speaker A: What a fun time to our audience. If you enjoyed the show, please check out more conversations like this at Dojo Live and you can subscribe to all of our channels to see what's coming next. Until then, stay curious, stay innovative, and bye for now.