From Brink Of Collapse To £18 Million Growth

Adam: Everybody thinks that one thing that's gonna kill your business is the market, a competitor, or the economy, which may or may not be true, of course. especially the economy. but it's not. It's actually you.

And my guest today took a company that was on its knees and built it to owe to almost 18 million pounds in sales. Now What's really interesting, the founder went away for two years and the business kept on growing. and what that was really interesting, and that's really fascinated about today's topic. the question I have to ask you guys that are listening in, by the way, is are you building a business or are you building a job that you can never quit?

So my guest today is the amazing John Castro. now me and John have been friends for a few years now. it's actually taken me many months, by the way, to get him on the show, just for full disclosure. and what I love about John is that not only is he got not only does he live in the trenches, he's got some really good, compelling stories, built a you know, built up a dying business effectively to eight the 18 million pounds worth of sales, which is which is an amazing result, by the way.

And he's put in frameworks to help do that. now today's specific episode is gonna really I'm gonna be challenging John on his decision making, on his thought processes. he's gonna be giving us some great frameworks but and we're also gonna be talking a little bit about the how you deal with the emotional roller coaster of actually growing and scaling and exiting a business. So without further ado, John, welcome to the show.

John Castro: Thank you. I mean that is a a wonderful intro, mate. I appreciate it. Adam: Well, I appreciate the compliment.

It's very good. Yeah, it's been do you what? I actually look back at this, I think it's taking us almost seven months from initial discussions, or it might have even been twelve months, from when your when your agent actually reached out to me. So, but we're here now, it's all good.

John Castro: Yeah, yeah. So let's get it going, man. Ready to give you whatever you need for me, my man. Adam: Very good, very good.

So for you guys that are listening in, by the way, as I always say to you, make sure you get your book and pen handy. If you're at the gym or listening, you're out walking the dog, make sure you pause this episode, okay? You're probably gonna listen to it all the way through anyway, but make sure that you go back and rewind because there will be some really big golden bombs in this one. So let's jump in.

Listen, John, I know that it was, well, it's almost six years ago, depending on when you're listening to this, of course. Back in 2020, you walked into a business as it was basically falling apart. Now I would have said that most people, most b most business leaders specifically, would have probably just walked away and said, you know what, out of my debt, not my problem, whatever it might be, right? But why did you, what did you see?

What what was the opportunity? What did you actually see that you thought, you know what, I can actually save this? what was the first thing that you you looked at? John Castro: Yeah, sure.

Let me give you a little bit backstory to that. So essentially, I went into a company, that same company in twenty seventeen to build out their sales team and eventually became their GM, which was awesome. And I started running the business for them. And then what happened is we were an events company, right?

We were running events across the world. So what happened in twenty twenty was we couldn't run an events business. So overnight, literally, I'm standing there March twenty twenty with the team. We had about twenty five people in the UK, about Adam: Hm, t'es là.

Mm-hmm. Course. John Castro: no at that point probably about 20 in the UK just under and just said we'll be back in a couple of weeks and then suddenly we were never back so yeah we we literally couldn't do anything so we had to transition very quickly and sat with the two original founders of the business and and they just wanted to give up. They wanted to like they're like we've done this so many times like we just we're they were wealthy enough at the time they were they they they created a an abundance of wealth for themselves and their family so they didn't really need the business Adam: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. John Castro: Anymore, and they didn't know whether they wanted to go through it. So essentially I convinced them to, you know, take a cut, take leadership, and then we turned it around. And then the next four years, we did about 17.

9 million in sales over those four years. We expanded into Germany, Scandinavia, and we turned ourselves into a digital business, essentially, around investing and trading in the stock market and crypto market. But what what I saw essentially, just to answer that question, was the foundation was there. It was just How do we now make that transition?

And then how do we actually make this so the business can actually operate and scale at the way the way we wanted it to? and and and and I just felt we can't give up on something that was really helping individuals create financial freedom. That was what we were doing, traveling the world, teaching trading and investing, how to manage your own money, wealth creation essentially. Why would we stop that?

and I know that the founders were at that point of fed upness and I just didn't I I just knew there was something there. Adam: Mm. Mm. John Castro: The main thing I knew is that the foundation was there.

We had an offer. We had a product. We had a service that we just needed to transition. So I was like, let let's go for it.

And then in the first year of going for it, we went from two point six to four point seven million and then the rest is history, essentially. from them. Yeah, man. Adam: Amazing.

Love that. What was the I mean, you you talked about the fact that, you know, at that first initial conversation you had with the two founders and you had convinced them that actually you've got some legs and a biscuit business or whatever it is. Like what was well tell us a little bit more about that conversation because I'd be interested in to learn about that. I mean, obviously, you know, if don't say stuff that you can't obviously share or whatever it is, but I'm interested to learn more about that conversation because it's interesting.

John Castro: Mm. Yeah. Adam: I mean, I've had lots of conversations with founders that are looking to exit and whatever it is. And they just want to like, you know, they just want to throw it away.

But actually that there's so much more value that they can mine, you know, from the business itself, yet they don't see it because they need a different perspective. So tell us walk us through how did you convince these these these f co founders? What was it what what was the kind of like I don't know, catalyst if you want to call it that? What was the kind of hook on bait?

For them to turn around and say, Do you know what, John? Maybe you're right. John Castro: Yeah. Yeah, I th I I think you'll be surprised by it actually.

I told them that I would only get paid from the process if it was successful. So we put a financial agreement in place that allowed me that allowed them to take the risk without taking financial risk. So what was the worst case scenario? I wasn't going to get paid unless I won the game of trying of of saving it.

And although we had payroll and everything like that, we had enough, more than enough in the bank to fund the business for at least a year if we needed to. Now that wasn't what we wanted to do. We we we we wanted it to transition in 90 days, which is a still a short period of time. But to be to sit in a room eventually and go, right, okay, well, let's do this, to make it lit as risk-free as possible.

Don't even give me a cent of money unless we cause a result. So there was a staggered plan financially that we had to that we had to reach for me to even get paid, right? So I came in, as you might that famous word of an entrepreneur, but essentially I took I took it just as much risk as them. Well, not just as much, I took enough risk for them to go, okay, let's let this guy take over and see what he can do.

And then, like I said, in 12 months, pretty much added two million pounds to the business very quickly. So they saw it worked, essentially. But that was the the thing that took them over the edge. It took, no joke, probably three to four weeks to negotiate that.

It didn't wasn't easy because they were essentially giving away something that they'd been mu running and taking money out of for 15 years. They were giving away some of it, right? Adam: Mm. Mm-hmm.

John Castro: or they were giving away some control and all this thing that founders have. and to convince them enough to go, look, I've already done this with the sales team, we've already transitioned the I've already done this for you. They saw my my track record and was like, Let's go. And then every ninety days we reviewed and I just kept achieving and achieving and achieving.

And, you know, we all three of us created some great wealth from that process. It was really cool. Adam: I love that. It's a it's it's it's a really interesting story.

What is it that you and and and talk to me a little bit about that shared risk element? Because that that's fascinating to me. But did you come up with that idea and say, Hey, so you could just pay me my salary and we all just walk away and that's it? But how did you come to the conclusion and why did you I suppose why did you come up with this idea of saying, Okay, do you know what?

Let's have some skin in the game here. Obviously I'm I'm assuming that it was kind of some sort of consult to equity type type of deal. but how how did that work? Like w what was what was kind of like the the hook and c hook and carrot?

Tell me about that. John Castro: Well look, I've always been a salesperson. So I've never really relied on salary. So I came from that mentality anyway.

I've had businesses before going into theirs and helping them scale theirs. So not as successful as what I did with them, which was, you know, a a very different story. But I've always been entrepreneurial. So I I've never really worried about making money because of the main skill set that I have is being able to sell stuff.

Now Adam: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes. John Castro: Selling's evolved, marketing's evolved over the years, you know, in the last six years, it's just we've been like this trust economy, which we can maybe go into later.

But, you know, I I can sell stuff. So my worst case scenario is pick up the phone and you know, sell marketing services if I have to, whatever it is, right? So it didn't, it didn't it didn't phase me as much as it would probably phase others, just because I'd always been bonus or c or cap commission mentality. That's the mentality I had.

However, what I would say is when Adam: Ha ha ha. Yeah. John Castro: When doing it, yeah, of course there was a bit of nervousness because I was literally like saying, Okay, I'm coming in just like you. No one we're not gonna and no one none of us are gonna take any money out of this business unless it's successful, unless we reach these numbers.

So, but that's where it came from. And then actually, you know, I I I tapped into a mentor of mine that I have been, you know, friends with, but also a very close mentor that I've had for probably about 10 years at that time, always touch and go and always when I had something, I always used to WhatsApp him or whatever. He helped me structure the agreement behind the scenes, if I'm honest. He helped me negotiate it and go, right, they've come back with this.

This is what I would do. You know, so I found people to help me go and help other people. Does that make sense? So I had my mentor here saying, okay, this is how I would structure this deal.

if you're gonna take he and actually, frankly speaking, what I did initially was not even an equity share. The reason I didn't do that, and a lot of business owners will probably understand, especially small business owners, they just had a lot. Adam: Mm. Absolutely.

John Castro: Let's just say they were running their life through their business, which we can go into later, because if you ever want to sell or scale, you've got to stop doing that. You haven't got a business if you're putting your entire life through the PL. If your cleaner is through the PL, like stop it, right? It's not a business.

So at that point, they weren't at the stage where they were gonna make that transition. That eventually happened two years later and the PL became pure business PL. But the first two years I took a revenue share and I took Adam: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ha ha ha. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. John Castro: share of what money came into the business, not actually an equity or anything like that.

Just because and that's another thing back to what actually convinced them. Cause they equity is not easy to to get from business owners. And I and actually I would advise a lot of UK business owners or any business owner, sorry, the small business under five million to can to really consider other ways to incentivize people to help you scale than equity because, you know, it is still that's that's wealth creation. So I understood that.

Right. And I and I had Adam: Got it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. John Castro: Firstly, one thing I say what really helped the deal is the compassion and empathy that, okay, you don't want to do equity. No worries. Let's do this.

And then, you know, tapping into my mentor and then going behind the scenes, talking to him, him helping me negotiate it, goes, right, let's ask for this percentage of it. And then I just went back and forth for three, four weeks. And eventually we came to a number that we all agreed on. And yeah, it was it was a good number.

And as we scaled, and obviously we made more money, I made more money, right? And they made more money. And it was just great. And they didn't have to give away anything in the beginning, none of that.

So it was really Really, really great agreement. Adam: Yeah, so you know, it's really interesting. I I loved the fact that you talked a little bit about revenue share and interesting point about some of our listeners and them being so scared about given equity. But I guess you know, I think it entirely depends.

I mean, I understand that equity is a is an asset creation. I totally get that, John. but I guess from my perspective is that It's a bit like I guess it depends on the circumstances. If you've got a business that's turning over five million quid and you've got someone that can add some, you know, some serious weight to the business, right?

Why would you not give the some a small amount of equity away, provided that it provides a win-win situation? But I guess it all completely depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? John Castro: It does indeed, right? And I would say there's there's two parts to that.

Today, I pr I'm nine times out of ten wouldn't do a something like that without equity. Right. So if I could reverse back six, seven years, I I would have probably tried to stand my ground. I was a lot younger there.

I know, you know, six, seven years isn't really a long time, but I was early thirties. I didn't, you know, I I I I just wanted to make this work. So I needed to give something and and and come into a middle ground. However, you're not wrong in the sense of Adam: Mm-hmm.

Yes. John Castro: Over if you are like two, three, four, maybe five million in turnover and you want to go to ten and you have someone that can come in and do that and help you do that, then there's by no means you should a hundred percent consider an equity share with that person or give them a five, ten percent or an uplift, or even if it's just rev share at the beginning with an agreement to take equity once you hit some KPIs, that's absolutely fine because I agree with you totally.

Like even today I have a an employee of mine on a Rev share model. And over time he will get equity as in in the next two, three years if he achieves his KPIs. And that's that's that's and that and by the way, his commitment to this business is ridiculous. Like it's just extraordinary.

Sometimes he tells me to get out of bed and get going. Do you know what I mean? So that's that's another thing as well, I would say to you. to touch on that, just before I stepped down as CEO, and when I I I stepped down 2024 now, it was around April was my last.

When I stepped down before I left. Adam: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. John Castro: they we did put in an agreement in that business where the entire leadership team would get a profit share at the end of the year because we wanted to make sure that that we started implementing tools like that and a and bonus structures like that to have the that leadership team, which by the way, two and a half years later or whatever it is, are still there, more than likely because they have some skin in the game. Yeah. So yeah, I agree with you with that.

I just think in that moment and it being COVID and the world not really knowing what the fucking was going on, you know. Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Ha John Castro: I needed to give something back in order to get, you know, the control of the business that was theirs for fifteen years, you know?

Adam: You know, it's really fascinating about this. And I just had this epiphany moment. We talked about equity and stuff. And I don't know, when I have conversations with people that are either raising you know, there's a seed raise going on or whatever it might be.

And one of the things that really come to me is again, you don't know what you don't know, right? And so if you've got someone that can really add some value and you've got to then sacrifice some equity for that, and and and I've I've been in situations and listened to conversations where Founders have just walked away and said absolutely no go. and from my perspective, I I'd I say something, I'm like, So what's the real reason for that? And I and from my perspective, it's greed.

Right? It's greed and I and I and and you mentioned saying, which is really interesting, you gotta have some skin in the game. If you don't have skin in the game, then where's the shared risk? You know, it's all about risk management.

And so if you and that's kind of like where the where where you're going down this pathway, this alignment, if you if you want to call it that. And And and it's interesting what you should just shared there, which is if I'd have gone back six to seven years I probably would have changed it for exp consult equity and stuff like that. So John Castro: Yeah, I tell I'll tell you why I would have as well. And and I'll add to that, I think you're not wrong.

I think whenever you consult your clients, whenever I talk to you know, as you know, I work with dozens of UK business owners now and helping them scale and get, you know, get to that point of whether they can potentially exit all of that. and the I the one thing I always say to them is is don't be afraid to give some of it away because at the end of the day, those individuals Adam: Mm. John Castro: Will be able to contribute. They'll have their skin in the game.

They'll see a future just like you do. Now, I'm not saying don't stagger it. I'm not saying don't get creative. And also don't maybe start with a profit or revenue share and then transition to equity, right?

Because I get it. And and on your word greed, I think my experience, especially from that moment, because it was quite it got quite intense, especially with COVID going on in the background. It was it was a pretty intensive time. I say my experience is.

Adam: Yep, yeah. Hmm. Mm hmm. John Castro: It's a control thing a lot more than I found agreed.

And I even find that with owners today. I'm like, you just want to take control because at some level there is one thing, and I'm sure you've seen this a thousand times, where the main thing that I've found that keeps small business owners stuck is actually, yeah, we can go into systems, tactics, strategies. It's ego. Like you think you know everything about your business better than anyone else, and you probably do at some level.

Adam: Hundred percent. John Castro: But when you're trying to scale, it's okay that you get someone that isn't an owner, entrepreneur, that has a commercial skill set that can come in because frankly, what we need to do as business owners is step back and go, we actually aren't the smartest people in the room. We've actually probably got the most resilience, we've probably got the most, you know, in what's the word, motivation and ambition than most people. But it's okay to get someone with a skill set over here that may not have the resilience as a business owner that you have.

But you can give them the foundation to just like go and take your business to the next level. And that's what that's their that's what they love to do. You know, my my younger brother is a great example of that. He is not a, I wouldn't say he's an out and out business owner.

He's not the biggest risk taker. He's been come accustomed to a a lifestyle in in in, you know, where where where we are today in North in London. And but he goes into construction companies and he plays a phenot and he's always a directorship role operationally, commercially. Adam: Mm.

John Castro: And he adds so much value to those businesses. So it makes sense to get him part of the deals, which is what he does. But is he one that's gonna own a big construction company one day? I don't know, but maybe not.

And you'd take someone like my brother Anthony and you'll put him in knowing he can he's now brokering deals for a firm at the moment that they would never get this land and opportunity to to build the get these pieces of land in London unless Anthony had his contacts and his Adam: Mm. Yeah, mm-hmm. John Castro: commercial mindset. So these two owners of this construction company who just again through grit determination have built this 50 million pound thing have now got my brother in who's come from a corporate commercial background and gone, well actually if you want to go to 150 million or you know 250 million, my experience shows me we need to do this.

So now that's cool because they've got someone that maybe isn't the business owner Adam: Mm. John Castro: mindset, but they've got a commercial mindset. And you just keep being the business owner that takes the risk. And frankly, my experience with business owners, hopefully this will, for everyone that's listening, one thing I I want them to understand when they're running a small business, your job is to make the decisions on the risks your employees aren't willing to do.

That's actually your main job is to make decisions on the risks that they just aren't willing to do, which is usually financial risk or, you know, business risk in that sense. And that's your main job. Adam: Mm. Yes.

John Castro: Sign the checks that you and and analyze it that allows your business to scale, but then put the team in place that will then execute on that strategy. That's really what you should be doing as an owner eventually. Do you know what I mean? Adam: Yeah.

Love it. Absolutely. And and we'll talk about the framework that you created a a little a little bit on. I wanna quickly sort of ask you a quick one around the whole control side of stuff because I mean you listen, you work with a lot of business owners and founders like me, and you will have had lots of conversations and this reluctance to give up control because and generally it's not their fault.

in a way, is it? And it's kind of like, you know, we we talked offline about the the economy of trust as well. how do you how do you work with founders and business owners that are wrestling with this whole idea or the old whole ideology of trying to give up control. And you know, is there a do you kind of say to them, you know, is there a transitional phase or is you know, how do you kind of convince people, you know what, this is where you're at.

You can actually be here if you actually put these things in place. But how do you kind of like convince them, like, and get them to overclo overcome that mental block? John Castro: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of things there really.

The first thing is the reason they don't trust their team to execute in the way they think they can execute. As I said, we touched on the ego part, but also you just don't have, and this is going to be the the most cliche thing your listens have probably heard before, but they just don't have the systems in place that they trust that can give to the team to execute at the level that they want to execute it at. However, what's also got to be Adam: Hm. Yep.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. John Castro: what they've got to be clear on is at some level in the beginning, they may not do it as good as you. And that's okay because you own the business. So you're gonna do the little bit extra because you gotta your bills come from that business in the sense of it's your wealth creation tool.

They're doing a job. So as long as you understand that yes, get the systems in place, but they may never do it as good as you. Adam: Mm. Yeah.

John Castro: But if they do it at a level that you can still uphold a high standard in your niche or industry you're in, and then it can release you to do what you should be doing, which is strategic thinking and strategic growth, then why does it matter that they didn't cross the T once because that's how you would do it? That's okay. Did they get the outcome? And is the client happy with the outcome where they would give you a five star review?

Okay, cool. So why do you care? And I think it goes back to something funny enough. Adam: Mm.

Yeah. John Castro: I got from the Stephen Covey book. I can't remember its name now, the habits book. But that's it, yeah.

Where the end in mind. I remember reading that. I was like, shit, I've really got to start thinking with the end in mind and the outcome and how we get there doesn't actually matter. Jeff Bezos says something really famous as well, where he said, be stubborn on the vision, but flexible on the I can't remember the Adam: some habits are highly affected people, yeah.

Yes. Mm-hmm. Execute execution, I think, isn't it? Yeah.

MA. John Castro: Execution, yeah, or something like that, right? And that's exactly what they have to do. They have to be stubborn on okay, I want it to be done, I want my business to run like this.

But how we kind of get there, I don't know. Does that actually matter? That's and I think that's something they just need to, they need and that's why you and me exist if we're honest, right? We need to put the mirror in front of them and go, look, stop, and actually just let go, trial it.

But if your systems are good as well and you haven't got systems, that's why they stress out. Adam: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

John Castro: 'Cause there's a lack of clarity, there's a lack of systems, there's a lack of strategy, and they don't actually know how to hand it over. But once you've done that, hand it over, let it go. Yeah? Does that help?

Adam: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interest yeah, absolutely. I was interesting.

I was I remember actually working with a a a lawyer, believe it or not, and she was a complete control freak, like and most lawyers are because they're so logistic so left brained. And it was really interesting. And for you guys, if you are, by the way, extremely love your job, extremely knowledgeable and left brain logistical mindset, one of the things that I found really works really well, John, is John Castro: No. Adam: actually making a full list of all the things that you do on a weekly basis and saying what would you be confident in handing over?

And it's kind of like baby steps, you know what I mean? Like you do one bit, one bit, one bit. And then eventually you're able to then kind of go, my God, I'm giving all this away and you're okay with that. You know, it's kind of a transitional period.

But I I I but I I can I I know about the struggle and I hear the struggle for you guys that are listening in by the way. So but thanks very much for sharing that with us. John Castro: I'll I'll add to that actually, mate, because I think we've nailed that actually. And and that's the first thing I do with any business owner I work with is we have something I've developed called the founder efficiency system.

And it's literally a brain dump of what you do every day, every week, every month. What are those tasks you do? And we score them on growth impact, we score them on energy level, we score them on what area of the business that actually is. So for example, I had a business owner the other day fill it out and he put in Amazon order and and I was like, What do you mean Amazon orders?

He's Yeah, I Adam: Yeah, go on. Mm. John Castro: do like you know when we need office stuff and what are you do like why is that even in your awareness you know at at two and a half million pounds turnover so that's something of a a r that's something immediately we're like and I know it's only like 30 minutes a month an hour a month it doesn't matter it's it's brain capacity that we're trying to release it's not actually sometimes just time so you're your exact what you're saying there's exactly what we need any business owner should do first.

Adam: Mm. John Castro: get clarity on the five, seven like quick wins, then the next five, seven like what I call friction points, like what's really coming back to you all the time that shouldn't be. And then we put systems to those f things first, delegate those as quickly as possible. And then we we start ticking off that that list over the next 90 days.

But you're you're exactly right. It's exactly what everyone should be doing. It's it's the simplest thing and we just don't do it. Cause when it's 'cause it's so simple, we think, is it that effective?

Adam: Yep. Mm. Yeah. Yep.

John Castro: Yeah, actually most of the time actually the simple things are the the things we should be doing. Adam: Yeah. Yeah, no, I a hundred percent agree. And you just don't know what you don't know either.

And but I love that. now I know that you know some of our founders that are listening in today, you know, they've got service-based businesses. Some of them are doing a half a million, three quarters of a million quid, decent money. but everything goes through them.

Like literally they make all the decisions, they they they firefight, they do everything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Now, if there was John Castro: Yeah. Adam: Now I know that you've created the STS framework.

How does that STS framework help someone like a service based founder that's doing that kind of revenue, that has the potential for growth? How does it plug the gaps? John Castro: Yeah. Brilliant question.

So the STS framework works really simply is systems, team, strategy. That's the STS, right? Systems, team, and strategy. Within systems, team and strategy, there are four phases that every business owner, around half a million, three quarters, anywhere around a million.

And I I o my clients on average are around one point six million on average. So that kind of number, the first thing we have to do is look at Adam: Okay. Awesome, awesome. Yep.

John Castro: What I call the fundamental foundations of your business. That is the systems. That is, okay, how do we map out the business? What are you still involved in?

Let's circle those friction points. Let's put playbooks. I call them playbooks. Some people call them SOPs.

I I don't like SOPs because that that that that vision of SOP means it's like a a long document. We don't do long documents anymore with video AI and all that. You don't need any of that, right? So we just put those foundations in place.

We put a team function chart in place, which is okay, well, who have you got? You know, whether it be contractors, I don't I want your accountant on there. I want to know everyone that helps you operate this business and what they do, their capacity, their functions, and then we can start looking at where we who we give away stuff to. That's the first phase.

Then we've got another phase, which they've got to start looking at data. I mean, you've se probably seen this a thousand times. People want to sell their business and you don't know your numbers. You are never going to sell your business if you cannot just spit numbers out.

I'm talking like Adam: Mm. John Castro: Gross profit, net profit, cost per acquisition, lifetime value of client. You've got to know those things to be valuable. So once we've got foundations in place, which are systems, the second part of your systems is again, how do we actually scorecard our business from everything from how we generate money, how we generate revenue and profit.

So like I call that growth scorecarding, how we then actually deliver the service, which is like fulfillment scorecarding, utilization rates, delivery rates, you know, project management timelines. Adam: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm.

John Castro: All of that kind of stuff needs to we need to know. Like average time you're so if you're an accountant, you work with predominantly law firms from mindset. So let's use that as an example. So if you're a law firm and you and I'm I know they track per six minutes, right?

So that's a very interesting niche. So the good news is you're already tracking that. But what on average are they not billing to billing? Like that's really important.

Like when when they send out their their invoice, what's non-billing work? What's billing work? Well, that non-billing work should really we should try and systemize that first. Adam: Mm-hmm.

John Castro: So the lawyer's not doing the non-billing work, right? That should be someone, frankly speaking, that should just be someone, a good admin person. Does that make sense? So it's things like that.

And if we can s but if we don't scorecard it and we don't know the numbers of the average non-billing per client and all of that, then where are we gonna go? The next thing as well, to finish up on scorecardings, you you as an owner need what I call a CEO scorecard, which is a very Adam: A great Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. John Castro: Common thing.

Like in if you look at any business I know that does five, 10, 15, 25, 50 million, they're like, Yeah, I've got like this CEO dashboard or a CEO scorecard, or I and that is usually 12 to 20 core metrics of your business. Everything from invoice values to cash in the bank, you know, cash buffers, all the way down to again, overall business utilization rate, overall conversion rate, overall lifetime. Like it's like your overview of the entire business. Adam: No.

Mm-hmm. John Castro: So those are the first things we need to do. Those are your systems. We have to get those in place.

And by the way, it sounds like a lot. Give yourself two to three months. You'll get 70, 80% of that done. If you just focus two, three hours a week for about 60 to 90 days, you can get a lot of that done.

And it's not as complicated as people I think they think it is. But like you said, they don't know what they don't know, right? So yeah. So that's the first thing.

Adam: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. True. You know that's the first thing, right?

Yeah, systems good. John Castro: And and then the next thing is the team, right? So then you've got all of this stuff and you've got all your well, let's look at your team. So we now have to review these individuals that you've hired.

And this is the one of the hardest parts, which I call purposeful people, because what happens today, and you'll experience this as well, is that especially as millennials and Gen Zs are coming into the work market and the millennials are now becoming the the the directors and moving up the ladders, they are very different. To our mums and dads. They think differently. Social media's changed how they do life, right?

Everything. So at some level, they are looking for something worthy. I know sometimes they can put themselves on pedal stools too much, and I don't to go into that stuff. But the fact is, is your team are looking for something purposeful.

They want to go to work and actually enjoy it. They actually aren't looking to just pay mortgages anymore because. Adam: Hundred percent. Yes.

John Castro: They actually know they probably won't even get a mortgage one day because of the way that you know, so it's just very different thinking. So when we've got these systems, we've got to go look at our team and are we managing and leading them properly? So we put we need to put infrastructure in for that, whether it be regular check-ins, regular one-to-ones. and I'm not talking like regular is in like what people say, yeah, I meet my team every six months.

No, those aren't one to ones, those are appraisals. Those meetings are usually someone looking to come and ask for a pay rise. That's really what they are. Adam: Yes.

John Castro: What you need to do is once a month actually speak to them. How are you? Know their family members, know what's going on with them and actually come and lead these individuals and hold them accountable though to the systems you've just built, to the KPIs we've just put in paste, to the scorecards, to the playbooks, to the to the what I call mapping, the value mapping of the business, that kind of stuff. Once you've got the people in, well, what's the vision now?

There's a strategy. We need to go, what's the vision? What's the three-year plan? And can we communicate that and cascade that down to the team where everyone is what we call heading in the same direction?

Elon Musk calls it vectoring, where everyone is going in the same direction. And that's the strategy element. We have to have a strategy with a three-year plan that works in what I call we just spoke with offline, 90-day sprints, right? 90-day quarterly meetings that look at the business over 90 days.

You can't scale a business in in in two weeks. It's got to be done in 90 day chunks. Adam: Yep. John Castro: The tax man works in 90 days.

We should work in 90 days, right? And that's how we look at it. So you've got your systems, you've got your team, which is your people, and then you've got your strategy, which is your long-term vision and how you're going to execute that, that you can also communicate down to your team. So that's the entire thing that everyone, in my experience now, needs to do, without a shadow of a doubt.

With that, you've got a sellable asset. Adam: Yeah. Yeah. So got a quick question.

So you're saying so with regards to the SES framework that you've created, when does where does this when can this be implemented? Is there a certain turnover that they need to be hitting for it to be fully effective? What have you found? John Castro: I have found that the minimum turnover, and I'm talking not like your first year, if you have constantly been hitting fifty grand a month turnover, five hundred K a year, that and you've been doing that three, four, five years in a row, you're at a place where you need this stuff because this stuff is going to get you to one million, one point five, and then the next level, right?

But if you're at even one million to five million, you st you'll far I've I I'm working with a founder right now and a business owner right now who's doing about four point seven million and he's still Adam: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Mm. John Castro: Like he was like, I mate, I'm just drained.

And he does what are those garden rooms at the back of houses and stuff like that? You know, those and he builds those, right? Yeah, like you know, everyone's getting home offices or garden rooms, and he does those. And and he actually what he said to me is he hit four million and he had to shrink because it got so stressful.

Do you see what I mean? So and that's because he just didn't have this stuff in. So I would say 500k to about five million. Adam: yeah, yeah.

It does the special builds and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, my channel's got one. Yeah.

Yeah. John Castro: I mean, you'd be surprised if you're at 10 million and you're still in the day today, then you need this stuff. But I would say that's the sweet spot for this stuff I'm talking about. Because when you're over five million and let's say you net on average 20%, you've got enough cash flow, frankly, to just go and get four or five great bloody leaders, drop net profit for a year or two while they just go and do it all for you.

But when you don't have that and you're under that, you need to start putting this in yourself a little bit. And that's how you then can go get those leaders. Adam: Yeah, I agree. I was gonna say 'cause 'cause I was gonna push push you back on on the framework and stuff, because I think that there's obviously, you know, an element of listeners that are doing a hundred to five hundred K and that that's still good turnover, ladies and gents, by the way.

But I feel like probably the focus then shifts to more profitability first, so you have more cash flow generation and then people and then systems, because then you've gone, like you said, got the resources to then plug in to make your life easier, isn't it? John Castro: Yeah, absolutely. absolutely. And I I'd add to as well, wait, when it comes to cash flow, the reason you probably have cash flow issues is because you've got inefficient systems and you don't track your numbers properly.

Because if you track your numbers properly, there'll probably be work and projects that you take on depending on your industry. But any client, you might actually say no to people because you realize there's no margin in it. But I I I've worked with business owners that take on work and they're like, Yeah, I needed it because I'm like, Well what for? Because there's no margin, right?

With all with all respect to everybody listening, whether you're at a hundred K or a hundred million. Business is about making profit. And that's not because of greed. That's because that's our scorecard of having a good business.

That's it. Like why unless you're a non for profit or you're a charity, we need to make profit. We need to make cash flow. So yeah, man, it's it's very important.

And I I would say that just to for those people that are making a little bit less than half a million, you should still start looking at systems. You just may not need as many as all the stuff I've just said, but you definitely like you might have two, three people in your team. Okay, well, as a t that's even Adam: Mm. Yes.

John Castro: Juicer because you could sit together and they're probably a lot more involved and you can start doing these things now. So when you do get to half a million, a million, you've already got some foundation, foundation in place. Because when you hire staff as well, back to people, nobody wants to come into a chaotic business. Nobody wants to work in that.

They don't know they're going to come and work in that. And then people go, Well, they don't stay long. Well, they don't stay long because it frankly, with all respect to everyone, I hope this doesn't come across wrong, but you're terrible to work for. That's why.

Because they're coming into chaos. Adam: Mm. right. John Castro: What if if it's Adam: It's true.

John Castro: chaos for you, why would they want to manage your chaos? Do you see what mean? So I think again, I'm directing a lot of what I'm saying to the business owner. So if you're listening and you are this is really to the business owner.

Like if you are chaotic and you hire a team to try and fix that, no one wants to fix chaos, but they are happy to come in and support systems and structure and adapt them and evolve them. Adam: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. John Castro: But please don't think like I I can't stand this hire your way to success stuff.

Yeah, that is for, and I say this with all the respect, that is for like the seasoned entrepreneur doing tens of millions, you know, or five million and above. When you're below five million, yes, you need to hire your way to success, quote unquote. But no good A player asks to be a business owner, otherwise they would be one. So they don't want to come into a business.

Adam: Mm. Free. John Castro: And clean up chaos unless you are giving them segue for equity, share, all of that. But if you're just paying them a salary, they want to come in, eight players want to come in and hit the ground running.

Right. So they don't w that that I hope that helps your listeners to understand. Like, you know, when you're looking at team members, ignore this hire your way to success stuff unless you've got great systems in place because it just won't work. Yeah.

Yeah. Adam: It Course I do. Yeah. No, absolutely.

I think Yep, agreed. Love that. Is there any such thing as so I I I because I know you're hugely passionate about systems because that's your thing, but is there any su is there any such thing as can you oversystemise a business? Is there any is there any point where processes, playbooks, all of this, you know, all this systems nonsense that we're talking about where it begins to choke the business rather than kind of making it more more efficient?

Have you seen that? John Castro: I absolutely have seen that. You are not wrong, mate. to the point where I saw a business owner who had a a process on how to use the coffee machine.

And I was like, What? Why? Why do you I just want to make sure everyone keeps the thing clean? I get it, right?

Just have like a kitchen rules or something, but you don't need like a document on how to use the I mean that it comes with a manual, you know. but yeah, you're you're absolutely not wrong. And I think that is the biggest misconception of what a lot of people think when they talk about. Adam: What what?

John Castro: processes or SOPs and you think you need to document absolutely everything. And I couldn't disagree more. What you need to document first, phase one, is what the four, five, s maybe seven friction points or bottlenecks or things that you shouldn't be dealing with. Start with you, start there, and even for one year, nail those.

No, those seven things that keep coming back to you. I'm talking like Client inquiries, you're writing still you're still writing proposals and quotes, which by the you don't need humans for anymore with bloody Claude. You just trust set up a Clawed project and it should be doing your quotes for you. Right.

We won't go into that, but that's what you should be doing. But the point I'm making is, yeah, you're you're not wrong. Like they just and I'm like I had a funny enough, I had a client, I hope he doesn't see this, but I had a guy come to me the other day, he owns care homes and he's like, Yeah, I'm doing all these sops and he showed all these. I'm like, my god, no wonder your team Are like no no no, please don't do this stuff because you've got hundreds of what I call digital dust.

That's all you've created. Yeah, no one wants to deal with that stuff, right? They just don't. So I I couldn't agree more with what you're saying, and I've seen it a lot.

And also for those who haven't done it yet, don't think, don't let thinking you need a hundred SOPs stop you starting small. Two, three, four, five. Adam: Digital dust. John Castro: core functions that keep bothering you that you feel you shouldn't be doing, start there.

And then we build from there. You know? that that's how I would personally do it. And it's worked phenomenally for my clients.

Adam: How would you I mean it's really interesting, like, you know, you've gone from, you know, I I suppose ex GM of sales to CEO role, and now you run your own consultancy effectively. How have you how have you created that what's the been the mindset shift for you? Because they've three different number one, three different roles, three different skill sets, and yet you have kind of like, you know, you you you're seeing things, you're seeing patterns and you're seeing John Castro: Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam: whatever it is and you're duplicating whatever it is that you're seeing, how have you found those transitional periods in your career?

And what what's what's been the main identity shift for you? John Castro: That is a really good question, mate. Really good question. Let me think about this because I want give a really valuable insight for people.

Okay. I think the main thing for me, obviously, when you're a CEO, it's just a completely different role. it it really isn't about doing stuff, if I'm honest. So the last two years as a CEO, I always say to people and they think, What do you what do you mean?

I'm like, I didn't actually do much. Like I didn't have a full inbox. I didn't have because I had an EA. Adam: Yes, yes.

John Castro: Who dealt with that. So, you know, as you become a CEO, what you're really doing is you're shifting from being a bit of a doer, strategic thinker. Like as a GM, for example, I was a strategic thinker. I still done stuff.

Sometimes I even took a few sales calls because I liked it. And, you know, I got involved. I went on the sales floor and coached people. As a CEO, you actually realize you don't need to do any of that.

What you actually are doing is that is managing four or five core leaders of the business who then Adam: Yeah. Mm-hmm. John Castro: Cassade everything down to the team, right? And being an expert at doing that, being an expert at seeing pattern recognition, whether it be in the business or in the people running the business, where you can adjust things and be agile.

Also looking strategically whether you're looking for expansion. So we built a country partner in Germany. That's my time is there. My time was what can we do in Scandinavia?

We had a country partner there. My time was okay, do we now. Adam: Mm-hmm. John Castro: Frankly, minimize our team slightly in the UK and start looking at South Africa and India.

And we did that. And we had South Africa team members. We had teams in India. We had teams in Germany.

And that was what I was doing. But the physical running of the business, I didn't do much. I led it. I sat in boardrooms.

I let the team present to me. They gave me recommendations. We had a process that we run through, which I teach my clients now. When you do your what we call Hods meetings, heads of department meetings.

They you don't do lead you lead it in the sense of you're at the top, let's for example, but they come in and they fill in what this template that I give them to give to their team, which shows right highlights, low lights, here's my scorecard, here's my KPIs where I'm at, here's where I need help. We don't need to know what you're doing well at at the moment. If you need help, this is what this meeting's about. Any recommendations, you've always got to come with solutions.

So any recommendations that and then that's what I was doing. So that transition. was so hard to the point I had a team member come to my office once and sit down and ask me to leave her alone. That's how much I wasn't a CEO in the beginning because she just needed to be left alone because I'm so used to being like on the trenches and on the floor, if you know what I mean.

and that was a that was a huge shift for me until the actual team members sat me down and go, look, we get that you've built this thing. We get that you, you know, you're Adam: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. John Castro: culture, your energies in it, but we got this man. And I was like, all right, cool.

And then the last two years I really stepped back and I was like, okay, let them flow. And it just kept growing, mate. It was awesome. So that was a massive shift.

Adam: How was it's really interesting. I love that story, by the way. How do you compare your how do you compare the the role of CEO to founder? You know, in terms of because I mean two very different roles.

You've held both of them, but because and and again, the reason I'm asking this question is because, you know, w we have business owners and founders that are listening in right now, and then there'll be people in management, which is CEO CEOs. How does the role differ between the two? Is there much of a differentiation? Because what you're saying is when I was a CEO, I just let everyone trust the process and whatever it is.

Is there really much differentiation between a CEO and a founder role? John Castro: Absolutely. I have found that because you're the founder of the owner, which is what a lot of my clients call themselves. They're not very founder, I find a bit of an American terminology, but yeah, they they they definitely but founder or owners, the biggest difference is is you think you are the business.

Technically, even if you look at it like administrationally, you aren't. You just own shares in a d in a document that says there's a business called this, right? Called John Castro Limited. So Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. Sure. John Castro: To go from that to a CEO, you have to remember you have a role which essentially is employed by this entity to do a specific job. The challenge, what I find with owners and founders, is they because they are so attached and their identity is the business, they even let themselves get away with too much.

To be a CEO and to be what I call a scalable CEO, you cannot think like a founder, which brings us back to that point I was saying where Adam: Mm. John Castro: Even putting things through your business, living your lifestyle through your business. I had an owner a few months ago say to Yeah, I'm setting up another business because I've hit 1.6 million and I don't want to have to do accrual accounting.

And so he's gonna he's gonna invoice his service part of his business in this business and invoice his projects from this business. I'm Yeah, but how are you? Your clients are gonna get two different limited cards. Well, they're gonna so similar and it doesn't matter.

I'm like, bro, like I get it, but growth and Adam: Yeah. John Castro: play and having to move with the tax system is a good thing. And that's the CEO that knows. And I had to have that combo with the original founders of Investment Marshall and go, no, no, we've got to we we've got to stop this.

Like we've got to start building the PL as a business. Not easy, bro. Because you know, and I'm not saying some of you out there listening are probably might have a wife on the payroll, you might have a family member, you might have you might yeah, you might have your kids there with your five. that's Adam: Mm.

Hmm, no. Yes. Leave in your pet dog. John Castro: You might you might even have a nice car going through and somehow you convince the tax man that that car is for business.

Guys, if you're driving a Lambo or a Range Rover and you're going through your car and you have an accounting firm, it's very hard to justify why Lamborghini helps you run an accounting firm. The point I'm making is that's the the mindset shift is you cannot be the business when you're trying to be the CEO that wants to scale and exit. If you want to scale and exit, you've got to shift and step back. And actually, frankly, take dividends and prove you can take dividends, right?

Enough out because when someone buys it, guess what they want to do? They want to take dividends, right? And if you can't prove that you've been able to do that over three to four, five years, they're not buying a a business, are they? They're buying something what you what we call a lifestyle business, which a lot of business owners probably listening to this have got, frankly.

And that's how you that's the different shifts of owner, founder. Adam: So true. Yeah, absolutely. John Castro: To I'm a CEO now.

I actually am an owner, I'm a CEO, I operate here and I take money out just like everyone else, and I pay my lifestyles over here. It's separate. And we've just gotta, we've got to do that. And even with this, you're asking about because obviously I'm now back in founder mode, right?

We're in startup consulting firm. Now we're multiple six figures already. We'll be on track for seven in our probably, I would say, year two, so our first seven-figure year. So, and I can do that because I've I've done it before, but Adam: Yes.

John Castro: I'm already treating this business, excuse me. I'm already treating this business the way I would treat it as if it was going to be sellable. Now, I don't think this consulting thing is something I want to sell or anything. It's kind of like my passion, purpose, cash flow thing.

But nevertheless, you ask my accountant. I don't put anything through that I don't need to. Do I put the odd flight through? You know, I hope no tax man's listening here.

Do I do this? I get it, man. Yeah, some. Adam: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. John Castro: But do I go and put cars through it? Do I put like no, I I personally don't do that because if I'm telling all my owners how to treat their PL, I need to be an example. But at the same time, I just like showing I earn money.

Why? Because whenever you want to scale, guess what you might need one time? You might need lending. You might need investors, you might need to give away equity.

And if you're giving away equity on a PL that looks like you make 10% because you take out and you put so much through the business, but actually if you stop doing that, you'd actually make twenty percent. Like it's all that kind of stuff, mate. And I Adam: You know, I can so resonate with that. I actually and you made a really valid point there.

And so for you guys that are listening, by the way, especially if you're looking to grow through acquisitions or you're looking to raise equity or release some equity or whatever it might be, right? The bank, your investors, private equity or whatever it is, those are the guys that have got the money. Those are the guys that are going to lend the money. And if they see on your PL that you basically make a tenth of what your actual turnover is.

John Castro: Yeah. Adam: Maybe you should really kind of think about your tactics right now because and that, ladies and gentlemen, by the way, is what's gonna keep you stuck. Because ultimately you've got nothing else. So you do change that mindset.

It might sound good short term, but I can tell you now, long term, it will hurt you. Okay, it will hurt you. So that's a good one. I like that, John.

John Castro: Yeah, no one no one's buying a P L that they can't take money out of. Right. Unless they're a turnaround person, which by the way, most people in go in in like building acquisitions, whether they're PE or a family office or a VC. The fact is is they're looking to buy revenue.

Now then and they're also something I've learned recently, because I'm going into the acquisitions game next year, so I'm trying I'm I'm getting like very privy to that market. is business don't try and and how do I explain this? I'm trying to use an okay, don't Adam: Yes. John Castro: Eat all the meat on the bone, right?

You want to leave some of the meat for the buyer. And that's okay, because you're about to get a nice lump sum that should change your life. If you're selling with for a lump sum that isn't going to change your life, I don't know why you're selling, right? So so give that buyer a bit of meat on that bone still that they can then go and either chew themselves and benefit from, or they see an opportunity to take it to another level that maybe you didn't want to or couldn't do.

But if you Adam: Mm-hmm. Yeah. John Castro: Eat all the meat on the bone, no one's gonna want to buy your business. They wanna buy businesses with some meat on it.

I'm using a really awful analogy. You know what I mean? Yeah, like it's just like leave the meat on the bone. They don't.

Yeah. No, I would like I probably would because I actually am quite good at turnarounds, as you know, right? I don't mind going in there and going, Okay, let me just change this up and I'll take it from ten percent net to twenty percent in two years or one year and you know, whatever. Adam: Yep.

No one Yep. But it's a great metaphor. It's it's like no one want no wants to take the scraps, ladies and gentlemen. Fucking people hate scraps, right?

People hate that crap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. John Castro: I could I would. I'm I'm attracted to that stuff a little bit.

But I but most 99% of people buying businesses, properly buying businesses, not you know these Instagrammers saying they're buying businesses. but proper people that buying business, they need they need some meat on the bone. They want to be able to they're trying to buy a business that gives them money. And if you s try and sell a business that doesn't show they can take money out, why are they buying it?

So I agree with you. If your listeners are Adam: Exactly. So true. John Castro: Looking for that stuff, please, please, please run a PL that some a buyer can see there is meat on the bone and and or or an opportunity to take it to a level that maybe you it's all good, man.

It's fine. Yeah. Adam: Agreed. Absolutely agreed.

Now for you guys that are listening, hopefully you're you're getting some value from our conversation. I certainly am. I've got I've been veris ferociously writing down some notes with John, which is really good. But now what we're gonna do, we're gonna do the fun part, which is the coaching part.

Now I thought I thought, John, that actually one of your one of your big passions actually is talking about mental health. And we see that in in some of your LinkedIn posts and some of the other stuff that you put on social media. And I'd I'd love to kind of like talk a little bit about that because I know certainly from as an entrepreneur and as a founder myself, you know, I think being human, of course, I think we all struggle with our mental health. And I me personally, I do struggle with balance balancing you know, family life and having kids and like there's a lot of things to juggle.

You know that 'cause I mean you you you know, you you got a wife and stuff like that. So it's very difficult. And I find, you know, people that or founders more specifically that have not experienced what I call the founder's roller coaster, have never lived in a nutshell. But most people generally have been on that roller coaster.

But it but I I I don't know. I I found it particularly sometimes You go through phases of life, or certainly I do, that like I'd I'll never give up, right? That's just that's just me, right? That's my DNA.

Like I I I know I'll never give up. But I can tell you now, John, sometimes it can wear you down, like really wear you down. Do you have any tips about people that are on an emotional roller coaster? So whether it might happen every 12 months, every six months.

Or even every sort of five years, what do you advise some of your clients on that emotional roller coaster? Cause I mean, listen, like you had alluded in our conversation, which you're absolutely bang on, the founder is very much emotionally attached to the business. You know, because it's their life, it's their passion, it's what they they've built effectively. what do you advise people?

John Castro: Gonna go two directions with this. I'm gonna go tactical and then we'll go a bit of mindset stuff. All right. So tactically, the facts, the reason that you're probably stressed about your business is two things.

You either think you need to do a hundred things and you never get any of them done. So we need to now actually simplify that list of a hundred things and prioritize where we spend our time in our business, because you just cannot do a hundred, especially probably the listeners here. Adam: Sounds good, man. Ha ha ha.

Mm. John Castro: Who are probably sub five million with a smaller team of maybe five, 10, you just you're not, you can't do what Amazon's doing. That's okay, right? So just take your hundred ideas, pick two or three every 90 days that you're going to give energy and effort to, and everything else goes in a box.

It will help you distress. You just have to accept you can't do it all right now, and that's okay. One step, because over over two, three, four years. Adam: Ha ha ha.

John Castro: those small projects that you take on one bite at a time will compound and eventually you'll go from 500k and suddenly you're a five million pound business with 30 staff, right? But if you just keep so so and the reason we have this list of a hundred things to do, and I'm gonna go a little bit now to what we do personally is social media. You're just consuming more than you're creating. And we all do it.

I Doom scroll, you doom scroll, we all have those Adam: Mm. Great. Yes, agreed. Yep.

John Castro: By the way, Jeff Bezos probably has a moment where he has a Doom Scroll. Maybe not. And maybe he's that unique, but I know fuck Elon Musk Doom Scrolls because he's on Twitter, he's on X more than anyone, right? So, you know, and I know some extremely successful people that make hundreds of millions of dollars in their business that have a Doom Scroll now and again.

However, they are very good at knowing what to watch and listen to. And actually, funny enough, a lot of the most successful entrepreneurs, they don't actually follow business people on Social media, they follow comedians, they follow, you know, stoicism stuff. You know, they're not actually follow. But nevertheless, that's my point is that you've got just so much going on because you think you have to do a hundred things.

It's back to that processes thing. You need you think you need a hundred. No, you don't. Same with your project, same with your business.

And the reason you think you've got a hundred things to do is because you're consuming too much rather than just getting on with the work. And when you don't do what you said you was going to do, emotionally we feel shit. Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

John Castro: Right, we feel like we're failures because you we associate not doing work with failure. And the reason you're not doing work is because you're trying to do too much. And that's a fact. And it's okay to focus on two, three things only.

That's okay. And those two, three things will move the business forward one percent, one percent, one percent. And over a year, as I said, that compounds. So that's the tactical part of it that will help you understand why you're feeling that way.

Because I'm sure, like you, a lot of us have a to-do list. I tell my clients. Adam: Mm. Love that.

John Castro: Every day, at worst case, at best, I mean at minimum every week, I want you to write down what you did, not what you didn't do. What did I complete this week? What did I complete today? Because mentally that's going to shift your emotion to go, shit.

I actually did quite a lot. I'll tell you where I got this from actually one of my ther a therapist of mine where I had a moment when I stepped down as CEO where I was lost for six to twelve months a little bit. I was like, like. Adam: Mm.

John Castro: Who am I now? Like what do I do? I literally woke up. I don't, I'm not going to an office of twenty five people.

I'm not jumping on 10 teams calls today. This is really weird. anyway, we started talking and about he he said it to me once he goes, You relate rest and not working with unproductive, being unproductive. And being unproductive means you're a failure.

And I'm like, Wow. Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Mm, that's interesting.

I like that. That's I can totally relate to that, John. John Castro: Right. It's like you stopped doing work, so now your business is gonna fail.

I'm like so for all the founders, the owners here, it's not like it's okay to enjoy the British sun right now and have a pub garden night tonight with England, right? It's okay because by the way, none of your clients care about you at ten pm or nine pm kickoff for the World Cup tonight. Like no one cares, right? No one's thinking about you right now.

But on Monday they might be. So that's okay. So deal with it Monday. So it's kind of like Adam: Mm.

John Castro: As I said, just to give it full circles, you think you've got a lot to do when you actually don't because you're just consuming too much, not creating. Right. So what you need to do is prioritize and filter what's the biggest priority in the business right now. Focus on that.

And actually acknowledge yourself when you complete something, so your mind and your emotions go, I actually am all right. I'm actually doing all right. And when my therapist said that to me, he also asked me to tell me what I did in one day. And he stopped me at eight thirty AM.

Adam: Mm. John Castro: Right. I was going, okay. Well, I did this.

He goes, Do you know by eight thirty you have done something for your health? You have been responsible you've taken the dog for a walk. So you've been responsible. You've replied to a team member because some of my team are two hours ahead of us.

So you've replied to them. So you've done a little bit of work at some like you just listed it. Because do you realize at eight thirty most people are still driving to work and you have done 10 things? So I think the realization of that as well for me was like Adam: Yeah.

You're home. Okay. John Castro: Okay, I am actually productive. Like I am actually doing stuff and every day.

So hopefully that's helped everyone to to get a bit of tactical that helps the mindset. Do you know what I mean? Adam: Mm. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. And I think it's a great dopamine release as well. and I think that you know, when you have this periods of self-reflection, so generally at the end of the week, generally on a Sunday, I reflect back on what I've achieved in the previous week, but I'm also pre planning what I'm set to want to get done the coming week.

And I just use that Sunday evening for like, I don't know, 60, 90 minutes. Doesn't have to be a long period of time, but it just gives you that brain space to allow your time to reflect and and see what's what's actually what what are some of the milestones that you've achieved. And I think it's such a an underestimated tactic as you want to call it that. so I think that's a really good thing.

You know, it's really interesting as well. I want to say share something as well. I used to believe, and this is a belief system, and I think I think we all we've all got beliefs, right? It doesn't matter but whether it whether be true or not true is completely irrelevant.

But I used to think that if I wasn't busy, okay, that I was I wasn't important. And that is a belief system that stuck with me for many, many, many, many years. Because I think the way that I'm wired is because I am a doer. Like if you gave me a to-do list, it's already done, two hours, that's it, done.

Like I am one of those types of people, but then people are wired in different ways, right? And so I always used to believe, and it kind of goes back to that unhealthy ideology of hustle culture. You know, if you had this kind of and again, I I This was a a culture and a and a belief system that was stuck with me for years, John. That if I didn't believe that I was busy, I'm not important.

I'm not making impact. I'm not helping people. And that to me used to make me, it will used to crush me. You know what I mean?

And I'm not sure if you've ever experienced that. But for those guys that are listening in, by the way, and I don't know if you can relate to this in any way, shape, or form, is there anything that you would share? Any final thoughts on on that final final kind of question? John Castro: Yeah, yeah.

I mean, well, appreciate you sharing that, because I I think nine times out of ten, every owner, business person is exactly like that. And I have exactly the same thing. And I and I realized so so so my final thought on that would be it's okay to rest. It's okay.

Because rest is re rest is productive. It's like trying to tell, you know, let's use cause we're cause World Cup time, whenever you're watching this, it's like World Cup at the moment. Adam: Thank you. Yes, of course.

John Castro: But those footballers play the game and they don't go and play another one straight away. They leave it on the pitch for ninety minutes and then they go and they take a few days off. Because and and as business owners, we are also quote unquote professionals. So but we are professionals in another way.

We're probably dr we're probably more mentally challenged than physically challenged like sports people. But you what's interestingly enough, and I want everyone to understand this, and I hope this could be a great final thought for you, is if You wanted to become a the world champion boxer, right? And you had to go and do that, you would go and push yourself to limits, but your trainer would also then go, Now go home and I need you to get eight hours sleep. And by the way, most peak athletes don't just get eight hours, they rest during the day as well, because they know they're about to push their body to the limit.

You're just pushing yourself mentally to the limit. But why is that any different to physically? Because Adam: Mm. Yes.

John Castro: We all know, and we don't need to go into that, but we whether you want to go spiritually or science based, your mind is creating what you're what's going on here anyway, right? Because our thoughts create our emotions, which our emotions create our actions and our actions create our results. So overall, it's okay to rest. I will add a disclaimer, as long as you don't use rest to procrastinate and avoid what you need to face in your business.

That's the main thing. Just be really good, you know, train yourself in self-awareness. Adam: Mm, yeah. Mm-hmm.

John Castro: Get to know yourself and know when you're resting for rest's sake or to just spend time with family, which is why we all do this anyway, probably. Actually re-uh engaging with your purpose and then also know when you're actually just taking rest because you're procrastinating too, because that's not an ideal thing. So hopefully that's helped me. Adam: Mm, mm, mm.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, I mean, going back to the whole kind of high sports, high sports performance, you know, and being a an ex a elite athlete and stuff, I you know, we talked about the importance of rest and recovery. You know, all the top athletes do it, right?

It's just as important as actually training. and you're actually you you hit the nail on the head when you're like, just because we're not physically pushing our body, we're mentally pushing our body. You're absolutely one hundred percent and and kind of rest is so Rest and recovery is so underestimated, I think, because it allows you and gives you the free space to things like create self awareness and self reflect and you know and improve and just things like that. The other thing that I would say, and again, I'm gonna kind of ask one final question is the constant so logically we like I know for a fact that logically.

Rest and recovery is important. I know logically 100% all the top athletes do it. But you know the other thing that's wrestling with me is guilt. So you've got guilt and then you've got rest and recovery.

When you've got those two combinations, because they're two very polar opposite outcomes, how do you balance between someone that is feeling guilty to someone that needs to rest and recover? And I'm sure that you've probably had conversations with some of your clients where you can see that they're pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and you know that they're on the brink of breaking if they don't ease up. What do you say to those people? John Castro: Really, really good.

that's a really good question. I would tell them that The reason my experience, the reason I have felt guilty stopping work, is because I think that if I keep doing more, I can push things forward. But the problem is, is you're pushing things forward at 50% capacity when you're at that point, what you're talking about. So is it better genuinely?

Like is this is a strategy for you to perform in your business? Like, is it better to go actually I We'll just take this Saturday, just this one a month, if you want, right? And I'm gonna actually do nothing. Like today, I had a, as you know, I had a mastermind day yesterday where it took it out of me.

I'm in front of the room all day, I'm on my feet all day. I'm deal excuse me, I'm dealing with emotions, I'm dealing with this, I'm I'm dealing with strategy, like my mind. So what did I do before we spoke today this afternoon? I did nothing all day.

And I was okay with that because I knew I needed to recover there. Adam: Yeah. Yeah. John Castro: And I knew if I tried to get on my laptop and do work this morning, I wasn't going to give it my all because I I'm already pretty drained from yesterday.

So I think it's just about really getting clear with yourself two things, that if you do the work you think you need to get done, can you give it everything it needs to to get it done properly? If it's a no, just take some I mean, don't take the whole day, take a few hours. Go and do it again, you know. At the same time, I want everyone to be clear, just to hopefully they can get this as well, is that Adam: Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. John Castro: As well, it yeah, go back to that you just think you need to do a hundred things and a lot of the time doing a hundred things at ten percent doesn't get you a result, but doing two things at a hundred percent will get you a bigger result. So if that thing keeps propping up and you're feeling guilty because you got to do all these little things that you keep talking about, don't like prioritize better. And I think your Sunday thing, your you nailed it when you said it is the most underestimated sixty minutes of your week, which is Sunday brain dump.

Clear the decks as I call it, you're ready for Monday kind of stuff. So hopefully that's helped them understand that that as well and given some value to them. Adam: Yeah. Absolutely.

I always go back to the question and and and and again this is a question I ask my subconscious, which is, is this worth it? You know, and it sounds really fucking stupid, but you know, and and it's kind of like, you know, is it worth me killing myself? Is it worth me, you know, doing this and whatever it might be? Because hey, we only live one life and you know, and you see so many people that are affected with mental health anxiety.

John Castro: Hmm? Adam: Even heart attacks in people in the in their mid forties, it just kind of like draws me back and I just kinda think to myself, Do you know what? Is all this stress really worth it? John Castro: Yeah, absolutely.

And and I think we all need to look at that. And I think we start a lot of us start businesses because we want freedom and choice. And all you've done is not create any of that. So brings us full circle, really, is that you know, in order to scale, exit, or even get a business to where you need to get it to, in order to get that freedom and choice that we all essentially started our businesses for, you need your systems, you need your team, you need your strategy, but you also need to be what I say to every Adam: Yes, agreed.

John Castro: You also need be kind to yourself, man. Right? You we're we're we're all just trying to do the best we can with what we know. And if you will need to know more, go and seek that information from someone who can get it to you and then go and act on it.

But the worst thing is, is not acting on it either, right? So we have to understand the balance. It's like scales, isn't it? Rest and productivity.

Rest and productivity at the same time. Don't rest if you do have work to do and it needs to get done, but do rest if it's just gonna make you unproductive anyway. Right? We've got to be able to know that.

Adam: Yeah man. Self love. Agreed. Mm.

Love it. Absolutely. Some good stuff there, John. Thank you so much.

Listen, for you guys that are listening in, me and John could probably talk for hours, in all honesty. we've covered a lot of ground. I just want to say that like we have really packed it in. and honestly, this has been a great conversation.

First of all, I hope you've got some value bombs from today's episode. I certainly have we got like three pages of notes just from that. John Castro: No, no. Honestly we really could really could yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Adam: And for you guys that are listening in ball though, make sure that you go and check out John Castro over on social media, LinkedIn, YouTube. and was gonna say to you, feel free to reach out to him as well, mention the podcast as well. and hopefully, you know, if you've got some questions around our conversation, whether it be around mental health or system and scale, that kind of stuff, feel free to reach out to him. I'm sure that all him and his team will be more than obliged.

And for and second of all, John, I just want to say thank you so much. Been a great show, right? John Castro: it's been awesome, buddy. I mean, me and you, we always talk longer than we need to, even on the phone.

I knew this was gonna go, yeah, we could be here for a few hours. So yeah, I appreciate you even wanting me to contribute to your audience. I appreciate anyone who's listened even to this far. Thank you.

Cause you know, I'm on a mission to really help specifically UK business owners find freedom and choice through business ownership. So, you know, and that we do that through Systems Team and Strategy. But if you do wanna, you know, any more catch me. The best place to catch me is LinkedIn.

Adam: Ha ha ha John Castro: Is a big is a really good one. and also Instagram. It's just one John Castro. Just search it.

Like literally the number one. And I'm the same across all social platforms. Adam: Fantastic. Now we'll put all the links in the show description notes, guys, to make sure that you can go ahead and do that.

So without further ado, thanks very much for you, John. And and also thanks very much to you guys that are listening in. make sure that if you haven't already done so, by the way, make sure that if you are following over us on YouTube or listen to this on YouTube, make sure you go and hit that follow and subscribe button and click that bell notification in that LinkedIn profile as well. And from me and John, thank you so much.

And we'll see you again on the business strategist. Take care. John Castro: Thanks guys. Adam: speak to soon.

Cheers now. Bye-bye.