91: Ryan Ellis: CEO of Travis Mathew

Speaker A: You're listening to Cannonball Mindset, a podcast dedicated to helping people achieve the most out, uh, of their personal and professional lives. The Cannonball Mindset challenges you to step out of your comfort zone and lean in to the possibility of having a life of abundance. Disruptors, innovators, and groundbreakers are all welcome. Let's get into the show.

Speaker B: Welcome back to the Cannonball Mindset. I'm Chad Sanscrine, your host, and today I am with the coolest CEO ever. You know, your energy never lies. This guy's energy is off the charts. What's interesting, his factory, his office, his corporate office is the coolest energy office ever. I'm saying. So if you want to know what cool looks like, it's Travis Matthews. All things Travis Matthews. I'm sitting with their CEO Ryan Ellis, which this has been circling on the calendar for me for a while. Hey, thanks for coming on, brother.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a while. Glad to be on.

Speaker B: Yeah. This is, um. This is awesome. And I want to get into a whole bunch of stuff. I just spent some time with you walking around the factory. What is the energy? How would you describe the energy that is Travis Matthews? When you think about the brand, the people, the product, what is that energy? How would you. How would you describe the energy that.

Speaker A: I think passion is the one word that always comes to mind. When people come in, they just feel the passion from the employees, how much they care about the brand. It resonates through them. And it's like your experiences at some of our retail stores where they just live, eat, and breathe it. Um, and we're all one unified group driving towards it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So. So I was. So you speak that. I was, you know, obviously at the. Not obviously. I was at the Las, uh, Vegas store yesterday. The guy didn't know. Mark Anthony is the most unbelievable story.

Speaker A: I planted him.

Speaker B: This guy, Mark Anthony. It seemed too good to be true. It seemed like they like something. He was a plant, but. But immediately upon greeting, the energy was just palpable. You could just feel. This was not a retail store. Fast forward to today. We get here, we walk in, and same exact thing. First employee we meet. Like, same exact energy. And so do you just hire really, really well, or do you train well? There's a theory that Harvard doesn't, uh, teach. Doesn't create smart people. They. They enroll smart people. Do you enroll them? Do you teach them? How does that work? Because it seems like it's every employee, every person that I've met so far.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with Harvard. Um, I think you have to hire great people, and it takes time. Like you can't. You know, we have positions that open. You want to. The tendency is just get someone in, get a body in. Uh, we really take the time to try to find the right people that fit culturally. And I think in business, we overcomplicate it a lot of times, and we think we have to have this person with 20 years experience, or they have to be this or that, and sometimes they do. But in generally, you get a competitive person that's passionate, that's logical, they can really drive the business for you.

Speaker B: So would you say on the will versus skill. So would you say you hire will train skill? Is that I'm gonna hire the will, and, um, I can teach them the Travis Matthew way. I can teach them the Travis Matthews process. As long as I get the will right.

Speaker A: It's hard for me because I'm a will guy. Right. I'm not a skill guy. I learned everything on the fly. So it's very easy for me to see somebody with that will and go, they'll figure it out. Now, you certainly get to certain levels of the company. As you get to a VP of a $400 million company, you've got to have some skill that comes to the table. But if we're looking at both and someone's got a little less skill, but all the will, I'll take the will all day.

Speaker B: What do you think? What do you think when you hire somebody with will, what do you think creates a, you know, on the hierarchy of will versus skill, there's this. We hire for high will. We hire for high will, and we'll train the skill. But how do you think cultures create a low will, low skill employee? You don't. You certainly wouldn't hire a low will, low skill. But in cultures, we see it all the time that people end up, the will dissipates or the will is gone. And now you have this low will, low skill employee. How do you think cultures can guard against it? Or how do you think they create that?

Speaker A: Yeah, and I appreciate the compliment that, um, everyone must be like that here. But there's definitely been pockets where that's not true, where we had low will. Um, and I think it's low buy in. You know, people want to feel like they're a part of something special to drive it, and they want to feel like they're a part of driving it. So when you don't really, you're not motivated. If you're not creating change, you're Not. You're not affecting the business. So in some departments where they've got a strong leader who's really good, but maybe isn't allowing them to be a part of the process and come along for the ride, and yet they're working hard, they're gonna have really low will.

Speaker B: Yeah, their will just starts to kind of bleed out of them.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I would say advice would be figure out how to get that buy in, have the right conversations, communicate a ton, give, um, transparency. And then also I have this problem. Right, right. I'm a far, far extrovert. I'm very opinionated. Uh, you know, I feel like I can win an argument with pretty much anybody. And so that becomes a problem in a business when you're running a business with, you know, 400 people, where I have to approach meetings and say, okay. I've read books on active listening and say, okay, now I need to make sure they're getting their point across. I'm recognizing that point. And then we're getting from the group, what is the right answer? Just because I say something with conviction, um, and it sounds right, doesn't mean it is right. And we fall in that trap a lot of times. And so how do we empower our people to avoid, um, that low will? And when we get buy in, they feel empowered. They're making an impact on the business. They're gonna drive for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So how. So how does vision play into that? So we want to paint a vision that they see. Want to paint a vision that they, that they buy into, that they support. How important is that? And how do you create that vision, especially for a company? One, a publicly traded company, two, a company that seems like it's very successful, but still, yet rounding first base, um, how do you create that vision? So clearly that they go, yeah, I want to go exactly where they're going.

Speaker A: Well, one, uh, that is an area they do want me and want our leaders to lead is they want a vision. They're not asking for themselves to create that vision. They're saying, show me the vision of where we're going. But I wanna buy into that vision. So, you know, one of the things I do, I have a pretty tight circle when it comes to bigger decisions in my life, but when it comes to things like that, creating a vision, I'm asking everybody. So it's constant communication on, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? So as the vision's coming to life, I get ideas, and I immediately ask 20 people, what do you think of it? And when 19 like it, we're headed down the right path. And so I think you have to include them in the process. Uh, but you have to go create that vision. And I think for our brand, you know, 17 and a half years in now, you know, that vision is rethought about every two to three years. And I think you can't sit back and think, Travis, Matthew's always been this, so it'll always be that. I think there's some certain principles you want to keep, but you have to adapt with the environment, you have to adapt with your employees. And so I think that vision is always changing. So you do have to be really clear and transparent about it. And then once you deliver the vision, the why is the most important part of the vision. Because if you just deliver the vision, you're never going to get buy in unless you give the why behind it and you let them challenge it. And you probably tweak some of those whys.

Speaker B: Yeah, so, so let me ask this question in your time here, and what's interesting is that you are employee number one. You were the first employee in this company. 17 years later, you're running the company, you're in charge of the company in those. In that entire span, what was the biggest vision change or pivot point that you had to make, that you or Travis Matthews had to make? You were, you're heading in this direction and you're like, all right, well, we've been doing this for four years. Here's a vision shift. Here's a vision change.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's a couple points in the company. I think one that really comes to mind is we had at the time, um, 15 independent reps. Uh, and independent reps basically have multiple lines that they carry. So they're going out to country clubs, to resorts to sell our product. But they might have a range finder line, a footwear line. And so essentially it's their business, not your business. And so what we were finding was, as we think about the ideal employee, you know, that has all that will, that wants to be a part of your brand. Um, you know, they certainly, we had some with will, but it wasn't exactly what we were looking for. We wanted someone to really own the business. Uh, it's really expensive to go the company route. You know, you have to pay for their expenses, pay for their samples. You know, all in costs are going to be well over six figures. Um, and so we thought long and hard. We had an off site, Travis and I, for Two days. And then we came with the big plan to our investor of we want to go invest all this money, and here's where it can lead us. Uh, you know, over the next three years, we went to 25 company reps from independent. These are people that worked for Travis, Matthew. We're a part of corporate, we're a part of the team. And man, it's the best shift we ever did. Um, we went from 6 million to 12 million to 24 million like that. Um, and we took. Went from 1% market share in golf to over 4% market share extremely quickly. Um, and looking back, that was a pivot in our vision of what the scope at the time, which was mainly a wholesale business, what the scope of wholesale looked like and how we could go attack it in a different way.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so, uh, that's exactly what I was looking for as far as an opportunity to change the vision as the leader of the company. How much? I don't want to say courage does that take, but conviction in yourself to be able to say here, I know this is going to cost a ton of upfront money. I believe it's going to work. I believe the ROI is going to be there. I believe that it's going to be there. But. But if it doesn't, it's a big miss. It's a big financial miss because you slow sales down while you're still investing, investing the money in salary. So you go in the opposite direction both ways. Uh, is there, as a leader, how much courage does that take to make that decision, do you think, or belief it takes to make a decision like that?

Speaker A: I think more belief than courage. I don't think it takes a lot of courage. I think you really have to believe it's gonna work. Um, I am a fan of contingency planning. So it's not that you don't create some contingency plans, but you go all in for a given period of time on it. So I think what I've done as a leader, and I think it's been effective, is the decision making that I make on the larger decisions. It's well thought out. I've spoken to a ton of people, we've done all the research, we have all the metrics, it's trackable. And then we drive 100 miles an hour on it instead of looking back and questioning two months in. Well, it's not quite where. I don't care. That's not working yet. We're going to keep driving it. We're going to figure it Out. A lot of people get three to six months into a plan and they already start tweaking, going different directions. You gotta drive that plan and drive it hard. You gotta have your people believe in that vision. It takes time. Um, and it probably did. I think actually the first, uh, one we hired worked really well, but the next three took a little bit of time. But we believed in the vision. We kept running with it. Now we've got, I think today we've got 36 outside, um, company reps. Wow.

Speaker B: Wow. I think there's a difference. People talk about in business, um, you know, have a culture of failing. Have a culture of, you know, failing is okay, but there really is a difference between smart failings and dumb failings. Smart failings are exactly what you just talked about. As far as it's well thought out, it's strategic, it's buy in. We've thought about the contingency plans, we've done all the homework. It didn't work out, but it was still very smart failing because we learned what we did wasn't reckless. Where there's dumb failings, which is just reckless decision making. No thought out, no, just m done from the hip. I think the idea of that smart failing, that takes a special type of leader to be able to think like that. Where did that come from for you? At what point did you acquire the skills to think like that? Was it, you know, I had this great mentor. It was, you know, I've just read a ton of books. Where did that strategy, that mindset come from?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, uh, uh, one, it starts with having the right people around you 100%. If you don't have that, if you don't have the right people to tell you you're wrong, you're gonna fail. Stupid. There's just no way to get around it. We all have egos, we all think we're right about a ton of stuff. But if you don't have the right group, so I would say, you know, it starts with the right circle of people that can check me and then me checking my ego and saying, just because I believe in it, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. And then I think it ultimately comes, especially at this size of a business with hiring. Great. So not only do I have a group of people in and out of the business, but I've just got incredible leaders in the business that I feel absolutely confident if those two or three key leaders that I really believe in, um, believe in it, we're all going to drive it together.

Speaker B: Yeah. So talking about your circle, talking about your circle, what's the criteria? What's the entrance fee to be in Ryan Ellis circle? What are the traits? What are the mindset? Who gets past the keeper of the gate?

Speaker A: Um, honesty and trust. And you build trust through honesty. So that's one of the most important, I think, the ability to call me on my own stuff. Right. So whatever you want to call that trait, somebody who's not afraid to speak up, shared, um, passion, um, it's very hard for me. I'm very passionate to deal with low passion people. It just doesn't work. Um, I had a really successful employee for a given time, and he started struggling, and we went to a trade show. He was a sales guy, and I watched him and I sat him down after, and I said, um, I need more passion out of you. I'm not seeing it. The customer's not seeing it. It's not resonating. They're not purchasing. And he said, ryan crossed his arms. I'm the most passionate person you'll ever meet. I said, maybe I need to redefine passion. Outward passion and emotion. Look at me. Look how I'm talking to you. Look at my inflection. I'm lifting out of my seat. Look at my hands. That's passion. You can tell I care about this conversation. I can't tell that you do. And so people that understand that, that really go to the wall for you. Um, but I think it's honesty, and it's the people that'll check you. It's the people that aren't afraid to tell me what I don't want to hear. Uh, because that's what I need the most.

Speaker B: When was the last time you checked? When was the last time that you can think of, uh, that you just checked and you're like that?

Speaker A: It shook me.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I would say every company survey we do checks me. I read every single result we. I don't know how many lines of, of, you know, challenges we have, but I'd guess it's in the thousands. And it's really hard as you're a leader trying to build this great company. You're trying to make a great culture. You feel like you're doing some of the right things, and then you go through the list of, of here's all the things you could do better. So I would say the. I'm getting better at it, but it definitely rocks me a little bit every time I read it. But I know I need to read it, and I'm a big Fan of reacting versus overreacting. So, and I tell my leaders this, you get some feedback, react to it. You have a personality. You are who you are. If you try to be someone you're not, you will fail. But if you take who you are and you make it a little bit better, and you make it a little bit better, then you're constantly evolving, improving, and you're doing it your way so you can be the best version of yourself. So I would say the surveys get me, um, and we've had a good run. I don't think a lot else has gotten me. I'm sure as we went through 20 and 21, there was, there was quite a few things. Um, but, yeah, I think it's, it's, um. You know, probably what gets me now is I don't get enough feedback. I think, especially from employees. I think that's, you know. Yeah, I'd mentioned to you, lonely at the top. That's some of what that is. It's like people talk to me differently. I don't get to see their real self. I get to see their self in front of the CEO, which is weird for me because, you know, I came from. I was one of the employees, I was packing the boxes, and I grew up in this company with being one of them, but it's a different deal. And so I think it's, it's. That's probably what I've been focused on lately is how do I. I'm obviously doing something wrong if I'm. If I'm not getting the feedback I need, because I know I'm not doing everything right. So if I'm not getting negative feedback, then I'm not eliciting that feedback in an appropriate way. So I need to rethink how I go do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's kind of where I'm taking the next part of the conversation is this idea of, and we talked about it a little bit off camera, that the biggest threat to your culture is the conversation that you're not a part of. The biggest threat to your culture is the feedback you're not a part of or the feedback that you're not getting. And so I have a client who they hired us to come in and help with their culture. And so on the interview, he said, you know, we have a great. We have an amazing culture. And I said, well, what makes it amazing? He said, well, I have an open door policy. He said, matter of fact, I don't even have an. I don't even have a door on my Office like literally have taken the door off. Door off.

Speaker A: My office wouldn't recommend that.

Speaker B: And I said, I said, oh, okay. I said, so, um, I said, how does that, you know, that's great, it's great theory but you know, what makes you think you have a great culture? He said, well, in the last year nobody's walked through the door. I said, do you hear the words coming out of your mouth? I said, um, open door policy is lazy leadership because not their responsibility to walk in, it's your responsibility to walk out. So how do you, how do you think you elicit that feedback to be part of those conversations that you're not getting? Because it's hard. I'm not, I'm um, you know, I'm not taking onus off of employees because I think they, they, they own a part in being part of the conversation. But how do you get them to feel comfortable knowing that the person they're giving feedback to at the end of the day has a direct impact in their lively well being. They affect whether they have food to put on the table. Like your decisions. You say you have 400 employees, roughly 400 employees. So let's say the average family size in America is three. Three something. I just say three. That's 1200 people. And then uh, at least 1200 people directly your decisions impact. So how do you get that person knowing that you impact their life at such a great level to say, hey, I don't agree with what you're doing here and I got to tell you why, without fear of that, you know, that negative bias that might come along with it.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's quite a few ways to do it. I would say, you know, the corporate answer would be 360 feedback. Right. Go elicit that feedback anonymously and look at, you know, the similarities between, again, it's a react versus overreact. Look at the similarities of. If five people said this, it's probably true. If one person said it, maybe that's their individual experience and try to find out who that might be. I think the more real way to do it for Those not doing 360 reviews, um, is to kind of reward um, verbally the people with the onus to step up and say that to you. And then to have the one to ones versus the group settings to sit down with them and elicit that feedback. And maybe what I try to do a lot is beat them to some of it because I know some of my tendencies. And um, I might sit down and say, felt like in that last meeting I ran you over a little bit. How are you feeling about that? Do I tend to do that a lot? And so that opens a dialogue, because now that I've got an open dialogue and they feel comfortable and they're in a safe space because I'm admitting my own flaws, then they probably mention a few more things to me that, like, oh, you're also doing this. I'm like, great. This is the information I need. I'm gonna watch myself, my head of hr, um, trying to think of the exact terminology I used and thankful I don't remember it because I haven't been using it anymore. Oh, I completely disagree with you. Was a phrase that I've used a few times.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And she caught me in a meeting. She pulled me after and said, ryan, you know when you say that, it's like, really disparaging to the team, and it's very aggressive and, like, that's not a way to start an argument. And they're not going to be listening after you do it. And I said, and it wasn't two weeks later. And I'm like, I can't.

Speaker B: I caught myself.

Speaker A: And I caught myself. And I looked at her, gave her a wink, and I'm like. And then I. Actually, she was in my office a couple weeks ago, and it's been six months, and that happened. And she goes, I'm so proud of. You've never said that again. I'm like, I'm so proud of you to have the courage to come to me with something like that and say, hey, don't do that. It's not having a good impact on the employees. And so I really think it's showcasing and really pushing those people up that have the ability to do that for you.

Speaker B: I love that answer you have hanging on your walls here. And it seems to reverberate throughout your culture. But you had, uh, curiosity up there. You had emptying curiosity. The dynamic of this is unbelievable to me is in a business where certainty, your business is built on certainty. Uh, the more certain somebody is in the brand, the more likely they are to buy it. The more certainty an employee is in the company, the more likely they're to support it. The more certain a company is in an employee, the more opportunities for that employee. But certainty is interesting because when you have complete certainty, it's the killer of curiosity. Because if I'm so certain about my marriage, then I stop being curious about it. I'm so certain in my company brand that we're the best in who we need to be. They're the best. Well, I'm no longer curious about how to become better. So how do you blend those two things where, yeah, we want you to be certain. I want you to be certain. I want to be certain as a business owner that I'm making all the right decisions. But if I have too much certainty, I'll no longer elicit that feedback, I'll no longer look for it and I'll kill curiosity, which will kill my growth.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it's uh, basically getting fat and happy, right? How do you avoid getting fat and happy? The business is thriving, you're growing a ton, you're doing a lot of the right things. I think the people, it goes back to hiring the people we hire, including myself, we have a growth mindset and that's where it starts. The start that constant quest for something new, something better, to constantly improve. And so I think curiosity goes along with that of like how could we get better? And everything we do at Travis Matthew, especially as we brought a lot of leaders from the under armours of the world, the vans, the Adidas, um, because we need that help from leaders that have been to 500 million and billion dollar companies, um, is really blending that. A lot of times they come in and we struggle with people like that in the past because they come in with like, here's how you do things. And we're like why? Why, why, why, why? And then we have a way of doing things and we're like why, why, why, why? So the, the beautiful blend we have now is we have the way we've been doing things, ideas of how other companies do things, and then our constant quest is just to find the right way to do things, which is a never ending quest because whatever's right today changes tomorrow. So we have to keep tweaking and modifying. So without, you know, I've had a CFO in the past, not my current cfo who he redo a spreadsheet every day and I can't figure it out. And it's like, I get you're trying to make it better. I don't understand the last one. So I'd rather have simplified information that's not as good so you can overdo that piece of it. But I think that constant quest to not what is industry standard or how have we done it? How have we done an industry standard or just learning points to how you could do it? How do we take that and make it even better?

Speaker B: Yeah, man, I love that. So this idea of constant feedback, this idea of never be too certain Involve your people in the process. All of those attributes make up part of your leadership and part of how you've grown this company. What are some other traits about you as a leader that you'd say, this is what I'm hanging my hat on. This is a core component of who I am. It doesn't matter whether I'm leading my son's basketball team or from leading a $400 million, um, business. What are those key principles for leadership that you think are just ingrained in you now that make you the leader that you are?

Speaker A: I think one thing that people miss, especially as you're growing in a business, you get to bigger positions, is specializing and really knowing your skill set and driving that, improving on your weaknesses. But if you spend all your time and your weaknesses, you're not gonna have strengths. And so taking your strengths and driving. So, for me, we talked about it. I didn't know it early in my career. I'm a sales guy, right? I love sales. I love selling the clothes is one of my favorite parts of the business. Um, I love product, too. And scenario, I'm really strong. And I always say, as long as I'm here, sales and product, we'll be driving full steam all the time. And so I learned, rather than saying, I'm going to be great at operations, I'm going to be great at accounting, I'm going to be great at it. I hired for those positions. I think what people have trouble with is admitting their weaknesses and saying them out loud. When I took this job, you know, I talked to my boss and I said, I don't know if I can do this job, because here's where I'm not good and I need a little guidance to go, no, no, no. This is what I want you doing. We'll go higher for those positions. And so I think the courage, and it's really difficult, the courage in a business to say, I, I'm not very good here. People don't want to do that. They want to hide the places they're not good, and then they get exposed later. So I think one of the qualities that I have shown the team is it's okay to not be good at something. Raise your hand, we'll find a way to either get you better or find someone that can help. And then I also think not broadening your scope too quickly. Wait until you can get great or at least really good. Uh, I want you to move fast, but really, I don't want to keep giving people more and more and more because they're doing a good job. Let them excel where they are and then start layering more on them. I think that's. That's a challenge. You get good people in and it's just like, oh, they can do that. They can do that. Give them m everything. And you just took someone who's excelling and turned them in a just okay everywhere. And now they're drowning in it. And so it's really like maximizing your talent with those best people knowing where are they really good. Let them just drive there and hire for other things.

Speaker B: So that. So. So what I hear you saying is there's a lot of emotional intelligence. That. Because the first 10 of emotional intelligence is self awareness and the ability to admit, hey, this is where I'm really strong and this is where I'm really weak. So how do you teach. How would you teach somebody emotional intelligence? How would you teach somebody to raise their EQ to lead them to more successful relationships and more successful business? Uh, EQ seems to be the tenet, like the. Probably one of the most important things in leadership is the ability to be self aware.

Speaker A: You might have stumped me on that one. How you teach somebody that. I do feel like a lot of times it's ingrained in you. Um, I feel like all the teachings, at least from my standpoint, it's probably a little different from you. But as I get to speak to my same company over and over again, you have to lead by example a lot. And so you have to showcase it. So again, I would have this conversation with my team. Hey, I went to the CEO of Topgolf Callaway Brands, you know, $4 million, $4 billion company, and said, I'm not good at this, this and that. It's really hard to do. And I get it's going to be hard for you to do, but look how where it's gotten me. And I'm also going to showcase you. Here's the areas I think you might have challenges with. How do you feel about that? And here's where I want you to drive. So a lot from my direct reports, I'm already helping them drive there. And I got. I did have good mentorship on that. I do have to say with Travis, we were three years in the company. I was running sales and ops. But what did that mean? It meant like, I went and got the order, I put it in the system, I packed the box, and there's, uh, some fulfillment in, you know, operations. You're getting a lot done every day. There's sales days. You sell Nothing. Right. Um, and ops, there's stuff getting done every day. I can tangibly say, here's what I did today in sales. It's like I didn't do anything worth anything. I mean, I drove around a bunch and tried to meet with some people that didn't want to see me. M and Travis said, we gotta get you out of ops. You're a sales guy. Am I really a sales guy? Um, and so had some really good man. He goes, yeah, you're not good at

Speaker B: this other stuff because you see, you just seem, you appear to be very self aware, and there seems to be a lack of that recently. I think it's getting worse. Uh, I don't know if it's getting worse, but there are. People just aren't self aware of the things that are holding them back of their own weaknesses. Because we live in a culture where I think to your point, the weaknesses or the, um, maybe not strong points are kind of bottled up and we over exaggerate the things we're really, really good at. But you have to know the difference between the two. You have to know that, hey, you're not good at this. And then, you know, we have people that. I have people that are great salespeople. I work with owners and they say, man, this person's such an amazing salesperson. But they're horrible on paperwork and they need to get better at paperwork. I'm, I'm like, no, no. Like hire a $10, $15 an hour assistant to do their perfect work. Let them go sell. Um, do you find that to be something you deal with is helping people become more aware?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. But I think going back to what you said, we've done some really interesting things here because, like, I equate like the sales thing or even design to management because everyone thinks their next step is I should be a manager. Well, do you have the ability to manage people? Uh, so there's sales roles where you got a great salesperson, but they probably shouldn't be managing people, they should be managing accounts. So we've created levels in sales to say you can go from a sales professional to a senior sales professional to a key account person in design. You're not done at designer and senior designer. We've got levels where you can just be a, uh, five creative, but your development doesn't stop. And so I think you have to create that. Otherwise, if I'm a designer, do I want to be a designer for 25 years? Like, what is my next step if I don't have a Next step. I'm not very motivated. And so I think you have to look at those pockets like that and say, how do we create roles where you understand you can evolve and you can grow in the organization without having to do a job? That's probably not going to be something you're good at. Um, but I do think I agree with you. Self, uh, awareness is a challenge. Um, I do feel like I've always been very self aware. I, um, do think a lot of top performers are very self aware and I think that's how they get where they get agreed. We're not playing detective to find their weaknesses. They know right off the bat or they learn them or they listen over time. Uh, but yeah, I think that's.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the most successful people are the most self aware, but that also have a bias towards action. So I can be self aware but then not have an action and the awareness doesn't do me any good. So just because aware, the greatest thing about awareness is it gives you choice. If I'm blissfully unaware that I'm struggling with something, then I don't have a choice. But if I'm aware now I have a choice. And they take a bias towards action. I think that's the most important thing is do you have this bias towards action when you realize what you're great at or what you're weak at or that maybe I don't control my emotions as well as I would like to. Are you doing something about it? I think the most successful people do that. They have this bias transaction which seems to be. I, uh, was writing down in my notes, who is Ryan Ellis and what does he do? And the number one thing, thing I kept circling back is the word action. Bias towards action. It seems like you're not a sit and wait kind of person. It's a. And you mentioned in one of your interviews, you know, I go 100 miles an hour, which means I'm always taking action. How important is having a bias towards action? Taking action for you and for your company?

Speaker A: Oh, it's everything for me. I mean, I get up early, um, I'm up early, I jump in the shower. I probably on average get out of the shower three times to take notes on something that I thought about in the shower. That's the action I'm not gonna forget. I need to do it. Then I get that note, I get to the office, I'm writing up a creative of what that would be, whether it's a product, whether it's a marketing idea, whether it's a sales idea and I already know who's gonna be up at 5 or 6 o'.

Speaker B: Clock.

Speaker A: And so I've got the Rolodex of who works here that's gonna be up. And so I'm hitting them up first and I'm like, action, action, action. Then by 7 o' clock, I've talked to 15 people and that idea is already in motion. Um, and so, you know, I think to stay ahead of the competition, we have to be that way. We have to be about action all the time. And I think, um, we mentioned the company survey. It's like, I can guarantee you the second that survey is over and I read everything. I had four things to meet with HR to say. Here's things I think we should do immediately. And too many people sit on their heels. And you talked about it from a sales standpoint. You've got this inbox full of actions you have to take. And by the time you take those actions, you've forgotten things about them. It's later than the person would expect. And there's not. My best salesperson I ever had was not an organized salesperson. But every single meeting he had, he emailed them a recap immediately after the meeting. He did not leave until he emailed. And so he was able to overcome unorganization because he took incredible action. Um, and I think one of the things you have to be careful of is taking too much action or not prioritizing that action. Uh, because what we can do is we can have small things and take action and go, we need to do it now. And it's interrupting some of the bigger things we're doing. So that's one of my learnings in this role is we need to be really smart about our action. We, uh, still need to move as fast but on less things. And so figure out what are the top priorities that are really going to drive the business and make sure we're acting as quick as we can on those and driving those fast.

Speaker B: Where's the, where's the, uh, pressure, Pressure release valve for you? Where, where is the, where is he? Because as the CEO of a publicly traded company, the father of two kids, husband, friend, salesperson, um, all these different titles you play, all these different roles you Play. You got 18, 20 different people reporting to you in a 400 person company. Where's the relief? Where and how? Because you had mentioned it that it's lonely. Top. I own my own company. Certainly not the size of yours, but have a podcast. I wrote a book. I have all These things. I'm always juggling 50 balls. Um, and seems to be the higher I go, the more I take on, the lonelier it is. The higher the climb.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: The harder it is to breathe. I stay down the base level. I got tons of people around me. It's easy to breathe. You keep wanting more, and you get to this. This summit, and it's harder to breathe. There's not as many people up there. Where is that for you?

Speaker A: Well, I think just on that point, the higher sense of purpose is what gets you through that. Um, the amount of people you can affect and then what your goals are. I think, you know, a couple releases. I think from a business standpoint, I think, uh, it's my calendar. You know, I talked to you a little bit. If I can sit down and look at my next three months, you know, when I started a very low stress level. So that helps me. So me being stressed is probably like 6 out of 10 what a normal person is. So I'm already pretty steady there. I compartmentalize well. Uh, so I can leave work, and I'm still checking work, but I can kind of check out and have. My wife hates when I talk about work, so that's easy. We don't. She's not one of my outlets to go talk about work and get advice. Um, but really looking at my calendar and saying, what do the next 90 days look like? I spend three hours, go through the calendar. What do I need to lop off? Where am I bucketing my time? And it's sort of just a decompress of, like, it feels like there's so much going on over the next 90 days. And then we've sorted it out. We figured out what our priorities are. We've lopped some stuff off. We've got stuff we need to do. We know what the high leverage moments are. We've built enough time before and after those to kind of decompress on those. And then it's like, exhale, we're good. Let's go get it right. Like, that's what it feels like. And so. And then from a home standpoint, when I rebalanced my schedule, which started in, like, 2019, and I started getting up really early and sleeping less, it really changed the game for me because what happened is, you know, I'd take the kids to school. I'd get here at 9, 8 or 9. I'm here till 6 or 7. I get home, the kids are like, putting the kids to bed. So let me see this. This is the time I get with my kids, I, uh, take them to school and put them to bed. That's not quality time. And so when I reshifted my schedule, you know, most of the time I try, I have been working a little later, but I try not to set meetings until, you know, after four, or at most nothing after five. So if I get home at 5:30, you know, I've got three and a half meaningful, impactful hours. I take my son outside, we shoot hoops for a little bit, come inside, do some homework with them. We're actually on the show lost from like 20 years ago. We're back on that. They're like super excited about it. So we're like in watching Lost every night. Um, and so that was a real game changer. So I think you have to look at your calendar for both your life and your work and say, how do I rearrange work so my brain works, right? And I'm thinking clearly because I got too much going on and it's going to stress me out. So resetting that and then at home, sort of resetting your schedule, whatever that means for you. Some people, it may be coming in later, right. And maybe making breakfast and having that time in the morning, taking their kids to school, maybe that's meaningful for them. But I think you've really got to map out your life and build a calendar for yourself. Otherwise your life just gets chaotic and it runs you. Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and I think that's the challenge. Most people under underappreciate the value of the calendar and the value of their schedule. Some to me, I don't know, um, if I heard a preacher say this or I don't remember where I heard it. But if you want to know what's important to a person, look at their checkbook and their calendar. Those are the two things that matter. Where they spend their money and where they spend their time. Because those are the biggest commodities you have, right? Your time is the biggest commodity. Um, I think a lot of people find they try to improve themselves in time they don't own. And so what I mean by that. My life changed when I realized I was trying to get better personally, professionally, in hours that I don't own. So what I meant by that is I have twin daughters and I would, you know, they would get up at 6am to get ready to go to school. Well, the minute they wake up, I don't own that time because I have to be ready for them, to help them get ready for school or take them to school or do whatever. And then right from there, my day started. So clients could call me. I had calls, I had schedule. And that would go all the way until 5 or 6 o'. Clock. I couldn't schedule an hour here, an hour there because I don't know when those impromptu people are going to need me. And those seem to happen a lot. Then at six o', clock, I'd go back home and I'm back on dad duty. And that would go until 8 o' clock and they go to bed. And so, like, I didn't own a lot of my day. Sounds crazy for a guy who's so schedule oriented. But what I did was I just trained myself to wake up at 4:00am, um, from 4 to 6, nobody's looking for me. And if a client calls me, they're not expecting me to answer. If an employee needs me, they're not expecting me to answer. So I started winning and owning and developing myself in times that I could 100% guarantee I own. It seems to me like your days are getting longer, but you're taking more time, more control of the time you own. Would that be a fair.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Complete control. And what you did was the unlock. I mean, anyone listening, do it. It's an unlock. It's an absolute unlock. Uh, it's taking over your life really. I mean, it's really taking control of your life. And it's funny, uh, most of the people at Travis Matthew call me crazy. And I'm like, you know, I seem to be the one that's the most under control, the most balanced, the person that gets plenty of time with their family. Um, you know, I don't come into work stressed. And so, you know, in fact, the times that I do is when I lose that a little bit. Like when I lose that scheduling a little bit and all of a sudden I'm falling off. It's just like that. I gotta reset and say, okay, what do I need to do to create better habits so I can get back to an unwinding routine where my Phone's down at 8:30. You know, I put my kids down at 9, I'm asleep, 9:15, and I hit that pillow and I'm gone. Because I worked so hard that day and I spent all my energy and I'm done and I wake up at two or three, uh, get back after it here at four and then get back on that schedule. When you're doing that, man, there's no better feeling than just completely owning that part of your life. Um, but it is hard to Replicate. People don't like waking up early, but once you train your body to do it, it actually has the opposite effect. You wake up with energy. My best hours are the first three hours. That's why I said, I'm in the shower, like thinking about, oh, I've got an idea. I better like write that down because I've completely changed the way my body thinks about it. Now I will say, from a work standpoint, I'm fairly worthless at 6 o' clock at night, right? And I've told, I've told everyone that, hey, you can reach out to me for emergencies, but I'm pretty much checked out after six because you got to remember, I've already worked a, uh, 12 or 13 hour day if I get to that point. So I'm not going to, you know, my late meetings. Let's make it something I can just listen and learn now. Let's not make it something that I have to be a big part of because, you know, I'm really moving in the mornings.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's me. I think that if I, if you. By seven o', clock, I'm mentally fatigued and so I can't, I can't make those decisions. I can't. I'm not good at doing things at 7 o' clock because I've used all my energy throughout the day when I need it most. And again, I think if you win the mornings for me, and this is not a push for people to change their schedules, you got to find out what works for you. But I think a lot of people, they think, and I hear it all the time. I could never wake up at 4am no, you just never have. You certainly could. Just like anything else, the muscle that you have to train, I think that's the key is winning the day on time that you 100% own. And my life seven years ago changed the minute I said, I'm going to own and win. 4 to 6am I'm gonna run, I'm gonna read, I'm gonna work out, I'm gonna shower, I'm gonna cold plunge, I'm sauna. I'm gonna do whatever I want to do and need to do to make sure, and then you can't. Yesterday I was in Vegas and I had a whole bunch of clients for this big conference. And I said, um, I said, all right, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna run to the Vegas signing back, which is an 8, which is an 8 mile loop. Does anybody want to join me and this guy, the cfo of this huge company said I'm gonna join you. And you know, a VP of sales and marketing, this amazing VP of sales and marketing joins me, another VP joins me. So there's four or five of us and we're running back and it's, we're finishing what I call mile seven and it's 6am not even like it's 6am we went to the ran to the Vegas sign which we were staying at the wind all the way to the other end of the strip to the Vegas sign. Take pictures of the Vegas sign and we're finishing up the last mile. And he goes that was unbelievable. And I said what? He said it's 7 o' clock in the morning. It's 6 o' clock in the morning. And I said yeah. And he said, uh, I said the great thing about this David is it doesn't matter what happens the rest of the day. The rest of the day you know that you got better today. The day could fall apart. You could have meetings and this could go there and that could go there. But you won the day. And for me that's what's pushes that motivation and pushes that energy where most people, to your point, they get out of bed in the morning and they feel already behind or they feel joggy and everything is a catch up throughout the day. And you seem to be a very proactive person as opposed to a reactive person. You're proactive with your schedule, you're proactive um, with your appointments, with your business, all these, you're very strategic. There's always going to be some reaction. But when we can control that morning, for me it's a, it's a game changer. That does mean I'm going to go to bed at 8:30, 9 o' clock in the night.

Speaker A: But what are you going to do from 8 to 10 that's going to be so meaningful, impactful. Usually it's lazy stuff we're doing at 8, 10 we're just cutting the TV watching or what. I mean I enjoy sports so I do want to watch a Lakers game. But I think you make a really good point about the morning routine for people that don't want to work an extra 3, 4 hours in the morning. And it's not all that for me as well. Uh, I think whether it's working out, whether it's working, whether it's doing, it's just doing something productive to make yourself better, whether it's reading a book, you know, for me it's like I already knew when you, before you said what you were gonna say about that run. I already knew what you were gonna say because I get the exact same feeling when I surf. If I go for an early surf, I'm, um, Like, the rest of the day is just. It's all good from here on out. My mental state is great. My physical state is great. Like, whatever happens from here on out, today's a good day. And you kind of go in with that mindset, and whether it's that or coming in, working for an hour or two, working out, showering, and then you sit back at your desk and it's like, no one's here. Uh, so that's a little bit of that Mamba mentality of, like, if I just got three to four hours of things done and no one's even awake, like, I am winning. And I do that at home. My fan, like, that's. This is why I sleep a little less, is like, I'll, you know, I'll get up at, you know, 4:00am and I'll go do a hike in Crystal Cove. And it's like a, you know, two and a half, three hour hike. I'll come back, I'll work for an hour. I get home, everyone's asleep. I've missed nothing. I've literally missed nothing. And then let's go, let's start our day.

Speaker B: It's so crazy because two points, as you said. This came up to me. So, one, I'm extremely competitive, but I'm more competitive with myself than I am with anybody else. So to me, it's me against me. I know that sounds crazy. I know people love, they, like, I'm the hardest worker. There's nobody that'll outwork me in the gym.

Speaker A: I'm like, somebody will.

Speaker B: Yeah. And for me, to me, I don't understand the mentality. And what I mean by this is, uh, for me to say I'm the hardest worker in the gym, that means I gotta be paying attention to what everybody else is doing. And so for me, I don't know if I'm the hardest worker in the gym. I know I'm working out harder today than I did yesterday. Just me against me. I know. And. But I'm still competitive. I want to win against others. Um, but when I'm running in the morning and it's 4 o' clock in the morning and I'm on a 5 mile or 10 mile run or whatever it might be, and every house is dark, every house is dark in my mind, I'm just like, I'm winning, I'm winning. You're still sleeping. I'm done. 10 miles before you get out of bed. And the second thing is, I had this shift moment. I believe shift stands for See How I Find Truth moment. See how I find truth. And it was seven years ago. I was here in la. I was staying. I was at a conference at the, um, hotel over on Dana Point. The Ritz Carlton Dana Point. Beautiful, right? And there's a trail, like a walking trail, a running trail right outside of it, and it's on this. You live here, you may know, but this is on this cliff. And if you're not from California, I'm from the East Coast. Surfing is not a thing on the East. I'm saying it is. M at the ocean, but not where we live.

Speaker A: You're at Salt Creek, by the way. That's what you're talking about?

Speaker B: Yes. Is that what it is, Salt Creek? Uh. I look down, the sun is barely, barely breaking above. Like, it's barely up. And there were more surfers out in that water than I could possibly count. And I'm watching them. I'm just standing on this bluff overlooking them. I just started my business probably a year and a half earlier, and I was like, those guys, girls are out there before the sun comes up, and they're not. I don't know anything about surfing, so I don't know if they're professional surfers training, if they're just. Just enthusiasts, right?

Speaker A: They love to do it.

Speaker B: And I'm watching them, I'm like, if these people can be committed enough to put on. And it wasn't warm, by the way.

Speaker A: That's never warm. The water's never warm.

Speaker B: It wasn't warm where I was standing. I was in a hoodie, right? And I'm looking down at them, and it was one of those surreal shift moments where I was like, if these people can get up, get dressed, put on a wetsuit, drive, or walk to the beach, surfboard in hand, getting freezing water to do something they love but they're not getting paid for, then can I do the same thing for a business that I love, that I am getting paid for, that my livelihood commits off of? And I still remember. It's like one of those moments that just, like, etched in my mind where somebody. I didn't know, surfers I never saw. It was actually pretty beautiful too, by the way. If you ever, like, just go look at it from that vantage point to look down, see the sun just breaking up with these people, it was pretty.

Speaker A: You're just talking about my Life here, this is what I do. I go out. So, uh, my favorite time of year is when the sun's coming up at like 5:30, because first light's five. So the secret hack for those surfers, um, I guess I'm giving them the hack now. I shouldn't be. Because there's enough of them is you go out at first light because first light, you go out when it's dark. But you look at the. Pay attention to first light. So if first light is 5:05, you paddle out at 4:55, knowing that 5:05, it's light. You can see the sun's not out. So people are looking at sunrise and they're going. Then you get about 10 minutes to yourself. Then you have the other psychos that come out. You know, that's five of them, right? And you get about 30 to 45 minutes with five, 10 people. I surf Huntington Northside Pier, uh, which is probably the most crowded spot you can go to. And then, you know, by the time the sun rises, you've got 100 people. And so I can take a normal surf session that would be like two hours and do it in 45 minutes. Cause, uh, that first 30 is, like, alone. Uh, and then once the people come, it's like, all right, it's time to get out.

Speaker B: Yeah. Too crazy. But, yeah, isn't that such a great. Like, for me, it was such a great analogy for me of, like, exactly how I want to live my life. I want to be fueled by passion. I want to think differently than everybody else. But I also. But I also want to be committed to what I'm trying to do. Like, those people were committed. I want that kind of commitment and discipline. Uh, do you think that's a rare quality or just a quality that everybody has? They just haven't tapped into it yet or they haven't found their passion. Like, what do you think?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's. I think it's that. I think most people have it. I think they haven't found their passion. They haven't found the motivation to find that passion. Um, and it's like. It's like, all related back to golf, since we're so involved with golf. People catch the golf bug. I mean, they catch it in such a way. I can't tell you how many people I talk to. And it's like they. They live it. They're so excited about it. It's all they're thinking about. And I think with most things, you can catch that same bug. It's just a Little more difficult. Surfing's actually like that. Believe it or not, I hadn't. I was only surfing once every two months before pandemic hit. And then pandemic hit. I started surfing a little more, and it's. And it. I sucked. And I used to be decent. Like, this is no fun. And I just said, I gotta get past this mental block. And I'm going three days a week for the next three months. If I still suck in three months, I'll rethink. Do I want to do this anymore? Within a month, I'm back to my old self, and I'm loving it, having a great time, and I'm going every single week. And now it's no longer I have to take. Tell myself to go. It's like, I'm excited to go, but I have friends that I know if they just follow that would love to go out with me. I have a few that go with me, but I got one in particular that I'm like, I give them so much stuff all the time. Like, just do it. Like, stop making excuses. The water's too cold. I'll go when it's summer. Well, then it's summer, and you've got whatever the next excuse is. And it's like, you just have to stop making excuses, commit to it. And it's like, you know, there's so many things in life you don't want to do. And then when you do it, I mean, how many parties I've been to, that or events I've been to, like, oh, God, I don't want to go to that event. And then you go, and it's like, what incredible time. What great networking. And, uh, it's like, get off your butt, dude. How are you even thinking about not going to that? And that's. There's lots of stuff like this. So I think. I think most people have it. I think just the will, you know, they have to. They have to figure out how they. They get motivated to go do it. And then once they catch the bug, right? Like. Like, most people aren't going to want to run eight miles, but I'll bet you if you force them to run for a month and they started running four, and they never thought they could do it, they'd be like, I'm going, this is. I'm a runner. This is what I do. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, we have a. We have. There's a phrase my clients use, because whenever I'm with the clients, I'm like, all right, you know, let's go for a run. I always ask them, like, what's the furthest you've ever run? I did it yesterday. This girl, my lease, she was. She's, uh. A furthest she's ever run is eight miles. And I just take note of it. And I'm like, okay. And then I'm. And I'll just start running with her, and then we'll go 8.2. She won't even know. And I'm like, oh, you just. Yeah, you just broke it. You just. It's called being chatted.

Speaker A: Oh, that's great.

Speaker B: And the.

Speaker A: Being chatted.

Speaker B: Being chatted. There's even T shirts they'll have. They'll show up and say, I was chatted. I ran a half marathon. I didn't know I was gonna run a half marathon. Um, but I think that. I think part of it is this part about motivation, which I kind of want to talk about. So there's two types of motivation. There's, um, external motivation and intrinsic motivation. Extrinsic. Intrinsic. And so I think great leaders think they have to be motivators, where I think completely different. I think great leaders have to be facilitators. And what I mean by that is to motivate means to push. I'm going to push you. M. I'm going to kind of rah, rah you do things as opposed to. I'm going to facilitate you being intrinsically motivated. I'm going to figure out what intrinsically drives you, and I'm going to use that as a source of leverage to get you to do things that you otherwise wouldn't do so you can achieve things you wouldn't achieve. So how do you keep your people in this organization so intrinsically motivated? How do you facilitate them tapping into that thing, that passion that they might not know? That guy that would love to go surf, he's full of. He has a ton of excuses because he's not intrinsically motivated yet.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I start with. I know you've read Lured to lead.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, um. Or good to great. Excuse me, I've said that wrong twice now. Good to great. We have a program here called Learn to Lead.

Speaker B: So I do. What you mean. Yeah.

Speaker A: Good, good. Great. Um, and it dissects that exact thing which says, you know, surveying the top 10 leaders of these Fortune 500 companies that have had success over time, and there was no qualities about that type of leadership that showcased. Right. That you have to be that more extroverted, passionate, emotional, you know, motivate the troops to have sustained success. In fact, it really didn't factor into it. Now, that said, I want to be that type of leader, you know, despite it maybe not being exactly correlated to, I do think it, it's a piece, um, that can help, right? It doesn't mean you have to have it. It's a piece that can help. Um, and I, you know, I'm just such a big fan of over communication and bringing everyone along for the ride. And that's to me, you know, we started, you know, four or five years ago when I took over. I was president, but I took over as CEO. Um, just tons of communication. People just love transparency. They want to know the why of what we're doing. They want to be in the loop. They want to feel like they're a part of this brand. When you're just working siloed in a department and you have a manager, you never hear from the CEO, you don't hear from the key leaders. You don't know what the business initiatives are. They're not honest with you about what's going on in the company is scary. Right? It's scary as an employee to go, am I going to have my job tomorrow as a company doing well? Um, and you don't take that sense of ownership to like, hey, I have all the ownership in the business because I know what's happening. And so that's my goal with our team, is to over communicate, make sure they're in the loop, admit mistakes. You know, we talk about the survey. I went through the top 10 things that we're getting from our employees and how we're going to address it. And then the next three quarterly meetings, we're gonna talk about those things and what we've done to showcase. We're about action, not just words. It starts with words. Uh, we have to put the words out first and tell you what we're gonna do. But then we have to take that action. And when we showcase that and showcase humility to the team too, on here's where we could have been better, then you build the trust in them that what you're saying is accurate and true. Because you're showcasing not just the great things, but you're also showcasing where you can be better. Uh, and that we live for our employees, not the opposite. They don't have a feeling that we have to do whatever management says. They know we're constantly listening to them. We're constantly doing surveys. We're constantly polling and trying to figure out who do our employees want this company to be. We know they want our leadership and guidance and our vision. But that vision has to match with who they want us to be so we can all be something together.

Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. What's your biggest fear as a leader? What's the fear that you have as a leader? Uh, as a CEO, but. Same as you have as a parent. Same. What is the one fear that you have? What's the one thing that keeps coming back to you, is, I can't have this happen?

Speaker A: Well, there's always a healthy fear of, uh, am I in over my head here? Right. I mean, when you come. When you're somebody who's, you know, come from 0 to 400 million, there's always a healthy fear of am I the right person for this job? I mean, I think that's healthy paranoia. Healthy paranoia, yes, It's a fear, but it's not like it's driving me more than it is beating me down. Uh, Right. And I actually love that. I've always had a healthy fear of am I good enough? You know, mixed with a healthy balance of, I'm doing a damn good job. Right. So it's like, I'm probably three to one. I'm doing a damn good job. And then the fourth one, I'm like, who? This is a lot. Can I handle this? Right? And I think that's always kept me really motivated, on my toes. Instead of ever feeling like I've got this, I still don't feel like I've got this. You know why? Because the next chapter is harder than the last chapter. Um, so I thought, to me, that's the fear. The fear is, am I good enough for this? And then there's a consequence to make sure that I'm not. I know I'm not good enough, so I can keep getting better. Um, you know, on the. On the personal side, I, um, mean, my kids are 12 and 13. It's like, teenage years are scary. You lose them, and who are the friends they're hanging out with? How do I help surround them with the right people? Will they listen to me at a certain point? How can I get my message across without, you know, being too overpowering or them just rejecting and going the opposite direction? Um, that's by far my biggest fear. I want to raise great kids, and they are great kids, but we've got some. We've got the teenage years ahead of us. And, you know, I've read enough about it, I've talked to enough people that, um, you know, it's going to be much more difficult to balance that, to try to influence them. Um, you know, to be the people that we think they should be.

Speaker B: Yeah. So as a. It's the craziest thing because people say, you know, um, I never knew love until I became a parent. For me, it's. I never really understood fear until I became a parent. Yeah. Like, for me, the fear of parenthood and then gives me less fear as a business owner. And I gotta try to figure out how to correlate this. But I get afraid of parenting my kids wrong or not being there for them, or obviously, God forbid, something happens to them. That's fear I've never experienced until I became a parent. When I look at that fear and then I go, well, I, uh, compare it to the fear of being a business owner. It makes the fear of being the business owner not seeming nearly as. As important. Right. As long as I have my family. I know a lot of people say that. Do you find that there's a correlation between your success as a father and your success as a. As a CEO of a ridiculous, amazing company?

Speaker A: I would actually. I know it sounds crazy, but I'd go the opposite direction. Um, I know a lot of people say that, like, I'm a better basketball player because I had kids and all that, but, like, I feel like I've learned so much here and my patience level here is better than at home. Right. And so it's very easy, you know, when you're around people every single day, the same people, your wife or your kids, whatever, to be a little bit snappy. And you learn here, through some of the relationships you have, how you have to navigate and adapt to different people's personalities. Do you ever think about adapting to your wife's personality? Probably not, because you're around the person every day. And it's amazing the times that you do that. The results are phenomenal. And I think, you know, with, you know, my kids, um, it's less about. I don't know, that works influence that a lot. Other than we have a lot of learnings we can give to them. I think it's finding the balance. My dad raised me really hard. I mean, he was really tough, almost militant type discipline. Um, and I've resented him for a while for it, and hopefully he's not listening to this. Um, and. But then look where I ended up, Right? So, you know, 100% a portion that made me who I am. So I'm trying to find that balance with my children of like, uh, how do I put that discipline in them and not overpower and not, you know, give them a little bit of Freedom and flexibility and give them a good experience. At the end of the day, I want my kids to think back to, you know, 20 years ago and be like, I was great. You're a great dad, all that. I don't want them to think. And I get my dad sacrifice for me. He really didn't care about that. He was like, I'm going to make you who you are. Yeah, that's it. So how do we find that right balance to say I want the right amount of discipline, but I also want to give you the freedom to be a kid, live a great life and have a great relationship with me? That feels like we collaborated in who you are not. I dictated who you are.

Speaker B: Yeah. What do you think is your. This is gonna be a kind of a. I don't know if you'd say it's a deep question, but what do you think your purpose is on this earth? I'm saying like, what. What is it that. That Ryan.

Speaker A: That's definitely a deep question.

Speaker B: Was put on here to do.

Speaker A: You know, I don't think about stuff like that a lot. You know, I tend to be a little bit more short term in my thinking about purposes, um, and kind of where I'm at today, where my kids are and what I want to accomplish. Um, but I think if you, if you had to pin me on, you know, long term purpose, I think it's just what I just said. I think it's, it's, you know, my kids are my long term purpose and how do I create? How do I make them better than me? Um, and how do I make myself better every day to do that? Um, because, you know, once you have children, it's, and it's different for everybody but, but for me, that's the purpose. Everything else goes away. Certainly I'm endlessly passionate about Travis Matthew and want to make that work. But you're right. If something happened to Travis Matthew tomorrow, you know, the devastation level of that would be about 1 billionth of if someone had my kids. Right. So, you know, right now, short term purpose is the kids. I don't, I'm not one that's like I'm going to leave a legacy that's this, this and that. My legacy is my kids and hopefully I can build something where they can be better than me and maybe they leave that type of legacy.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Because I think there's three things that drive people. Uh, for me, and I think that's passion, I think it's purpose and I think it's curiosity. I think what you're curious about gives you focus for free. I think that curiosity is the single greatest, um, emotion, um, or feeling that we have, is because when I'm curious, I'm getting better. When I'm curious, I'm getting focus free. Ah, passion, kind of the fuel that drives you. If curiosity is the spark, passion is the passion is the fuel, and purpose is the navigator. I think when you nail those three things, I think that great things happen. I look at you and doing all the research I met through, I was captivated with you. And I've interviewed some of the greatest people, some of the most amazing people on this podcast that I was enthralled with. And some are great friends. Jesse is still a great friend. Gary Vee, great friend. All these people that I've interviewed, um, that serve a purpose and that, uh, have led to people getting better and great industries. But doing the research in you was different. There was something different, um, about you that I was, um, engaged with. But I couldn't put my finger on it because you seem to be very, in all your interviews and every conversation you had with somebody or every article I read about you, you seem very, very even. There was never like an over exaggeration of like, hype, but the same thing. There was never an un. There was never an over exaggeration of like despair. It was like, I'm gonna be consistent, I'm gonna be consistent, I'm gonna be energetic, I'm gonna be a great leader. And so for me, I found that, like, almost, um, refreshing in the sense of it was always good energy, it was always positive, it was always passionate. And it seems through this conversation that you're insatiably curious. Would you say those three principles are conscious? Those three things are conscious that you constantly try to be curious. You have a great passion, you have great purpose. Um, or do you think that's just running on the engine behind in a subconscious way?

Speaker A: No, I think the curiosity one's more conscious. You know, I think I tend to like, go drive things so that the driving of things isn't necessarily the curiosity piece. You almost have to stop a few times for the curiosity, because I tend to like, have an idea and then just go run. And I can formulate a plan really quickly and go, here's what we want to do, here's how we're going to do it. And we go, but you have to slow down for the curiosity piece to kind of go, how might we do this differently? And so I think that for me, that's there's definitely a natural component, but I would say not the most natural. I would say the most natural thing for me. And I think I learned this and where I've had a lot of success learned this growing up is the adaptability piece. Where when I started at Travis Matthew, I mean, we had, I had three, four bosses and they were all very different. They were all like high level people. And so I learned really quickly how to influence them, um, and how to work through their personality to get in a room and say, I have a. I know what I want as an end goal. How do I influence this person to get to that end goal? How do I bring them along for the ride? How do I make them feel like it's our idea, not my idea? Um, and it served me really well. And it's actually something I teach a lot in the business. I've just had two or three conversations last week with, with leaders here that are really good individual contributors, but they're not understanding how to influence. And I always say it's like the Kool Aid man. They break the wall down, it's Kool Aid everywhere, everything's broken and they walk out and the person's like in shambles. And it's like, you know, people shouldn't have to sit. And I know they do for me because I'm the CEO, but people shouldn't have to spend 20 seconds outside your door thinking, how am I going to work around this personality? Like, you need to do that. That's how you should be thinking. So in our larger company, you know, topgolf Callaway, I've created incredible relationships with the key leaders there because I know how to influence and I know, hey, this person doesn't like you to say bad things about them. Okay, well, then I'm going to start with a compliment and then our relationship's going to start working that way. And so I think it's really, really important. But I would say that's one of the qualities that is really impactful, especially in a big business that's growing. Whatever position you're in is really thinking through. How do you create influence? You do it through active listening, but you do it through understanding that you're going to be the chameleon. You, you're still going to be yourself, but you're going to work around other people's personality. If they're working around your personality, you're doing it wrong.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to be authentically curious and adaptable. Uh, I'm going to be me, but I'm going to be curious about you, and I'm going to adapt to you without changing the fundamental core of who I am. Yeah, I love that. All right, just a couple more questions. I know we're over on time. Um, I'm a big faith guy, and I asked my guest. Every. Every guest the same final two questions. Uh, after meeting you, um, you're exactly. Exactly what I thought you'd be. I thought, you know, your authenticity shines through. Um, but after meeting you, I'm going to go home tonight. I'm going to pray for you. What should I pray for?

Speaker A: I guess to be less predictable, because I'm exactly what you thought I would be. Um, you. It's tough because when I think of prayer, it's like when, you know, basketball players praying to win the game, I always feel like it shouldn't be something selfish. So if I'm thinking in terms of that about me and not being selfish, but also, there's always probably some selfishness in it. Like, pray for me to get better. I think that's, you know, if I can get better, if I can affect the people around me in a better way, if I can grow future leaders, um, you know, pray for me to get better. That's what I'm trying to do every day. And certainly it's an area I might need prayer because I need help. I can't do it by myself. I need the group around me to help me do that. And I, um. Yeah, that's what I would say.

Speaker B: Awesome. Um. Where do people. This is not one of the last questions, but where do people connect with you more? Do you want a. I shouldn't say want, but, um, are, uh, you. Do you. Yeah. Want. Do you want a bigger platform? Do you want more people to. Not just for Travis Matthews, but for Ryan Ellis? If you. If you. When you write your book.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, what's it gonna. What's. What's a book gonna be called? You're gonna write a book today. What's that book gonna be called?

Speaker A: I have a book. It's called Triple Switch Mastery.

Speaker B: Triple Switch Mastery.

Speaker A: It's written by A.I. it's a joke.

Speaker B: Wait, how did I. I had an

Speaker A: employee that wrote a book. It's. It's actually awesome. Through AI When I merchandise our line. Uh, so it's like a puzzle. And so, you know, usually you'll make a move here, move there, but I've got a move I call the triple switch. And it's where I take three different items, put them in different places, and rework them all. But then you look at it, you step back and you go, oh, my God, that, like, fixed it, right? And so they. It's the going joke. Like every time I make a switch, they're like, is this a double switch or a triple switch? And so he wrote a book on AI and it's actually awesome. I wrote a book for my wife on it. And it talks about the art of triple switch mastery and all this. It's epic.

Speaker B: That is. I'm like. I'm like, how did you. How did I not know you wrote a book? I'm like, I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, did I miss this?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I haven't written a book yet.

Speaker B: But is that. Is that. Is that a. Is that a. You know, is that not writing a book, but this idea of having you're the CEO of one of the coolest brands, one of the most recognizable brands, growing, taking over. Do you think there's in the future that there's this Ryan Ellis, you know, Lee Iacocca, I think Henry Ford. They've been great leaders, right, that are also going to be these great influencers in how people lead and how. And how people start companies and how people build.

Speaker A: I don't know if on like that macro level that's what I want to do. I think it's. I've thought about it. I do love speaking. I love engaging people. I love m. My number one passion now is shifted. I've had a sales passion, I've had a product passion. My number one passion is for people and taking this business over. It's how do we grow our people? How do we get people to do what I did, go from essentially a sales rep 17 years ago to a CEO of the company. And maybe not everyone becomes CEO, but, um, you know, to get them to that point. So certainly it's a passion point of mine. You know, it's hard for me to think much further out because it's like, we've got this, you know, I've got this billion dollar idea with Travis Matthews. Uh, and we're still pretty far from it, but I think we can get there. So I'm like, everything I think about set pursuit of that. So in terms of like. And I'm also. I work for a public company, so it gets a little trickier to get on a platform in terms of what you can say and what you. What you can and can't. And I think you'll realize with me, like, I'm very transparent. So I've done A good job navigating and not saying the wrong things. But I think it gets tricky as you try to build your social platforms up and things like that and create content that's not, like, at least a little bit controversial or saying the wrong thing. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I think one thing I definitely want to do eventually is help small businesses. I think I can be a great tool because I've come from that point actually, too. I was at a small company before. I was very similar. We got it to about $5 million, so it's much smaller. Um, but there's a lot of pitfalls and there's a lot of templates. I talk to a lot of leaders at companies that are 5 to 100 million, and I'm not afraid to just share my insights and my secrets of, like, here's where you could fail. Here's how you need to be looking at. Here's what the investment needs to be. And so to help somebody else do that is probably more the path, um, I would go than, you know, do a book and be this, you know, kind of social figure. Um, but, you know, again, I've got my eye on the prize, so it's. I think, you know, the door's open for me.

Speaker B: Yeah, I just think it's. I think, you know, after spending time with you, that the greatest. The greatest business education people can get is from people that have already done it and people that have been there. And from you. What you make real is the path towards success because you started as ground level and now are the CEO of Travis Matthews. And that, to me, that climb is what people. I think most people dream of. Forget just the titles, just the climb of responsibility. I think most people want that, but they think it's out of their reach. And so you're kind of. You're a. I'm a influencer. I'm an executive coach. That. The only time I've ever been in a college classroom was to deliver a keynote to the entire business school at University of Alabama. So for me, it's the same thing in the sense of, you know, I feel like if I can do it, I think it's open to anybody.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think that's where your story is going to.

Speaker A: I feel the exact same way. I'm not like, you know, I didn't go to Harvard. I made my way through college. I played basketball in college and went, what am I going to do? And I think I'm like a different variation of the American dream because it feels like The American dream is start your own business, be an entrepreneur. And I think that's awesome, and I think a lot of people. But I also think there's probably, in some respects, too many entrepreneurs. Agreed. Especially early. Gary Vee talks about it, when you're, you know, you're 30, you're young, so why wouldn't you take the first five years of your career to go do it on someone else's dime? Go get your learnings first instead of paying money to learn. Like, uh, pay money to people like you to learn, and then go in a business and learn the business and then start your own business. And I'm all for entrepreneurship. I love it, and I'll probably eventually do it, and I do a little bit now. But I do think, man, what valuable experience I've gotten. And I've gotten paid for it the whole way. And now I can write my ticket. Um, and I don't have to be CEO of the company. I've got my cmo, I've got my head of merchandising and product. Um, I've got few of my top salespeople that have been with me for 10 to 15 years that came right out of college. They can write their own ticket. Whatever they want to do, wherever they want to go, they can write their own ticket. And that's so exciting to be able to build that in a regular business. Not an entrepreneurial business, a regular business.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. That's why I think the rise and the importance of what you talk about, what I say is the intrapreneur be amazing. Intrapreneur. Think like an.

Speaker A: I'm looking for that word.

Speaker B: Think like an entrepreneur. Uh, protect the brand, protect the money, but do it. Do it on somebody else's dime. Get the education. There's no way I'm as successful today with my business if I didn't work for a whole bunch of people for 20 years first, 15 years first. There's no way. And I think that's exactly it. Be a great entrepreneur. Get the information. Great intrapreneurs can become great entrepreneurs, for sure.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker B: Um, all right, listen. Uh, where do people get more of you? Can they follow you? Can they connect with you? Where do. Listen, I. I did a ton of Googling, I read, so if you just Google Ryan Ellis, you'll find a ton.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think LinkedIn's the best one for me. Again, I'm private on the social platform, so LinkedIn's a great one for me.

Speaker B: And then, um, Travis Matthews. What's the last thing people should know about Travis Matthews. It is by far to me, if I knew nothing else, going to that store. And I. I beg any listener that's listening to this to visit a retail store, because the people that Marc Anthony yesterday blew me away, just absolutely blew my mind that he could be so engaged and so energetic and so in line with the brand. People should follow Travis Matthews. And where are they going? What's next?

Speaker A: Um, well, I mean, I think the passion you hear and see from me, like, you're going to see that in product and marketing. Um, I think, you know, if you think we've been disruptive so far and in, you know, 17 years, with 16 years of selling, what we have coming out, the next two years is phenomenal. We've totally revamped, like, how we think about poles and what those look like. Our core category, how we think we went from one shape in headwear. We have six shapes in headwear now. Um, you know, we launched a full pant program that just launched. We've got four new styles coming out in fall. And so the attention to detail and thought of what we put in everything. We don't go into a category unless we see a niche and go, how are we going to drive that category? Denim is our number one selling item, um, which is absolutely insane from a company rooted in golf. I can't believe it's because we rethought denim. Why is nobody doing performance denim that's lighter, stretchier, and more comfortable? And knowing what's hitting that market. The pages and AGs of the world are great, but they're so thick and heavy, so there's nothing to wear in summer. And so we go attack every angle like that. I think what you're going to see us put out is going to be completely disruptive. If you're a fan before, you're still going to be a fan and love it even more. But I think we're going to bring in a lot of new customers of the brand. And don't forget about women's. Our women's line is phenomenal. It's grown like crazy the last few years. Um, and we're investing really heavily in female ambassadors as well as our women's line. And, um, you know, the growth's been incredible. The response has been incredible. And we've got. You know, it's getting bigger.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Listen, you heard it here. If you have not. If you do not own a piece of Travis Matthews, if you have not been to the website, if you have not been to the social media. If you not have been to the retail store, you should go right now. Just do it. Just do it now. Just get online right now.

Speaker A: Walk into a store, take action. Like I say, action. Right now.

Speaker B: Buy auction. I'm fully decked out in them. I'm wearing it today, and I'm super comfortable. And I'm going to a talk at Sofi Stadium right now. And I'm going, I'm going to put a blazer on over top of this. And I'm wearing, literally wearing this outfit with the blazer to a Mastermind talk this afternoon. So thanks again, Ryan Ellis, uh, class act, one of the best CEOs I've ever met. Great energy. Energy never lies. Can't wait to see you next time. Here on the Cannonball Mindset.