A special episode: Big thanks to Anika, and a cheerful hello to Malin!

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Speaker 1: <silence> 2 - >

Speaker 2: Hello everyone. I'm your host, Anika Bert , and 3 - > welcome back to the next episode of the Customer Success 4 - > Channel podcast, brought to you by Plan Hat , the Modern 5 - > Customer platform. This podcast is created for anyone working 6 - > in or interested in the customer success field. On this 7 - > podcast, we will speak to leaders in the industry about 8 - > their experiences and their definitions of customer success 9 - > and get their advice and best practices on how to run a CS 10 - > organization. 11 - >

Speaker 3: Today 12 - >

Speaker 2: Is a special episode because today is the last time 13 - > I will be hosting the Customer Success Channel podcast. It has 14 - > been an amazing four years of hosting this podcast, but all 15 - > good things must come to an end. But the good news is that 16 - > there will be a new host of this podcast moving forward. I 17 - > am very excited to introduce Molin Scottland , who is a 18 - > seasoned executive with 15 years of leadership experience 19 - > in B2B SaaS. She is our guest today and I'm really excited to 20 - > dive into her experience and showcase her as our next guest. 21 - > And as my last guest on this podcast, she has worked in 22 - > sales and in customer success, leading teams ranging from 10 23 - > to over hundreds of members, managing revenue growth worth 24 - > tens of millions of dollars with deep experience in various 25 - > market segments, including SMB Mid-Market and Enterprise. 26 - > Mullin's leadership style is results driven and focused on 27 - > operational excellence, proudly born and raised in Sweden. She 28 - > now resides in New York City with her husband and two 29 - > daughters, and she is going to be our next host. So I am 30 - > excited to dive in today's podcast and interview my last 31 - > guest for this podcast. Hi Malin , welcome to the podcast. 32 - > I'm so very excited to have you on this very special episode 33 - > today and talk to you a little bit more. But before we jump 34 - > into our topic and get more deep into this podcast, it 35 - > would be great for you to tell us a little bit more about who 36 - > you're, and let our listeners know who it's you're. 37 - >

Speaker 3: Yes, hi Annika. 38 - > Thank you so much. I'm very, very excited to be here. My 39 - > name is Marlin , uh, but after , uh, spending the last 13 40 - > years in the US I respond to basically anything that starts 41 - > with an MI take no offense in any mispronunciations. I'm 42 - > based in New York City and I've spent my whole career 15 years 43 - > basically in commercial roles in in B2B SaaS. And I started 44 - > as a sales rep. It wasn't called anything as fancy as, 45 - > you know, account executive back then. And then I kind of 46 - > have worked my way up from there. I've been in leadership 47 - > roles for a long time now. I've run teams from, you know, five 48 - > to 10 people, up to over a hundred people responsible for, 49 - > you know , tens of millions of , of dollars of a RR . And I'm 50 - > really a true operator. I'm very passionate about tech and 51 - > sas. I love sales and I love cs . Then yeah, I work at Plant 52 - > Hats , <laugh> . 53 - >

Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much for giving us a brief 54 - > insight into who you're and what you've been up to . I love 55 - > always asking CS Leaders trajectory into where they find 56 - > themselves today, because no one has any similar route . 57 - > Everyone has a very, very unique route . And I also come 58 - > from a sales background, so I love speaking to other revenue 59 - > leaders on the podcast, but I know you weren't quite 60 - > cross-functionally as well within Plan Hat . I think in 61 - > general Plan Hat being a startup and Scale Up , there's 62 - > a lot of different teams, a lot of different people, a lot of 63 - > different processes that you guys are building and doing, 64 - > and because of that you work quite cross-functionally. How 65 - > does this work currently at Plan Hat ? How do you work with 66 - > different teams? How does CS kind of mix and move between 67 - > the different teams at Plan Hat ? 68 - >

Speaker 3: It's such an interesting question because 69 - > this is something that we spend a lot of time at Plan Head 70 - > thinking about and and , and talking about too, honestly, 71 - > and at plan really, you know, all functions are focused on 72 - > how to get, grow and retain customers in the best way. We 73 - > try not to think about CS as too much of a department or a 74 - > function. We think that everyone is doing cs because I 75 - > think sometimes, you know, putting all responsibility of 76 - > your customer and all information about your customer 77 - > in one department is maybe sometimes, you know, the best 78 - > way to make sure that there's not too much cross-functional 79 - > ownership of the customer or that the organization is truly 80 - > customer focused . And I think if you wanna be customer 81 - > focused , which you know, everyone says that, that they 82 - > do, right? It's extremely important to see us . And all 83 - > the data that you have about your customers is not siloed. 84 - > It's important. I think that, you know, the whole 85 - > organization has insight into everything that's going on with 86 - > your customers and that the ownership and you know, sadly, 87 - > sometimes that also means the blame when something goes wrong 88 - > doesn't sit squarely with the CS team. So we really like to 89 - > think of CS as, you know, more than just a function. We think. 90 - > We like to think of it as something that, you know, 91 - > everyone has responsibility for the customer and everyone is 92 - > involved with the customer, you know, from product to sales and 93 - > marketing, you name it. 94 - >

Speaker 2: I love that. I also think that is a great 95 - > philosophy to have within business in general. And I 96 - > think that customer success is really the beating heart of 97 - > every organization and everyone should be contributing to 98 - > making sure that heart keeps beating in a healthy and happy 99 - > way. So yeah, I think that's great that you guys use 100 - > ownership and share ownership across all departments. Like 101 - > you said, sometimes the blame can end up with the customer 102 - > team, but really it's up to everyone to make sure that the 103 - > customer is successful. So it's really awesome that you guys 104 - > are living and breathing that philosophy across multiple 105 - > teams, like you already mentioned. I think a lot of 106 - > people today, especially in this economy , are very 107 - > concerned around how customer success fits into the wider org 108 - > , but if it should also be either a revenue generating 109 - > function now coming from sales, and I'm thinking you also 110 - > coming from sales probably heavily agree with this, but do 111 - > you think CS should be a revenue generating function? 112 - > Like how would you factor in customer success metrics into 113 - > wider business metrics? 114 - >

Speaker 3: This has been a , you know, kind of a big 115 - > discussion in cs I think lately. And I think it really 116 - > depends , uh, right, because I think CS is kind of a different 117 - > thing almost at every company. 118 - > And what it needs to be, I think differs a lot because of 119 - > things like the product or product market fit stickiness, 120 - > a whole range of your bus business specific things. And I 121 - > think that that's a bit of a problem in and of itself , uh, 122 - > that, you know , all other departments or most other 123 - > departments are very clearly defined, but CS is a little bit 124 - > new and people have done kind of different things with it in 125 - > different organizations. And I think that's actually what the 126 - > CS identity crisis is coming from because I think it, it is 127 - > very hard to say in general, okay, this is exactly how CS 128 - > should be done. You know, for example, if you need a ton of, 129 - > you know, product delivery support, more like ProServe 130 - > type services and that's the bulk of, you know, what your CS 131 - > organization is doing for the business , uh, you know, to 132 - > retain and grow customers, then, you know, maybe it should 133 - > be a COGS or whatnot. But I'm, you know, leaning more towards 134 - > what you were saying too, Annika , like with nine outta 135 - > 10 products, probably you also need someone to help your 136 - > customers stay and grow with everything that that entails. 137 - > Stakeholder relationships, renewing and upselling 138 - > customers. And in some organizations, you know, sales 139 - > are doing that and some organizations that's cs, some 140 - > call account management, renewals teams, you , you name 141 - > it, right? And my thought is, is , uh, you know, pretty 142 - > aligned with yours. And again, my thought is very colored by 143 - > my background and, and how I've run my CS organizations and 144 - > maybe, you know, me as a person who loves sales as well, but I 145 - > think that CS should own, you know , all post sales revenue. 146 - > I think it becomes very aimless if the work that CS does is to 147 - > ensure that the customer stays and grows, but they don't have 148 - > much or any at all really insight into what that number 149 - > even is. I also don't like CS people saying that it hurts the 150 - > relationship to talk about money or renewals or upsells or 151 - > CSMs are scared to be viewed as, you know, too commercial 152 - > because I think, you know, this is , this is business. The 153 - > whole thing is about someone paying money for your software. 154 - > So I'm a bit allergic to , to some of those arguments. And to 155 - > me, similar to you, Annika , like CS is the heroes of the 156 - > organizations. They're, they're the lifeblood , they're the 157 - > people who drive and own the NRR, which as you know, is one 158 - > of the most important metrics in SaaS. CSMs work relentlessly 159 - > to deliver business outcomes to their customers. They keep it 160 - > real with their customers. They call out bs they realize it's 161 - > not about, you know, NPS or customers even necessarily 162 - > being happy or having nice relationships. It's, it's about 163 - > monetizable customers who, who really stick around, right? And 164 - > I think it's about CSMs who ask for the business, and , uh, in 165 - > my mind they're by far the best people to, you know, own , uh, 166 - > all the revenue as well and upsell and renew the customer. 167 - >

Speaker 2: Definitely. And I love that you said that 168 - > customer success ends up being the post sales revenue part of 169 - > the, and so, so rightfully so. 170 - > I think a lot of people say CS is in sales , or like you said, 171 - > Hey, I don't wanna talk money , or it's uncomfortable talking 172 - > about revenue or any sort of money with customers , but like 173 - > you said, no one's here for free. We're , we're not working 174 - > for free. So that definitely means that our customers aren't 175 - > expecting our product for free. 176 - > So we do have to have those conversations. Now , do they 177 - > have to be the sleazy sales conversations that everyone 178 - > thinks is part of, of an upsell? No, not at all. I don't 179 - > think that's, that's anything to do with it. I think customer 180 - > success ends up forming a bridge between delivering 181 - > customer outcomes, but then ensuring that those outcomes 182 - > directly relate back to revenue generation for the business 183 - > that you're working at. And I think that as long as customer 184 - > success is around those, the two hats that you're always 185 - > gonna have to wear, you're gonna have to make sure your 186 - > customers are receiving value and outcomes of using your 187 - > software. But ultimately it does come down to the bottom 188 - > line of revenue for your business and the business 189 - > that's paying your paycheck at the end of the day. So I love 190 - > that you said you're allergic to people saying those things . 191 - > That has to be the funniest thing a guest has said on this 192 - > podcast yet. Um , so I love hearing that, but sometimes 193 - > it's not easy. Tying it back to business metrics, like you 194 - > said, NRR seems to be a north star metric. It seems to be the 195 - > understood SaaS metric that a lot of leaders look to go 196 - > towards, but sometimes that can be quite lagging or not a 197 - > leading indicator. What do you think is around or the future 198 - > business metric that makes sense for customer success to 199 - > really be focusing on if revenue is such a critical part 200 - > of customer success? 201 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, it's a great question and I think, you 202 - > know, again, it's not one thing probably there's a lot of, you 203 - > know, leading indicators in, in general that are usually tied 204 - > to, you know, usage and, and things like that. I think in 205 - > general what we'll see more of in the future is, you know, 206 - > really hyperfocused, post-sales teams that are really, really 207 - > data driven . I think we will see a lot more use of 208 - > technology and AI to help people be more efficient and 209 - > get that help in managing maybe simple tasks or maybe even, you 210 - > know, managing some, some smaller customers. We've seen a 211 - > lot of that in the last year. 212 - > Uh, people are being more interested in building out a 213 - > kind of a scale model or a tech touch function or whatnot. And 214 - > I think we will also see a lot less of kind of breaking out 215 - > the revenue ownership. Uh, we will see less , uh, you know, 216 - > excuse my French bs, no health scores, you know, going around 217 - > in circles doing no one any good. You know, I think overall 218 - > the pressure to perform from the past year has been a bit 219 - > good, honestly and needed for cs, because I think when, when 220 - > funding dries up, no one can afford not to impact the bottom 221 - > line anymore. And I think that's a really good thing. It 222 - > pushes people not to do stuff that, you know, doesn't have 223 - > any real impact . I also think that we will see more of CS not 224 - > being seen as a department and more as a , you know, 225 - > company-wide initiative. I think we'll see more of 226 - > everyone being invested in maintaining and growing your 227 - > customer from the CEO product sales team. I think in the NRR 228 - > economy, not many companies will be able to afford to silo 229 - > customer focus in , into a single department anymore. So I 230 - > , I think that, you know, that's a shift that we'll see 231 - > as 232 - >

Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, I think it's all very exciting. Change 233 - > is tough. Change is gonna be not easy, but like you said, 234 - > this last year really did not leave any room for wiggle or 235 - > error or choice. Like everyone is being hyper-focused on the 236 - > bottom line and everyone is super aware that retaining and 237 - > growing customers is the key skill that you need to make 238 - > sure you have in your business. 239 - > And that does not mean one person or one department. It 240 - > means the whole business and it means how the business is gonna 241 - > be shaped is very dependent on how your customers end up 242 - > seeing value from your product. 243 - > And it all ties back down to revenue or the bottom line and 244 - > how you're growing as a business and how your customers 245 - > are growing will ultimately affect again, how you look 246 - > outwardly and, and what your future projections look like 247 - > within business as well. But yes, it all sounds very 248 - > exciting. Also challenging. I'm not gonna say that that sounds 249 - > easy at all, but I think it's a good challenge. I think 250 - > customer success is always up for a good challenge and the 251 - > future of CS is gonna be a bright one, but a challenging 252 - > one. Anything more that you would say would change ? You 253 - > mentioned a few things, but anything that you would say 254 - > would be the ultimate future of CS if you were to have a, a 255 - > magic ball and look into it and say, this is what CS is gonna 256 - > be, what would, what would your bet be on, you 257 - >

Speaker 3: Know, to summarize every , everything I feel like 258 - > that I've just said, but you know, more data driven and more 259 - > using data and technology to be more efficient and I think 260 - > revenue sitting with the post-sales team, I think we'll 261 - > see more of and more of, you know, everyone at the company 262 - > doing cs. I think , uh, those are the three themes that I 263 - > think and, you know, hope that , that we will see more of in 264 - > the future. 265 - >

Speaker 2: Amazing. I think in speaking of the future, I agree 266 - > with those three points, but there's also a future for this 267 - > podcast and this episode is a very special one because we are 268 - > transitioning and this will be a new era of customer success 269 - > channel podcast. I would love to know, and I'm sure the 270 - > listeners as well, what is next for the podcast and what can 271 - > our listeners expect moving forward? 272 - >

Speaker 3: Yes, I think that we can expect interesting thought 273 - > provoking subjects and guests. 274 - > We will be digging deeper into different businesses and open , 275 - > uh, the pod up a little bit more to business as a whole, 276 - > but still with a very clear focus on customer management. 277 - > And it'll be filmed right here in New York City. The first 278 - > episode will come out in March, so yeah , stay stay tuned for 279 - > that. Alright , Annika, so now that the handover is , uh, 280 - > officially done, I think the listeners are really interested 281 - > in, in what's next for you. Um , and having been the host for 282 - > so long, I think everyone is really curious to know the 283 - > Annika behind the podcast a little bit more. So, so who is 284 - > that? Who is Annika Behind Behind being a , a podcast 285 - > host? Yeah, 286 - >

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that. It's strange to be on 287 - > this side of the podcast of , uh, this podcast, but as a host 288 - > for the last four years, I've also been a customer success 289 - > leader for the last 12 years. 290 - > And I've sat in a number of different organizations, 291 - > different SaaS startups and scale ups . I have seen from 292 - > zero to acquisition when it comes to the revenue piece . I 293 - > have have been in an SDR role before I was an account 294 - > manager, and so I have held a number of different seats and 295 - > different places at within organizations, but it's always 296 - > been in a customer focused or customer success role. And 297 - > outside of the podcast, I'm a proud dog mom. I am based in 298 - > London, England, although the accent is misleading. I think a 299 - > lot of people think I'm based in the us that accent is going 300 - > isn't gonna change. I always say I'm Californian, but with a 301 - > British passport now. And I have enjoyed doing the podcast, 302 - > but I'm so much more than that and I'm very excited to share 303 - > that on today's episode. 304 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah. And yeah, you you started a new Rob job 305 - > recently, didn't you ? Anika tell us , um, a little bit more 306 - > about that. Where are you now and and and what are you doing 307 - > now since recent? 308 - >

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I have started a new role. It has 309 - > been a whole three months, but in startup world that could be 310 - > three years. But I'm currently head of customer success at 311 - > Griffin, which is a banking as a service platform. And it's a 312 - > whole new space and sector for me. I have always been in B2B 313 - > SaaS. I have always been focused on like SaaS products 314 - > and working with other SAS customers, but for me this is 315 - > the first time venturing into working at a bank and working 316 - > in the FinTech space. So it's both exciting and challenging 317 - > and tough and exhilarating all at once. And , uh, I'm fairly 318 - > new in the role, but the company, the team is really 319 - > amazing. And coming back to what you said earlier, Malin 320 - > customer success or the customer is actually at the 321 - > heart of everything we do. So much so that our commercial 322 - > team doesn't even call it prospects. We call everyone a 323 - > customer. Um, we work in the way that our product team is on 324 - > all customer calls. The customer success team actually 325 - > is part of the product organization, so it is a , uh, 326 - > very much customer says at the heart of everything we do. And, 327 - > and I love being a part of that early build and really 328 - > structuring that and what that's gonna mean for the 329 - > future of Griffin. 330 - >

Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing. 331 - > Practicing what , uh, I ire <laugh> , I preach at least 332 - > that's sounds super exciting and like a great fit for you. 333 - > So what does your team look like there? And I, I know 334 - > you're still, you know , fairly new. What are your , do you 335 - > have any kind of big goals for 2024 or anything else that 336 - > you're, you've set out to do here fairly ear early on in , 337 - > in the role? 338 - >

Speaker 2: It's super exciting. 339 - > I am first in customer success at Griffin. They wanted to 340 - > bring in a leader to make sure that they had someone that's 341 - > gonna structure what the future of the customer journey and 342 - > customer success and the full customer experience would look 343 - > like. I'm hiring , uh, the first CSM at the moment, so 344 - > that is also happening, which is super exciting. But we are 345 - > early in our journey when it comes to launch and, and 346 - > customers. We have only a select few customers that we 347 - > have in a beta launch that's going live in a , in a few 348 - > weeks here. So for us, we are just very early days, early 349 - > stage startup . We are , uh, we have very aggressive goals for 350 - > 2024 and, you know, are , are on that rocket ship journey and 351 - > trajectory and making sure that we not only acquire and, and 352 - > sign the right customers, but they see success with us for 353 - > years to come because we are actually building a product 354 - > alongside of them. So it's, it's truly exciting to be that 355 - > early stage at the moment and, and building that with the 356 - > product and wider organization for our customers. 357 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 358 - > You get to really be part of shaping something new. That 359 - > sounds so exciting and it seems like you're looking for CSM 360 - > also, so this could be a plug if anyone is looking to , uh, 361 - > work with Annika . Good things to come from there. It sounds 362 - > like, and you mentioned this a little bit, that it was a very, 363 - > you know, customer-focused organization, but where does cs 364 - > uh , you know, sit at Griffin and, and in the organization it 365 - > seems to be very, you know, cross-functional and it seems 366 - > to be a big focus for the organization as a whole, but 367 - > anything else there? 368 - >

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely it's , uh, it's 369 - > cross-functionally. Uh , when I came in, I was part of the 370 - > operations organization, but as even in the three months I've 371 - > been there, as the company evolves, as our product 372 - > evolves, as we grow as a business, it's become heavily 373 - > evident that the customer feedback needs to be directly 374 - > in line with the product managers, the product 375 - > organization, but also how we shape and build our product 376 - > should be directly around what our customers are giving 377 - > feedback on. So the customer team success and support all 378 - > sit under product and that is what we will see for the 379 - > foreseeable because we wanna build a product and a company 380 - > that our customers truly love and see value from from day 381 - > one. And, and we as an organization see that that is 382 - > critical and customer success, again, is at the heart of 383 - > everything we do. It's a part of the executive team, it's a 384 - > part of day to day what we are building and doing every single 385 - > day. And I, I already alluded to this a little bit earlier, 386 - > but I truly love that anyone from the sales team to our 387 - > product team refers to everyone as a customer, sometimes it 388 - > gets very confusing, but everyone is considered a 389 - > customer. So it's, it's really great that everyone is that 390 - > involved and again, everyone is so willing to jump on a 391 - > customer call or have almost like chat on the side about a 392 - > customer issue or a customer problem. Everyone is is very, 393 - > very bought into the fact that if our customers are 394 - > successful, we will ultimately be successful. So it's really, 395 - > really great to be at an organization that sees this so 396 - > early on because I have been at organizations before where it's 397 - > only realized after things have broken that how important 398 - > making the customer the center of everything you do. So for 399 - > me, it's just really nice that early on in the journey of, of 400 - > how we're building a bank and how we're building a product is 401 - > very much, it's embedded that us delivering value for 402 - > customers from day one is just almost like a default state 403 - > rather than a nice to have . 404 - >

Speaker 3: Uh , that's, that's amazing. I feel like, wow , 405 - > this is gonna be a , a , a , a huge success it sounds like. I 406 - >

Speaker 2: Hope so. <laugh>. 407 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah, <laugh> . 408 - > Exactly. Uh , no , it sounds like you're, you're doing 409 - > things right for sure. And I'm really curious to, to ask you 410 - > something because you have spent , uh, you know, so many 411 - > years running this podcast, you know, and talking to so many CS 412 - > professionals and what are the things that you think most of 413 - > them agree on versus the things that are maybe done differently 414 - > in different organizations from, you know, your experience 415 - > and , and the people that you've been been , uh, speaking 416 - > to on the podcast? 417 - >

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that this is gonna be probably the 418 - > most common answer I have gotten on the podcast and in 419 - > any conversation that I've had with any CS professional is 420 - > that it depends, and funnily you just said that earlier in , 421 - > in this very recording, and I think that most people that 422 - > I've ever talked to on this podcast have always said, well, 423 - > it depends if , uh, you know , we should have onboarding in 30 424 - > days or it depends if NPS is important or it depends if we 425 - > have revenue or if sales has revenue. It's just, I think the 426 - > number one thing I've heard over the years as it depends 427 - > because customer success is not cookie cutter and it's not done 428 - > the same at any organization. 429 - > Um, I've been at a number now and I couldn't say that the way 430 - > I've done customer success five years ago is the way I'm doing 431 - > it today. I think there's broadly some fundamentals, some 432 - > metrics, some things that we track and that we're intrigued 433 - > by or that we are are very important within customer 434 - > success. But I'd have to say most times it totally depends 435 - > on the maturity of your product, the maturity of your 436 - > customer base, and really the maturity of your organization 437 - > and how like far along you are in your journey. Do you have 438 - > CSMs? Do you just have support? 439 - > Like all of that totally depends. So to come back and 440 - > answer your question, it totally depends on who you want 441 - > me to talk about. But every single person I've talked to 442 - > has basically told me that customer success depends on X 443 - > or y <laugh>. 444 - >

Speaker 3: So funny just what I said too. Yeah. Since you 445 - > started the podcast, I'm really curious, have you seen any 446 - > shifts or have you seen any, any way that CS has kind of 447 - > changed since, since you started the podcast? Are people 448 - > talking about different things now versus, you know, a few 449 - > years ago? Is there anything like that that you've could 450 - > reflect over? Yeah, 451 - >

Speaker 2: I know it's been four years and I'm just like 452 - > trying to recall all the different conversations I've 453 - > had over the years. <laugh>, I feel in the pandemic, we were 454 - > really, really aware of how important, what it was to 455 - > retain customers and it's better to have a customer that 456 - > actually stays with you and grows with you and renews 457 - > rather than, than going out to market and trying to acquire 458 - > new customers. I think before the pandemic there was probably 459 - > a lot more immaturity within customer success, meaning like 460 - > a lot of people were just, not that we always said we were the 461 - > happiness department, but it was more seen that, hey, the CS 462 - > team is there to make our customers happy, but it wasn't 463 - > truly understood that customer success is there to drive 464 - > business outcomes for our customer. And that ties back to 465 - > revenue. And I think that that's the most recent chapter 466 - > of customer success is I feel like previous chapters were all 467 - > about the infancy or the development of customer success 468 - > within organizations and that organizations fully understood 469 - > what the heck customer teams were doing or , and what value 470 - > they brought within the business. And then in the 471 - > pandemic, it kind of accelerated that timeline 472 - > because people were like, oh dang, we really have to care 473 - > about our customers because we can't always go and spend 474 - > endless money. And, and money didn't , wasn't as cheap 475 - > anymore. So you had to actually focus on what you had rather 476 - > than trying to spend all your money on acquisition costs. And 477 - > then I think in the last few years, again, due to the, you 478 - > know, macroeconomics of the world, fundraising what it is 479 - > and, and cash not being cheap, it's really, really doubled 480 - > down on customer success being part of the wider business and 481 - > ensuring that it ties back to the bottom line as we were 482 - > talking about earlier. So I would say that for me 483 - > personally, I think I've seen the evolution of being more of 484 - > an immature organization or trying to figure it out and 485 - > then suddenly the organizations start to see value in customer 486 - > success. And now I think it's not just the organization, it's 487 - > internally and externally that people are truly trying and 488 - > understanding what, what the value customer success brings. 489 - > Yeah, 490 - >

Speaker 3: That's, that's so, so interesting to hear I think. 491 - > And uh, you know, leaving the past behind, what do you think 492 - > is the future? Like how do you think CS will kind of continue 493 - > to evolve? 494 - >

Speaker 2: I think I had this conversation just a few months 495 - > ago, I can't remember who it was with , but I said that 496 - > customer success managers are essentially business analysts 497 - > or like business strategists. 498 - > And I think that a lot of what customer success does, if you 499 - > think of, you know, big consulting firms and how they 500 - > have management consultants that go into companies and 501 - > really assess how they're looking, what they're doing, et 502 - > cetera. I feel like customer success is in-house consulting 503 - > and you are there to be a business analyst. You are there 504 - > to really understand what it is that your customer needs and 505 - > wants and the outcomes they're looking for. And I think that 506 - > is the future of customer success. I think it always has 507 - > been there, but I think it's finally, as we just spoke 508 - > about, the evolution of customer success has really 509 - > come to its fruition where we're not just seen as 510 - > happiness, we're not just upselling or cross selling , we 511 - > are driving business outcomes for our customers that 512 - > ultimately result in revenue growth for our company. And I 513 - > think CSMs really embracing the fact that you are there to be a 514 - > business analyst, you're there to go into your customers 515 - > almost like a representative at their organization and showing 516 - > them not just, okay, this is how my product does this. It's 517 - > why should you care? What return on investment is this 518 - > gonna give our business and how is it gonna help our business, 519 - > meaning the customer's business really excel or accelerate 520 - > faster to their goals? And I think that that's the language 521 - > that we'll see customer success shift to . 522 - >

Speaker 3: I agree with that as well. I think that, and it is 523 - > something I always look for when hiring CSMs as well, like 524 - > business acumen and really, you know, being able to quickly 525 - > understand what's, you know, important for the person on the 526 - > other side of the table or whatnot . So yeah, I , I , I 527 - > agree with that and thanks for sharing that. I know you have 528 - > asked these questions many times to many guests, so I 529 - > figured it only makes sense for you to get to answer them 530 - > yourself as well. Uh, Anika , it's time for the quick fire 531 - > round. Are you ready? Oh , 532 - >

Speaker 2: I am so nervous. 533 - > Malin , <laugh> . I couldn't even tell you. I'm like, I'm 534 - > like sweating. I'm like so nervous because I challenge 535 - > people. So now I have to try to answer these in a sentence or 536 - > less that I think I'm gonna fail, but I'll try. 537 - >

Speaker 3: Okay. So I'll , I'll try to be nice. So first one, 538 - > what is next in , uh, customer success? Customer 539 - >

Speaker 2: Success managers becoming business analyst, as I 540 - > said earlier, 541 - >

Speaker 3: Already answered kind of. Yep . Uh, which SaaS 542 - > product can you not live without 543 - >

Speaker 2: Notion? I personally use it and I professionally use 544 - > it. 545 - >

Speaker 3: Oh , okay. Notion. I use it too. Okay. What is your 546 - > favorite CS resource podcast? 547 - >

Speaker 2: Love it . I could , I could list a lot, but I'm 548 - > gonna say this one along with a few others that I listen to 549 - > almost every day. 550 - >

Speaker 3: And who should we invite next to the , this 551 - > podcast? 552 - >

Speaker 2: I'm going to say Jason Limp , who's part of 553 - > Saster , and I think he's a great person to have on and I 554 - > think he has some really great future predictions of customer 555 - > success . Controversial, but great predictions. So I think 556 - > he would be really fun on this podcast. 557 - >

Speaker 3: That's a great idea. 558 - > Wow, you didn't , you did well , uh, Annika on the quick fire 559 - > round , didn't seem, didn't seem nervous at all. 560 - >

Speaker 2: <laugh>. I was really worried and I really was 561 - > channeling all my previous guests and how they've had a 562 - > tough time with this . I was like, no, Nika, you have to 563 - > stick to one sentence. You have to stick to one sentence. 564 - >

Speaker 3: Yeah , you nailed it. Wow . I'm impressed Annika 565 - > from me and everyone at Plan Hat , thank you for being an 566 - > absolutely incredible podcast host. This podcast has really 567 - > come to life under your guidance and leadership, and 568 - > you know, all of us, we think you've done an absolutely 569 - > incredible job with it. I wouldn't be surprised if you 570 - > pop up again as a ho host , uh, some sometime in the future, 571 - > but until then, where can the listeners find , find you? 572 - >

Speaker 2: The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. Feel 573 - > free to connect with me or reach out or message. I always 574 - > message back to everyone, so please do reach out. I love 575 - > getting everyone's messages. 576 - > And again , thank you for having me as on this podcast . 577 - > It been an amazing four . So thank you. I'm excited to hear 578 - > what the future hopes for the podcast. Thank you Annika . 579 - > Thank you for listening to the Customer Success Channel 580 - > podcast today. We hope you learn something new to take 581 - > back to your team and your company. If you found value in 582 - > our podcast, please make sure to give us a positive review 583 - > and make sure you subscribe to our channel as we release new 584 - > podcasts every month. Also, if you have any topics that you 585 - > would like me to discuss in the future or you would like to be 586 - > a guest on the podcast, please feel free to reach out. All my 587 - > contact details are in the show notes. Thanks again for 588 - > listening, and tune in next time for more on customer 589 - > success.