insightsoftware President Jennifer Warawa on How AI is Changing the Office of the CFO

Today's episode is brought to you by insightsoftware which provides AI -powered financial reporting solutions that can save you from spreadsheet sludge and give you time back for weekend fun. With Spreadsheet Server, you can spot trends in your data before they become problems and make faster, smarter decisions. Visit Inside Software slash reporting to see how it works. I'll drop the link in the show notes.

Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. I'm your host, Wassia Kamon, and each week we explore how top finance leaders help build high performance teams. partner with CEOs and board and lead through growth and transformation without burning out in the process. Our guest today is Jennifer Warawa.

She's a transformative executive with over 25 years of leadership experience, driving growth. innovation and cultural change globally. She's currently the president of Insight Software and her resume reads like a master class in transformation. From leading Quick Feed North America through major growth and expansion to holding multiple global executive roles at Sage for over 12 years, she has built a career at the intersection of innovation and impact.

Jennifer has been recognized as one of the top 25 most powerful women in accounting seven years running and was named the accounting today's top 100 most influential people for nearly a decade. I've been trying to do this one year. Okay. She's a sought after keynote speaker known for being refreshingly candid about leadership, resilience, and what meaningful change actually looks like in practice.

Welcome to the show, Jennifer. Thank you very much. That's, that was a lot, a lot to live up to there. Oh my gosh.

But it's your story. It's, it's amazing. And so I really wanted to start with that. So sound is your story.

How did you end up in this world of accounting software and now working so closely with CFOs? Yeah, that's a, it's a great question. You know, I, I look back to when I was, you know, in high school and finishing high school and those years when you think about, what do I want to do when I grow up? If that's the way to say it.

And at the time, as I was evaluating what that looked like, my dad's in -house accountant actually ended up leaving his business. And he said, well, why don't you go into accounting? And I was like, accounting? That doesn't sound very fun.

And so I decided to go down that path. And as I started on the journey and as I got kind of set into college, I fell in love with this telling the story of the numbers and the data. And it actually ended up with me starting my own accounting and consulting business. And I think it was exciting because it wasn't about debits and accredits or financial statements.

It was about having a, making sense of all of the data that was available to business owners and having it. presented to them in a way where it told a story and it helped them figure out, how am I going to get from where I am today to where I want to go in the future? And that was so fun and so exciting. When I moved into the software world, so when I had my own firm, I was a partner at Sage Software and ended up moving over to work with them directly.

And then eventually, of course, here I am at Insight Software. I've always looked at it through that lens. What does in person need that's trying to run the business? What story are their financial statements telling?

What decisions does the data tell them need to be made? And I think I've always found that exciting and empowering. And for people who are like his finance or, or being a CFO, I think it's incredibly exciting. And if you tell the story in the right way, it's like, what a great career choice.

Wow. So it's so fascinating that you went from accounting, like when we typically think about accounting, debits and credits, to software. It's like two opposite worlds, it feels like. But now you spend 25 years in that office of the CFO ecosystem, bringing the systems together with the people side.

And so what has fundamentally changed about the CFO role over those two decades? So much has changed. Oh my goodness. I think about even during my time at Sage when I'd be in the market and meeting with accountants, like I can have the beginning of that chapter and then 12 years later and how much change there was.

And now that level of change is actually happening in a much more compressed timeframe. So change is happening incredibly rapidly. I think what, what's changed the most is probably the expectation of the CFO. And I think they, they used to need the data.

Steward, the steward of the numbers, close the books, make sure that compliance is being adhered to. Provide your core that I almost think about them as, you know, kind of a function that stayed in their lane. So they were, they were kind of on the side of the business and now they're in the business. I think today's CFO is kind of a strategic co -pilot to the CEO.

They're often a technology decision maker. They're a talent leader. and they're someone who has the ability to translate uncertainty into a plan. So they're really a partner to the business versus a functional area that's on the side.

When I think about what hasn't changed, I think about the fundamentals of trust. So the board still needs to believe in the numbers and the CEO still needs to believe in the forecast. And all the technology in the world doesn't replace the credibility that CFOs build through integrity, consistency, accuracy. And I think that even in a world where we're heavily powered by AI, that's not going to change.

Agree, agree. And as a CFO role has changed, like you said, in how now they're no longer that back office person, like they're really at the forefront of the business. Do you feel like the people in the system supporting the CFO has kept up with those changes? Probably not just enough.

So I think with all the evolution of the CFO, even over the last decade, a lot of the systems and talent development models, if you will, are still catching up to where the role was maybe even five years ago, let alone where it is today. You look at really sophisticated finance teams that are running strategic analysis in spreadsheets. It's like, you know, I remember like a decade ago, people were like, oh, Excel is going to go away. It's still, it's used every day by accountants.

And so they're doing a sophisticated analysis and spreadsheets and the same spreadsheets that the company was maybe a tenth the size they are today. So we've got ERP systems that were implemented years ago that have so much technical debt that they're slowing down the business rather than enabling it. And we've got finance talent that's been hired and in some cases are coming out of school, they're forward thinking and they're using systems. that are, that are archaic.

We actually have seen a recent study where, you know, accounting students or the next generation accountants will actually turn down a job because the systems that are being used inside the business are inside the firm. And that's a, that's a big shift. Wow. They're like, we don't want to deal with like your old school stuff.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And do you think AI will help elevate the teams and systems so that they can finally catch up?

to the demands of the role of the CFO? Yeah, I think that AI has the potential to be transformative. I think there's still some skepticism around, is this a lot of hype? And where is it practical?

So I think being able to get finance teams to understand the practical applications of AI. And when you think about where there's so much time that's consumed on a finance team, think about data gathering, reconciliation, repetitive reporting cycles. And AI has the ability to compress all of those. And when you do that, it can free up human capacity for more strategic things like analysis for judgment for the actual work that requires a human to be involved.

And I think that's significant. I think it's really important to be careful because AI elevates what already works. So when you think about, you know, it amplifies, it's already there. So if your team is.

Yeah, working with data that's reliable, AI can be an accelerant, but if the data is not reliable, they're going to be disappointed. And so that's really, that's really important. It doesn't fix the problems that exist in the data today. Yeah.

And so what would you say are some of the things CFOs need to be aware of in that AI journey, right? Because I know you made a point that if a process is broken, AI just does the broken faster, right? And AI is just simplifying the issues we have. So what would you say is a good roadmap?

Because I feel like there is a lot of pressure now on CFOs and finance there to implement AI. Like, I want AI. Like, I want ketchup on my fries. So what would you say are some of the things I need to be aware of or some type of a roadmap to get there and do it the right way?

Yeah, I think the first thing probably is data integrity. If you don't trust your data today, then AI is just going to give you confident, fast, wrong answers. And so I think that's more dangerous than slow wrong answers because it looks like it has this level of authority where people are like, this must be right. And if you don't have data integrity, it's not right.

So that's it. That's a challenge for sure. Asking the CFOs. Do you have a single source of the truth?

Do your systems talk to each other or are there people that are manually bridging the gaps in these spreadsheets as an example? I think the other, the other thing that we see a lot of is around process discipline. You know, what are the processes today? Not what a CFO thinks they are, but what are people actually doing?

Like how are you leveraging that process math? And then, and then figuring out how do you standardize before you can automate? And then once you have the automation, you can apply AI. And so I think that that sequencing is really important, but I think sometimes you will just want to jump to AI.

Like AI will solve the problem. The process is broken today. AI can fix it. It's still the process.

They're still doing those manual steps. So making sure that that is in place, I think is foundational. Wow. And so when you think about bringing AI to an organization, I love how you say you start with data integrity.

you ask the right question to make sure the processes that you think are in place are actually in place, and not a lot of band -aids. Now, how do you think you can bring the teams along? Because there's typically two camps. There's the people who are excited about AI.

They want AI, too, because they used to have GPT and other things. And then you have people that are scared or skeptical about AI, maybe will take their jobs. How do you think leaders can talk to both groups and bring the whole team along in that journey? Yeah, it's a good question.

Certainly one that is top of mind for a lot of people and it actually slows down change. I've met with a number of people from the office of the CFO. They're like, we have a really good process today. I don't think we need AI.

I'm doing it well already. And they're just worried once AI comes in, their job goes away. I do think that the jobs that are more at risk of going away are the ones where someone's not using AI, to be honest. It's like, well, if you're doing things in the old school way, your value becomes less than if you're leveraging AI to make smarter decisions.

So I actually think there's more risk in not adopting AI. For the people that are scared, I don't dismiss the fear. I don't think that it's not unfounded. There are roles that are going to change.

My role has significantly changed because of AI. But historically, every wave of technology and finance shifted what people did. So when you think about moving, you know, from DOS to Windows or on -prem to cloud, those were big significant shifts in the way that finance teams worked, but it never ever eliminated the need for smart people to make good judgment. So I think, you know, when I'm talking to people in a finance function, I'll say, what do you, what do you want to be known for?

If the answer is, you know, I want to be known for the person who pulls the data, which is almost never the answer. Let's know what people want to be known for. But that's a very vulnerable position. If the answer is, I'm a person who interprets the data and I help people make better business decisions, that's a much more valuable position.

So I think that AI makes you more powerful in that role. I think that in the excited champ, there's people who just want to jump in and go. They're enthusiastic and they're like, let's just put our foot on the gas and go. I say curb the enthusiasm a little bit and turn that enthusiasm into learning because there is a lot of learning.

And I even think about how we leveraged AI a month ago is different than how we do it today. Like so much has changed. I think about a lot and how much has changed in 30 days. And so that learning is so important.

So enthusiasm without learning is a challenge. And then just really making sure that no one thinks AI is magic. So like when people are excited, don't think about this as a kind of a silver bullet. It has limitations.

There are places where human judgments are irreplaceable. You need the human in the loop. And so I think that, you know, you want leaders that are enthusiastic, but also rigorous and making sure that all of those foundational pieces are in place. Yeah, and I like how you mentioned that human element.

I wanted to spend a little more time on it when you mentioned having the human in the loop. What are some of the things that people have to realize you will always need a human to make X decision or to do X things? Like what are some of the things you've seen in your role, especially at Inside Software? Yeah, I think when I look at where humans play such an important role, there's so much context right now that a human can provide.

AI is getting better at providing it, but there's all of this business context and how do you make smart decisions based on what AI is giving you and telling you like, you can assimilate, you know, so much more data. Like I think, but when I started this role now, so it's, I haven't even been a year and how much more data I had at my fingertips and how much faster I'm getting it. That's amazing. But then I have to assimilate all that data and say, how do we turn that into a strategy?

And that's still actually me. I have the business context. I'm the one sitting down with the customers. I know what's going on in the market.

And I think over time AI will get. better at that context, but sitting across the table from a customer or a user of your solutions or the customer or client of an accountant, you're not going to be able to replace that face to face, but AI should make you smarter. So I think it's about figuring out how do I leverage it in a way where I add more value to the conversation, regardless of what my role is. And that's where the human element is so important.

You know, I think back to when I was talking about the beginning of my career, Yeah, people already had access to financial statements. They knew, I said, okay, I see my income statement. I see my balance sheet. I have no idea what that means.

And so being able to step in and kind of interpret and say, you have a lot of data here. Let's talk about what this practically means for your business. That role is becoming significantly more important as we move forward. Yeah.

And as that role becomes more important, how do you think actual finance professional and accounting professional as it will have more time? because AI will help them do more. How do you think they need to upgrade how they think or upscale themselves or learn new things to adapt and use that new time they will have more effectively as business partners? Well, when I look at, and I always look at what do I want from our finite team, you know, as I'm leading my areas in the business, what would I like to be able to get?

And I think the more that they can have the context understanding of the business, the better. So they're not coming in saying, you know, here's your financial statements, because my next question is always why. So I see that this is down year over year. Why?

I see that, you know, our margins have increased here. Why? And so kind of curious people in the finance function that want to understand the why, they don't want to just provide the information to the business, but they really want to understand the business and get the business context makes them an incredibly valuable partner. So I think just being curious, learning the context, knowing what it is we're trying to do and being able to come with the why and the insights is hugely valuable.

It saves me from having to get to that. If someone in finance comes to me with, here's what we've seen and here's why it looks like it's happening, it gets me to a decision and an action faster. And it saves me having to do that. So it makes a finance person so much more valuable.

Wow. And so now I'm also curious because you move from, you know, accounting and finance to now president and over operations. And so I'm curious now from your seat, when you look back at finance, what are some of the things that you like? Okay, we did this wrong.

We thought it was going to help the CEO. We thought it was going to help the president, but we keep doing the same thing wrong from your seat. And what are some of the things you wish your financing or finance function in general will realize about helping the business? Yeah, I mean, I think when you look back, I ever want to look back and say, Oh, I did so many things wrong or would have done them differently.

I think being able to I don't think I anticipated how long change would take in the finance and accounting space. Like I think even when you looked at the early days of cloud, as an example, it's like, okay, well, this is going to be a, you know, a couple of year trend they share. You have been saying back to big data and that was a term, you know, that was a term that was used. People are like, how do I take advantage of big data in a smaller company?

Now every company has access to big data through AI. And so I think the, what I probably. thought was, hey, this is going to, all of the firms and all of the finance functions will move quickly because this just makes logical sense. It's been a very long transition.

So I think moving faster than the market is the huge competitive advantage. So as we're looking at AI and I think there's a tendency for finance teams to look around at other finance teams and say, well, they're moving at, you know, they're moving at this speed. We're moving, you know, maybe a little bit faster. That's not what's going to give you the competitive advantage as a finance leader or in a company.

It's how do we move faster than the market? So I wish, you know, I wish I would have done that. I think I thought the market would move faster overall and it didn't. And it's still, it's still kind of behind.

I think the other one is how do you really leverage that big data? Like how do you overlay all the information you get from your ERP system or your finance data? with intelligent insights about your customers and sales and all the different things you are going on in your business. Because if you're just telling the story based on the data that comes from finance, you're missing the rest of the picture.

And so how do you start to integrate different data points? And I wish I would have got to that earlier. It's hard. You know, earlier in my career, you didn't have the tools and the systems.

Those were only available to really large companies. Now they're available to everyone, but not everyone is using them. Let's take a quick break to talk about a problem most financing face. You spend hours wrestling with data, building a report manually, and by the time you are done, the insights are outdated.

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how your finance team operates. I'll also drop the link in the show note. Now let's get back to our episode. Oh, that, that last one is so powerful because, um, we, you know, in accounting and finance, we tend to just take the information from the accounting system, from the ERP when there is so much context, like you said, that can be gathered from the CRM that can be gathered.

Like you can have those lagging and leading indicators in one place. So in terms of tools and systems, what are some of the things you think can help teams, especially in smaller companies? Like you said, because there's so much that is available to large enterprise, but then you think about small to medium sized businesses, we feel like, okay, we don't know where to go. So curious to hear your experience there as well.

Yeah, it's hard for people to figure out where to start. So they're looking at companies that have embraced AI or technology. you know, from end to end and they're like, I just don't have the resources or the capacity or the people to be able to do that. So how do you, how do you pick somewhere and start somewhere?

And I think anyone that starts somewhere will be further ahead in, you know, by the end of 2026. And if they wait and say, I got to do it all at once. And so I'll always encouraging smaller companies. They're like, I don't know where to start.

It's like, just pick something, pick somewhere and say, I'm going to start here. We're going to automate what we can. We're going to leverage AI to get better insights. I, I want to think about what are the technology solutions and the tools that are going to help me look out the windshield instead of the rear view mirror.

So I've looked at, you know, financial statements and the history and what got us here, but what's going to get us ahead in the future. And it is that, you know, multiple data sources coming together, giving you the context for how you got to where you are and then where do you need to go in the future? So. I think it's starting somewhere.

You don't have to do everything at once, but picking somewhere and going deep can have such a meaningful impact. Wow. And that's some of the things like, at least at ACE we're trying to do and, you know, using the, the systems that we already have. And we've seen a lot more, you know, systems embed AI in, so it's like a...

I would say a more comfortable environment. Cause you're already in like, like Excel and co -pilot, right? Like you already in the environment that you've been operating in. And so you start, you know, doing your baby steps with AI, but I agree.

You definitely have to start somewhere. Yeah. And I do think that Microsoft and co -pilot and the AI that's embedded in the tools with accountless use every day. I think that's made a huge impact because there are already trusted solutions that have been around for a long time.

And so when they start to. That's a good place to get their feet wet and start thinking about what that could look like. And then it can, it can grow from there. Oh yeah.

Cause I feel I was just having a call yesterday. We're talking about Excel and he was like, Excel is our comfort food. Like we, we, we hold on to Excel. So as much as we can embed power into it is always great.

It's always good. Yeah. Our son is in college and he is taking an Excel course and he's like, I don't like, am I even going to use this? I'm like.

All I can tell you is I use it every day. Like I don't, I don't even know, but I guess there's jobs where you won't use it, but I can tell you it is like, it becomes a staple. Like it's just, there's so many applications. So.

Yes. Yes. There is no way to, to, especially if you're doing anything numbers, um, you will deal with Excel. Yes, absolutely.

And so when you think about AI in general, what's one risk around AI that you think is underplayed and what is something that you think, um, is probably overhyped when it comes to it. I know you mentioned thinking it's magic, but I'm curious about a risk in particular that you think people may not be thinking enough about. I think there's a lot of tendency to rely on the output, and I think there's times when that is okay, when you're, you know, if you're asking AI, what should I have for dinner?

And, you know, and what's a good recipe for that? That's if they get it kind of wrong, that's okay. It's not okay in finance, right? So you, there's an over -reliance on the outputs because you get so comfortable with it in your personal life that you're like, oh, it's, it's good.

It's really good. It's, it's, but in many cases it's better than human outputs. That's great. But they don't understand the inputs.

So I think there's, um, you know, in finance is just professional obligation to understand where a number came from. So when AI generates a forecast or variance analysis. It's easy to quickly almost present that as truth and be like, well, AI did it. This is, you know, it was fast, especially for the generation that's really comfortable with AI and technology.

But where it looks clean, it looks good, but where did the, where did the inputs come from? And so I think it's always understanding the inputs that came in, then drove the output. I think it's, it's not understanding that is underplayed. risk.

I think it's that super, super form. It's kind of like, you know, when I learned accounting, I learned on a manual ledger. Like we had a ledger book and it was debits and credits. And when you got into computerized accounting, which I did also in college, I'm not that old, but you know, you, you learn manually first because then when you're on the computer, I know exactly what needs to be done to reverse a journal entry.

You understand it. And it's that manual piece first. So it's the same kind of thing with AI understand. where the data came from and what those inputs were before you really trust the outputs.

Wow. It's so true because it can look good, but not be right. Absolutely. Yeah.

It can look really good and it can sound really smart. And not be right. And yeah, you didn't know what the input and you don't have a clear idea of what right should look like. You're going to take it at face value and I can definitely see that as a risk because we won't be able to just blame AI and say, AI did it.

I mean, they'll always come back to you. Absolutely. That's why you're the human in the loop. You're the one who's just to validate.

That's right. Yes. Yes. Now I want to pivot a little bit.

I know you've been advising a lot of CFOs around big complex things. I want to shift to you, really, your story, because you build an impressive impressive leadership career in tech and finance. Have you been named in so many, so many places? So I'm curious, what helped you get to where you are now that people may not see from the outside?

There are so many things. I want all the tea. All right. Well, that's a good question.

I think I'm naturally curious. Like I really want to understand how things work and I don't want to. I was never satisfied just staying in my lane. I don't want to be in a finance function and not understand the rest of the context on what's going on in the business.

I want to understand the customer's world. When I had a firm, I want to understand my client's world, the partner's world, the engineer's world. So I think there's a lot of curiosity there that got me, I guess, to where I am. I think that played into it.

I also think I'm... I'm not afraid to take on things that are, that are new. And I love that curiosity kind of drives you to figure out how do we solve complex problems? Like it's all like the Rubik's cube of business.

Like show me something that's really messed up and I really like to get involved. So whether it's a startup or a turnaround or something that isn't working or isn't yet defined, I just naturally love that and would jump in. And I also. and not afraid to put in the cycle of the time.

Like I just, when you kind of get immersed in solving something, you kind of get lost in the excitement of it and you, you go fast. So I think those are some things that helps me get where I am today. Okay. And so you juggle big roles and you speak, you're a great speaker as well.

And you also have a full home life. So how do you actually keep all these things going without burning out? Yeah, I don't think that I've always got that right. So just to be like, I'm not like that.

Let me tell you how you never get burned out. So I think, you know, one of the ways I think is really important for anyone that's in a leadership role when you're thinking about how do I avoid burning out, really looking at where you're spending your time. And sometimes I found that I was spending my time doing things because I hadn't invested enough in the people around me. So it's, it's, I, I should have someone on my team that can run with that, but I haven't spent enough time investing in them to learn that or to be able to take it over.

And so making sure that you're building a really strong team in your personal life and in your work life to support, you know, that, that momentum and go forward direction, I think is really critical. I also think as far as burnout can be. you know, kind of a result of maybe doing something that you don't launder or passionate about. Like you're, it's, it's much more tiring.

If you're, if you're dreading going to work every day, you're like, Oh, I'm doing something I just don't like. When you are passionate about it and you love it, it kind of fuels you up and creates this buffer for, you know, you also should be careful because sometimes you're passionate and it means that you can keep running. Even though you should probably stop and take a break. So you have to be aware of that, but I think just building that strong ecosystem inside and outside the office, and then just making sure that you're doing something you're passionate about.

It just keeps filling up your, your tank, if you will. Oh yeah. I definitely noticed that I feel energized, like doing this podcast, for example, but how do you do a podcast? I'm like, it gives me so much energy.

I enjoy it. I don't see it as a, and so I can definitely relate to that, but I never thought about. um making sure you have the support system at home like how do you build that branch because i understand as a leader you know at work sometimes you have that tendency of saying it will take me less time to do it myself um but spending the time i can see the volume spending the time in training and teaching someone else to help you do that but how do you do it at home especially the kids asking for a friend yeah yeah i mean i i think It's okay to know when you need additional support.

I think there's, there can be a tendency, especially on, you know, mothers and women, they want to personally be able to do it all. And I think that it's okay to say, Hey, here's where I need some help. I'm going to need, you know, support on, you know, how we're doing meal planning or eating well, or keeping the house organized and clean, or how do we... You know, how do we make sure that we've got the right support?

And although there are lots of things that I could do, I do get help in areas that will allow me to invest in kind of where I'm passionate about. But I think there is a tendency because, you know, A type personalities just want to do it all themselves. Like it's faster for me to do it than to get someone else to do it. But it also takes, is that the best use of my time?

So if it's not the best use of my time, is there someone else that could do it that I'd be better off to redirect that to something that. I love to do, I'm passionate and it is the best use of my time. So, but it's hard because you want to do it all, right? Yes.

Yes. It's, it's so hard. Yeah. And you want to have it all at the same time.

And yeah, definitely need to pace yourself there. I agree. Yes. And so what helped you develop, um, confidence in speaking up in rooms where you might have been the only women, because accounting and tech are male dominated.

Very much, yeah. When I'm in round tables or, you know, small events, I always look around the room and often I'll count, like, how many women are in this room? We've got 100 people at this event or we've got 50 people at this event. How many are women?

And it's almost with a high, high level of certainty, it's a minority that are women. Like it's just, it's the industry in a way that we're in, right? And so for a number of years, I wasn't just the only one in the room. I was also the youngest person in the room, which is not the case anymore, unfortunately.

Um, but I was, you know, because I started my business, you know, relatively in my early twenties, getting out of college. And so, um, you feel like you just don't have the same level of credibility. Like I felt like I had a lot to prove on the credibility side. It's all these, you know, man that had been in the business for a long time and I am newer and I am an adult woman, right?

And so I think that this almost unamplified when I moved over a stage because I was an entrepreneur and now I'm moving into a corporate world. So now I felt like these people had all this corporate experience and I've been running a small business. So now they, when in actual fact I had experience that they didn't have because I've been running a small business, right? And I, and I've been in the accounting space that we were serving.

So I had a... I was fortunate enough to have a mentor early in my career who taught me, like, when you don't have the confidence maybe in yourself or you're like, I don't know how to, how to say this or go up against someone who has 20 more years of experience than me or is more dominant in a conversation. He's like, oh, feel free to lean back on the data. So it's not that your opinion has to come back and say, I don't agree with you because I think you're wrong or I believe this.

But when you say, I really appreciate what you're saying, Bill. I always pick Bill's name. I don't actually have someone named Bill that I'm talking about, but you know, I appreciate what you're saying, Bill. But when you look back at the data, it's actually telling a bit of a different story.

And let me walk you through that. It allows you to be able to kind of counter what someone else is saying in a confident way, even when you're in a room where you may not have all the confidence because It's not your opinion that you're bringing forward. It's the data. And so you said until you feel confident enough that you're just your opinion, which shouldn't matter until you feel like that can be the voice, lean on the data and build your confidence.

And it can really help me because then I always start with the data and be able to lead with that until I felt like my opinion had a place in the room. And I could start with that. Oh, I love it. I'm so going to steal that.

Thank you for sharing. Any other piece of advice you might want to share, especially from that mentor or as you grew in your career and now your opinion. Because I feel like, especially as women, things like imposter syndrome, not being able to speak up in those rooms kind of crippled us at some point in our career. So I'm always looking for more advice.

Yeah, that's a good one. been fortunate enough to get some really good advice over the course of my career. There are a few things that come to mind. I always check in with myself and people I see making sure that we don't confuse motion with progress.

And so, you know, when you, when you think about it in today's world, everybody is busy. Like you talk to people, it's like, oh, how are you all so busy? Everything's so busy. I think, you know, that word is overused.

But people have full calendars. They've got long task lists. They want to feel productive. And so what I was taught earlier is how do you make sure that you're moving towards something that matters?

So how do you prioritize the most important things? Because I think activity is really easy, but progress and results are what really counts. So it doesn't matter. You can do all the activity in the world.

And at the end of the day, if you don't hit the result, It has been for nothing. So how do you make sure that you're doing the right things instead of just staying busy? The other one is a piece of advice. I had an opportunity to meet a business leader who had a tremendous amount of respect for early in my career.

And I asked him, I had the same question for him, what's the one piece of advice to lead all these companies? And she said to me, it's amazing how far you'll get if you don't care who gets the credit. And I was like, whoa, that's really interesting. And he said, He said, it always comes out in the wash who did the work.

Even if you're like, hey, this person, they did it all. He said, I've got people in my business who will give full credit to someone else. I know they're the person who got it done. But at the end of the day, you're on a mission and you're trying to get to a certain place and how you get there and who gets the credit, it doesn't matter.

Just how do you get to that end destination? And it all comes out. So always thinking about how do you give the credit to others? How do you...

not feel like in order, I need to get recognized for that idea. Oh, it's like if someone else took my idea and they're, yeah, great. As long as we get it delivered, let's go, you know? So that was some really good advice that I've always respected and listened to.

And that's great leadership advice, like getting your team to focus on, are we actually making progress or are just, you know, being busy and also, like you said, being able to cheer them. It really comes back and help people enjoy your leadership. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing.

Thank you very much for the discussion today. I've really enjoyed it. Yes. I have one last question.

What is your favorite thing to do outside of work? I joke a little bit that I am solar powered. outside. So I guess people are like, well, why didn't you get a job outside?

I don't know. There's just no job and what I do gets outside, but I just love to be outside. So if it's a sunny and warm day, whether it's going for a walk or being on the water or, you know, having friends over and enjoying, we have a pool, so enjoying the pool, just something outside in the sun. supercharged by more sunny weather.

So I just love to be outside. I feel like I spend most of my day inside. So anytime that I can get outside, I love it. Oh, yeah.

That's a great one. I have a win, but it's great right now. But yeah, that's a great one. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Jennifer.

It was such a joy. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation. Likewise.

Thank you.