The Connected Journey: Paco Pérez-Lozao on What’s Next in Travel & Hospitality

Speaker A: Welcome to Doja Live, the place where top minds in travel and hospitality check in to share insights and breakthroughs shaping the industry. Brought to you by Ankora, your trusted partner for AI cloud and data driven innovation. Enjoy your stay. Welcome to Dojo Live, everyone, here in New York City. City at the Amadeus Media event. We just wrapped that up and it was fantastic. I'm um, thrilled to be joined by Paco Perez Lau, who is the president of hospitality at Amadeus. Um, Paco, first of all, thank you so much. I would like to shake your hand. You know, thank you so much for your time to speak to us today. We're excited to dive into what's new, um, with the Amadeus research and kind of everything you found, what you're working on, what you like to kind of highlight on for what that means for the future. Um, but I'd like to kick us off in the here and now, if that's all right by you. And it's one of the, with one of the most sort of popular kids on the block right now, conversational A. That generative AI piece, you know, it's moving so fast, it's becoming so commonplace. What do you think its place is currently or will be in sort of the travel inspiration piece, the search, the booking, you know, what's this going to look like in the next few years? Years?

Speaker B: Well, I think, uh, we are going to see a lot of change, that's for sure. We are just touching, uh, the tip of the iceberg, um, the way we will search for our travel, uh, especially the leisure travel where we're at some point looking for. I mean the journey really starts when you're beginning to think about where to go. No, in leisure. Okay, so then that is where AI techniques can help a lot. No, I mean, you tell them. Look, I would like to my concrete case, five, uh, days free in December now. Okay. There is this bridge a little bit there. So what do we do? Okay, let's go with a family if we can, to an interesting place. Otherwise the kid don't come with us anymore. Okay. And then, uh, uh, it has to be not too cold. It has to have culture. Uh, it should be ideally direct flight from Madrid, where we live. Okay. Not longer, hopefully than three hours because of four days. You don't want to fly very far away.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And uh, uh, so what are you proposing? And you can do that now. Okay. And then it comes back. It came back in this case with three ideas. One was Cyprus, the other one was Malta and the other one was Tunisia. Okay. And then the next step you say, okay, fine, uh, can you propose me an itinerary? What would that look like? Okay. And then you get an itinerary. Okay. And then you. Yeah, it's too much, uh, restaurants in there. I would like to have more. So what is there a museum of something? Okay. And then you explore instead of with paper and all that.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You explore in interaction. So that's going obviously. Then the next step would be. Okay, book it for me.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We are not there yet. Okay. But that is going to come, I think, very, very quickly. Okay. So then that's stressing the whole ecosystem of technology. It's going to be, it's going to be a new way. From a perspective of the hotels, for example, I think it's going to be almost like a new distribution channel. Okay. Now the way you interact with people there will be very different.

Speaker A: Right. Okay. Because even the booking side. Okay, now I'm there. I've chosen Tunisia. I would like my hotel walkable from just these layers of similar interactions.

Speaker B: Well, the layers in my case were. Okay, what is it better than to rent a car or to take public transportation? Get the pros and cons. Okay. I think I'd rather go for the car then. By the way, if I go to these places, can you recommend me where to park? Because these are uh, some old sites and then maybe there's no parking available there, whatever. And then it plans out the parking. Even the parking. Okay. And you even didn't yet ask for restaurants, so it's amazing. Okay. So that is the world, I think, in which we're moving as leisure. Okay. I would say that business is very different because it's uh, a, it's efficiency, it's more a transactional type of travel. Okay. I want to get through here, from here to there, but still. Okay. I think that hotels, for example, can also adapt their offering to their business traveler. No. What does a business travel care about? Efficiency. The breakfast, the WI fi, maybe a parking lot. Uh, that's it. Okay. Any quiet room. Okay. And they want, uh, not to see anybody. Okay. Check in, check out. No people at all. Okay. Ideally, everything on my app for leisure, it's different. I want to meet somebody. Okay. So then, uh, again, I think all these differences, that's going to come.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: And that's stressing the whole tech ecosystem. No. Because the tech ecosystem is not able yet to cope with all of that. So slowly it has to move in that direction.

Speaker A: Slowly moving that direction. Thinking of the possibilities where that search is happening. Because with the leisure side, it's an individual from their home, chatgpt, co pilot, whatever. And then maybe the business side is going to be coming out of um, with the, the, the tour management or the travel management system. Who's, who's using that? So how is Amadeus itself planning to kind of keep up and, and stay ahead of all these rapid, rapid changes? So, and this is a two sided question. How are you planning for it and what advice do you have for your customers and your partners so that they can also plan to keep?

Speaker B: I mean, I think so. First of all you need to put your mindset into this is an opportunity and is a threat at the same time. So it's an opportunity if you embrace it, but it's a threat if you fall behind because so many things are going to change and if you're not up to speed, you may be sidelined very quickly. No, they say it's a fastest uh, wave of adoption of a technology ever. Okay. It's true that it moved some um, places into paralysis because you don't know where to invest because you say, oh, this thing is moving so fast. I'm investing into version three and then when I finish that project it's almost, there's version six of that whole thing going on. Okay. So you're like saying, am I doing the right thing? But it's a moment when you need to jump into the cold water. Okay. Into to some extent the unknown. Uh, okay, so then I think uh, so for AI, we really have put a governance in Amadeus. So because you don't want to do the wrong things either. Okay. In terms of how you use the data, etc. Okay. And not to pass the boundaries, um, respect regulation that you need to, especially in Europe to be careful with that. Okay. Well everywhere actually no. You also want to be a responsible actor. Okay. So then we are here for the long term so we don't want to really play with things especially data privacy and data security. All that stuff needs to be absolutely respected. Okay. But then we created a governance and then we have a combination of top down projects that we're trying to push and of bottom up AI projects as well. In total it's, I think in Amadeus right now we have like 600 AI related projects going on. Okay. So then it's a massive transformation almost everywhere. There is though, I would say uh, a big friction point which is that AI requires good uh, access to well sorted out data, uh, okay. Operationalized data. Okay. And I would say that that is probably the uh, biggest friction point Today in order to move faster into the realm of AI, which is the availability of data, uh, for those type of techniques. Okay. So then we try also to do this new innovation always together with customers, for example. So obviously you need to talk to customers a lot and you need to understand what their requirements are at the end of the day. I mean, this is a fast moving world. Uh, you talk to partners as well. We talk to the likes of Microsoft or Google, as you saw here today, or Salesforce or IBM. So what's going on? Uh, where do you think we could cooperate together? It's more, by the way, more and more about cooperation because many of these use cases, they go beyond actually your perimeter. So you need to work with Microsoft or with Google, etc. Etc. On use cases to go either for customers. And we do a lot together with, uh, customers. We like that. So for example, I mentioned before, discover the destination business, where we are. Let's say the first challenge is how to aggregate all that content. Now that you have it is then how can I make it easy for you as a traveler to adapt that content to you? So we use an AI layer for that. Instead of ticking boxes, you just say, okay, I'm going, I like scuba diving, but I also like in general water sports. And uh, I'm this, and these days in this type of destination, what can you offer me? Okay, so then you narrow it down and when you don't like it, you then continue. But I'm not that or whatever. Okay, and with my family. So what is it that we can share between the family? Not just individualists. I mean, again, you can go on and on and on. Okay, so that is something that we are now experimenting with, uh, travel agency, largest travel agency in New Zealand for two years now. Courthouse of travel. And they saw, by the way, a 20% adoption of that. Okay. And then with them together we're learning, okay, what's inhibiting further adoption? How do you see the use cases? What else do we need to do? And we continuously adapt. So there's a lot of money at the end spent in, invested this, you mentioned that. No 1.5 billion, um, euro a year that we have to spend on engineering to just keep going because the world never stays still. Okay? You still, you need to permanently invest into these future things. Okay. So that's the only way you can stay relevant at the end, uh, for your customers and for their customers. We are helping our customers engage with their customers.

Speaker A: And given this investment and we talked about this kind of flow. The inspiration, the inspiration Piece comes the conversion. Hopefully, you know, agentic AI that becomes the booking. Then of course there's the experience itself of the traveler and the stay. So that flows into the loyalty piece to make, to kind of make sure that all of this investment has been worth it. Right. So I found it interesting that in this research that you're going to be launching that a hotel loyalty came out on top above other programs like airline and credit card, and for both the business side as well as the leisure side. What's your take? Can you give me your perspective on why this is and how loyalty is going to be evolving, particularly in the hospitality space?

Speaker B: Of course, upfront. I also was surprised because I thought that it was the airline loyalty systems that really are prevailing and everybody's mind the first thing. Okay. And thinking about that, maybe one explanation could be that hotels have so much to offer in terms of, um, additional things. No. And maybe that's why people say, okay, for me it's very important if I want to redeem my points that I can have, let's say that experience type of thing, and therefore the loyalty becomes more important. I don't know. I mean, that's the only thing that came to my mind, to be honest.

Speaker A: I was thinking that too. Maybe it's like the constant peace piece. I mean, in some ways you're limited by which airline is going to take you to one place. But if there is a particular brand, hotel brand to almost everywhere that you're going, you can expect that consistency. But then there's the balance of consistency with, you know, the personalization to the place and making it unique.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. So, but I mean, loyalty in general, which I know is a very important topic, know for, for everybody, which is a recurring side of things. How can I make you recurringly come back to me? How can I also, for marketing distribution purposes, focus around you rather than always going through intermediaries, for example, as well?

Speaker A: Hm.

Speaker B: No. That's also where the loyalty schemes become very important. There was also today a discussion you saw, uh, people, the youngsters are. They continue to be loyal to the brands or not is a change of mentality here, by the way, is the way we're going to search using AI techniques, is that going to reduce the element of loyalty because you're uh, looking for other things beyond just let's say the known part or that the loyalty scheme brings to you. Okay. The experience, I want to enrich experience and not necessarily what you find in the loyalty scheme, um, of a given brand. Is that going to be good enough for me. Okay. But so these are the challenges also. I'm pretty sure that the experts in loyalty schemes are also trying to address in order to see how they can expand also the content of what loyalty schemes provide. So to create also more this experience type of thing for the especially the

Speaker A: leisure traveler again and making the content scheme teams accessible by the LLMs.

Speaker B: Exactly. So that you're well at the end is a little bit like a competition. It's called petition between the different channels, different ways of doing things, you know,

Speaker A: tied to the loyalty part. I was also pleasantly surprised to find that this number, 73% of travelers say that they would rebook with providers who handle disruptions, you know, uh, efficiently, transparently. First of all, this made me happy because we're not all, as we say in the United States, Karens. Right. We can, we hopefully we're still understanding that this is the real world and stuff happens, but it feels like disruption management is going to also become a real competitive edge for companies. How and what I wanted to bring up here was this idea of the automation piece with the technology versus the augmentation piece of the technology. Because of that all important sort of human to human touch that's required in travel and particularly in hospitality. You know, do you see this as one of those areas where tech can augment the process?

Speaker B: Um, I would.

Speaker A: And where human touch is still sort of irreplaceable?

Speaker B: Yes. I think in these situations. And you see that from the, from the results of research. Yes. People want to be able to touch, talk to somebody because it gives them much more confidence. Okay. But that person, what they do, needs to be backed up by technology so that they can really focus on that human interaction. And still, as you know, the experience today can be absolutely horrible. The other day, I tell you, as an example, there was a disruption in Nevada because of weather. I was flying out of Vegas. Okay. Uh, uh, on business. This wasn't leisure. Okay. And I had a connecting flight back to Europe to Madrid. Okay. And then my flight, the connecting, the first leg got delayed. And then when I arrived at that connecting airport here, it was probably the most horrible experience I've had in years. Okay. Um, the queues were of people there and people getting angry, really. And there was very tense use of two to three hours waiting time, including with families with their babies and so

Speaker A: on, just to try to get an

Speaker B: answer, just to try to get a new booking at the airline desk where you had four clerks having to probably service at that airport because, uh, weather disruption was not only here, it was in the region, okay? So like probably thousand, two thousand passengers there, okay? Queuing up the tension that was there in the air because of the waiting times and then, uh, the poor people at the desk on the airline. But also, I mean, and I said, guys, I mean, there is technology today by which you could almost instantly rebook them and send it to their mobile phone. Nobody needs to stand at the queue, okay? Just send them. They knew. They tell them that's your new flight that has been booked, okay? Or you have these two options, click on one whatever, and then go to this hotel, here's a hotel. Uh, you don't need to even negotiate. And they give you still these vouchers type of thing. And then you go out and no, no taxi driver wants to take the voucher because they are, uh, sort of speculating that you will pay. So it was, and this was in America, in the U.S. i mean, imagine that happens to you when you're in, uh, in, in India or wherever. I mean, it is, it is like, I mean, honestly unacceptable for what it is today, what you would expect. Honesty, unacceptable customer experience. Okay? It's true that you really want to talk to the people there because you maybe want reassurance of this or that, but it is just, I mean the way this was handled was it's the

Speaker A: opposite piece of automate vast portion. And then that percentage of people where it's just not going to work for them can then get that one.

Speaker B: And by the way, and you can do that for the hotel. I mean, you rebook them on hotel. In Europe you could do that. Okay. I book you even on rail. Okay. I mean, we're snowstorm. Okay. Uh, airports, for example, uh, in, in many places where they snow in winter get disrupted all the time. Okay, so how do you deal with that? Because it's not one off. It's a recurring thing.

Speaker A: Hm.

Speaker B: Okay. And again. And again it's handled in a, for my, in my opinion in a very, very poor way. Okay. That's about the most horrible experience. The other one, which is very horrible is, is a, uh, baggage. Okay. So when baggage gets lost in connecting flights, okay. And you are traveling somewhere on leisure, I, uh, mean, and you're, I mean that creates a lot of anxiety and that gets also handled quite poorly today. Okay. So then again, lots of room for improvement, to be honest. Okay.

Speaker A: So disruption management is definitely a space to focus on.

Speaker B: And it happens all the time. It really happens all the time. Disruption. Okay.

Speaker A: Do you think the technology exists currently to handle it or it's Still a matter of just piecing it together or is.

Speaker B: I would say that the technology building blocks exist. Okay. It requires not only technology, it requires, for example, that you have agreements with the hotels and God knows also there's also a whole set of service processes and commercial things in the back that need to take place. But generally I would say it exists today. Okay, very cool.

Speaker A: You know, in a relatively recent conversation on Doja Live with Katie Morrow, she talked about how delivering modern retailing and the ability to personalize hotel sales is a big goal. Another one kind of of Amadeus. You know, as the head of Amadeus Hospitality, what do you think about the potent, this potential area for hoteliers? What kind of excites you about that? And I believe there's a piece too in this report about if travelers are willing to pay, how much they're willing to pay. I mean, what are we looking like in terms of this tools to help?

Speaker B: Well, that's one of our preferred subjects and that's actually one of the subjects we were, uh, investing most. Okay, let me start by explaining. There are several, several things in, especially in the hospitality industry that I think inhibit or create friction in what you would call modern merchandising. What is modern merchandising? Think about Expedia or whatever, that you can sort of slice and dice content. I would like to have that type of experience. See View or I'm on leisure, therefore, that's what I care about. So then, but today, uh, you have, the first friction point is that in the hospitality industry you have many actors and they're using different sets of technology that overlap between each other. Okay, let me explain that. So the hotels use a property management system that has today the rates, the room inventory, they even have direct connection to distribution channels. They have guest profiles. Okay. So they can virtually. And that's where the industry is coming from, operate autonomously. Okay. But then now you have the brands on top and the brands, they are trying to become the distribution channel because that's where the value add is and the loyalty scheme. And they want to do that in a modern merchandising way. Okay, so what happens? The first thing is that you have data here and data there and they don't coincide. Okay. So it's very difficult to begin to do retailing at scale if to begin with your inventory is split up between what you have locally and what you have here. Okay, how are you going to do that? Okay. How are you going to provide consistency? Okay. So that, so these systems need to be very well tuned and connected. But Today there is data overlaps everywhere where you look that they try to synchronize, but uh, it's a very, I would say, still not a good way today. Okay, so then if you're a brand, what you're trying to do is because especially of the new techniques like AI, they require a lot of data consistency. They are trying to create that data consistency within the state. Okay, that's a, that's the first thing. Okay. The second thing that we're seeing is that evidently in order to do that in the modern way, you need to move all this stuff to the cloud. Okay. And you would be surprised still how many properties today still operate on prem solutions. Okay. So that is a big friction point. Okay. The third one is that today the world of hospitality lives on the concept of a hotel room. Okay. Hotel rooms were hard coded actually when the GDSs were conceived in the late 60s. Okay. Where they hard coded, uh, okay, uh, a double room and a single room sort of. Okay. And since then the whole industry, the hospitality industry, including the OTAs, including the METAs, everybody lives on the concept of a, uh, room type. Okay. And it's trying to, for the richness of what hotels can offer, which goes far beyond the room type, is trying to sort of create bandages around that in order to be able to bring the richness of what the hospitality industry can provide to the customers and by adding, let's say a double room with this, double room with that, with this view, with that view, single room with that. But again, it's always circling and primarily circling about you reserve a room with these sort of attributes. Now what together with Interconti years ago, uh, uh, we sort of developed is a concept of. Okay, let's forget about room types because every inventory system today, which is at the core of the tech stack of the hotel brands, okay, every, every is a derivative and lives with that hard coded sort of way of looking at it. No, double room, single room, sort of. Okay, so then let's look at it in a different way. Let's look at it in what we say, the decomposition of the logical components of what the room is. So what is the logical composition of a room? It's a double bed or king size bed, Queen. It's uh, high floor, low floor, it's sea view, garden view. As hotelier you get actually the freedom to decide what it is. Okay, it can be actually maybe not only of the size of the room. It can by the way, be not only room stuff, it can be non room stuff. What about the breakfast what about the parking lot? What I get the spa? What I get the. I don't know, the golf. Okay. The pool. So I can add non room attributes into that. So you compose a physical, a logical inventory of all that. And I will let you now choose. So you can do that by clicking on what your preferences would be and then I shoot back to you a composition of those attributes and I price it at the same time. And all that probably by understanding who you are first with some signals like digital advertisers do. And in 100 milliseconds I shoot back to you a composition with price that in my experience so far has shown me that it brings the highest conversion.

Speaker A: Okay, crazy because when you think about like especially the younger generations and it's more about experience now than the. Where a hotel or a resort being able to put together the uh, I don't know, the turtle hatching experience.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And so you have the room most closest location to the beach for the hatching is going to occur and all these things and maybe there's some like themed dinner that goes along with it. I don't, what do I know? I don't know. But like to, to uh, now allow us to start at the experience versus the.

Speaker B: Exactly. So that's one component of that. That's one component. Now let's say I would say the hotel or property specific things that you would get there. No. Or the brand specific things. Uh, but as you say you want to go beyond a experience and that's why we have this discover. So we are now have developed a tool by which we aggregate all the local content. So we think we have universal content of local activities condensed together. And because it's so rich and by just searching in a traditional way by say that sort of clicking on things, it doesn't work. So we have created an eye layer on top of it by, by which you can sort of interact with the model so that it's much easier to adapt to what you're looking for. Okay, that's for destination specific stuff. Okay. But the first thing we are talking about is just the hotel specific sort of thing which can be massively enriched. Okay. That's what we're working on. So then they do then obviously all the systems need to adapt to that because then the way today a property management system work, uh, cannot be held anymore. I mean it needs to accept that the room assignation will probably come from the central system as well. Because if you look for high flow, blah blah, blah. Okay. It is a set of specific rooms Already. So you cannot do the room allocation and property or you have less leeway to do that. Okay. So that is the world in which we are moving and adding into that. I, let's say this experience side of things as well. And we see good traction, good interest, not only from travel agencies that are, uh, upselling that, but also hotels say, okay, if I could offer that to my guest property level when they are here already, it enriches experience, can be done prior, uh, booking as well, maybe. Okay, so there's a, that's part of, let's say, moving to this world of experience. Okay.

Speaker A: Personalization, the great P word brings me to another key word. That's the privacy piece.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So how are you balancing, or how do you see, you know, helping companies balance the hyper personalization piece with the privacy piece? What are you looking out for with this? And what would you counsel others to

Speaker B: also be looking out for, Molly? Okay, I would try to be. Okay. Uh, my answer is going to be generic. Okay. So obviously we need to be absolutely respectful of data privacy and the ethical way we're going to touch the data. Okay. And we need to comply with regulations as well. So we have created in Amadeus a central sort of group that takes care that we are not going off limits. I mean, obviously we want to present ourselves as a trustworthy and reliable partner for the future. So for us, it's an absolute must that we will respect all that. Okay, so then that's a non, I would say non negotiable, basic item that we need to comply with.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I would, I wanted to touch a little bit on the sustainability piece. Now, do we have time for this real quick or do you want to come over it? All right, perfect. So, um, I think that's amazing piece. You know, privacy personalization is extremely important. Privacy is extremely important. And more and more sustainability is important. Um, and I think this is coming from both the, the traveler side as well as the institution. Right. Governments and, um, compliance. So what role do you see Amadeus playing in helping DMOs? This came up in the conversation today as, as well as travel companies to use data and tech to kind of hit these sustainability goals. What's that going to be looking like?

Speaker B: I mean, there certainly there's an element or many of the things that we do are trying to do, uh, help do things more efficiently. Okay. For example, at airports we have solutions where we optimize a pushback. Okay. So for example, of the plane from the gate. Okay. So don't do that before this time. So that the aircraft is not there consuming fuel or load balancing. Okay. For the optimization of fuel consumption as well. Okay. So we have many of those solutions that are really trying to improve, uh, the way less costly, more efficient and uh, carbon calculators as well. You could insert that into the search processes as well. No, optimize for carbon calculation. Okay, you could do that. The hotel industry is also moving to that direction. No sustainability. So there is an organization called the World Hotel Sustainability association, whsa and we are talking to them as well about how can we help uh, the hotel industry with their sustainability sort of requirements by helping them aggregating data, uh, or giving them data to self manage themselves into that. Okay. So for example, also internally we're trying to make our systems more efficient. Okay. Um, I mentioned know that as uh, especially agenti comes now there is a much more intensive use of the computers for example. So we're trying to optimize that as well. How can we reduce let's say the eco footprint in terms of how we use the machines, the logic of the machines, optimizing how software uses the machines as well. I mentioned that at the beginning for one reservation, when I joined Amadeus, 30 something years ago you would do on average 16 transactions for a booking. And today it's moving into the realm of 200,000 transactions per booking that goes into the machines and into that has an echo impact as well in terms of energy consumption. So then how can you optimize that as well? Okay. Because it's not sustainable to just extrapolate that at infinitum. Okay. So that's, these are uh, so we have also initiatives on this front.

Speaker A: Okay, I love it. Thank you. And this is the final question that leads us to this amazing conversation today. And that is when you're looking across the energy, excuse me, industry, you know, the biggest tech gaps that still exist. We talked a little bit about the building blocks that exist, how having to kind of piece those together. Um, what are the biggest gaps you're still seeing and how do you see that rollout happening? Are we in that crawl walk around run phase still? Is it going to be partnerships with, you know, this, the smaller kind of startups and like to get these things and then kind of being a unifying force. And how do you see this happening?

Speaker B: I mean to begin with we need to accept that we live in an ecosystem. So then you need to be able to partner with the ecosystem around you, whatever that may imply. Okay. You need to be open to that for sure. So in terms of the biggest challenge Today when you talk also to other companies in other industries, my experience is that they are all thinking about, okay, what, what, how can we embrace AI and geni? That's the most disruptive factor. No, that's coming now. Which is seen as a big opportunity or a big threat depending. No, if you don't move, it becomes a threat. Okay, so, so, and what is the, the biggest factor in terms of being able to move into this AI gen AI world is the data. It's the general feedback I received from other industries is we need to sort out our data, operationalize our data much better, which is what we discussed before also in this multi layered tech stack of the hospitality. So that is also a big friction point. So then how can I really uh, get to the data in a way that I can apply those techniques? And there are multiple use cases. Let me take one from the car industry for example. They are some of the big car producers. They have now big uh, platforms to push down the software to the cars. One of the big brands in Europe, they have like 1 million cars connected to this platform. Okay, to upload software. But what they also doing is they are reading how the cars are being used, the electric cars or the hybrid, so that they can, let's say, report back to governments. Okay, they are hybrid, but they are mostly used uh, in a conventional way, not with electricity. So how do you uh, improve your sort of charging, sort of grid in that country? Okay. Or for example, they use those in order to optimize the type of cars that they produce or for marketing purposes. Okay. Or they can even for commercial purposes. There was uh, I heard of somebody that was offered by the dealer to buy back that car because they were not using the car too much to pay them the original price and to get a good offer for a car that would adapt better to the way they were using that. Okay, Loyalty, loyalty, service. Okay. So, and then, so you see it's not a one way street selling to you. It's also me understanding how I can improve what I do. Okay, so it's a two way street of using data. Uh, and you have that almost in every industry because if you extrapolate that, that this cap producer, or for example there was another one, home appliances for energy, cold, heat and so on. They are moving into a concept of, it's an Internet of things at the end of the day and they want to help you optimize your energy consumption at home. Okay. Because they see what this, they install these appliances so they can use that for preventive maintenance. But they can also help you optimize your expense and your energy consumption because they read what you're doing. Okay. So if you can then use this data. Okay. And you can do the same thing in the travel industry. Airports, how are they being used? Uh, how can I uh, uh, improve the way I steer passengers to the airport, for example, how can I optimize uh, the airport traffic on the tarmac with the planes, how can I optimize between airports? Okay. Air traffic control, but in an automated way. Okay. Without any manual intervention. In theory it's just manual or human oversight. Okay. So there's so many things that you can do. Okay. And uh, we try to apply that, but again that relies on the availability of data. Okay. And then from there on you can then apply this techniques. And that is today the way I hear, and to repeat myself now, uh, is a, is a I the biggest friction point probably the way I hear that. Okay.

Speaker A: Right. Well, thank you. You know Paco, it has been a true pleasure speaking with you today. Learning from you today, being part of the Amadeus Media event. Looking forward to publishing all of this after your official research is launched. You know, of course we'll be um, um, link backing that to the site here. So folks, can.

Speaker B: I hope it's interesting for you to hear a little bit what we're struggling with now and, and, and, and what we're thinking about for the future. No. Okay, so thank you for having me and being able to talk about all that super interesting stuff as well.

Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, if you would like to invite anybody to you know, reach out and continue these types of conversations, the best way, way to be future forward in the industry, how might they go about doing that?

Speaker B: Okay, good. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker A: Perfect.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you. Goodbye.

Speaker B: M.