90: Matt O'Keefe: CEO of HWPO Training

Speaker A: You're listening to Cannonball Mindset, a podcast

Speaker B: dedicated to helping people achieve the most out of their personal and professional lives. The Cannonball Mindset challenges you to step

Speaker A: out of your comfort zone and lean into the possibility of having a life of abundance. Disruptors, innovators, and groundbreakers are all welcome. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Cannonball Mindset. I am Chad Sanshkrin, and today I get to sit with a great friend. And really, the. The. I don't know, I'm trying to figure out the right word, but the brains, the. The whisperer, the thing that makes great athletes go. And that's. That's my good friend Matt o'.

Speaker B: Keefe.

Speaker A: Matt, thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me. Roll tide.

Speaker A: Roll tide. So I met Matt. We have. We have kids at Alabama together. Uh, my first interaction with Matt was I was at a CrossFit workout. I was dying next to him. He was working out without even breathing heavy. I was dying. I was dying. And he came over and gave me a little tip, and he said, you going to break your elbows and probably hit yourself in the head with the bar if you don't, like, move your fingers this way, Try that. And I was like, who is this guy and why is he giving me coaching in the middle of a workout? Right? Because I like, you're killing it. Clearly killing it. And I was like, okay, I'm doing it. I'm, um, take all the coaching I can get. And I was like, oh, oh, this is easier.

Speaker B: This is.

Speaker A: This is better.

Speaker B: Not a coach, but been around long enough to know. Um, yeah, I mean, I hope I was somewhat nice and professional about it.

Speaker A: You were awesome. You were awesome. I was dying.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And remember, I was with.

Speaker B: Most people are in a CrossFit gym in the middle of a workout.

Speaker A: So I was with Evan Slaughter and Adam, my good friend Adam, and we were all working out, and, uh, from there, built a great relationship. And, um, the more I learned about you, and we were having this conversation offline, but the more I've learned about you, you kind of are the person behind the scenes that makes everything tick. How did we. How did you get to that part? I'm saying, obviously, you're, you know, you're the CEO of Hard Work Pays Off. Uh, very elite position of the most elite athletes in the games. Um, how did it get there? How did you get there?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that my passion was to be in that position, honestly. I mean, my first passion was athletics. I mean, I played uh, sports in university. Like I played football and baseball at Boston College for short periods of time. Both, you know. So I grew up wanting to be a professional athlete and I was very attracted to. I, well one of my favorite movies is Jerry, Jerry Maguire. So I was really attracted to the business side, uh, in the um, the whole sport ecosystem. And I saw you know, maybe, you know, obviously my athletic career was over and that was my opportunity to be involved in sport, which is my passion. Um, and it isn't, you know, I mean in, in in general when I look at my roles in other business units that I was a part of, uh, you know it, it isn't about me. I mean I always wanted to be someone, you know, I work for my dad. Like I wanted to make sure that he looked really good and you know, our business was super successful and everybody, you know, knew their roles and had all the tools to be the best at them. And it, you know, this was just that next evolution of that, um, you know, being sort of behind the scenes. I think some people have problems with that. You know, not necessarily like a credit based role. Um, I thrive in it. I just really loved. And it started with my passion for Matt, you know, know I, I wanted him to be able to get everything he wanted out of his career. And um, that turned into more, you know, that passion expanded into all athletes being able to really realize um, you know, compensation, you know, build a life around their athletics through this sport that was thriving financially but not a lot of it was filtering down to them. So honestly I just, I love that aspect of any business, nevermind sport, you know, just being um, someone that can, you know, really help people be their um, you know, pursue their hopes and dreams. Uh, businesses thrive from behind the scenes.

Speaker A: Yeah, you said, you said something which is really, it never dawned to me in my 50 years on this earth. Obviously um, I'm out in the public eye as far as what I do in the corporate cult in corporate um, training, training realm. But you said uh, that you're, that you are okay not being in the public eye and you're good with that. I like you're good with being that guy behind the scenes. Um, what's that grounded in? I know you said you always like you saw it with your dad, but where does that come from? Like at what point did you say I'm going to shine by making other people shine?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's um, it comes from my parents truly. My mother, very specifically, my mother was a nurse. Uh, some of the coolest people on mother Earth, uh, in general. Um, and, you know, she just, you know, helped people get well. Never got any credit. Had a huge job and at a hospital, uh, you know, had 180 people working for her, but never talked about it, never boasted about it. Um, literally, you know, never got any credit for it. The doctors get the credit. Right. Like, very similar type role. Um, so, you know, I learned a lot from her, that it was, you know, about what you did and who you did it for, you know, and, um, you know, and helping people and, you know, honestly, my mother was one of the coolest people that ever walked the earth. And so, you know, I'm trying to make her proud on a daily basis, you know, and, um, and I really, you know, I really enjoyed watching how she helped people thrive, and it was, you know, and I'm a lot like her, so I think that that's pretty much a lot of it for me. And, you know, it's interesting you say, like, the public eye. I, you know, I think some people in, you know, maybe my micro space would say, well, you're. You have a huge public profile.

Speaker A: You. Max, he.

Speaker B: You know, and, um. But, you know, I don't like. It's not a pursuit of that. You know, I think some of that, it's a result. Um, you know, and I'd rather not, you know, it's really not about that. It's, you know, what we do here, what we, you know, what I've done with athletes is all the same as I just want to help people be their best. You know, what that means to me is immaterial.

Speaker A: Yeah. So. So Matt talks about you with such reverence. Matter of fact, I don't. I have met very few people to talk about another person with such reverence as Matt Frazier talks about you.

Speaker B: That's cool.

Speaker A: Um, he mentioned on the podcast. He mentioned at dinner last night, he mentioned during the workout, like, all things come back to Sammy and Matt o'.

Speaker B: Keefe.

Speaker A: Um, how did that start? Where did that. Where did that relationship create? Like, how did that. How did that bond. He said. He said, you know, Matt o' Keefe was by my side before I was Matt Frazier.

Speaker B: Yeah. It is fascinating. And, you know, that version of Matt, um, was very, um. You know, he was curious and a step further, you know, skeptical about people in general. Right. So it was a long process, which I think really is why we have the relationship we do today, because it's been built on, you know, 100% trust. Um, you know, when I met Matt getting out of weightlifting and you know, coming into the CrossFit space, he never had any sort of designs on, like, revenue or, like, you know, and he learned early, like, he could make a few bucks doing it, but, like, the idea of being, you know, a professional profile world champion, I don't think those were things that he was focused on, um, and. And needing help in that process. And then, you know, I think worse, you know, in terms of, like, how we started, his parents had just had a very poor experience with an agent. So I think he just like, you know, so I think that process of him being incredibly guarded, skeptical, um, you know, with people in general that, you know, get involved in business and, you know, what I needed to do, what was required of, you know, building trust with him, I think has built that beautif. Beautiful relationship today because, you know, I, you know, I handled it with kid gloves. I know, you know, I didn't say, you know, trust, you should trust me, or like, what the. What the. You know, what the hell, Matt? Like, why, you know, why is this so hard, you know, to get over the hurdle with you? I just took it day by day with him and really, um, I grew to love him as a family member. I grew to, you know, you know, really be passionate about how good I thought he could be and then how good he was on what he could accomplish. Um, and it just became this day, day purpose that Sammy and I focused on. Um, and I think that's what you hear when you hear from him is that, you know, uh, we didn't, you know, leave a stone unturned for him and with him and, you know, he got to focus on the things that he needed to do to be a world champion. And we handled a lot off. Off the floor, essentially. And, um, it really was just a foundation for a beautiful relationship between the three of us, really, because we were all in on. I mean, God, what was such an unbelievably cool experience? I mean, I got to, you know, ride the wave with a man that is one of the greatest athletes of all time. Um, so, I mean, I was having a pretty good time in the process, but, you know, I think part of the magic there, and I know he would say this too, is that we. The love we had and care for each other and then passion for delivering for each other helped the greatness raised to another level.

Speaker A: You know, how do you. I'm awestruck by this conversation. Has nothing to do with Matt Fraser.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, it has to do with how do you build that relationship with somebody that sees more in you than maybe you even see for yourself, or maybe you see it, but you can't cultivate it. Uh, what does that relationship look like? And how, how do you. How do you continue to build on that? By having tough conversations, easy conversations. Like, to me, this is why people, so many people don't reach the pinnacles because they don't have a mat o Keith in their corner. They don't have somebody that is going to be, um, maybe not brutally honest but radically candid with them, um, have the real tough conversations. Um, he said you talked him out of retirement at one point. How do you. How does somebody. How does somebody. Not Matt Frazier, how does somebody. Chad Sanscrine, how does he have that impact on somebody else? And what are the components that you think? Because it seems like you've perfected that. How do you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that my relationship with him, I think then allowed that sort of relationship with others to speed up because, I mean, again, it's trust based. Um, and his process was long and I think, you know, how did I technically approach that? You know, um, you know, I didn't, you know, I sort of supported what he wanted and needed and what his dreams and hopes were and everything. And that I think that when you really step back or step above something, it's uh, like, you know, it really just requires first, you know, more than anything that it isn't about me, you know, and by the way, like, you know, I think people can hear that and be like, yeah, no shit. Like, it's not about you in a situation where you're like, managing. I mean, you, you and I can, you know, we've probably talked about this before is like, there's ego and everything. I have an ego. Everybody has an ego is like, you know, and it's hard to not like, get credit or, you know, reward in those things. But I don't know why I've been wired like that or, you know, how I was brough up. But you know, what I, in. I learned this in business with my father is the results that, you know, maybe I'm seeking come from, um, not focusing on those results.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I think on the actions and behaviors. Yeah. So, you know, it's. It's actions over intentions and like, you know, all those cliche things that are actually really true. Right. But with, you know, how do you build that? It's, you know, um.

Speaker A: Because that's the recipe. It seems. Everybody wants, Everybody wants somebody in their corner rooting for them, directing them, coaching them, picking them up when they're down, you know, putting them back in their place when they're too high. Somebody wants that real connection. And so it seems like that's your superpower. It seems like your superpower. Everybody I talk to, and you now coach some of the best athletes in the game still. You are the president, the CEO of what is the Mecca of all things success. Um, that's your superpower. People want to know how, what is it? I'm dying to know what it is.

Speaker B: I mean, the fir. You know, you have to want and love for people to be successful, um, and have it mean nothing to you. I mean, that, that is, for me, a very important component, at least to how I was successful. Is that my piece of it. Um, you know, what I've learned is that comes a part of, you know, you know, being directed and passionate about somebody else that you're, you know, in a business relationship with or managing or helping or facilitating or coaching, but you really have to love, um, what you do, who you do with it, who, what you do and who you do with. Right. Um, you know, I just have a, a really strong passion, um, for people, you know, meeting their goals or achieving their dreams. I, I don't like, you know, maybe, maybe, like, there's a lot of innate stuff that I was taught through my, you know, my, my upbringing that contribute to that type of stuff. But I, you know, how do you build a formula to, to be the guy like you're describing? I am. I think you just have to, like, you have to, you have to be willing to show up, you know, and these are our core values here. And so I won't even, like, get super cliche with it, but, like, we, you have to show, and, and people will be like, yeah, I show up. I'm like, no. Like, when my phone rang at 2 o' clock in the morning and he was upset because somebody either said something incorrect on the Internet or like, you know, he was struggling with where he was at and, you know, the games were coming up. I picked the phone up, you know, and then I think it's just, you know, you know, I'm willing to do the work and I'm willing to be there at all costs for, as, you know, everybody around me at all times. And I think that sounds exhausting and not scalable. It is. You just care. There are people like, matt's not my business partner. Matt's my best friend, and, you know, the brother I didn't have. You know, Jason Hopper and Brook Wells are my little kids, you know, that you Know, I've helped raise those kids. I was representing Brooke at 18 years old and Jason out of college and you know, everybody in our system, um, I choose to take a personal path with, and I think, um, business is personal and for me, that work. So, you know, that is what then grounds me in the ability to be able to do what I think I'm best at, which is really caring at and uh, relentlessly pursuing other people's goals with them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so, so when you start talking about goals and you, you know, how do you help them achieve those goals? How you. You know, for a Matt Fraser, whose goal is to be the best in the world, Brooke Wells to be the best in the world, you know, Jason Hopper is arguably one of the fastest rising.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Like beasts.

Speaker B: He's there.

Speaker A: Absolute beast. Right? Yeah. Um, how do you. What's. What goes into your, your process? If you think about like great coaches, coach like Bill Walsh, coaches like Phil Jackson, Gene, uh, uh, uh, Popovich, um, they all had a formula. Nick Saban have a formula. What's the formula? That, that is, you know, uh, metakief.

Speaker B: There's a practical piece which all those people you described always dealt with on the front end, which is, are people good enough? Right. You know, recruiting or like, you know, trying out for positions, you know, so people have to, you know, essentially have the talent and, or show the work ethic, you know, and those are really good foundational pieces to be able to then assess off of. And I truly believe, you know, and I know this is a little pie in the sky. I believe the sky is the limit for anybody and everybody. Like, can I win the CrossFit Games? No, but that's on the practical front end of like, hey, can you do this or not? Can Brook Wells, Jason Hopper, Victor Hoffer, all these banners you see up here. Yes. Uh, and what separates each of them is something unique to them. And what I really enjoy is understanding each of them at a deep level so that we can help them then tap into what they need to, to improve the things that are holding them from being where they want to be.

Speaker A: How much of that is. How much of that is skill based versus mental?

Speaker B: I would argue that it is predominantly mental. It, uh, it's not 100%, but it's, it's in the high, you know, 70 to 80 fives. You know, uh, you look at what we do for a sport and it's such a physically demanding sport, but what. Which really draws people away from the mental side. But think about the mental side of like, you know, going dark and being in pain all the time and having to push your limits past where your mind wants it to go. I mean, it is, you know, I'm a big golfer. Like, I would put it up there as mental as golf, you know, so that's where a lot of the work goes. Like, when I, when I look at every one of these people that, and the people that you're naming, Matt included, the, the barrier that they broke to get where they wanted to on every step along the way was mental, you know, with Matt, it was, you know, you know, really, you know, diving into and buying into the process, which he had a really hard mental time mentally with. You know, he, he, you know, the idea of, like, having structure, being told what to do, like, all, like, there's all little nuances with each of them. Um, and there, I would tell you that games, athletes in general, especially at the top, like when you take the top 10 or 15 males and females, the, the difference between them, um, say on the podium and not is so razor thin. And it's mental. You know, there's, there's obviously going to be physical limitations in terms of, like, injuries or, like, you know, deficiencies. But I truly believe in what I've watched in here is that, that when somebody's deficient in something, the only limitation they have there is their mind, whether they can or not, and they're willing to put in the work to do, do it to get better at it. Jason Hopper's proved it. He's had some monumental gaps in his game that are strengths. Now Matt Fraser is the best. The biggest proof of that. He was a weightlifter that couldn't, you know, get his heart rate to 150 without feeling like he was gonna die. He is the fittest man in history now. So, I mean, that's literally. I mean, every sport is that mental, as you know. Right. And I think a lot of people see them as such a, you know, a, you know, a gifted physical application. They're not, they're not like, all those guys are very much level on talent. I mean, there's always generational talents that come through in those situations, but those guys are all very close. Is LeBron James that much more talented than, you know, the third starter on his team? No. There's a difference there, like time, experience. But he's more mentally buttoned up than maybe anybody that's ever played the sport. Right. So that's right.

Speaker A: He's done it longer. He's done it better than almost anybody.

Speaker B: I mean, Isn't that such a big part of it too? Is like, you know, part of the mental game that I think people don't pay enough attention to is your willingness to learn what, and what learning is, is failing. Right. Uh, so I'm will willing to then not make that mistake again by, you know, either, you know, addressing it through my training or work that I need to do to get better at something to not have that failure. But I mean, you know that, I mean that, that pro, like that learning process is so important in all this type of stuff, you know, so, so

Speaker A: what's the biggest mentor? I just wrote a book called Keep uh Telling Yourself.

Speaker B: Can't wait to read it.

Speaker A: It's all about the narratives we tell ourselves and the, and the uh, and power it has over your life. Like we're just, we just are nothing more than a collection of stories we tell ourselves. What do you think are the, the stories that those top athletes, those tip of the spear athletes are telling themselves comparative to the, the people that are struggling, people that aren't, or maybe not even, not even in a setting like this, but just in their everyday life. What's the different narratives?

Speaker B: Well, I think, yeah, it's, that's a very deep question truly, because I think again, it's very unique to each individual. Like, you know, I think that, I mean the, the difference is, is I believe that it's, it's vulnerability. I believe people that are high achievers are willing to be vulnerable and fail and, and look silly in the process. I mean, I can relate to this. It's like, you know, even in a CrossFit gym when I first came in, it's like, you know, I didn't want to do things that I was weak at. You know, I had to overcome that to be my best me and then be where I'm at today. You know, I can't not be willing to like, you know, try to do a pull up thinking, well, I'm gonna fail and somebody's gonna see me fail. I think that's the biggest society limitation that exists. That's like a, you know, you know, one common thread is that, you know, people don't want to look silly or fail.

Speaker A: The public failing.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, people don't want people to see that. And you know, um, guys like. And by the way, that's one of the hurdles Matt overcame. You know, he really struggled with that early in his career. Um, and you know, the minute he was able to overcome that was the minute he became the most dominant player in a sport. History, Right? So it's, it's, um. I think that is probably the most common thread we all have within us is fear, you know, and, you know, and willingness to sort of, you know, put yourself out and fail so that you can move forward, learn and grow.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think the crazy thing is most people aren't afraid of failing, they're afraid of failing publicly. When I fail in private, like, nobody knows. I don't beat myself up about it at all, right? I'm doing a workout and I can't do a pull up. Like, I don't feel bad in the moment because nobody sees it, but the minute I'm next to Mat Fraser and I can't do a pull up, I feel like, uh, I'm like, oh my God. He looks at the guy, it's looking at me like I can't even do a pull up. So this idea, how do you get people to fail publicly? How do you get them? How do you get a Brook Wells? I guess they're already into it, but how do you get a non Brook Wells? Let's talk about a non Matt Fraser. Non Brook Wells. How do you just get an everyday person to lean into publicly failing?

Speaker B: I, and I'll tell. I can give you how I learned this and I learned it in a CrossFit gym, you know, and it was, you know, either that or I would have got spit out, you know, how do you get people to learn that? I think it's community. I think it's, you know, being around, you know, people that can help you with that, facilitate that, like minded people that, you know, have overcome that. I came to a CrossFit gym with fear, doubt, insecurity, like all the package, you know, like I, I would, you know, didn't want to look silly. I was a college athlete, played Division 1 sports. I'm like, you know, failing to me in front of like, you know, a crowd of people in a workout was like scary to me. Right? But what, you know, you watch, uh, we did a workout today. Like, you know, there was toes to bar on that workout. I did V ups. I can do toes to bar. I can do a lot of them. You know, there's my ego already, but it's like, literally I don't care. It's like, I just want to get a good workout in. And what I learned is by the, you know, in the community, in the fitness community and specifically in a CrossFit gym that I joined, that that was all you needed to do on a daily basis, you know, and it Taught me to overcome that stuff. And when I failed, somebody would come over and help me. I mean, you just, you know, it's people, honestly, it's getting around the right people. Yeah. Uh, you know, and getting in the right environment. And by the way, all I said there is putting myself out. Uh, you know, you. And, you know, this, you. You've run a million marathons now. Yeah. The hardest one was the first one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it's like, you know, that's where you're just a bottled up bundle of tangled knots of fear, doubt and insecurity. And when you take that step, you learn. I can do anything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and I learned that in a gym. You know, even though I had like so many experiences along the way, I had to, you know, I had a sad athletic experience in college, but I produced that because I didn't put in the work. And so, uh, you know, think about all of that burden on me now. I'm going into this, like, next phase of my life and I've failed, you know, and, you know, do I learn from it or not? And I, it created a lot of doubt and insecurity, but I evolved a lot and I grew up a lot in the CrossFit community.

Speaker A: Yeah, I've learned that a ton. Because when I was so against CrossFit, you know, I have a president of my company, Morgan, who runs all of my companies who are in. Her husband own a huge CrossFit gym where we live. And she would say, chad, stop running. You know, don't stop running, but like, add. Add weightlifting. And I'm like, I'm not doing that CrossFit thing. Can I try it for a couple days? And I'm like, that's not me. I'm a runner. Um, and it was really more of that public bailing that because I, I felt so confident in the running. And I was going to step in front of a room full of people that were gonna. That was gonna make a fool of myself in. And then when I went to that first class, as I did private lessons, so I said, I'll do private lessons. And the only reason I want to do private lessons because then I wouldn't fail publicly.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And, uh, then I started going to classes. And the classes are ten times better than any private lesson I've ever been to because the community and what I realized, even today, you know, I'm working out next to Matt Frazier. He's doing toe to bars. I'm doing like, like some sort of like, assisted, like knee raise. Like, it Was nothing like, totally doing you. I'm doing me. And at no point was I worried about Matt Frazier looking over, going, this dude can't even do a total bar. And at the end of the workout, he's like, man, he gave me a, like a high five or a fist. And he was like, man, way not to give up, way to keep going. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, there was no ridicule. There was no like. And this is, uh, the world's fittest man working next to, working out next to me. And it makes you feel seen, heard, and valued that, hey, it's not about, it's not about me competing with you. It's about you competing with you.

Speaker B: Think about that too. Like, you know, running. You've been in the running community. You know, you go run a marathon by yourself and you feel really shitty after 20 miles. Yeah, uh, it's a little, it's, it's a lot easier to be like, I'll get the next one.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's definitely.

Speaker B: There is the beauty of, like, community group fitness. Matt, um, honestly, he, like, absolutely adores helping people build love and, you know, routine around this, you know, fitness training in their lifestyle, because he knows how much it's helped him. And that's not like, you know, earn financial freedom, win world championships. You know, his dad's had two open heart surgeries and this has saved his life. His mom does, you know, flagship one of our programs on a daily basis. He has a hundred pound, A neighbor that lost £100, that he worked him out in his basement when he was the fittest man on earth. And he knows how hard it is because he just did the workout. And quite frankly, I did the workout with you. I'd have quit that workout, uh, if I was doing that by myself in the garage at the pace we were going at. Because it hurt this morning. Yeah, it hurt.

Speaker A: I was like, is anybody else dying here?

Speaker B: And that's.

Speaker A: But then. But that feeling of like, I'm supported gives you an extra, gives you an extra push. It gives you an extra gear that you might not have had.

Speaker B: He texted me last night, like, we have worked out more together in the last year than I think we had all the years prior. Because, you know, we're just more relatable in terms of how we apply our fitness now. But, you know, it's the, it's the daily medicine. It's like, you know, I need someone beside me too, to really get myself pushed, you know, hold me accountable. I've done a good job. Learning how to be accountable to myself. Trust me on that. But there's definitely days and people will relate to this where I'm in my garage doing a workout. I have a garage gym, and I quit it because it sucks, it hurts, it's cold. I got all the excuses. You know, when I grab a buddy, there's no chance that's happening. No chance, Zero chance. And he texted me last night. He's like, man, I need to work out. And I was like, let's do it together. He's like, you know, he. And he said after, he's like, I, uh, I would have never done that in my basement last night, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, the miracle isn't that people finish. The miracle is that people ever even start, isn't it? You know, I mean, like, people are like, I can't believe you finished the marathon. I'm like, there's. There is no miracle in me finishing a marathon or finishing a 50 mile or finish an Ironman. The miracle is that I get to the start line because everything and everything in you, uh, wants to tell you, you don't need it. Don't do it. It's not a big deal. And that keeps people from even putting themselves to the start line. But once I get to the start line, and this is not. This is a metaphor for life, not just running, if I start something, if I have the courage to start it, I'm gonna have the discipline to finish it. It. The problem is most people don't have the courage to start it.

Speaker B: Could not agree more. You and I have talked a bit about marathon. I have done a few, you know, I've done Boston three times. And I think you said something to me when we were having dinner one night about how you would, you know, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons when you started, all for ego, you know? And, um, yeah, I mean, I totally related to that. You know, when you were describing that and it's, you know, um, it felt empty.

Speaker A: It felt. It didn't. Like, when you do something, you do the right thing for the wrong reason. The feeling you get is, um, like, I got that medal the first time, and, yeah, I felt really good. And I wore the medal around like I was Flavor Flav for the whole week. I'm like, I wore it to church. I, uh, wore it. I'm not taking this shit off, right? Because it was all about this need to be seen as. And letting people know that, ah, at 40 years old or 42 years old, whatever I was, I ran a marathon But. But I didn't get any better in the process, and I didn't. It didn't change my life. It just gave me more ego.

Speaker B: You got healthier. Well, you know, what you enjoyed is the journey, the process, and that. That's, you know, it takes a while. You. You'll relate to this. It takes a long. That is. I've said cliche now three times. It is probably the most cliche thing, you know, buying into the process. And I say it that way because I don't think people really understand that what I really enjoy about life now, the, you know, four months I trained for Boston, not running Boston. That's exact same here, you know, And I. I, you know, on paper, failed Boston. I tore my calf. I finished. Didn't achieve the time that I set out to, but I was fulfilled because I did it. I got to the start line, and I was ready to run the time that I wanted to. I know I was. I just got hurt, you know, so it's. It's, um. It's the same here in business. And, man, every day I get to show up. And there are thousands of people around the world that rely on us for that. You know, is. Is the process. And it's. You know, people need targets. We all need goals. We all need things to, like, look at, to get to so that it inspires our training. Um, but I've never been more in a position in my entire life where I just want to wake up every day and, like, feel good, get in a nice barrel, like, do a workout, uh, be around good people, help grow our business together, help more people globally. And there's no real, like, target or, like, Super Bowl. I'm chasing with that. Um, it's. It's. It's actually kind of fun, honestly, for the, you know, and I. And I don't know that that would be, like, any sort of, like, written structure that people would distribute as a formula for success. I just, you know, the process. And you. You're. I mean, you've done 50 marathons. You relate to the process.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, I love it. I. I mean, like, I love today because I know I got better today training in this morning, and, like, I want to see how much better I am the next day. I do the same thing or like, a week from now.

Speaker A: I just love that it's the same. I felt the same way. I felt, you know, the training for London. I did London this year was the best training I'd ever done in my life. I ate healthy, I hit the workouts. I hit the times I got a great, amazing coach. Mario. Um, and like I felt it was so good seeing the improvements on the, on those 4am runs and seeing my split time when I got to the marathon. The marathon was just like a, it was like a victory lap. Had nothing. The marathon was over in 3 hours and 20 minutes. The training, the training was 8 months, 9 months of nothing but like 4ams and, and tough decisions and I got better. It didn't matter what happened at the marathon. Now I, I was sh. Certainly shooting for a time. But I believe in divorcing the outcome, fall in love with the process. And this idea of the process made me better. And I think that achievement without betterment is solely for the ego. So if I achieve something, if I, you know, somebody could go out and run a marathon today. And that's what I did on the first marathon. I didn't train, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't change anything about me. I just showed up And I ran 26 miles and it was miserable and it took me six hours, but I had a medal. So I achieved something, but I wasn't better. And it's solely for the ego. When you have betterment, when you have betterment first, you achieve so much more and the achievement doesn't even seem as important anymore.

Speaker B: You setting yourself up for failure the other way too. I mean, I've many times taken that path and not been able to succeed. You're physically limited or you're not prepared. Uh, I relate a lot to that. Yeah. I mean the process is. I, uh, mean, I guess for anybody that, that you know, would look at that and sort of snark at it because maybe I did when I was a 25 year old kid. It's, it's uh. Yeah, I uh, think we would both say you're gonna learn really at some point in your life that if you're not willing to look at that and buy into that and enjoy that somehow, or find a way to enjoy it, success is harder. I mean, unless you're just some brainiac, super talented that, you know, doesn't have, you know, has a lot of things better physically and mentally than I do. I mean, I mean without that I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be anywhere.

Speaker A: Yeah. At some point everybody's. I, uh, think there's a proverb that says, um, be humble or you're about ready to be right and at some point you're going to be humbled.

Speaker B: That's the truth.

Speaker A: Real fast, like really, really Fast. So in your, in this, in this super. Do you, do you see your superpower as connection?

Speaker B: I do, I really do. Connection people, you know. Yeah, 100%. I um, I get out of the bed, I get out of bed in the morning, charged up to you know, be on zooms all day and be interacting with people, be in person as much as possible and help people be their best. Uh, and I just have a unique role that allows me to do that more than most. Um, but 100%, yeah, I think it's you know, connection and communication and people.

Speaker A: What role does faith play in that?

Speaker B: Faith?

Speaker A: Faith?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really good question. I was, I was born, grew up Catholic. You know, I went to a Catholic high um, school and I went to all boys school and I went to Catholic University. And you know I struggled with faith. Um, I'm in a pretty good place overall with it now. Not necessarily I'm doing it my way, uh, which sometimes can be a trap and a bad approach. But you know, I believe um, in a lot of things that you know, the Catholic faith teaches. Ah, I've just really struggled with the organization at times, you know, personally, which is, you know I think was like a. I look back at it now and I'm m. You know, I wish I was more mature and processed it better earlier. Um, because you know, I think it's just people need to have faith, they need to believe in things. Um, you know, they need to, you know, we all need to think that we have somebody else helping us on a day to day basis that's sort of ever present from my perspective. What I think my faith has improved off of is I've been able to travel the world the last 10 years and be you know, connected to at one point or another virtually to every faith that exists. You know, I've been a ton of time in the Middle east and you know, uh, I've been literally to every continent and it's just such a diverse world and you know, there's so many common thread threads with all of our faiths by the way, which I think people don't realize. And um, I just see how much it helps so many people globally that you know I got re. Honestly I got reinterested at more re. You know, like more passionately on a trip to Saudi Arabia. I'm Catholic, you know, you're talking about a totally different, what people would think is a polar opposite faith. There's so many common threads and um, I just was with some people that really use uh, that as A powerful tool with being their best. And. And, you know, I mean, they were encouraging me to maybe think about what. That, you know, what their faith looked like. But it just reinvigorated me around my faith, honestly. And I want my kids to grow up and believe. And, um, so I'm not, like, into all the traditions, but I talk to God, you know, occasionally, and, you know, I believe that that person listens.

Speaker A: And the thing is, what's interesting about when you say. When you talk about faith and, you know, or. And not. Not even forget religion, just faith, faith. Faith in something. Faith and belief in something. And if people have faith and belief in themselves, that'd be enough. That would be a great start right there. Just faith and belief. That's a big step, though, isn't it, that you just. Yes, because I don't think you can believe in something else if you don't believe in yourself. I can't have faith in God. I have a great relationship with God. But in order to make that relationship with God as good as it possibly can be, it has to start with me having faith and belief in myself. Because if I don't have faith in myself, then there's no way I can believe in a God. And so how do you get people? How do you get those amazing athletes? How do you get your daughter? How do you get your son to have faith in themselves?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's something I'm incredibly proud of at home. Um, because, you know, I think it's. If, you know, taking my experience as a child and, you know, and I was raised really well and thinking of ways I can improve upon that. And, you know, I think that I grew up in a generation of, you know, motivation, um, was at times, tough love. And, you know, people can, you know, like, your. My father saw things in me and he pushed me to pursue them because he wanted me to realize my full potential. And that can, you know, that created an interesting relationship at time. I could not be more grateful that that's the way I was, um, raised, you know, in my life. But, you know, I think I can take, you know, good ingredients from how he did that with me and do a little bit of a better job and build confidence and belief. And it's. It's not like. I think some people would look at that as soft at times. And it's not like, you know, it's just encouraging, you know, kids to. To take my experience, my kids to take my experience and build off of it and learn from it and hopefully not make the same Mistakes, you know, and it's. It's, uh, where does faith play in and all that? I have never taken a moment to say, you have to with faith. My kids have organically, uh, people of faith through their experiences. I never made them go to church. I never, you know, we put them in ccd. And, you know, if they complained, honestly, I'd have been the parent that have been like, yeah, you're good. Like, you don't need to do this. And that's never been the case. And I think they found community there, like they're a part of. They both grew up and went to Catholic private schools, which are fantastic communities that encourage people. You know, they. They help people overcome all these things where we're talking about fear, doubt, insecurity.

Speaker A: Now, your daughter's of Alabama, which is heavily faith based.

Speaker B: It is. And she's. She's thriving. And, um, you know, I learned a lot about, like, I'm. And I know, you know, this about me. I'm 13 or 14 years sober. And, you know, that was sort of, you know, I needed to stop drinking. Um, and I think that was a point at which my faith was challenged. Ah. At its most. And I see where God plays into my life because of the miracle that I am today. And it was the only person I could talk to for a long period of time that I think would listen because I was just in a bad, dark place. And my kids got to watch me go through some of that, you know, and they got to watch me, you know, fight, you know, believe, you know, have faith that, you know, I could do this. There was a higher power that would help me with that without, you know, with doing it my way. And that's. I guess. I guess that's the only way I've encouraged it with them is like, you know, way.

Speaker A: It.

Speaker B: It sounds stubborn to do things your way, but, um, I want them to be independent when it comes to things like faith.

Speaker A: And you only. You only get everybody's doing this life for the first time. You only get one life. It's not no dress rehearsals.

Speaker B: I mean, isn't it your way? Isn't it like the. The number one thing we all say on a constant basis? I find myself even more today. It's like, you know, if I only knew then what I know today.

Speaker A: You know, it's hindsight is sue.

Speaker B: And as a parent, how hard is it to not say, like, here, you know, don't do that. Like people. The kids got to experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, we got to be the. We have to be the Safety net, not the parachute. We got to make sure they don't hit rock bottom, but we can't hold them up either. We gotta let them fall at their, at their pace.

Speaker B: It's hard.

Speaker A: Really, really hard. It's interesting. If you were a woman, if you were a woman, I would ask you this question. If you were a mother, I would ask you the question of how do you do it? How do you travel so much and how do you and still have relationship with your kids? It's such a. So it's like nobody ever asked the father that question. But I'm going to ask you that question as a father, as somebody who travels even more than I do. Um, you're always on the road. You're always doing something somewhere. How do you still balance fatherhood in that?

Speaker B: Well, I truly believe that what I do makes me my happiest. And then it makes me my best at home. And I mean, I can objectively measure my relationships before and after. You know, sort of. I've started to, you know, heavily be in hot pursuit of what I'm doing now, and my relationships have just thrived. You know, my kids are proud of me. They see that I work hard. Yeah, you know, you can relate to this. It hurts often, which is homesick, you know.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: I love being home, um, you know, as much as I love being, you know, in front of people and helping people be, uh, their best, you know, and, and really getting to do what I do on a daily basis. But, um, you know what, they understand it and they're grateful for me, for who I am, honestly. Like, they've just accepted it in me. Like, there were times where I was imbalanced and, you know, my wife has just been a really good, you know, general for me just to be like, hey, dude, you're a little off right now. Like, you got to spend a little more time here or like, your kids need you. There's a big game coming up. Like, I know you said you were going to go to Dubai for this. Like, like you need to stay home. And so I've had, you know, I have good people around me that have helped me with that.

Speaker A: Um, haven't gotten to spend time with your wife, who's a rockstar lawyer, has her own career. I'm saying you really, you struck gold there.

Speaker B: Isn't it, isn't it like, you know, the, the whole, like, balance feature is like, I don't even, I don't even know how to describe that. I don't have any of it. You don't have any of it. But, like, you know, what is balance for me is. Is. Is, you know, Happiness.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of people think balance is equal. Balance isn't equal. I can. I can. I can be balanced on one foot. Doesn't mean I'm equal. And so it's. Balance means being where your feet are and, you know, just being present in that space. When I'm with my daughters, I'm with my daughters. And you've seen. We've been together at Alabama games, we've been together at dinner. Um, we've been together here. And so it's where I am is where what's most important at that very moment, this is where I have to be. Because to your point, when I'm my happiest, I can be the father I want to be. When I'm at my happiest and doing what fulfills me, what God put me on this earth for, I can then show up proud and fulfilled of what I'm doing with my children.

Speaker B: Yeah, that you just. You nail it on the head. Like, I think. I think that. And you've experienced this through kids leaving to go to school. You, uh, know, I always lamenting my daughter leaving. You know what, Our relationship was solid before, but, you know, you're. What you're describing is, she is the happiest I've ever seen her. Our relationship's never been any better. It's just proof to me that that's the formula for success. It's not necessarily, you know, in the same place at all times. You know, the connection is, you know, people being, you know, very fulfilled and happy. My son and, um, you know, you know, my relationship with my son has improved because of that. You know, you just have more perspective. But, yeah, I don't. I've. I've struggled most with that in my career. You know, is. Is. Is, um. Am I doing the right thing? But I think the fact that I'm willing to ask myself that question on a daily basis means that, you know, I'm always going to have, um, sort of a. A barometer for, you know, whether I am or not. And I have people around me to help me with that. But, like, you know, I don't. I am aware of it, um, for sure. And, you know, but I wouldn't change anything, honestly. Like, I think people might think that's crazy. Like, I'm away. Like, you are, like, 100.

Speaker A: Yeah. 50.

Speaker B: Like, I wouldn't change it because, you know, we have a great life, and my kids love me and I love them. And we have, you know, everybody's really happy around me, and they're super happy and thriving. So something went right along the way.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly right. I wouldn't change. I wouldn't change anything. There are days that you're in the. In the thick of it, and you're like, oh, man, it really would be nice to be sleeping in my own bed tonight. Not. Not a Marriott for the 180th night. Um, but I wouldn't change any of it because you don't get to rip out one chapter of the book and have the same ending. And so, like, you do have one chapter, the whole story changes. And I'm. I love my story. I love the struggles, the pitfalls, the highs, the lows. I love the. The good, good decisions. I love the bad decisions. You know, you walk down my office hallway, and there's a. Three pictures on the wall in our office building, going down to my office, and it's. The first picture is me as a kid, Very, very, uh, sulky, very miserable, like, in my baseball uniform, just hating life. And there's a plaque under it and says who I was. And then you walk a couple feet down, it's me crossing the finish line of one of my marathons. Full smile, ear to ear, chest puffed out. Um, really, like, really loving who I saw in the mirror and who I seen that picture and understands who I am. And then you walk a couple weeks further down, there's a picture of my shadow of me running one early morning, and it says who I'm becoming. And, uh, I have. Have the same amount of love for every single version of those. And so you can't rip out what made those versions of you and still love those versions of you. So to me, it's about having gratitude for the whole part of you, not just some of you.

Speaker B: Makes the journey fun along the way, doesn't it?

Speaker A: No questions. I got two more questions for you. Uh, and then what's great is I get to spend all weekend hanging out with you in, um, Alabama this weekend.

Speaker B: Yes, sir.

Speaker A: And I'm wondering, are we doing a workout with, um, Jason Hopper on Saturday in Tuscaloosa?

Speaker B: I mean, I think that that, that can easily be arranged. Let's, let's. Let's work that out. I don't know what time the game's at. I should probably.

Speaker A: 2:30. Oh, yeah, we definitely got an early morning workout then.

Speaker B: Right, done.

Speaker A: Jason Hopper, me, you.

Speaker B: He's going to be a little less understanding of you, and I Doing V ups. He's in the thick of it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, I mean, he is. Can I take him for a 10 mile run first? You.

Speaker B: He'd go and he'd, you know, he'd probably, he'd enter it as if he was the world champion of a 10 mile run run, you know, which is exactly what you need to be that successful.

Speaker A: So that's what I love about him. That's what I want.

Speaker B: I'm excited for you to meet him. He's a special guy.

Speaker A: Yeah. Tuscaloosa, we're coming for you. CrossFit. Tuscaloosa, we're coming.

Speaker B: He played football at Clemson.

Speaker A: Oh, this is even better. This is getting.

Speaker B: Yeah, he was a receiver.

Speaker A: I'm hit him up with the, I'm going to hit him up with a, um, with the Alabama shirt.

Speaker B: He asked me when, when, when I, my daughter got in and I was down at the Georgia game. I got a text from him and he said, can I go to the Iron Bowl? And I was like, well, yeah, yeah. He's like, my dream has all. Like, I have a list of games that, like four or five games that I want to and need to white out. He's like, that one's up there.

Speaker A: He's like, oh, it's gonna be a big game. So. All right, two last questions. Uh, 50, 60 years from this net, from, from today, when you leave this earth, uh, what do you want your contribution to have been in?

Speaker B: I want, I want. Well, first and foremost, I want to be remembered as a great family man and dad. Um, um, you know, and, and it's funny, people will listen to that and hear. I heard a clip from Dana White recently that was so eloquent around that and so genuine and it just resonated with me and it's how I feel like I, I, I don't, you know, I care, but like, I don't focus on anything more. If, if that at the end of the day was all I was, was, you know, my kids thought I was, was just a cool and a great dad and my wife, you know, had a great time and I was a great husband, you know, through our process together. Then, then I won.

Speaker A: That's pretty good.

Speaker B: Yeah, like, you know, for me, you know, and, and I think the same goes for what I do on a daily basis in business is, you know, I just want people to, you know, think I was a really good guy and I contributed to their success, you know. Um, and, and I think it's equally as important both, you know, I don't Um. I don't want to go about that any other way but the right way, you know, And I want, um, me, because I deserve that respect, you know, and so I. I just, you know, I want. When I'm gone. And I think, you know, it's funny. I think we all probably think of these things. It's like, you know, you used to play basketball in the driveway and make the shot to win the NBA championship. Now I think about, what's it like when I die? You know, like, that's the evolution. And I. You know, that that's, um.

Speaker A: As you start to get older, you know, there's two types of virtues in the world. There's a career virtues, and that's what you'll say about your retirement party. And then there's eulogy virtues, and that's what they'll say about you. Your funeral. And as you get older, the career virtues mean less. The eulogy virtues mean more.

Speaker B: Totally. You know, and I. Yeah, I totally agree. But I mean, my career virtues, I hope, are really tied to that, to the other side.

Speaker A: You know, when those two intertwine, uh, is where I think you have fulfillment in life. And for me, I'm blessed to say that my career virtues and my eulogy virtues are very intertwined, and I'll be known for both. All right, last, um, question. Uh, tonight, after, you know, after spending time with you and breaking bread with you and being with you and having you in my circle, which I'm extremely grateful for.

Speaker B: As am I.

Speaker A: Yes. I'm going to pray for you tonight. What should I pray for?

Speaker B: Celtics. NBA championship. No, I'm kidding.

Speaker A: Yes. That is on my bucket list, by the way, is a Celtics game.

Speaker B: We're done. We're done.

Speaker A: I'm just letting you know that a Celtics game at the Garden.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Is on my. Is on my. Is on my bucket list.

Speaker B: We can get that done. Um, yeah. You know what I would want anybody to think of me and, you know, from a prayer or a thought perspective on a daily basis, is that I just continue to have the strength to. To be my best for everybody around me. Like, I literally, if have any sort of doubt or, like, moments, you know, when you wake up, you're a little tired or anything, it's like, you know, can I, you know, that often, you know, I always prove that I can by just taking that first step forward and starting like you described. But, you know, I want. I always just. I just always want to have the strength and confidence to be, you know, present for the people around me.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that we, uh, didn't spend a ton of time talking about hard work pays off because I think hard work pays off as an amazing brand. It's an amazing company. But if you want to know the character of a company, look at the character of the person running the company.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: And I really want people to be able to see behind, behind the rig, uh, and behind the curtain of uh, who Mad o' Keefe is one of the most selfless, amazing human beings I've ever met. Thankfully, uh, able to call him a friend, check him out on social media, connect with them. Um, sign up for you doing this amazing 100 day challenges right now. Free the public.

Speaker B: Very cool.

Speaker A: Like 12,000 people come in and sign up for the community of just crushing the last hundred days of the year.

Speaker B: Very cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Join us. Us jump in. We refer anyone but hard work pays off.

Speaker A: Hard work pays off. Check it out. Matt o'. Keefe. Thanks, brother.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Appreciate you. Good to see.