S9 Episode 28: Claire Wang | Claire Wang | Pricing Strategist & Author

Speaker A: What's up everybody? I'm Kelly Johnson, the host of the Daily Grind Podcast, the official podcast of the Kelly Johnson foundation. And welcome to season nine. Since 2019, we've had the privilege of sitting down with incredible leaders, entrepreneurs, athletes and change makers who are putting in the work every single day. This podcast is all about growth, leadership and empowering future leaders to make an impact. If you've been with us, we appreciate you. If you're new, welcome to the family. Be sure to follow the Daily Grind podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Links are in the description. Let's get into season nine. The grind continues. Hello everyone. Uh, welcome to the Daily Grind. My name is Kelly Johnson, your friend and friendly host. We're in episode 28 of season nine, the very best one yet. Keep the instruction short because we have a special guest on today's podcast like to introduce to Claire Wang. Claire's a pricing strategist with 20 years of international experience helping drive data driven organizations to make smarter decisions. Drawing on her background in pricing and behavioral strategy, she teaches professionals how to influence with out authority, building trust, clarity and alignment so ideas gain traction and drive action. So welcome to show Claire.

Speaker B: Thank you, Kelly for having me here.

Speaker A: Yes, Claire, we, we are excited to have you on our show today. Our listeners are well beyond excited to learn more about your story, what you do, and I'm excited to share your wealth of knowledge on our episode today. So yes, Claire, welcome to the Daily Grind podcast. You know, tell us a little bit about yourself and your Daily Grind.

Speaker B: Sure. Well, hi guys, my name is Claire. Um, this is, I guess I have a book coming up. So it's hitting the shop in September, so my daddy girl waking up, you know, normally before seven, I'm at my desk trying to do a bit of writing, writing up the promotional material, LinkedIn post, trying to generate some buzz for this book. Um, I work normally till lunchtime or 11 o'. Clock. I take a coffee break in between, but in the afternoon I'm pretty much chilled. I do whatever I want. Sometimes I feel like, you know, going for a walk, hitting the gym. Sometimes I just feel like doing nothing at all. So that's my day.

Speaker A: Yeah, talk about the, uh, life of a true Daily Grinder. But no, excited to dive more into your background and also talk on your upcoming book. We'll definitely touch on that in this interview on today's episode here. But yeah, I want to start from the top. You know, you spent two decades, uh, pricing things people interact with every day. So like phone plans, insurance FX rates. What really first drew you to, uh, into pricing strategy?

Speaker B: Uh, I guess like most pressing people, I didn't really choose it. I kind of just fell into this profession. So my background has been in actuarial. And you know, it's just a fancy way that says I study a lot of mathematics when I was a bit younger. Uh, so naturally for an actuary, when you graduate from uni M, there are really just two parts. You either do valuation or you do pricing. And at the time I joined uh, an insurance company and I remember on my first day my boss said to me, he said, well Claire, you will be our pricing girl. So although I didn't intentionally choose a pricing career, I guess I did keep choosing it because 20 years in the same profession, uh, there's something about pricing that I love. Uh, I spent most of my career working in the B2C space. Meaning that, you know, I price products that can impact millions of people. And there's something satisfying about doing that, knowing whatever you do, it impacts a lot of people. And that's what keeps me going.

Speaker A: Yeah, talk about filling up your cup and filling up ours on our show today. But you are on that pricing ground, all right. Yeah. And m, most people never think about pricing as a form of influence. Like, when did you realize that connection between, you know, pricing and human behavior? Or if you want to educate your audience too, between, like how that's connected. Sure.

Speaker B: Um, I guess I didn't really realize there's a link. Pricing is this sort of niche discipline where there's a bit of science. A big part of it is actually art, meaning that we study a lot about how humans make decisions. Decisions. And as you, you might know Kelly, we make decisions not purely based on logic. A big part of our decision making is driven by emotion. Uh, just take an example. You know, let's say a designer handbag. I mean how many handbags do you actually need? Right. And you certainly don't need a twenty thousand dollar handbag. But people do that.

Speaker A: Why?

Speaker B: Because when they buy a handbag, they have not just been buying a, uh, piece of leather stitched up together, they are buying, uh, exclusivity. They, ah, are buying, um, access, they are buying a whole lot of different things. And that's what pricing is really about. We try to understand the motifs behind decision making. So when you think about influence, it pretty much works in the same idea. When we try to get someone to say yes, it's never about just to prove that, uh, our idea has some logic, but it is really trying to understand what the other person values and trying to understand their motifs, trying to understand what might make them hesitate and then, you know, being proactive to address all those issues before you present your idea.

Speaker A: Yeah, really well said, Claire. And a really great example for our listeners tuning today's show to visualize, um, you know, how, you know, their thought process, but then the day too, how that's connected to price. It's so interesting and obviously only have limited time with you on the show today, but, um, again helping us and you're doing it in your daily grind right now with data driven organizations making those smarter decisions. And then the final end consumer like myself for that designer handbag or wherever the product is, uh, you know, goes home happy, uh, with their purchase. You, Claire, you often, uh, talk about influencing without formal authority as well. Like what did that look like in your career? Or can you share examples that happened, uh, in your daily grind?

Speaker B: Sure. Uh, yeah, I talk a lot about influence without authority. Uh, and I think the primary reason for it is because working in pricing, pricing has always been this sort of discipline where we don't really have formal control of any of the departments we work with. So finance, marketing, uh, sales, we don't control them yet for the success of a launch, uh, to put the price of our product in the market. We rely on those departments to agree with us, to say yes and to actually implement the plan. So how do we do that? Uh, you know, we can't force them to do things. The only way we can do it is to influence them, to show them the value of, uh, agreeing with our proposal. And naturally you would think, you know, for someone working in sales, their incentive is very different compared to someone working in finance, someone working in sales, their remuneration might be driven by volume, right? They get their bonus if they hit certain volume target. But if you work in finance, you care about profitability, you care about margin, you don't care as much about sales because your bonus doesn't depend on that. So how do we get this, you know, two very competing priorities aligned. And that's all pricing is all about. And you can't force them. That's why, you know, influence, uh, without authority is the key thing. And I guess there are more people out there who are pressed to do this because they're only in an organization. There are only a very few people are doing the, you know, decision making. Most of us, if we want to sell our ideas, we, we can't push. We have to invite people to listen to us and to say yes.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really interesting. Again, great example too, from, uh, you know, influencing without formal authority. And then, yeah, you talk about in simple terms, you know, what matters most to people with their job, their role in an organization, but then too, at the end of the day, what, what they're driving that alignment towards. So, uh, spot on in helping us drive action. Ah, really, really key here. Speaking of driving action or, uh, I guess writing a book, you mentioned on the teaser, uh, in the intro here, what inspired you to write the Price of Influence now? Yeah, Take us away, author Claire.

Speaker B: Sure. All right, do you want the official answer or do you want the almost F word?

Speaker A: I guess both.

Speaker B: Okay, well, I'm going to start with the honest answer first. Uh, at the time, I just wanted to have a business card. I left my corporate job, uh, two years ago, and all of a sudden, you know, I don't have a company behind me. I don't have a typo. I don't have an email with a logo attached to it. And I just felt like, naked. I was like, okay, if I can't introduce myself with, with a position, with a job, then maybe I should introduce myself with a book. That was the original idea. But as I started writing, something changed. Um, I got really into the process and I felt like the whole writing process extremely satisfying. To the point I just felt, no, this is not just a business card. I actually wanted something much bigger than that. I do want to create something that can help people. Um, so that leads to, you know, the official reason, which is really why I'm doing this, because I, I do believe a lot of people who benefit from learning a little bit more about how to influence decisions at work. If you want to get a promotion or if you want to generally push your ideas forward, this is what you need to do. And that's the real reason behind the whole book.

Speaker A: Oh, I like, I like both reasons. The honest reason and then also the, the business one. But no, at the end of the day, you're able to share not just your, your book on our show today, but your own personal, uh, story and influencing our listeners out there and, uh, future readers or your book, obviously. We'll put in the show notes where to find Claire's book, uh, as well. But, um, uh, being able to, uh, elevate their game in their respective industry when it comes to pricing and much, much more Here, uh, with your upcoming book, um, called, you know, the Price of Influence. What does thinking like a pricer like, actually mean?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really good question. And I like to sort this question back as a post, you know, what's your understanding of pricing? What do you think pricing is really all about?

Speaker A: Yeah, A to Z, I'd say pricing again for me as a target consumer, purchasing that handbag or a cup of coffee, uh, it's, it determines the uh, uh, how we, how it influences my, my daily, uh, life or my daily grind. So I get, you know, smiles for miles with that coffee and then I, uh, continue on my day in a positive mindset. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, so you buy something because you are expecting something in return.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Using your example, when you buy a coffee, you're not just buying a coffee, you're buying like a smile or buying like this routine that gives you energy to continue to go on with your day. So as a pricer, when we price something, it's really uh, trying to understand what the, our consumer wants. So when it comes to selling an idea, it is exactly the same thing. First we need to understand who are we selling this to. Once we know who the buyer is, then we need to enter their word, meaning that we want to see these things from their perspectives. What do they value? What's their problem? What are they struggling with? What will give them this aha moment or moments of delights. And we try to create that. And once we know all that, then it's about communication. It's about articulating that value in a language they can understand. And then the last stage is just continue to repeat this process and do this over and over again. Because the last step, uh, is where trust can be built. And once you get their trust, it's like having the fast passing of this thing. Everything becomes so much easier.

Speaker A: Yeah, talk about the simplicity, but then also again educating our audience. And I really like how you, the uh, words that you speak here, Claire, in regards to helping our smart daily grinders out, there are smart people at the world, um, understanding how that pricing influence, uh, plays an integral part in their respective brand or business or organization that they work for and help us win at that too. We all about celebrating the wins on our, on our show here. Uh, like speaking of mindset or just like in summary of your book as well, like what's one mindset shift you hope readers walk away with or key takeaways for folks reading your um, reading the Price of Influence.

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess the key mindset shift is probably to stop treating influence as uh, persuasion or convincing, which, you know, it's a little bit about pushing. Right. I think what influence really is, is about inviting, inviting people to be on the same journey as you. And through that process you also learn more uh, about what they want. It's about co creation, it's creating something together. And once you land on the destination, the yes becomes inevitable because you both help to create that final destination.

Speaker A: Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, I'm excited to pick up a copy here. Um, I'm sure our listeners are tuning today's episode and obviously our outreach and much, much more here. Uh, and like you mentioned too, yeah, regardless of your industry, like pricing and influence really like follow the same rules and have um, different important um, influences or uh, like results coming out of um, different parts of our everyday life. Uh, which is great. I also want to talk into again, uh, sharing your wealth of knowledge on our episode here. Uh, you say people like can't get anyone to say yes by understanding how value is perceived. What's like the biggest misconception people have about like persuasion.

Speaker B: Mhm. As we've been discussing earlier, I think persuasion, uh, in a way it's very, it's centered on yourself. You, there's something you want and then you're trying to push that idea on someone else. So it's not so much of a uh, misunderstanding. It's just like the way it is. Uh, but uh, if we focus on the outcome or the objective, if the goal is to get someone to say yes, to agree with us, then think only in our own perspective. Probably will not help you to achieve that outcome. Um, and that's where influence comes in. If you want to get something you want, then a better way to do it is to switch on another lens and try to stay tuned things from the other person's perspective. So a big part of this is you know, empathy. How can you see things from another person's perspective? And this is not easy. It requires practice.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, yeah, really interesting too. And like you mentioned like persuasion, that's not like hey, pricing equals persuasion. Like that's completely different. So I really enjoy that you um, help us um, understand and define, you know, differences but then uh, help us um, come to the forefront these mis, misconceptions that we have about uh, this space. Uh, I also want to talk on the role on uh, trust. That's another big uh, part of um, this whole uh, space here. What role does like trust play in pricing and influence?

Speaker B: I, I think trust is kind of the, the foundation. Or maybe it's not the foundation, it's the, it's the foundation you want to build. But to get there it requires a lot of hard Work. Uh, and if you take, let's say if you see trust building as saving money into your bank account, then the concept is quite similar. You know, whenever you make a small deposit, it saves in your, this trust account. And whenever you take a withdrawal, meaning that if you do something stupid or you, you broke the trust, then it takes a little bit of a way, right? So when you have a big account, when you have a big number in that trust account, then naturally you are allowed to have a little bit room to make some error versus if you don't have a lot in that bank account, then people will probably be judging you a little bit more harshly. So trust is important because once you have it, as we discussed before, it's like having a fast, uh, path, uh, whatever you say, people wouldn't scrutinize that as much because you have already. So they would naturally tend to say yes. And psychologically, you know, it has been found that uh, once people say yes to maintain that internal consistency, they are more likely to say more yes in the future. So it's a very good place to be, you know, have that trust built so that people see you as uh, the default and you don't have to continue to invest energy to prove yourself over and over.

Speaker A: Yeah, like spot on again, great example. And I'm envisioning too as well, just like the different consumer products and or services too from uh, making those purchases based on trust, which is like hang uh, the head, hang uh, the nail on the head in regards to uh, the importance of trust, uh, from a pricing perspective then how that influences our everyday daily grind here. Speaking of everyday, uh, daily grind, like one uh, class, one question before closing here, Claire is like, what's one pricing principle like everyone can use in everyday conversations or negotiations? Like maybe a call to action for our daily grinders tuning today's episode.

Speaker B: That's one pricing principle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Let me probably bring that empathy lens, you know, the perspective of seeing things from someone else, uh, lens. And I think that's so important in pricing and in everything we do in pricing. That means we have to really understand our customers because if we don't understand them, we cannot design the product, we cannot price the product for those group of people in daily life, people will not trust you. People will not listen to you if they feel like they were not understood. So you first have to invest the time to understand them better. Once they feel heard, they will start listening to you. Um, and you can use that in all aspects of your life. This is not just for business Know, it's extremely helpful if you try to apply that in your personal life as well in your relationship with your family, with your friends, with your partners. It's. Yeah, it's, it goes beyond the professional life.

Speaker A: Yeah, this is, this is a great clip. Like spot call the Action Regard Studio, uh, seeing in the lens of the end consumer. But then also too like you mentioned, it's applicable. Like I don't have to work in pricing to have this be part of my daily grind. Yeah, affects our relationships or uh, what we do from a business standpoint, but then even outside of our, our um, nine to five grind, or if we're an entrepreneur out there with um, a passion project that we're going full time with or even a startup idea that we're um, launching, you know, in the coming months here, uh, the list goes on and on. The interactions from a family, uh, friends and partner relationship perspective and, and uh, that, that principle in general. So love to hear it. And uh, yeah, our daily grinders, let's, let's carry on, let's move forward and achieve our goals and uh, you know, have that right mindset when it comes to that influence and um, strategy that we have overall. Really. Uh, well said, Claire. But yes, in closing, we talked about your daily schedule. You have quite the grind going on. Uh, as a pricing strategist, as an author and as a guest on our show here today. What's on your daily grind list here? What's on the radar for the rest of 2026?

Speaker B: To really, you know, promote my book. So more people hear about this idea. Uh, and I do want to highlight one thing though, because when people think about Daily Grant, they think about, you know, hustle, they think about doing things. But what I do want to highlight is sometimes slowing down is what makes you go faster. Which was why at the beginning I say sometimes in the after afternoon, if I don't feel like doing anything, I don't do much. Because you need to allow that time, that pose, uh, to free up some space in your brain and I think that part is important to help you to go further.

Speaker A: Yeah. All about the balance on our respective grind. Uh, yeah, really well said and again, great advice for our listeners too because yeah, we're always on the hustle, grinding with the purpose out there. But at the end of the day we want in order for us to perform our best, uh, have those moments so we can really relax, recharge and get back on the grind and become, you know, a future Claire Wang out here like ourselves and uh, crush Our respective industry. Yeah, really well said. No, we wish you all the best and continue success. Um, uh, with the book launch ahead here. Um, as we say on the show, keep, uh, up the grind. Claire story. Very inspiring on our episode here. Do you have a word of the day to motivate our listeners out there? Or even a quote to saying a mantra?

Speaker B: Be true to yourself and be kind to other people.

Speaker A: Yes, I, I like that. Words of wisdom here. I think that, I think that quote or, uh, words fit perfectly with your story. What encompasses what you're doing here out in the world. Inspire us on today's show. Uh, not just, you know, helping organizations, uh, make smart decisions, but also teaching professionals how to influence without authority. Build that trust, clarity, alignment so they can, their ideas can gain traction, drive action. Last but not least, Claire, if listeners want to follow your story, business, uh, brand, uh, also, um, be inspired to write but pick up their own copy of Price of Influence when it launches here. Remind us again, how could, how can they do so?

Speaker B: Uh, I think the easiest way is just to follow me on LinkedIn. So, Claire, uh, Wong Wang, uh, or type in Google the price of influence. Claire Wong. I'm sure I will come up first.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Yeah, we'll put where to find Claire in today's show Notes. As always, uh, thanks again for tuning in today's episode. A big thank you to Claire for being on the podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Kelly.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Yes. Until next time, my name is Kelly Johnson. Keep grinding. That's a wrap on today's episode of the Daily Grind podcast. If you got value from this conversation, make sure you're following us on Instagram X and Facebook at Daily Grind Pod and subscribe on Spotify and Apple. So never miss what's coming next. Check our YouTube channel for full video interviews, behind the scenes content and highlights from our nonprofit events. Just search Daily Grind podcast. You can also support the mission by grabbing some merch@kjfwi.org we appreciate every listen, every share. New season, same grind. We'll catch you next time. And as always, keep grinding.