Episode 008 with Rachel Jones, Founder of SnapDragon!

Speaker A: Hello, and welcome Back to the BroadTech Podcast. My name is Amy Kelly, and I am delighted to be joined by Rachel Jones, founder of Snapdragon. Before we jump into this episode, we have a few words from today's sponsor, our friends at, uh, User Testing.

Speaker B: Hi, I'm Jamie Anderson, and I'm the president of User Testing. If you don't know who we are, we are the company that helps major brands across the world craft amazing customer experiences by understanding how their customers truly feel about their products, services, and digital experiences. Go and check us out@usertesting.com so thank

Speaker A: you so much for taking the time to join us today. Rachel, how are you?

Speaker C: Thank you for inviting me. I am thrilled to be here.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for making the time. We'd, uh, love to just kick start, which is a little bit more information about yourself. Tell us a little more about your backstory.

Speaker C: Of course, of course. Well, I think my backstory is four things. It is being totally passionate about people, developing them in the workplace and into the workplace. It's about fakes, finding them online, keeping them offline to keep consumers safe and businesses from going bust. It's about raising awareness of fakes to prevent people from being hurt. And it's about kind leadership. Not so that you don't make a profit, but being clear about the profit. Being clear about KPIs, but not being unkind while you're going about it.

Speaker A: Yes. Always be kind. If no one remembers anything else today, always be kind.

Speaker C: Always be kind.

Speaker A: Always be kind.

Speaker C: You can be firm and kind, but, yeah, kindness is a very underrated virtue.

Speaker A: And I just love the fact that we're starting this conversation with that. I think that's beautiful. Um, so we'd love to talk about Snapdragon. So can you tell me why you started Snapdragon?

Speaker C: Yeah, no, of course. So Snapdragon is an online brand protection business. And I started it because 22 years ago, I invented a baby product for my daughter, who is now studying mechanical engineering. So I don't wave the photographs around anymore of her as a baby. And the product was called Tot Seat, a washable, squashable high chair for babies who lunch. And I created it because as a parent, I did not want to spend my life in Pizza Hut, and I wanted to keep going to kind of funky cafes and to travel. And every time I was offered a high chair, it was absolutely. Well, I think we'd say in Scott's minging, and it would be hauled out of the downstairs loo, and I just wouldn't want to put her in it. So I would take a jumper off and I would tie her into chair with my jumper. And then one day I was particularly fed up and I chopped up my wedding dress to make a kind of large nappy type thing for her, which then became the tot seat, which I, um, had never made anything before. So I got a friend to help me sew it. And, uh, then I took it to market and it did really well and became market leader. And we got it into 55 countries through major retailers such as Fanac and John Lewis and Boots and their equivalents in 55 countries. And as we moved manufacturing to China from the UK because the quality was better and it was closer to our biggest export market, which was Japan, it was counterfeited. Now, I had filed really good intellectual property for the Totsi while I was developing it and I had had issues with high street retailers ripping me off. Um, but I hadn't actually considered a counterfeit. And the counterfeit was in its packaging, just a mirror image of my product into which I had put blood, sweat and tears. And it was seized at customs, um, by, um, the Border Force, because I had registered it with Customs, uh, which is a good thing to do. And if anybody ever has a product and they haven't registered at customs, I recommend you do. Um, and the bottom fell out of my world. I was just appalled. I was, I just thought, oh, my God, it was a baby product. If a baby could get hurt or I might have been sued. So I just, I, I just couldn't afford to just go, well, I've got counterfeits. You know, I just wasn't, and I wasn't prepared to do that. So within two days of finding, having the counterfeit sent up to us in Edinburgh, I found a couple of lasses at the, um, Edinburgh, spoke Chinese, who helped me find the fakes online. I discovered they were being sold on the Alibaba platform. So I decided I would go and see Alibaba. So within two weeks I was on a flight to China to the Alibaba headquarters with an amazing graduate who is a graduate in criminology who I met in a coffee shop who was kind of really interested in fakes. I thought, well, you come along the journey and she is still with the business as director of brand protection, you know, 10 years on. And she and I went out to Alibaba and we sat there, um, like a scene from a bad movie, until they saw us and they taught us how to use intellectual property to take the fake Tot seats offline. And I didn't know you could do that because before I just thought it was all run down to kind of expensive legal letters and lawyers and I just couldn't afford any of that. And they were a bit surprised to meet a kind of middle aged woman from Morningside who was really passionate about their product and getting the fakes offline. But they were really kind and taught us what to do. We got the fakes offline, came back to the UK and I thought, right, I need to sort this issue out. And so I sorted it out for myself. And then I discovered that other people in the baby industry who are friends had similar issues, but nobody would talk about fakes. And it was honestly a bit like sexually transmitted diseases. You have to do something about them, but nobody wants to talk about them. That's a bit better now that people will discuss these things. But, um, 10, 12 years ago, nobody was interested in talking about fakes. So I persuaded them that, um, I could get their fakes offline and they were of course delighted because nobody wants fakes that are in the toy industry, the baby industry, to be sold. So I got them offline and thought, well, actually I'm going to see if this is, could be a business. So I bootstrapped it for a couple of years, taking fakes offline for people, um, who were in the industry, most of whom I knew, but then we were recommended to other people, but it was totally bootstrapped. Got a wee bit of tech involved from an amazing guy that I met from Shetland. We met him at MIT when I went out over there and then raised some money. Ended up raising 4 million. Built the technology, built the team or built the team who built the technology. I can't take any credit for the technology. And now we are a global, global business working with global brands, fighting fakes online and all other online threats. So we monitor, um, marketplaces, social media, um, search engines, NFTs, ads and, um, we identify products and sellers which are infringing and, um, we take them offline with a, ah, 98% success rate.

Speaker A: Wow, you are, I'm not even going to be polite here. You are a badass. Like, literally. That is so amazing to hear that you were like, nope, I am m going to come to your office, I'm going to sit here until I get this sorted and take action. Oh, wow. Like, absolutely. Love, love hearing that. That's incredible, Rachel.

Speaker C: I don't know how it did it. I mean, looking back on it, it seems absolutely nuts and even more nuts to be, uh, you know, a non, non technical person. I think I could build a tech company. I mean, what was I on? But anyway, there we are.

Speaker A: There we are. There we are.

Speaker C: There we are.

Speaker A: Oh, that is so great. And, you know, I think it's just hearing all of that, it's something I've never even thought of before. You know, the fakes in the world, because you kind of see them when you are on holiday sometimes. The fake bags being sol of things. And I've never thought of it like what you said earlier. Uh, if that's a fake product, it's a baby product. You know, the repercussions of that, all these kind of things. It's incredible.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's, I mean, it's, it's really extraordinary. It's not a victimless crime. And I think that that's something that people don't understand. I mean, I didn't know that before it happened to me. I didn't know that. Fakes are frequently made by children. They're made in appalling conditions that, you know, they're made out of, um, you know, made out of materials that you just wouldn't want anywhere near you. Whether it's on your face or whether it's, you know, a fake airbag for your car. You just don't want anything to do with these things. And then the other issue is that counterfeiting is now the second biggest source of criminal income in the world. So when you see somebody buying, you know, say somebody's got a child has a prepaid dinner card, you know, because kids are using cards, buying online, things online at the age of eight now going online, buying a fake Hollister T shirt that they got linked through social media. They don't realize that that Hollister T shirt of Jumper ever, it was, was made by somebody who's younger than them. It's made out of fabrics which they don't want next to their skin is going to wash twice and fall apart. But most importantly, the person who sold it to them is, you know, doing drugs around the corner. I mean, there is a, there's a, you know, there's a proven link between serious organized crime and counterfeiting. And that's what we need to be raising awareness of, uh, along with the fact that actually counterfeits can really damage you forever.

Speaker A: And on that, like, discussion point of rent around ip, you know, you said that at the very beginning you had done that work for ip. Um, but what are those important aspects that we could share with founders today about IP that you would love to share with them.

Speaker C: So I think the thing about intellectual property is that it comes in different. You know, there's different sorts of intellectual property obviously. So most people know about trademarks. So that's, you know, kind of names, brand names, company names, that kind of thing. So there's trademarks, design rights. So if you, if you're making a product then you may have design rights and the design rights um, protect what it looks like but not what it does. And then there's patents which are much more complicated and they have to be really, really novel. And if you're going to license your product then frequently patents are something that you would be interested in filing but they can be very expensive. Uh, and then there's copyright which would protect images and words and then you've got things like know how and trade secrets and all the rest of it which aren't anything, which are publicly recognized but you yourself keep, you know, to yourself but, and they're worth something within your business. And I think that it's really important that when you're setting up a business that you identify, you know, where the intellectual property is. And Scottish Enterprise has got a great um, department where you can actually, for anybody who's in Scotland who's listening to this, um, should go and see them and they're really helpful at actually helping you identify what the IP is within your company and what should be protected. And then the Intellectual Property office will actually fund audits for you to analyze what's in your business um, IP wise which are really valuable. And I think sometimes people go to market really quickly, particularly with products that they haven't protected properly which makes it easy for um, people to rip them off, which is really grim. But increasingly since COVID we've seen not just issues with fake products and fake and sellers selling fake products that we wanted, which is kind of how what I was doing when I started, you know, taking fake products offline. But actually fake websites and fake domains and even professional services firms are now having issues with this kind of thing as well. So. So what over the 10 years we've gone from really all being about a fake product and fake um, fake listings and sell and sellers. It's more, you know, much more about all these other things Now. Impersonation and NFTs, domains and websites and search engines and all the rest of it. So it has really changed.

Speaker A: It's interesting that I've having this conversation just in a world now with AI as well and just how crazy things are with even looking at is that genuine or is that AI? And it just feels like that's everywhere right now. The fakeness of what you see is not always what you get. I mean, it's very relevant. Um, but thank you so much for sharing all of that, and we'd love to zone back in on you for a second if you can just share us a little bit about your experience as a founder, because that sounds like a really interesting journey that you went on from the very beginning of having that product and then creating Snapdragon. And I'm sure along the way, you know, I can only. As you said, it was, you know, the bottom of your world fell out. It just felt, you know, incredible that you were having to. In a bad way that you're having to deal with this counterfeit issue. But, um, you know, what has this been like for you personally, over all the entire experience? The good, the bad, the ugly, whatever it is?

Speaker C: Well, you know, always, you know, there's always wins and there's always. There's always kind of bad days. And. And, you know, the wins are things like, you know, having a fantastic team and people who are. Are loyal and will, you know, are totally with you all the way and actually being able to take, um, so many links and products offline. So, you know, preventing the sale of billions of dollars worth of product, you know, every year is. Is completely crucial. So those are the kind of wins, and the low points are things like, well, Covid was hide. We lost 30% of our clients in about three days. And, uh, you know, I had a team of 24 people to try and kind of keep motivated and give them all something to do. So, you know, those sorts of things are really tough. Raising money is tricky. Um, I mean, I noticed on one of your other podcasts, somebody was talking about only 1% of people get VC funding. Well, actually, when you think about the percentage of women that get funding, it's only 2% globally.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So to raise 4 million, um, I mean, if I'd thought about it, I would never have started. But anyway, there we are. So, um, yeah, raising money is, you know, sometimes more of a challenge than others. I was very lucky beginning. And, um, we brought in a really good partner, Mercia, who are still with us actually. They're a VC firm and they've supported us right through, which has just been really incredibly helpful. Um, but, you know, you meet, you kiss a lot of frogs along the way. It would be one way of putting it, probably. Um, and just keeping ahead of the fraud. I mean, I guess that's the biggest low point when you find that there's another new fraudulent thing that people are doing that you need to be proactive in identifying, um, and you know keep and keeping up with all the different ways that fraudulent are selling and ripping people off. Because it's just really important that we stop all these things.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's like that constant challenge that you have almost just staying on top of uh, everything that changes constantly. And it's yeah, as I said with AI like my gosh, it almost feels

Speaker C: impossible and on top of it isn't good enough. You have to be two steps ahead. You know, you have to, you have to be thinking what are people going to be doing next? You know, this is what's currently happening or where are the new marketplaces popping up or what's the new link that's coming through social media and how's it going to be hidden and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: So um, I want to switch tracks a little bit now, ah, just to you know, something that we spoke about separately before and I think it's a really important thing that we could share with you, everyone listening, especially anyone that's running a business, a founder or um, just a leader that can take away from this because we talked about retaining great employees and when you're at that very early stage of a business and you maybe can't give them the biggest salary in the world or uh, in the equity or whatever it may be, but you want to retain that those amazing people within your organization who really make the difference, how would you advise to kind of make that work? And when you are early stage, so

Speaker C: I uh, think it's really important to find the best people that you possibly can as early as you can and as a non technical founder that for me that was really, really crucial and also to have as diverse a team as possible because diversity brings solutions to different problems. That just means you're not looking at things the same way. But the things that really worked for me was part time people, big, big win because there were experts that I just couldn't afford on a full time basis but they were willing to work part time. Of course now there's a whole fractional thing think, which is fantastic but frequently women that wanted to come back to work who had had very senior roles, um, uh, you know, were just building their confidence again to go back into a senior role that had a bit of time that could help me on a part time basis. So that was totally fantastic. But the other thing for me that worked really well Was, uh, because we had an international team. We needed an international team for language skills. So we speak nearly, um, 20 languages in the team, which is crucial because, you know, counterfeiting is an international, an international problem and you want to be able to talk to the platforms and the relative language. And also our clients are international. But my early team, I, um, really felt strongly that within their contracts I would give them a return ticket home every year. And I felt this was so important because having been myself working overseas at one point and not having a lot of money and when the chips were down it was the ticket home that went. And uh, I just always felt it would be so nice to have that money ring fenced. Not to be part of my salary, you know, not to be part of my salary when it was me. So I decided that this was something that I would offer the international team in the early days, which is what we did. And it paid itself back in spades. It was just, I couldn't give them the extra 10k and it was cheaper for a 1500 pound ticket or whatever it was. But they knew that uh, at that point within the year when they wanted to go home, that was theirs and I think that made a huge difference. And then of course they could work from wherever they were for several weeks as well as having a bit of a holiday. So that for me was a big win early, uh, on and just something which made sense because it happened to me and I thought, well, let's take all the good things that you've learned in your long life to date and try, um, and replicate them.

Speaker A: I think that's wonderful because it's meaningful. It means that you've been in tune with someone's real needs. Because I think when it comes down to why people stay in a job, money is not actually the reason. It is literally how I feel working for this person and to do something like that for them is connected to their personal lives and you know, helping them being able to go home and see their family I think is a wonderful thing. So, yeah, that's a great tip, Rachel.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a good, I mean it works. And also, you know, we're a mission driven business as well. Snapdragon, you know, we're fighting the bad guys, we're taking fakes offline. So people like that and so we've attracted people based on that, which is, which is really fantastic. We've got an amazing team. Absolutely amazing.

Speaker A: So let's talk about the support that you've had in Scotland. So as we always do in the broad tech podcast is we're promoting amazing founders we have here in Scotland and, and how great it is to build a company from here. So let's just share, if anything you can share around that experience or any um, places you went to for help that you'd recommend.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, life was a little different um, when I started Snapdragon, which would be now, Well, I suppose 12 years ago with two years of bootstrapping. So I was really lucky and I went to mit, um, on a project that was funded by Scottish Enterprise. And that was absolutely excellent because it kind of got me out of that I have a baby product mindset into, I'm going to found a tech company mindset. Bonkers but true. So I used the um, disciplined entrepreneurship book when I was going through it to kind of set up um, Snapdragon and I met as I say, um, Barnaby@ uh, MIT and he kind of came in to do the early tech stuff, which was just a godsend really. So that MIT thing was fantastic. And also we got great support from Scottish Enterprise, um, all those years ago, particularly with things like international work. And I was really, I've always been really keen on internationalization as a kind of something for growth, being key to growth. And so we exported from really early days because of course people around the world have counterfeits. I mean counterfeiting affects pretty much every industry and all over the world. So why on earth would we just worry about, you know, British products, uh, and also when folks are making offshore with a global footprint. And that, that really made, you know, that was really important too. So Scottish Enterprise, MIT. I also took part in the Goldman Sachs, um, 10,000 small businesses program which was really brilliant and I would highly recommend that to everybody. And then latterly the things like accelerate her and for us and you know, things like that I have been lucky enough to be involved in. But at that point I was CEO for eight years and took a step back two years ago when I had breast cancer and was diagnosed with breast cancer and we brought in a new CEO. So for the eight years I was there, I was, was very appreciative of all that kind of help. Uh, but I definitely didn't ask for help early enough from people who had been there and done it. So that would be definitely something I would suggest people do first earlier than I did. I think I was just really embarrassed about being a kind of middle aged female founder of a tech company who just didn't really know. Um, and I knew there would be a Point where I wouldn't be able to scale the business. I'd never scaled a business. So being able to take it to a particular stage and pass it on to somebody else, it's difficult, but it's the right thing to do.

Speaker A: And I'm so sorry that you obviously had to go through all of that, Rachel. And then you're trying to run a company and make that decision to then, you know, step back and let someone else take the reins. Like, that's a huge moment for you,

Speaker C: I'm sure, in that it was a bigger moment than I had anticipated, it

Speaker A: has to be said. Yeah. Um, but I really appreciate you sharing all of those insights, um, around the support. I think it's definitely, um, so people really knowing what is out there. And I think there is those communities to support, um, fellow founders. So, you know, you're mentioning, uh, the internationalization there, and I think that that's a really important part of how we're trying to inspire a lot of founders here to just look at that, you know, the world. We have listeners at the moment all over the world. There's been 28 countries that have been, ah, downloading the podcast and engaging and watching. So we have been delighted to see that we're reaching out with just Scotland or the uk. So you, when that internationalization comes up, it's something that we would love to take advice of you to share with fellow founders that are trying to build their companies globally. So what has that been like for you? What learnings have you got to share? Any advice on the Internet? I can't say that word today. Internationalization.

Speaker C: Well, I think life has changed, um, significantly. I mean, if you have a product company now, export is much more difficult than it was. Um, it's really quite tricky. So I feel for people with products because it is still a global market and you should definitely think about it, but life is much more complicated. But for service businesses, internationalization just is sensible. You know, uh, if your product is relevant elsewhere in the world, look elsewhere in the world for clients. It's definitely really important. I mean, when Covid hit the UK and we lost all of that, all, uh, our clients, well, all our clients had shops, so they basically shut down. So was the first thing to do was just to look at another part of the world that hadn't been hit so bad. And we basically pivoted and did some digging in Australia and picked up all sorts of Australian clients who actually were. Because Australia at that point wasn't as badly hit as the uk. Of course, poor Old Melbourne then had a particularly rubbish time but by looking at other markets and then we went to the US so um, we were already exporting those markets anyway. But it's just sometimes it's a sensible thing to do actually to look out with your own market. And because we are lucky enough to have language skills as well, um, then that really helped, you know, lots of clients throughout Europe. Language school, super helpful. Um, around the world actually. So we've got clients on five continents.

Speaker A: Um, it's great that you had those um, employees then that had come from those other countries so that you had that global kind of understanding. Because it's not as if when it comes to the localization it's one marketing campaign might not work. So I think ah, it's important to highlight that even in English speaking countries, you know, we found that um, before is obviously just how those different customers interact with your brand and the different cultural aspects.

Speaker C: No, that's really important. And I think, I mean we don't do a lot of marketing to be perfectly honest. I mean most of our clients come to us by referral, um, which is, you know, amazing or people that we meet and you know, people buy people so they, you know, they get, they get the story and they, and they understand that. Actually we completely know what it's like to go through the hell, you know, when you have counterfeits. And the one thing I would say is if you are going into new markets, think about your IP before you do so, particularly if you're product based. So that's one thing to really note. Um, but even if you aren't product based, it's a good idea to have your trademark at least filed in a country before you go into it. Uh, so don't forget about your IP as you grow. And that's one of the things that we've been really helpful, been very helpful for our clients as they have grown actually. Because if we're looking after key markets for them, you know, when somebody comes to us and says, oh, we've got a counterfeit, so we've got a huge counterfeit issue. And I would never say, oh, uh, I can clear the world of counterfeits in day one for you because you just can't. So you have to say to the client, well, what's your biggest priority? What's your most profitable product? What's your most profitable territory? And then so we would start there and clear up there. But then by keeping an eye on what's going on in other territories that they may wish to go into we can say to them, well, actually there's a, you know, there's a fraudulent product in Indonesia, for example, so that might be a really good market for you, but as you haven't got any IP there, fire your IP first and then we can take the fraudulent product off the market and then you'll go in and, you know, and can grow. So IP is really important from that point of view. And the internationalization then gives. Internationalization, I can't say it now either gives you the growth.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much, Rachel. I think that's um, you know, something really valuable for all of our listeners just to understand that aspect and to know straight off the bat, ip, you know, that has to be front of mind. So, you know, we want to talk to you a little bit about your work with smartworks, you know, because what we've um, we have been very passionate about showcasing this amazing women that we have here, like yourself, that are building amazing products and have done so many great things. And the SmartWorks initiative sounds fantastic. First of all, can you tell us a little bit about it and how you've become involved?

Speaker C: Yeah, of course. So smartworks is a UK charity which empowers, um, unemployed women into the workplace. We'll help anybody, any woman who is unemployed or on a zero hours contract, through coaching, confidence and clothes, all for free. So people come to us for an hour's coaching to help them with their CVS and then when they find that they get an interview, then they come to us for interview coaching and a dressing appointment where they're given, uh, an interview outfit, everything from kind of shoes and underwear and bags and outer coats up, all for free, and they go off to their interview feeling infinitely more confident. So 98% of people who we see feel more confident after a session and 70% of people we see have a job within a month. Now I think that is quite some statistic. Last year we saw 10,000 women across the UK, 11 centres in eight cities and 1300 women between Edinburgh and Glasgow. And it's just the most incredible organization. I came across it because when my stepmother died, she left her wardrobe to smartworks. So we get that the clothes that we give our clients are donated from the high street. And also pre loved really nice clothes that um, you know, people have in their wardrobes that they no longer want. People like Hobbs, Victoria Beckham, Marks and Spencers, um, Reese donate clothes. Um, and the bags that we get are fantastic. We've just had a lovely bag donation from Kathleen Nicholl, who runs a Um, a bag company in Perth, in Perthshire. And they're just gorgeous. And giving these client, giving clients this, the confidence in the clothes, you know, it's just incredible. And then you get an email on a Friday saying she got the job and it's just the best feeling in the world.

Speaker A: So that's so wonderful.

Speaker C: But they, clients come to us from all, all, all sources. We have 152 referral partners in Scotland. People come through the prison service, from the care service, from universities, some job centers, all sorts of networks, and everybody is welcome.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, hopefully people listening right now will be reaching out to you to support smartworks, because that sounds like an incredible initiative and something that we're definitely passionate about, getting more women to be inspired into entrepreneurship. But just to have women have that confidence, to know they can go and get those jobs, have that support system, isn't incredible.

Speaker C: Just to get people into work, just to give them a spring in their step again. Because, you know, being unemployed is grim. You know, it's absolutely grim. And the service is delivered by volunteers. So we've got 120 volunteers in Scotland and we deliver the coaching and the, and the dressing service. And most of us have had a period of being unemployed. So we know what it's like, you know, and it is grim and you do lose your confidence. And most people, the majority of people who we see have applied for about 38 jobs before they see us. I mean, that's just ghastly. We're particularly keen to help young women because young women between 17 and 24 are having a particularly grim time at the moment. And they went through a particularly grim time over Covid. So let's get the young women, you know, confidence and jobs and help them.

Speaker A: Well, sign me up as a volunteer.

Speaker C: Fantastic. No, great. Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You'll chat about that after. I would love to help. Yeah, 100. I think that sounds incredible. So, so we do definitely want to speak, uh, to the women listening right now who might be sitting on an idea, uh, and they're considering going into entrepreneurship. And there's always this barrier to actually doing it, to jumping in and making it happen compared to just sitting with that idea. So what advice would you have for any woman that may be listening right now? They have always wanted to be a founder. They've wanted to start this business idea, but they haven't got there yet. What advice would you give them?

Speaker C: Well, I think the most important thing is being able to sell whatever your idea is that people will pay money for it and you Know, bartering is all very well in the early stages, but they really need to set, really need to be able to sell it. So I think that's really crucial. I see lots of people who are running around worrying about raising money and actually I think you'd be much better off just making sure that people are going to buy what you're doing. So I think that's the first thing. I think looking for advice and guidance and deciding which bits to take is also key because you'll be given lots of advice and lots of guidance, but it isn't necessarily always the right thing. And if you're in a field which is kind of gray in terms of it being kind of all about systems, I would say find your orange, find your usp, know what your USP is so that you can articulate it really well so it's clear what you're trying to do and how you're going to achieve it. And if you get to raising investment, make sure your data room is absolutely fantastic because if you've got a really good data room, then it will be much, much easier to raise money. But there are many ways of starting a business without raising money and ideally selling what you've got is the best way to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely understanding those customers if there is that, that gap and if there's that need for it, you know, and truly understanding that problem that you can solve. Um, that's where our friends at User Testing can come in handy that are sponsoring today's episode. Excellent.

Speaker C: Cheers to Userte.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Rachel. And um, so I think, ah, it's great to share that for just um, inspire women into entrepreneurship. But I also would love to address a lot of our early stage founders because we have a big audience of those that do follow the broad tech podcast that are at the very early stage of their founder journey. So is there anything that you wish you'd known back in the day that you know now that you could impart

Speaker C: that wisdom so much? I suppose. I mean, I think protect your ip. So recognize and protect your ip. Right? Absolutely. Definitely there. I think finding people who might be able to be part of an advisory board can be really helpful because they can help, um, you to be accountable for what you're trying to achieve. And good people on an advisory board aren't necessarily a board board, but they're there just as professionals who aren't chums to actually guide you and make sensible suggestions. And particularly if they're in the space that you want to go into, then that is Particular really helpful practical things like if you can keep a separate account for vat that is useful because if you suddenly find yourself having to pay a VAT bill and you've spent it all on something else and you then hmrc, HM won't be terribly chuffed with you. So that's just a little kind of, you know, extra. But do keep that on the side if you can. Using part time people as I've talked about before, particularly um, folks that want to come back into the work, into the workplace. Definitely a good, good idea. Fractional people, um, diverse. Build as diverse a team as you possibly can because that will help you find different. So all, all those kind of things but give it a go. But know you can sell what you're going to do. I mean I think that is just so important. I think we've fallen in, we have fallen into a bit of a must, uh, raise money, must raise money mindset and actually must raise money should be after can we sell? How are we going to make money? And raising money might not be the way to do it. You know, could you borrow or you know, get a loan or a grant before you actually raise money? Because you need to remember that when you're raising money you need to find a partner that you will TR and who will be there for the good times and the bad times. And you need to see the value in what they're doing. And of course you're swapping some of your business for the investment. So investment isn't necessarily the be all and end all for everybody at all. So even early stage, many people when they're early stage, they're rushing around thinking about this far too early.

Speaker A: Yeah. And good calling the VAT bill. Um, that is definitely something I've experienced as well. And be like, wow, that's not fun when you're not prepared.

Speaker C: No, no, it's not fun. It's not fun and, and it's just quite helpful to think, right, well there's the vat. I'm just going to put it in my account and then I'll.

Speaker A: I think those practical tips are so important because some of the most basic things around starting a limited company or knowing exactly what insurance is or some of the data aspects and IP and you know, some of it. So it's fundamental but it can be easily forgotten when you're so excited.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you're thinking, I've got this great product and I'm just running hell for leather to market.

Speaker C: So yeah, I think that's true and I think when you're choosing whether it's a member of your team or whether it's an investor or a, you know, banker or just somebody key giving them what I call the 2am treatment. So if you think that you, you're going to be up 2am doing a spreadsheet for this person or um, something for them because they've asked for it obviously, and this is probably an investor situation and it makes you cross, then that's probably, they're probably not the one for you. But if you think, actually that's fine, you know, I'll send it in and it'll all be fine, then that's good. So rely on your gut with regards to people that you're going to work with and people that you're going to bring in and if, you know, whether whatever member of the team or an investor but, you know, run scenarios through your head thinking, you know, if times are tough, are they going to be there beside me or are they going to be. Cheerio.

Speaker A: No, I love that. Thank you so much, Rachel. So, just a couple more questions for you. You, something we always ask all our guests is to give a shout out to someone else, uh, or another company elsewhere in the world to lift us out of just Scotland, you know, connecting with um, founders or companies, you know, really quite diverse parts of, of uh, of the globe. So is there anyone that you would like to give your shout out to?

Speaker C: I thought long and hard about this and I'm, I'm afraid I'm going off piste and I'm going to say the organ, the Kiva organization, which loans to people around the world to set businesses up, up and I think that uh, when one is trying to do a startup, you know, anywhere you get so immersed in all the issues that you are in that you forget about other things that people are doing elsewhere in the world. And Kiva takes things like a loan for £30 to help somebody in Guatemala to set up a jewelry business. And it is, there are thousands of projects which you can help. But you will see people around the world, the great majority of them are women trying to run businesses just to pay the bills and to feed their families. And it's really humbling and you can put in as little as 30 quid, but it will help. You know, if lots of people put in 30 quids, then this person gets her £900 to do whatever it is she's trying to do. And I know it's not a tech business and I know it's not, you know, in the developed world But I think it's a level, it's a real leveler on actually look what people are having to deal with elsewhere in the world and they need 30 quid to do it. And you know, I could help with that. That.

Speaker A: I love that. Uh, that's amazing. No, thank you so much. And last one, Ah, for you, Rachel, is just one word that you could describe your founder journey.

Speaker C: Um, again, something I've thought long and hard about and I've decided that the word is privilege.

Speaker A: Privilege.

Speaker C: It has been a privilege to start and run, um, businesses. Well, particularly, particularly Snapdragon, um, for the last, Well, I ran it for eight years but you know, still the founder and top seat before that and great circle before that. Um, it's a privilege to work with the people that we've worked with. It's a privilege to keep the companies, um, on track, taking the fakes offline or the domains down or the impersonation down or whatever it is. And um, it's a privilege to have the trust of the team, the investors, whatever else, loads of ups and downs. But I think overall that is my work privilege.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the Broadtech podcast, Rachel. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. It's been great fun.

Speaker A: Thank you and thank you to our sponsors, user testing. We really appreciate all our friends there and thank you for you for watching and listening. We really appreciate our audience. Uh, please do share this episode with someone that you might think will enjoy it. Uh, please share, engage, follow us on social media. Subscribe to the YouTube. Just help. We'd be massively grateful for any support. Thank you to everyone watching and listening and thank you again to Rachel. We really appreciate it. Thanks everyone.

Speaker C: No problem. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you. Bye bye.